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00:10Die White House is celebrating a pair of major Supreme Court victories
00:14that expand the president's power on immigration.
00:18And it clears the way for him to continue his crackdown.
00:21The first decision allows the Trump administration
00:23to end temporary protected status for foreign nationals
00:27from countries like Haiti or Syria.
00:30Millions may soon be eligible for deportation,
00:32and hundreds of thousands could lose their work authorization
00:35they receive under the program,
00:37which was meant to help people fleeing war or disaster in their home country.
00:41Now, separately, the justices rule that the White House
00:44can revive a controversial policy that allows officials
00:47to block asylum seekers entering the U.S. southern border.
00:50The decision drew a scathing dissent from Justice Sonia Sotomayor,
00:53who warned more people will die as a result.
00:57The policy, began under President Obama, was ended by President Biden,
01:01and now, with its return under Trump 2.0,
01:04here's how the White House's Deputy Chief of Staff, Stephen Miller, sums it up.
01:10I think the most important point is that this administration,
01:13on the asylum point, is we've implemented international agreements all over the world
01:17to take in our asylum seekers.
01:19So America's doors are closed fully to asylum seekers.
01:25That statement, I think, encapsulates exactly how Stephen Miller sees the world,
01:30what he has wanted to do for a long time.
01:33But at the same time, asylum still is in the law, right?
01:36Like, it is still a legal process.
01:39And the court basically has given the Trump administration carte blanche
01:42to effectively shut it down, as Stephen Miller said.
01:45Right, right, right.
01:46You know, when we look at these pair of cases,
01:49they're being presented, you know, in the media as well,
01:51as a victory for the Trump administration.
01:53For me, it's not so much a victory for Trump or for this administration.
01:57It's a victory for executive power.
02:00And that's something that should make a lot of people nervous,
02:02because the administration has basically been given permission from the highest court
02:07to dismantle critical parts of our immigration system.
02:11But Congress set up our asylum process.
02:14Congress, bipartisan Congress, designed TPS.
02:17In my view, the Supreme Court is basically absolving, abdicating itself
02:22of its responsibilities under the Constitution
02:24to provide checks and balances to the other branches of government.
02:28They're acting as though there are only two branches of government.
02:31And so when we talk about the administration,
02:34this administration wanting to end these programs,
02:36it's very problematic in terms of the consequences.
02:39But just from a legal framework, it is quite problematic,
02:43because the administration admits that it did not follow the processes to end TPS.
02:49And with the asylum case, it's very questionable that the Supreme Court even took this case,
02:55because those proceedings are not metering the turnbacks.
02:59That is not happening right now.
03:01So it's, in a sense, a theoretical argument.
03:04But this speaks to the incredible deference that this court has given to the Trump administration on immigration.
03:10Yeah, on immigration and on a lot of other things.
03:14For the Haitians, however, this means that, you know, hundreds of thousands of them,
03:21if you take the entire pool of Haitians and Syrians together,
03:24it could be a million people are affected by this,
03:27could be stripped of their protective status, stripped of their work permits,
03:31and told to go home.
03:32And interestingly, here's what Mike DeWine, the governor of Ohio, said.
03:37He says,
03:37the policy to remove these individuals from this country is a mistake.
03:41This also means that while these Haitians were working and contributing to our country,
03:46our community, and economy yesterday,
03:48today it is now illegal to employ them.
03:51So he is sounding the alarm.
03:53And this is, by the way, the place.
03:54He calls out Springfield, Ohio.
03:57This is the place where J.D. Vance lied about Haitians eating cats and dogs.
04:01And he says they are a part of, 10,000 of them,
04:04they're a part of this community now.
04:05They're taking on jobs.
04:07They're building the economy.
04:08And he just says it's the wrong policy.
04:11Yeah, it is.
04:12And so the court's decision is actually really good for Haiti as a country,
04:16as a sovereign nation,
04:17because the first word in TPS is temporary.
04:20It's always supposed to be temporary.
04:21And specifically in regards to the Haitians who have come here,
04:24the first batch came, I think, in 2010 after the earthquake in Haiti.
04:27It's been 16 years since the earthquake.
04:29So that's not temporary.
04:31And at what point, by American standards,
04:34are we going to decide that Haiti is livable again?
04:37When's that day coming?
04:38Is that coming in six months?
04:40Is that coming in a year?
04:41Probably not anytime soon.
04:42And one thing that doesn't get talked about is some of these TPS recipients,
04:45not all but some,
04:47have been doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers who left Haiti.
04:51How is Haiti as a nation supposed to rebuild itself
04:54when we've brain-drained a lot of their talent
04:57and planted them in Springfield, Ohio,
04:59where that's not fair to the residents of Springfield, Ohio, either.
05:01And as a nation, we are legally obligated to our own citizens
05:04before we're obligated to anybody else.
05:07Springfield, Ohio, notice how the migrants are never,
05:09they're never brought to Nantucket.
05:10They're never brought to Beverly Hills.
05:12They're never brought to Martha's Vineyard.
05:13They're never going to go compete with hedge fund bros
05:16who inherited the job from their dad.
05:17They're always going to be brought to middle America places
05:20like Springfield, Ohio,
05:21where they're going to have to compete with Americans for wages,
05:23depreciate those wages.
05:25I'm sure, does anybody at this table,
05:26have you heard the name Aiden Clark, an 11-year-old boy?
05:30No, you guys don't know his name?
05:31Here we go again.
05:3211-year-old boy killed by a Haitian immigrant under TPS
05:35with no American driver's license
05:37who rammed his car into a bus,
05:39killed 11-year-old Aiden,
05:41and injured 20 schoolchildren.
05:42Who is this good for?
05:43Not the Haitians, not the American people.
05:45I love how they cherry-pick isolated cases
05:47and forget the fact that people who are immigrants
05:49actually commit fewer crimes
05:51than people who are residents in this country.
05:52But getting back to the point
05:53of this discussion about Haiti,
05:55first of all, I'm so glad
05:56that you're concerned about Haiti right now.
05:59I am.
05:59It's a sovereign nation.
05:59And an alleged brain drain.
06:01But the U.S. State Department says...
06:03Would you let me speak?
06:03Because I'll let you speak.
06:04The U.S. State Department says
06:05that it's actually not safe for Americans
06:08to travel to Haiti right now.
06:09So you want to dump these people into our country
06:11where even our own State Department
06:14and the Trump administration says it's not safe.
06:16But the larger problem is that this is a country
06:18that is now governed by a racist foreign policy
06:21and a racist immigration policy.
06:23At the same time, Stephen Miller is out here
06:25claiming that we don't allow anybody
06:27into this country for asylum anymore.
06:29and the doors are closed.
06:30We're allowing white South Africans
06:32to come to this country.
06:33Those are the only people who can come to this country right now,
06:35white South Africans.
06:36But 350,000 Haitian Americans who are black
06:39can't stay here, even though they have been here,
06:42many of them for many years.
06:44They can't stay here.
06:45They're tax-paying people.
06:46They are law-abiding people.
06:48They are people who actually do jobs and create jobs.
06:51They're actually people who are doing jobs
06:53that some Americans don't want to do.
06:54No, they want the jobs.
06:55They just don't want to do it for that wage.
06:57They don't want to do it for that wage.
06:58Well, it's in a hotel, Caroline.
06:59And big business, the health care industry
07:00loves to keep them here.
07:02Caroline, Caroline, I love the way you...
07:02It's modern slave labor.
07:04Caroline, Caroline, Caroline, you're not the only person
07:06at the table.
07:06Just a second.
07:07Just a second.
07:08I will say, he did let you finish your entire thought,
07:11so just let him finish his, please.
07:13So I think the larger problem here is that
07:16we have an administration that is changing
07:18not only foreign policy, immigration policy,
07:21but changing the Republican Party.
07:23What Rawls said a moment ago is really important.
07:25This is a bipartisan bill.
07:27This is a bipartisan legislation,
07:29the Immigration Act of 1990,
07:31signed by President George H.W. Bush
07:34at the time when Republicans and Democrats
07:36used to agree that it was okay,
07:37that America actually believed in the principles
07:39of the Statue of Liberty,
07:40that we actually wanted to have people come here
07:42and seek asylum, or at least come here
07:44and to be able to live here
07:46if they knew that their conditions were not good
07:48in their own countries.
07:49Well, first of all, I just want to note
07:51that to your point, the State Department
07:53has a level four warning for Haiti, Syria, and Somalia.
07:57It says, do not travel for U.S. citizens,
07:59and if you do travel, prepare a will.
08:02So I think that tells you kind of everything
08:04you need to know about how they feel the situation is.
08:07But on the issue of racism,
08:08that came up in the court decision,
08:11and Samuel Alito, in the majority opinion,
08:13said none of the cited statements
08:16by either the president or the secretary
08:18were overtly racist,
08:20and in substance all expressed policy views
08:24that could rest on race-neutral justifications.
08:27Elena Kagan, you know, she hit back and said,
08:32the evidence they have offered
08:34includes statements by the president
08:36so repellent and racially infected
08:38that the majority declines to put them in print.
08:41These statements fairly shout
08:42in their racial undertones and overtones alike
08:45that race entered into the president's resolve
08:48to remove Haitians from this country.
08:50Can I just mention some of those comments?
08:51When he called Haitians, or Haiti,
08:54a shithole country...
08:55Thank you, thank you.
08:55...that, I mean, I think that's what a lot of people...
08:58That's one of the many statements
08:59that make a lot of people believe
09:01that there is racial animus at play here.
09:03Well, I mean, you're making it about race,
09:05Keith's making it about race.
09:06That was precisely the argument
09:07that the Supreme Court said was not the proper one.
09:10Yes, the legislation for TPS
09:12was a bipartisan bill from 40 years ago,
09:14but it gave the Secretary of Homeland Security
09:16extreme policy oversight
09:18in determining who gets TPS or who loses it.
09:21In this case, we've litigated this.
09:23We had an election, right?
09:23President Trump, you pointed out,
09:25he said some pretty mean things.
09:27We litigated this debate during the election,
09:29and the American people chose
09:30to have a more restrictive anti-immigration policy.
09:33That's just the fact.
09:34The American public put Donald Trump in place.
09:36He is now implementing policies
09:38that you may not agree with,
09:39but the American people elected.
09:40And it's not just Haiti.
09:41So we keep focusing on this racial thing.
09:43It's about all 13 countries
09:45that have temporary protective status
09:47have recently come up for renewal
09:49that he has pushed to withdraw or deny.
09:52The reason why we focus on Haiti, though,
09:54is because Haiti is the issue
09:56that involves race most directly.
09:58It's an equal protection issue
09:59under the 14th Amendment of the Constitution.
10:01He said, he called,
10:02he actually said these countries,
10:03he said Haiti's a shithole country.
10:05He said they're poisoning the blood of this country.
10:07He said they're bringing AIDS to this country.
10:09He accused Haitian immigrants
10:10of eating people's pets and dogs.
10:14That's what Donald Trump said then.
10:16I'm citing what the Supreme Court decided.
10:18That's what your president,
10:18the Supreme Court decided that your argument
10:20was moved.
10:21And the Supreme Court was wrong.
10:22There were three dissenting members
10:23who said otherwise.
10:24The TPS statute gave the Secretary of Homeland Security
10:25the authority to do this.
10:27You may not like the results of the election.
10:29I happen to have voted for Donald Trump.
10:30So you're saying the voters,
10:31the voters voted for a racist foreign policy immigration?
10:35What majority white country
10:37was up for a TPS renewal recently
10:39that he didn't move this country?
10:40Trump is allowing white South Africans
10:42to come to this country.
10:42That's not up for renewal.
10:43The only people who were allowed
10:44to come to this country know that.
10:45Name a majority white country.
10:46White South Africans.
10:46Name a majority white country
10:47that has TPS,
10:48that has TPS,
10:49that's up for renewal,
10:50that the Trump administration
10:51did not try to renew.
10:52You have very passionate arguments
10:54around TPS, right?
10:55Both of you at this table,
10:57all of us.
10:58But the thing I think is most important
11:00when we're talking about TPS
11:02is that this case
11:03was not about a definition
11:05of what is temporary,
11:07when is temporary too long.
11:09And it wasn't a case,
11:10it was not a case
11:11about whether or not Haitians
11:13are here doing jobs
11:14that Americans don't want.
11:15And Haitians actually,
11:17among our immigrant population,
11:19Haitians have some of the highest
11:20educational attainment
11:22because many people
11:22who have come from Haiti
11:23have left because they are
11:25professional people
11:26with advanced degrees.
11:30The point of TPS
11:34is in the letter of the law
11:35and the spirit of the law
11:36is that it grants
11:37humanitarian relief
11:39to people from these countries
11:41where they would be in danger
11:42if the U.S. government returned.
11:44This is not a question of what,
11:46the Supreme Court
11:47did not even examine the issue.
11:49Does the statute
11:50give an end date
11:52for the renewal?
11:53No, by design.
11:54And the statute says
11:55that the Supreme Court
11:56So the renewal date
11:58from Ukraine
11:58is up in the fall this year.
12:00That is by design.
12:03It's a policy question.
12:04Hold on a second.
12:04Raoul's point is that
12:05TPS is designed
12:07that it can be extended
12:08for as many times
12:09as it wants.
12:11Congress could have put
12:12an end point
12:12as the administration
12:13wants it to be.
12:13And the discretion is given
12:14to the Secretary
12:16of Homeland Security.
12:17I think Raoul's other point
12:19was that they acknowledged
12:21that they didn't follow
12:22the process that's in the law
12:24for actually going through
12:26this renewal process.
12:27So the court basically said
12:28it doesn't really matter.
12:29We're going to defer
12:30to the executive branch
12:31and let them proceed however,
12:33even if it is in defiance of law.
12:34You're correct in the sense
12:35that the statute
12:36does give Homeland Security
12:38Secretary this discretion
12:40to around TPS
12:42when they follow the processes,
12:45which they admit
12:46in the filing
12:46that they did not.
12:48That's what makes this
12:49a really startling decision.
12:51and I know I'm talking
12:52too much.
12:54But I want to say
12:55that that's an important
12:56part of this discussion.
12:57Let me just play
12:59one more thing.
13:00This is Stephen Miller
13:00today talking about
13:02what he thinks
13:03the founding fathers
13:06would have wanted.
13:07Listen.
13:09You know,
13:09when the founding fathers
13:11built this country,
13:12they were keenly aware
13:13of the fact
13:14that their history
13:16as Englishmen
13:18in the colonies,
13:19their history and experience
13:21with enlightenment principles
13:22and values
13:23formed the foundation
13:24of our system of government.
13:26It's simply not the case.
13:27It has never been the case.
13:28To go back to the Haiti example,
13:30that you can just take
13:31three million people
13:32from a failed island,
13:34put them into America,
13:35and overnight
13:36that they're able
13:37to become fully successful,
13:39fully assimilated
13:39American citizens.
13:41That defies everything
13:42we know about how culture works,
13:44how assimilation works,
13:45how nations work.
13:48So, Amanda,
13:48I find it extremely rich
13:50for someone like Stephen Miller
13:52to say that,
13:52especially since
13:53his own ancestors
13:55who were Jewish,
13:56who fled persecution,
13:57came to this country
13:58and were thought at the time
14:00to not be capable
14:01of assimilation,
14:02were thought at the time
14:04to not be compatible
14:05with American society,
14:06and they came here
14:08and they assimilated,
14:10and now he's in the White House.
14:12It is the embodiment
14:13of the American dream.
14:14I mean, it's literally engraved
14:15on the Statue of Liberty,
14:16give us your tired,
14:17your poor,
14:17your huddled masses.
14:18Like, this is a place
14:19where you can come,
14:20if you are not safe
14:21where you live,
14:22it is a place
14:22where you can come
14:22and incorporate
14:23and assimilate
14:24and be a true and American.
14:25Can they come stay at your house?
14:26Can they come to your community?
14:27They are in our community.
14:28I live in New York City,
14:29one of the most diverse cities
14:30in the world.
14:31So can they come stay
14:31at your house?
14:32I would welcome them
14:33in my home.
14:33I would welcome them
14:34in my neighborhood.
14:35As many are coming here
14:36through the way...
14:37Could your house handle 10,
14:38even if it doesn't have room for 10?
14:39We should solve
14:40the housing crisis
14:40in New York City
14:41and then I would love
14:42to do that.
14:43But you could just take them now.
14:43Haitians with TPS
14:44are not doing that anymore.
14:45Let me let Amanda finish.
14:47I would just say,
14:47I think it's like
14:48such a devastating way
14:49to go into celebrating
14:50250 years of America
14:51by kicking out the people
14:53who make America great,
14:54who make this country
14:55what it is.
14:56The immigrants who come
14:57and say,
14:57you know what?
14:57I'm going to come
14:58as a doctor,
14:59an engineer.
15:00I'm going to bring my talents
15:01to Springfield, Ohio
15:03and make that a home.
15:04Was the Haitian migrant
15:05who killed 11-year-old
15:07Aiden Clark
15:07making America better
15:08with that action?
15:13Is that making America better?
15:19I don't think that's
15:20my definition
15:20of making America better.
15:22What about all the white people
15:24who commit crimes in this country?
15:25One life matters.
15:26One American life matters.
15:28But you haven't answered the question.
15:29Your comment is just as racist
15:30as Donald Trump's comment.
15:33You can focus on one Haitian person
15:36and use that as a justification
15:38for a racist foreign policy.
15:39It's disgusting.
15:40It's abhorrent.
15:41It's disgusting that an 11-year-old
15:43was killed by a Haitian migrant
15:44who rammed his car into a bus.
15:46That is disgusting.
15:47A shithole country?
15:49He was referencing the government
15:50which treats their people foreign.
15:52It's made of racism.
15:53All right.
15:53We got to just leave it there.
15:55We do have to leave it there.
15:57We want to invite you at home
15:59to join the debate.
16:00You can go to CNN.com slash Abby
16:02and weigh in on this conversation
16:04and all the others in this show.
16:06We'll get to some of your comments
16:07at the end of the show.
16:09But next for us,
16:10Donald Trump's conservative critics
16:12are getting louder and bolder
16:14including a shouting match
16:15and Tucker Carlson is calling Trump
16:18the B-word.
16:19Plus, AOC is defending progressivism
16:22against Democratic critics
16:23as socialists continue to pile up
16:25the winds across the country.
16:27Another special guest
16:28is going to be with us at the table.
16:29We'll be right back.
16:37Tonight, some of the president's
16:39former allies are his critics.
16:42They are getting louder and louder
16:43and it's not holding anything back.
16:45Tucker Carlson campaigned for Trump
16:47just two years ago
16:48and now he's divorcing himself
16:50from the Republican Party entirely.
16:52He's calling Trump weak
16:53and chief among his complaints
16:55is that Trump's war with Iran is wrong.
16:58Carlson took his jabs
17:00one step further today.
17:02Listen to this.
17:04He tried to posture his way out of it.
17:06We're going to eliminate you
17:07and after like the 400th Truth Social,
17:13they reached the same conclusion
17:14that everyone on the globe reached
17:15which this guy's not strong.
17:16He's weak.
17:17Strong people don't brag
17:18about how strong they are.
17:19They just punch you in the face.
17:20There are two types of guys
17:21and you've got to be careful
17:22of the second.
17:22They're the first who are like,
17:23what'd you say?
17:25What'd you say?
17:26Say it again.
17:27You know, push you in the chest.
17:30You don't have to worry about those guys.
17:31And then the guys don't say anything
17:33just knock you cold.
17:35And Trump is very much,
17:37what'd you say?
17:38Shut up.
17:39I don't take you seriously.
17:41No, I'm not being mean,
17:43but like, come on.
17:46Patrick McEnroe joins us
17:48in our fifth seat.
17:50Wow.
17:50How did I get so lucky
17:51to get on this topic?
17:53Okay, so first of all,
17:55Tucker Carlson giving lessons
17:56on toughness is one way
17:58to look at this.
17:59But is he right?
18:02I'm not sure he's right,
18:03but it's good to be loud
18:06and it's good to make a huge statement
18:08wherever you're coming from.
18:10Believe it or not,
18:10I was actually in D.C. this week
18:12meeting with some senators
18:14and some congressmen
18:15about another issue,
18:17college athletics.
18:18But what struck me
18:19was actually the people
18:20behind the scenes in D.C.
18:23And I'm talking about staffers,
18:24I'm talking about interns,
18:25people working for these senators.
18:27They actually want
18:28to get stuff done.
18:29And I actually walked out of there
18:31thinking to myself,
18:32you know,
18:32there's a lot of young,
18:34positive people here
18:35that actually want
18:36to solve some problems.
18:37And, you know,
18:38we all come on,
18:39we come on these shows
18:40and we talk about,
18:41you know,
18:41the people that are loud
18:42and that have an extreme view,
18:44in my view,
18:45an extreme view
18:46of what's really going on.
18:47When behind the scenes,
18:48I think there's actually
18:49a bunch of people
18:49that are really trying
18:50to make things better
18:51and get things done
18:53in a more positive direction.
18:54So is Tucker Carlson right?
18:55I'll leave it to the experts here
18:56and tell me if he's right or wrong.
18:58Well, Trump, I mean,
18:58I think is facing this backlash
19:00from people like Carlson.
19:02But look,
19:03part of it is
19:05if Tucker really doesn't like
19:07this part of Trump,
19:08why did he support him
19:09in the first place?
19:10Because Trump has always
19:11been this person.
19:12To yell and scream
19:14about how tough he is,
19:15and then actually
19:17to pull his punches
19:18as he did with Iran.
19:20So is that really the problem
19:23for Tucker
19:24and for some of the other
19:25conservatives
19:26who are trying to walk out
19:27of the MAGA movement right now?
19:29So the president respects strength.
19:32He doesn't respect people
19:33who are weak
19:34or project weakness.
19:35So I think what Tucker's doing
19:36is just using
19:37the president's same playbook.
19:39I mean,
19:39the president is a trash talker.
19:40He gets out
19:41and uses that same tone
19:42that Tucker uses,
19:43says the same things.
19:44Tucker's just using
19:45that same playbook
19:46because he knows
19:47that's actually
19:47what Trump respects.
19:49He respects people
19:50that are brawlers like that.
19:51I think what's going on
19:53largely in terms of
19:54what's going on
19:55on Capitol Hill
19:55and what Tucker's saying
19:57is they're watching
19:59the king bleed
19:59for the first time
20:01and they smell blood
20:02in the water
20:02and they're taking
20:04advantage of it.
20:04And so you watch
20:05the president's actions
20:06on Capitol Hill
20:07and I think in response
20:08to Tucker's comments
20:08where he kind of
20:09did a show of force
20:10and said,
20:10I'm the boss.
20:11I'm going to tell you
20:12what we're doing
20:13and I get it
20:14because I'd be frustrated
20:15too if I was him.
20:15I mean, first of all,
20:16he did waste
20:17an enormous amount
20:17of political capital
20:18on this war.
20:19Whoever told him
20:20to do it,
20:21totally misguided.
20:22I think the president
20:23should have listened
20:23to people who have
20:24been loyal to him
20:25rather than dismissing them
20:26and banishing them
20:28because what we've learned
20:28is the neocons
20:29will always use you.
20:30They will never have your back.
20:31I thought we learned
20:32that in the first term
20:33of the Trump administration.
20:33I guess we didn't.
20:34But I understand
20:35some of the president's
20:36frustration on Capitol Hill
20:37because it's like
20:37we never have the votes
20:39for the SAVE Act.
20:40We never have the votes
20:40to conform Bill Pulte
20:41but we always have the votes
20:43for $9 billion more
20:43for Ukraine
20:44or $300 billion more
20:46for the war.
20:46And it's like,
20:47come on!
20:48Get real!
20:50I don't know.
20:51I mean, here's the thing.
20:53Republicans want
20:53to win elections.
20:54That's how government works.
20:56And they want to win elections.
20:58They don't act like it.
20:58And if you think,
21:00if they thought
21:00that all of those,
21:01if Bill Pulte
21:02and the SAVE Act
21:04were going to help them
21:05win elections,
21:06don't you think
21:06they would be running
21:08to cast their vote?
21:09I mean, they're not
21:11because it's not
21:12going to help them.
21:13I mean, this is a very,
21:14like, people are doing
21:15what's in their self-interest.
21:17Not only that,
21:18they passed what is honestly
21:19a sort of incredible feat,
21:20which is a bipartisan bill
21:21to advance,
21:22to lower the cost of housing.
21:23And he says,
21:24I'm not going to sign that.
21:25I'm going to wait
21:26until you pass the SAVE Act.
21:27I'm going to actively
21:27suppress the vote
21:28using the SAVE Act.
21:29I don't want to touch
21:30that housing bill.
21:31And he's actively also said,
21:32I don't want housing
21:33to get any cheaper.
21:35That's not how you lead
21:36when you care about
21:37winning the next election,
21:38which I do think
21:39begs the question,
21:40does Trump want to,
21:41well, does Trump
21:41want to win the midterms?
21:42I think he would prefer
21:43to win.
21:44But frankly,
21:45I don't think
21:45he's scared of losing.
21:47Because I think
21:47what he's learned
21:48is he's had everything
21:49thrown at him.
21:50He's been through
21:50the investigations,
21:51he's been through
21:51the subpoenas,
21:52he's been through
21:52the witch hunts,
21:53and he's actually learned
21:53that his political brand
21:55does a lot better
21:55when he's a political
21:56martyr on the ropes.
21:58And I think he's learned
21:59that, like,
22:00it doesn't matter,
22:00you guys are useless anyways,
22:02I'm going to keep the Senate,
22:03lose the House,
22:03and I'll have more time
22:04for the ballroom
22:04and then reflect people.
22:05than getting things done.
22:08Again, that's not really
22:10why the Tuckers
22:11and the Marjorie Taylor Greene's
22:12are upset,
22:14but it is the truth,
22:15and it's one of the reasons
22:16that he's lost support
22:16from some people
22:17on Capitol Hill.
22:18But then again,
22:19you know,
22:19all the talk about
22:20Bill Cassidy
22:23confronting Trump
22:23in this meeting yesterday,
22:25and then he talks to CBS
22:26and he explains
22:27why he,
22:28by the end of the day,
22:30had already backed down
22:32from his criticism
22:32of the president.
22:33Listen.
22:36And I listed those objectives
22:37that I did not see being achieved
22:39and how the kind of endpoint
22:41of the war
22:43kept stretching out
22:44longer and longer.
22:45I need to know
22:46to serve my people
22:47and my state
22:47and my country.
22:48As it turns out,
22:49I got a briefing afterwards.
22:51In one sense,
22:51I actually accomplished
22:52the mission
22:53of what I needed to do.
22:54But you had also said
22:55the American people
22:57need that information.
22:58The American people
22:59aren't getting those
23:00public hearings
23:00and briefings.
23:01So last night
23:03when I asked about that
23:04in my briefing,
23:05they said right now
23:06the negotiations
23:07are delicate
23:08and they could collapse
23:10if they're not nursed along
23:12in the appropriate way.
23:14I can accept that.
23:17If it's that easy,
23:19I mean,
23:20what's the point
23:21of yelling
23:22at the president
23:23in a meeting
23:23if you're going to
23:24just back down
23:24that easily?
23:25Well,
23:25I think we have a term
23:26for that.
23:26It's called beer muscles.
23:28This is a guy
23:29who had a little bit
23:30of an audience.
23:31He had his pals
23:31in the Senate
23:32and he decided
23:33to take out
23:34in his mind
23:35what would be
23:35some revenge.
23:36Remember,
23:36this is someone
23:37who just came
23:37in third place
23:38in a race
23:39where his own
23:40constituents
23:41rejected his version
23:42of the Republican Party.
23:43Republican Louisiana voters
23:45said no to this guy
23:46not just for the leading candidate
23:48but for the person
23:48who came in second place
23:49was even better,
23:50more preferred to him.
23:52But you pointed out
23:53some other people too.
23:53You pointed out
23:54Marjorie Taylor Greene.
23:55You pointed out
23:55Tucker Carlson.
23:56These are people
23:57that have always,
23:59to their critics,
24:00had this fringe place
24:02in the Republican Party.
24:04And for the most part,
24:05the Republicans
24:06are more willing
24:07to cast aside
24:08fringe voices,
24:10people that go
24:10a little bit too extreme.
24:12In the Democratic Party,
24:13they do the opposite.
24:13They elect them
24:14to the highest offices.
24:15Is that true?
24:17Isn't Donald Trump
24:18president in the Republican Party
24:19embrace a great voice?
24:20Donald Trump has some
24:20of the more moderate views
24:22of the Republican Party
24:23but not an arch-conservative.
24:25I think that Republicans
24:28would have been totally fine
24:29with both Tucker Carlson
24:31and Marjorie Taylor Greene
24:32and all of their fringe beliefs
24:34if they had not challenged Trump.
24:39That's the only reason.
24:41It's not because
24:42they're too crazy for them.
24:44Tucker Carlson literally
24:44went 180 degrees
24:46on all his views.
24:46He lost his show on Fox,
24:48lost his audience,
24:49and then did something
24:50or somehow got some new show
24:51and now he has
24:52completely opposite views
24:53of where he once was.
24:54You guys were totally fine
24:55with him a year ago.
24:57You were, okay.
24:58When he was saying
24:59the views that I had,
25:00yes, I'm fine with you.
25:01And it's not just
25:02Tucker Carlson
25:03and Marjorie Taylor Greene.
25:04It's also John Cornyn
25:05who's now an enemy
25:06or a partial enemy.
25:08It's also Tom Tillis.
25:09The voters.
25:10But I'm saying
25:11Trump is making enemies
25:12at the same time
25:13when he needs to be
25:13making friends
25:14and that's why Republicans
25:15in the Senate
25:16are actually pissed off
25:17and why he's not getting
25:18his legislative agenda through.
25:19Why he refuses to participate
25:21and signing a bill.
25:22The MAGA movement
25:23was against these insiders
25:24like Cornyn,
25:26you know, like Cassidy.
25:27And right now
25:28the voters took the side
25:29of Donald Trump.
25:30Donald Trump is toxic
25:31and Republicans are starting
25:32to realize it.
25:32Why are all the Republican voters
25:33voting for Trump candidates
25:34if he's toxic?
25:35It's not true.
25:36South Carolina earlier this week, though.
25:36He won almost every election
25:38he endorsed a candidate
25:39except one in Iowa,
25:40one in South Carolina.
25:41Very few compared
25:42to the hundreds that won.
25:43All right.
25:44Let's leave it there.
25:45Next for us,
25:46deja vu all over again.
25:47That's what AOC thinks
25:48about the hand-wringing
25:49from Democrats
25:50about the new wave
25:51of socialists
25:52who are winning primaries
25:53across the country.
25:54We'll discuss.
25:55That's next.
26:03Tonight,
26:04the Democratic Party
26:05establishment is reeling,
26:06trying and failing
26:07to contend
26:08with the size of its tent
26:10and the limits
26:11of its power
26:11over socialism.
26:12After all of Zoran Mabdani's
26:15endorsements
26:15won their primary challenges,
26:17it put the party leadership
26:19on notice.
26:20But as moderate Democrats
26:22worry the progressive left
26:23will drag down other Democrats,
26:25the face of the movement
26:26is defending it.
26:29I feel like it's deja vu
26:31all over again.
26:33There was so much fear
26:36around that
26:36when I was elected
26:37and none of it
26:39bore out to be true.
26:41Voters vote
26:42for what is happening
26:43in their community
26:44and what's on their ballot.
26:46And I think that
26:48any candidate
26:50of any party
26:50that's running their own race
26:51has the responsibility
26:52to run their race,
26:55say what they believe,
26:56and be as attuned
26:58to their community
26:59and their voters
27:00as possible.
27:01While there may be personalities,
27:03I think what they want
27:03to see is policy.
27:05You know,
27:05are we fighting
27:05to guarantee health care
27:06for every American?
27:07Are we trying
27:08to raise wages?
27:09Are we tackling
27:10on these huge corporations?
27:15She would know.
27:17She unseated an incumbent,
27:19a longtime Democrat,
27:21and she ran
27:22as a Democratic Socialist
27:24as well.
27:24So she knows.
27:26And do you think
27:26that she's right
27:27that this is basically deja vu?
27:28It's her race
27:29but times three.
27:30Well, it's not that she's right.
27:31She's right that this
27:32is similar to her race,
27:33but I can't remember
27:34her ever saying,
27:35you know,
27:36horrible disparaging things
27:37about the American flag,
27:38you know,
27:39being part
27:39or founding an organization
27:40that wants to undermine
27:41the Republic.
27:42This is what some
27:43of the candidates
27:44that won recently are doing.
27:45So they are much more further
27:47towards the radical left
27:48than AOC ever was.
27:50So like at some point
27:51she's going to have
27:51to contend with
27:52what a lot of establishment
27:54Democrats have to come
27:56to face after 10, 20 years.
27:57They eventually become
27:59the establishment
27:59and they get eaten
28:00by this new cadre.
28:02Look, what happened
28:02with the Democratic Party
28:03was this.
28:04For 10 years,
28:05for 8 years,
28:05whatever you want to say,
28:06the party had no message
28:08other than orange man bad.
28:09And Zoran Mamdani,
28:11his allies,
28:12his compatriots,
28:12they filled that void
28:14with a very cogent
28:15series of ideas.
28:16It's called socialism,
28:17right?
28:17And they filled that void
28:19and this is the only
28:20alternative message
28:21to Trump, right,
28:23out there in the ether.
28:24And people did pick up
28:25what they're putting down.
28:26Mamdani's a vote-getter,
28:27no question about that.
28:28But this is essentially
28:29good for the Republican Party
28:31because you have
28:32a lot of Democrats,
28:33even Letitia James,
28:34the attorney general
28:35here in New York,
28:36pushing back
28:37on the socialists.
28:38They're afraid
28:38of the socialists
28:39because they see
28:40the electoral possibility
28:41of what the Republicans
28:42can do.
28:43But isn't he right
28:44in the respect
28:45that Democrats
28:46have been coasting
28:47on Trump bad,
28:49Trump bad
28:49for years and years
28:50and years,
28:50and now there is
28:52an alternative message.
28:53They don't like it.
28:54Some of the establishment
28:55doesn't like it,
28:55but it is a real message.
28:57I agree, full stop.
28:58Like, if the establishment,
28:59Democratic Party,
29:00wants to beat out
29:01the socialists
29:02or the far left,
29:03like, put forward a message.
29:04Tell us what you want to do.
29:05Tell us how you're
29:05going to make housing cheaper,
29:06child care more affordable,
29:07solve the affordability crisis.
29:10Like, where's the vision?
29:11If the establishment
29:12and the old guard
29:13wanted to win,
29:14they should have been organizing.
29:15They should have been communicating.
29:16They should have been doing stuff.
29:18I think, like,
29:18the frustration
29:19that voters have right now
29:20that I think is so visceral
29:22and so deep
29:22is this sense
29:23that our leadership
29:24is not well-suited
29:25for the moment.
29:26They have neither the stomach
29:27nor the skills to fight
29:28in the way that we need,
29:29and they have failed
29:31to deliver on the promise
29:32that, like,
29:32oh, no, just elect us
29:33and we'll get it done
29:34or, no, we know who can win.
29:36They have lost
29:37all sense of credibility
29:38with the Democratic base.
29:39They no longer reflect
29:40the party
29:41as it stands with voters.
29:42What I don't understand
29:43is why the Democrats
29:45are going down
29:46this socialism route
29:47because that's not going to work
29:49in the rest of the country.
29:50It might work
29:50in New York City for a while.
29:51It doesn't need to work
29:51in the rest of the country.
29:52Well, if you want to
29:54win the presidency,
29:55I believe it's going
29:55to have to work.
29:56So progressivism,
29:57when I hear progressivism,
29:58I think something
29:59a lot different
30:00than when I hear socialism.
30:01So when I hear
30:02Democrats saying,
30:03I'm a Democratic socialist,
30:04I'm thinking,
30:05why are you saying that?
30:05The Republicans
30:06do a hell of a job
30:07of identifying
30:08we're going to call
30:09them socialists.
30:10Socialists hate America.
30:12Can I ask you something?
30:13Please.
30:14No disrespect,
30:15you don't have to answer
30:15this question,
30:16but how old are you?
30:17I'll be 60
30:18in a couple weeks.
30:19You look great.
30:19Thank you.
30:20You look wonderful.
30:21Thank you.
30:21But I think the truth
30:22is that for a lot
30:23of younger people,
30:24they don't care
30:25about those labels.
30:26They don't know
30:26the difference.
30:27I mean, they know
30:27the difference,
30:27but it doesn't really
30:28matter to them as much.
30:29And part of the reason
30:30why, look at what's
30:31happening here
30:32in New York City.
30:33Just today,
30:34Zoran Mamdani
30:34just had a rent freeze
30:36that the Rent Control
30:37Board established,
30:38which he promised
30:39he was going to deliver.
30:40He got universal child care
30:42through in the past
30:42six months he's been
30:43in office.
30:44He's got crime down.
30:45He's got the Knicks winning
30:54historic championships.
30:55I like that.
30:55And he balanced
30:56the budget on top of that.
30:57If that's socialism,
30:59then sign me up.
30:59Because those are
31:00things that people want.
31:01He's delivering results
31:02for the people of the city.
31:04So can I just do a protest
31:06by progressive Democrats
31:08against Mamdani's
31:10treatment of the NYPD.
31:11Hold on, sure.
31:12But just to be clear,
31:14I mean, what's
31:15what's going to do
31:15in the United States
31:15fascinating is that
31:16look at this polling
31:17about, let's start
31:18with Mamdani.
31:1848% of New Yorkers
31:21approve of him.
31:23Just 30% disapprove.
31:2423% are unsure.
31:26So he has a net positive
31:27approval rating
31:28in this city right now.
31:29Look at the national picture.
31:31Bernie Sanders
31:32is the most popular
31:34newsmaker,
31:35plus 11% favorability,
31:38followed only by AOC,
31:41who has a negative 4
31:43approval rating.
31:44And then all these other
31:45look at Donald Trump.
31:46He's at literally
31:47the bottom.
31:48I don't know what
31:48Marco Rubio did to the public,
31:50but he is at the bottom
31:51of the list.
31:52But look, my point is,
31:53is that I don't know
31:55about the labels.
31:56I think that maybe people
31:58are too obsessed
31:59with that idea
32:00because it seems like
32:02voters are not taking
32:03that seriously.
32:05They're also not taking
32:05the real controversies.
32:08Like, honestly,
32:09some of these candidates
32:09have said some things.
32:10They've deleted tweets.
32:12They've said some things
32:13that they don't even
32:13want to defend.
32:14But voters are just
32:15ignoring all of those things.
32:17And I feel like that is,
32:18if nothing else,
32:19that is actually
32:20a Donald Trump legacy.
32:21That is...
32:22Donald Trump set the table
32:23for that kind of thing
32:24in our politics.
32:25Well, I think Donald Trump
32:26inherited an...
32:27I always said
32:27Donald Trump's election...
32:29A happy country
32:30does not elect Donald Trump.
32:31An angry country
32:32elects Donald Trump.
32:34And Aristotle said
32:35that you have to have
32:36a thriving middle class
32:37in a democracy
32:38because it moderates
32:39the politics.
32:40and when that middle class
32:41shrinks and when it disappears,
32:43you're going to get
32:43political extremes.
32:44And this country
32:45has produced Donald Trump
32:46to the presidency
32:47and now it's produced
32:48Mom Donnie in New York City
32:49and AOC.
32:51We have a country
32:52where one in three Americans
32:54under 35 live with their parents.
32:57The average age
32:58of the first-time homebuyer
32:59is 40 years old.
33:01The main middle class pathway
33:03to upward mobility
33:04and a better life,
33:05college,
33:06has all but collapsed.
33:07Most people do not believe
33:09that going to college
33:10is the way
33:11to have a better life anymore.
33:13That has been our main
33:14economic highway
33:15for decades.
33:17All of that has collapsed.
33:19A civilized global superpower
33:21would look at all of those statistics
33:22and treat it like
33:23the national emergency
33:24that it is.
33:25Because what's going to happen
33:27is the United States
33:29is going to get revolution
33:29one way or another.
33:30We don't want to see it
33:31go down the path
33:33that Russia, France,
33:34Iran went down
33:35where the young disenfranchised
33:37just revolted.
33:38People want...
33:39You're not going to beat
33:40left-wing populism
33:41with anything other
33:41than right-wing populism.
33:43America already said
33:44that that's what they want.
33:45But the Trump administration
33:46has to double and triple down
33:47on its right-wing populist policies
33:49to blunt the rise.
33:51Otherwise, people are going to look
33:51for left-wing solutions.
33:52All right.
33:53We're going to pause here,
33:54take a quick break,
33:55and we'll be back
33:55on the other side
33:56to finish the conversation.
33:57Thank you.
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