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00:00We have yet to bring up the Channing Frye audio that has taken the internet by storm.
00:05Channing, obviously, alongside RJ, they just got back off the 2016 reunion tour,
00:11which looked really fun.
00:12It did.
00:13On the Road Trippin' podcast, Channing spoke about why he doesn't think LeBron will return to Cleveland.
00:20The smartest thing for him right now is to go back to the Lakers.
00:23And here's why.
00:24Cleveland got too many what-ifs now.
00:26After seeing what I saw, 52-year-old LeBron ain't going to solve them issues.
00:30They got soul issues.
00:32I don't like you issues, and I don't want to be here with you issues.
00:36If this team was like, hey, we just need this position, I'd be like, boom, go to Cleveland.
00:41That doesn't work with this, and this doesn't work with that.
00:44And when your youngest, best player is starting to get all these rumors, that means people are on the phone.
00:49That means people, they think he could get got.
00:51I'm not going to Evan Mobley.
00:53Oh, they ain't getting rid of Evan Mobley.
00:56Evan Mobley's stuck there.
00:57He's stuck there.
00:57Oh, that's what I'm saying.
00:58He's stuck.
00:59So what happened if, let's say, Bron goes there?
01:02How does he fix anything?
01:03He doesn't fix the guys liking each other.
01:06He doesn't fix the continuity of the game.
01:08And you'd think James Harden only operates when he has the ball in the sand most of the time.
01:13I'm not giving the ball to James Harden if LeBron's on the team.
01:15So what makes this the most interesting is what I said before we played it, which is LeBron was just
01:22hanging out with Channing Frye for a certain amount of time that maybe this is informed thinking for Channing Frye.
01:29Yeah, oftentimes it is.
01:31Oftentimes you get a sense from a guy.
01:33Channing knows LeBron really, really well.
01:35They've been in a locker room together.
01:37They've been on a golf course together.
01:39They've been drinking wine together.
01:41So, yeah, when you spend that much time around somebody, you don't always need him to blatantly come out and
01:47say, eh, I don't know about Cleveland.
01:50You know, you can try and read between the lines.
01:53You can try and get a sense from the guy.
01:55You can try and take cues from the guy.
01:58So it does feel a little bit informed from that standpoint.
02:02I also think when he says guys don't like each other, I think that's maybe the most interesting commentary you
02:10could make on where the Cavs are.
02:12And given that Evan Mobley's name is out there, you can kind of guess who one of the guys who
02:18doesn't like the other guys or maybe the guy might be.
02:23You know, there was something interesting that happened during the playoffs.
02:26Kind of flew under the radar.
02:27Evan Mobley's mom, who is pretty active on social media, somebody made a comment below a comment about Donovan Mitchell
02:38and his play style and whether he can be a centerpiece to a championship.
02:43And she liked it.
02:44She liked the comment.
02:47And there have been other times recently.
02:51Even Evan Mobley's trainer came out last year after they lost against the Inanna Pacers.
02:57And they were talking about, you know, making Evan more of a focal point.
03:01And what would it look like if Evan was more of an offensive focal point?
03:05And Donovan took a little bit of a step back.
03:07So it does feel like there's a little bit of wonder within the Mobley camp about should he have a
03:16more expanded role and should Donovan have, you know, the kind of power that he has within an organization.
03:23I think if and listen, I think it's fair for Evan Mobley to feel that way, even if he's also
03:30grateful for the elevation that Donovan Mitchell provided this program.
03:34I think both things, as you mentioned the other day, can be true at the same time.
03:40But what I think is really difficult from where you are is alleviating that tension as constructed.
03:49And I think, and by the way, even if you alleviate it, like back when the Cavs were, when Kyrie
03:56wanted out and LeBron and Tyloo wanted him to stay and Dan chose to deal him.
04:01Right?
04:01I think there's a world in which they let it play out.
04:05LeBron and Tyloo could have gotten Kyrie where he needed to be.
04:09And all of a sudden, maybe he had a better chance to win in 2018.
04:12And maybe that, if LeBron leaves, Kyrie sticks around and yada, yada, yada.
04:17You can kind of follow the bouncing ball.
04:19I do think there's a decent chance with the right leadership.
04:24Nothing that I've heard makes it feel like it needs to be broken up, but I think the downside is
04:31if you get to the trade deadline and Evan Mobley wants out, I don't like waiting until either Donovan or
04:39Evan Mobley gets to a point where they say it's either him or me.
04:42And I don't think we would be that far off if whatever's currently going on continues.
04:47I would also say that there has to be an understanding when it comes to the Cavs that making moves
04:55in the situation that they're in is not as simple as snapping your finger.
05:00It is complicated for this team.
05:03They're in the second apron.
05:05They've got the highest payroll in the NBA.
05:07They paid more luxury tax than anybody.
05:10They've got a lot of high-priced guys.
05:14This team and the situation that they're in, they just aren't set up to make a lot of improvements.
05:22It's going to be hard for them to do that.
05:25And in some cases, it may be painful, the losses that they have, that ultimately lead them to potential improvements
05:33as well.
05:34I think it's fair if at this point Evan says, I know the moves you've made to get Donovan better.
05:40Where are the moves to make me better?
05:43I don't think he can say that yet.
05:45I do.
05:46I think as the former defensive player of the year, I think to where he is in his game, yeah,
05:53I do.
05:54I don't think he has accomplished enough to say that.
05:57I don't think he has the personality to say that either.
06:01I think the personality is the real concern.
06:04And I think that's another scenario where I think if Evan were more vocal internally,
06:11I think maybe the Cavs would be more inclined to think the way I think,
06:15which is if I'm going for Jalen Brown, I'm going to try and push the Donovan package as opposed to
06:22the Evan package.
06:23So I kind of agree with you on the personality front.
06:26On the accomplishments standpoint, I think he's done as much as you could have expected him to do with the
06:32way this was drawn up
06:33and the thing he came into, the thing it became, and what it's built around.
06:40He's not the best player on the team.
06:42I don't think he's been put in a position to be the best player on the team.
06:45Whether he has or not, he's not the best player on the team.
06:48Austin Reeves can't go to the Lakers and be like, hey, where are the moves that fit my game the
06:53best?
06:54Well, dude, it's not about you.
06:55It's about Luka.
06:56Luka's the best player on the team.
06:58I think at 24 you can.
06:59Sorry, 24 going on 25.
07:01I think you can ask those questions.
07:03Because he's the next guy you've got to start talking about, his contract,
07:08and how much you're going to be willing to pay him, and all those things.
07:12Because if you don't, if you just kind of sidecar him to Donovan,
07:16I think the end result is you will get to a point in the next year where,
07:20if you're not already there already,
07:23there's a chance that I think if the Cavs were to announce a Donovan extension tomorrow,
07:27it wouldn't surprise me if the two days later we got an Evan would like out.
07:31I'm not saying that it can't be Evan's team at some point.
07:35And this organization has been waiting.
07:38They have been waiting.
07:39They have been wanting him to take that kind of leap where he does become the face of the franchise.
07:45He does become the focal point of the offense.
07:48He does become the primary reason that they hang another banner.
07:51He's just not there yet.
07:53And until he's there, I don't think he can start saying things like that.
07:58I don't think it's productive for him to start saying things like that.
08:01I am very concerned when Channing Frye says they don't like each other.
08:05And especially if I can say the they is Donovan and Evan.
08:10I also don't know that it's only that, right?
08:13I think there are some, I have to be careful about this,
08:18I think there are some players inside that locker room that didn't love the James Harden experience.
08:23Because it's a certain style that he is going to play.
08:27And it was very interesting to me that Kenny Atkinson spoke a bunch over the last couple of months about,
08:35hey, when James Harden got here to Cleveland, he didn't ask for anything specific.
08:39The only thing that he wanted that was different was ballroom shoot-arounds, walk-throughs, essentially.
08:44If we're not going to have full-on shoot-arounds on the road, he wants walk-throughs in a ballroom
08:48so that we can go over scouting reports and stuff like that.
08:52That's true.
08:53That's probably the only thing that he vocalized, right?
08:57But the truth is, when you trade for James Harden, you naturally have to adapt your style.
09:02You're going to play slower.
09:04You're going to have more isolations.
09:06You're going to have less people touching the ball on a possession-to-possession basis.
09:10You're going to have less movement throughout the course of it.
09:15I think this team was built a certain kind of way with a certain style of player.
09:20And then when James got here, they naturally played a different kind of way
09:25because that's what happens when you sign up for the James Harden experience.
09:29And I would just say that there are guys in that locker room that grew accustomed to playing a certain
09:35kind of way
09:36and a certain kind of style.
09:37And then when James got here, the drastic change did not sit well with everybody
09:43and not everybody was a fan of that because it didn't bring out the best in them individually.
09:48It's interesting.
09:49I'll get to the Gilbert thing in a second.
09:51I think it was the morning show with Darryl today mentioned how LeBron, I think it was Darryl said,
09:58LeBron doesn't fix all your issues.
09:59One, there's very few players in the NBA that fix – Jalen Brown doesn't fix all your issues.
10:04No, he does not.
10:04He changes what I think you are, but he doesn't fix all your issues.
10:08But I do think he fixes the not afraid to be the a-hole.
10:13Yeah.
10:14I think he fixes the fact that he does know what it takes to get over the top.
10:19And even once he thinks you get there, he's not going to stop.
10:22And he is a big wing that can play with either Jared by himself or Evan or Jared and Evan.
10:32And he can be your point guard.
10:34Yes.
10:35So I just – it's funny, like, find me as many guys who can fix all those things I just
10:41said.
10:41Exactly right.
10:42And I think that's like – so when I hear Darryl or anybody else, because he's not alone in saying
10:46this,
10:46say, well, LeBron doesn't fix all your issues, it's like, yeah, but he fixes a lot more than just about
10:52anybody in the NBA can.
10:53Yes, and I don't think the Cavs are in a situation.
10:56They are coming off an Eastern Conference Finals run.
10:58They are going to be one of the better teams in the Eastern Conference again next year.
11:03I don't think they're in a position where it's just bow down and give LeBron everything that he wants.
11:08This isn't 2014 again.
11:09Yeah.
11:10This is a different kind of situation.
11:12This is a different roster setup.
11:14This is a different place that the franchise is in.
11:17But I also don't think they're in a position where they can turn their back on LeBron James.
11:22Yeah.
11:22Because they do need the things that he brings to the table.
11:25And he, more than anybody else, like you said, he fixes a lot of the things that are wrong with
11:32this team.
11:32And I think he raises their ceiling, and I think he gives them a better chance to win a championship.
11:38And that's all you can ask for, for any kind of substantial move that you make this offseason.
11:42Because there are no guarantees.
11:44Even if you traded for Giannis, there was no guarantee that you were winning a championship.
11:48If you traded for Jalen Brown, no guarantee that you win a championship.
11:51But you've seen LeBron's work.
11:53And oh, by the way, just a couple months ago, he led the Lakers to a series win over the
11:59Houston Rockets.
12:00He did that at 41 years old.
12:03Yep.
12:04So he's still capable of those kinds of things.
12:06Yeah, what kills me about the LeBron conversation is, is people just want to say, well, he's not LeBron anymore.
12:15Okay, he's not 30-year-old LeBron.
12:17No, he's an all-NBA player, though.
12:19So much of what made him a special player is still there.
12:22And oh, by the way, he's still able to dunk and do breakaway stuff that is just stupid to be
12:28able to do at 41 years old.
12:29And play multiple positions and elevate his teammates.
12:35Look what he has done.
12:36And this isn't all him.
12:37Of course, it's not all him.
12:39But look at what happened with Austin Reeves.
12:41Look at what happened with Rui Hachimura in the playoff series.
12:45Look at what happened with Luke Kennard in Los Angeles.
12:48Delhi a decade ago.
12:49Delhi a decade ago.
12:50Timofei Mozgov a decade ago.
12:52J.R. Smith.
12:54Like, think about all of those things.
12:55Yes, part of it is those guys.
12:57But everywhere LeBron has gone, he has made the team better, and he's made his teammates better.
13:03And he can still do that, even at 41 years old.
13:07I know that you and I sit on the opposite side of the Evan stuff and the Donovan stuff.
13:11The guy that I would be most excited to see how he does with LeBron is Evan.
13:17Second of that is maybe like a Sam Merrill, because that dude is just a stone-cold shooter.
13:21And the third would actually be Jalen Tyson, who I'm just ridiculously high on, but I understand he's still a
13:27young guy.
13:27I just love me some Jalen Tyson.
13:28I think that kid can play.
13:30And I love glue guys.
13:31Like, that's the thing that I don't think they have enough of, is glue guys.
13:34But it's interesting to me to then hear Dan Gilbert, who is on the Smart Girl Dumb Questions podcast.
13:41I don't know if you know this, but when I was coming home, right before I came home, my boy
13:47Hacksaw and I were going to have a podcast called Small Talk Large Men.
13:52So I'm very upset that Smart Girl Dumb Questions has taken off, because now it's going to feel like if
13:57we ever did that, we'd be stealing her bit.
14:00Too similar.
14:01Too similar, although we are dumb men.
14:05But Small Talk Large Men.
14:06Dan Gilbert being asked directly about whether LeBron will return or not.
14:11I'm like this wave of New Yorkers who have become excited about the Knicks.
14:16Frontrunner.
14:17Frontrunner.
14:17He gave us a big win.
14:18Okay, well, there's always next year.
14:20There's always next year.
14:21We'll see.
14:22With LeBron.
14:23Maybe.
14:24The king.
14:25All right.
14:25Thank you so much, Dan.
14:27So I'm torn between people really took this to be something that it wasn't, while also saying,
14:33Dan could have just been like, ah, it was a great time, and you know what?
14:37LeBron has had his time.
14:38I can't wait to see where he plays next, and we wish him the best.
14:41At one point, I think Dan would have outright dismissed it.
14:44Yeah.
14:44Even in a joking way, because it just would have been natural for him to be like, bleep
14:50that guy.
14:52But it's different now.
14:53And I think Dan understands that it's about winning a championship, and it's about taking
14:59the next step as an organization, and given the way that this time ended with LeBron is
15:05very, very different than the way that it ended the first time.
15:08So I think Dan would welcome LeBron back, because I think Dan understands the success
15:13that follows LeBron everywhere he goes.
15:16LeBron also feels like an in-between.
15:19And I don't say this in a bad way.
15:20There is run it back, which I think has some merit.
15:24There is make the big move, the Jalen Brown move, however that happens, which I think makes
15:30some sense.
15:31And then there is, you get to keep Donovan, you get to keep Evan, and you get to see if
15:38there's an interstitial piece that can make both guys better.
15:42Because when we say James Harden, I think James Harden made the bigs better, but I think it
15:47was a complicated Donovan trying to figure out how to play next to James Harden, right?
15:56When you start thinking of who could make Donovan better, give me somebody that's six
16:00foot seven, six, seven, a wing that can play three and D, freak athlete, can shoot 40% from
16:06three.
16:07All right, but what does that do to the bigs, right?
16:09LeBron is the interstitial piece because he is a little bit of that last thing, and he's
16:15also an incredible facilitator.
16:17Like, I don't know any other player that can make both guys better.
16:20I also don't know too many other players that could come here to Cleveland and make it something
16:24other than Donovan Mitchell's team.
16:26Yeah.
16:27This is Donovan Mitchell's team.
16:28His fingerprints are all over it.
16:30So many of the moves that they have made in the last three years are Donovan Mitchell-centric.
16:36But if LeBron comes here, that's one of the few guys where Donovan's got to take a step
16:42out of the spotlight, it will never be Donovan Mitchell's team or city as long as LeBron is
16:48here.
16:48It will always be LeBron's city.
16:50Always.
16:51It'll always be LeBron's franchise.
16:53Even at 41 years old, even if Donovan is putting up better numbers than LeBron, the
16:59influence that LeBron would have on this organization and in that locker room, Donovan couldn't compete
17:05with, and he would have to.
17:06It would be the first time that he would have to take a step back.
17:10And that's kind of why, despite the fact that there's something there between them, like
17:16Donovan has talked about how much he loves LeBron.
17:19Of course.
17:19It's probably my biggest doubt is there's a difference between taking a step back on the
17:24court and then taking a step back on the court and behind the scenes as well.
17:28There's also a difference in being motivated enough to do it and saying that, hey, it's the
17:35right thing for this basketball team and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to win.
17:39But can you be effective and can you be happy while doing that?
17:44Yep.
17:44And not everybody can.
17:46Not everybody.
17:46I really couldn't.
17:47Yeah, you're right.
17:48Not everybody can be accepting of that and not everybody can thrive in that kind of role.
17:53And I guess, you know, Donovan's so used to being the guy and he wasn't supposed to be
17:58the guy early in his career and he became the guy quicker than I think anybody expected.
18:04So that would be a drastic change for him from a mentality standpoint.
18:07And I'm just, I'm not sure how he would handle that, to be honest with you.
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