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00:00Hi, Daryl Ryder in for tone today. Hi. Hello Ken. How are you? I'm here. I'm just gonna let everybody
00:06know the rules.
00:07You know what does not happen today at 945 because Lyman isn't in. Because I'm not lazy.
00:13You're calling him out already. No, I'm kidding. He's not a lazy man. You're not coming in hot today? No.
00:19I'm protecting us. Because it's gonna get wild. After what you said about, I'm not gonna give away, no.
00:28No, don't give out that milk just yet. But after what you said before this show about an honor, an
00:37honor bestowed.
00:40Participation trophies for everybody. Look me in the face, YouTube. 92.3 The Fan on YouTube for absolutely free.
00:47I'm telling you right now, it's an honor that this young Cleveland Brown had bestowed upon him.
00:54And I'm gonna tell you right now, I'm ready for a knockdown drag out.
00:57So I'm gonna do what's right. And afterwards, because I think a lot of people are gonna agree with me.
01:03Okay.
01:03They should. I'm gonna protect you.
01:07And do no coming in hot. Because I think you're gonna upset me, you're gonna upset everybody, and I'm gonna
01:11have to dump it.
01:11I'm gonna have to dump the whole segment. And I don't want to do that.
01:15I'm just looking out for your best interest, Daryl. It's good to see you.
01:19As you always do.
01:20Daryl, we'll talk about your hair coming up here in a little bit.
01:22But we gotta talk about some rumors that we're both hearing here.
01:25And that's the reason why Owen did what he did in the open here.
01:30Is, Zach Jackson was on with us.
01:33Now, this is just off the top of my head.
01:35You can go back and listen to that interview.
01:3692.3 The Fan.com.
01:38He was on on Monday.
01:40And Lime had asked him about LeBron.
01:44And Zach said he had sources that he, like, and he said it kind of in a joking fashion.
01:50So, you know, we didn't really, you know, we laughed and giggled and S's and G's and all that stuff.
01:58But it was, you know, it was whatever.
02:00And Zach had brought up that he was hearing that LeBron was becoming a member at Firestone.
02:07And then, yesterday, I checked my Facebook.
02:11I had, like, three people.
02:12And then you said you had other hosts at the fan, I'm not going to name names,
02:16who were saying about yesterday about Firestone and LeBron.
02:20This is correct.
02:22There's a lot of smoke to that fire right now.
02:26And a lot of people are, well, and he posted on his, what, Instagram story yesterday.
02:31What did he do?
02:32He was, I guess, at his gym in Akron, at St. Vincent St. Mary or something.
02:37And everyone was losing their mind that he's, oh, LeBron's back in town.
02:41And so I posted on X, hey, you guys.
02:43Well, he's from here and he has a home in Bath.
02:45I'm like, he's got a house here.
02:49He's worked at the Cavs practice facility in the offseason as a member of the Lakers.
02:54It's one of the courtesies they do in the NBA is you do have access to practice facilities wherever you
03:00are if you're an NBA player.
03:02And so I just was trying to, like, get people to calm down a little bit.
03:06Because as we talk right now, Ken, the Cavaliers have done absolutely nothing to make way for the return of
03:13LeBron James.
03:14Well, they traded away that pick the other night, the first rounder.
03:18I mean, they basically have to no matter what.
03:22Still, they could have tried to hold on.
03:24He's not coming here for the league minimum, people.
03:27Now, wait, now, hold on.
03:28What about the mid-level exception?
03:32Scoop B.
03:32What?
03:33No, no, no, no, no.
03:34I'm sorry.
03:35I hate to send you on a goose chase.
03:36Owen knows.
03:37We played a clip from Rob Parker yesterday where Scoop B. Robinson was on with Rob Parker.
03:42He's an NBA reporter.
03:44Seems like a fantastic person.
03:46Just ran across him.
03:48I think I already like the guy.
03:49Plus, he's telling me things I want to hear, but I think I already like the guy.
03:52So hold on before you say that.
03:54Here is Scoop B. Robinson on Fox Sports two days ago about the possibilities of LeBron coming on.
04:02This is going somewhere.
04:03Trust me on this.
04:04Hit it.
04:04The Lakers can offer him the most money.
04:06However, they do not want to.
04:08If you look at an alternate team, the conversations that I've been having about the Cleveland Cavaliers is something that
04:14is realistic.
04:15In order for that to happen, there are some mathematics that have to make sense from sources around the league.
04:19First of all, James Harden is going to have to restructure that deal.
04:23And I'm told that LeBron James doesn't necessarily want to sign a max extension with the Cavaliers.
04:28In fact, he would take less money to come back home.
04:30But in order for that to also happen, the Cavaliers are hoping that he takes some type of mid-level
04:35exception, one.
04:36And two, that he completes a sign-and-trade with the Los Angeles Lakers in order to make that happen.
04:41So you would have to move a Jared Allen or others.
04:43However, in order to add more to that pot, Dean Wade or Max Struess would have to potentially be moved
04:49as well.
04:50So those are some of the things that I'm hearing as far as the Cleveland Cavaliers.
04:52They currently have a vacant GM position.
04:54And Brandon Weems, who is currently the assistant GM, is a guy who grew up with LeBron James in Akron.
05:00He is a guy that is one of the candidates in that conversation.
05:03They're talking about staying internal.
05:06However, one thing that I am hearing is that the Cavaliers are entertaining a conversation of potentially talking to David
05:12Griffin about that GM position as well.
05:15If this mic would work, which I said to Jason yesterday before he started ripping my head off over it,
05:23I just think it'd be fun.
05:23I liked David Griffin when he was here.
05:26He was one of the architects of the championship team.
05:30You obviously have to have an owner who's willing to do it.
05:32So there's a lot of things that I find to be fun about it.
05:34Now, I don't think that LeBron just comes back for David Griffin or anything like that.
05:37I don't know why Jason took it from there.
05:39He's not coming back because of whoever the GM is.
05:42And I know that.
05:43And they hired David Black the last time around, and he certainly didn't come back to Cleveland because they hired
05:49David Black.
05:49Because he knew at the time that he could hire and fire anybody he wanted.
05:52100%.
05:53That he was in charge of things.
05:54Now, can I do this, though?
05:57I do think it might be a little bit different.
05:59We watched him with the Lakers as best we can.
06:02You know, there's a lot of these games I've got to watch in the morning when I wake up.
06:05And I've got to watch the YouTube compilations and things of the Laker games because they start at 1030 out
06:11there.
06:11And obviously, I'm trying to get some sleep at some point, right?
06:13But he has taken that passenger seat, not a back seat, the passenger seat with the L.A. Lakers.
06:20Right.
06:21And I do wonder if these things, because I think secretly those things were very important to him.
06:27Going along with his thoughts of basketball, finding people who fit in instead of fit out, right?
06:34And that includes the front office.
06:35But, Daryl, I do think it could matter about who is putting together the pieces.
06:42Because LeBron could come here and then sit there and think, well, this isn't over.
06:46We have to make other moves here.
06:48And he has to have somebody he might trust to be able to make those moves.
06:51Because LeBron can't just be the general manager anymore.
06:53I mean, you're 41 years old.
06:54I know that we've called him the de facto owner, de facto general manager over the first two times he
06:58was here.
06:59But you really can't do that at 41.
07:01Like, there is some sort of a future they have to hold on for.
07:03I think that's why the nasty Lakers article came out on ESPN a couple of months ago as well.
07:07Go ahead, Daryl.
07:08Yeah, I mean, he's never been revered in Los Angeles.
07:10I don't think he'll ever be considered by those fans among the greats to play for that franchise.
07:18He will never be in the same breath, in my opinion, as Kobe Bryant, as Magic Johnson.
07:25I think every Laker fan over there, if they were listening to this, probably agrees with you.
07:28Yeah.
07:30And I think that that matters to LeBron.
07:33I do.
07:34I think that matters a lot to him.
07:36And this is going to be his farewell tour.
07:38And you would have to think part of the farewell tour is the adulation from fans.
07:42Well, I think there's two teams you're going to get the adulation from your fans.
07:46It's either Cleveland or Miami.
07:47I could see him going back to Miami now that they've got Giannis down there.
07:51But, you know, I just, I don't think staying in Los Angeles for a swan song, when you're talking about
07:59legacy, which does matter to him, I just don't think it makes sense.
08:03Now, he's not going to come to the Cavaliers and play for the league minimum.
08:06And in that clip, Rob Parker made my point.
08:09The Cavaliers have to do a lot of...
08:11No, I'll scoot beyond Rob Parker.
08:12I beg your pardon.
08:13Go ahead.
08:13I mean, they have to do a lot of financial gymnastics first before they can even make this thing happen.
08:21Because as of right now...
08:23Yeah, but that's not fun to talk about.
08:24I just want to know whether or not you want him back.
08:26Like, of course.
08:28Okay.
08:29Of course.
08:29But I'm trying to...
08:33What?
08:34This is part of just me being me.
08:36Come on, get excited.
08:37Is I'm trying to look at this from the actual mechanics of making it happen rather than just sitting here
08:45rooting for the guy to come back.
08:46Mid-level exception?
08:47I'm not asking him to take the veteran minimum.
08:49I don't think anybody's really expected him.
08:51I agree with you.
08:52Well, they can't do any exceptions either.
08:54Like, the only thing they're allowed...
08:55They can't do a mid-level exception?
08:56They can't move people around?
08:58I mean, he just said that.
08:59You've got to move Dean Wade and Max Strews.
09:00Well, that's what I'm saying.
09:01I'm saying, as it stands right now, the only thing the Cavs can do is re-sign their own free
09:07agents, sign their draft picks, sign players to minimum contracts, okay?
09:11And the trades that they make, the players have to...
09:14It's a one-for-one, and the salaries have to match dollar-for-dollar.
09:18You can't aggregate...
09:20So, right now, they're painted into a corner financially.
09:23Yeah.
09:23Now, yes, there are moves that they can make to go ahead and open the floodgates to make this happen.
09:30Yes.
09:31They haven't done that yet.
09:32That's what has me so curious right now.
09:34Ken, remember going back to 2014 before Anthony Lima read the big Lee Jenkins thing on the air?
09:41Okay?
09:41Well, in the days leading up to that, the Cavaliers were making moves.
09:45They were clearing the books, and it started getting folks' attention.
09:48Like, keep an eye on Cleveland.
09:50They're opening up some, you know, room for a max player or two.
09:54We haven't seen the Cavaliers do anything just yet.
09:58Outside, as you mentioned earlier, they traded out of the first round.
10:01That doesn't really move the needle all that much when it comes to getting out of that second apron.
10:05They've got to get out of the second apron first and foremost.
10:08And to do that, the James Harden domino has to fall, and if my memory serves me correctly, that's got
10:13to happen by, I think, next Monday or Tuesday.
10:15I think with, and you're right, and I also think that anything, this is what makes him so fun.
10:20And the possibilities of him coming back in 14 were amazing.
10:24I don't, obviously, it's not going to have the same zeal.
10:26He's a much older man than what he was in 2014.
10:27So, we're not lying to ourselves about that.
10:30But what makes it fun is that I think everything's possible.
10:33I mean, you see the Miami Heat are doing different things to kind of open up things, and you've heard
10:38a couple of rumors coming out that they would possibly try to bring LeBron back to Miami for a season
10:45or two.
10:45Like, there's a lot of different discussions going on.
10:48And because anything's possible with him, it's all, I think it's all on the table.
10:54I really do.
10:55I think it's all possible.
10:56Him coming back to Cleveland, him going back to L.A., him, and I do think that this is the
11:01worst.
11:02If he went back to Miami, I think that's actually more understandable for his legacy than it is going to
11:07the Golden State Warriors.
11:08Now, I say that now.
11:10I also have to understand that I think I overrate the conversation about legacy 20 years from now.
11:17Like, I don't know if we will remember or go after LeBron, considering he opened everything up.
11:22I don't know if we're going to go after LeBron for, if we're having the Michael conversation.
11:26And still in 20 years, we might be having a Victor Wenminyama conversation about LeBron in 20 years.
11:31But if we're still having that conversation, maybe it adds.
11:34But I don't know if it's going to hurt him in the long term as much as I try to
11:37make it out to be.
11:38The Golden State thing smells of Michael Jordan to the Wizards to me.
11:43Yeah, but Michael retired, came back, he was part of that organization.
11:47Like, there was something in it.
11:49And nobody took, I mean, I was a kid at the time, but nobody took the Wizards seriously.
11:54Like, you go to the Warriors, they're going to be taken seriously to be a contender in the West.
11:58It was just like, hey, I can't believe Michael's 40 and putting up 23 a night.
12:02Like, this is amazing.
12:03I think that that was one of it that Michael just wanted to prove to everybody just how good he
12:07still was
12:08and how great he could still be and raise the profile of the organization he was involved with.
12:12Darrell, I think there's a point to that.
12:14But with LeBron, I just think there's so many different things that make it fun.
12:18And that's why I do.
12:19I enjoy the speculation.
12:21I enjoy the rumors.
12:22I enjoy looking at my phone after a football meeting yesterday and seeing Facebook friends
12:28talking about him being a new member at Firestone.
12:32I like that, Darrell.
12:33I think it's June, but it's also fun.
12:36It's better than a lot of conversations that are going on.
12:39Of course it's fun.
12:40But again, while I would be excited if he came back, the reporter in me is like,
12:47well, there's all these things that need to happen first and foremost before I can get excited.
12:52That's true.
12:53And again, he does spend time here in Northeast Ohio during the offseason on a regular basis.
13:00And so I'm just trying to put some facts out there to go with the hype, if that makes sense.
13:09Yeah, no, you're right.
13:10And this is – let me tell you this.
13:12Go ahead.
13:12Go ahead.
13:12Go ahead.
13:13And whoever the Cavs GM is – and again, this is no disrespect to whoever's going to fill that job.
13:18Kobe Altman's running the show.
13:20It doesn't matter who the GM is.
13:21You're the second person in two days to say that.
13:23I mean, that's true.
13:24That's why Mike Gansey left.
13:26Right.
13:26Maybe you get your chance to run everything.
13:28Yeah, love Mike Gansey, but he didn't have a lot of authority with the Cavaliers as the general manager.
13:33It's true.
13:33And again, I'm not throwing shade at Mike.
13:36It's just true.
13:37It's just the truth.
13:38And I'm thrilled for him.
13:39If he had full power, he would have stayed.
13:40Right.
13:41And I'm thrilled for him.
13:42He got to Philadelphia, and he's going to run that organization.
13:44Great for him, right?
13:46But this is Kobe's show.
13:48So if it's Brandon Weems or David Griffin or whoever, it's almost just – it's a nameplate-on-the-door
13:56type of a job in my view.
13:57So I asked you, is it just enough to have LeBron come back?
14:01And you actually hemmed and hawed before the end of this segment.
14:05So give me your answer before I give you my answer.
14:08No, because I don't think he's the missing piece to win in another NBA championship.
14:12You say no.
14:13Okay.
14:13He's part of the puzzle, but he's not the piece that gets them over the top.
14:18Well, Channing Frye was critical of the current Cavs, and we'll get that for everybody here in just a second
14:22because, I mean,
14:23he says he doesn't think that LeBron should even want to come back, and there's a very cutting reason behind
14:28that that we're going to get.
14:29But to address the issue of just him coming back, see, I think that we are in this mode.
14:34Like, I think everything needs to be examined in this because we are at a very critical juncture here, and
14:39I think we're acting desperately.
14:40I think we know that the end of the tunnel is approaching, and I think that they know that –
14:45I think Cavs fans aren't stupid,
14:47and they know that you're going to have a couple chances here this year.
14:50Maybe next year there's some things that you can do, but very quickly this is going to go – this
14:56is going to go bust.
14:56You've got to move on from some of this stuff.
14:58You've got to get back out of the second apron and all these other things and give yourself some flexibility
15:01for the future
15:02and see if you can do it again because Donovan may not want to be here forever.
15:05James Harden's 36, 37 years old.
15:07I mean, we've gone down that list before.
15:10But I also don't want to make a move just to make a move.
15:13Like with the Evan Mobley conversation, like you've got two guards and a combo with Jared Allen
15:18if we do this thing with Jalen Brown.
15:21There is such a thing as fit, and if you make good arguments about fit, that's great
15:25because 10 years ago, I don't think I'm caring about fit.
15:29I think I'm telling you get the talent, put the talent on the floor, you figure it out.
15:33Well, what's the number one thing that we had been asking about, or at least I had been asking about
15:38for years when it came to Kobe Altman's construction of this roster?
15:42I always thought it was a year behind.
15:44It was fit.
15:45Do these pieces actually fit well together?
15:48Yeah.
15:49And I don't think Jalen Brown for Evan Mobley, the trade is a fit on the floor.
15:54Now, if you pair Jalen Brown with Evan Mobley, that's a fit.
15:59But I can't trade anybody else for Jalen Brown.
16:03You can't trade Donovan Mitchell for Jalen Brown?
16:05No, absolutely not, no.
16:06Why not?
16:07In so many ways, it's the same guy.
16:09Plus, he's not an ascending asset.
16:11Like, you have two guys.
16:12Donovan's an ascending asset?
16:14What will be $70 million a year?
16:16No, I said he's not.
16:17Oh, okay.
16:18I said he's not.
16:18Evan is.
16:19Jalen Tyson is probably the next best one, and that's about it.
16:24The guys who, like guys people get excited about, Evan, we are finding out just how much
16:29the rest of the NBA thinks of Evan this week.
16:32And I think that we have to recalibrate some things.
16:34Because I think that, and I think I'm partially to blame when it comes to this.
16:38I've been very defensive of Evan, called him the unicorn, all these other things.
16:42And when you say that to people for five years every morning, and he still hasn't reached
16:47that, well, Victor this, Victor that, all that.
16:50Like, yeah, I think he's better than Scottie Barnes.
16:52I actually got some pushback on that yesterday, which is weird.
16:54He still can't create his own offense, though.
16:55Yeah, like, and I think that he's, I think he's become more consistent than Chet Holmgren
17:00and better than Chet Holmgren in so many ways, but I think I'll get a fight on that.
17:04You know what the problem with Evan is?
17:05What?
17:05And it's not a problem with Evan.
17:07It's the problem of the team construction.
17:09You have two ball-dominant guards in the backcourt.
17:13And so if I bring Jalen Brown in here, like that, I don't know if that's still going to
17:17be enough to get over the hump.
17:19And so I think some people just go, I don't like this team as they are, and some things
17:23have to change, but I can't just make change for change's sake.
17:26And I think a lot of people go back to LeBron, and LeBron makes everything better, so we'll
17:31just bring back LeBron.
17:31I'm going, well, things change.
17:33He's older.
17:34He can't really be that guy every single night to just take over a ball game and win
17:38to end a losing streak.
17:40All these things that we bring up, he's just not that guy anymore.
17:42He can still do it in spurts, but just not that guy.
17:45Well, the fans have the championship itch again, okay?
17:47You know, it's been 10 years since the Cavs won it all, and this is the closest that they
17:52have come.
17:52You could argue this team is better than, with all due respect to the Price, Doherty,
17:57Nance, Elo, John, Hot Rod, Williams teams.
18:00You could argue that this group is even better than that group who kept running into Michael
18:04Jordan in the late 80s and early 90s.
18:07Like, this is your best shot.
18:08And so I think fans are nervous about that getting away from them, that chance getting away
18:15from them because, well, you've lived on the other side of the aisle where, you know,
18:20you're playing for ping pong balls every night.
18:22And nobody wants to go back to that.
18:24And you have a superstar in Donovan Mitchell who does want to be here, who says he wants
18:28to be here.
18:29He's obviously going to do things that are, or I should say, make decisions that are
18:33financially beneficial to him.
18:35Maybe not so much financially beneficial to the Cavaliers, okay?
18:38And I'm talking about that potential of a super max and $70 million a year, not this
18:43offseason, but the following offseason, which I don't think he's a $70 million a year player.
18:48But as I've talked to people about that issue, they've said, well, Daryl, what's the alternative?
18:54And I'm like, yeah, you got a point there.
18:56Back to the draft with the new rules.
18:57Yeah.
18:57And I can't, I have no argument against that, right?
19:01It's, it's your, you are, you are painted into this corner.
19:04So when you're at this spot, Ken, when you just got to the Eastern Conference Finals,
19:09you got swept, you were basically non-competitive for three of the four games, you blew one of
19:14the games that you had handled, or you thought you had handled right, and you look at the
19:20final four teams in the NBA, and the Cavaliers feel like they're a distant fourth to the other
19:26three teams.
19:27Now, I'm not saying that that's the reality, don't misunderstand me.
19:30But it certainly feels that way.
19:32They don't feel like they're in the same class as Oklahoma City, New York, or San Antonio.
19:37They're just not.
19:37And so a move, I think people need, they want it desperately made.
19:43It's not about the future.
19:44I just want the right fit.
19:46If I have to give up Evan Mobley for the right fit, I'll give up Evan Mobley for the
19:49right fit.
19:49I have to do what I have to do.
19:50But if you think 41-year-old LeBron James is coming in here and he's going to get you
19:53over the top, I just don't think you're being realistic.
19:55Well, I think a lot of people just kind of want to go back to a good feeling again.
19:58Yeah, and look, what LeBron did in the playoffs with the Lakers at his age was nothing short
20:04of sensational.
20:05They were without their top two scorers.
20:07And he did what he did for so many years here in Cleveland, and is he carried the Lakers
20:11through a playoff series.
20:13You brought up the 10-year anniversary.
20:16A lot of people thinking back on it.
20:18Channing Fry, he was on his Road Trippin' podcast with him, Richard Jefferson, Ali Clifton.
20:23And there is some cutting criticism here about this Cavaliers team and why he thinks the
20:29Cavs are a poor fit for his former teammate.
20:31The smartest thing for him right now is to go back to the Lakers.
20:34And here's why.
20:35Cleveland got too many what-ifs now.
20:37After seeing what I saw, 52-year-old LeBron ain't gonna solve them issues.
20:41They got soul issues.
20:43I don't like you issues.
20:45And I don't want to be here with you issues.
20:47If this team was like, hey, we just need this position, I'd be like, boom, go to Cleveland.
20:52That doesn't work with this, and this doesn't work with that.
20:55And when your youngest, best player is starting to get all these rumors, that means people
21:00are on the phone.
21:00That means people, and they think he could get got.
21:02Who?
21:02And I'm not going to Evan Mobley.
21:05Oh, they ain't getting rid of Evan Mobley.
21:07Evan Mobley's stuck there.
21:08He's stuck there.
21:09Oh, that's what I'm saying.
21:10He's stuck.
21:10So what happens if, let's say, Bron goes there?
21:13How does he fix anything?
21:14He doesn't fix the guys liking each other.
21:17He doesn't fix the continuity of the game.
21:19And you think James Harden only operates when he has the ball in the sand most of the time.
21:24I'm not giving the ball to James Harden if LeBron's on the team.
21:27I don't like hearing it, but he's right.
21:29No lies told.
21:30And he does not have time.
21:32Because, again, I think if he comes back, it's one year, maybe two, that's it.
21:36He might have one year or two years as it is anyway.
21:39I don't know if he feels he has the time to change that.
21:41And especially if he comes back and it's a retirement tour, he absolutely doesn't have the time.
21:45Or the energy.
21:46To change those things.
21:47Or the energy for that matter.
21:48And he is not the number one guy with the Lakers.
21:52And I think part of this, of his fight with the Lakers, I'm just going on my own theory.
21:58Remember, all the nastiness.
22:00You still don't get rid of Luka in Dallas because of this.
22:03But all the nastiness about how serious Luka is.
22:07And now he's with LeBron.
22:08LeBron takes basketball as life and death.
22:13He is as serious as a heart attack.
22:15And I think he might have a problem with that.
22:17And I don't know if just coming back to Cleveland is something that he thinks is going to solve that.
22:21And I like that it's the former Cavaliers saying it.
22:24Because I do think, and one of the things that stick out to me, it's like Channing Frye brings it
22:27up.
22:28You've heard Richard Jefferson, who you can clearly tell he wants the Cavs to do well on ESPN broadcast.
22:34Right.
22:34And you've heard the things with, like, Tristan Thompson has given his opinion here over the last couple of years.
22:39And they seem to, like, really pull for him.
22:41And they are very critical of how they think.
22:44Their mentality.
22:45Their mentality and how things are, yes.
22:46And this has been my argument, okay?
22:49Do I think they care?
22:50Yes.
22:50So I don't want to go that far.
22:52I never want to say players don't care.
22:55But they have a mental toughness problem.
22:58All we've heard about for the last four playoff runs is, we're going to learn from this, Ken.
23:03We're going to learn from this experience.
23:05We're going to work harder in the offseason.
23:06We're going to prepare for next.
23:07Did it feel like they had any semblance of urgency during this last playoff run?
23:14And maybe that's why it wasn't as fun for anybody.
23:16And Donovan talked about that.
23:18And that's the problem that I have with this group.
23:20is if getting your teeth kicked in by the Knicks four years ago,
23:25and then having your teeth kicked in by the Celtics three years ago,
23:28and the Pacers kicking your teeth in the year earlier.
23:31I thought the Pacers was just better.
23:32I didn't think they were just tougher.
23:33I didn't think it was a toughness argument.
23:35But I do.
23:36I think the Cavaliers have a toughness problem.
23:41Now, they certainly...
23:42If they give up a 22-point lead, people are going to accuse you of that.
23:44Well, they won two Game 7s.
23:47So you have to give them their flowers for that.
23:49But the problem is, never should have gotten to Game 7 to begin with.
23:52With Toronto, anyway.
23:53No sense of urgency.
23:55And then, once again, you got gassed in the playoffs.
24:00You ran out of steam.
24:01And my issue is, for all the talk about how they're learning from these experiences,
24:07I don't know.
24:08At what point do I get to see the fruits of their lessons?
24:12Right?
24:13I'm still waiting for that.
24:14And maybe I'm being a little unfair here, but I don't think that they have learned their
24:19playoff lessons.
24:20I think they need somebody that's going to come in here and reset their mentality.
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