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00:00Let's get into the trade deadline, the situation, all of the things with one of the guys that I hope
00:06you all see every single day bringing MLB now to you on MLB Network, 9 a.m. Pacific time every
00:14day.
00:15The host here on the River Islands guest line is Brian Kenney joining us here on Willard and Dibs, 95
00:20.7 the game.
00:21Brian, thank you so much for coming on.
00:22How's it all going on the show over there at MLB Network?
00:26Oh, well, loving it.
00:28Enjoying ourselves.
00:28It's been a fascinating season, so good to be with you guys.
00:31Well, it's great to have you and kind of kick around what's going on with what I'm sure you realize
00:37is an unfortunate and surprising season for the baseball team here in the San Francisco Giants.
00:43The report that came out earlier the week, the high-priced guys are on the market.
00:48I don't even know what the ability is to do that.
00:52Two of them have a no-trade clause.
00:54How would you describe the likelihood that any of the three don't finish the year here in San Francisco?
01:01Well, I don't know.
01:02I think what you're saying is true.
01:05It's going to be tough to move any of them.
01:08I mean, who wants those contracts?
01:10That said, I'm not saying it's time to deal.
01:12I think the more I study the game and the more I see the current dynamic, the more I think
01:18you've got to keep adding and keep playing and play it out.
01:22I mean, that trade was made last year.
01:24It's a long-term plan.
01:25You're ready to ship him out now?
01:28He's barely played for you.
01:29He's played for one year.
01:31We're talking about Devers.
01:38I understand the convictions part of it, but Rafi Devers plays first base, and now they've got Bryce Eldridge, who
01:44also is going to play first base.
01:46So you can toggle them between DH and the first base spot.
01:50But do you think that Devers ultimately is kind of a block for Bryce?
01:55Yeah, he's going to be a block forever.
01:57He's a block when you got him.
01:59You know, the contract was bad.
02:02As a third baseman, he had some value because, you know, even though he had bad defensive metrics, he could
02:07play it there.
02:08I've seen him play a decent first base now and then.
02:10But, you know, he's already 29, and now he's moved to the very end of the defensive spectrum.
02:15So, yeah, no, he's an issue.
02:17It was always going to be an issue.
02:20Brian Kinney with us, MLB Now, MLB Network.
02:23Hey, Brian, we're going to give you a buzz right back.
02:25There's a little bit of a bad connection going on there.
02:27A little bit of a clickety-click there with Brian.
02:29I want to make sure that we're hearing what he's saying.
02:31So we're going to try to reconnect with Brian.
02:33I love that.
02:34And, you know, interesting when you think about Devers, Adamus, and Chapman, and there are other names on this list
02:39that, you know, we can get into.
02:40I don't know if we need to hit him with the minutia, but.
02:43Brubaker?
02:43Right.
02:44Louisa Rice, number 13 on the list of possible targets.
02:48For sure.
02:48Yeah.
02:48I mean, to his point, though, you look at the Giants' situation, and maybe it's just because they've won two
02:54games in a row.
02:55We always do this.
02:56Like, one win makes you think to yourself, I mean, should we just wait?
03:02And that's like, there's plenty of time.
03:03The trade deadline is a ways away.
03:06All right, let's reconnect back out onto the River Islands guest line with Brian Kenney, MLB Now, MLB Network.
03:14All right, Brian, good to have you back.
03:16And obviously, looking at this whole situation, would love to kind of expand on that.
03:22It's one thing to look at this year, but Devers has seven years to go on his deal,
03:27and young Bryce Eldridge looks like the absolute real deal at age 21.
03:33Do you think, like, over a period as long as five to seven years, there's room to put both of
03:40them on the same team?
03:42Well, there is.
03:44I mean, it might be the smart thing to try to get out of it, but you're going to end
03:47up,
03:47I would believe, if you tried to trade Devers, you're going to have to pay some of that contract down.
03:52That would limit your flexibility.
03:54So, no, I'm, again, I'm not enamored of the player or the contract.
04:01He's a, when I said it at the time, it was very unpopular to say, you know, he's a top
04:0620 hitter,
04:06maybe a top 12 to 15 hitter in the league, and he's kind of viewed as a superstar.
04:11Right now, how high is his stock?
04:13It's extremely low.
04:15So, as far as hitting the market and having other GMs take him on and his contract,
04:19I don't see that being a very good market.
04:22Right now.
04:23Do you think that the ballpark can be part of the issue here with Rafi Devers?
04:28Earlier this year, he was last among qualified players in OPS.
04:31Is that something that maybe wasn't thought through out here, to bring in a left-hand hitter like that?
04:37Possibly.
04:38I mean, you can be knocked down a little bit, but you can check things through the process stats,
04:43the stack cast stats, to see how hard is he hitting the ball, you know, how much is he launching
04:48the ball.
04:49I think there's something to it.
04:51You go from Fenway Park to San Francisco, there's definitely, you're going to take a hit offensively.
04:57But there are other issues here.
05:00I mean, he's never hit really, you know, league average, and that's where he's been between last year and this
05:06year.
05:06Brian, ESPN did a top 100 MLB trade candidate ranking situation, and Devers and Adamas didn't even make the list.
05:15But Matt Chapman is very high on it.
05:17He's got a no trade clause, but that's a conversation.
05:21How do you feel the league feels right now about Chapman?
05:26Well, I think he's still an elite glove, and he's hitting above league average.
05:31So I think, also, he has nice stack cast stats, and, you know, GMs do love that, especially if you
05:38can make them work on the field.
05:39So I think, right, his stock is good.
05:41His hitting is good.
05:43He's had a quick bat.
05:44He hits the ball very hard.
05:46A lot of swing and miss in the swing, of course.
05:48But the elite gloves makes him attractive.
05:51So, you know, I think other teams will look at him and be very interested.
05:56And you don't think it's too cost-preventative that he still has four more years and $100 million, taking him
06:01all the way to where he's 37?
06:03Yeah, I don't know.
06:04I mean, I thought that contract was rich at the time.
06:08So, no, that's a hindrance.
06:10You might end up paying that down.
06:11Again, the surprise when Devers got traded is that the Red Sox were able to trade the whole player and
06:17the contract.
06:18That was a surprise.
06:19Normally, you trade someone who's just signed that deal, who's more of a slugger, doesn't have, you know, isn't someone
06:26who's a shortstop or a good-fielding right-fielder.
06:29You're going to have to pay some of that down.
06:31The fact that they didn't was a surprise.
06:33I don't think other clubs are going to want to do that.
06:35Brian, we get that it's not even a half year in.
06:38But what's your view on how the Tony Vitello experiment is going?
06:43It's way too early to know.
06:46I like some of his ideas.
06:49I like that he brings energy to it.
06:52I think now that barrier between college and the major leagues has been broken down.
06:58I know there's some resentment out there.
07:00I'm not watching him day to day, so I can't tell you pitch to pitch and how he's handling his
07:04staff.
07:04I know there's been some, you know, issues here and there, small things that, you know, he's gotten caught up
07:09in.
07:09But I kind of like the energy.
07:11I kind of like a guy with new ideas.
07:14And, you know, I think learning on the job is something that's just going to happen.
07:18Yeah, Brian, I wonder if I ask it this way, though, because I know you're there talking to a lot
07:23of ex-players.
07:24And so it's way too early to judge the whole situation.
07:28But in general, what's your view on Major League Baseball players' willingness to sort of play at the height of
07:36their career for a guy that seems like a test case, if you will?
07:43No, I think I don't think there's such a huge barrier between the college game and the major leagues.
07:52There used to be. I don't think there is now.
07:55I think a lot of guys could manage in the major leagues.
07:57So I don't think he's lost.
08:00Again, if I was closer to it, maybe you're closer to it and you see that he's making fundamental mistakes
08:06out there.
08:06I haven't seen that.
08:09And, you know, I think if you're open to new ideas, I like some of the things he's tried,
08:13like early on just having an idea that you could bring your closer in earlier in the game.
08:17I like that.
08:19I don't think the manager is the issue.
08:23Yeah, I don't know if he is the long-term issue or the long-term solution,
08:27but do you think it makes more sense if you have a younger manager with less experience
08:32to also pair him with a younger, maybe more inexperienced team?
08:39You mean not with a veteran team?
08:41I don't know what the best mix is.
08:44And I don't know this, you know, look, it's an entire organism that you're dealing with there,
08:49from baseball operations to coaching, you know, through the manager,
08:55president of baseball operations, general manager, everything else.
08:57So it's the entire organism.
08:59Look, you know, Carlos Mendoza for the Mets looks awful right now.
09:03He looked great year one.
09:05You know, Alex Cora was, like, considered to be a top-five manager in the game,
09:09and he just got fired in April because, you know, there was issues there.
09:14But I don't know what the magic solution is or if there's friction
09:18or if it's a veteran team with a young guy.
09:20I really don't know that.
09:22But, again, I look at much more of, like, roster decisions,
09:27just like with the Mets and, you know, Giants, same thing.
09:29The bigger issues are with the roster and the talent that's there.
09:33Brian, how much of a look have you had a chance to take at Bryce Eldridge
09:37early on here in his career?
09:39Yeah, no, not an awful lot.
09:41No, I've just seen the numbers, and I've just, you know,
09:44seen things in the highlights.
09:45So, no, I haven't had a close look.
09:46I mean, I wonder what your sort of umbrella view or just the baseball buzz is
09:51because this city is absolutely, like, this is the guy everybody's been waiting for.
09:56You know, it's only 100 at bats in, but the OPS is 959.
10:01He's knocked the strikeout rate down already.
10:04He's taken walks, like, he looks like a seasoned big leaguer at age 21.
10:10And I'm just, I'm wondering what your advice would be to fans who are losing their minds.
10:17Like, we think we got a Hall of Famer already, Brian.
10:20No, I think you're allowed to think that now.
10:23I've did essays over the last two weeks, and they're both similar in the new super kid that is emerging
10:31is a polished, ready-to-succeed super kid.
10:37I'm going to kind of paraphrase Dan O'Dowd, who is on our panel on MLB Now all the time.
10:42He's a 15-year GM with the Rockies.
10:44And he said something to the effect of the baseball ecosystem has never been more connected.
10:49So these days, look at the young players that are brand-spanking-new to the game.
10:55I mean, Nick Kurtz, one, just hit the game last year.
10:58Kevin McGonigal, Travis Bazzana, these guys at Ryan Weatherholt of the Cardinals,
11:04these guys come up with plate discipline.
11:06They come up with contact skills.
11:08They come up with high baseball IQ.
11:10And so the kid that comes up and has that, like, first 100 A-Bs, as you're saying,
11:16you're thinking, oh, what can you really tell?
11:17Well, no, you can tell an awful lot in the stack-ass era, in his plate discipline,
11:22how well he controls the strike zone, how hard he hits the ball, what pitches he hits,
11:26what he doesn't hit.
11:27So, no, the new kid hitting the majors, this isn't 1983.
11:32You know, this new kid is polished and ready to go.
11:35And to what do you and the experts attribute that?
11:39Oh, it's the wave of technology, tech, analytics, also having the language.
11:46You know, someone had put this in my head.
11:49I don't want to steal things.
11:50But, hey, the language exists now, top to bottom, about controlling the strike zone.
11:55So it's no longer like, are you able to drive in runs?
11:59Can you drive the ball?
12:00It's like, hey, what's your bat plane?
12:02You know, how are you controlling the zone?
12:04What's your contact rate?
12:06What pitches are you missing?
12:07There's instant feedback.
12:08A kid can get a million reps.
12:10The other part of this is that also making it more of a meritocracy,
12:14where if a kid is willing to do a million reps, it doesn't matter how tall he is.
12:19You know, look, there's room for Connor Griffin, who's 6'4", 225, who has blazing speed.
12:24You know, he's got Jimmy Rollins' speed and Cal Ripken's size.
12:27But there's room for Kevin McGonigal, who obviously is major league ready
12:31from the first time he steps into the batter's box at the major league level.
12:35Brian, speaking of inexperience, but having that youth be ready to go right when you get the job,
12:43does that extend to the front office?
12:45In other words, how are you assessing Buster Posey so far?
12:50No, it's very much up in the air.
12:53And I know he came in with a real shine, just like Derek Jeter did.
12:59You know, this is a blue-chip player, a Hall of Fame player.
13:04But the skill set is vastly different.
13:06Now, I'm watching what he did, and I didn't look askance at it.
13:10I thought, okay, I liked Willie Adamas.
13:12I thought Matt Chabot was a quality player.
13:14And I really thought maybe there is something to these,
13:17not the simplistic view of clubhouse chemistry,
13:21but having guys who are, you know, winners on the field.
13:24And there's something to that.
13:25It's not just cliche.
13:27There are guys who behave as winners.
13:28And there is something to that.
13:31But that said, like, you know, that's taking on the Devers contract,
13:37taking on the player at that time, which was, you know, universally applauded.
13:42I thought that that could come back to haunt you.
13:44And look, clearly, it's already, you know, an issue.
13:48Already, I don't want to make it more than it is,
13:50but it's, you know, it's an Albert Frost already.
13:54So you can make, you go big, you can make big mistakes.
13:56Well, and I think, Brian, you're being kind to leave out the fact
14:00that the young left-hander they traded is now going to be an all-star
14:03for the Milwaukee Brewers this year.
14:05So, I mean, is it too early to say that Buster did a bad deal there?
14:10That's a disaster.
14:11No, you're right.
14:13You know, but two clubs didn't see it.
14:15That is what puzzles me.
14:17We talked to the Brewers pitching coach yesterday,
14:23and he was saying, no, he goes, I thought he was ready to go.
14:26We saw a few things.
14:27We tightened up a few things.
14:28He was good to go.
14:30But, you know, the Red Sox had Kyle Harrison.
14:33You guys had Kyle Harrison.
14:35And, like, again, I'm stunned.
14:37You know, not only that, but, like, also a, you know, a first-rounder,
14:41former first-rounder that, you know, Tibbs,
14:42that's now in the Dodgers organization.
14:45Like, again, it's not just that, hey, he showed promise,
14:47but maybe he's finding out that, oh, wait a second,
14:49that's the 13th overall pick in a draft two years ago.
14:53That's a blue-chip piece.
14:54Like, it's not time to trade that guy.
14:57So, yeah, there's a lot of things.
14:59As I broke down that trade yesterday that I said, wow,
15:02there's a lot of bad evaluation going on here.
15:05And, obviously, you have Red Sox and Giants who whiffed on a guy who is one of the top,
15:09I don't know, 15 pitchers in baseball right now.
15:11Yeah, the Red Sox won the Devers trade and then immediately lost the trade
15:15by sending Tibbs with 1,000 OPS to the Dodgers and sending Harrison to Milwaukee.
15:20So, it's like picking up a wallet and realizing there's no idea
15:23and there's 1,000 bucks in it, and you just throw it in the garbage.
15:28Yeah, you know, again, when I look back, what really hit me studying it
15:32was Craig Breslow actually, you know, he was criticized for trading Devers.
15:36He was excoriated, actually, in Boston.
15:37You know, like, this is brutal.
15:40You've got to get this guy out of here.
15:41He has no touch.
15:42He has no feel.
15:42He pulled off a spectacular trade.
15:44But then he destroyed it by trading two of the key pieces that he was gifted
15:49from the Giants.
15:51So, yeah, there's a lot of miscalculation there, by the way, by two former players.
15:56Craig Breslow played in the major leagues.
15:57Buster Posey excelled in the major leagues.
16:00He's all a famer.
16:01So, you know, those are the guys you would think wouldn't whiff on that
16:05because those are obvious baseball-y things.
16:07It's not some wonky thing that a guy is finding in a pitching lab somewhere.
16:11These are big things.
16:12That's a first-rounder.
16:13That's a top-pitching prospect.
16:15And they didn't see the value in those players.
16:18We got excoriated and askance from Brian Kenney.
16:22Thank you so much.
16:23That's strong.
16:24Very strong.
16:26I'm glad to help.
16:27I know you're an intellectual program.
16:28Yeah, highly.
16:29We are now.
16:31Yeah, thanks, Brian.
16:32Really fun to have you on.
16:34Okay, thank you, fellas.
16:35Take care.
16:35All right, Brian Kenney, MLB Now, MLB Network.
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