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00:00The personnel decisions this organization, this team has made is geared towards everything being built around Mitchell.
00:08And the last step in that was the Garland-Harden trade.
00:11I know people are saying, hey, you know, Garland wouldn't have been healthy this year.
00:15Well, he was certainly healthy for the Clippers at the end of the year.
00:18Even if all things being equal, even if you're going to tell me Harden was an upgrade in certain ways
00:25for the Cavs that the Cavs needed,
00:26I probably wouldn't argue with that for this year.
00:28You still gave up 26 years old to bring in 36 years old.
00:33And there is a universe that if Donovan Mitchell doesn't want to sign that contract extension,
00:38the Cavs could have done almost a retool around Mobley and Garland and just built this team a little differently.
00:46There's no doubt there's a roster construction issue here, which we can dive into in a minute.
00:50But the reality is that now they've left themselves in a spot where if Donovan Mitchell doesn't want to be
00:57back,
00:57the only really good young building block they have is Mobley, and then it becomes a decision of do you
01:05do something with him
01:06because his value is very high with the thought that by the time you get good, he's going to be
01:10a little bit older.
01:10Like that's kind of where the Cavs have put themselves.
01:13And, again, it comes down to the one trade.
01:16If the James Harden trade didn't get you to the finals, I hate to put it in these terms, it's
01:21a failure.
01:21It really is.
01:23And so I look at it that way.
01:25The Cavs, we talk about what they should do.
01:28Mitchell's decision on this extension is going to be the pivot point for them.
01:32Brian Geltziler joining us here from SiriusXM NBA Radio.
01:35What is the roster construction problem that you see?
01:39Well, okay, I just don't think the two bigs thing, and especially these two bigs, works.
01:44I think when you look at what happened against the Knicks here, the Cavs are completely overmatched on the wing.
01:49The Knicks bring three size wings to you, one really big, really strong, really athletic in OG Ananobi,
01:55another one that's wiry, long, quick, thin, can shoot in bridges,
01:59and another one that's a little smaller but stout and strong and fast in Josh Hart.
02:04And I think when you look at where the Cavs are on the wing,
02:07they don't have the athleticism on the wing outside of Jalen Tyson,
02:11and I think Jalen Tyson showed us he just wasn't ready to be a major contributor in the playoffs here.
02:16When the wings are guys like Merrill, and I love Max Strews, guys.
02:20I'm not bagging on Max Strews.
02:21I thought he was one of the bright spots for the Cavs in these playoffs.
02:24Is he athletic enough over a long series to handle those guys?
02:27Maybe, but not alone.
02:29And that's where I think the Cavs have a problem.
02:31I think the two big things, and I give Kenny Atkinson credit.
02:35He leaned into it, even if it wasn't necessarily what his preference was,
02:38because it was what he had to do to put his best players on the floor.
02:41But I think that's where the roster construction thing lies.
02:43I just don't think these other big wings that teams have,
02:47and when you take a look at what Oklahoma City's doing with their big perimeter players and big wings,
02:53you look at San Antonio, where they're endless with San Antonio,
02:57between Champagny and Vassell and Keldon Johnson and Harper's 6'6",
03:01and Carter Bryant's 6'6", and Castle is only 6'4", but he's a linebacker.
03:07Like, when you look at the size that some of these other teams bring to you,
03:11Cleveland doesn't have it on the wing.
03:12And that's where they're going to have to kind of shift things up a little bit
03:15from a roster construction standpoint, get deeper on the perimeter
03:19with the understanding that this 2-7-footer thing has not been something that's worked
03:24when it's come to advancing in the playoffs,
03:25and they've given it, I think, more than an ample opportunity.
03:28Talking to Brian Geltseiler right now, host on SiriusXM NBA Radio.
03:33So, obviously, Donovan Mitchell, you already talked about whether or not he decides to sign an extension.
03:39Of course, there's the also part of this where he waits a year so he can sign the full $350
03:45million
03:47opportunity over five years.
03:48That's $70 million per year.
03:50If he does stay here, like, he's considered a top-10-ish player in the sport, right, Brian?
03:58Yes.
03:59Absolutely.
03:59Yet, there is a gap after that, like, top five to that next tier.
04:05And now you'd have to say Brunson is clearly ahead of him in that realm.
04:10Unless you'd say, well, that's more about roster.
04:12Like, if you would have flipped Jalen Brunson and Donovan Mitchell,
04:15what would we be saying about Donovan Mitchell?
04:17Maybe you can make that argument.
04:20That's a really fair question and a really good question.
04:23And I do think, listen, you know, Jalen Brunson's a small guard.
04:26Jalen Brunson just had a fantastic series, and Jalen Brunson's a wonderful player.
04:31He also changed his game a little to fit this Knicks personnel in this playoff.
04:36And it's been a change that has made him hit a new level.
04:39I mean, frankly, Brunson's better right now than he's ever been,
04:41mostly because the ball's not in his hands as much.
04:43And that's been a big switch the Knicks have made.
04:46Here's my point to answer your question.
04:48I think Brunson's able to do what he does where Mitchell's not able to achieve
04:53what Brunson's achieved because of the roster behind him.
04:55I think the roster matters a lot.
04:57You know, Carl Towns, to me, has rapidly become one of the most underrated players in the NBA.
05:04I don't care what the stat sheet says.
05:06He dominated that game last night in a way that no one else did.
05:10Brunson has leaned into that instead of resisting it, which he did for last year.
05:15Let's face it, as he got to the second half of this year,
05:17he started to embrace Towns' strengths more.
05:20Donovan Mitchell doesn't have that guy.
05:22Evan Mobley maybe could be that guy one day.
05:24He's not that guy right now.
05:25And more importantly, the Cavs don't use him as that guy.
05:29So you kind of look at what Brunson has behind him.
05:32O.G. Ananobi, I mean, I like to call him a muscle wing.
05:35Is there anybody closely resembling that on the Cavs roster?
05:40I think it's very easy to lay this at Mitchell's feet.
05:42But I go back to the roster construction issue.
05:45They haven't built the right kind of team to make Donovan Mitchell a viable number one.
05:50And you can say, you know, you can make the simple statement of, well, a viable number one shouldn't need
05:55the right kind of team around them.
05:56I think that's naive.
05:57I think you do have to have especially a smaller guard like Mitchell.
06:01And, granted, Mitchell is another one who's a linebacker, who's a physical guy, an incredibly skilled player.
06:06But to be able to win and advance into the NBA finals, you're going to need a different kind of
06:13roster around Donovan Mitchell.
06:15It's not that he's not a number one.
06:17He very well can be a number one.
06:19It's what's around him that's going to make him the kind of number one that can lead a team to
06:23the finals.
06:24Brian Geltziler joining us here on the Wise Heart Right.
06:26We make a right call call right hotline.
06:28What would you do with Kenny Atkinson?
06:30Would you move on from him today?
06:33I wouldn't, but I think they will.
06:35And I don't love the decision.
06:37Listen, Kenny's an excellent coach.
06:38I know he made a statement the other day regarding analytics.
06:41And it was a very convoluted way of saying they're making contested shots and we're missing open ones.
06:47Because, yes, the expected value of what they were getting, they just weren't hitting good shots.
06:51And that happens.
06:52Kenny decided to make it a little bit more technical, and he got fried over it.
06:57Listen, I don't love the fact that you had guys not running back on defense last night.
07:01I think some of that's an indictment of Kenny.
07:03I think Kenny got caught a little deer in the headlights down the stretch of game one.
07:07And I think it really, really hurt the Cavaliers very badly.
07:12With all that said, Kenny just took a team further than any Cavs team's gotten without LeBron James.
07:17And I think that at one point or another here, listen, the last coach the Cavs disposed of, J.B.
07:22Bickerstaff,
07:23has done a heck of a good job in Detroit and helped turn that thing around.
07:26I think you have to be really, really careful what you're going to do if you fire a good, accomplished
07:31coach like Kenny Atkinson
07:33and not let him grow with a group.
07:35Now, again, if you're going to do a complete directional shift, maybe that's something they want to do.
07:39Again, I think they're going to fire him.
07:41I don't think they should.
07:43I like Kenny.
07:44And, again, it was not his best foot forward here in this series.
07:47He didn't do a wonderful job.
07:48This was a Cavs team that played with their food.
07:51And I tell you, a lot of things I heard in the postgame last night from the Cavs, I rolled
07:55my eyes at.
07:56One thing I did not roll my eyes at, which is the fact that the Cavs squandered opportunities to close
08:02out series
08:03in two consecutive game sixes.
08:05And those two extra games wore on them and made them a tired team entering a conference championship.
08:11Now, again, maybe they would have been a tired team anyway.
08:13They would have been a little bit of a less tired team.
08:15But, potentially, this series changed when they blew a 22-point lead with seven minutes left in game one.
08:21You were never recovering from that.
08:22Not ever.
08:23The Knicks didn't recover from it last year in the Indiana series.
08:26You just don't recover from that.
08:27You can make a fair case that if they play two less games to get to the conference finals,
08:33they have a little more gas in the tank to finish that one.
08:35So, again, I look at all those things.
08:37I'd keep Kenny.
08:38I like Kenny a lot as a coach.
08:40I think he's dynamic.
08:41I think he's smart.
08:42I think he's a guy that players relate to.
08:45With all that said, I think the Cavs have shown you there's not a lot of patience left with this
08:49group.
08:49And I think they could end up very well pulling the plug on Kenny.
08:53Brian, the Cavs already did a bit of a pivot from their traditional core when they moved on from Garland
09:00to match the Donovan Mitchell window.
09:03Do they need to think about seriously doing that with Evan Mobley?
09:06Because I do think Mobley has big-time value.
09:10We've been debating whether or not Giannis would even waive a no trade, would want any part of coming to
09:16Cleveland.
09:16But you couldn't deny that Cleveland would be a much better opportunity for Giannis than, say, the Miami Heat or
09:25staying with Milwaukee.
09:28Let's be very clear, guys.
09:29Giannis does not have a no trade clause.
09:31Where Giannis' power lies in being dealt is that he's one year away from his contract expiring.
09:37So if Giannis tells you he doesn't want to sign an extension with you, then you have him as a
09:42rental.
09:42And that's where Giannis has his power.
09:44And I just want to be clear about that.
09:45Here's the thing.
09:46Listen, I wouldn't kill the Cavs if they went ahead and did something with Evan Mobley for Giannis.
09:53Because, you know, you've leaned into the now direction.
09:56That's where you're going.
09:58If you're going to keep James Harden for next year, it makes a very interesting threesome there.
10:02The problem that I have with the Cavs is that the Milwaukee Bucks don't have draft picks.
10:07Any deal they make, as much as, yes, they're going to want a really good player, and Mobley is a
10:12terrific player that Milwaukee could build around.
10:14Sam, but just as we talk about the Cavs keeping Mobley, if they blow it up, the Bucks run into
10:21the same kind of situation if you can't get draft picks.
10:23And the Cavs just don't have a ton of picks to put in deals.
10:26They're still giving picks for the Donovan Mitchell deal.
10:28So, like, for the Cavs, they're not loaded with picks to be able to furnish Milwaukee with, which means Milwaukee's
10:33going to look at other places to other teams.
10:35Here's my point.
10:36Giannis makes a nice story for the Cavs.
10:39I question severely if they can get him.
10:42That's the thing.
10:43That's the hard part.
10:44I get it.
10:45Listen, I understand why you would want to lean in.
10:47He's 31 years old, and I would say probably his next two years will be his best years that he's
10:52going to have left.
10:53And you'll have James Harden there as a 36 going into a 37-year-old player.
10:57He won't have to be relied on as much.
10:59Of course, there's Donovan Mitchell.
11:00They can put some pieces around those guys.
11:02I get all that.
11:03The problem is is that if you don't have draft picks for the Milwaukee Bucks, the thing has happened here,
11:09and it's what the Bucks anticipated at the trade deadline when they held Giannis.
11:13They knew there was going to be a plethora of teams that feel like they've underachieved.
11:17And now you've had a couple teams enter Giannis sweepstakes that maybe wouldn't have been there otherwise if they had
11:22more success.
11:23Cleveland is one of them.
11:24Houston is one of them.
11:25And quite frankly, if Oklahoma City flames out in this series, they could end up being one of them.
11:29It's going to be a robust market.
11:31And the difference between teams like Houston and Oklahoma City, if they decide they want to go bid on Giannis,
11:36they have all the draft capital in the world to be able to offer the Milwaukee Bucks.
11:40The Cavs don't have that.
11:41And I think that's where kind of some of this blows up.
11:44Yes, you may want to get in the Giannis sweepstakes, and I think the Cavs will want to be involved.
11:48In the end, I just don't know that they have the draft capital to be able to bring them in.
11:52Brian Geltziler joining us, NBA Radio on SiriusXM, NBA Radio, also NBA TV.
12:01LeBron, should we get him?
12:02Can we get him?
12:03What do you want to come back?
12:06I have a tough time believing you'd want to come back.
12:09And I don't say that to denigrate the city of Cleveland, the fans of Cleveland, or the Cavaliers organization,
12:13because I think all three of those would be very, very welcoming, and it would be a wonderful story for
12:19LeBron to come back.
12:20But I think we all have to be a little realistic about LeBron James as a 41-year-old man
12:26and where his life is and what his life entails.
12:28It's in L.A.
12:29It's in California.
12:31His business operations are in California.
12:33His wife is in California.
12:34LeBron's already stated publicly that one of the downsides of his long career is the lack of time he's gotten
12:42to spend with his wife over time,
12:43and that's something he wants to make up for.
12:45We certainly see him a lot on social media now playing a lot of golf in a lot of gorgeous
12:48weather.
12:49I just, to me, I think if LeBron's going to leave the Lakers, it's going to be either the Clippers
12:54or the Warriors.
12:55I think he stays in California.
12:56I really do.
12:57And I think for the Cavs, listen, if you could get him on a league minimum deal, well, duh, you'd
13:01go ahead and grab him.
13:02Even if you could find the right kind of contract, even if you would swap out a Jared Allen for
13:07him and pay him $30 million,
13:08that's something I would strongly consider if I were the Cavs.
13:11But he's got to want to be there, and that's the thing.
13:14And listen, I don't think he would want to be disrespectful to Cleveland, the Cavs fans, the organization, anything like
13:20that,
13:20because he's a native son.
13:22He brought a title there.
13:24He loved being there, and it was a wonderful part of his career.
13:27Is that a part of his career that he's going to want to go back to right now?
13:32And from everything I hear and everything I understand, I severely doubt it.
13:35I'm not saying it can't happen.
13:37I just think that when we look at it through this lens, it's more than just a basketball lens, guys.
13:42Guys, it's a lifestyle decision for LeBron James.
13:46And I see a guy and hear about a guy that's way too happy in his life and his lifestyle
13:52to uproot it all,
13:53to come back to a place where he already won.
13:56Brian Geltz, I'll follow him on Twitter at bgeltzNBA.
13:59I should ask, Brian.
14:01Brian, like, now that the Knicks have put together, like, the most impressive 10-game run in the history of
14:05the sport,
14:06and that's not me exaggerating by the numbers it actually is.
14:10You know, come on, Kenny and the Cavs, they look at the numbers like crazy.
14:14So, with all that said, like, do they actually have a shot now in the NBA Finals?
14:19Because I didn't think so a month ago, but they don't miss.
14:22I can't remember a team, like, Landry Schammett turned into Klay Thompson overnight.
14:28All right, so let's start with this, okay?
14:31Here's how, I'm going to start with the answer to this question, is that the Knicks,
14:35and I'm not looking to pour cold water or anything the Knicks accomplished,
14:38and I'll get to that in a minute.
14:39They did have a very easy road here.
14:41They really did.
14:42Atlanta wasn't ready to be there.
14:45Philly was completely and entirely compromised coming out of that Boston series,
14:49and the Knicks did a super job at taking care of a compromised version of Embiid,
14:53and the Cavs were exhausted in this series.
14:55I thought the Knicks played three tougher teams last year in the first round against Detroit,
14:59Boston, and then Indiana.
15:00So it has been an easy road.
15:02With all that said, I think the Knicks have a legitimate shot to win an NBA title.
15:06What you've seen happen with the Knicks is they have caught that sweet spot
15:10where unselfishness and discipline meet.
15:14And what has happened is that you had a coaching staff that made drastic changes
15:18on both sides of the ball after game three of the Atlanta series
15:22in terms of how they run the offense with Carl Towns at the elbow
15:26and Mitchell Robinson at the elbow being prominent parts as opposed to just a lot of Brunson iso.
15:31Think about how many possessions you watched in this series, guys,
15:34where Jalen Brunson stopped bringing the ball up.
15:35They moved Brunson to be as much of an off-ball player as much of an on-ball player,
15:39and that's one of the reasons he doesn't look tired at the end of games anymore.
15:43He has been absolutely lethal.
15:44Defensively, they just stopped switching so much.
15:47They're switching here and there when they have to,
15:49but they're maintaining command over their own matchups,
15:53and it really was a huge factor in this Cleveland series.
15:57Mike Brown has gotten this group to buy in with him.
16:00I give Rick Brunson a tremendous amount of credit because the hardest part of getting them to buy in,
16:07and no one from the Knicks is going to tell you this, guys,
16:08the hardest part of getting them to buy into playing a new form of offense
16:12was getting Jalen Brunson to relinquish the ball out of his hands.
16:16His father played a huge role in getting that done.
16:18He really did.
16:19There was a sideline interaction they had during game four of the Atlanta series that went viral
16:24that, from what I understand, was Rick pretty much saying get off the ball,
16:27get it out of your hands, stop and trust your other teammates to be able to play off the ball.
16:32They did that, and it's worked out fantastically well.
16:35Right now, a huge benefit to the Knicks here,
16:37besides the fact that they're playing at the highest level you can imagine this group playing at right now
16:42and playing together, they don't care who gets shots.
16:44They just want good shots, and they're playing fast in a way that we haven't seen them play fast.
16:49The fact is OKC San Antonio series could go to seven games,
16:52and OKC right now is down two guys who are secondary shot creators for them
16:58that they need desperately against high-level competition.
17:01That's Jalen Williams and A.J. Mitchell, and you saw them get exposed in game four for that.
17:06So guys are getting beaten up there.
17:08San Antonio, as well as Fox and Harper, played.
17:11Fox has got a bad ankle.
17:13Harper's got a bad groin.
17:14They need both those guys desperately.
17:16They're banged up.
17:17The further this series goes and the more the Knicks get to rest,
17:20what we saw with the Knicks is that rest will hurt you for about a half of one game,
17:25and then it helps you the rest of the series.
17:27And I think for the Knicks here, getting a compromised team and not as healthy
17:31and a worn-down team, whether it's San Antonio or OKC,
17:33is a massive advantage for them going into a final.
17:36I give them every chance to win an NBA championship.
17:39Brian, thank you very much for the time.
17:40All the best.
17:42My pleasure, guys.
17:43We'll talk to you soon.
17:44Take care.
17:45Brian Geltziler, Sirius XM NBA Radio.
17:47A lot to unpack there as well.
17:48Should we keep Kenny Atkinson?
17:50Brian said he'd keep him.
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