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00:00I heard over the weekend, as you know, we have substantial local programming on the weekend.
00:06We don't just putt like some of the places.
00:09Some of the other program we'd have to have is so bad we have to go local with it.
00:13So I heard Padone on with Daryl yesterday wondering if this could be used to get us out of the
00:19contract.
00:21What?
00:21And I was so confused.
00:24I was so confused that to the just a lot of what I saw about James Harden in general
00:29because immediately they went back to him versus Jalen Brunson.
00:34And I'm like, well, is San Antonio getting out of all their players, too, because they couldn't guard Jalen Brunson?
00:41No.
00:43They said it was an opportunity to get out of the James Harden business.
00:47Well, Padone said, can't the Cavs just admit they made a mistake with the Harden trade?
00:50And I'm like, well, Harden got you further than—
00:53To the Eastern Conference Finals.
00:54You weren't getting to the Eastern Conference Finals.
00:55You probably weren't being Toronto.
00:56I'm so amazed at the level of conversation when it comes to the NBA that doesn't exist in the other
01:03sports.
01:03Like, when you lose in the Super Bowl or the AFC-NFC Championship games,
01:09the home teams, they don't bombard their local radio with, get rid of everybody.
01:15Usually not, no.
01:16But, yeah, in the NBA, that's what they're saying about San Antonio, about, you know, certain players.
01:23They're saying that, and they don't do that in baseball, and they don't do that in the NFL.
01:29Well, I don't—like, yeah, De'Aaron Fox is the butt of a bunch of jokes or something like that, but
01:33I don't think that—
01:33Who was, by the way, who was playing injured.
01:35Yeah, I don't think that's a—yeah, but we don't like to recognize that.
01:38You know, it's still a league where, you know, you talk a lot of trash about guys.
01:41I think it's become more rings culture than anything else out there.
01:44Yeah, quite literally, as if you—like, Carl Anthony Towns, before this year, was a losing player.
01:51Then two games into the NBA Finals was, quite literally, Kenny, they were talking about him as a Hall of
01:58Famer.
01:58Well, I remember—
01:59As a Hall of Famer.
01:59And then, when they lost a game, when it wasn't going to be a sweep, and then when Carl Anthony
02:06Towns couldn't stay on the floor,
02:07it went right—it devolved right back into Carl Anthony Towns as a losing player.
02:11Well, did you feel, though—well, I heard some of the discourse about,
02:14you know, Victor Wem and Yama yesterday, and some people said they were disappointed.
02:18John ran in and said, oh, because he was the biggest choke artist we've ever seen in the NBA.
02:22He said that?
02:23And I'm like—
02:24It's his second year.
02:25They got to the Finals.
02:26It's his second year.
02:27In his third year, right?
02:29Was LeBron the biggest choke artist when we went and we got swept in the Finals in 2007?
02:34Because this is Victor Wem and Yama's second year.
02:37Like, to me, the whole—I got to—like, yeah, it's a complete team victory.
02:43Give the Knicks their credit.
02:44I'm not one of the people—the Kenny Atkinson stuff was stupid, and then some of the other stuff that was
02:49being said about San Antonio dictating the pace and stuff.
02:52No.
02:53The Knicks went out and they won the series, okay?
02:55That being pointed out there, it's only the second season.
02:58So, I do think that there's a lot with Victor Wem and Yama to come, and I think that this
03:02will probably make them a much tougher team to deal with in the future.
03:05Because I think one of the biggest differences was this is a team that had been to the playoffs multiple
03:10times, had had a couple of disasters that played out for them with the New York Knicks.
03:15And I kind of wondered, and I want to ask you because of that, does it make us feel like
03:18we are closer than we've been in the past, or do we feel like we're further away because of what
03:22the Knicks just did?
03:23Because we made it further.
03:25We got to the Eastern Conference Finals.
03:26We got swept by the Knicks, and then the Knicks went out and got San Antonio in five.
03:30Yeah, because it took them seven to get past Toronto.
03:34Never should have taken them seven.
03:34Seven to get past Detroit.
03:35Yeah.
03:36So, nobody feels great about the run.
03:39Nobody feels great, which is what you guys told me before the playoffs.
03:42You guys were all right.
03:43You guys said you weren't in love with this team.
03:45And then I'm like, yeah, they got to the Eastern Conference Finals.
03:47Don't care.
03:47No chance to win a championship.
03:49And so, it's really hard in this sport to get better.
03:52I will tell you that in New York, the thought was, a year ago, they had no chance to win
03:58anything.
03:59Well, that's why they fired Tom Thibodeau.
04:00That's why they made the trade that they had made.
04:02So, they hired Mike Brown, and people said, well, that's not going to be a difference.
04:07And then they won 52 games this year, the regular season.
04:11So, do you feel better?
04:11They had the Knicks winning a championship.
04:13It seems like you're setting this up to feel better.
04:15It's weird.
04:16But, at the same time, there still fundamentally are some issues with the Cavs that make me think it's going
04:22to be really hard.
04:23Thing is, I thought that about the Knicks, too.
04:25I thought there was no chance the Knicks could win a championship with Carl Anthony Towns and Jalen Brunson defensively.
04:30I thought they were not going to be able to get over those things.
04:32And they did.
04:34They did.
04:35They went on an all-time heater.
04:37I would not have picked them to beat Oklahoma City.
04:39I gave them more of a chance against the Spurs, but I would not have picked them against Oklahoma City.
04:44I would have definitely picked them to lose Oklahoma City.
04:46And today, I don't know if they would have beaten Oklahoma City.
04:49But it doesn't matter.
04:50They didn't have to play Oklahoma City.
04:52So, I guess one thing we have to be a little more open to in the NBA, and eight straight
04:56years of eight different champions,
04:59kind of has to have you figuring that, is you can't be so definitive on these things beforehand.
05:04It made me feel a little bit better, or at least a little more centered about what the Cavaliers are
05:09doing in certain ways.
05:11Now, obviously, you know, James Harden getting arrested in a $100 bond or $500 bond or whatever it was.
05:16That's not – I don't think that that's a reason to get into anything.
05:19I don't understand why that was brought up over the weekend, but that's somebody else's conversation.
05:23I didn't hear it.
05:24It's not mine.
05:25What I'm pointing out is this, is that, yeah, it made me feel like we were closer, but it also
05:29made me feel in a way like I'm more desperate to make a move.
05:34I'm more desperate to help out Donovan Mitchell.
05:37I'm more desperate to do a couple of things here that is going to make us a closer contender to
05:42what we are.
05:43Because I think we have a bunch of veterans on this team that have paid the price the same way
05:47I look at what New York has been through.
05:49I mean, they've got – they didn't just show up in the postseason and then go on this run and
05:54win the title.
05:54I mean, they've been in the postseason now, what, four straight years, five straight years?
05:58I know they had the one year and then they had the one year out and then they were back
06:01in and they've been in the postseason ever since.
06:02So we're looking at, what, four of the last five years.
06:05And they finally break through and I'm going, well, we've been in the postseason five years or so.
06:08Like, maybe we just need to break through with one more move and it doesn't necessarily maybe have to be
06:14Giannis or LeBron.
06:16I beg your pardon on such a thing.
06:18I know I took up a lot of space, but that's kind of what I'm thinking there.
06:21Yeah, and the Knicks, they made their moves.
06:22They used all their assets to go get Bridges and OG Ananobi.
06:27And there were people all along the way saying they're not good enough.
06:31They're not good enough to win a championship.
06:32There's no way that they can win a championship.
06:34Nobody really took – remember, this was the JV –
06:36And it ended up being so great down the stretch.
06:38The Eastern Conference Finals were the JV.
06:40That's what everybody said.
06:41And remember, there were a lot of people who were nasty about Mike Brown in the second half of the
06:44year
06:44because he had all those different lineups that he was trotting out there.
06:47A la the same way the Cavs were kind of doing it, but they were having to do it because
06:50of necessity.
06:50But you had Mike Brown trotting out all those different lineups, trying all those different things,
06:54and they were a problem for everybody they played in the postseason.
06:572-1-6-4-7-4-0-0-92.
06:59Well, I want to ask you guys, do you think we're closer or further away after the Knicks won?
07:05Do you think the Cavaliers are closer because of how well the Knicks played against San Antonio
07:10and won their first championship since 1973?
07:14Well, if the Cavs want to do what the Knicks just did,
07:15maybe Donovan's got to take a page out of Jalen Brunson's book.
07:18Let me explain here in three seconds.
07:20Let me tell you, though, every Cavs conversation brought to you by the fine folks at Surfside Hard Iced Tea
07:24who ask you to please enjoy that Surfside Hard Iced Tea responsibly.
07:27And when you go somewhere, you want an authentic experience that includes the good old U.S. of A.
07:34Lima was shocked by something he saw yesterday on the Internet.
07:37We'll talk about that coming up at 722 this morning.
07:39Also, Lima likes at 745.
07:41So I asked you, does it feel like the Cavs are any closer?
07:44It does feel to me like the Cavs are closer.
07:46I do feel like they're closer to accomplishing the goal of winning a championship,
07:50but there's moves that need to be made.
07:52And I also think that there's a tough conversation that needs to be had.
07:55James Harden, I understand that there was the arrest that happened the other day,
07:59which really is not that big of a deal, but, you know, we have to be on record about it.
08:03Fine.
08:05James Harden's taking a bit of a pay cut, right, to stay with this team,
08:08or he's giving them some wiggle room, some flexibility.
08:11Yeah, he's – the whole point of making – well, it's two points of making this move
08:15was you thought you were getting a player better even at his age than Darius,
08:19and check, he was, especially in the playoffs, believe it or not.
08:22Yes, he was better than Darius Garland had ever been,
08:24but that he also was going to make a lot less money than what Darius was going to make going
08:29forward,
08:30which was going to save you money, create flexibility.
08:33So we have a hard cap here, right, is what you're saying.
08:35We have a very basically hard cap is where we used to not because I think some people are picking
08:39up
08:39on the NBA financials a little bit.
08:42Are we right or are we wrong?
08:43Because I've got to bring up something to you, and I don't know – it's not going to be taken
08:47–
08:47it's not going to go over well, but I've got to –
08:50Yeah, the second apron.
08:51The second apron is something that you don't want to live about for very long
08:54because you get so – it's so penal, Kenny.
08:57It's very penal.
08:57What if – you've brought this up several times,
09:02and I think you've been setting me up to do this because you want me to take the bait,
09:05and I'm going to take the bait, and it's not going to be a very popular thing to say.
09:09You said Jalen Brunson is on – would be the fourth highest paid Cleveland Cavalier?
09:14Yeah, right now.
09:16So you're saying he took a discount to be with the New York Knicks?
09:19Yes, yes.
09:20Pretty hefty one.
09:24Well, you have one more year here, then you have a player option 27-28, right?
09:29And that offseason, going into the – after the 27 season, after this coming season,
09:35you have an option coming up here, a player option.
09:39Why can't I ask Donovan to maybe make things a little easier?
09:43Not easier on Dan.
09:44I'm not telling him to spare a billionaire some money.
09:48That's not it.
09:50But I have Jalen Brunson, who has taken a pay cut.
09:53He's the one – he might – I mean, Aaron Judge is not playing right now,
09:57so he might be the most popular guy in New York.
10:00I mean, they just won a championship for the first time since 1973.
10:03Yeah, he has to.
10:03Jalen Brunson is the most popular athlete in New York City.
10:07Jose Ramirez is the most popular athlete in Cleveland, Ohio.
10:10Now, he's well-documented to have taken a pay cut.
10:12Everybody loves it when a rich professional athlete takes a pay cut.
10:15It doesn't matter if you're in New York City or Cleveland, Ohio.
10:17It just might mean a little bit more in Cleveland, Ohio, right?
10:20Is it too much to ask Donovan to consider if we want to go to where we want to go
10:26as he ages a little bit to consider taking a little less to make a little room
10:31for a little more for other people to maybe help us get over the hump here?
10:35Is that a possibility?
10:36I know it's not apples to apples, man.
10:39I know it's not.
10:40But I'm asking a question that I know I'm going to get hammered for,
10:43but I'm not saying that he's not good enough to make a lot of money.
10:45I'm not saying he's not a good basketball player.
10:47What I'm saying is that maybe he could take a page out of Jalen Brunson's book
10:50and cut a little bit of a discount off if it makes it for the greater good of the basketball
10:55team.
10:55This is the thing that I guarantee is happening in a lot of cities
10:59when somebody like Jalen Brunson wins it and there is that pay cut.
11:03Exactly.
11:03I have to have this conversation.
11:04They are wondering, why can't our guy do that when nobody really does in the NBA?
11:09It's just so surprising when it happens.
11:12Well, I'm not going to hammer him for taking the most money he can.
11:15Again, you're only going to be an athlete and you can only make this type of money for so long
11:19in your life.
11:20That's fine.
11:21But if I see an example right then and there in front of us in Jalen Brunson,
11:25who's beloved in New York City and is a great basketball player,
11:29taking a bit less so they could do a bit more with a second apron that makes things very difficult
11:35on you,
11:36I'm just wondering maybe Donovan could do the same.
11:38He's not going to be getting any younger and we're going to need bigger guys, younger guys,
11:44something more dynamic to help out with the wing position.
11:47There are ways that you can make this make sense and it can work.
11:52Although, you know, the thing about them being in the second apron and they're going to do what they can
11:58around the margins to get under that second apron,
12:01the problem is even if, say, Donovan took a $15-$20 million less than market rate,
12:09because remember, if he opts out this year, the most they can pay him
12:15and what he'll most likely be looking for is $68 million a year.
12:19And then if he waits a year, which is dangerous, but if he waits, it's dangerous for both parties in
12:26this
12:26because an injury could happen or, you know, he could become a malcontent, not happy, whatever.
12:31Like, the most he could get is, you know, north of $70 per year for five years.
12:38This would be $68 for four years.
12:39If he even took, like, let's say $15 million, what are you saying that you think he might be able
12:44to take?
12:44Because Jalen took $115 million less than what he could have gotten, and that money was then used.
12:52If you said if he was taking $15 million off the top, let's start there.
12:56Yeah, times four would be $60 million.
12:58Okay.
12:58It might not actually free up any cap space.
13:01Like, you would have to have him take, you would have to have him take, like, a $40 million per
13:07year.
13:07Well, then I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth.
13:09I just said I don't need him to take a discount to help out Dan Gilbert.
13:13Like, that's not necessarily.
13:15I'm talking about helping out the team.
13:17If the cap's going to be so stringent and we keep making a big deal on all these guys, making
13:21money elsewhere, doing other things to accomplish the greater good, to win a championship here,
13:26I only want Donovan Mitchell, I want to only ask Donovan Mitchell to take a pay cut if it helped
13:32out their overall situation with their roster.
13:34If it doesn't, then no, there's no reason to ask him to take a pay cut.
13:37Fine, go get $70 million.
13:38It ain't my money.
13:39I don't care.
13:39That's what's so hard about where the Cavs are relative to the Cavs.
13:44Because it feels like we just keep hitting heavier and heavier ceilings.
13:48Like, we finally got to the Eastern Conference Finals.
13:50Yeah, but then you got swept.
13:52And then that team that swept you, they beat a team that nobody really thought they had a chance to
13:56beat, San Antonio.
13:58Well, when they swept you, people started to think they had a chance to beat San Antonio.
14:01I thought it was like 50-50 with the Spurs.
14:03But I did not think that they were going to beat San Antonio.
14:05They dispatched them in five games.
14:07So it feels like, could you beat San Antonio?
14:10Probably not.
14:11You probably couldn't have beat in Oklahoma City.
14:12And it obviously feels like for New York, they could have beaten anybody.
14:15So you are definitely the fourth best team in the NBA, which is a great place to stand.
14:21Well, Vegas has us as the ninth.
14:23They have us with the ninth best championship odds, saying the next year.
14:25Ninth or tenth.
14:26Well, I'm just going by what the results just happened 48 hours ago.
14:29So I look at this differently, and I say, all right, you're a championship-level basketball team,
14:35but how do you break through and really contend for teams that can really compete for this championship?
14:39Because it does seem to be it's those three, and then there's us.
14:42The big swing items were going to be always Giannis, and then LeBron.
14:48Like, just in terms of, there's plenty of reasons why you'd want LeBron.
14:51But part of it is you could have used LeBron in the playoffs.
14:54Like, nobody could dispute that.
14:55We had the worst wings of any of the real contenders of the playoffs.
14:59LeBron would step in and be able to do a lot of the stuff functionally that you didn't have.
15:04The issue is that it's not up to you on LeBron or Giannis.
15:08Like, Giannis could block, you know, any deal.
15:12Like, he could say, well, I'm not ever going to sign an extension with you,
15:15and then you would never make that deal.
15:17And then LeBron, we understand, like, he probably wants to stay in L.A.,
15:22but make the most amount of money possible.
15:24And the Lakers might balk at that.
15:26And now there are rumors of, like, Golden State.
15:29In the end, it's not up to you on LeBron either.
15:33So it's hard to make those two biggest moves, like, your area of focus in the offseason
15:39when they rely on those players and their decision-making.
15:44Well, yeah.
15:45So I think I've got to find out a different way here over the next couple of years.
15:49Not just over this offseason, even though I'm kind of hitting the panic button on things,
15:53going, hey, we've got to do something this offseason, or we're not going to get to where we need to
15:56go.
15:56Well, we all agree right now.
15:57Or even during the trade deadline of next year, yes.
15:58Now, maybe you would have said the same thing about Carl Anthony Towns,
16:01but Carl, at least, is a big who can shoot and rebound and showed he can play some defense,
16:06which I think some people have wondered about.
16:07Well, that move, I'll tell you this.
16:09I didn't think highly of that move.
16:10I thought it was a little bit of a desperate move.
16:12Now, it's clearly paid off for them.
16:13Maybe this is the time where you do it, because it's either put-up or shut-up time.
16:16Wasn't James Dolan pretty adamant over there that this was either going to be a sink-or-swim type of
16:21season
16:22with Mike Brown?
16:23I mean, title or bust.
16:24They ended up winning the title here.
16:25I'm just curious.
16:26Do we all agree that it's going to be almost impossible for them to get over their two-guards setup
16:35if neither of them can really defend and they have no wings?
16:40I agree.
16:40Like, their best wing is Dean Wade, who should be, like, an eighth or ninth player.
16:46And so I'm trying to find ways.
16:47And yet, for us, it has to start.
16:48I'm trying to find ways to make that situation better.
16:51And one of the few ways I can is that, okay, can Donovan take a bit of a discount here
16:56to help out our situation when it comes to the roster?
16:59If you're telling me that there's any no realistic way for him to be able to do so,
17:05then I'm not going to ask him to take a pay cut.
17:06I don't need him to take a pay cut just to save Dan Gilbert money.
17:10I need – if we needed to, I would want him to take a pay cut to help out his
17:14chances to win a championship,
17:15to help our chances of enjoyment of a championship, which is a hard thing to do by what you're telling
17:19me over here.
17:20But I saw this, and I go, man, we're not that far away.
17:23But because of the way the Knicks played and because of the talent that Oklahoma City has,
17:29because of the talent, like, Victor Wemenyama is not going to get any worse.
17:32I can't – there's no way that it just feels like we're so far away,
17:36even though we're closer than a lot of teams in professional basketball.
17:39I can't believe that Vegas has us as the ninth best.
17:41I don't understand where that comes from.
17:43They have us on par with basically Detroit.
17:45But that's probably –
17:47Well, Detroit's going to get more experience and get better.
17:49That's true.
17:50There's talk.
17:50They could go after Kyrie.
17:51I mean, there's all sorts of very interesting maneuvers that they –
17:55because they need, obviously, more shooting, more scoring.
17:58But it's like the Cavs are – the Cavs are going to be good this year.
18:01The Cavs are going to be really good.
18:03But are they going to – do they have the setup that will get them through
18:08to pass the third round and into the fourth round?
18:10Like, it's hard right now to look at them and see how gassed Harden was,
18:14how gassed Donovan was, and not think it's going to go any differently next year
18:18when, you know, the Knicks are going to be there.
18:20The Celtics are clearly looking at either big wave moves
18:24or, you know, banking on Tatum being healthy next year.
18:28Like, they're going to be in the way too.
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