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00:00:01It's a drive by Danny Dawson, Josh Chisholm goes deep.

00:00:09Hello and welcome to the Pinstripe Post. My name is Ryan Sampson, but he's the star of the show.

00:00:12Joel Sherman. Today is Monday, May 18th. The Yankees come off a series loss to the New York Mets in

00:00:18the Subway Series.

00:00:19And we're here to talk about it on today's episode. I'm sure there's a lot that we can get into

00:00:23here.

00:00:23But before we get to any of it, as always, on a Monday morning, I'm going to ask Joel Sherman,

00:00:26how are you doing today, sir?

00:00:27Sure. Good. I always like, you know, it's a long. Aaron Boone said this a few times over the weekend.

00:00:33It's a long season. And so when there's stuff that gets injected into it, that really spices it up like

00:00:39Mets, Yankees.

00:00:40Great. You know, you certainly it came at a good time in some ways. Right.

00:00:46The Knicks were off for so long that like if the Knicks were playing all weekend, it might have gotten

00:00:50lost a little bit.

00:00:52But it had it to center stage until at least Tuesday night when the Knicks start playing again.

00:00:56Yeah, you're not you're not wrong there, Joel. And a lot of local New Yorkers are focused on this.

00:01:02And what a weird, weird series. The fact that the Mets were in last place coming into this reeling.

00:01:07I read your column on Post Sports Plus last night or this morning, I should say.

00:01:11But just the interesting, I guess, dichotomy of it all, like the fact that the Mets are in last place.

00:01:16The Yankees look like one of the best teams in baseball for the first month and a half of the

00:01:20season.

00:01:20And it's been pretty brutal for the Yankees here on this pinstripe post for just this last week, exposing a

00:01:26lot of the weaknesses for the team.

00:01:27Before we get to the bullpen, I want to start with the catcher, Austin Wells, because this is part of

00:01:34my real or unreal part of the show that I want to start here, Joel.

00:01:37And there's some stats here that are quite alarming for Austin Wells in terms of the season that he's already

00:01:42having this year.

00:01:42Now, last year, we know that he was hitting around 215. He had 21 homers. It was not a great

00:01:48year for him.

00:01:49I know Aaron Boone said in the offseason we would like to see more out of him.

00:01:52But to start the year, this year, when you rank him, according to Fangraphs, out of 219 qualified hitters,

00:02:00he's just not doing as much damage as you would hope in that lineup.

00:02:04Right now, he is 148th in barrel percentage, 151st in F-war, 153rd in weighted on-base average, 164th in

00:02:13expected slug.

00:02:14He only has three homers this year, 167th in on-base percentage.

00:02:18He's towards the bottom, like you could say, quadrant of qualified hitters amongst all baseball hitters.

00:02:25So, Joel, real or unreal, this feels like it's been a year plus now of Austin Wells at the plate.

00:02:32There's some things I saw over the weekend that were even more alarming in terms of swinging at the first

00:02:36pitch.

00:02:36We can get into that.

00:02:37But what are you seeing right now from Austin Wells and the offensive profile he is building right here?

00:02:42Yeah, look, it's at this point now, it would be just doing sometimes what I think Aaron Boone at least

00:02:50does publicly for reporters,

00:02:52which is you cover your eyes and act like something isn't going on when it's so blatantly going on.

00:02:58It feels to me a little bit like Wells and Volpe have become the Yankees' Vientos and Beatty.

00:03:06Like it felt like it was going to be something, then it wasn't, then it was, then it wasn't.

00:03:10And you're kind of off and on, and you don't know when to get off of that train because you

00:03:15do think that they're talented players.

00:03:16In the case with the Yankees, those are first-round draft choices, albeit late in the first round,

00:03:21where it's generally hard to find real high-end quality.

00:03:26But what's always going to be interesting is Wells now has some similar, I'm sorry for so many comparisons,

00:03:31to me has some comparisons to Gary Sanchez in that his calling card was offense when he was drafted.

00:03:39Almost everyone I talked to when he was drafted and when he was a young player in the minor leagues

00:03:44thought he would be a middle-of-the-line-up hitter, fourth, fifth, or sixth, but have to switch to

00:03:49first base or DH.

00:03:51To his credit, he worked his butt off and became an exceptional defensive catcher,

00:03:56especially when it comes to things like pitch calling and framing, etc.

00:04:02But we saw that with Gary Sanchez, where Sanchez came in, and I know people think of the freak show

00:04:09that maybe it became, which was strikeouts and homers, but he was just a flat-out good hitter.

00:04:13And I think between the fact that the Yankees' philosophy then was launch it in the air to the pull

00:04:18side,

00:04:19which is generally a good philosophy, but I think really took away his whole game,

00:04:25that he hit the ball hard everywhere, and he'd hit a ton of home runs just because of his barrel

00:04:31rates

00:04:31and his exit velocity if they had been left alone.

00:04:34And then the other thing is they just wanted him to become a better catcher,

00:04:36which obviously you need from that position.

00:04:39You can't put a bad defender behind the plate in 2026.

00:04:43You know, you can't.

00:04:44It's too exposed if you do.

00:04:47And Gary Sanchez got a little better.

00:04:49Austin Wells has gotten a lot better.

00:04:51But does it cost you on the other side of the ball, which is your calling card,

00:04:55that you put so much mental and physical wear and tear into doing this?

00:05:00To the point where, you know, you wonder,

00:05:02should the Yankees get to the point where they do what the Marlins and the Rockies do

00:05:05and have somebody call the pitchers from the dugout?

00:05:09Like, just take something off of his plate.

00:05:12Because clearly, if you're trying to resurrect him,

00:05:15how would you begin to even think to do that?

00:05:17To me, and I have not dug into these numbers, so I hope they're correct.

00:05:24But my sense is the ball is on the ground to the pull side too much with him,

00:05:29and it's in the air to the non-pull side too much.

00:05:33Like, he is flying out pretty deep to left and center a lot.

00:05:37He does not seem – like, when he hits the ball hard, it's not in the air.

00:05:41It's not to the pull side right now.

00:05:44And I think he – it's funny because I just criticized the Sanchez thing.

00:05:49I think he has to get back to getting the ball in the air to the pull side,

00:05:52especially at home.

00:05:54Because you can live – excuse me, Ryan.

00:05:57You can live with some OPS deficiencies, on-base deficiencies,

00:06:04if he were hitting 20 to 25 homers.

00:06:07And at Yankee Stadium, his bat used to profile to that.

00:06:12And so if he was a really sound defensive catcher – and he is.

00:06:15If you go to something like DRS, he's among the leaders constantly.

00:06:21And he was – it's a little bit like the Ryan McMahon situation.

00:06:24If he's defending and running the bases well and popping 20 to 25 homers,

00:06:30you know, if you have a lineup of nine Aaron Judges,

00:06:32you'll probably win the World Series.

00:06:34Everybody has players with deficiencies.

00:06:37What you want them to have is assets that make the –

00:06:41make it hard for the other team to get through the lineup,

00:06:43where it can't just be, oh, this is the easy part of the lineup,

00:06:46and throw in fastballs, we're getting out of this in nine pitches.

00:06:49And so guys like McMahon and Wells have to hit the ball out of the ballpark

00:06:53a little bit.

00:06:54And if Wells isn't going to pull it in the air, out of the ballpark,

00:07:01you know, he becomes a tougher player to play as much,

00:07:04which then leads to a question of what would you do?

00:07:09You know, this is the moment – forgive the language, Ryan.

00:07:12I know you let me curse on the show.

00:07:13It's like where I've called out the Yankees before is, like,

00:07:16is it bullshit or not bullshit?

00:07:18Do you really believe in J.C. Ascara?

00:07:20Do you really think he's, like, one of the 10 to 20 best catchers in baseball?

00:07:24Because if I believe that and I watch Wells struggling the way he was struggling,

00:07:28Ascara would play a lot more.

00:07:30Why did they bring Wells in yesterday when Ascara was starting,

00:07:34a day game after a night game?

00:07:35And, like, to everything you're saying right now, Joel,

00:07:37a guy who's reeling at the plate in Wells, give Ascara a run.

00:07:41Like you said, if you do believe in him, you can run.

00:07:43Well, I think that was part of getting what was, I thought,

00:07:47a really good ploy by Boone.

00:07:50In the sixth inning, when Minaya comes in,

00:07:53you're trying to leverage that inning as much as possible.

00:07:58And it went from 1-1 to 5-1, where he made a hockey change

00:08:01and got all his right-hand hitters up.

00:08:03I mean, Wells came in not to hit, but because somebody hit for Ascara, right?

00:08:07Was it Rosario hit for Ascara?

00:08:11And I think ended up hitting a sacrifice fly.

00:08:14So I thought that tactically that was a strong move by Boone

00:08:18to try to seize on the Mets' weakest relief pitcher at a problematic time.

00:08:23And if you're going to have all those righties on the bench,

00:08:25that's the time to go after it.

00:08:26And it worked, right?

00:08:27Goldschmidt got hit.

00:08:28I think Rosario got a sacrifice fly.

00:08:31And Wells got in the game as a defensive replacement,

00:08:34not as an offensive replacement.

00:08:36And of course, at the time, it's 5-1.

00:08:38You're not going to think that his next at-bat

00:08:40or that final at-bat when he hits into the 3-6-3

00:08:43is going to be as big.

00:08:45You know, that's a failure of the bullpen.

00:08:48Why his at-bat turns out to be a big at-bat.

00:08:51I would say, Ryan, the one thing I wouldn't do is I would not put Ben.

00:08:55I know I hear a lot from, you know,

00:08:57I have so many friends who are Yankee fans.

00:08:59Don't put Ben Rice back there.

00:09:00You know me, Ryan.

00:09:02I don't go thumbing through the internet.

00:09:03But I assume when I hear from my friends who are fans,

00:09:06this is the, you know, like I assume they're a chorus of what's going on.

00:09:10Like, you have such a good thing going with Ben Rice right now.

00:09:13And to chase a little more offense, I would not risk, you know,

00:09:19because again, if part of our theory,

00:09:23and I do believe this is the theory,

00:09:25is that Austin Wells has lost his offense

00:09:29chasing elite defense and catcher.

00:09:32You know, you need Ben Rice to be Kyle Schwarber.

00:09:36You know, like, not just for today,

00:09:38because at some point, Stanton is going to be gone,

00:09:41and the one-two in the middle of the lineup

00:09:42has got to be Judge Rice.

00:09:44And you feel like that's a strong duo.

00:09:46I mean, it is a strong duo.

00:09:48It might arguably be the best duo in this whole sport right now,

00:09:51offensively.

00:09:52Yeah.

00:09:52And he's playing okay at first base.

00:09:56You'd like it to be a little better.

00:09:58I get that.

00:09:59And by the way, I think if you start using Goldschmidt a lot,

00:10:03you'll get less.

00:10:05Right.

00:10:05And so, so this has got to be a,

00:10:09a, you never did decide to find that right-hand hitting catcher

00:10:14to be, be part of this.

00:10:16Which are not easy to find,

00:10:17which you have highlighted plenty of times on the show.

00:10:19They're certainly not easy to find who are offensive guys too.

00:10:22You know,

00:10:22there's a lot of Austin hedges in the world,

00:10:24but it's hard to find guys who can hit.

00:10:27But if you're going to tell me that you believe in Ascara to this level,

00:10:33and we have played this game,

00:10:35whether it's true or not,

00:10:35that these are the ruthless Yankees in 2026.

00:10:39And, you know,

00:10:40you've already changed out one of the fair haired boys at shortstop.

00:10:45Then I'm going to either say,

00:10:48do it or bullshit that you actually believe it.

00:10:52I believe I agree with you,

00:10:54Joel.

00:10:54And I think this is a real turning,

00:10:55like a turning point,

00:10:56but test for the Yankees at this point of the season,

00:10:58right?

00:10:59This is like the real slog.

00:11:00Like we're getting into it.

00:11:01You have one more coming back in terms of Garrett Cole to help strengthen

00:11:06that rotation even further.

00:11:07We'll get into the bullpen and the,

00:11:09and the,

00:11:09you know,

00:11:10how that gets affected here going forward.

00:11:11But obviously the max freed injury,

00:11:13we can get into too,

00:11:13but the Wells part of this all,

00:11:15it's just,

00:11:16it's interesting that we have seen this player who came out so hot at the

00:11:20plate,

00:11:21like you said,

00:11:21and came up with an offensive profile and it's just gone downhill ever

00:11:25since.

00:11:25And it has not come back to where it was when he first came to the majors.

00:11:29And can I,

00:11:29I'm sorry.

00:11:30I interrupted you,

00:11:30right?

00:11:30And one,

00:11:31one other thing I would do is I thought even when Wells was struggling at

00:11:36other points,

00:11:37the at-bats were good.

00:11:38He'd draw deep counts.

00:11:41He'd hit the ball crisply.

00:11:43He did not seem to be phased.

00:11:46It feels to me a little bit starting in the world series in 24,

00:11:53like that.

00:11:54That he,

00:11:54that post season people were really attacking him up in the zone with

00:11:58fastballs.

00:11:59And again,

00:12:01is catching every day,

00:12:02something that slows down his bat to try to speed up his back.

00:12:06Does that make him susceptible to hooks and,

00:12:08does that make him susceptible to hooks and,

00:12:08and soft stuff?

00:12:11He,

00:12:12the at-bat quality,

00:12:15which I used to admire,

00:12:16even when the surface numbers didn't match that quality,

00:12:21I don't think he's having good at-bats now.

00:12:24He's swinging a first pitch a lot,

00:12:26Joel.

00:12:26That's the problem I have right now too.

00:12:28And that's,

00:12:28I think that happens when you're afraid to go.

00:12:31Like he used to be a guy who was not afraid to go three and two,

00:12:33two and two,

00:12:34and work deep into account.

00:12:36And he had good at-bats.

00:12:38He's just,

00:12:39you can't,

00:12:39you,

00:12:40you,

00:12:40you were kind enough to dig up all the numbers on this,

00:12:44or you could just watch it.

00:12:46And if you're just watching it,

00:12:48you're,

00:12:49I don't think your eyes are lying and the numbers are,

00:12:52and the metrics are verifying that the offense has cratered.

00:12:56And you have to seriously ask yourself if you're the Yankees now,

00:13:02what could we tolerate in exchange for what we love,

00:13:05behind the plate and game calling and framing in particular.

00:13:10And,

00:13:10and if you really believe those are also strong qualities of a scar,

00:13:15do you have to,

00:13:16you know,

00:13:17like no catcher plays every day,

00:13:19but right now the balance is essentially like four to one.

00:13:23Yeah.

00:13:23It is change it either to three to two or two to three for a little

00:13:27while as a reset for Wells to see if,

00:13:31if,

00:13:31if something could be done because there's,

00:13:33there's no way you could be actually worse than what,

00:13:35Wells is right now.

00:13:37He is the worst in terms of what he's doing at the plate.

00:13:39So a scarer,

00:13:40bad offense.

00:13:41You can't,

00:13:41again,

00:13:42the numbers in the eye test are verifiable on this.

00:13:45I mean,

00:13:46think about it.

00:13:46Joel,

00:13:46yesterday you pointed out Volpe,

00:13:48right?

00:13:49Draws the walk to get the running against Minaya.

00:13:51And what does Wells do when he comes up to the plate after him?

00:13:54He swings at the first pitcher,

00:13:55soft comeback or to the pitcher gets out of the inning.

00:13:57It's like work the impact.

00:13:59The guy just walked a run in against Volpe.

00:14:02Like,

00:14:02and wasn't competitive by the way.

00:14:04Right.

00:14:04So that's where like,

00:14:05I think mentally wondering,

00:14:07like you're saying,

00:14:07like,

00:14:08well,

00:14:08I think what he's thinking is he's just frustrated and walked Volpe,

00:14:12uh,

00:14:13and not competitive.

00:14:14And now he has a left on left situation.

00:14:16I think Wells is trying to ambush and think I'm going to get a cookie,

00:14:20like to get ahead before he tries to get to his sweeper.

00:14:24And I'm going to try again.

00:14:25I didn't ask the Wells after the game,

00:14:28but I didn't ask him about that specific at bat.

00:14:30Uh,

00:14:31I,

00:14:31I think if I were guessing along,

00:14:34I'm thinking he's thinking I'm sitting fastball and I'm going to try to,

00:14:38the problem is he is hitting the ball on the ground too much and he is not

00:14:42pulling it in the air.

00:14:44Let that's,

00:14:45that's the problem is I'm fine with the thought process there.

00:14:49I'm going to get a cookie.

00:14:50Like,

00:14:50again,

00:14:51it's not in front of me.

00:14:52Like I,

00:14:52if I looked at the three dimensional pitch,

00:14:55was it a fastball?

00:14:56It wasn't right down the middle.

00:14:57And if it is,

00:14:58that's kind of scary also,

00:14:59because he,

00:15:01if he's setting up for that pitch and got that pitch and the best he could do

00:15:04was,

00:15:05was,

00:15:05was a meek dribbler that says something.

00:15:08Also,

00:15:09I,

00:15:09the,

00:15:10the first pitch thing there doesn't bother me because I'm like,

00:15:13Oh,

00:15:13because I think you should probably be thinking in that situation,

00:15:17ambush.

00:15:19Yeah.

00:15:20Like,

00:15:20like you make a small,

00:15:22again,

00:15:23you,

00:15:23you might have the time to go look at it right now is,

00:15:25does he get a pitch?

00:15:27Like if he's makes the strike zone really small and says,

00:15:31if I see heat in this specific spot,

00:15:34I'm trying to go grand slam right here and end all doubt about this game.

00:15:39I don't really have a problem with it.

00:15:43The problem is,

00:15:43is did he chase something or did he not see a fastball or did he not see a

00:15:48pitch right down the middle?

00:15:50It was a little bit low,

00:15:51but he,

00:15:52he,

00:15:52it was in the strike zone and I hear you.

00:15:54He's hunting that,

00:15:54that meatball right there.

00:15:56And it wasn't a fastball,

00:15:57not a sweeper.

00:15:57It was a fastball.

00:15:58So I think he's thinking heat low in my joy zone in the strike zone.

00:16:03And that in a way is worrisome because his thought process is met by the

00:16:09pitch and he still can't do anything.

00:16:12Right.

00:16:12It might be,

00:16:13it's a timing thing with him.

00:16:14Like you said,

00:16:15he's not great with the off speed pitches right now too.

00:16:18I just,

00:16:18I think Boone said yesterday,

00:16:20like he's ahead,

00:16:21ahead of the off speed stuff in terms of his approach,

00:16:24maybe it's swinging.

00:16:25So it right now,

00:16:26it just feels very much like this is more,

00:16:28real of what we're seeing.

00:16:30It's been a couple of years now,

00:16:32right?

00:16:32I think since the,

00:16:33the 24 post season,

00:16:35his,

00:16:36a back quality,

00:16:37because you know,

00:16:39the,

00:16:39one of the blessings is if you watch teams a lot and I get to,

00:16:42I see a lot of baseball,

00:16:43but obviously I see the Mets and Yankees the most is you could,

00:16:48if you fixate on it,

00:16:49how many times on this show before the numbers showed it was I,

00:16:53Ben Rice is just having good at bats,

00:16:54man.

00:16:55He's having good at bats.

00:16:56He's swinging at the right pitches.

00:16:58He's not afraid to get deep into account.

00:17:01He's not overwhelmed by lefties.

00:17:04Like everything you'd want was there except for the numbers.

00:17:08And I was just like,

00:17:09the numbers have got to follow this.

00:17:11And for a while,

00:17:13that was Austin Wells too.

00:17:15And that is not him anymore.

00:17:18He is,

00:17:19I don't expect a turning of the page positively because I'm not seeing good at bats.

00:17:26No.

00:17:27And like you said,

00:17:28the internal solution is not there right now with Ben Rice.

00:17:31You want to keep him what he's doing right now at first.

00:17:34Yeah.

00:17:34I wouldn't see a scare.

00:17:35I wouldn't create a problem solving a problem.

00:17:39Yeah.

00:17:39And I would,

00:17:39I would give a scare more,

00:17:41just more time.

00:17:41Just like see what,

00:17:42if you have something there,

00:17:43because if this continues to mount the way it's going right now,

00:17:47Joel,

00:17:47I'm sure they're going to try to address it at the trade deadline,

00:17:49but there's no automatic answer there either.

00:17:52Like you pointed out,

00:17:53Ryan,

00:17:53there's not many answers or solutions that you're going to find in the

00:17:56deadline.

00:17:56They're going to make an immediate impact.

00:17:57Like you would hope a catcher.

00:17:58The reason again,

00:17:59I'm picking on Wells here is just because there's a compounding effect right

00:18:03now with this lineup.

00:18:04It feels like Joel,

00:18:05it feels like obviously it's very top heavy with Rice judge and Bellinger right

00:18:10now.

00:18:10It's standing out.

00:18:11Dominguez going down with the injury.

00:18:13You're asking a ton out of the rookie and Spencer Jones's first time in

00:18:15major league action,

00:18:16but guys like Wells,

00:18:18you would hope have a step forward.

00:18:20And then when you look at the other guys in the lineup in Ryan McMahon and

00:18:25Trent Grisham,

00:18:27it's a third of your lineup,

00:18:28Joel,

00:18:28that's really a huge problem right now.

00:18:30So myth McMahon and Grisham,

00:18:33like they're not getting anything out of those guys right now either.

00:18:36So,

00:18:37so I think Grisham,

00:18:38so I think McMahon is a problem like offensively.

00:18:43And I think without opening a can of worms,

00:18:47but I'm happy to have the conversation is,

00:18:50when Caballero comes back,

00:18:54Volpe's at-back quality for whatever it's worth for three or four games has

00:18:59been pretty good.

00:19:01Are you a better team using Caballero,

00:19:05how you imagine using him and starting them four or five times a week,

00:19:09twice at shortstop,

00:19:11once where,

00:19:12where the third baseman are essentially him and Rosario.

00:19:14And maybe you defend late with McMahon and not worry if it's a lefty or

00:19:18righty starter.

00:19:20And Caballero gets a start in the outfield.

00:19:22Maybe there's a tough lefty.

00:19:23He gets a start for jazz and puts jazz on the bench,

00:19:26but like,

00:19:26I'm not taking away.

00:19:27I still think I would go back to Caballero at shortstop.

00:19:30I think he kind of earned something,

00:19:33but I just wonder if his best use is still as a four or five time a week guy

00:19:38start,

00:19:39definitely start against all the lefties.

00:19:41And when he's not starting,

00:19:42if it's a close game,

00:19:43he's going to get in the game anyway,

00:19:44because his speed is going to get them on the field or his defense is going

00:19:47to get them on the field.

00:19:49And if Volpe is going to have good at bats,

00:19:51you kind of lengthen the lineup that way.

00:19:53It's just,

00:19:53I don't really believe in Volpe,

00:19:55you know,

00:19:55like we've seen,

00:19:56we've lived the rollercoaster for a couple of years.

00:19:59And so I'm not going to let a kind of weekend of great at bats convince me.

00:20:03Weekend against the Mets,

00:20:04Joel?

00:20:04Yeah.

00:20:05A weekend of great at bats.

00:20:07Good.

00:20:08But against the Mets,

00:20:09the one thing I would say is it's against the Mets,

00:20:13but there's a lot of attention on these games.

00:20:16Like,

00:20:16like this is some,

00:20:17some really,

00:20:18and you know,

00:20:19like whether it's worth it or not,

00:20:21they weren't competitive pitches,

00:20:23but he didn't go flailing.

00:20:24He went from 0 and 2 to a RBI walk in that situation.

00:20:28It was,

00:20:29he had good at bats.

00:20:31I still don't think Caballero should lose his,

00:20:34his starting spot.

00:20:35But if I,

00:20:36I have a way to address McMahon a little bit in a way that I don't really

00:20:40have with Wells and I,

00:20:42and Caballero and Rosario are part of that.

00:20:45Sure.

00:20:46Like,

00:20:46can I just have McMahon against certain righties that I think he'd hit

00:20:51and,

00:20:51or,

00:20:51and late in the game,

00:20:52I put him into defended third and I move Caballero to short and I take

00:20:56Volpe off the field.

00:20:57Again,

00:20:57if I'm being ruthless and thinking about how I play a nine inning game like

00:21:02that,

00:21:02the Grisham one is I,

00:21:06I'm,

00:21:08I'm a little in the middle on it only because,

00:21:13uh,

00:21:14he is on pace to drive in 90 and walk 90 times.

00:21:19And if I had told you nothing else before the season,

00:21:22Ryan,

00:21:22except for Trent Grisham is going to walk 90 times and drive in 90 runs.

00:21:27What do you think?

00:21:28You go,

00:21:29Holy cow.

00:21:29Where do I sign up for that?

00:21:31So there's that the underlying numbers are still good to me.

00:21:34He's got two problems.

00:21:36He is way too passive in the waiting for the exact pitch.

00:21:42He wants to get to.

00:21:43He is Oh one Oh two one,

00:21:45two too much.

00:21:46And then he's looking at strike three an awful lot.

00:21:49Also in this complete search,

00:21:52like at some point you've got to abandon,

00:21:55especially with two strikes,

00:21:56you've got to abandon your strike zone discipline and make sure the at-bat

00:22:00extends a little bit.

00:22:01That's one.

00:22:01And number two,

00:22:02he's putting the ball.

00:22:04And again,

00:22:04it's not in front of me.

00:22:06So maybe the numbers would disprove this,

00:22:08but I feel like watching him,

00:22:10the ball is on the ground a lot.

00:22:12And his success last year was he was getting the ball in the air,

00:22:16especially at Yankee stadium.

00:22:17And that was real advantageous.

00:22:20Now,

00:22:21I think he's playing a much better center field this year.

00:22:24Defensively.

00:22:25Absolutely.

00:22:26Last year.

00:22:26I still think he's going to walk 90 times.

00:22:29He's going to drive in 75 plus runs.

00:22:33He has,

00:22:34even in the badness of this,

00:22:36he's had a lot of clutch hits again this year.

00:22:38He had a ton last year.

00:22:39So I know he's not afraid to play.

00:22:42And I know there'll be a lot of screams for keep Spencer Jones,

00:22:46bring Dominguez.

00:22:47I'm not quite sure that they're not getting enough.

00:22:51Like they're not getting enough from McMahon and Wells.

00:22:54I think if McMahon and Wells were both 93 OPS plus guys,

00:23:02we would look at Grisham a lot less,

00:23:04or maybe we wouldn't because like,

00:23:06we always have to find something to be miserable about.

00:23:08But like,

00:23:09I still think there are things in Grisham's profile as a player on both sides of the ball

00:23:15that is generally helpful.

00:23:18And,

00:23:19and with a chance,

00:23:21if the underlying numbers ever play.

00:23:23Right.

00:23:24But I think the only way,

00:23:25like this is where the metrics could fool you.

00:23:28Yeah.

00:23:28Because I think the underlying numbers show a guy,

00:23:34are different.

00:23:35If you watch him,

00:23:36he simply is being too passive on balls in the strike zone,

00:23:40hunting a perfect pitch to me.

00:23:42And the ball is on the ground too much when he makes contact.

00:23:46If he gets the,

00:23:47if he could get the ball back in the air,

00:23:49I still think he ends up a very useful player.

00:23:52And not,

00:23:54and I still,

00:23:54and I,

00:23:55and I think McMahon and Wells are bigger issues than Grisham.

00:23:59And,

00:23:59and this is always that confounding thing with me.

00:24:02Me also,

00:24:02right.

00:24:03Is there's a player I wouldn't have gotten included in the trade.

00:24:06I wouldn't have tendered him.

00:24:09I,

00:24:09you know,

00:24:09like there's all these things.

00:24:10I,

00:24:10he's not my cup of tea.

00:24:12Sure.

00:24:12I think,

00:24:12I think that there's an anger generally about Grisham because of the

00:24:17like kind of laconic style.

00:24:19And that gets mixed up with what he's actually producing.

00:24:22And if he walks 90 and drives in 90,

00:24:26that's a pretty good season almost no matter what else he does.

00:24:30And I think he's got a shot at it.

00:24:33Okay.

00:24:33So the Grisham thing,

00:24:35I,

00:24:36again,

00:24:37I hear you on the underlying metrics,

00:24:39but I also think there's no underlying metrics on RBIs and walks.

00:24:43He's on pace to walk and over 90 times and drive in over 90 runs.

00:24:48Those are real things.

00:24:49And like a lot of his walks are in front of rice and judge and walking in

00:24:54front of rice and judge is not an easy thing either.

00:24:56It feels like it's not been that way though,

00:24:58lately with him.

00:24:59Like I,

00:24:59like it feels like he's been kind of dropped in the order sometimes just

00:25:03because against the tough lefty,

00:25:04I get it.

00:25:05But I also think,

00:25:06I think you're kind of doing a little bit of damage to,

00:25:08to your lineup here with him leading off every game,

00:25:10because I just don't see it right now.

00:25:12In my opinion.

00:25:13So who does the lead off guy become in your world?

00:25:15I don't think they have it right now.

00:25:17Like you can't put in a lineup card without a lead off guy.

00:25:20A hundred percent.

00:25:21Somebody there.

00:25:22And against righties,

00:25:23I still think he's the right,

00:25:25right answer.

00:25:26Comparatively.

00:25:26I would argue you're better off putting it when Dominguez is healthy.

00:25:29I would put him at lead off and I would just write him in as a lead off guy

00:25:33every single day.

00:25:34Cause I think if,

00:25:36if,

00:25:36if Dominguez.

00:25:37And play Bellinger in center?

00:25:38And I would play Bellinger in center.

00:25:40Cause like you said,

00:25:40this is the,

00:25:41this is supposed to be the Yankees that don't give a crap about feelings and

00:25:44whatnot.

00:25:44Except for that,

00:25:46that Bellinger is the best left fielder in the majors.

00:25:51He has for a guy who has had some injury stuff in the past.

00:25:54He has stayed healthy in that spot.

00:25:56He's given like,

00:25:57it's a little like my rice thing.

00:25:59I'm just like to search for it,

00:26:01to fix something else.

00:26:03Am I creating a bigger problem to me?

00:26:05Rice and Bellinger are part of the success story of the 2026 Yankees right

00:26:10now.

00:26:11Bellinger.

00:26:11Or is he fully back to 2000?

00:26:14Was it 19 or 18 MVP with the Dodgers?

00:26:18Bellinger.

00:26:18Probably not quite there,

00:26:20there,

00:26:21but this is a get MVP down ballot guy like last year.

00:26:26And he's just a,

00:26:28you know,

00:26:28I think the comparison,

00:26:29I made it in print.

00:26:30I think I made it with you last week.

00:26:31He's very OG Ananobi to me.

00:26:33He just does a lot of really good things.

00:26:35There's nothing he's not good at on a field or a court.

00:26:38And I just,

00:26:39I don't want to fix one to create another problem and not,

00:26:45not,

00:26:45but not only create another problem,

00:26:47but like,

00:26:47like begin to hit at what is an asset.

00:26:50I mean,

00:26:50Bellinger and rice are two of the reasons with,

00:26:53with all the,

00:26:54this feels like it's going to be a 100% complaint show.

00:26:58The Yankees still have the second best record in the American league.

00:27:01But there's trends,

00:27:02Joel,

00:27:02that you're talking about that we're talking about here that are bad,

00:27:04really bad.

00:27:05They're really bad,

00:27:06but they're bad every year.

00:27:07Every team goes through it.

00:27:08The Dodgers just sucked for a while.

00:27:10They're still going to win 95 plus games.

00:27:13And I don't,

00:27:15this is part of the ebb and flow of the season and overreacting to it.

00:27:20And by the way,

00:27:20I'm agreeing with you.

00:27:21I think Wells is an issue.

00:27:23I think McMahon is an issue.

00:27:24I'm willing to have the Grisham conversation,

00:27:26but what I'm not willing to do is things are going great.

00:27:32It's these places.

00:27:33I'm now going to see if they continue to go great with those players.

00:27:38Rice,

00:27:39if I give them catching equipment and Bellinger,

00:27:40if I give them more physical stuff to do in the middle of the diamond,

00:27:45I don't,

00:27:46I don't want to do it.

00:27:48I just,

00:27:48I don't want to disrupt it.

00:27:53The things that are good that,

00:27:55that the reason that I haven't completely fallen off the earth with some of

00:27:59the real problems in the bullpen and some of the real problems in the

00:28:01length of the lineup.

00:28:02I don't want to mess with that.

00:28:04Okay.

00:28:05I hear you on that with the,

00:28:06with not messing with Bellinger.

00:28:07I agree with you on the rice thing I have from,

00:28:09from day one.

00:28:11I mean,

00:28:11it just feels unfortunate timing,

00:28:14right?

00:28:14Like the whole Dominguez injury.

00:28:15If he didn't get hurt and mind you,

00:28:17if you don't want to play him in center,

00:28:19there's a way around this.

00:28:20If you still want to keep Grisham in the lineup,

00:28:21I'd put,

00:28:22let's say in all scenarios here,

00:28:25Dominguez were healthy and Grisham were still playing.

00:28:28I'd move to make,

00:28:29I'd move Grisham down and I'd make Dominguez my DH.

00:28:32Cause we don't know when John Carl Stanton's coming back.

00:28:34I have a feeling like this could be a very long injury for him and he

00:28:38might not come back till July.

00:28:39I mean,

00:28:39he's not even running yet fully.

00:28:41So it's just,

00:28:42it's unfortunate timing for the Dominguez injury because I think that he was

00:28:45actually starting to hit and show some promises at the plate,

00:28:47maybe from the right side of the plate as well.

00:28:50I just,

00:28:51the solution is not there right now.

00:28:53I'd be interested to see if Spencer Jones can get more playing time just

00:28:56because you don't know what you have there yet.

00:28:58You want to see more from that.

00:28:59I think,

00:29:00I don't think,

00:29:01I don't think Trent Grisham is doing everything here.

00:29:03So that you would want.

00:29:04Look,

00:29:05if Spencer Jones went off for about the next 10 days,

00:29:09I,

00:29:10and you said to me,

00:29:11would you play Spencer Jones at the center field and put Grisham on the

00:29:14bench?

00:29:14I'd say,

00:29:15all right,

00:29:16like,

00:29:16let's have that discussion.

00:29:17I just don't want to move Bellinger there.

00:29:19I don't want to move Bellinger there.

00:29:20I don't want to move judge back there.

00:29:22Like,

00:29:23like I feel like you have the best left field,

00:29:26right field,

00:29:27corner outfield situation in the sport.

00:29:29Yeah.

00:29:29And center field is hard to find.

00:29:32Like,

00:29:33like keep in mind.

00:29:34I do think if the Yankees don't bring back Grisham,

00:29:37Luis Robert Jr.

00:29:38is their answer.

00:29:39Like these guys are hard to find.

00:29:42Center field is not a great position in the major leagues.

00:29:46It's not just the Yankees who are struggling at that position.

00:29:52And maybe,

00:29:53maybe it will be a younger player.

00:29:55I do wonder with say the way AJ Ewing and Carson Benger playing,

00:30:02that even when Robert Jr.

00:30:05comes back,

00:30:06is he definitely the everyday center fielder?

00:30:09And by the way,

00:30:09these guys keep playing like this,

00:30:10you talk about Stanton.

00:30:12I'll let's,

00:30:14let's play a little game.

00:30:15Who's that in the major leagues first?

00:30:17Stanton or Robert?

00:30:20I don't know.

00:30:22The Robert was very discouraging when Mendoza said this past week.

00:30:27Like calves.

00:30:28I know how calves heal.

00:30:30Backs are like mysteries.

00:30:33And,

00:30:34you know,

00:30:35it's,

00:30:35it was baked into the acquisition cost on Robert.

00:30:39You know,

00:30:39the Mets essentially gave up nothing except for to take on the 22 million.

00:30:44And because he's an often frustrating and often injured player.

00:30:49And that was baked into the white Sox.

00:30:52We're happy to get out of the 22 million for marginal return.

00:30:57And Robert,

00:30:58unfortunately for the Mets has played to one of the worst of his qualities,

00:31:01which is he doesn't.

00:31:02And by the way,

00:31:03we have to think about that as freaky as the last one was like Dominguez does

00:31:08have trouble staying on the field.

00:31:09He does.

00:31:10It's hard.

00:31:10Like if you want to make plans,

00:31:12it was a,

00:31:13can I sidetrack here quickly?

00:31:15Sure.

00:31:16So,

00:31:16so we were bullshitting with Steve Cohn on the bench.

00:31:21Maybe,

00:31:22maybe before game two,

00:31:23a couple of reporters.

00:31:24And he said something,

00:31:25we were talking about the loss of Alonzo and Nimmo to me.

00:31:30Like,

00:31:31I understand why the Mets did it.

00:31:34Cause it wasn't just a 2026 decision.

00:31:37It was a bigger picture decision.

00:31:38But when you move on from players with durability,

00:31:42you then realize,

00:31:44Oh,

00:31:44when you don't have durability,

00:31:46you got to figure out every day who's playing positions.

00:31:50One of the reasons the Yankees were a dynasty back in the Jeter Torrey era was Torrey was not an

00:31:58aggressive manager.

00:32:00And it was easy to be somewhat passive when you knew I write in Chino Martinez's name every day.

00:32:06I write in Derek Jeter's name every day.

00:32:07I write in Scott Brocious's name every day.

00:32:09I write in Paul O'Neill's name.

00:32:11I write in Bernie Williams name.

00:32:12Jorge Posada was like the most durable catcher in the sport.

00:32:14You write in his name.

00:32:15Well,

00:32:16I got to kind of worry about like a couple of positions.

00:32:20And it's not,

00:32:22you know,

00:32:22one of the blessings of the Derek Jeter era for the Yankees was you never had to know the name

00:32:26of the backup shortstop.

00:32:28The starting shortstop was playing 155 games.

00:32:30Who cares?

00:32:31Which Enrique Wilson to be named later was going to be the backup shortstop in those in that time.

00:32:37And when you and durability,

00:32:41the ability to get on the field is the most underappreciated vital thing in the sport.

00:32:47Go look at the games played right now for the Braves regular players.

00:32:53And I think they might be sitting with the best record in the major leagues.

00:32:57And part of it is like Olsen plays every day.

00:32:59Albies plays every day.

00:33:00Drake Baldwin plays every day.

00:33:02Austin Riley plays every day.

00:33:04Like the manager,

00:33:06Walt Weiss is the first year manager for them.

00:33:08He has a hundred things on his plate.

00:33:10About six positions on the field.

00:33:12He never has to think about.

00:33:14Yeah.

00:33:15And that's just a long way of saying at some point,

00:33:18Dominguez is going to have to show he's a guy who could stay healthy for about 160 straight days to

00:33:24kind of earn something.

00:33:26Yeah.

00:33:27I think obviously the UCL,

00:33:30his rookie year was really freakish.

00:33:33There's been freak.

00:33:34There's been freak.

00:33:35But there's people who get hurt even freak more than other people.

00:33:39Absolutely.

00:33:40No doubt.

00:33:40Stanton's definitely one of them too,

00:33:42by the way.

00:33:42Like he just unfortunately cannot stay healthy in the lower half of his body as well.

00:33:47It's that grinder moment,

00:33:49right?

00:33:49Like let's see what happens to Spencer Jones.

00:33:51Can he get more?

00:33:52Can he get something out of him?

00:33:53Volpe's still going to be playing.

00:33:54That's been pretty good over the weekend.

00:33:55I thought so too.

00:33:56So I would just love to see him.

00:33:57I thought him and Volpe,

00:33:58like if you were looking for,

00:33:59I know this is not going to be a silver lining show.

00:34:02I know the Yankees lose two out of three.

00:34:04Yankee fan Ryan Samson isn't going to be happy.

00:34:06But I thought Volpe took a good at bats.

00:34:09And I thought Spencer Jones,

00:34:10unfortunately one of the really,

00:34:11really good at bats,

00:34:12he hurt Clay Holmes.

00:34:13Yeah.

00:34:14Which I feel I,

00:34:16I do think Clay Holmes is a good dude.

00:34:19And he was having a really,

00:34:21really good year in what could be a walk year for him because he could opt out of it at

00:34:26the end of the year.

00:34:27And he was the Mets best,

00:34:29most consistent player from day one.

00:34:31Like ultimately Soto will be better than him.

00:34:33Lindor will be better.

00:34:33But in this specific quarter of the season,

00:34:36he was their best player.

00:34:38And it was kind of a,

00:34:39and can I just dovetail up that real quickly by saying it's part of the problem of the Yankees losing

00:34:44the last two games.

00:34:46I've done this a long time,

00:34:47Ryan and I don't know if I've ever been around a team that was more defeated,

00:34:56despondent and resolved to bad things than the Mets were Friday night and Saturday morning before the second game.

00:35:03It felt like,

00:35:04you know,

00:35:05I don't really love cliches,

00:35:06but it felt like the straw that broke the camel's back when Holmes got hurt,

00:35:10where it was just like,

00:35:12like I've known Carlos Mendoza a long time.

00:35:15You know,

00:35:16he's from the Aaron Boone school.

00:35:17Of I could explain to you why a wilted rose is beautiful.

00:35:23And he was.

00:35:26He felt like he had taken the body blow that was going to not allow him to get up like

00:35:31I could figure out how to get through Soto.

00:35:33I could figure out how to get through Lindor,

00:35:35Palanca,

00:35:35Robert,

00:35:36not this guy,

00:35:37not how it happened,

00:35:38not like now when the starting pitching feels like the way we could get back into this race and that

00:35:45the Yankees let that team off.

00:35:47The Matt Matt is really let's give credit where it's due credit to the Mets for deep breath and finding

00:35:58the way to win those last two games.

00:36:01But the Yankees had a team that was pretty close to mentally to me checking out.

00:36:07This is not usually what you see in me from a baseball team.

00:36:10But I saw in that clubhouse and the words and the body language and the facial expressions were we are

00:36:19just about checked out of this thing.

00:36:20And the Yankees breathed life into the Red Sox last year by going into Fenway and getting and there was

00:36:27a short period I think where they lost like six out of seven to Boston just as their season was

00:36:33taking the bad U-turn it takes almost every year before they get it back together.

00:36:37And maybe they're doing that now again.

00:36:40And maybe they just breathe some life and they need to be careful over the next couple of days whether

00:36:44they breathe some life into the Blue Jays.

00:36:46Yeah, it's Toronto.

00:36:47Yeah, you know, it's it was interesting is Juan Soto was really, really struggling.

00:36:52And then the day before the Yankee series started, Soto perked up and then he was good over the weekend.

00:36:59Vladimir Guerrero Jr. was really, really struggling.

00:37:01And then yesterday he had a big day and, you know, there's nothing Vladimir Guerrero likes to do better than

00:37:07torture the Yankees.

00:37:08And he's come in for three days.

00:37:09And so, hey, you know, this is the season.

00:37:12It's a grind.

00:37:14And they they're in a terrible period.

00:37:16This was a really unacceptable road trip on a multiple levels.

00:37:21They just went two and seven.

00:37:22And they have a moment back in the place where they play best Yankee Stadium.

00:37:27Their team is built for this.

00:37:30And at some, you know, they could deliver a really nobody gets knocked out at this point, but they could

00:37:36really hurt the Blue Jays or they could really hurt themselves and help the Blue Jays over the next three

00:37:40days.

00:37:41Yeah, no doubt.

00:37:42This is again.

00:37:43These is why they play the games.

00:37:44We're going to see the results here.

00:37:46But I will say that turning point, Joel, was definitely in the, I think, seventh inning when the bases loaded,

00:37:51nobody out.

00:37:51And the Yankees just go one, two, three, a couple strikeouts, then a ground out.

00:37:55And it's like, that was your chance to really blow this game and get it blown wide open and get

00:38:00back into it.

00:38:01I think it was way before then.

00:38:03Okay.

00:38:04I mean, it was Carlos Rodon.

00:38:06Rodon throwing the ball past.

00:38:07Let's get into Rodon here.

00:38:09It's Carlos Rodon is in total control of the game.

00:38:12Uh, and Luis Torrens, he ends up striking out, but he fouls off four or five, two strike pitches.

00:38:20He has a 10 pitch at bat.

00:38:21At that point, Rodon has gone through the Mets lineup one through nine, allowed one hit thrown 50 pitches, though,

00:38:2910 of them to Torrens.

00:38:31And at that point, he felt like a guy who was spent.

00:38:36And now, to me, is that a guy working back off a surgery and that, is he in fully good

00:38:46shape?

00:38:47Is it that?

00:38:48Like, what happened there?

00:38:49Because he just lost control of the ball and, in some ways, control of the game for the Yankees.

00:38:57Because, again, the Mets' head was down.

00:39:01This is, you know, you just keep throwing strikes.

00:39:05He failed to do that.

00:39:06He gave up a hit.

00:39:07Then he walked a couple.

00:39:08Then he threw the terrible wild pitch.

00:39:11And, to me, like—

00:39:14He doesn't throw to contact, Joel.

00:39:15Like, you said this—

00:39:17It was bad Carlos Rodon.

00:39:19When we see bad Carlos Rodon, like, everyone will look back and say, well, you know, doesn't give up a

00:39:24lot of hits.

00:39:25And I'm like, yeah, but the walks count.

00:39:26The bad counts count.

00:39:27The wild pitch counts.

00:39:28It all counts.

00:39:29And that was not good.

00:39:31And they're going to obviously—he's not being—I know that there'll be—because, again, I have friends who are Yankee fans who

00:39:37are already—shouldn't Rodon go to the bullpen?

00:39:39And I'm like—

00:39:40No, no.

00:39:41And I'm like, Rodon is in the rotation.

00:39:45And, you know, he's going to need to be supported until he builds back.

00:39:48And the Yankees are going to have to hope that what he builds back to is what he has been

00:39:51the last two years, which is really, really a good starter who's given them a lot of good quality length.

00:39:56Is this part of a process?

00:39:59Or, you know, like, has he lost a little something post-surgery?

00:40:02Like, these are—there's a question around him.

00:40:08And even in the two years where he pitched well, you know, like, I think the first year always is

00:40:12going to make people go, Carlos Rodon, do I really trust that?

00:40:15Do I?

00:40:16And so I felt like the first thread that was lost in that game was post the—Torrens had the best—one

00:40:24of the best at-bats I've ever seen for—that ended in a strikeout, that ended in a strikeout, and that

00:40:30had meaning moving forward.

00:40:32He really—that's your ninth-place hitter, really taking something out of the starting pitcher.

00:40:36I thought it was a hell of an at-bat.

00:40:38Yeah, I—look, Rodon is definitely frustrating these first two starts because I think for me, I always think back to

00:40:45when you first talked to me about him.

00:40:47He doesn't pitch to contact in situations.

00:40:49He tries to go for the strikeout too much.

00:40:51I felt like that's exactly what he was trying to do.

00:40:53I know he lost gas against—against Torrens in that inning.

00:40:57But, like, I just wish he would pitch more to contact.

00:41:00Like, get the ground out.

00:41:01Let your defense that's actually pretty solid behind you make some plays.

00:41:05Yep. Can I—can I throw in one other thing?

00:41:08I do think that—and this is so Monday morning quarterbacking.

00:41:13I want to say this because I didn't—I have a rule, right?

00:41:17And if I don't think of it while the game is happening in real time, I don't write it because

00:41:22I don't think it's fair that they have to make the decisions in real time.

00:41:26Like, I should be locked in the game as well.

00:41:29Sure.

00:41:29And if I don't think of it in real time, I won't write it.

00:41:32But as I thought about it afterwards, if I know Carlos Rodon and I see double right after the 10

00:41:40pitch at bat, either Wells and or Blake should go out and give him a little breath and say,

00:41:47Hey, two outs, one on.

00:41:50Take a deep breath here, man.

00:41:52Like, like, I think he's facing Bichette in that situation.

00:41:56Let's not get to Soto here.

00:41:58Make sure Bichette hits the ball someplace.

00:42:00I'd rather Bichette hit a two-run homer than walk.

00:42:02Make sure—take a deep breath.

00:42:05Bichette's kind of, like, in a bad place right now.

00:42:08You can attack him and get an out.

00:42:11You can't walk him.

00:42:12And to me, I felt like veteran pitching coach, veteran catcher, but also veteran rider.

00:42:18I should have thought of it in real time.

00:42:20I didn't think of it in real time.

00:42:21But in retrospect, I was like, that would have been a good moment to just go out to emotional Carlos

00:42:28Rodon, maybe a little tired Carlos Rodon, and say,

00:42:32Hey, man, deep breath.

00:42:34You got 30 seconds here until the umpire comes up on my back.

00:42:36Sure.

00:42:39It's—it was not a good outing for him.

00:42:41Let's go to the rest of the rotation—not the rest of the rotation, but just the max freedom of this

00:42:45all.

00:42:46You know, we hear about the bone bruise in the elbow after we get the diagnosis of it.

00:42:50Short-term, long-term, Joel, what do you think, like, how this will impact them?

00:42:54I know Garrett Cole's probably, like, what, two weeks away.

00:42:58It feels like they can absorb the blow.

00:43:00I thought, you know, yesterday you got a better outing compared to the first two from the rookie and Elmer

00:43:07Rodriguez.

00:43:07But how does this Yankees rotation take the blow of Max Fried, who's been one of the best pitchers in

00:43:13baseball the last year and a half?

00:43:15Yeah, let's even say that.

00:43:17You know, like, I actually thought within the context of the game that Boone, you know, managed a good game.

00:43:24He went and got Cruz to make sure that—is it Rodriguez or Cruz now?

00:43:29It's Elmer Rodriguez.

00:43:30Rodriguez, right?

00:43:33So he wouldn't face Soto the third time.

00:43:35He brought in Yarbrough, Yarbrough got Soto.

00:43:36So, like, he was very aggressive in this game.

00:43:38Again, he did the line change in the sixth inning.

00:43:40I thought he did a good job.

00:43:45Yeah, look, if the Yankees and Fried are to be believed, this is—his ligament is sound, and this is a

00:43:55repetitive kind of motion injury.

00:43:57He did have the biggest workload of his career last year.

00:44:01And if all things being equal, that the Yankee rotation remains a strength while Fried is absent, it's never good

00:44:11not to have Max Fried in your rotation if you're paying him.

00:44:16But there might be a blessing if this is a month, six weeks, and sometime late June, early July, he

00:44:24resurfaces, and he gives you the last three months fully healthy.

00:44:29Because I do think this is an area they have depth and quality.

00:44:33But, you know, now the next injury, which almost certainly will come, becomes a little more troubling, right?

00:44:44Because Fried is so good.

00:44:46Yeah.

00:44:47Like, who will that injury be?

00:44:48How long will they be gone?

00:44:50Like, you're not getting out of Dodge alive, pretty much.

00:44:53You're going to usually have multiple pitching injuries, and you hope that you kind of, like, the one you have

00:44:59is, like, just as Fried comes back, that's when it's an injury and it's, like, it's a hamstring.

00:45:06It's not an elbow or something like that, you know?

00:45:09You say that all the time.

00:45:10You're like, it always works itself out, and I can't believe it's going to work itself out again.

00:45:14That's why, like, I get what we do.

00:45:17We're a content machine.

00:45:18We're going to talk about content of, oh, what's going to happen if, but we almost never get to the

00:45:24if.

00:45:25And that big if for me, Joel, is the Garrett Cole, Max Free together in one rotation.

00:45:32We still haven't seen it yet.

00:45:33Like, we just want that.

00:45:35You know, it's a little bit like, I think it was two turns through the rotation ever that the Mets

00:45:43got the five starters.

00:45:44You know, when it was Mets, Wheeler, Syndergaard, Harvey, and DeGrom.

00:45:48Harvey, DeGrom.

00:45:49Two times.

00:45:50Two rotation turns.

00:45:51That's, hey, if we could only get to that.

00:45:53Well, you know what the thing is?

00:45:54You're not.

00:45:55You're not.

00:45:56And even some of the stuff is, like, when is DeMing is coming back?

00:46:01When he's back, are the other three outfielders going to be healthy?

00:46:04What's going on with Spencer Jones?

00:46:06Like, I get it.

00:46:07I know what we're doing here.

00:46:09But, like, most of this stuff resolves itself.

00:46:13Like, it did to some degree with Volpe in Caballero just played well enough.

00:46:19Played well.

00:46:19There was no other decision.

00:46:21No.

00:46:21There was no other decision.

00:46:22And, by the way, like, for the next few days, if Volpe plays really well against Toronto after a really

00:46:28good series against the Mets,

00:46:30he might, like, it might be, like, what I said, hey, what if we just use Caballero how we expected

00:46:37to, which is play him a ton, but do it this way, and that's how you get McManow.

00:46:41I just think through performance, non-performance, and injury, most stuff answers itself.

00:46:47Yeah, and then one thing with Garrett Cole is, yes, in his rehab start two days ago, you know, we

00:46:53saw him touch 99, I saw, or was it Friday?

00:46:56But, like, got the gas, Joel.

00:46:59Looks like he's looking pretty damn good.

00:47:01So I do – I talk to Cole quite a lot in spring training.

00:47:06We talked about Justin Verlander at an advanced age, came back from Tommy John, and won the Cy Young, and

00:47:15defeated the usual stuff that comes with the post-Tommy John,

00:47:23which is your arm feels great, but you kind of lose a little command that it takes, like, about a

00:47:27year to kind of, like, your arm feels great, but you've lost that thing.

00:47:32I think as much as possible, you know, like Cole played with Verlander, he's – as much thought and science

00:47:40you could put into something that's unpredictable, he's been trying to do –

00:47:46to know Garrett Cole is to know there might be people who think about pitching as much as him, but

00:47:51nobody thinks about pitching more than him.

00:47:53And I think he is trying with this rehab to be – because I think there's no doubt he could

00:48:02have pitched earlier than this in the major leagues.

00:48:06And I think he is – the calculus is, one, hey, if we're in the postseason, I want to make

00:48:13sure I can make three to five starts in the postseason.

00:48:16So let's count backwards. Like, if I think I got 20 starts in me, let's make it 15 in the

00:48:21regular season and five in the postseason, something like that.

00:48:24Kind of like Otani last year, who clearly could have pitched in April and May and didn't pitch till June.

00:48:29So I think that that's part of the calculus here.

00:48:32But I also think part of the calculus is let me work out some kinks down here.

00:48:38Because the Yankees and him keep using interesting language, and I'm very attuned.

00:48:45Like, I try to actually listen to what people say because it's very revealing.

00:48:49And there's been times in this rehab where they say today is the day he's going to try to be

00:48:54competitive.

00:48:55In other words, like he's going to try to pitch like the game is on the line.

00:48:59And then there have been times he's like, no, he's out there, touch, feel, working on stuff.

00:49:05And I think that he's done the right thing.

00:49:09He's used his rehab to work on both his mindset.

00:49:13Okay, today's game day.

00:49:14What would that look like if I have to go?

00:49:16And also like, hey, this is double A, and I've got to win games in the major leagues at the

00:49:21highest level.

00:49:22I'm using today to be like, how locked in on my picket breaking ball can I be on my chain,

00:49:28whatever.

00:49:29And using it in situations he would never use it in a game.

00:49:33So I think there's a lot of thought that has gone into this rehab.

00:49:38And I think he's trying very, very hard to defy some of the bugaboos that go with post-Tommy John

00:49:46return to major league pitching.

00:49:48And I'm fascinated to see his pitching hunger and pitching brain put to this test and see if he actually

00:49:57can defy it.

00:49:59Because, you know, like if he's Garrett Cole, there's so many ifs here.

00:50:03But if he's Garrett Cole and Schlittler is going to pitch like the AL Cy Young winner, you know, it's

00:50:08a pretty strong one-two to begin any series in a regular season or a post-season.

00:50:13No doubt.

00:50:14No doubt, Joel.

00:50:16It was crazy seeing Garrett Cole, the pictures beforehand, four shots of espresso in his Starbucks cup, just down to

00:50:21that before.

00:50:24It's different levels.

00:50:26I promise, no brandy.

00:50:28It's all good.

00:50:31Different levels for different people, man.

00:50:33That's a lot of caffeine.

00:50:35Joel, let's talk about this bullpen.

00:50:36Look, Bednar hangs the curveball.

00:50:39I read what you wrote there.

00:50:41That was really interesting.

00:50:42The fact that he's been burnt on that first pitch curveball now twice.

00:50:46And the fact that they probably opposing teams are doing the scouting report and how he's trying to get that

00:50:51first pitch strike and potentially using the curveball in that first pitch.

00:50:55So talk to me about Bednar and also just the question marks that are surrounding him.

00:51:00And the Yankees are blowing a couple of leads here.

00:51:02They gave up a couple of walk-off wins here in the last week.

00:51:05This bullpen that we were concerned about has really reared its ugly head this last week.

00:51:11Yeah, so there's a lot there to unbundle.

00:51:15I'll give my friend and podcast partner, John Heyman, credit.

00:51:20He has consistently said since spring training that Bednar is a setup man and not a closer.

00:51:26I think there's some John Wetland in him, if you remember.

00:51:29I mean, John Wetland was a high-wire closer, and he landed most of the planes, crossed the wire, whatever

00:51:37tortured analogy you'd like here.

00:51:40You know, but like in 1995, Buck Showalter stopped using him in the postseason because he just lost belief in

00:51:46him.

00:51:47And in 1996, I think he went 7-for-7 in closing games.

00:51:51He won the World Series MVP.

00:51:53I think he got a save in all four Yankee wins.

00:51:55And so like could Bednar be that kind of guy?

00:52:00Maybe.

00:52:00I think they probably need better.

00:52:02The question is better in the house.

00:52:06Is it Ryan Weathers at some point?

00:52:08Is it Carlos Legraje at some point?

00:52:11That's a lot to ask.

00:52:12Neither guy has real experience pitching late, but they obviously have big arms.

00:52:18So there's that.

00:52:20I think you saw it.

00:52:21You mentioned thank you because you read the column a few times.

00:52:23If we were sitting and making a list today of the best relievers we think will be traded in July,

00:52:29just based on where the Red Sox are now, they look like a team that would sell.

00:52:33Aroldis Chapman has been kind of great for the Red Sox the last year plus.

00:52:37He's probably a trade candidate if this continues.

00:52:42I know the Yankees found a way to kiss and make up with Marcus Stroman.

00:52:46I just don't think they'll ever kiss and make up with Aroldis Chapman.

00:52:49I don't.

00:52:50Or that he would ever want to come back here.

00:52:52Or he really, I think, by the end, hated it here.

00:52:55Why would the Red Sox help the Yankees ever?

00:52:57And why would the Red Sox help?

00:52:58They made a few more moves than you kind of like.

00:53:01Elmer Rodriguez.

00:53:02Yes.

00:53:03But they'd probably want Elmer Rodriguez back if they're Chapman.

00:53:07So there's that.

00:53:11Big picture.

00:53:12I always try to encourage Yankee fans like yourself.

00:53:15Don't be myopic.

00:53:16Look around the league.

00:53:17There are not a lot of good bullpens.

00:53:19The Yankees are part of a systemic problem that's come from how we use pitchers in this sport, which is

00:53:28starters don't go deep.

00:53:29And we turn day after day to guys.

00:53:32And we ask three or four guys to be really good every day.

00:53:36And the chances of guys who are relievers to start with because they don't have command or they don't have

00:53:43multiple pitches to be good.

00:53:45And four of them to be good in any day or three of them to be good is not great.

00:53:50And if you go down in quality at all, it gets worse and worse.

00:53:54Or you have a couple of injuries, it gets worse.

00:53:56I do think the Yankees have this problem.

00:54:01It's a trust issue.

00:54:04And I thought about it a lot over the weekend.

00:54:08So three failed.

00:54:09Three.

00:54:11We we think of the Yankees as ruthless this year.

00:54:13But the reality is the Mets have three pitchers on their staff or they did until Holmes got hurt who

00:54:19Aaron Boone removed this closer.

00:54:22So like he had been ruthless before.

00:54:25The problem now is if you remove Bednar.

00:54:27Say you thought like, hey, you know what?

00:54:29I think Bednar is better in the eighth than the ninth.

00:54:31Are you letting the hell you put in the ninth?

00:54:34So that's the problem.

00:54:35It's like like when he removed Chapman, say he had Holmes.

00:54:40Right.

00:54:40When he removed Holmes, he had Weaver.

00:54:42When he removed Williams, he had Weaver.

00:54:47Yeah.

00:54:47When he removed Weaver, he had Bednar.

00:54:50Bednar.

00:54:51Like there is not the obvious, oh, if you look left.

00:54:56And there's just a lot of breath holding with all of these guys.

00:55:02The overall statistics on players like Hedrick, Bird, Cruz are good.

00:55:14But it's not the feeling you get when you watch them pitch.

00:55:18You did until about a week ago, until this road trip, Hedrick was doing great.

00:55:23The question was, is that the best month that that he's ever going to have as a reliever?

00:55:29Was he overused in that four to six weeks because he was pitching well?

00:55:35Well, the only guy who is really trustworthy because he's never going to change his identity is Hill.

00:55:41Tim Hill, yeah.

00:55:42No, he's going to throw the ball.

00:55:45And like even yesterday, like he loses on a ground ball to the middle infield.

00:55:50You know, if they don't run into each other, is Schumann able to make a play?

00:55:54I don't know.

00:55:55Is it Volpe's ball?

00:55:56Is it Schumann's ball?

00:55:57Whose ball is that?

00:55:58I think that's Schumann's ball because he's on his forehand.

00:56:01I agree.

00:56:01You know, and would have momentum coming towards the plate.

00:56:04But that's obviously not.

00:56:05Can you imagine how much do you practice infield in five infielders?

00:56:09Like you do have to give some grace someplace.

00:56:12And like you understand why both guys are devilishly going after the ball.

00:56:15You can't make an assumption there or have a priority list.

00:56:20Hey, you go in front.

00:56:20I go in back kind of thing.

00:56:22So I think that's kind of like bad luck where the ground ball goes.

00:56:27But I think Tim Hill is who he is.

00:56:30Yeah.

00:56:30He's not going to walk you.

00:56:31He's not going to give up a homer.

00:56:33The ball's going to be on the ground a lot.

00:56:34Does it find holes or not?

00:56:36He's the one guy I would say, yeah, I'm fine.

00:56:39He's a lefty in my bullpen.

00:56:42You know, Cruz is incredibly talented.

00:56:45It's too much ball one, ball two.

00:56:48DeVal's incredibly talented.

00:56:49But like he clearly there is a concentration issue there about how he throws, remembering that there's base runners, remembering

00:56:59that there's a pitch clock that feels very untrustworthy to me.

00:57:03You know, is Hedrick had just a bad week or did we just see his best month and it's not

00:57:08coming back?

00:57:09And the problem is, like, if not them, who?

00:57:13And so they've got to kind of solve it with this group.

00:57:15Uh, and I don't know if they could solve it with this group.

00:57:20And I don't think they're going to fold starters into relievers this soon into the season because you're always just

00:57:26one injury away from needing Lagrange in your rotation or to keep going with weathers.

00:57:31That is a August-September thing.

00:57:34So you would say that's the timeline on pulling that lever, not in the next month?

00:57:38Yeah, like, would you, like, like, we just saw how quickly something could go bad with Max Fried.

00:57:43Do you not want the option of, it's worse not to have a starter than not to have a reliever.

00:57:49And so I think you have to run four months of the season with all your guys as starters.

00:57:55And then for the stretch run, think about putting a guy in the bullpen.

00:58:01Can I, can I ask you a question here?

00:58:03So this is like the internal, right?

00:58:04The politics of how you'd want to make these levers pull and stuff.

00:58:07Let's say if you did say Lagrange, we really love his velocity and we understand he's a starter, but we're

00:58:12converting him to the reliever here just for this year because we're all in on this year.

00:58:15Couldn't you pivot and take a Yarbrough or take a Blackburn, convert them into a starter?

00:58:21If another starter goes down, hey, we're going to stretch you out now.

00:58:24Like, you're getting a run here the next two, three weeks until we get other starters back.

00:58:28And now we're going to keep building you up.

00:58:30Bring up Lagrange because that power is going to play more into the bullpen for us in the back end.

00:58:35Feels like there's a pivot there because right now in their current situation, Blackburn and Yarbrough have not performed well

00:58:40in those spots that they've been asked to be put into the game.

00:58:44So I think that Blackburn and Yarbrough were signed as placeholders, not as, I think if we had.

00:58:53Not like six, seven starters.

00:58:55Yeah.

00:58:56Well, as six, seven starters for a period of time.

00:59:00Right.

00:59:00Till Rodon and Cole return.

00:59:02And again, maybe till the all-star break.

00:59:06I think if we had Brian Cashman and his guys here on Truth Sermon said, on the day you signed

00:59:12Yarbrough and the day you signed Blackburn, did you envision they'd be guys who are on your roster on September

00:59:191st?

00:59:19I think they'd say, in the best light, no.

00:59:23Like we know we're paying them $2 million each to help us survive a period of time because the worst

00:59:30thing that can happen to you is not to have starting pitching available.

00:59:33Now they've survived most of that period of time because Rodon is back and Cole is close, but they've lost

00:59:39free.

00:59:39And you just, like there's still a lot of season to go.

00:59:43100%.

00:59:44I don't want to give up your depth yet.

00:59:46And to me, you don't want to change LeGranje yet because I just think once you do, you don't, like,

00:59:53you do have to deal with this reality, Brian.

00:59:56He might not be good at it.

00:59:58Like what if he's not good at it?

01:00:00Now you turn around and say, okay, now go back to being a starter.

01:00:03Am I putting him at risk of injury?

01:00:05I do want to build up his innings because he might be in my rotation next year.

01:00:10And so, like, I want to get to 100, 110 innings with him as a starting pitcher this year so

01:00:16that this, it's just, I'm following a traditional road here.

01:00:20If you go back and, like, look, there's a, I think the Brewers would tell you that the team they

01:00:26thought had the best chance to win the World Series of this current group was in 2020 when they had

01:00:33Peralta, Woodruff, and Burns in the bullpen.

01:00:38It's 2019, someplace in there.

01:00:40I think they lose to the Dodgers in seven games.

01:00:43And they had converted them all, but it was late.

01:00:47And I think that that is the model for the Yankees is if I was looking at a team, it

01:00:52would be those guys.

01:00:53And, like, now we're attacking with our, we're playing tournament baseball.

01:00:58Who are our 13 best arms?

01:01:00We're putting them on the staff.

01:01:01That feels like an August 1st on decision.

01:01:04That it's not good for the overall health of the organization if you start changing starters into relievers on May

01:01:1118th.

01:01:11I think that is a mistake.

01:01:14And also, like, it fits a little into the rice catching or Bellinger in center field.

01:01:19To chase success in a place I'm having a problem, I'm going to remove a strength.

01:01:25Right?

01:01:26Nothing.

01:01:27A.J. Hinch said this to me in spring training, and I have cited it often.

01:01:32We ask less of starting pitchers than ever before.

01:01:36And so you think they matter less until you run out.

01:01:40And then, because, like, in some ways, his Detroit team just spent about two weeks, and we saw it in

01:01:47the Mets series, having run out.

01:01:48They only had two really healthy starters.

01:01:51And now they got Mize back over the weekend.

01:01:53I think they're going to get Melton back soon.

01:01:55I think Verlander after that.

01:01:56They're going to get closer to Hull.

01:01:58But the point is, like, when you don't have that, and so I think they'll hold on to Yarbrough and

01:02:04Blackburn a little longer.

01:02:05They'll keep their starter starters a little longer.

01:02:08And they're going to ask these relief pitchers, which used to be their strength, that they could fix these kind

01:02:14of players.

01:02:15Those last two years, it hasn't manifested like it did for about a 10-year period for them, where they've

01:02:20really, really did great of finding guys on the margin and turning them into Tim Hill and Clay Holmes and

01:02:27Jake Cousins and a bunch of guys who really, really helped them over Luke Weaver, who helped them over a

01:02:33period of time.

01:02:33I think that they're going to have to solve it with this group.

01:02:36And, by the way, Ryan, it's tenuous.

01:02:39They're going to lose some games because of it.

01:02:42And the question is, this was a bad road trip.

01:02:44If their bullpen had just been a little below average, on this road trip, they'd go four and five.

01:02:51Four and five.

01:02:52You and I are having a different conversation.

01:02:54If the bullpen is good, they might go five and four or six and three.

01:02:58The bullpen is the reason they went two and seven pretty much on this road trip.

01:03:02Like, it was an F for the bullpen.

01:03:06If it was a C-, you and I would be doing a different show today.

01:03:10100%.

01:03:11So, the question is, do you believe this bullpen is an F or it could be a C, maybe?

01:03:17Like, I think they think they could hold on at C.

01:03:21Okay.

01:03:21Letter C for a couple of months here.

01:03:29And then they know they're going to have to find one or two in the marketplace and turn one or

01:03:34two starters into relief pitchers.

01:03:38But I think the most – I think it's just dangerous to begin to hit at your starting pitching depth

01:03:44with 110 games left in the season.

01:03:48Fair enough.

01:03:49It just – it's interesting that those pieces are there.

01:03:52You've got to avoid emotional decisions.

01:03:55Totally.

01:03:56Like, an emotional decision is just put Bellinger in center field.

01:03:59Just put Rice behind the plate.

01:04:01Just turn a starter into a reliever.

01:04:02There's a – it's an emotional decision to say, I'm in third place in the marathon at mile five and

01:04:09begin to sprint.

01:04:10And now you're in first place, but now you have 19 miles left in the marathon, and what do you

01:04:16have left?

01:04:17And so, like you do, there's a lot of noise now.

01:04:21We create some of it by doing stuff like this.

01:04:23And you have to be able to fight off the noise about what's really important.

01:04:28Like, it's really important that Cody Bellinger has a great year and Ben Rice has a great year.

01:04:32And starting pitching remains a strength.

01:04:34And it's my job as an organization to self-help and make some of the weaknesses better internally until July

01:04:4331st – I think it's August 3rd this year, actually, the trade deadline – to August 3rd when I could

01:04:48really do something externally.

01:04:52I am looking forward to this marathon continuing on, Joel.

01:04:56For Joel's notebook, quick, little birdie told me that you're going to have a certain Yankees pitcher on the show

01:05:01today.

01:05:01I just wanted to know, like, what are you most looking forward to getting out of that?

01:05:06Because this will go – this Pinchstripe post will air before the show, and I'm just interested to hear, what

01:05:11are you most excited to talk about said pitcher – with said pitcher, I should say?

01:05:15So, we're doing this beforehand.

01:05:18So, like, I might say this, and he might oversleep or forget about us, so I'm always concerned.

01:05:23But Cam Schlittler is supposed to join us – join me and John this week.

01:05:29I find him really interesting.

01:05:33I think – I've had this conversation with a lot of people in the last 10 days is where I

01:05:39could just say, I really think he's much sharper than everybody thinks he is.

01:05:43Like, because I think he comes off as a little bit, like, modern, like, macho and braggy and a little

01:05:51goofy.

01:05:52And I think he's in on the joke.

01:05:56I think he's a sharp kid.

01:06:00It would suggest to learn so many new pitches that there's a sharpness to him.

01:06:08And I don't know.

01:06:09I have lots of stuff I want to ask him.

01:06:11I mean, I talk to him with some regularity because I do find him interesting.

01:06:17But just, like, maybe where it comes from, like, he has met every challenge.

01:06:22Yeah.

01:06:23I wrote about this after the game on Friday night when you and I were probably looking at doing a

01:06:27different kind of show after the game on Friday night.

01:06:30But, like, if you think about – you're a Yankee fan, Ryan, right?

01:06:34Like, what's your boxes that has to be checked?

01:06:38Well, first of all, you have to be good, just generally good.

01:06:40But then, like, within good, you better be able to go up to Fenway and win a game, right?

01:06:46Like, be able to, like, handle that.

01:06:48All right.

01:06:49Check.

01:06:50You better be able to really rise in October and, like, put the team on your back.

01:06:56Like, Orlando Hernandez isn't going to the Hall of Fame, but he's a Yankee Hall of Famer because you could

01:07:03give that dude the ball and he could put your team on its back.

01:07:06So, Schlittler, as a rookie, check.

01:07:11Probably third on the list is, hey, if you're playing the Mets during the regular season, I'd rather not deal

01:07:17with my knucklehead friend who's a Met fan and have to take crap, right?

01:07:21So, you'd want him to be able to pitch well against the Mets.

01:07:24Well, Friday night, he was the dominant force in the game.

01:07:27And so, there goes a check.

01:07:31And we've reached a point.

01:07:32You know, he's getting close to almost a full season of pitching now.

01:07:36He's up in about the mid-20s in starts.

01:07:38It's as good as anybody in the Live Bowl era has ever pitched for 25-ish starts for the Yankees

01:07:44ever.

01:07:48It's pretty impressive.

01:07:50I think we've moved beyond the potential that it's a fluke.

01:07:54You know how health is.

01:07:56You know how health is for pitchers.

01:07:58You know how health is for pitchers who throw as hard as Cam Schlittler.

01:08:01So, you're always – there's always some breath-holding.

01:08:04But can I say selfishly that I hope Nolan McClain and Cam Schlittler figure out a way to stay healthy

01:08:11for a really long time?

01:08:12Oh, yes.

01:08:13Because when I go to the ballpark, I kind of want it to be fun and interesting or historic, like

01:08:20whatever thing.

01:08:22And when McClain and Schlittler pitch, it's fun.

01:08:25It's a treat.

01:08:26It's interesting.

01:08:27Both of them are starting to touch some history of their teams and such, like best starts through so many

01:08:35games.

01:08:35You know, for the Mets, that's really something when you consider the Seavers and the Kuzmans and the DeGroms and

01:08:41Goodens.

01:08:42Goodens, yeah.

01:08:43You know, like what McClain is doing.

01:08:44So, it's just – I don't know.

01:08:46I like – I hate injuries.

01:08:48Yeah.

01:08:48And I want to – you know, I hate it in all sports.

01:08:52Like, I want – you know, the Knicks series starts Tuesday night.

01:08:57I hope Ananobi's healthy enough to play.

01:09:00But here's the thing also.

01:09:00I hope none of the players on Cleveland get hurt.

01:09:03I want to see the best play – I always want to see the best play in anything I'm watching

01:09:10or covering.

01:09:11And so, I hope they – those two guys have kind of come along out of no place.

01:09:16You know, McClain, I had some buzz, but he still was a second-round draft choice who was a two

01:09:21-way player.

01:09:22What's he going to do?

01:09:24I mean, he's really good.

01:09:26And, I mean, Schlittler is just like came out of nowhere pretty much.

01:09:29It's really – they're great stories.

01:09:31And I'm a – hopefully, I'm a story guy.

01:09:33And I hope they both figure out ways to stay healthy and, you know, every five days bring some electricity

01:09:38to their teams.

01:09:40No doubt.

01:09:41With Cam, it just – it's so easy, the velocity he throws with.

01:09:44And he's such a big kid.

01:09:45You look at him.

01:09:46He's so big and massive.

01:09:48He has a good presence on the mound – great presence on the mound, I should say.

01:09:53And, look, you know, again, relievers are relievers for a specific reason.

01:09:57If you could start, you would start.

01:09:58There's a lot more money and prestige starting.

01:10:02Oftentimes, you're a reliever because you have some command issues.

01:10:06Like, one of Schlittler's issues, like, early as a starter with the Yankees was legs, a lot of pitches, walking

01:10:13guys.

01:10:13Like, now, he's like, well, until somebody proves that they can hit the ball, I'm going to throw it over

01:10:20the plate.

01:10:22And so far, it's really hard to hit him even when it's over the plate.

01:10:26Yeah.

01:10:27And he doesn't walk many batters either, which is also fun.

01:10:29Not a lot of walks.

01:10:30Not a lot of homers.

01:10:32It's hard.

01:10:33If you don't walk guys and you don't give up homers, it's – obviously, he did it at the highest

01:10:38level possible.

01:10:38But it's the Mariano Rivera thing.

01:10:40Yeah.

01:10:41It's the Jacob deGrom, Greg Maddox thing.

01:10:43Yeah.

01:10:44Like, good luck trying to get three singles before I get three outs with this stuff.

01:10:50Joel, we're looking forward to that conversation later.

01:10:52And, as always, we appreciate you hopping on here, talking Yankees baseball.

01:10:56We'll see how it goes against Toronto.

01:10:57And we're looking forward to catching up with you next week, man.

01:11:00All right, Ryan.

01:11:01All the best.

01:11:01Thanks for watching, everybody.

Yankees Have Some Big Concerns after losing Subway Series | PInstripe Post

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