00:00India's foremost constitutional expert and former Attorney General, Mukul Rohadgi, joins me now.
00:06Mr. Rohadgi, when a party emerges as the single largest party with 108 seats, well ahead of DMKs 59 and
00:14AIA DMKs 47,
00:17shouldn't constitutional convention require the governor to first invite the TVK to form the government
00:24and prove its majority on the floor of the House, why insist on pre-certified numbers before even extending an
00:32invitation
00:33when, sir, past precedents have repeatedly favoured giving the single largest party the first shot?
00:42I think, Maria, you have answered the question yourself.
00:44So, it's very, very clear that the constitutional norms require a governor to call the leader of the largest party
00:56and in this case, the Mr. Vijay's party is very clear and close to the finishing line itself.
01:06He is only 10 short of a majority of about 118 and 119.
01:15Where is the doubt of calling him as opposed to somebody else?
01:20He should have been called, he should have been given about a week's time
01:25to prove his majority on the floor of the House.
01:28Please note and remember that the constitution requires that the litmus test is on the floor of the House.
01:37It is not on the floor of Raj Gavan.
01:41I can give you three instances in the last 20 years where I have appeared in three cases in the
01:47Supreme Court.
01:48The first case related to Jharkhand, where the Supreme Court directed a floor test
01:55and that too should be videographed with all that.
01:58The second case was the staking of claim by Mr. Shivaraj Chauhan for the MP Assembly.
02:06That happened sometime in 2020.
02:11I remember it was just one day short of the declaration of COVID in India.
02:19That also the Supreme Court said, have a floor test.
02:23That's the only way to know who is having a majority.
02:26And the third example to my mind is I appeared for Mr. Yenru Rappah's government in the year 2018.
02:34There, there was a dispute.
02:36The Congress was saying that we should have been invited.
02:39BJP was saying that we should have been invited.
02:41So there was a tussle.
02:42In that tussle, the governor called Mr. Yenru Rappah and the Supreme Court, because of the tussle,
02:50gave him one day's time to prove his majority.
02:53But this is not a case of a tussle.
02:55There is no other contestant.
02:57This man is at the finishing line.
02:59So where is the question of any other contestant?
03:02And he has got five more for good measure.
03:05That is Congress.
03:06All he needs is another five or six in a house of 234 or something.
03:11Where is the problem?
03:12So that brings me to my next question, Mr. Rohadgi.
03:15So is the governor, by refusing to call Vijay,
03:19and then sources are indicating that he is emphasizing on stability
03:23rather than rushing to ensure that there is a new government,
03:26is he then, is the governor then, despite TVK being the clear front runner
03:31and claiming support, stretching his constitutional discretion beyond its limits?
03:39Constitutional discretion has to be exercised in the norms,
03:44under the norms of the constitution and the constitutional ethos that democracy must rule.
03:51The governor is not a democracy in that sense.
03:56The democracy is the mandate of the people.
03:58The mandate of the people must be honored and the governor should not place any obstacle.
04:04As I told you, the governor is not an alter ego of the house.
04:10Whether Mr. Vijay can prove it or not prove it, whether he can provide a stable government or not,
04:16is all dependent on the house and the decision of the house and the privilege of the members.
04:25That is the sovereign because they represent the sovereign and the sovereign is the public
04:30which has voted in and thrown out parties who have been ruling the state for 60 years.
04:36Yes, absolutely.
04:37Mr. Rohadgi, you have spoken about the shared mandate.
04:41Yes, please, sir. Go ahead. Continue.
04:43According to me, there is no doubt that the government's action is misdirected.
04:49I will not say anything more.
04:51It is an action which is misdirected.
04:54The earlier he amends his action and call Mr. Vijay, the better it will be.
04:59And please understand, there would be uncertainty otherwise if you don't call for a proper government
05:07at the earliest or a person to stake his claim at the earliest.
05:11You have made an important point here, sir, given the scale of the mandate.
05:15Because TVK has delivered the biggest political disruption Tamil Nadu has seen in decades
05:20breaking the traditional Dravidian binary and emerging as the single largest party.
05:25So, Mr. Rohadgi, if despite that mandate and reported support from the Congress party and others,
05:32the governor still insists on documentary proof before even allowing a flow test,
05:40does that then risk creating the perception of political bias?
05:44No, I would not pitch it as political bias.
05:48It could well be a situation where he honestly believes that he has to get all 118 numbers before him
05:57and he is actually mistaking his position as an alter ego of the Assembly.
06:03That could well be an honest decision.
06:05It could be wrong.
06:07I mean, he would be well advised to take legal advice from proper quarters
06:11and, you know, finish off this uncertainty, remove this impromptu and five days have already gone.
06:21It is not appropriate to keep this issue in dimbo.
06:24He should tell Mr. Vijay, you come along tomorrow and prove your majority by Wednesday or Thursday
06:30and be done with it.
06:31That's what he should do.
06:32And what message does that send to voters who clearly made TVK the dominant force in the Assembly?
06:39Yeah, see, it is very important because we can't forget that it is the sovereign.
06:44The public is the sovereign.
06:46That's right.
06:46Neither the governor nor anybody else, even the persons who are chosen,
06:52they are servants of the people.
06:55The people say that this party should be in power and that must be respected at all costs.
07:02No other person is higher than the public.
07:05That's the sovereign, that's the democracy and that's the norms of this country.
07:11And as a constitutional expert, Mr. Ruhadgi, would you advise the governor to immediately invite the single largest party?
07:16And what will you be telling actor Vijay?
07:18Because there are reports coming in that he is also exploring legal options.
07:23Well, the governor has not asked me, but if he was to ask me, I would tell him what I
07:28have told you.
07:29As far as Mr. Vijay is concerned, he has the right to go to court, but I don't think he
07:35should rush.
07:36Just now, maybe the governor will amend his position in a day or two.
07:40The courts also take time.
07:42Why create an impromptu?
07:43If it can't be solved by Monday, then of course, I think that Mr. Vijay will be well advised to
07:49move the Supreme Court.
07:50My last couple of questions, Mr. Ruhadgi.
07:52At a larger level, how do we ensure governors function as neutral constitutional umpires
07:57and not as gatekeepers who can potentially stall the rise of a new political force, despite a strong public mandate?
08:05See, it all depends on the caliber of the person holding the post.
08:12It is meant to be a high constitutional post under the constitution.
08:16The person who mans the post must rise to the occasion.
08:19We have had cases where governors have become partisan, but I don't think that the current governor has shown any
08:30partisanship.
08:31It is not proper to blame him.
08:33It's a very, very high post and he seems to be a person of some substance and of a particular
08:39level.
08:40So maybe he will reconsider his stand in view of legal advice and this ugly issue can come to an
08:46end in new areas.
08:48All right, Mr. Mukul Ruhadgi, pleasure speaking to you.
08:50Thank you so much.
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