00:05Thank you very much there. I'm joined now by Karthi Chidhamram. Karthi Chidhamram of course
00:11is Bharatiya, is the Congress MP from Tamil Nadu. Appreciate you joining us there, Karthi Chidhamram.
00:19My first question to you, is the Congress giving unconditional support to Vijay? We are being told
00:26that you have made it very clear, you are only giving him support if he stays away from communal
00:32elements. I want to understand, is this conditional or unconditional support to Vijay?
00:37It's clearly conditional. It's conditional on the kind of allies he brings to the table.
00:43We do not want anybody who is communal and who doesn't believe in the constitutional and secular
00:50values of India. Let's be very clear. Are you telling me that if Vijay, for example, brings
00:58the AIDMK, which had aligned in the election with the BJP, will you be part of such a government?
01:04Are you willing to give outside support or you want to be in government and have power sharing?
01:10No, we are in for the whole hog now. We are in for support and participation. But I do not
01:15know
01:16on what terms or what conditions the AIDMK wants to come out. Is it the whole of AIDMK coming
01:22or a faction of the AIDMK breaking away? I don't know. So that's all not in my purview
01:27at all. So I don't know. We only react to it when that happens. But we are very clear
01:30that we would want this government to be stable and secular.
01:34How do you create a stable government? Please tell me. Vijay has 107 MLAs. Congress has 5.
01:425. That becomes 112 in a 234 member assembly. Vijay has still not given or told us at least
01:49or told even the governor which parties exactly will support him. If it is small parties like
01:54VCK and a couple of aadas, it only adds barely to 180 just over the halfway mark. How will
02:00you create a stable government? Is this simply the Congress looking to somehow get back into
02:05power in Tamil Nadu after 50 years? See, how he cobbles up the numbers is really
02:12up to the TVK. They are in pole position and they must reach out to political parties as they
02:17reached out to us. There are other political parties there. The DCK is there. The Communist
02:21Party is there. The DMDK is there. There are many smaller political parties on both sides
02:28in both other formations. It's up to him to reach out to them and to come to some understanding.
02:33So, we are not doing this only for power. Let's be very clear. The mandate of the people is for
02:37change. People have voted for a change. They want a government which is not led by either the DMK or
02:44the ADMK, the two political parties which have been heading governments for the last 60 years.
02:49They want the government to be headed by Vijay. They want the government to be headed by the TVK.
02:53But they have also put a caveat. They have said that while they want the government to be headed
02:57by Vijay, they want him to go out and get a few other political parties to aid and assist him.
03:02They have not given him a mandate by himself. And he is doing, he is respecting that mandate
03:06and reaching out to political parties. He has reached out to us formally. So, we are extending
03:11our support. So, now he needs to reach out to other political parties. I believe he has.
03:15Now, they need to respond and then we will see how things unfold.
03:18No, but the DMK says you backstabbed them. Look, the fact is...
03:21One minute, Mr. Chidhamram. You've got a situation where the DMK has been your partner for the last
03:27two decades. You've got a situation where MK Stalin endorsed Rahul Gandhi as the Prime Minister
03:32candidate for 2024. He said we are brothers. Suddenly, you are backstabbing your brother?
03:38Let me explain this. It's a very harsh criticism. You know, there are pre-poll alliances and if none of
03:47the pre-poll alliances get a working majority on their own, you have to explore other options to
03:52form a working majority. This happens in all parliamentary democracy. You are very familiar
03:57of these things which happen in Germany, in Belgium, in Netherlands. If we had deprived the DMK
04:03of forming a government because we moved out, that would be called backstabbing. But DMK is not in any
04:08position to form government. We are not depriving the DMK of anything. Yes, we fought the elections with
04:13the DMK. We fought the elections wholeheartedly with the DMK. But the people have given a very
04:18clear mandate. The mandate is for change. The mandate is for which I will lead a government
04:22with the aid and assistance of other parties. We are only respecting the mandate. We are not
04:26depriving the DMK of anything. If we had deprived the DMK of forming a government, then that would
04:31be called backstabbing. Now we are not depriving the DMK of anything.
04:34Mr. Chidhamram, you went into this election with the DMK. You all went in an alliance with them.
04:39Now you are ditching your ally, whether you like it or not, your so-called India alliance partner,
04:45because you are scenting power with TVK. That is the argument that the DMK is giving,
04:51that the Congress at the slightest scent of power is leaving us.
04:55Everybody sticks to that pre-pol alliance position. We'll never have a government in Tamil Nadu
05:00because the DMK doesn't have 118 with its allies. The ATMK doesn't have 118 with its allies.
05:05TVK doesn't have 118 with its allies because it had no allies. So we cannot form a government.
05:10So are you suggesting that we should negate the verdict of the people of Tamil Nadu and go back
05:14to elections because nobody's been able to have a pre-pol working alliance? You're trying to create
05:19a working alliance. This happens in Europe all the time, particularly the Green Party. Every time
05:23after an election, they go out and join a formation with some common program. We'll come to some
05:29understanding with the TVK, like a couple of other parties will also do.
05:33Is it not true that before the election, there were attempts also made by the TNCC Congress
05:37readers to ally with Vijay, that Rahul Gandhi was also in favor of this, but the older generation,
05:43including your father, were the ones who vetoed it. Is that true or not, that in hindsight,
05:48you got it horribly wrong?
05:50Everybody's a genius in hindsight, Rajdeep. So let me explain this. Yes, there were many options
05:57before us, before the election. Few of us voiced our opinion publicly. Some spoke privately.
06:04All options were evaluated by the AICC leadership. Every MLA and MP was personally spoken to.
06:11Every AICC functionary was personally spoken to. And many, many district-level leaders were
06:17also consulted. AICC took the input of everybody, then came to a consensual decision of continuing
06:24the existing alliance. At that time, there was no trigger to walk out of the alliance.
06:28Is it true that the likes of Mr. P. Chidamram opposed the alliance, yes or no?
06:33Many people had many opinions. All opinions were taken into account to somehow to say one person...
06:38Do you regret it? Do you regret not going with it?
06:41Listen to me. Hear me out. Hear me out. If one person had thrust the decision, which was unpopular
06:46on the rank and file of the party, 1996 would have happened. Narsim Rao thrust the decision on the
06:51Congress party in 1996. He wanted an alliance with the ADMK, which the Congress rank and file
06:56did not want. They broke away and that they formed a TMC. I was part of it. I cut my
07:00teeth in the
07:01formation of TMC. But that did not happen.
07:03That is Tamil Manila Congress, not Trinamul Congress. But go ahead.
07:07Yes, I mean, that's for your viewers. For me, TMC is Tamil Manila Congress.
07:10Then, in fact, when we negotiated with the DMK, everybody was clamoring for more seats.
07:14When seats were... Numbers were agreed upon, everybody was clamoring for specific constituencies.
07:19When specific constituencies were being talked about, they wanted specific candidates in
07:25constituencies. So, the whole party was very much into the whole thing. Somehow to say one
07:31person or two people or some people of a certain age took the decision as wrong. It was a decision
07:36taken by everybody. Even post that, we had a Rajsepa member. We had a Rajsepa member elected
07:40by that alliance as well in the previous SNB. So, we were whole hog into it. Yes, we evaluated
07:45all of them.
07:46So, you're saying the decision to not go along with Vijay was not taken unilaterally. There
07:51was a broad consensus. You all took every opinion into account. You say that in hindsight,
07:57maybe, I ask you very spare, a short answer. Do you agree that you might have been better
08:02off going with Vijay? And if you do go along with him now, will this be a permanent alliance
08:06or a short-term alliance only to get into power?
08:10As our letter clearly says, we are looking at a long-term relationship. But as I also
08:15said, it's not just for power. We are respecting the mandate of the people of Tamil Nadu. People
08:20of Tamil Nadu have voted for change, but they want the change to be led by Vijay with the
08:24aid and assistance of other parties, which are also secular. And that's what we are doing.
08:29We are not just doing it. Of course, if there is an opportunity for the Congress Party to
08:34participate in government, of course, we'll take it. We are going to participate in that.
08:37But we are also respecting. The fundamental point is we are respecting the mandate of the
08:41people. And we are not backstabbing the DMK because we are not depriving the DMK of anything.
08:46One final question. Is your real aim to keep the BJP out? There's talk that the BJP would
08:52also in some way want to control what happens in Tamil Nadu. And that's why y'all have moved so
08:59fast for once to give a letter of support. Yes, that is one of our primary reasons of moving so
09:06swiftly is because we want to make sure that the new government is secular. You're making an
09:11important point. You feared that the BJP would reach out to Vijay before they could use done it.
09:15They don't have the numbers themselves. No, they would have used the AIDMK. They would have used
09:22proxies and we didn't want that situation. But most importantly, TVK reached out to us.
09:27Please, let's be very clear. TVK is the one who is seeking our support. And we are responding
09:32to that in a responsible manner, respecting the mandate of the people of Tamil Nadu.
09:36Okay, you keep saying you're respecting the mandate of the people of Tamil Nadu. Congress
09:42got five seats, remember, in alliance with DMK. And Vijay has got 107. So we'll see how
09:48this all plays out. Vijay, interestingly, I can tell you, Mr. Chidambaram seems to be keeping all
09:53his options open. He's already proving to be a bit of a consummate politician.
09:59I mean, I'm sure he'll grow into the role.
10:02Are you surprised by his victory? Honestly, did you ever anticipate 100 plus?
10:08I had a certain percentage in mind. He exceeded that percentage. I thought that eventually,
10:13his campaign will not have the momentum and surge. He proved me wrong by having momentum and surge.
10:19And also, he's rewritten the rules of campaign in Tamil Nadu. This was a candidate agnostic election.
10:25He did about seven concert-style roadshows, hardly addressed the press, used social media very
10:31extensively. Most importantly, what I learned from this election is that micro-campaigning within
10:36households seems to work, which he's definitely leveraged. I've learned that from this election.
10:41Okay. I'm going to leave it there. Karthi Chidambaram there speaking here to India today. Thank you very
10:46much, saying that the primary aim of the Congress to ally with Vijay is to apparently keep out communal
10:53elements from the new Tamil Nadu government. Which way will Vijay go? We'll wait and see. For now,
11:01back to the studio.
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