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00:00Good job by the Cavaliers last night.
00:01Thanks in part, and actually basically thanks only to Donovan Mitchell
00:07and James Harden, who basically did all the work in the fourth quarter
00:11for the Wine and Gold to get them an all-important win.
00:14As they inch closer to that number three seed,
00:18we're going to get into just how much things shift
00:25as far as the Eastern Conference.
00:26It's Kate Cunningham, of course, the collapsed lung for the Detroit Pistons.
00:30Awful news there, but the Boston Celtics with the chance
00:34to take over the Eastern Conference, number one seed there,
00:37and I don't know, maybe that flushes the strategy here down the drain
00:41for the Cavaliers of just locking themselves into that number four spot
00:45so they can potentially set up a second-round matchup with the Pistons.
00:50Worst-case scenario, Nick, they could end up with a second-round matchup
00:55against the Boston Celtics, and I don't think anyone wants that.
00:58Listen, you're going to have to play—I don't really care who you play.
01:02If it's the Toronto Raptors in round one,
01:04you're going to have to play a more sound 48 minutes
01:08than what they just played last night.
01:10Like, you can't bank on Harden and Mitchell,
01:13and you heard Atkinson there in the open saying that it's nice
01:16to have two superstars that can bail you out,
01:19talking about Harden and Mitchell.
01:21Right.
01:21Yeah, but I need a little bit more of a balance showing,
01:24especially against teams that you're supposed to beat.
01:27You're supposed to beat the Pelicans.
01:29If you get the Toronto Raptors in round one,
01:32that should be a little bit of a tune-up series for the Cavaliers,
01:36especially because they haven't been healthy,
01:38and that might be a little bit of working on the fly,
01:41adjusting on the fly, coaching on the fly for Kenny Atkinson
01:45as he tries to maneuver all of these pieces and parts together.
01:49So, you know, for me, like, to look at the playoff seating and brackets
01:53and trying to pick which side that I want the Cavs to come out on,
01:57it's like, man, I want to see them start playing better basketball
02:00night in and night out for an entire 48-minute time frame
02:04because there was a time last night they were down 10, 12 points.
02:07I was like, are you really about to go down to the Pelicans like this?
02:11And thankfully, Mitchell and Harden saved the day at the end,
02:14but we've seen that in the NBA postseason too many times
02:17with these Cavaliers, Daryl, where they just expect to get bailed out
02:21by Donovan Mitchell.
02:22Donovan Mitchell could give you 40 in the playoffs
02:25and you still lose those games,
02:27so you need a much more balanced effort from everybody.
02:30It kind of reminded me of the good old days there with LeBron James
02:34where you just give him the ball in the fourth quarter
02:36and everyone just gets out of the way,
02:38and LeBron does pretty much everything by himself.
02:43And I'm not saying that's what happened last night,
02:45but it sure felt like that.
02:48Kenny Atkinson had said after the game,
02:50hey, it's nice having two superstars,
02:52obviously referring to his backcourt of Mitchell and Harden.
02:58Yeah, I thought we had four superstars.
03:00Whatever happened to that?
03:02Yeah, I don't know.
03:03Are we still calling it the core four?
03:05I mean, you did swap one piece for a, you know,
03:09is it still the core four?
03:11Where is Evan Mobley factor into this?
03:14Now that Ramona Shelburne's reporting that the Milwaukee Bucks
03:17would like him in a Giannis, is that a fellow superstar?
03:21Well, I mean, that's really the only player I think
03:24that the Bucks would really want anyway
03:28in return for a potential Giannis trading.
03:31Sounds like either Mobley or Vijay Edgecombe,
03:34who's on the rookie that's playing pretty well for the 76ers.
03:37That's what the Milwaukee Bucks have on their wish list
03:41for Giannis this summer.
03:44So Mobley, probably time to wake up.
03:47Well, the Giannis talk is starting to heat up again.
03:50I would say even more so for the Cavs.
03:53It felt like going into the trade deadline,
03:56the Cavs were on the periphery of that particular conversation
03:59as maybe like a dark horse to sneak in and get him
04:03before they ultimately decided just to go the rest of the way standing pat.
04:08But, you know, he is 31 years old.
04:11We had, you know, filling in with Ken on the morning show Friday.
04:16We had Danny Cunningham on, and he made a very good point
04:21about Giannis being 31 years old,
04:24consistently dealing with those soft tissue injuries.
04:26Do you really want to give up Evan Mobley
04:30and shorten your window?
04:33Now, the argument is, hey, the window's the window,
04:36and when it's, you know, cracked open,
04:38you've got to be all in to try and cash in on that window.
04:43But, you know, again, Giannis will be 31 years old here
04:47and, you know, been dealing with all these injuries in recent years.
04:53Whereas, knock on wood, for the most part,
04:56you know, Mobley's been able to stay healthy,
05:00hasn't had that, again, knock on wood,
05:02that major, major injury to keep him out massive amounts of seasons,
05:08like we unfortunately have seen with Giannis here in recent years.
05:12But, Giannis knows what it takes to get it done in the playoffs.
05:16He has an NBA championship on the resume.
05:19But, I think that depending on what happens in April and May,
05:25and I'm not going to say June,
05:26even though I still have the Cavs making the NBA Finals,
05:33I'm not as confident as I was, I don't know,
05:37like a week or two after the James Harden trade.
05:39You don't sound very enthusiastic about that pick today.
05:42Yeah, I'm not, well, I'm feeling about as good as,
05:44I'm feeling as good about that prediction as I am about my bracket right now.
05:48So, a little nervous when it comes to the Cavaliers.
05:53Joe Gabriel, Cavs.com, going to join us at 11.
05:56So, don't miss that.
05:57Get an inside look at what's going on with the wine and gold.
06:00And, you know, can they get healthy?
06:03Like, that's another element to this whole thing.
06:06I was quick, I'll admit, to vote off the island there,
06:11the core four Jared Allen.
06:12I thought he'd be the first player to go.
06:16And the longer he's out, man,
06:18the more you really understand his value to this team.
06:25And, I will admit, maybe, you know, I love Jared Allen.
06:30I think he's a great player.
06:32I just, you know, it's not a big man's game these days.
06:35It's a run up and down the floor and chuck a bunch of threes.
06:38And, hopefully, you make more than the team you're playing that night.
06:42And, that's really what the game is.
06:44But, I think they miss him right now.
06:46Do they not?
06:47Oh, 100%.
06:47Like, I think if you had Jared Allen against the Pelicans,
06:50you're probably not sweating out a fourth quarter in late March.
06:54Like, here we are again, you know,
06:56having Mitchell and Harden kind of overexert themselves in the usage department
07:00just because you're needing them to be Superman and Batman combined
07:06because that's all you got.
07:09You're not getting big-time contributions from Mobley.
07:12And, when Harden and Allen were healthy together,
07:17it at least looked like they found something.
07:19So, I think they miss J.A. right now.
07:21But, dude, you look at this.
07:22You got 11 games to figure this out.
07:25Like, I would not want to be Kenny Atkinson this week.
07:28And, we're about eight days away, nine days away.
07:32Wasn't it Donovan Mitchell last year that said we could go 82-0
07:36and nobody would care?
07:37It's about how we play in April.
07:39We're eight days away from April.
07:42How are the Cavaliers playing?
07:44Well, they've won three in a row.
07:45That's the good news.
07:46The NBA is very much a wins and losses business
07:49and they're finding ways to win these games.
07:51But, when you're actually sitting down and watching them
07:54with your own two eyes, you see plenty of room for improvement
07:57and you see plenty of those same effort concerns
08:00that we've had in the postseason with this group
08:03over the last few seasons.
08:05So, I really hope they use this.
08:07You know, they've got one of those mini West Coast trips
08:09and we hear all the time that teams will use that.
08:13You know, March 30th in Utah, March 31 in LA, April 2nd in Golden State.
08:19Teams will use those stretches to get away and grow together as a collective
08:23and it's really about team chemistry and team morale.
08:27Well, a great time for that is the playoffs are going to be starting
08:30the third week in April.
08:31And, right now, the Cavs are at least winning games,
08:33but I wouldn't really say they're playing great basketball.
08:36No, they're not.
08:38The other night, they almost upchucked a 29-point lead,
08:41able to hang on down the stretch.
08:43James Harden had said after the game in his interview with Serena Winters
08:46that, hey, yeah, great to get out of here with a win,
08:49but it wasn't good enough.
08:51And he kind of called out Mobley, too.
08:52He's like, yeah, Mobley played great.
08:53He could have had more.
08:55And I like that attitude from James.
08:57And maybe that's some of, you know, he had that ball hog label
09:00when he got traded.
09:01But maybe some of that could be a good thing for some of these younger players
09:05on the roster.
09:06Like, Mobley had it going, and then he just shies away.
09:10So, don't shy away.
09:11No, be assertive.
09:13Assert yourself.
09:14Put the ball in the basket.
09:15Be the Evan Mobley that we want you to be.
09:18And it kind of felt like Harden just called him out with Serena on the floor
09:21where he's like, yeah, felt like he could have had more than the 29 points
09:25that he had.
09:26Yeah, I think that Evan's caught between a rock and a hard place
09:29at times as well because he's not the number one.
09:34And he probably would never be the number one on a team
09:38with Donovan Mitchell and James Harden.
09:40There's only number one.
09:42There's only one basketball.
09:43Right.
09:44And so, I think that that might be something he continues to struggle with
09:49as far as trying to pick his spots when he needs to assert himself
09:55on the floor, right?
09:56When he needs to take over the game.
09:59Because the nice thing is you have four players that are capable
10:04of taking over a game.
10:05Jared Allen can take over a game.
10:07Mobley can take over a game.
10:08We know Harden and Mitchell both can take over the game, right?
10:10But it's finding that balance of, all right, it's my night.
10:16I got this.
10:17And I think that that's something that Mobley continues to struggle with.
10:22I know it's the game.
10:24I've talked about this quite a bit, how much I just hate watching
10:28Evan Mobley shoot three-pointers.
10:33I, again, admit I'm a little old school.
10:35I don't want my seven-footers on the perimeter shooting threes.
10:38I understand the philosophy behind it, but that doesn't mean that I have to like it.
10:43And I don't like it.
10:45I just, I am a believer you let the big guys go do what they do,
10:50and that's dominate inside.
10:53And you can force, by doing that, you can force other teams to play your style
10:58of basketball instead of you just get into these consistent, constant,
11:04three-point shootouts that we see every day.
11:06It feels like they're having Mobley do it.
11:08It's like the old thing, everybody else is doing it, so we got to do it.
11:12Where you want them to say, no, we've got two seven-footers, that's our strength.
11:17You play our style, but not we're conforming to what the other 29 NBA clubs are doing.
11:23And among my concerns with the Cavaliers is the fact that I don't want it to be a situation
11:33where it ends up being a hot or not type of night from beyond the three-point arc.
11:41You see that so many times, and we've seen that in a couple losses for the Cavaliers.
11:46The reason why they ultimately ended up losing the game was they got outshot behind the arc.
11:51It just wasn't falling from the perimeter, and that happens.
11:56But you don't want that just to be the end-all, be-all to how your offense runs.
12:02If the three is falling, you're in good shape.
12:04If not, because you've got to come off that at times.
12:06If it's not falling, someone's got to step up and say, hey, guys, three-point ball's not falling right now.
12:12Let's go inside.
12:14We've got the advantage.
12:15Let's use it.
12:16Instead of just running up and down the floor, chucking the threes, the way you see them doing that.
12:21To that point, I want to give you one thing.
12:23And when the Harden trade went down, there was about 48 hours worth of speculation that it was close,
12:31and that they were really talking to the Clippers, and that a Harden-for-Garland trade could happen.
12:37When the name Harden Cavs started to come along and percolate,
12:42and we were thinking about what that meant for the playoff picture and for the playoff race,
12:46one game popped into my mind, Daryl, and it was the 2018 Western Conference Finals, Game 7,
12:53when the Houston Rockets and James Harden missed 27 consecutive threes, and they just kept shooting them.
13:01And it was like, you haven't made, you've shot 26 threes in a row, and you haven't made one.
13:07Don't shoot a 27th.
13:08They shot a 27th, and the Warriors ultimately win that game to face our Cavs
13:14in what would become the last Cavs-Warriors NBA Finals in the four straight trips to the finals with LeBron
13:20here.
13:21That game played in my head, like, you need somebody to be a leader in that moment and say,
13:28hey, the threes aren't falling, we have to try something different.
13:31And the Cavs are showing you that on nights that they're shooting a lot of threes and they're not going
13:35in,
13:36they let this happen.
13:37They would let 27 consecutive missed three-pointers happen, unfortunately.
13:41You getting a little nervous about the Cav leaders come playoff time?
13:44We're almost there.
13:47It's March 22nd.
13:48So I'm not nervous, but I think I've gotten hip to the whole larger picture that people have feared
13:58that the Cavs are on a timeline right now to win an NBA championship.
14:04I think that was made certain by the James Harden trade.
14:08I think my current fear is that Evan Mobley doesn't fit that timeline.
14:14I think we're counting on a 24-year-old rising star.
14:19I would still call Mobley an ascending prospect in the NBA world.
14:24I wouldn't call him a prospect.
14:26Come on.
14:26I mean, he's one defensive player of the year.
14:28Yeah, but we know what that was with Lemby.
14:30He's been an all-star.
14:31But he's still ascending.
14:33I wouldn't call Evan Mobley right now a superstar.
14:36No.
14:37Because he's not even a consistent NBA all-star.
14:40And I don't know that Kenny Atkinson is calling him a superstar.
14:45And prospect probably wasn't fit, but he's an ascending star.
14:50Yeah, an ascending star.
14:52But right now, when you're in a championship-winning mode,
14:56who was the last ascending star that actually got the job done?
15:00Kawhi Leonard was an ascending star with the San Antonio Spurs, but he had—
15:06Jim Duncan did it.
15:07Tim Duncan.
15:09Right, but now we're talking about that was decades ago.
15:13You know, so I just fear—I hope they've got enough.
15:17And I think when you just look at rosters, if you print out the Cavs roster
15:22and compare it to Boston or Detroit or New York—
15:26Is Shea Gilchis Alexander with a thunder?
15:29Yeah, was an ascending star, but he was the league MVP last year.
15:33But I'm saying he ascended to league MVP and ultimately winning an NBA championship.
15:39I just hope—
15:40Listen, you asked the question.
15:41I'm just giving you the answers.
15:42And you are.
15:43You are.
15:44But I'm just expressing my fear is I hope they've got enough.
15:48And I think when you print out the rosters and you compare the Cavs—
15:51The Cavs are deep.
15:52And the Cavs got a good starting five with the two guards in Mitchell and Harden
15:57and the two bigs in Mobley and Allen.
15:59But then off the bench, you've got the shooting with Merrill and Wade.
16:03And if you want to play Jalen Tyson,
16:05you've got enough dudes when you just print out the rosters and you compare them to Boston and New York
16:11and what they've got.
16:13But I fear when we're talking about the NBA playoffs, we always find ourselves talking about who are the guys
16:19that are going to rise to the occasion.
16:21I know Mitchell's going to play well, and I'm pretty sure that James Harden's going to play well.
16:25Because when Harden gets to the playoffs, he has a knack to put the ball in the basket.
16:29But who are the others?
16:30Who else is going to rise to the occasion and rise to the moment?
16:33In the last four years, it wasn't Mobley.
16:36Mobley wasn't that guy.
16:38Dating all the way back to when they were trying to get in via play-in before the Donovan Mitchell
16:42trade even went down,
16:44Mobley hasn't been that guy that's risen to the occasion.
16:47Neither has Jared.
16:48So I need somebody, and maybe it's Keon Ellis, maybe it's Dennis Schroeder, maybe it's one of the other newcomers
16:54to this mix.
16:55It's just you're right now in a window where you're genuinely trying to win an NBA title.
17:01And I know we're talking about Boston and trying to avoid them in the second round.
17:05And what's this even look like when you would face up against a Western Conference team if you get to
17:11the finals in a seven game?
17:12It's just there's a lot of pressure on this thing.
17:15And I think that reality has hit me this week.
17:18I don't know why it took me to this week, but it's here.
17:21It's a stark relevation when it hits you.
17:23That there is a lot of pressure on this Cavs team to get the job done this year.
17:28Maybe I blame myself because I've been so stuck and caught up in all of the LeBron stuff and what's
17:33to come this summer.
17:34And I think all of that will still materialize later this summer.
17:38But you can't lose sight in front of what's in front of you.
17:41And what's in front of them right now is you better find a way to put all this together to
17:46try to actually get to the mountain time.
17:48Like, we're not talking about getting out of the second round anymore.
17:51We're talking about getting back to the NBA finals.
17:54I think some folks in this town forgot just how difficult it is to do that.
17:58And it took a guy that just so happened to be from Akron in the height of his career, the
18:03prime of his career, the prime of his greatness.
18:05One of the two greatest players of all time to will us there four straight years.
18:10It's hard.
18:11It's hard to do that.
18:12And it's been hard for the Cavaliers to get back.
18:15And there's a lot of pressure, it feels like, on them to get back right now.
18:18Well, yeah.
18:19I mean, the clock is certainly ticking here for them.
18:22There's no question about it.
18:23This was, if I remember correctly, I think this was the first year of Donovan's three-year extension.
18:29Now, you have to remember that that three-year extension was really only a two-year extension because year three
18:37was a player option.
18:38So, your window right now as it stands is two years.
18:43It's this year and it's next year.
18:46Now, the gamble that Kobe Altman is going to ultimately have to make, depending on how things play out this
18:51year,
18:52and I don't think the Cavs are going to win the NBA championship this year, I think it's going to
18:56be Oklahoma City going back-to-back
18:59if the Thunder are able to regain their health because I just, I really feel like the Thunder, roster-wise,
19:08depth of their roster, versatility of their roster, age of their roster, plus the assets that they have sitting in
19:15their back pocket,
19:16all those first-rounders, right, they're not going anywhere anytime soon.
19:20And they've already got the pedigree.
19:23Now, all those dudes, they're so young, but they've won.
19:26They've been there, they've tasted it, and they've won it.
19:28They broke through last year.
19:29And so, I think that they are the next potential dynasty in the making.
19:37Now, that's easy for me to sit here and say that.
19:40It's another thing for them to actually go out there and do it.
19:44But right now, I'm assuming the Thunder gets back to the NBA Finals.
19:50I don't think that the Cavaliers are good enough to beat them.
19:53I don't think that the Boston Celtics are good enough to beat the Thunder.
19:56All that being said, the goal this year is just to punch through.
20:02Get through that second round so that Donovan Mitchell gets that off his shoulders.
20:07He can relax, and then you look at going into the offseason, right?
20:13You're going to have the Giannis conversation pop back up,
20:16and that's where Kobe Altman's going to have to roll the dice.
20:21It's a gamble.
20:22Do you do it again?
20:24Because you got 10 years older in the Garland for Harden Trap.
20:28Right.
20:29Are you willing to do that again?
20:30There's no guarantee just because you do trade for Giannis that that is the move
20:39that pushes you over the top.
20:41First of all, Giannis actually has to be healthy for the full season
20:45and the full postseason, right?
20:50Then he's got to buy in.
20:53We've never seen Giannis in a place that's not going to watch.
20:55I will say this.
20:56You can't make that trip because Giannis is in a similar situation to Donovan Mitchell.
21:00And a member of the Bucs ownership group was quoted within the last week of,
21:06you know, hey, we can't let him walk away.
21:08It's either an extension or a trade this offseason.
21:14You can't make that trade without him agreeing to a contract extension with you as well.
21:20It was Wes Edens and Jimmy Haslam have both declared that Giannis is either going to sign
21:27a contract extension or be traded this summer.
21:29But Jimmy Haslam could do the funniest thing imaginable.
21:35He can't help the Browns win anything, but he certainly could help the Cavaliers in a big,
21:44big way.
21:44Now, there is a little bit of a rivalry there.
21:47There's a billionaire rivalry going on.
21:50Especially with what's going on downtown and the development that Dan's trying to do,
21:55whereas Jimmy's skating downtown.
21:57Guys, think of your listening to our voices right now of some of the stuff that's going
22:01on behind the scenes.
22:03We're not talking about what's happening on the football field or on the hardwood.
22:06We're talking about all the other stuff that comes with being one of these billionaire sports
22:11owners.
22:12And yeah, Jimmy might maybe not want to be overwilling to help Dan Gilbert's initiatives,
22:20especially downtown Cleveland.
22:22Right.
22:23So that's another layer to this whole Giannis conversation.
22:29Okay.
22:29Another layer.
22:30Since we're just sitting here talking, you know, when we're really discussing fears as
22:35the Cavs have just about two weeks to put all of this together.
22:38And look, the Cavs are still talented.
22:40I'm not fearful about the Cavs.
22:42I'm still optimistic.
22:43They have enough talent.
22:44Talent's not an issue for the Cavaliers.
22:45Like this notion that they don't have enough to get over the hump, that's nonsense.
22:50But it's about the pressure.
22:51It's about if they show up.
22:53And I think another piece that adds on to how much pressure they're facing to get the job
22:58done this year is the landscape.
23:01Because you mentioned the Oklahoma City Thunder.
23:04Outside of them, the rest of all these other teams are flawed.
23:08You got the Oklahoma City Thunder, which in my opinion and yours are the class of the NBA.
23:12They're battle tested.
23:13They've won a championship.
23:15And even they have had their injury concerns this year.
23:17The Spurs are the two seed in the West.
23:20They're young and never done it.
23:21The Lakers are the three seed somehow.
23:23And it feels like they're pushing LeBron out the door while somehow finding,
23:28ways to win basketball games with Luka and LeBron together.
23:31Yeah, they've won like 10 or 12 or something like that.
23:34They had another come from behind win last night.
23:37They're winning basketball games.
23:38But the headlines would tell you otherwise because it feels like there's always some
23:42sort of drama that's following LeBron, Luka, and the Lakers.
23:45And then you look here.
23:46Yeah, but we dealt with that here.
23:48It was the same thing.
23:50Both LeBron 1.0, LeBron 2.0.
23:52We dealt with that same stuff.
23:55Okay, but still, my larger point is on the landscape.
23:58That's a flaw.
23:59That's a hole.
24:00You can't feel great about picking the Lakers to win the NBA Finals right now because there's
24:05still questions about the fit of Bron and Luka together.
24:09Then you look here in the East.
24:10Like, this is the most pressure that you've had to get through the Eastern Conference in
24:15the Donovan Mitchell era.
24:16Because the Pistons now don't even have Cade Cunningham because of the collapsed lung.
24:21And they're expecting him to be back, according to Shams, by the playoffs.
24:25But that's not a guarantee.
24:26And then what kind of shape is he going to be in come playoff time?
24:31The Celtics, in my opinion, rushed back Jason Tatum, who's still getting his feet underneath
24:36them.
24:36And there's a four-game gap between one and two in the Eastern Conference, even with Tatum
24:41back.
24:41The Knicks have question marks.
24:43Then you're looking at the Raptors, the Hawks, the Sixers.
24:45Give me a break.
24:46So it's like, it's never been as wide open as it is right now.
24:51And there's never a guarantee that'll ever be this wide open ever again in the Donovan
24:57Mitchell Cavaliers era.
24:59And that just adds to the inherent pressure to break through this year.
25:03You've got to get through that second round.
25:05You've got to get to the Conference Finals and perhaps even the NBA Finals.
25:08Because all of these teams outside of maybe Oklahoma City and certainly all of these teams in
25:14the Eastern Conference, they all got questions.
25:16None of these teams don't have a couple of skeletons in the closet this season.
25:21Well, yeah.
25:21I mean, I don't know if I call them skeletons in the closet.
25:24But you're right.
25:24There are outside of...
25:26There's no such thing as a perfect team.
25:29Okay?
25:30Every team has a flaw.
25:32I would say Oklahoma City might be the closest thing you have to a perfect team.
25:39And they've had their injuries this year.
25:41And there is a benefit to what the Cavaliers have been going through this year.
25:48At least I'm trying to talk myself into this.
25:53As I'm trying to figure this whole playoff picture out in the Eastern Conference.
26:00Because the only team that really scares me in the East is Boston.
26:06I, you know, it's why I was like, oh, the Cavs should just play for the 4th seed.
26:12Okay?
26:13You get Detroit in the second round.
26:15Detroit is not nearly in the same category as the Cavaliers.
26:20And I say that and understand that as we talk right now, they got over 50 wins.
26:24They're the number one seed in the conference.
26:26Guess what?
26:27Last year, Cavaliers won over 60 games.
26:29They were the number one seed in the conference.
26:32And they ultimately got the gentleman's sweep there in round number two.
26:38Courtesy of the Indiana Pacers.
26:41So, yes.
26:43The window is what it is.
26:45Things seem to have fallen their way as far as the landscape within the conference for them
26:52to get through at least that second round to get Donovan Mitchell back on board.
27:00But there's something that tells me Donovan might be already back on board.