00:00You know him, you love him. Big name, Jason Timph. Hoops tonight, as I butcher that.
00:07Jason, we almost landed the perfect plane on a very nice intro for you, but nonetheless, we appreciate you joining
00:12us.
00:13Hey guys, it's been a long week. I feel like my brain's fried too, so we're going to just let
00:17it slide.
00:17I'm excited to talk about this series.
00:19All right, so I have a theory that I have espoused many times and I can use to attack my
00:26co-host for the day here.
00:27I think when people look at this series and say Cavs in five, it's because they don't have the stones
00:34to say what they really think, which is Cavs in four.
00:37Is that a fair take when people predict this lopsided of a series odds wise as a five game gentleman
00:43sweep instead of a real sweep?
00:45To me, the sweep is generally a sign of like a very dramatic mismatch.
00:52I think more often than not, we see these kinds of series, even when there is a clear, better team
00:58tend to drag to six.
01:00So to me, when I pick Cavs in five, it's actually more of a statement about how I feel like
01:07the Cavs are a clear favorite.
01:09I just think in general, it's just maybe Houston Lakers, maybe an OKC first round series.
01:15It's going to be there. There's a lot of good teams this year. Sweeps are hard to come by.
01:19Hmm. I still think my co-host is a coward with love.
01:24The Cavs lost in five last year to the Pacers.
01:28That was a general. They lost the year before and five to the Celtics.
01:31Yeah, but they've also won in other increments.
01:34They've lost in other increments. You're just you're stuck on five.
01:37That's all. I think Toronto is going to win one game. That's all.
01:40All right. So when it comes down to what's what I guess, what's the difference from a quick Cavs win
01:47in this to a prolonged series for the Cavaliers or maybe even a Raptors win?
01:52So I think Toronto will have their advantages when they're on the defensive end of the floor, just in the
01:58sense that they're a big athletic team that rotates well, that has been committed to the defensive end all year
02:04long.
02:05They have some big physical perimeter defenders, guys like RJ Barrett and Jacoby Walter, who will make things difficult.
02:10Scotty Barnes is one of the top four or five defensive players I've watched all season.
02:15So they're going to have some advantages there. The reason why I had a really hard time talking myself into
02:21even really an upset shot for the Raptors has more to do with the other end of the floor.
02:25Just the the Cavs all year long have been a much better defense when they've had Jared Allen and Evan
02:30Mobley on the floor.
02:31And when they have those two guys, they can kind of stack in defensive actions and ball screens.
02:38What I mean by that is like if any of them have to show anywhere on the perimeter, the other
02:43is behind them.
02:43And so you kind of have to have some way of spacing them out in order to have some sort
02:48of sustained offensive success.
02:51And Toronto's just really not set up for that between Scotty Barnes and Yaka Pertel.
02:55Obviously, they can go with Sandro Mamukelaashvili and they had some success with Sandro against the two big looks back
03:01on November 13th.
03:02But that comes with the added problem on the other end of the floor because Sandro is not a good
03:07defensive player.
03:07So it's just like a really bad conundrum for Toronto to solve.
03:11And when I went back to the November 13th game, which is the only time Jared Allen played, the Raptors
03:16won that game.
03:18But the buckets that they were getting against that two big lineup was were almost entirely from the mid range.
03:25They were almost entirely tough.
03:28Scotty Barnes turnaround turnaround fadeaways.
03:30Brandon Ingram in the mid range floaters hooks from guys like Yaka Pertel.
03:34And they happen to make them in that game.
03:36That's the crazy thing.
03:37But it's just a very difficult thing to sustain.
03:40And the only real way they're going to be able to have any sort of sustained success is through like
03:45getting out in transition,
03:47somehow forcing cross matches so that Evan Mobley and Jared Allen are guarding perimeter players and pulled away from the
03:53rim.
03:53And those are just kind of like pocket possessions here or there that will take place,
03:58but are very difficult to amass a large sample size.
04:01So what it really comes down to is like in Toronto effectively score in that mid range at a higher
04:08clip than a Cavs team that's going to generate higher quality three point shots for better shooters.
04:15And those just tend to be higher percentage large sample plays anyway.
04:19So that's where I keep thinking Toronto draws dead, but like they're going to have a game where they hit
04:23a bunch of mid range shots and their defense plays well.
04:25And that's where they end up pushing things to five with it being a conference finals or bust mission for
04:32the Cavaliers.
04:33What's better for them?
04:35A challenging contested series with the Raptors or a repeat of what they did last year in round one.
04:42And that's just a complete dismantling and sweep of them.
04:45I think they could stand, I honestly think this is the perfect first round opponent for them in the sense
04:50that they're not like Detroit where they can really physically maul you,
04:55but they are a big physical athletic team that will be like a good kind of like appetizer playoff basketball
05:01for lack of a better way of putting it.
05:03And, you know, any sort of Cavs fan will always cling back to that simple number from this season that
05:11Jared Allen, Evan Mobley, James Harden and Donovan Mitchell basically played about 200 possessions this entire season together,
05:19which is, you know, less than two games worth with how the pace of the game is now.
05:24And they crushed in those minutes.
05:26They looked great, but we didn't get to see a ton of it.
05:29So in a lot of ways, like having a good physical defense for them to kind of just get accustomed
05:34to scoring against,
05:36I think will be a good appetizer for them.
05:38I did the same thing about San Antonio for Portland, for example, like another kind of big switchy athletic team.
05:44That's probably a little bigger and more athletic on the perimeter than San Antonio.
05:48It's like a perfect little appetizer for San Antonio as they get adjusted to playoff basketball.
05:52That's kind of how I feel like it is for Cleveland.
05:54But ultimately we all know what this Cavs team, even though they've played well against Detroit this season,
05:59and we all know that their biggest weakness is that they're not the most physically imposing team.
06:03And so it will prepare them, but ultimately Detroit is going to be a completely different battle.
06:09Jason, it's interesting.
06:11Obviously Donovan's got another contract decision to make here.
06:15The Cavs, you know, their hopes to kind of keep him interested and trying to win here.
06:21We're trading Darius Garland for James Harden.
06:24This does feel like a pivotal playoffs, though.
06:26And today we got the report from The Athletic that the Cavs could look to trade Donovan this summer if
06:32he doesn't sign an extension this summer.
06:35I just, where, for you, what's the sweet spot of expectations where the Cavs can keep Donovan,
06:41where the Cavs can keep forward momentum,
06:43and keep people interested in coming here to play with him to try and give him the best chance to
06:47win a championship?
06:49You know, I think, as you mentioned at the start of this segment, it's conference finals or bust.
06:55I think if you lose to Detroit, that's going to be really difficult to, you know, explain away, for lack
07:04of a better way of putting it.
07:05But as far as Donovan goes, I think a lot of it has to do with how well he plays,
07:08too.
07:08Like, if he plays great, and it's not, it seems to be more of a roster construction issue, that's where
07:16it gets complicated.
07:17Because, obviously, for Donovan, if he feels like he's being held back, which I think would be absurd,
07:23I feel like the Cavs, personally, my take on it is the Cavs have gone above and beyond to try
07:27to set Donovan up for success here.
07:30I think there's been some misfortune with injuries, and, I mean, even with the Harden-Garland situation,
07:35I mean, we all saw Darius Garland in that Warriors game just get relentlessly picked on and physically overwhelmed,
07:41and to the point where it was a problem for them down the stretch of that game,
07:44even though we all love Darius and we're such big believers in what his offensive upside is.
07:49And so you have this player who's a more physically imposing one-on-one defender,
07:55who hopefully will be more focused on the game plan when we get into the postseason.
07:58He was a little brutal post-All-Star break, but I think Harden just presents a higher floor,
08:04as crazy as that sounds in the postseason, a higher floor player than Darius Garland.
08:09And then, obviously, with a healthy Evan Mobley this year,
08:12Jared Allen's playing some of the best basketball of his career.
08:15There's kind of no excuses, and I would even take that a step further.
08:17Like, I thought the front office absolutely nailed the Jalen Tyson pick.
08:20I absolutely love him.
08:22I think that he, between him and Sam Merrill and Max Struis,
08:25like, you've got some more resilient spot-up shooters in this situation.
08:28It's kind of like an excuse-free zone.
08:32So, in many ways, Donovan's got to put up in this case.
08:36The team has been there and done what they've needed to do.
08:39So, you could argue, if it doesn't work out,
08:43it'd be more in Cleveland's best interest to trade him,
08:46because now it's just about accepting reality
08:49and the self-awareness of realizing that you're not on the same level of teams
08:52like Boston and Detroit.
08:54If they do get to that point this offseason,
08:57what teams do you think would make sense for Donovan?
09:00You know, I've been thinking a lot about this.
09:03So, obviously, you've got the ability to, like, kind of turn him into draft compensation.
09:10So, you could try to target teams that, you know,
09:13give you some sort of middle ground where you get competitiveness in the short term,
09:18but maybe some draft compensation.
09:20Like, what if you did call up the Lakers and you go,
09:22hey, I hear you're trying to sign Austin Reeves.
09:24Why don't we take Austin Reeves and a couple of picks
09:27so that we get a couple of valuable draft picks to continue to build,
09:31but we also get this dynamic pick-and-roll player
09:34to put alongside Jared Allen and Evan Mobley.
09:38I think that Miami is another team that you could look at.
09:41The tricky thing there is, like,
09:43are you going to be interested in taking back someone like a Tyler Harrow?
09:46I would personally think that Austin Reeves is better than Tyler Harrow,
09:50but it'd be a similar type of deal where you could maybe get Tyler
09:53and get some draft compensation so that you have some sustainability in the short term,
09:59but also some sort of draft compensation to build around in the long term.
10:03Donovan's kind of tricky.
10:05He's in that.
10:05He's not quite in the Jimmy Butler, you have to be desperate phase,
10:09but he's starting to get to that point where he becomes a riskier acquisition
10:15than going after 26-year-old Luka Doncic, if that makes sense.
10:20And that starts to put you into some of the more,
10:22desperate's not the right word,
10:24but into the more like win-now type of situations
10:26where people would be willing to trade for him.
10:28James Harden's expected to opt out of that player option.
10:33There's been reports the Cavaliers would then go ahead
10:36and probably sign him to a two-year contract, giving him more money.
10:43If this goes where Donovan does get moved,
10:50what should the impact be with Harden?
10:53Should the Cavaliers just cut bait and not bring him back?
10:57The thing with James Harden is he's like just weirdly
10:59one of the most reliable regular season players in the league.
11:03So like, I mean, just look at Cleveland or the Clippers.
11:05Like when the Clippers signed him to that deal,
11:07there were a lot of people that were concerned about that payday at that point.
11:11And then it turned out he was a positive asset
11:14in a negotiation with Darius Garland.
11:17And so because he's just, he's always available, he always plays,
11:21he gives you a certain offensive floor.
11:24You know, like I've argued he's one of the better
11:27like middle tier offensive engines in the league.
11:30So I don't think there's a version of James Harden
11:34in terms of a new deal that puts the Cavs in a spot
11:38where he's some sort of dramatic negative asset.
11:41So at that point, it's you just bring him back
11:43at some sort of, you know, compromise number,
11:46like you said, maybe a little higher than where he's at right now.
11:48But like with the way that the cap is going up
11:50and with the premium put on his specific skill set,
11:55like I don't think there's any universe
11:57where you're like trying to attach compensation to him
12:00to get rid of him.
12:01So I think you bring him back no matter what.
12:04Jason, great stuff, my guy.
12:06We had a million more things we could ask you,
12:08but you've been very generous with your time.
12:09We appreciate you, and I'm sure we'll catch up with you
12:12down the road in the NBA playoffs.
12:14Thanks, guys. Looking forward to next time.
12:16Jason Timp there.
12:17Hoops tonight on the Make It Right Call.
12:19Kyle Wright Hotline.
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