- 13 minutes ago
The price of commercial LPG was hiked by the steepest ever Rs 993 per 19-kg cylinder on Friday due to rising global energy prices linked to the West Asia conflict.
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00:01Good evening, hello and welcome. You're with the news today, your primetime destination news, newsmakers, talking points, news without the
00:08noise.
00:08Friday night ahead of the weekend, we've got plenty on the show tonight.
00:12Our big talking point, petrol, diesel, domestic, LPG price on the cards within the next week.
00:19Already commercial cylinders are up, oil shock brewing, how long can India really hold out?
00:26Among my special guests, Sajid Chinoy, one of the country's top economists, will join us.
00:30Also, the battle for Bengal now is a battle over EVMs. How secure are the EVMs?
00:38That Thrinamul versus BJP battle, former Chief Election Commissioner, among my special guests.
00:44But first, as always, it's time for the Nine Headlines at Nine.
00:50Fuel prices set to be hiked soon. Sources say government may increase petrol, diesel by Rs. 5 per litre soon.
00:58Domestic LPG price to be hiked by Rs. 50 per cylinder.
01:06Government hikes commercial LPG price by Rs. 993, 119 kg. Commercial LPG cylinder now costs over Rs. 3,000.
01:15Rahul Gandhi predicts an 81% hike in LPG prices.
01:21A day after the late-night drama in Kolkata over EVM, Shuvendu Adhikari of the BJP visits the Bhavanipur strongroom,
01:29terms Mamta's inspection a drama.
01:32EMC moves Supreme Court against the EC decision to appoint only central government staff as poll supervisors.
01:40Re-polling to be held in 15 booths in Bengal on Saturday.
01:45Decision taken on EVM tampering complaints in 30 booths in Falta constituency.
01:52Punjab Chief Minister Bhagwant Maan accused of coming to the state assembly in an inebriated state.
01:58Dope test demand by opposition rejected by the Punjab speaker.
02:01Maan wins a trust vote after high assembly drama.
02:07Just days ahead of Counting Day, all eyes are on the TVK office wherein Trichy allegedly is torched by miscreants.
02:14Investigation launched, TVK claims more such violent acts are being planned against the party in the future.
02:23Relief for Congress spokesperson Pawan Khera in the Assam Passport round.
02:27Apex Court grants him anticipatory bail, says personal liberty can't be put in jeopardy.
02:34And first commercial flight from Noida International Airport to take off on June 15.
02:39Indico to operate first flight from the newly inaugurated airport.
02:44And 60 days into the West Asia war now.
02:47Just hours to go for Donald Trump to seek Congress approval for further conflict.
02:53Iran sends a fresh proposal to the US.
02:56Reports say Trump and US forces discussed a final blow to Iran.
03:10The big story that we are breaking right at the very top and it is troubling news for consumers but
03:15expected.
03:16Fuel price hike now likely within the next week in India, within two days of the elections ending in West
03:24Bengal.
03:24Sources saying fuel prices will be hiked by rupees 4 to 5 per litre.
03:30Domestic LPG rates will be hiked by 50 rupees a cylinder.
03:34Government sources saying the government will take that call within the next week.
03:38Government aiming to minimize impact of oil rates.
03:41Remember, oil prices have spiraled globally after the war in West Asia.
03:46So, prepare, brace yourself for a fuel price hike.
03:51Chetan Bhutani, your business today, broke that big story.
03:54He joins me now.
03:55Chetan, what are you picking up and what exactly is the government planning?
04:01Well, Ajdeep, you know, the government was in anticipation of the past 15-20 days that if the state of
04:05government was issued and the talks between US and Iran gets resolved,
04:09hopefully, the government would not be increasing prices but the prices of petrol and diesel and the global crude oil
04:15has been hitting an all-time high of about $26 per barrel and resting between $110.
04:20So, it has become actually inevitable for the government to increase the prices of petrol and diesel and, of course,
04:26the LPG.
04:26What my sources are telling me is the fact that the decision could be out in another five to seven
04:30days.
04:30They are actually watching the West Asia crisis and hoping that the issue gets resolved.
04:35What my sources are telling me, Rajdeep, is the fact that between 4 rupees to 5 rupees is what the
04:40petrol and diesel retail price could be in the next seven days.
04:43And for LPG cylinders, 50 rupees per cylinder could be increased.
04:47The government is still in monitoring the situation.
04:49They are actually aware to protect the consumers but it's actually inevitable because anything above $80, the oil marketing companies
04:56are facing severe losses, nearly about $20-$20 per litre as of now.
05:02So, the situation as of now is inevitable but the government is keeping a very close eye on the issue
05:08and they want to protect the consumers from the retail inflation and the issue of petrol and diesel.
05:13But, yes, the price hike as of now is inevitable.
05:16You are saying it's inevitable.
05:17Do we know how much the price hike, what kind of price hike are we looking at, Chetan?
05:23Rajdeep, well, 4-5 rupees per litre at retail for petrol and diesel is what my sources are telling me.
05:28And for LPG cylinders, it could be around 40-50 rupees because as because we know that state of hormones
05:33is still under the blockade and a lot of issues as of now are happening between the US and Iran.
05:38Talks are not really proceeding well.
05:40So, that's why we know that the oil marketing companies would have to eventually take a price hike because it's
05:45actually becoming unviable for them to resource and get fuel to India at such rates.
05:50Okay, Chetan Bhutani joining us with those details.
05:53Clearly, the government now finding it increasingly difficult to hold on to oil prices at the present level.
06:00That was partly because or largely because of the elections that were taking place.
06:04Election cycle over, reality check has hit the government and indeed the consumer.
06:10Remember, already today, oil marketing companies hiked prices of commercial LPG cylinders and aviation fuel for international flights.
06:18The hike in commercial LPG prices by nearly 1,000 rupees has particularly hit eateries hard and many small businesses
06:26could be the first to suffer.
06:28Take a look at tonight's top story.
06:37Faced with skyrocketing global crude oil prices and uncertainty over West Asia ceasefire, oil marketing companies have bitten the bullet.
06:46Just two days after voting ended in West Bengal, 19-kilogram commercial LPG cylinder prices have been increased by 993
06:55rupees, effective from May 1st.
06:58Prices of 5 kilo LPG cylinders have also been increased by 261 rupees.
07:04However, retail prices of petrol, diesel and domestic LPG cylinders remain unchanged.
07:09This will insulate 33 crore domestic consumers to an extent.
07:15On the ground, situation is worrisome for restaurant business owners.
07:26The number of customers is more than $10,000,000.
07:32The price is more than $1,000,000 per day.
07:40The price is more than $10,000,000 per day.
07:44The price is more than $1,000,000 per day.
07:55international travel is also set to turn expensive the price of aviation turbine fuel or jet fuel for
08:03international airlines has been increased by five percent marking the second straight monthly rise
08:09as oil companies pass on the global surge in energy prices ATF prices have been increased by
08:16seventy six point five five dollar per kilo litre to one thousand five hundred and eleven point eight
08:22six dollar per kilo litre in Delhi home to India's busiest airport according to state-owned oil firms
08:29this follows the doubling of rates on first April last month rates for domestic airlines were hiked
08:36by 25 percent to rupees one lakh four thousand nine hundred and twenty seven point one eight per
08:42kilo litre however price for domestic airlines has not been increased this time the hike comes a day
08:50after global crude oil prices hit one hundred and twenty six dollars per barrel the highest in four
08:56years almost one and a half months ago we stated as IEA that the world is facing the biggest energy
09:09crisis in the history and what is happening now it shows that the the unfortunately we were right the
09:20oil markets gas markets are going through big difficulties oil prices now uh when I look last time over 120
09:30dollars which is putting a lot of pressure on many countries in the in addition to oil and gas
09:36fertilizers which is very important for developing countries petrochemical sulfur they are all interrupted
09:43though the narendra modi government has shielded citizens from a hike in domestic lpg and fuel prices
09:50it may not be economically wise if global prices keep rising the fall in rupees value against dollar
09:58has only escalated the crisis bureau report india today
10:06now petrol diesel domestic lpg hike next how long can india hold out how best to tackle this oil shock
10:17joining me now is uh sajid chinois dr sajid chinois is chief md and india economist jp morgan and also
10:25there south asia in charge appreciate you joining us uh sajid as predicted you've been on our show
10:31before uh the elections are over the government is going in today for commercial uh price hike in lpg cylinders
10:38and we expect a domestic price hike in fuel prices within the next week is that something that was
10:44inevitable in your view absolutely rajdeep good evening this was inevitable and unavoidable uh and i think
10:52it's first good to lay out the global backdrop because i think the global situation is more challenging
10:57more urgent and more pressing than we actually believe you know this is the third month of the
11:03war everybody speaks about the fact that it's the largest energy shock we've ever had but the fact is
11:08about 13 and a half million barrels of crude and crude products have been taken off the market now if
11:15that
11:15happened in the past you would have seen crude prices well over 150 dollars a barrel but the world
11:21and india have not seen the full impact of that because the first two months the world has been
11:27dipping into its inventories and one would argue almost 10 million barrels of inventories have been
11:32run down right so this is an unsustainable situation where you can't be burning your inventories at this
11:38pace the implication is with every month that this goes on crude prices will have to get much higher
11:45higher so that demand meets supply if supply is down by 13 and a half million barrels and you cannot
11:51be
11:51running your inventories down month after month demand will have to come down to match that and the
11:56equilibrating mechanism here is prices so i hate to say but crude prices i think at 110 are deceptively
12:03low they're not reflecting the true situation if this continues for a few more weeks or another month or so
12:09my sense is crude prices will jump up very sharply now in that environment i think countries can only
12:16do two things one is when there's a global shortage you can try and procure as much as you want
12:21but that
12:22procurement comes at a cost the second reason why crude prices are not reflective of the reality is on
12:28your screen they will show you crude is 110 a barrel but on the high seas when countries are bidding
12:34for the next ship of oil that bidding price is much higher than 110 so the actual price that india
12:41is
12:41importing it is much higher number one so the question is let's import as much as we can from
12:46around the world but then rajdeep as we've discussed several times before there has to be equitable burden
12:52sharing the government took the first hit which was an excise duty cut of 10 rupees despite that excise duty
12:59cut the under recoveries of oil marketing companies has now reached an unsustainable level and so
13:05unfortunately the next hit will have to be borne by households firms and the consumer now why is this
13:12important from an economic perspective again you want demand to meet supply you want indian households
13:18to actually behave in a manner that reflects the true opportunity cost of food prices so if prices
13:24don't go up we'll be consuming crude and petroleum products in a way that's not consistent with the
13:31reality so to generate the true behavioral response unfortunately prices will have to reflect that
13:37reality as you pointed out india is the only country in the world among the large economies that
13:42we track that has not increased uh you know uh petrol and diesel prices almost every other country as
13:48us it's 40 percent higher so this is an unfortunate but inevitable reality in fact i have that graphic
13:54playing on the screen over the last three months india's prices 0.1 percent pakistan 47.9 percent rise
14:00in uh diesel prices bangladesh 12.7 percent china 26.9 u.s 54.7 uk 33.8 uae 83
14:12.9 so what you're suggesting
14:14is that this was inevitable but it could set off an inflationary spiral isn't that going to be a major
14:21concern particularly since the rbi has uh has has to look at what that does to their monetary policy
14:28uh and and somewhere down the line there's only so much presumably that even the central bank can do
14:35it's a good point rajdeep i think uh the the silver lining here is that unlike covid india entered this
14:41crisis with strong macros as far as growth and inflation are concerned remember we were in a
14:46cyclical upswing last year gdp growth was seven and a half percent most forecasters thought this
14:51year growth would be seven percent and inflation was at record lows last year two percent it's picking
14:56up but below the four percent target so the good news is that the starting points here are quite
15:01favorable growth is high inflation is low but you're right there's no escaping the reality that
15:07you know given inflation pressures around the world this is going to be inflationary my sense is the
15:13reserve bank of india like other central banks is going to be patient in terms of monetary policy
15:19because this is a supply shock central banks tend to look through temporary supply shocks it's only if
15:25inflation expectations get unanchored or this seeps into core inflation that the rbi will react
15:32my bigger concern rajdeep is not inflation growth will take a hit undoubtedly it's the external sector
15:38uh you know the fact was india's current account was very benign coming into this but capital flows
15:44had completely dried up and the rupee was under pressure now what's going to happen is with crude
15:49prices at 120 and climbing the and you're seeing you know other prices gas prices have gone up
15:55remittances from the middle east will come down exports could take a hit in the months to come
16:00it's a perfect storm where the current account could widen and if capital flows don't pick up
16:06there'll be sustained pressure on the rupee here again i think we have to be realistic there's a lot
16:11of human cry when the currency depreciates we have to again pursue the philosophy of burden sharing yes
16:17the rbi can use some foreign currency reserves to smooth the depreciation but there's no alternative
16:23in this environment for the rupee to become the shock absorber you know but as you said that this
16:29growth could take a hit therefore are we heading for a period some countries have already called
16:35for austerity uh in in in the light of what is happening uh in the gulf no immediate sign to
16:41the
16:41end to the war and i remember in in our last interaction you had said if this war enters may
16:46that's when uh the pressures will grow we are now on the first of may and there is no sign
16:52of this war
16:53ending so the longer it presumably takes the more all forecasts are going to have to be revised
16:59including growth forecasts absolutely and you know the the concern rajdeep is this is not just a price
17:05hit the 2022 war was one where prices went up uh crude that's the case crude india can still import
17:11as much you know from russia and it's a price issue the worry is outside of crude when it comes
17:16to lpg
17:17and lng there's actually a physical supply shortage and that is going to result in non-linearities
17:23right if small businesses cannot procure uh you know lng or lpg uh we've seen non-linearities in
17:30covid where once a small business shuts down they don't often they don't start back up even if energy
17:35supplies are restored once a gig worker goes back home they typically don't come back so what india has
17:40to guard against are these non-linearities but this is a reality around the world and to your point when
17:45you say non-linear it means may will be worse than april and june will be worse than may around
17:51the
17:52world that's what a non-linear response means and there are no good options uh in this environment
17:56unfortunately you say there are no good options but what are the options i mean there has been the
18:01belief that we need to de-risk ourselves from all our oil coming through the state of hormuz look for
18:06alternative uh supply uh from uh other countries russia has already been seen as a as a country with which
18:14we've again uh we are we are resuming uh getting oil supplies do you see uh a a kind of
18:21uh uh an urgent
18:24need to reduce our dependence in a way from oil that flows in from the state of hormuz
18:30absolutely rajeeb so there are two uh time time horizons here one is through the crisis and the
18:36firefighting we need to do and that is to try and hunt for energy products anywhere around the world
18:42where we've had more success is you know importing more food from russia to make up for some of the
18:47shortfall from the state of hormuz we're importing more lng from the u.s more lpg from australia so in
18:53the near term the options are import as much as you can no matter what the price number one number
18:58two
18:59make sure there's equitable burden sharing households businesses and the government and oil
19:05marketing companies share the burden and number three uh you know we learned from covid that the
19:10reserve bank of india most likely i think soon uh you know may well consider uh a eclgs which was
19:17regulatory forbearance for small businesses because small businesses will be in the front line and we
19:22want to make sure that the shock is not magnified so liquidity support regulatory forbearance for small
19:28businesses that's the near term but just 30 seconds radi we have to step back and i wrote about this
19:33in the business standard yesterday i think there are really important lessons to draw from this
19:38that india has to like other countries recognize the new changed reality this is a very hostile world
19:45where trade is weaponized supply chains are fragile and de-risk ourselves and i think that will involve
19:51four things one is we have to build more buffers across the board identify the choke points in the economy
19:57that are choke points outside of energy related to china and where we can number one build buffers
20:02number two diversify imports where we can number three hedge prices mexico exports oil it's called
20:10the hacienda hedge they basically hedge prices in financial markets globally india should be hedging
20:16import prices so that we are protected from price movements and number four potentially also allow more
20:22fti from china that's the best way to de-risk ourselves from imports from china which will become so
20:27dependent on becoming aware finance so there's a lot of lessons to learn from this once the crisis is
20:33over you know awaiting the next shot okay i'm going to leave it there sajit you know as always very
20:39valuable and knowledgeable giving us a sense of really what the challenges are in this almost
20:45unprecedented situation that not just india but global economies find themselves and appreciate you
20:52joining me here on the show tonight thank you very much okay let's turn from there to the other big
20:57story you're seeing flashes now breaking on the screen the trinamul congress in west bengal has now moved
21:03the supreme court against the election commission's decision in west bengal ahead of counting which takes
21:09place on monday the tmc has challenged the ec's decision on poll supervisors election commission now saying
21:16only central government employees will supervise the trinamul congress wants west bengal government
21:22employees who also supervise the counting sources saying this to see chief justice of india has
21:28directed an urgent listing of the tmc plea it's likely to be heard as early as tomorrow which remember
21:35is a saturday so the courts likely to hear that plea at the moment cji directing urgent listing of the
21:44trinamul congress plea in the courts all of all of this of course coming against the backdrop of that
21:51political showdown that erupted in west bengal a day after uh the voting took place late night remember
21:58the trinamul congress and mamata banerji went to a counting center alleged that the evm tampering and
22:04strong room access was being compromised election commission called the charges baseless
22:10suvendu adikari of the bjp has claimed that it's a sign of desperation but mamata banerji says that
22:17she will not allow any kind of pressure through the election commission being put at the counting
22:24centers is this high drama or just a reflection of just how polarized politics now is in west bengal
22:31ahead of that big counting day take a look
22:36a political showdown has erupted in bengal even before the votes are counted allegations of evm
22:44tampering a midnight protest by tmc and a war of words between the tmc bjp and the election commission
22:51the tmc has alleged attempts to access strong rooms claimed its representatives were blocked and accused
23:00of the bjp and the election commission of collusion mamata banerji herself reached the bhabanipur strong
23:06room alleging manipulation and bowing a fight to the finish
23:11the election commission has firmly rejected the charges calling them baseless insisting all strong
23:35rooms are sealed and secure
23:37rooms are sealed and secure
24:03on friday bjp leader suvendu adhikari accompanied by a polling agent visited the same evm strong room
24:11he accused the cm of creating a drama
24:15amuloka pura nigrani tha my social media me kal rath ek baju ndal diya tha
24:19abdekh le na humari election agent tha kaaphi sara independent prathasi humari bahin mamata jali
24:32hira pheri na kare jada tang na kare security force ko returning officer ko ishle obya samilogia
24:41this explosive face-off comes as exit polls paint a sharply divided picture some predict a tight contest
24:48others give the bjp a clear edge
24:53as bengal waits for counting day the question is clear
24:57is this just noise before the verdict or the signs of a historic political shift
25:04bureau report india today
25:09okay let's raise the big question the concerns over evms are they valid or baseless ahead of the bengal
25:15elections how secure are evms have election commission ties particularly with the opposition
25:21hit rock bottom what really can the ec do to rebuild trust will the supreme court have to intervene once
25:27again joining me now is praveen chakravarti chairman professionals congress and uh the data analytics
25:33head of the congress party gvl narsima rao joins us former rajasaba mp and senior leader of the bjp and
25:39dr sy koreshi former chief election commissioner is also with us let me start with you dr koreshi
25:46we're seeing this increasingly before every election just before counting more more and
25:51more pressure on the ec suggestions that the ec is not being a fair neutral umpire do you believe that
25:58these allegations have any sus any basis this lack of trust in the election commission
26:05well i don't have all facts but the fact that the fingers have been raised from all quarters many
26:11quarters uh it's surprising it is shocking because any expression caused an election commission
26:18personally hurts me because this is an institution with which i was very closely associated so the
26:24fact that i mean there have been time when opposition had never raised a finger
26:28uh against the election commission why is it that they are so vocal this time there must be something
26:35which no but is this claim is this claim that the tinamul congress makes that central government
26:39observers can you can't have central government and psu employees at at these evm strong rooms on
26:45counting day you've got to have state government employees does is that a valid concern in your view
26:50or is that being exaggerated and being alarmist to put pressure in a way on the counting center officials
26:55yeah i find it a bit surprising because all the officials of the state government are also under
27:03the election commission in fact they have transferred hundreds of them from the chief secretary home
27:08secretary dgp to down the line so to treat them as outsiders and totally and dependable it is a bit
27:15surprising because they're all under the election commission and secondly but uh observers from outside
27:22uh from the center uh that has been the norm observers uh uh micro observers that has been the norm
27:29but they do not have any executive role just to observe and report to the election commission
27:34that has been the role right but if they are being given executive role that is something
27:41which needs to be discussed now i'm just going to tell our viewers before i come to uh both my
27:46other
27:46guests how does the election commission handle evms after voting the evms are moved to strong rooms the
27:53agents the party agents check details and sign form 17 thereby confirming uh the giving a confirmation to
28:02the numbers of people who voted evms are kept under a three tire security system innermost layer housing evms
28:09remain sealed until counting day innermost layer is guarded by central armed police forces strong
28:15room monitored round the clock through cctv the second layer has paramilitary forces agents who monitor
28:22live cctv feed outermost layers secured by the state police in emergency strong room can be opened in
28:30the presence of the party agents and the poll officials entry requires authorization letter from
28:36candidates with qr code based eci card so it is a pretty robust system one would think but gvl
28:42narsima rao this lack of faith in general in the evms is also indicative of a lack of faith in
28:48the
28:48election commission i remember you once wrote a book questioning election commission all those years
28:54ago do you believe that the system is robust or it needs a relook uh razdeep actually uh uh it
29:03was in
29:03uh i think 2010 we wanted a complete scrutiny of it and i wrote a book on this we wanted
29:11a lot more
29:11safeguards we i was principally opposed to paperless voting incidentally uh dr khureshi was the chief
29:20election commissioner he resisted a lot of our attempts he said no these machines are good they are good
29:26they are simple they cannot be hacked all that is fine but what my principle at that time was and
29:32i
29:32continue to hold that that every vote cast in elections there has to be a verifiable proof
29:39okay it was because of our efforts i think we we pad with great uh uh resistance from election
29:46commission i must say without i think with a lot of intervention by the supreme court this was introduced
29:51today every every vote that was cast in west bengal has been seen by the voters being dropped into the
30:00vv pad box and it is stored and secured so therefore apart we don't have a hundred percent vv pad
30:07trail we
30:08do not still have a hundred percent vv pad trail that is no a hundred percent is stored every vote
30:14is
30:15currently stored therefore you today my what we fought for was non-transparent voting is not
30:22acceptable there has to be a verifiable backup approve which has actually happened because of
30:28a lot of us who fought for it and uh and i'm sure i must confess election commission has introduced
30:34several more safeguards several more administrative measures after many of us uh highlighted them and a
30:42full credit to the election commission having constituted a committee after our effort they
30:47constituted a committee of iit experts and came up with a lot of innovations so electronic so you
30:55believe the system is foolproof you believe the system as it exists today is foolproof am i correct
31:01it is administrative with all administrative and security measures in in place it is foolproof but but
31:10a backup in the form of a vv pad is essential which is what we have today we didn't have
31:15it in 2014 we
31:17didn't have it sorry in 2009 it was only electronic count today we have every vote that is preserved
31:23that is what we campaigned for and i'm happy we got that raveen chakravarti you are among those critical
31:29particularly after the maharashtra elections you had questioned not just tvm but more importantly electoral
31:34roles itself that before the actual voting took place there were questions i'll come to you dr
31:39kureshi in a moment but let let praveen respond to that because i want our viewers to get a sense
31:44of
31:45what are the concerns praveen what were your concerns are they only related to electoral roles do you believe
31:50that the evms are tamper proof do you accept that that once that box is in the strong room it
31:56is tamper
31:56proof see the um questions about the maharashtra election were about voter lists and there is absolute
32:06clear statistical evidence that the voter list for the maharashtra state election were suspect and dubious
32:14and what's the best proof of that the election commission announces something called the sir soon
32:21after we mr rahul gandhi exposed them on vote shorty rajip you followed elections for a very very very
32:28long time even a year and a half ago would you have ever thought that the election commission would
32:34come up with something called an sir of revamping the entire voter rolls for every state across the
32:41country that is the clearest proof that there was something suspect also was there there was an
32:46sr in 2003 also it's not as if the sr has only come now exactly so so so that's fine
32:51i mean that's
32:52you've answered your own my your own question 2003 it was there so why suddenly out after we
32:56raised vote shorty you never no one really expected it that's the clearest proof on the ebms okay on the
33:03ebms i take uh um mr jvl narsimarao's point about vvpat now we the congress party categorically asked for an
33:11improvement over the vvpat system which was when a vvpat is uh when when the vote vote is being
33:19printed just to explain to our viewers sorry vvpat is a verified voter or uh trail
33:24paper trail but unfortunately the paper so what what what we had asked for so let me explain what we
33:31had asked for is once the voter presses the button on the evm machine there is a system of a
33:39vvpat machine
33:40that shows who that person voted for we said give that paper to the voter let the voter see it
33:48touch it
33:50feel it and drop it into a box himself or herself so it was an extension of the vvpat idea
33:56which would
33:57improve trust now we went we went and met two election commissioners with this request for improvement
34:04purely to improve trust we have it in the congress party's manifesto for the 2024 elections the problem
34:11with trump the why is there a trust deficit between between this election commission and the opposition
34:16because the election commission almost behaves like a department of the bjp they treat the opposition
34:23as an opposition they don't treat the opposition as a political party and that is where the problem is
34:28so we're we're saying improve our trust improve the trust deficit that we have today do not treat
34:34us as an opposition so why why is it that there are different rules when we do something and when
34:40the when when the bjp does something simple things announce announcing of government schemes uh
34:46just a few weeks before elections different rules you talked about changing officers in bengal
34:51in kamil nadu the election commission went and changed the chief secretary dr kureshi just mentioned
34:57that they do not normally have an executive role the officers appointed by the election commission
35:01they went and changed the chief secretary the main person with the executive uh you know functioning
35:06uh so why the problem is the trust deficit you know we cannot solve an evm question or a process
35:14question without answering this trust deficit issue before i you know i just want one clarity you're
35:20saying you want a system where when i go and uh push a button on the evm i also get
35:27that vv pad slip which
35:28i can see and drop in a separate box so that in a way is that you're actually seeing both
35:34the uh you're
35:35in a way getting both the electronic voting and a paper voting done simultaneously right exactly
35:42instead of showing it in a small screen behind the machine in a dark environment and you're anyway you
35:48say that you're printing it and dropping it into a box why don't you just give it to the voter
35:52so let
35:53the voter touch it feel it see it and then drop it in another box so we have two sources
36:00of truth
36:01one is the machine and the second is the the paper uh box you agree with that jvl narsimarao that
36:08if you
36:08want to you see it's all becoming about trust deficit even now this whole battle playing out in uh
36:14west bengal is the huge trust deficit that exists between the ec and the thinamul congress
36:20no i i don't think so i think it's more of a political posturing and drama because it's the
36:26same evms it's the same system with which she won landslide victories in all the last five six
36:32elections lok sabha and assembly put together and there was never a doubt and suddenly there is a doubt
36:38today i think it's it's it's a little too politically rich to believe so but but but the
36:44the point that praveen raised i think that was discussed in the commission you see eventually
36:49the decision was to be made but the commission said no what if people put it in their pocket and
36:53take it away what if those votes go missing what if somebody outside the polling booth asked them
36:59to come and show me the proof so that i'll pay you or i i want confirmation these were the
37:04kind of
37:05doubts expressed so i think this is this was the expert committee that made certain recommendations
37:11to the election commission and i must say commissioners may have changed over the years
37:17election commissioners but they always almost had the same stand as far as the evms are concerned
37:23i don't see dr qureshi might be critical of some decisions of the commission today but i'm i won't i'll
37:29be surprised if he has a different view as far as the method of no but i i think both
37:35of you agree
37:35that the vv pad it's it's only how do you use the vv pad you just allow it to drop
37:40automatically
37:41without touching it praveen chakravarti suggests that you can actually have it in your hand and then drop
37:46it in a box presumably next to the evm dr qureshi do you think that will be a another positive
37:52step then
37:53you need to in some way have some kind of a a paper trail in a way a a paper
37:59trail which the voter can
38:00actually see for himself or herself so that he sees it even today no no i'm going to praveen
38:09praveen it drops out of course it drops out of the yeah out of the evm now he's saying hold
38:14it in your
38:14hand and put it in another box that's all he's saying yeah verify it touch it feel it and two
38:19sources of truth you establish two sources of verification he does but he doesn't touch and
38:25feel it that's yeah that's the only difference yeah so so that is all part of this trust deficit
38:30dr qureshi do you believe that the real the real issue is the lack of trust you see there
38:35politics has become so polarized that the ec is no longer seen as a neutral umpire by the opposition
38:42correct you're you're right about lack of trust but imagine remember that even ec can have a lack
38:48of trust in for instance feel it touch it and also what he's not mentioning and put it in their
38:53pocket
38:54and then it becomes a cycle therefore but giving it in the hand of the voter i think will be
38:59a
38:59dangerous idea and we have been opposing it and coming back to gbl just correcting him he's a very
39:05knowledgeable person two things within two months of my joining i called an all-party meeting to
39:11discuss the evm issue it was led by the the chander babu naidu and in that meeting itself we decided
39:19that we'll go for vvpat they please stand corrected supreme court decision came three years later in
39:252013 and you have been referring to an expert company which got formed because of you expert
39:31committee had existed for 20 years uh integration community in which after is a demise it was taken
39:40over by other so that that committee has been operating for a long time so and finally the radhi
39:47you explained very beautifully the the security procedure of the evm after the voting is over
39:54but what you haven't mentioned and which is very important for everybody to know
39:58that when the polling is over we know exactly how many votes have been in the car and it should
40:04be
40:04reflected in form 17 without filling without signing and giving it to the polling agent
40:14officer cannot go home so therefore that data is a full real time and has to be known to everybody
40:21secondly secondly yeah but we've also had no sir sir we've also one minute sir sir sir dr kureshi we've
40:27had problem with form 17c there have been huge question marks over over form 17c that have been
40:33raised by various political parties that the ec needs to be much more transparent you know it's all
40:38coming down to transparency whether whether there is each booth there must be clarity on how many
40:44people have actually voted in every booth
40:51uh if there is a doubt about the form 17c it is uh for election commission to clarify because
40:58and they don't release the figure for two three days it is not acceptable because actually form 17
41:03is completed and signed by the presiding officer given to the agent who signed a receipt only after
41:12that he can go home so you're saying you're saying that you're saying that the number should come out
41:16in real time right how many people have voted for boot should be real time not two or three days
41:22later
41:22when you give a higher voting percentage am i correct exactly but now coming back to you know the evm
41:28security the after the voting is over there is a paper seal with that beside two or three seals
41:33inside the machine there is a paper seal which is you need with a unique number publicly printed in
41:38nasik press where our currency is printed and which is wrapped around the machine and every agent present
41:45has to sign that paper and that's a paper is deliberately fragile if you try to
41:52tinker with it it will break and the machine will be discarded so we therefore on the day of counting
41:58on the day of counting what people must see whether the signatures of those uh the agents are present on
42:04that machine or not that is the security which has to be because uh if the signature i take your
42:12point
42:12i just want to give final words to both praveen and gbl you gbl you go first yeah razdeep uh
42:19parties
42:20cannot choose to be selective in their in their faith in evm process and uh doubt it when it doesn't
42:27suit them or when they fear a loss evm sir you did it when you are sir when you are
42:32in the opposition
42:33yes you doubted the evm in 2009 10 you wrote a book on it now you're saying evm is a
42:38perfect process
42:39we ask for a reform you're forgetting i think you're a journalist you don't understand the
42:44difference the evms then were paperless one had to have faith in the machine today apart from this
42:52every voter has a confirmation of a printout which tells him whether his vote has been dropped correctly
42:59or not and that also acts as a backup in the case of any election petition in the if you
43:05go to the
43:05election cup the high court and seek election petition a count a physical count of vv patch
43:11slips is possible in the president system it was not possible then so you cannot say i'm you cannot
43:17compare the evm's today i'm taking the evm's now okay praveen chakravarti your final point yes see i
43:24think i let's not bring politics into this if we are having a serious discussion about how we can
43:28improve trust deficit and with the evm so you you also with due regard praveen brought politics saying
43:34that the opposition believe the ec treats them with uh with double standards yeah yeah it is about
43:39the trust deficit with the ec that i'm saying when i say bring don't bring in it's not bjp or
43:44congress
43:44so so so i'm i'm talking about we are talking about a process improvement on the evm to bridge a
43:50trust
43:51deficit that's a limited issue we're talking about today i am i'm sorry but i do not uh agree with
43:57uh
43:57dr koreshi is the the classic bureaucrats suspicion of the average indian i think given where we are
44:04with the trust deficit issue the the need for the voter to actually be more trustworthy because
44:12simple data suggests more than half of indian voters say they do not trust the election process
44:19today that is not my poll that is not the bjp's poll that is not one of your exit poll
44:24agencies poll
44:25it's a credible csds poll right so we have to improve this and for that we have to we can't
44:32belittle the
44:33indian voters saying you just put it in his pocket and run away we can we can very clearly tell
44:37the
44:37voter you have to drop it only then your vote is valid but the benefits of doing that is remarkable
44:43in terms of trust deficit so it is very important that we discuss this seriously as a country to
44:50improve the trust deficit problem either way what we hope is that that trust deficit is a you know is
44:57something which should worry all of us who are committed to democracy in the country india's electoral
45:01democracy is the pride across the world in many ways but in recent times there has been this growing
45:07trust deficit between the election commission and the opposition in particular and it's spilt out if
45:11those polls are right also into public confidence at times and that could be worrying but i appreciate
45:16my guests joining us and shedding so much more insight on that question thank you all very much for
45:22joining me now with the news today let's turn to tonight's ground report and it's a tragic one a
45:28pleasure cruise turned into a tragedy in jabalpur in madhya pradesh a cruise boat capsized at the
45:33bargi dam in jabalpur leaving nine people dead authorities say the vessel sank due to a sudden change in
45:39weather leading to strong winds and causing it to lose balance however it has come to light the
45:45cruise was allowed to remain on the water even though the meteorological department had issued
45:49a yellow alert for jabalpur take a look at tonight's report
46:03a mother and a four-year-old son locked in a hug in their dying moments as a joyride turned
46:10into a tragedy
46:14shattering many lives in a matter of minutes
46:20a cruise boat caught in a sudden storm capsized in the bargi dam reservoir in jabalpur on thursday
46:25leaving at least nine including children dead
46:28the
46:32the
46:34the
46:34We were going to go slowly, so we were going to go down to the road.
46:40Did you wear your life jacket?
46:42No, we were wearing the last jacket.
46:44When did you wear the last jacket?
46:46When we were walking, we were going to give everything.
46:51When we were walking, I said that the water was coming a little.
46:56It was like this.
46:58How many people were with your family?
47:00There were 7 people.
47:03There were 5 people.
47:05They were dead.
47:07Who did you find?
47:08I found a big family.
47:12At the time of the accident, there were around 30 people on the boat.
47:17The fear was coming from yesterday.
47:20The dead bodies were not getting there, where the cruise was in Dubai.
47:23It was going to be like,
47:25the dead body was coming in the cabin.
47:29The dead bodies were coming out of here.
47:31The dead bodies were coming out of here.
47:32The divers of the army arrived here.
47:34The glass of the cruise is going inside.
47:39The dead bodies were coming out of here.
47:41The dead bodies were coming out of here.
47:45Families gathered on the banks broke down as bodies were brought to the show.
47:56Another person joined the people of the killer who have beencessioned.
48:00demokrats were coming out of here.
48:22Prime Minister Narendra Modi has expressed grief and announced
48:24two lakh rupees as ex-grascia and relief to the families of the dead.
48:28The Madhya Pradesh government has also announced four lakh rupees as compensation.
48:52Incidentally, the MET department had issued a yellow alert for Jawalpur. The forecast
48:57had predicted strong winds of 40-50 km per hour, signalling a clear risk, but the cruise
49:03boat was allowed to remain in the water. The investigation already underway will reveal
49:07the lapses, if any, that led to the disaster.
49:40We have inaugurated the 13 km missing link on the Mumbai Pune expressway. The link is
49:45expected to reduce travel time between Mumbai and Pune by half an hour. So that's the bridge
49:52that is the gift in a way to the people of Maharashtra on Maharashtra Day.
49:57We hope that that will be a precursor to making sure that we have even better infrastructure
50:04in that part of the country. Good to see that happening here on Maharashtra Day.
50:19Okay, the missing, missing link through the ghats of Maharashtra. I want to leave you this, uh, ahead of the
50:26weekend with another special at India today. We've tied up with Radico to do a campaign to save the tiger,
50:33uh, Royal Ranthambore campaign as we are calling it. And Saif Ali Khan has joined me to stick out the
50:39message of the message of how do we support wildlife conservation and particularly the one and only Royal Tiger of
50:47India.
50:48Thanks for watching. This tiger must leave you tonight. Good night, Ubratri, Jai Hind, Namaskar. See you, remember, counting day,
50:586 AM onwards, on Monday. Bye for now.
51:03Saif, as an Indian, what I find so interesting about the tiger is that this is an animal that has
51:09shaped
51:09our country in so many ways. From our folklore and religions to our art forms, films, songs, the tiger has
51:18been central to our identity. And look at their story so far. It's one of near loss, determination and an
51:25incredible national revival.
51:27Rajdeep, you know, I think no other animal represents power, grace in such a manner or has that sheer regal
51:33presence like the tiger does. And honestly, we're lucky we still have them.
51:37It's nothing short of a miracle that they exist in the numbers they do today.
51:41That's right. Many thanks, therefore, to Project Tiger and the National Tiger Conservation Authority.
51:47Exactly. And everyone played such a remarkable role in it. Policymakers, forest guards, villagers, people who've coexisted with tigers for
51:54generations.
51:55From a population that once hovered in the low hundreds or barely over a thousand.
51:59Today, we have around 3,500 plus as per the last count.
52:05And as a tiger enthusiast, nothing gives me more joy than knowing my kids can see this animal in its
52:10natural habitat.
52:11Not just in books or old documentaries, but out in the jungle where it belongs.
52:15So I've known Saif the star, Saif the royal, but this is the first time I'm meeting Saif the tiger
52:21enthusiast.
52:22Well, when I'm not shooting, you'll probably find me narrating Jim Corbett's stories to my kids or traveling to a
52:28wildlife reserve with them.
52:30Tigers have fascinated me since childhood and I've spent years reading, learning, exploring their world.
52:35And trust me, just like cinema or cricket, the world of tigers too has its own legends.
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