00:00I want to get another perspective. Mukul Rodgi, Senior Advocate, Supreme Court, former Attorney
00:05General of India, now joins us on this entire defection that's taken place in ARP. Mr. Rodgi,
00:11appreciate your joining us. Within 72 hours of Aham Admi Party, seven MPs switching over,
00:17claiming that they have merged with the BJP. The chairperson of the Rajya Sabha
00:20has approved the merger. Do you believe this is fine in law? Do you believe there's a constitutional
00:26infirmity in the way in which this decision was taken allegedly in haste?
00:33In the way in which this has taken place.
00:36No, see Rajdeep, we can have a debate whether defection should be allowed or not at all.
00:44That is on a different plane. But once the law under the 10th schedule to the Constitution provides,
00:51that if two-thirds of the legislature party, MPs or MLAs in a house want to defect,
01:03defect is the real phrase, they can defect provided they merge with another party,
01:11the number being two-thirds. In the earlier days, it used to be one-third, now it is two-thirds.
01:16So, two-thirds of 10, I believe, is seven or a little less than seven. So, if seven have gone,
01:26then they are protected by the 10th schedule. The fact that the numbers are known, there is no
01:34dispute on the numbers of the strength in the upper house and the numbers going, I don't think the
01:42chairman had any option but to accept it. Can I just put a caveat to what I heard and Dr.
01:48Singhvi said
01:48that just now. A constitution, the bench of the Supreme Court in 2023 under Justice Chandra Choon
01:54deciding on the split in the Shiv Sena and Maharashtra said that two-thirds of the members
01:59joining another party at the legislature level must also be supported by what is happening in the parent
02:06party outside the assembly. So, the political party must not merge only in the legislature but it has
02:13to also merge outside. That's one inference from the judgment. Mr. Kejriwal has not merged with the BJP.
02:20I don't think that inference is called for. I can read to you the provision. The provision clearly says
02:30that the legislature party means those, it comprises of people who are in the seat in the house concerned.
02:40So, AAP has a legislature party, say of 10 people in the upper house, two-thirds thereof want to go.
02:48Because if you look at the political party, who are the members of the political party? That's an amorphous body.
02:56It will be impossible to assert it. I mean, a party will have a lack of members. So, you can
03:03have an indeterminate
03:04kind of situation. This is the will of those two-thirds and they have gone under the law. They are
03:11protected.
03:11We can have a debate. According to me, my humble view, this defection business should not be protected at all.
03:21Even if one person leaves his party which has given him the post, whether in Lok Sabha, in Rajya Sabha
03:29or people have elected him in Lok Sabha. If he is on that mandate, he chooses to quit that mandate,
03:37then it should be deemed to be a resignation and out you go.
03:41You know, you are making a very important point. You are saying, Mr. Rotgi, that under the way you see
03:46the anti-defection law as it stands under the 10th schedule, forget about one-third of the MPs, two-thirds.
03:53Any individual, MLA or MP, leaving a party under which he or she has been elected should be made to
04:00submit his resignation or her resignation and then fight for re-election. Am I correct?
04:05You want a change in the law?
04:07Yes, you are right. These are the highest traditions of a democratic nation.
04:13This idea was you don't have Ayeram-Gaheram. Now, you had Ayeram-Gaheram in one form in one-third.
04:19Now, you have Ayeram-Gaheram in the form of two-third. Just because numbers are increased
04:25from one-third to two-third, that does not give it legitimacy of the fact that you are cutting the
04:32very branch on which you are sitting by saying, I give two hoots to the party which elected me or
04:37to the people of the constituency which elected me. I give them two hoots. That's not correct.
04:42Okay. Because ultimately, public is the master. They are the sovereign. And this is not discharging a debt
04:49to the public who have elected you. According to me, it requires a relook by parliament at the
04:56earliest and this provision should be done with it. So, in conclusion, what you're telling me,
05:01the Amarbi party MPs who've defected to the BJP, as the law stands today, the chairperson of the Rajasaba
05:07was justified in declaring them members of the BJP, legitimizing the merger. But what you are calling
05:13for is a complete change in the law itself to declare any defection illegal ab initio. Am I correct?
05:22Yeah. So, Rajdeep, the only can be it. The chairman has to be satisfied that seven out of ten have
05:30actually signed their letter. It's not forged. And we have had those cases also. And it was done
05:41voluntarily and they are going. That's the end of the matter. That's the end of the inquiry by the
05:46chairman. Okay. I'm going to leave it there.
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