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In a fresh blow to the Mamata Banerjee-led party, now Trinamool Congress MP Sushmita Dev resigned from the party and the Rajya Sabha.
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00:02Good evening, you're watching To The Point. I'm Preeti Chaudhuri. These are the headlines.
00:09The 12 years of Modi Sarkar. Modi becomes longest serving elected Prime Minister.
00:14NDA leaders felicitate Prime Minister Modi and thank him.
00:17He was also seen enjoying Dhal Modi served by Bengal Chief Minister Shovindu Adhikari.
00:27The Italian Prime Minister Meloni congratulates Prime Minister Modi on becoming India's longest serving elected Prime Minister.
00:35Says, hope to create new opportunities.
00:43Amidst exodus from TMC, India Today accesses lists with 19 rebel MPs.
00:48Shatrugan Sina, former cricketer Yusuf Pathan, also in the list of rebels.
00:53Earlier, Sushmita Dev resigns.
00:56She meets a SAM Chief Minister.
00:58Himanta Biswas, Sarma sparking BJP joining buzz.
01:05Mega political war breaks out after poll body rejects Congress Neta's Rajya Sabha nomination for hiding criminal cases.
01:13Congress cries foul, claims polls being manipulated.
01:16BJP slams Congress says, must look within itself.
01:26Vijaya's second visit to Delhi after becoming Tamil Nadu Chief Minister,
01:30Talapati meets Rahul and Sonia Gandhi at Tanjadpat.
01:33Earlier, he met President Rupadi Murmu, Vice President Radha Krishnu.
01:43Rajasthan Government denied India Today's news break, now stands corrected.
01:48Rajasthan Mantri admits oxytocin injections had only water, admits bleeding of women could not be stopped.
02:06The latest news break coming in India today has now accessed the full list of rebel MPs where the TMC
02:12is concerned.
02:13List of 19 rebels of the TMC who opened rebellion against Mamata Banerjee.
02:20Surprising names in the list as well.
02:22Yusuf Vatan, Shatrugan Sinha as well as Mamata Banerjee's loyalist, Shayoni Ghosh also in that list.
02:30Anti-defection law no longer applies on rebels where they have crossed the two-third mark which is at 19.
02:38What does it really indicate? We are going to get a larger understanding from our reporters as well.
02:45But first up, taking you through that list, I want to cut across to my colleague Piyush who is joining
02:50us live for more.
02:52Piyush, the list of 19 which has been released, has it been released with signatures of these said rebels
03:00which include the likes of Shayoni Ghosh, Yusuf Pathan and Shatrugan Sinha?
03:09Well, Preeti, one thing is clear that 19 MPs of Nambul Congress have rebelled against the leadership of Mamata Banerjee
03:16and Abhishek Banerjee.
03:17And this is now almost official because India today has accessed the list of these MPs who have signed the
03:24letter.
03:24Though the list of signatures is not out yet, but sources have confirmed these 19 names which also includes the
03:35name of Shayoni Ghosh,
03:37Shatrugan Sinha and the likes of Kakuli Ghosh.
03:42There are a few surprising names also in this list.
03:46This is certainly indicating that a large chunk of TMC MPs have rebelled against Mamata Banerjee.
03:53Now, what we are hearing is that in a day or two, Kakuli Ghosh, who is also leader of these
03:58rebel MPs, is going to meet Lok Sabai's speaker.
04:01After that meeting, they are going to request a speaker to announce them as a real TMC.
04:07TMC and then we will see a big split in Trindamul Congress.
04:12If you talk about the numbers, 19 is the exact number which a faction needs to break away from Trindamul
04:18Congress.
04:19But there is a bit of a lacuna in that as well.
04:23What is that formula that they will follow?
04:25That's the big question, Piyush, and I want to bring in Aishwarya into this conversation.
04:28Aishwarya, they're going to approach the speaker.
04:30It seems that the rebel faction have 19 names of signatories.
04:33That 19 practically suggests that they've breached the two-third mark, which they needed to breach the anti-defection law.
04:40But even then, there is the Maharashtra Supreme Court judgment in place.
04:44At the back of that, three options where these MPs are concerned.
04:49One, that they join the BJP.
04:51The other one, of course, is to go to court where a separate faction, which would be the TMC.
04:57And there is a judgment in that in Maharashtra, which contends that.
05:01So, they go to court or then they individually continue to function like Swati Malewal function, where the Amadmi Party
05:09was concerned.
05:13Well, definitely, you know, but Preeti, the options that you gave.
05:17In the third option, it was the Amadmi Party that was actually not touching Swati Malewal.
05:21In this case, will Mamata Banerjee, Abhishek Banerjee and the others, will they not be speaking or touching the MPs?
05:29Because these MPs are very, very clear, their ideology is very, very clear.
05:32But Aishwarya, the counter to that would be that they have already lost the legislative party in the state.
05:37They have no control over the legislative party in the state.
05:40So, what control do they really have on these MPs then?
05:44I'm talking about Mamata Banerjee and Amishek Banerjee, Aishwarya.
05:50Well, that, right, Preeti, you know, that actually is a million dollar question.
05:53The other thing which actually, you know, even the, some people are keeping a hawk's eye on, are some kind
05:58of letters reaching the election commission also.
06:00Because in case there are two factions, then who has the symbol and who has the name?
06:04We have seen this fight in NCP.
06:06We have seen the fight during Shiv Sena's time also.
06:09So, those two are the things that we need to keep in mind.
06:12But yes, definitely what we are seeing, a complete list is out.
06:15And as you rightly pointed out, the number is 19, which means that they have already breached the two-third
06:19mark.
06:20We will have to wait and watch which side this goes to the election commission, from what I understand,
06:24has not received a letter from either of the sides, which means that the symbol and the name actually stays
06:30with both the parties at this moment.
06:31So, that's also something that we have to wait and watch.
06:35All right, Aishwarya, thank you for that quick update.
06:37My colleague, Aishwarya Paliwal, joining us on these dramatic developments that are taking place within the TMC's camp.
06:43Meanwhile, the rebellion within the Trinamul Congress appears to be deepening hour by hour, not just day by day anymore.
06:50A week after Shuhindu Shekhar Roy's exit, another senior leader has walked out, claiming that not happy with the TMC,
07:02with whispers of nearly 20 MPs backing the dissidents and more names surfacing.
07:07The battle for Bengal's ruling party is now playing out from Kolkata all the way to Delhi.
07:16No end to troubles for the Trinamul Congress.
07:20A second major jolt in a week.
07:22Senior leader and Rajya Sabha MP Sushmita Dev resigns from the party and the upper house.
07:28Soon after, her meeting with the SAM Chief Minister Himanto Biswasarma in Delhi triggered a fresh political storm.
07:35In her resignation, Sushmita Dev confirmed quitting both the Rajya Sabha and party membership.
07:44She defended her decision in an exclusive interaction, even as the next move remains under watch.
08:15Sources suggest she may join the BJP and contest a Lok Sabha by poll in a SAM.
08:20This comes days after another senior exit, Sukhindu Shekhar Roy.
08:25He quit citing corruption allegations and failure of law and order in West Bengal.
08:30Two high-profile resignations in a week have raised serious questions over Mamata's parliamentary party.
08:36And now the numbers are growing.
08:38West Bengal leader of opposition Ritav Rathab Anerji claims TMC MLAs in his camp have risen to 64.
08:59The crisis is also spreading to Parliament.
09:03Sources say Sayoni Ghosh, a vocal Mamata supporter, is among the signatories on a list of nearly 20 rebel TMC
09:10MPs.
09:10A development that has shocked party ranks.
09:14TMC MP Mala Roy is also in Delhi.
09:17Sources say she too is likely to join the emerging rebel camp, further widening the split.
09:23Meanwhile, Mamata's nephew, Abhishek Banerji, met Rahul Gandhi for over an hour and a half on Wednesday.
09:29This follows Mamata Banerji's meeting with Sonia Gandhi at Latta's home a day earlier.
09:36Rebel MPs now claim support of around 20 MPs, a key number under the anti-defection law.
09:43The Mamata camp, however, is disputing these figures.
09:46But in today's churn of Indian politics, 20 is no longer just a number.
09:51It is a threshold that can reshape alignments.
09:56With defections and realignments playing out across states and across parties,
10:00the larger question now is whether political morality itself has been reduced to arithmetic.
10:07Bureau Report, India Today.
10:13All right, viewers, the moot point of this debate and to the point this evening.
10:17Is there any political morality anymore?
10:20And are we increasingly normalizing political defections?
10:24Leaders who fought on a particular party ticket, leave the party, destabilize the party.
10:31Should they just quit and fight another election because they've come from a particular political party?
10:36Well, all of that being discussed right here, let's cut across to our panelists this evening.
10:41Joining me, Dr. Shantanu Sen, former TMC MP, ex-TMC spokesperson, not very happy where the way things have gone.
10:49Also joining me is Priyanka Chaturvedi, former Rajya Sabha MP from the Uddhav Sena faction.
10:57I'll cut across to Priyanka Chaturvedi in just a short while.
11:00Let's begin with Dr. Shantanu Sen.
11:02Dr. Shantanu Sen, what has made you resign from the TMC?
11:06You've been with Mamata Banerjee with over 15 years now.
11:10What made you decide to leave her at a juncture where she needed you most?
11:16See, Dr. Shantanu Sen doesn't belong to that group who are raising their voice after the miserable defeat of Chernobyl
11:23Congress
11:24or the Hilarion victory of BJP on 4th of May 2026.
11:28I am that person who in the year 2023 and 2024, when I was the sitting member of Rajya Sabha
11:37from Chernobyl Congress,
11:39I rose my voice against the corruption, financial corruption of Arjikor Medical College
11:46and the Hawaii incident that took place on 9th of August.
11:51I collected all the documents of corruption in the tune of crocs and crocs of rupees that took place in
11:57Arjikor Medical College
11:58and I submitted all the documents to the highest leader of the party and the highest person of the administration
12:04expecting justice.
12:07Unfortunately, despite getting justice, I was removed from that post.
12:12Then, during the Hawaii incident, me and my wife, who happens to be a doctor and a councillor of Calcutta
12:18Corporation,
12:18we also raised our voice and demanded justice.
12:22Then, not only I was suspended, my wife was accoled by the political goons supported by our local MMLM,
12:31Minister of Calcutta Medical College.
12:34Her student life was made miserable.
12:38Finally, I was stated that if you say further, if you move further,
12:42we will see how your daughter can become a doctor.
12:45So, finally, I was forced to remain silent.
12:49But my protest was since 2023 during the Himalayan huge corruption and in 2024 during the Awa incident.
12:57Now, after the public mandate went against the Nobel Congress, new government came in.
13:03Finally, I got confidence that at least those goons, those hooligans cannot damage me and my family further.
13:11So, I could get the opportunity to open my mouth once again, keeping full faith and trust on this new
13:17BJP government
13:19run by the dynamic and efficient Chief Minister, Mr. Shubindu Odhikari.
13:23One quick question, Dr. Sen, that I'm going to ask you.
13:25Many would suggest that this is political opportunism.
13:28You were with Mamata Banerjee.
13:29You took lots of political posts under her.
13:32You've been in the Rajya Sabha, sponsored by the TMC itself.
13:36And you're choosing to speak out right now once she has actually lost this election.
13:41Why were you quiet for so long?
13:43And what's your future?
13:45Are you going to join Ritabrata's side?
13:47Or are you joining the BJP?
13:49Where do you stand politically, Dr. Sen, now?
13:54I have already said long back that I am a doctor by profession and politician by passion.
14:02Neither I am going to leave my profession nor I am going to leave my passion.
14:06What we will do will be determined by the Almighty.
14:08I believe in God and He will be showing me the path.
14:13Okay, I want to cut across to now Priyanka Chaturvedi, Uddhav, from the Uddhav Shivseana faction.
14:20Lots was going about, Ms. Chaturvedi, at a time that you would be defecting very soon.
14:27How do you view the latest wave of defections, not just from the TMC, before that, from the
14:32Arm Admi Party as well?
14:33Leaders who were publicly pledging loyalty to Mamta Manerji, Arvind Kejriwal, in a matter of days, switched camps.
14:43I think what happened in Arm Admi Party was a very boutique formula applied by the Bharti
14:49Chanta Party these days to try and ensure that there is a two-third majority in any of the
14:54chambers, that they can't break the party.
14:55Schedule then says the party from top to bottom, right from the party office bearers to elected
15:00representatives, have to have a two-third split.
15:03Till then, the party's split is not considered legal or valid, or constitutionally valid.
15:09And we are fighting this case, Shubh Tseena is fighting this case in the Supreme Court.
15:12It's only unfortunate that the Supreme Court has not taken a decision on it.
15:15So they started a boutique idea of how splits will be engineered.
15:20So you need seven numbers in the Rajasabha, you are coming with seven numbers, so let's
15:24split you two-third and take you.
15:25So that is what happened with Arm Admi Party.
15:27In the case of TMC, a similar formula is being applied, but unfortunately we are seeing this
15:31kind of exodus happening, right from the MLA's to the members of parliament, and now we are
15:37seeing that play out in the Rajasabha.
15:39But I would also, you know, it shows a new dynamic, a new play that is out there in the
15:46political landscape now, where the politicians look at themselves as individuals, that they
15:52do their best in whichever party they are in, and when they see the party not being able
15:55to live up to their vision, their idea, they choose to move on.
15:58This is what is exactly happening, and political parties will sooner or later will start using
16:03and throwing individuals, and individuals will start making their choices depending on
16:07where they see themselves best fitting into.
16:09You know, we're going to bring in, we have other guests as well, but Priyanka Chaturvedi
16:12asking you a quick question.
16:13Do these defections reflect now a failure of political parties to meet aspirations of
16:18their leaders, or do they point to a larger problem of political morality, where politicians
16:23simply move towards better opportunities, opportunism at play?
16:26Because politics has now become a career choice, not an ideological choice.
16:33You know, I find it amusing simply because still a few months ago, there was this huge
16:38discussion happening on where Priyanka Chaturvedi is moving next.
16:41So Priyanka Chaturvedi is sitting right where she was sitting, but people have moved on
16:45from here to there.
16:46So the question here is, yes, there would be questions about opportunism, traitor, name
16:53calling, et cetera.
16:54And at the same time, even a political party will need to relook.
16:58And listen, to every politician, I'd say there are ups and downs in every political party.
17:02While I was in the Congress, I was accused many times of hopping over to the Shiv Sena.
17:06But even then, I was a member of the opposition and continue to be a member of the opposition.
17:11So for better future prospects or for better future identities, if your idea is something
17:17which doesn't hold good anymore, or is not winning the hearts of the people, then people
17:23are using that as a reason.
17:25I find that a little difficult to believe.
17:28For example, people who have stayed for decades with Mamta Banerjee, like Kakuli Dasupta,
17:34and I've heard her interview, she said she's been there even before Mamta Banerjee was in
17:38power.
17:39So she would have valid reasons.
17:41She must have her reasons.
17:43Okay, stay with me.
17:44I want to cut across to Rajiv Rai, Lok Sabha, MP from the Samajwadi Party as well, who's
17:48joining us.
17:49Rajiv Rai, with what is playing out in West Bengal, could also very quickly, sir, move towards
17:56what's going to happen in the state of Uttar Pradesh.
17:59Why do you see sudden, this spate of defections, leaders who are very loyal to a particular
18:06party, like Mamta Banerjee, before that even an Arvind Kejriwal, Aam Admi Party, taking days
18:11just to move ranks to another party?
18:14Is it opportunism or is there any form of ideology left?
18:22Why is ideology when they talk like this?
18:24Even after losing the election, I saw a few of the faces of the TV talking high about
18:30Mamta Banerjee and they didn't criticize.
18:32You could have accepted if they had criticized Abhishek or whatever the reason they are citing
18:37now before the assembly election.
18:39And let me assure you, whatever BJP may do, but they are not going to succeed in Uttar Pradesh,
18:45at least for sure you are telling.
18:46We have defeated them in 2024 and we are going to wipe them out from Uttar Pradesh in 27.
18:51That is, mark my word and I will be sitting with you after 27 results.
18:56But, I mean, still, I will tell you the few names like Satodhan, Sinaya, Sayani, Ghosh.
19:01I cannot digest.
19:02I don't know if they have signed really.
19:03I am not privy to that.
19:05I haven't seen that later on.
19:07Neither it came on your channel.
19:09But this is very unfortunate.
19:10It is not only betraying the party they, I mean, they are member of, but they are also
19:16betraying the voters who voted them from a particular party.
19:20If you are not agreeing, fine.
19:22If you have a certain point of time, you do not match your ideology or you feel the party
19:26is not doing for the reason why I have chosen this party, you better resign and go back to
19:30the public.
19:31Or, at least in this case, they could have criticized, they could have explained these
19:35issues before the election.
19:37Forget.
19:38After election, few people have known when these things went in the hibernation.
19:42But certain faces, who are still praising Mantaji, today, I mean, if they have said about other
19:48camps, you can't say anything.
19:50BJP, they started with the heart-steading, poaching, now breaking the parties.
19:54Now, this has become a trend of capturing the party.
19:57And this is not good for the public.
19:59This is not good for democracy.
20:01This is not good for any political party.
20:03No, the time is not all the time same.
20:07Fair point.
20:08But Rajiv Raji, every member of the TMC and I myself interviewed Shayani Ghosh right before
20:14the election said exactly what you were saying.
20:17The question is larger.
20:18Is there any political morality left?
20:20Is there political ideology even left in today's day and time?
20:23When you see leaders hop, skip and jump in a matter of days who have pledged allegiance,
20:29some for years, or some who clearly don't have the patience to sit in the opposition anymore.
20:34And are we somewhere down the line normalizing defections?
20:37No, I agree.
20:41I agree with you.
20:42There is no political morality left with this kind of characters.
20:45But you cannot say this cannot be a sweeping general statement everywhere to be applied.
20:49There are people.
20:50I am sitting here.
20:52I was elected before the U.P. Assembly election.
20:55I have been punished till today without, I mean, they found no mistake in my accounts.
21:00But income taxes are still harassing me.
21:01And I could have easily joined BJP to, you know, get into the washing machine and get clean sheet.
21:08There are people.
21:09There are people.
21:10But these people, you see, you have interviewed.
21:12I saw that in your interview before the election of the Saini Ghosh.
21:15I am talking that even after the result was out, Saini Ghosh had a different language for
21:21the Mamtaji.
21:22I mean, how today suddenly and then still if they talk about morality and value, I am sorry.
21:27I don't subscribe there, this kind of thinking.
21:29I don't subscribe.
21:31I mean, this is sheer opportunism.
21:33I mean, I don't know.
21:35You can't blame only BJP.
21:36BJP, of course, they are stepping down to any level to, you know, grab the power out there trying
21:41for two-third majority so they can get those bills cleared.
21:45But these people are also to be blamed who have, you know, gone to their side.
21:49Stay with me, sir.
21:50I just want to cut across to Mr. Shoghata Roy, Lok Sabha MP of the TMC, one of the very
21:55few,
21:56a handful of those who have decided to remain with Mamta Banuji.
22:02Shoghata Roy, what do you make of what is happening now?
22:05It seems in Lok Sabha, 19 of your colleagues, which is two-third of the MPs, have decided
22:12that they are leaving Mamta Banuji and Abhishek Banuji.
22:21And doing what?
22:23That is the question.
22:27I think that this is all a part of BJP's Operation Lotus.
22:32They are short of an absolute majority in Lok Sabha.
22:37They are 240.
22:38So they are trying to win over.
22:41Because of the bad results in West Bengal, people have become vulnerable.
22:47And most of these people, what Trinamul MPs are newbies.
22:52They neither have a political base nor deep political commitment.
22:58So liored by BJP's Operation Lotus offerings, they are going abroad to the BJP.
23:07They may say that they are forming a separate block.
23:11But in effect, it is becoming support to Modi.
23:18Because Modi is the leader of the NDA.
23:21And they are going that way because of threats or because of whatever allurements are offered to them.
23:33But Mr. Roy, is allegiance to Mamta Banuji so weak that leaders who have stayed with her,
23:39Kakuli Dastidar Ghosh, has fought with what you would call the good fight with Mamta Banuji.
23:44She has been out of power.
23:46She has lost five elections.
23:47Yet, she has decided to move on.
23:50Then there are those from 2011 who have joined and decided to move on.
23:53Is it so weak allegiance to Mamta Banuji that any kind of coercion or like you said,
24:01it could even be money involved, it's so easy to lure them?
24:03It's unfortunate that these people were with Mamta Banuji during a time in power.
24:12Kakuli is only a little senior.
24:15Before she won in 2009, she lost two assembly elections and won corporation elections.
24:21All with the, in spite of the support of Mamta Banuji.
24:27Then she became MP and has remained MP since then.
24:33This assembly election, she wanted a son to stand from Bharasa, which was declined.
24:40And before that, her husband was minister in Mamta Banuji's government.
24:45He lost that position.
24:48And now she was removed from the post of chief whip of the Thinamul parliamentary party.
24:54So, with these grouses, she led this so-called dissident movement.
25:00And apparently, she has been able to attract a few people.
25:06It's not just a few, Mr. Roy.
25:09It's 19 of the 28 MPs that you have.
25:12That's two-third of the MPs.
25:19Hello?
25:20Mr. Roy, it's not just a few MPs, but two-third of the MPs.
25:25Hello?
25:25You have 28 Lok Sabha MPs, 19 of them.
25:30Okay, we seem to have lost Mr. Shoghata Roy.
25:33We're going to try and cut across to her.
25:34I want to bring in Neerja Choudhury into this conversation.
25:36Appreciate the patience, Ms. Choudhury.
25:39I know you've been waiting for a while, but we've been getting one newsmaker after the other.
25:42But, Ms. Choudhury, larger question.
25:46Is there any political morality left in Indian politics?
25:50Because with what we've seen with the TMC,
25:52Till three days ago, you have a Sushmita Deb who comes out and takes on the BJP strongly
25:57and today is found sitting next to him, Manta Biswasarma.
26:00You have a Shaini Ghosh who one month ago, in an on-camera conversation,
26:04told me she's never going to leave Manta Banerjee's side.
26:07In all probability, is a signatory of one of the 19 names, which are the rebel faction.
26:12A month and a half ago, you have the backbone of the Aam Admi Party,
26:17the trusted lieutenants of the Aam Admi Party move away to the BJP.
26:24I think, you know, political morality has been not there for a long time.
26:32To say that suddenly this has happened, but you put your finger on the button, I think.
26:37Politics today is about, is like a career.
26:41It is not a commitment to an idea or an ideology or a desire to shape society, which was the
26:52case earlier.
26:53Therefore, even if you had adversity, you waited in the opposition,
26:58you bide your time for the next round, that I think is not there.
27:05People are getting impatient, they are aspirational, they don't have the time for it.
27:09And nor have they known it.
27:11In the case of Manta Banerjee, she's been in power for 15 years.
27:15So a lot of the youngsters would have only seen what came via the government route.
27:21To think of now being in the opposition when the party is so down, party, party is actually evaporating.
27:30You know, Manta Banerjee may have a handful of MPs left now.
27:34You talked about 19 out of 28 leaving.
27:37Many more may go.
27:40And Sushmita Dev, I mean, I have seen her over the years.
27:43She is a very serious politician.
27:46She is not, you know, she is there to do something and she has a history of her father.
27:52And therefore, for her to make the comment, you know, that you cannot have emotion in politics.
27:59That's a very harsh comment.
28:02It's like a reality check.
28:04And that I have to do whatever I have to do in Assam, not in West Bengal.
28:08Meaning she thought at one point TMC would give her the chance to do something in Assam.
28:14And it obviously didn't work out that way.
28:16So, you know, it's a very complex this.
28:18Yes, obviously the BJP is fishing in troubled waters.
28:21Absolutely.
28:22And it will.
28:23Yes, the BJP would like numbers in Parliament from the TMC as well as the DMK that it's wooing and
28:30having back channel conversations with.
28:33So, 40 and more MPs who are, you know, give it tacit support, will give it comfort level, may enable
28:41it to bring in laws that it wants to pass, may enable it to bring the Women's Reservation Bill and
28:47delimitation that it may be thinking of bringing in again and so on.
28:52But for the TMC, it has to look, why is this unravelling taking place so far?
29:00Is it only the BJP in the act or did things go wrong also in the way the party functioned?
29:07And I think those harsh questions need to be asked.
29:10I just want to bring in Priyanka Chaturvedi and I believe we have Saugato Roy still with us for one,
29:15you know, question each.
29:18Saugato Roy, taking off from what Ms. Chaudhuri, Neerja Chaudhuri is saying.
29:22Yes, that, you know, what you talk about inducement, coercion, maybe all of that is at play.
29:27But is there a reflection that the party could very well be breaking from within?
29:33Mamata Banerjee hasn't quite led her party in a manner that somewhere down the line, which instilled allegiance in her
29:42party men.
29:43Is there a reflection that something bigger than just coercion and allurement is at play here?
29:55Yes, what is the question?
29:56Sir, the question is, while, yes, you can blame the BJP of Operation Lotus, but is there an attempt at
30:05self-reflection where the TMC is concerned?
30:08Because you've had a mass exodus, 19 out of 28.
30:1210 can be lured, 12 can be lured, but 19 of 28, sir?
30:20Yes, it's a big number.
30:22It is unfortunate that the nominations given by Mamata Banerjee in 24 were not wise.
30:31She has given ticket to newbies, people who have no commitment, who have no ties to the grassroots,
30:40who are there for the fashion, cinema artists, actors, people who have no connection with politics.
30:50So, they are weak, in difficult situation, they are offered some freebies, and that's why they are jumping.
31:02It's utterly immoral, utterly unethical.
31:05Unethical that two years back, you were elected with a party symbol, and two years later, you are still MP,
31:14and you think that you should change parties.
31:16This is absolutely unacceptable, as far as I'm concerned.
31:20Fair point, sir. I'm glad at least you make the point that maybe there was a fault in giving out
31:25tickets by the party itself.
31:27So, there is a certain amount of blame that the party needs to shoulder of what's happening.
31:31I appreciate that honesty. Thank you, Mr. Roy, for joining us.
31:35I want to take one quick question from Priyanka Chaturvedi before we dip into a quick break.
31:39Priyanka Chaturvedi, carrying on our conversation from earlier, do you think, somewhere down the line, today, politicians, you've sat right
31:46next to Sushmita Deb.
31:47You know, at one point of time, Sushmita Deb and you were in the same party, which is the Congress.
31:53So, you've seen it firsthand.
31:55Do politicians today lack the patience to stay the course of ideology?
31:59Or has politics become a pure tool of career advancement?
32:04Whichever party gives you a better job profile, you go there.
32:11No, I do. Sometimes there are crossroads in my life, too, where I feel that politics, we are giving so
32:16much of our time, energy, efforts into something.
32:19And if it is not paying off, so we look at it from a perspective of career.
32:23However, being a member of the opposition, never having been in power, except for that brief period when we were
32:29in power in the state government,
32:31I would just say that I think we should stop labeling people on the basis of how we see politics
32:38was 30 years ago or 40 years ago.
32:40It has changed. Aspirations have changed.
32:43People who are coming into politics have come with a very changed mindset.
32:46Gen Z expects a lot from us.
32:48Gen Z expects us to speak their language.
32:50They also expect us to deliver.
32:51So, somewhere down the line, we are seeing people who are consolidating their own positions,
32:57vis-a-vis those who are in a rush to get whatever they have in their mind or to reach
33:03those goals.
33:04And as I see it, people are not judging them harshly.
33:07It's only me sitting in the television studios, etc., who are judging everyone harshly.
33:11But people are voting how they wish to vote.
33:16All right. Priyanka, I want to ask you one quick question.
33:18Are you still staying with the Shiv Sena or because there's a fair amount of speculation that you very well
33:25could be leaving as well?
33:30Absolutely. I think this entire game that is being played because of some loopholes that exist in the system needs
33:37to be abolished.
33:38Because, you know, as people who are representatives, they're supposed to teach morality and, you know,
33:46I would say professionalism to people down the road who are looking up to them.
33:50What we're losing in the long run is integrity, honesty and commitment to a cause.
33:56So, every individual who's looking at, let's say, one of these young Gen Z leaders who's moved to the other
34:01side,
34:02he's going to ask themselves, they're going to ask themselves the question,
34:05look, he continues to succeed despite hopping over, changing his ideas, ideology, etc.
34:10He's successful. Why should we not do it?
34:13So, we will become a citizenry of lesser integrity, lesser morality and lesser accountability.
34:21And that is why I believe whatever loopholes that exist in the Constitution,
34:26A, our Supreme Court, with all due respect to our Supreme Court,
34:29stop taking those holidays to London, etc., where you are right now.
34:33Please work towards strengthening our Constitution and actually striking down any such constitutional immorality
34:40that has happened over the past five years, six years, seven years, eight years,
34:43and set the ball rolling, that there's going to be zero tolerance to Constitution being, you know, misused
34:51for the virtue of being in power.
34:53Second, whatever loopholes that exist, tighten those.
34:56It is for this nation.
34:57It is not for our politics.
34:58What we leave behind would be a legacy which we will all be ashamed of when we read it 20
35:03years down the line.
35:04All right.
35:05So, you know, we recorded with Priyanka Chaturvedi a while ago,
35:08and this was a question where she had answered on whether there should be strong anti-defection laws.
35:13I also did ask her whether she's going to be leaving her party any time soon.
35:18There's so much speculation.
35:19She says, absolutely not.
35:20I'm staying put.
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