- 2 days ago
While running through a list of the worst draft busts in Dolphins history, Hoch and Crowder take issue with Solana’s claim that Tua was a miss during the Chris Grier era as GM.
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00:00Well, I don't want to put any bad juju on tonight's first draft
00:04for Sully with the Dolphins, but here is from Hal Habib
00:07in the Palm Beach Post, the Dolphins' biggest draft busts,
00:13the top 10 list.
00:14We all know number one, right?
00:17Deion Jordan.
00:18Deion Jordan.
00:19Yeah.
00:19He was drafted third overall following a trade up.
00:23He produced three sacks as a Dolphin, and he admitted on a podcast
00:27last year, I didn't have my life in order.
00:33He wasn't good at football either.
00:35Got to have your life in order, too.
00:37That seems to be like you've got to, I mean, part of drafting
00:41and selecting someone to work for your organization
00:43is measuring their character, and I'm not saying character meaning
00:46a guy with evil intent.
00:49I mean, someone who seems to have it together.
00:51You don't want to hire someone for your organization.
00:54I don't care if it's a bank.
00:55I don't care if it's a clothing store.
00:57Or a haberdashery, if you will.
00:59I don't care.
01:01I just wanted to use that.
01:03I was angry I said a clothing store without just saying a haberdashery.
01:09You grew up rough.
01:11You got some illegitimate kids.
01:13Whatever it is.
01:14Sooner or later, they're going to line up outside the tackle,
01:18and you have to go get to the quarterback.
01:19But if you're not even ready to grind, if you're not utilizing whatever made you
01:25into the great football player who you are, then that's a character flaw.
01:30What I'm saying, not a hard worker, someone who wasn't just mentally ready
01:35for the gig, and he wasn't.
01:37Because I was on probation still when I was drafted.
01:39Didn't he do well when he went to Seattle?
01:42No, he had one season where he played games in Seattle.
01:47Well, that was doing well for him.
01:48It was a lower barometer.
01:51They gave him the helmet.
01:53Yes.
01:54That's got to be one of the worst draft picks in NFL history.
01:58Well, I had later on today, I have a list of the 50 biggest draft busts in the last 50
02:04years.
02:04I don't know if we'll have a chance to get to it or not, but he is in the top
02:0850.
02:09Yeah, I mean, the idea that you would trade up for him in the top five
02:14and he, what, started one game for you?
02:19I have to look up the stats, but like one start for you?
02:23You traded assets to move up into the top five for him.
02:27Yeah, like that has to be one of the worst draft picks ever.
02:31I remember comparing him to Jason Taylor.
02:34I mean, he has the body of an Adonis.
02:37Oh, he's a good looking young man, but just, just couldn't, just couldn't get past alignment.
02:43Hal Habib says the second worst draft pick in Dolphins history is Eric Kummerow, who was taken in 1988.
02:52So I had just come down to University of Miami in 88 and the ticket wizard was my roommate and
03:00I didn't know any draft Knicks to that point in my life.
03:06Just wasn't in my realm and Barry lived or died with everything Miami Dolphins and the draft.
03:16He was as intense.
03:18I'd never seen someone like this before.
03:20And when they drafted Eric Kummerow, I thought this guy was going to jump out of the window of the
03:27Pearson Mahoney dorms.
03:31He was that terrible?
03:33Eric Kummerow, the headline in the Miami Herald after they drafted him was in big bold letters, who?
03:41With a question mark.
03:43No one had heard of him.
03:44And there wasn't the deep analysis that you get nowadays.
03:47You know what I mean?
03:48Like, cause you only got the newspaper and the magazines that covered the draft.
03:52Eric Kummerow was a defensive end out of Ohio state who I remember the story.
03:57He was playing racquetball when he was drafted because he didn't think he was going in the first round or
04:04the second round.
04:04He wasn't expecting his phone to ring.
04:08So he missed the call.
04:09He was playing racquetball.
04:10So he knew he wasn't that good.
04:14Number three, Don Reese out of Jackson state.
04:17This is 1974.
04:19That's Randy's draft.
04:21Is it?
04:22That's Don Reese is the guy that Randy went to jail with.
04:26Well, Hal Habib writes, it's not just his play that hurt the franchise.
04:30He was arrested for selling cocaine to other undercover agents and wrote a first person story about it.
04:37And pulled Randy in.
04:39Randy was just relaxing, watching some TV.
04:43Just going to spend tonight watching unsolved mysteries.
04:47Next thing you know.
04:48Hey, big Randy, want to ride with me?
04:51Yeah, I'll ride with you, brother.
04:52Come on.
04:53Number four, Jonathan Martin.
04:56Yeah.
04:57Hal Habib writes simply wasn't cut out for the NFL, as we all now know.
05:01So, and then put Richie Incognito in his room.
05:06Goodness gracious.
05:07Number five, Noah Igbenogany.
05:11Three years in Miami, five starts.
05:14One interception.
05:16A big one against Pittsburgh on Monday night football, but only one.
05:20Yeah.
05:21Yeah.
05:22Number six, worst draft pick in Dolphins history.
05:26Cam Smith.
05:28Already?
05:29Second round.
05:30Never started a game in his two NFL seasons, but still managed to have oodles of strained muscles.
05:39We could do one of these, like, just Chris Greer.
05:42You know, like, just Chris Greer mess ups.
05:45And Igbenogany, Tua, Cam Smith would all be in.
05:49Tua.
05:51Yeah.
05:53What?
05:55Tua's Eric Kummerow?
05:56You think he's a draft bust?
05:57I'm not saying he's a draft bust.
05:59Well, that's what the list is.
06:01If we're doing misses from Chris Greer, how could you not at this point?
06:04Tua's not a miss.
06:05You took him fifth overall, and six years later, he's not even in your organization anymore.
06:12You never won a playoff game with him.
06:13He's not a draft miss.
06:14You tanked for him.
06:15Did he lead the league in passing one season?
06:17Cam Smith.
06:18Cam Smith.
06:19What do you mean?
06:20Like, statistics don't matter?
06:22No, but what you do when you tank for a season, and you allow your general manager to rebuild
06:28your franchise and go draft a quarterback, and the quarterback taken directly behind him
06:33is still the face of an organization, and that quarterback had one season where he led the
06:39league in passing and never won a playoff game?
06:41You're going to tell me that's not a draft miss?
06:43What are you talking about?
06:44No, it's not.
06:44Did you hear Cam Smith?
06:46No starts in his entire Dolphin career.
06:49I'm not saying Tua would be ahead of Cam Smith or Igbenogany.
06:52I'm not saying.
06:53Like Igbenogany.
06:53You're saying Tua was that to the Dolphins?
06:56I'm saying he was a pro-ball quarterback in his number one offense in 2023.
07:00That can't be a bust.
07:01A list for Chris Greer specifically.
07:04I got you.
07:05A list for Chris Greer.
07:06I'm not saying Tua would be ahead of Cam Smith.
07:08I'm not saying he'd be ahead of Noig Igbenogany, but he would definitely crack a top 10 of the
07:13worst draft picks of Chris Greer's tenure.
07:14No, I believe he would crack the top 10 of best draft choices.
07:17Well, that goes to show you how bad Chris Greer was as a drafter, because you draft a quarterback
07:23in that instance, the context behind it, to be a franchise quarterback that's going to
07:28turn your organization around, and you didn't sniff a playoff victory.
07:32You didn't sniff one, and he was only available for one of those games because he missed half
07:37of the games that he should have been available for.
07:39Oh, stop it.
07:40He didn't miss half the games.
07:42Huck, he missed 12 games because of concussions.
07:45In five seasons?
07:47The Dolphins made two playoffs.
07:49He couldn't play in one, and then they missed the playoffs.
07:52But I'm saying he didn't miss half the games in his five seasons.
07:56He didn't.
07:57You're making something up.
07:59Ridiculous.
08:00Still caping up for Tua.
08:02Because Tua, you know, everyone's got to do their part, right?
08:08The defense needs to do their part.
08:10The offense needs to do their part.
08:13I mean, Christ Almighty, the guy throws for over 4,000 yards, leads the league in passing.
08:18I'm not going to say that Tua didn't do his part that season.
08:22But you love to focus on one season.
08:26One season when his first two years with Brian Flores, and that's fine, you want to give
08:31him a pass, that's fine, but he wasn't impressive.
08:33And then in his first year with Mike McDaniel, he couldn't finish the season because he was
08:39concussed and out because of the hit, the two hits that he took.
08:44He had the one year he led the league in passing.
08:47Guess what?
08:47He still got rocked in your only playoff appearance with him.
08:50And then the following two seasons, he literally couldn't stay on the field because of injury.
08:55So he was not an asset to the team.
08:57He's a bust.
08:59In my opinion, when you draft a quarterback with the fifth overall pick after tanking
09:05a season to go draft him, and you add the context that the guy picked directly behind
09:10him is a true pro-ball caliber quarterback, then yes.
09:14You can't compare him to Justin Herbert.
09:15That's not fair.
09:16You have to talk about what he did with the Dolphin because you can't judge.
09:20So everyone taken before Tom Brady, every quarterback taken was a bust then because Brady was available
09:26all the way to the fifth round.
09:28That's not a fair barometer.
09:29You have to judge what he did for the Dolphins, period, not what Justin Herbert might have
09:35done.
09:36Tua's value.
09:38Tua's value to the team.
09:40Right.
09:40And I'm only comparing him to Justin Herbert from the standpoint of Justin Herbert drafted
09:46in the same draft as Tua.
09:48One pick behind Tua is still considered the face of his organization and is still putting
09:53his team in a position to win games and go to the playoffs.
09:55That's fine, but I'm not debating that.
09:57And Tua is not even here anymore because they lost faith in his ability to play quarterback.
10:01How could you not compare the two?
10:03But if you look at his numbers, in other words, you look at Cam Smith, two starts.
10:08Deion Jordan, one start or two starts.
10:10When you say a bust, those are way worse.
10:12Those are way worse.
10:13Tua.
10:13Tua.
10:14Is he more valuable than Chop Robinson has been?
10:18Yes.
10:19Cam Smith.
10:20Yeah, but again, I'm not debating that.
10:23I'm not debating that.
10:23I just said that you have Chop Robinson as a draft pick.
10:26A miss.
10:27You said he's a miss.
10:29Chop Robinson is on there.
10:31Chop Robinson is entering his first season.
10:32Is Austin Jackson, Salon, is Austin Jackson a bust?
10:35No.
10:35He can't be a bust.
10:36He's still your starting right tackle.
10:37He missed as many games as Tua, and he's not even a great tackle.
10:40But the barometer for Austin Jackson is just that he's a starter because that's what
10:44Tua was.
10:45But you're comparing offensive tackle to the quarterback, the guy who's supposed to lead
10:50your organization after 20 years of not winning a playoff game that you tanked for.
10:55You tanked for him.
10:57Mike Gusecki, more valuable?
10:59No.
11:00Charles Harris, more valuable?
11:01But we're not discussing if they're more valuable.
11:03No, you're calling him a bust.
11:05Let's talk about what a bust is.
11:07I never use the word bust.
11:09Let's talk about what a bust is.
11:09A bust.
11:09I never use the word bust.
11:10A miss is kind of a bust.
11:12A draft bust is Deion Jordan.
11:14He was an absolute bum, and you never should have taken him there.
11:17A draft miss is when you have the opportunity to draft somebody who puts your organization
11:23in a much better spot when he leaves.
11:26And guess what?
11:27He didn't.
11:28When he leaves, how about he puts you in a better spot when he's there?
11:31Hawk, by the time Tua and the Dolphins' tenure ended, you wanted to be in a better position
11:37than you were at some point throughout the course of his career.
11:42And you weren't.
11:43You were in the exact same spot.
11:44You got to two playoff games.
11:46You were blown out in both playoff games.
11:49You only played in one.
11:50Yeah, but you could.
11:51I could play the opposite of that.
11:53I could say the offense was more potent than it had been in a very long time.
11:57If you want to say better spot than it was before.
12:00They had made two consecutive playoffs, didn't they?
12:03Yes.
12:04Yeah.
12:05I mean, better spot than it had been in a long time.
12:08Like, better spot is, I mean, that's really negotiable.
12:11Jalen Waddell, Jalen Phillips, Austin Jackson, Noah Monogany, Kristen Wilkins, none of them
12:18led you to a playoff win either.
12:19I mean, Jalen Waddell's a miss to that, right?
12:21Mika Fitzpatrick, Mike Gusecki.
12:23They're not quarterbacks.
12:23What's a miss and a bust?
12:25Because that's where you're playing this little word game.
12:27It's not.
12:28I'm considering the fact that when you tank for a season and you take a quarterback in
12:33the top five, that context matters when you're comparing them to, for example, Jalen Waddell,
12:39who was drafted the following year.
12:41You took a wide receiver.
12:43The expectations for a wide receiver aren't the same for a quarterback.
12:46And by the way, Jalen Waddell had a much better Dolphins career than Tua Tungavailoa did.
12:51But he didn't leave them in a better spot.
12:53That was your barometer two seconds ago.
12:57He was the one and didn't do anything.
12:59He's not a quarterback.
13:00Didn't do anything.
13:01He had 3,000-yard seasons.
13:03Like, don't act like Jalen number two behind a Hall of Fame receiver on the other side.
13:08Tua is the fourth leading passing yardage quarterback in Dolphins history.
13:13Yeah, but Crowder is the sixth leading tackler.
13:16Well, I think they were measuring offensive stats well before they were measuring defensive stats.
13:20We got to move on because Omar Kelly is going to join us.
13:23We have a loaded potato.
13:24It's a good topic.
13:25We just don't have time.
13:26The rest of the list from Hal Habib.
13:29Cam Smith is six.
13:30Jackie Shipp is seven, if you guys remember him.
13:34Jamar Fletcher in 01 is eight.
13:38Jason Allen, your friend, Crowder.
13:41Oh, goodness gracious.
13:42Is nine.
13:44Hal Habib writes, Dolphins passed over Devin Hester for a roll guy.
13:48Too low.
13:49Too far down the list.
13:50And number 10, Charles Harris.
13:54Yeah.
13:55A man who Solana believes was more important than Tua.
13:58Charles Harris.
13:59Charles Harris tore his ACL.
14:01I'm pretty sure this is what happened.
14:02He tore his ACL in like the first or the last preseason game before the season.
14:07And then just never saw him again.
14:10I'm pretty sure that's what happened with Charles Harris.
14:12All right.
14:12Let's do a quick look at the headlines.
14:14Omar Kelly is going to join us today.
14:16Our friend Finesse Mitchell is going to join us today.
14:19And Rob Pizzola, if you want to wager on the draft tonight, there's draft props.
14:23Rob Pizzola's got some action tonight.
14:26Headlines brought to you by Durrell Volkswagen.
14:28You always pay less with your pricito at Durrell Volkswagen.
14:31Visit them at Durrell Volkswagen or DurrellVolkswagen.com.
14:34Maybe not.
14:35Maybe I'm confusing it with like Raekwon McMillan or somebody like that.
14:38There was somebody the Dolphins drafted last preseason game as a rookie season.
14:42Tore his ACL and then came back the following year and just wasn't the same guy.
14:47Very Dolphins-esque.
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