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00:00If it is possible to frame the Basilica of Santa Polinare where Emanuela Orlandi's brother Pietro is with
00:07our correspondent who has always dealt with Emanuela Orlandi for many years, so much so that his reconstructions
00:15Now they are taken, excuse me if I say it, for real because we see on the news a girl getting into a car,
00:20I want to warn all the directors and journalists that in reality that is the reconstruction of Fiore di Rienzo, not
00:25It really is Emanuela Orlandi and therefore we would not want to go into control.
00:31So, I see Fiore, excuse the joke, and Pietro particularly dressed up, I think for the Vatican gendarmes who will have come
00:38I wonder if I'll be taking pictures again today, you look very elegant.
00:40If they ever photograph us, at least if they photographed us we'd make a good impression.
00:44I'm making a good impression, jokes aside, but you have to face such a tough show sometimes.
00:50our battles with a smile, you are in front of the Basilica of Santa Polinare.
00:54So, the director frames this Basilica for me, among other things I see many young people passing by, frame this Basilica for me because
01:02with this Basilica and with Fiore and Pietro I would like to hear again the phone call that arrived in the editorial office in July
01:12of 2005 by an anonymous person,
01:14then the prosecution says that perhaps he knows he knows the name, but for us it has always been anonymous and
01:19who told us this, from there came our obsession we can say for this Basilica and for this
01:25burial.
01:26Let's broadcast it.
01:29Regarding the case of Emanuele Orlandi, to find the solution to the case, go and see that he is buried in the grave
01:35of the Basilica of Santa Polinare and of the favor that Renatino did for Cardinal Poletti at the time.
01:42So, let's put the Basilica back, so, Fiore sorry, for our viewers who don't know this Basilica, you can with
01:52our register Maurizio Amici makes us understand where Emanuele Orlandi who had gone to give the lesson came from
01:58of music?
02:00Yes, look, we are now framing the Basilica, the church of Santa Polinare, the Chamber, but now
02:10In a moment, once this overview is finished, I can show you the entire complex, if Marco follows me, there on the right
02:21we can see where the police car is now, that's the door,
02:27the car is leaving, that is the door from which Emanuela and
02:37let's say that from this point that we are framing at this moment, she met some of her classmates, she
02:44I reached another friend at the bus stop nearby, but from that point onwards we disappeared.
02:52If we can widen the frame we can see this building which on the third floor housed the Ludovico da
03:03Vittoria and continuing in the overview now on the left we see that it is a single complex that is adjacent but in reality
03:14it is even connected from the inside
03:16to the basilica or church of Santa Pollinare which at the beginning of the year, in March 1990, entered
03:29the body of De Bedis who was killed in February on the street in Via del Pellegrino in Rome.
03:37He's dead and killed, let's say it, because when it's said that he was a benefactor in these Vatican documents...
03:43They are all on our site if you want to see them, I also say this to the politicians who are looking for them because in government,
03:49because we've had them on our site for a long time, we show them every now and then.
03:52So, in this regard, the flower of the ianza that I made, I heard from Emanuele Orlandi's mother,
03:58Maria, every now and then we ask her if she wants to tell us something because something important has happened, they were
04:06these agencies come out in rapid succession inside the Vatican, does anyone know, inside the Vatican Maria, the mother of
04:13Emanuele Orlandi, you can imagine what this means for the family, right?
04:18No, I knew something like that. What's going on? Maria had told us she'd always left the key.
04:24in the lock, in the hope that her daughter could one day reopen that door.
04:29But what does she think of De Pedis's tomb? Let's hear it.
04:37It seems like yesterday to me, every time there's news it seems like it happened recently, that's it.
04:43That's why the years go by, that's how it is. I think this way, when there's news, as long as from a
04:52At one moment something good comes out, but then everything goes silent, all silence and we go back to normal again
04:59to normal life, with waiting.
05:02But what good thing would it be?
05:04A return of Emanuela.
05:06That's how it is, Maria, we know it well. Her certainty is unassailable. But has she ever thought that Emanuela could be...
05:16died 29 years ago?
05:18No. Never, never. Many times, daughters, Mom, you have to think about it. No, for me, she's alive. She's alive. I feel it.
05:29alive and so it is. That's why I dreamed it.
05:34I hope that wherever she is, she is well, that she has not continued to suffer as we have suffered.
05:43us.
05:44And what was the dream like?
05:45Beautiful, beautiful. She was in a huge meadow, her hair long, with a book, reading.
05:55So, Emanuela, I'm far away, but what are you doing there? Why don't you go home?
06:01He says, look mom, turn around and see that person over there.
06:05Then I turned around and saw a large person.
06:09He says, that one is guarding me and I can't move from here.
06:15That's how the dream ended, that's it.
06:19But we are here to talk about reality, which this time manifests itself through a series of agency releases,
06:25of news spread between Monday and Tuesday.
06:28Almost in response to the question time affair in the Chamber between the Honourable Veltroni and Minister Cancellieri,
06:33Monday 2 April, Omni Roma at 5.01pm,
06:38The Addi at 5.04pm,
06:40Ansa at 5.05pm,
06:43they report that it would not be the intention of the investigators,
06:46who are investigating the disappearance of Emanuele Orlandi,
06:49open the tomb where Enrico De Pedis is buried.
06:53And Omni Roma reminds that the head of the investigation,
06:56the deputy prosecutor of Rome Giancarlo Capaldo,
06:58He had already inspected the crypt about two years ago
07:01and that the need to go and open the tomb
07:04it is no longer considered necessary by investigators,
07:07for which it is unlikely that other people could be found inside.
07:12Have you ever thought that in the crypt of Santa Pollinare
07:18if I bring Enrico De Pedis there could also be...
07:22Ninth.
07:25No.
07:26I absolutely don't think so.
07:29There are two things.
07:30It's not possible, no.
07:32Emanuele is definitely being taken there.
07:34There is no reason.
07:37And the fact that he has a tomb there
07:41Is this something that makes you indignant and worries you?
07:44No, no, no, absolutely not.
07:46He can live there until the universal dilution comes.
07:51But he is there and we don't know where Emanuele is.
07:57So why doesn't someone brag and tell the truth?
08:02And the news agencies of Monday, April 2nd, still speak of the alleged custodians of this truth.
08:09First down there at 5.07pm, then launch at 5.17pm.
08:13Vatican officials are said to be aware of the truth about Emanuele Orlandi's disappearance.
08:19and what the investigators of the Rome prosecutor's office report.
08:23But the Vatican can't open up, that's it.
08:28Even if someone knows something, not everyone knows, not all of them.
08:33But there is an important character, without a doubt, in this kidnapping of Emanuele.
08:39So, do you think there's an important person behind Emanuele's disappearance?
08:43Certainly. They can't be people of only two, as was said.
08:49Does she still live in the Vatican?
08:51Yes, yes, but nobody says anything.
08:54And who knows how many times I pass by and they see me, as I go into the garden to pray,
09:01like with Ercoli, instead it's Sundays, I'm alone at home,
09:07then he takes it and I go out into the garden.
09:09To the Vatican Gardens?
09:10At the Vatican Gardens.
09:12And perhaps on these walks he meets someone who knows the truth.
09:17Of course, he should confess.
09:20I forgive him too, for goodness sake, after so many years,
09:23at least just to satisfy Emanuele that he lives,
09:26it is located in such a place, far from Italy.
09:29I speak, I tell, I pray, but not even the saints have moved.
09:36For many years I have been carrying this lump, this thought, inside me.
09:42open your heart, open it openly that I forgive.
09:47I don't care about all those years of waiting, of pain, of disappointment.
09:54No.
09:55A kind word, I would be happy.
10:02And who knows, maybe Maria's hope will find comfort in further initiatives.
10:06which the new prosecutor of Rome, Giuseppe Pignatone, seems to want to take.
10:11In a meeting on April 3rd, yesterday, at 1.20pm,
10:15referring to the issue of the failure to open the tomb
10:18and of the truth known by Vatican personalities,
10:22he stated
10:22the statements and assessments on the proceedings for the disappearance of Emanuele Orlandi,
10:27attributed by some media to anonymous investigators from the Rome prosecutor's office,
10:33they do not express the position of the office.
10:36And then, any further investigative initiative on the aforementioned procedure
10:41will be directed and coordinated by the same attorney
10:44who assumed responsibility for the district anti-mafia directorate.
10:50Let us hope that God will enlighten these people.
10:56Look, the tension and sometimes even the confusion surrounding this case
11:01It makes you understand how delicate Emanuele Orlandi's story is.
11:05So, what's going on?
11:07Which is not even clear, after a question from Veltroni,
11:12the Basilica, whether it is part of the Vatican or not.
11:15So, let's go back to that Basilica for a moment.
11:17Let's hear what Minister Cancellieri said.
11:20For us, when we talk about it, we talk about it, it's very important.
11:23So absolutely no criticism, because they had not put the Minister in a position to do so.
11:26to know about this Basilica, which is owned only by the Vatican State,
11:32whether we are abroad or not.
11:34So, let's see what happened.
11:36The Minister says that the authorization of a governor was needed,
11:42of the governor of the Holy See, of the Vatican, to place the tomb of De Pedis.
11:46We were immediately alarmed and said, but it's not like Marcinkus' signature is there.
11:51We hear from the Minister and then Giuseppe Rinaldi at the press conference on the phenomenon of the missing.
11:58For burials in places located within the Vatican City,
12:03it finds application in a provision of a derogating and special nature,
12:07according to which the introduction of the bodies from the territory and from the Kingdom of Italy,
12:12in the Vatican City State, authorized by the governor of that same State.
12:18The governor was Sebastiano Baggio, the pro-governor was Monsignor Paul Casimiro Marcinkus.
12:26It would be very important for us to know if the Italian State has that document
12:32and see who signed, because the story of Emanuele Orlandi is closely linked
12:39to some people, including Monsignor Paul Casimiro Marcinkus.
12:45It is a transfer from a cemetery in Rome to a church in Rome,
12:49so the document is a document from the municipality of Rome.
12:53So let's say what she said during this on-time falls,
12:56I mean, Saint Polinare, she said she was practically...
13:00Because it's extraterritorial, in fact then we did...
13:02He checked.
13:03I gave the answer on the documents that were on file,
13:05we did the in-depth study I promised on the same day,
13:10and the extraterritoriality of Santa Polinare is only and exclusively
13:14a fiscal extraterritoriality.
13:16Perfect.
13:16Therefore this provision is not necessary...
13:20And in any case we provide you with all the elements,
13:22I'll give you a precise written answer on the texts.
13:24Thank you, you were very kind.
13:29So we understand, they gave wrong documents at the beginning,
13:32so the minister was good at it because she put everything back in line.
13:36Excuse me Fiore De Rienzo, but the minister says that all that is needed is
13:39the authorization of the municipality of Rome and says that it was not from the Vatican.
13:43You want it instead... you want to talk to us about this document
13:46which says something else instead, right?
13:48That of the municipality of Rome.
13:50Yes, then, in the municipality of Rome there is probably a misunderstanding,
13:53arises from the fact that the De Pedis family,
13:55when he asks for permission to exhume the body from Verano,
14:00where she had been buried three days after her death,
14:03to take her elsewhere,
14:05He talks about a move to the Vatican City.
14:10In reality, as Minister Cancellieri rightly said earlier,
14:16this church behind me does not enjoy extraterritoriality,
14:21which is the one enjoyed by the Vatican,
14:23but only of extra-taxation,
14:26that in this period of IMU and discussions about IMU,
14:30whether the church has to pay for it or not,
14:32it's back in the news.
14:33If we can show the document,
14:35Sorry, you were quoting a document that I haven't seen,
14:38I think so, at least I haven't seen it.
14:40Here it is, the document from the municipality of Rome.
14:42We're seeing it.
14:42But this document from the municipality of Rome says,
14:45so I didn't understand if the municipality of Rome is wrong,
14:48but here everyone is wrong,
14:50However, for De Pedis it was very easy to enter this basilica.
14:53Here it is, it's over.
14:55De Pedis is in the Vatican City State,
14:57so state, Vatican City.
14:59So, at this point, we would like to understand if the municipality signed an incorrect document.
15:04Sorry Fiore, but it's clear between us then,
15:07because we're not really that interested in the procedure.
15:10We've always said, look,
15:12De Pedis died practically seven years after Emanuele Orlandi,
15:15so it's not like someone kept Emanuele Orlandi's body
15:18and then he put it in De Pedis's tomb.
15:20Whose did we see it? The opening of the tomb?
15:22We didn't ask for it.
15:23We are talking, let's say, about something else.
15:25What happened to Emanuele Orlandi?
15:27Is there something behind it?
15:28In short, we dig as best we can with our own strength.
15:31Flower, we want to broadcast, because I have to say,
15:33you are hosted somehow in the ground near the Basilica.
15:37Nobody kicked you out, we're happy.
15:40However, in short, while Don Vergari asked for authorization
15:44to put one of the Roman scoundrels there,
15:49Poletti gave him the authorization,
15:51and whoever now manages this basilica really finds himself with a problem,
15:57because he explains to us that there are even people who go there not to see the basilica,
16:02but they say we can see De Pedis' tomb,
16:04that is, it's really crazy.
16:06So, what's going on?
16:07That Lilli Viccaroteo went to ask some questions with our Livio Carboni
16:12and he kindly replied to us like this.
16:15And he is the head of the Basilica Oggi in place of Don Vergari.
16:20Yesterday you said you are cooperative and want the truth about this girl.
16:25Is that so?
16:26Yes, that's right.
16:27I imagine that not only I, but everyone thinks like me.
16:33She said she was available, absolutely available,
16:37to have the body of Enrico De Pedis transferred.
16:40Let's see.
16:41I have nothing to do with the transfer of Enrico De Pedis's body,
16:45I have no authority to keep her here or to transfer her,
16:51because that's not my job.
16:53Rector, whose task is this?
16:55I do not know.
16:57I do not know.
16:58And did the De Pedis family also say they were available?
17:00If I understand correctly, the lawyers of the De Pedis family
17:04They made a statement saying that they will transfer the body.
17:09Did they talk to her too?
17:11No.
17:12Does the De Pedis family have no contact with you?
17:15No.
17:16The De Pedis family says they are willing to transfer him.
17:20Yes.
17:20You're available to transfer him, but is De Pedis here?
17:23Yes, but there is a prosecutor's trial still ongoing.
17:27I imagine that De Pedis' body cannot be moved.
17:31as long as this process is still open.
17:35Rector, did anyone from the prosecutor's office contact you by chance in recent days?
17:38Not these days.
17:40In the past, yes, though?
17:41Four years ago, I think.
17:43Four years ago.
17:44There's a rumor going around.
17:46It is true that the De Pedis family asked you to return all the money
17:50that had been paid?
17:51No, absolutely not.
17:52Absolutely not?
17:53Also because the De Pedis family didn't pay me a single lira.
17:58Does the De Pedis family have the key to the tomb alone, or do you, as a Basilica, also have it?
18:04No, we as the Basilica do not have the key.
18:06Don't you have the key?
18:08I see it, but I imagine he will have it, the key.
18:12That is, I'm not going into this place anymore.
18:16As rector, can't you enter?
18:18No, because it's an out-of-the-way place, absolutely marginal.
18:24May I ask you, as a man of the church, what you think of the fact that De Pedis is buried here?
18:30Well, as a man of the church I pray for the De Pedis family, for the Orlandi family,
18:36for journalists, for the faithful who come or those who come to church to visit the De Pedis tomb
18:43and that's what I can do, I'll leave the rest up to you.
18:46Rector, are those who come to ask about De Pedis' tomb faithful?
18:53What kind of people are they?
18:54I imagine that there are all sorts of believers and unbelievers.
18:57No, they're actually waiting for me.
18:59A thousand thanks.
19:04I thank him because we have become really annoying.
19:07The Fiore line is yours, Pietro.
19:09Yes, Federica, I believe that at this point Pietro will intervene on two fundamental points,
19:17who are the ones who then animated this week,
19:20this week that naturally brought us here.
19:24The two news, as we heard earlier in the service with Maria,
19:27I'm someone who got the news from the prosecutor's office that they think,
19:32that a Vatican personality, therefore not just any official or someone passing by,
19:39but ecclesiastical personalities evidently know the truth about Emanuele's fate.
19:44And the other is this announced decision, at least until the denial of the new prosecutor Pignatone,
19:54to never open the tomb again.
19:57So, first of all, I wanted to ask you something.
19:59You had already met Father Pedro, the rector of the church,
20:03and there is a very interesting detail that concerns not so much De Petis' tomb,
20:08but the place where De Petis' tomb is, right?
20:12Yes, no, I met him a few weeks ago, he was very kind to me.
20:19I learned something specific, which is somehow connected to the statement just made by the prosecutor's office.
20:28That is, according to the prosecution, that tomb can no longer be opened,
20:31because there is no evidence that could lead the investigation forward,
20:35because there is only that grave and there are no other people.
20:37But in the meantime the tomb has not been opened, because the first inspection was only a visual inspection.
20:44They came in, took a look, saw that the tomb was there and that was it.
20:48The second thing is that there was an ossuary there.
20:50An ossuary, when the structure, the Basilica of Santa Polinare and the school of Emanuela,
20:56so the whole block was bought by Opus Dei,
21:00renovation work has been done and the parish priest, who spoke a little while ago, who is a coroner,
21:05he witnessed the opening of this trapdoor where there was this ossuary
21:10and all the skeletons that were wrapped in sheets were placed in some boxes
21:15and walled up behind a wall.
21:19So, if you want to say that there are no grounds for investigating,
21:24In my opinion, it's wrong, because if you want, there are plenty of decent bones in there.
21:29We always remember, Pietro, that Emanuela disappeared from here.
21:33Yes, it disappeared here.
21:34Personally, look, I don't think Emanuela is inside the Basilica,
21:39but if two years ago they took our DNA samples,
21:42They said they would open the tomb, it means there were valid reasons.
21:46If there were valid reasons two years ago, I don't know why those reasons no longer exist now.
21:52Pietro, Fiori, yes, then I thank you.
21:55Then I want to say, Peter said something very important,
21:57there is not only De Pedis' tomb there.
21:59Since we know that she dropped out of Flute school, she never took the bus.
22:03We don't know what happened to Emanuela, we have always taken many paths,
22:06but it is clear that we are in the dark.
22:08So, if you can, since...
22:09I am a thing, can I?
22:10Please, quickly, sorry Peter.
22:13Please.
22:13No, no, it was about the other clarification, the other statement,
22:17when they say that Vatican officials know the truth about Emanuela.
22:22At this point we cannot always hide behind silence and a code of silence.
22:26So I hope that the Secretary of State, Cardinal Bertone,
22:29tomorrow, but not in a week, a month, a year,
22:32make a decision, take an official position on this Emanuela affair,
22:36because this time they were heavily implicated.
22:39An international rogatory letter shouldn't even be needed to interrogate them.
22:42The only rogatory depends only on their conscience.
22:47So now it's just up to them to help us clarify this situation.
22:52Thank you Pietro, thank you Fiore.
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