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11:21Sous
11:27C'est ce qui s'est passé à la femme, Leslie Howell.
11:38Chaque fois que Hazel Stewart était en court,
11:40les sales d'entre elles augmentaient.
11:45Les gens ne pouvaient pas avoir de cette histoire.
11:48Ils voulaient de savoir chaque aspect.
11:49Ils voulaient de savoir qui elle était.
11:52Qui il était.
11:56Ils voulaient de savoir ce qui s'est passé à l'involvement de la Church.
12:02Le sort de vie que ces gens,
12:04que nous sommes complètement liés à la vie de ces gens,
12:07ce qui s'est passé à l'involvement de la Churchia,
12:09ce qui s'est passé derrière les scènes.
12:10Et les gens voulaient de savoir chaque partie de la Churchia.
12:15C'était une histoire que, comme un journaliste,
12:17vous êtes en train d'être dans la street par des gens et vous demandez ce qui s'est passé.
12:20Ils voulaient de savoir la partie de l'unprintable de la Churchia.
12:52Sous-titrage Société Radio-Canada
12:53et toutes les familles connectées à ce sujet
12:55ont été impactées.
12:58Nous mourrons notre mère, Lesley,
13:00et nous sommes doublés par le temps et les souvenirs
13:02dont nous avons été donc déniés.
13:04Nous rejoins dans la contribution notre mère a fait à nos vies
13:07dans le long de temps que nous avons été ensemble.
13:10Nous savons qu'elle a été une mère de l'amour, dévouée,
13:13et nous regrettons la faible façon qu'elle a été pris de nous.
13:43Sous-titrage Société Radio-Canada
13:49Sous-titrage Société Radio-Canada
13:50...
14:01...
14:03de l'interesse point de vue, vous couvrez le jour et d'aile d'un murdé trial.
14:06Mais vous ne pouvez pas penser que quelque chose d'autre qui s'est passé derrière les scènes.
14:10Je veux dire, ces enfants sont showing up pour protéger leur mère.
14:13Et nous savons que le bond entre la mère et la fille est très fort.
14:16Mais quand elle est accusée de quitter leur père, il y a clairement une histoire derrière cette histoire.
14:24Nous voulons notre père et notre mère, vous savez,
14:28donc nous n'avons pas pris des sides.
14:30Nous n'avons pas vouloir ce qui s'est passé à notre père,
14:34mais nous avons perdu notre père et nous n'avons pas vouloir notre mère.
15:02...
15:02...
15:02...
15:02...
15:02...
15:15...
15:17...
15:17...
15:18...
15:19...
15:20...
15:22...
15:23...
15:25...
15:31...
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15:33...
15:34...
15:35...
15:40...
15:41...
15:43...
15:45...
15:47...
15:49...
15:49en un scénario qui a causé le horrible outcome de la mort de deux personnes.
15:56Mais je pense qu'ils acceptent et entendent
16:00que le niveau de complicité, si c'est le droit à dire,
16:04est tellement différent de ce qu'il s'est dit dans le court
16:09et dans les procédures de légal.
16:14Côline Hale était un peu d'un figure.
16:17Il était quelqu'un qui était très intelligent et très éducatif.
16:20Il me semble que les femmes, surtout les femmes dans le monde,
16:25en ce qui religieux, pensées, et qu'il était un peu de contrôle.
16:29Il était un peu de leur religion et un peu de leur faith.
16:31...
16:37...
16:39Le problème, le concept de crime, de coerce de contrôle,
16:44n'a pas été évolué ou développé à l'époque,
16:47c'est-à-dire 20 ans à l'époque.
16:50Et bien sûr, dans les dernières années,
16:53cela a été émergé comme une très sérieuse criminelle issue,
16:58ce qui est régulièrement cité et réferé,
17:04quand on parle de toutes les formes d'abuse
17:06par un partenaire ou par un autre,
17:08ou dans tous les autres relations,
17:10c'est une offence criminelle.
17:14Ce que nous essayons de faire,
17:15quelques années après,
17:17c'est essayer de recalibrer la position
17:22dans la case de Hazel Stewart et de son défense.
17:36C'est-à-dire des choses qui sont 18 ans,
17:40je ne sais pas, je ne sais pas,
17:43je ne sais pas, je ne sais pas,
17:44je ne sais pas,
17:45je ne sais pas,
17:46parce que c'est pas ce que je fais,
17:48de la information que je donne.
17:49Je sais pas ceci pour plus de 15, 16 ans.
17:54C'est un journaliste,
17:55ça a fasciné tout ce temps.
17:59J'ai travaillé dans le journalisme
18:01pour 36 ans,
18:02et ça a été une des des plus fascinants
18:04de ma carrière.
18:07Quand vous écoutez ces tapes,
18:10ils sont très détaillés.
18:12Ils sont très, très calme.
18:13Vous savez,
18:14ses calmes créent turmoil.
18:17Et...
18:17Il est très polite.
18:20Il est très helpful.
18:21Il est très mannerique.
18:23Ses grammaires parfaites.
18:26Et ses accentes
18:28et ses très middle-classes
18:31je trouve ça fascinant.
18:34C'est un programme très intéressant.
18:35Ça montre qui est Colin Howell.
18:36C'est qui,
18:37qui il était.
18:39Tout les aspects de Colin Howell
18:41sont dans ces tapes.
18:43C'est l'incrédible.
18:44Et c'est l'écriture
18:44d'un jour le public
18:45a vu d'écriture.
18:47Et je crois que
18:48la plupart des gens
18:48des fascinants
18:49comme je l'ai trouvé.
18:52Les tapes,
18:53on a fait Colin's version
18:54de ce events.
18:55Et Colin's version
18:56triggered
18:57Hazel Stewart's version.
18:59Et Hazel Stewart's version
19:00C'est différent de Colin's version.
19:03Quand j'ai décidé de venir ici,
19:09je crois que c'était la chose correcte.
19:13Je savais que c'était grand.
19:17Je n'avais pas la vision de voir comment c'était grand.
19:33C'est un peu plus de l'hiver.
19:34Le pays de Castlederic fait plus que beaucoup d'hiver.
19:37Depuis des années, il y a eu 30 bombes sur le centre.
19:40Et plus de 80 personnes ont été assassinées dans l'hiver.
19:48En l'année 80, Castlederic était presque une ville de la ville.
19:52Le centre de la ville était allé bloqué,
19:54et en sécurité était en haut,
19:55car il était en 1 km d'un côté de l'Irish.
20:21Il était part de notre maison.
20:29Je suis très amoureux avec Trevor et c'est un très bon, très gentil, très quiete.
20:36Nous allions tous ensemble, les temps sont difficiles et nous avons fait des longues,
20:41peut-être à 8h00, à la nuit, parfois à 12h00.
20:45Nous sommes un très bon, très bien, très bien.
20:50L'aiderait par tout le monde.
20:52Arme bomb experts resumed a detailed search of the area in daylight,
20:56finding one unexploded mortar at the firing point.
20:59Je suis involucré dans une explosion de bomb.
21:04Je suis transfert et j'ai eu l'occasion d'y aller,
21:09et j'ai eu l'occasion d'arriver au nord-ouest,
21:11et j'ai eu arrivé en Coleraine.
21:17Je suis venu d'en call avec lui.
21:19Il me dit, « Vous avez vu un peu,
21:21pourquoi ne pas ?
21:23Je vais vous faire un transfert et je vais vous faire un petit peu.
21:26Il me dit, « Je me suis venu d'envoyer,
21:28et je me suis venu d'envoyer avec lui et Hazel.
21:31Vous vous êtes venu d'envoyer.
22:00»
22:01Derry's over the mountain, Belfast is up the motorway and you could be really a million miles away.
22:07And that's why people come here, it's to relax and sort of take it easy.
22:15In comparison to some of the other places like Derry or Belfast, South Aramare, Fermanagh, a place like that,
22:21it was relatively safe and a place where you felt comfortable.
22:34It's a dramatic area, dramatic scenery, dramatic Atlantic Ocean.
22:44It is spectacular. It's a fantastic backdrop to life, holidays, work. It's a beautiful place.
22:53It's a bit of paradise and people really aspire to live there.
23:02I think the big characteristic is friendship. People are just so outgoing and so friendly.
23:08No matter where you go, people just talk to you and, you know, if you meet them on the street,
23:11they'll always say hello, they'll always, they won't walk past you, they'll always say hello, how's it going?
23:17It is a culture of people that are very different to lots of other parts of the world.
23:37Colin Howell lived about 75 metres from me in the same park as me. It was a place called Knocklaid
23:43Park.
23:46All were new homes.
23:49And he was my dentist.
23:52He was a seven-enough guy.
23:56Very professional, very good, very well respected.
24:04He was, he wasn't your average dentist, but it means that he's a very, very strong, good business going in
24:09Ballamoney.
24:11Very popular in Ballamoney, I know that for sure.
24:13He was a popular guy and he was very heavily involved with the church.
24:19You know, he was a part of our community and he really was a part of a society.
24:33He was very charismatic, he was very charming.
24:36Leslie Howell was clearly someone who had also been charmed by Colin Howell.
24:44He had charmed her, she had married him and probably thought, you know, this was her life set.
24:48She was with this very successful dentist.
24:49Money was no object.
24:50They live in a very nice home.
24:52And she had four children who she absolutely adored and we know that.
24:58She was a completely and utterly devoted mother.
25:02The house would be full of the smell of baking or painting.
25:06She didn't seem to mind about the mess.
25:08It was just so long as they were enjoying themselves.
25:11She wanted the best for her children and she really was a very good mother.
25:15And I remember one day she came in with her group of friends and she said to her friend,
25:18my, your wee boy is just gorgeous.
25:21He is beautiful.
25:23Almost as nice as my Daniel.
25:25And she just took such pleasure in them when Lauren was born.
25:27She says, come and see my little princess.
25:30And she just adored her.
25:34Pretty much middle class, you know, backgrounds.
25:37Children at good schools.
25:40Just very, you know, very ordinary approach to life.
25:45And nobody took them onto their notice.
25:49You know, it's just, I just feel
25:53that I've lived a life for a long time.
25:57The hypocrisy of me and the way that I've lived my life.
26:02Having an image.
26:04And doing a good job of creating that image.
26:07And you've said about, yes, reputation of being a good dentist.
26:12But, um, that's probably what I survived on was a good image.
26:19When deep down in the core of my heart,
26:23I was someone who was willing to take the life of two people.
26:34When they moved to Clarvain,
26:36Hazel Buchanan didn't know anyone.
26:38She wasn't familiar, particularly with that area.
26:41She isn't someone that had a lot of female friends anyway.
26:43But she decided that they would join the church.
26:46And this was how they socialised.
26:47Their whole lives revolved around the church.
26:53Well, Trevor, when he came here,
26:56he sort of became more religious
26:58and got involved with the church.
27:00He gave his testimony at some stage.
27:03You know, it was where you declare that they're saved.
27:05And that was his commitment to the religion.
27:08And he would have been a man that sort of
27:12exemplified Christianity.
27:13You know, that was his ethos.
27:15And that was what you would expect
27:16from a good Christian man to be.
27:27The religious element is very strong in the North Coast.
27:30There's a feeling of wholesomeness.
27:32Let's put it that way.
27:33There's an atmosphere and a feeling of,
27:35this is wholesome.
27:36You know, this is natural.
27:38This is authentic.
27:40A steady place.
27:41A place of where good work is done.
27:44Not too much fuss made about anything.
27:46And we glory in our surroundings.
27:53Religion up here is just something else.
27:55I mean, people are, you know,
27:57they really are into the church.
27:59Church is a massive thing for them.
28:01And they'll be regular attenders.
28:12Hazel and Colin Howell met at Coleraine Baptist
28:16and had sat pretty close to each other.
28:18You know, they had their own seats, family seats,
28:21and they could see each other from their family seats.
28:23They were there on a weekly basis.
28:25And then they had done prayer meetings
28:27and she was involved in Sunday school
28:29and his kids were at Sunday school.
28:31It was all very wholesome on the outside.
28:36But Hazel was one who always remained aloof.
28:40Sometimes the chat that Trevor and I might have had,
28:43just on general things,
28:45would have given you the impression
28:46that Hazel felt that Trevor should be moving
28:50in the upper class circles.
28:52And she might have thought
28:53that he should have aspired
28:54to be something off a superintendent's rank
28:57or chief inspector at least,
29:00or something which set him apart
29:01from the hoi polloi.
29:05I don't think she'd ever met a man
29:07like Colin Howell before
29:08and was completely, I think,
29:10under his spell quite quickly.
29:12Her husband, Trevor,
29:13despite the fact that he was a policeman
29:15and we know that he had, you know,
29:16a career in the RUC,
29:17he was quite quiet
29:18and he was quite timid.
29:20And he wouldn't have been someone
29:21who would have been flirtatious or charming
29:23in the way that Colin Howell would have been,
29:25who immediately, I think, set sights on her
29:28and decided that she was going to be someone
29:30that he was going to target for an affair.
29:35There's an intensity about him.
29:37There's a red-hot intensity about him.
29:39But it goes white-hot when he meets Hazel.
29:42And he decides,
29:43there's the girl for me.
29:47Well, it'd be fair to say
29:48that your relationship then
29:50had been fairly intense,
29:51passionately intense.
29:52You were extremely emotionally attached to her.
29:55I'd say, yeah.
29:58Was your relationship sexual?
30:00Yes.
30:03Did you ever at any time
30:05tell that you loved her?
30:06Yeah.
30:07And did she say the same to you?
30:09Yeah.
30:10There were secret phone calls,
30:12there were secret codes,
30:13everything was clandestine,
30:15and they met in secret.
30:17Then they got caught.
30:24Someone in the Baptist church
30:25had seen our cars
30:27at
30:29the forest
30:30at Castle Row.
30:31Just saw them together,
30:33and he phoned me
30:37and said he'd seen the cars
30:39and wanted to know
30:40if I wanted to
30:44say what it was about
30:45or would he have to do that?
30:47Which is then,
30:48I went to
30:49the pastor of the church,
30:51John Hansford,
30:52and made a confession as such.
30:56I heard Colin
30:58make his apology
31:00to Trevor
31:01for his adultery
31:03with Hazel.
31:05And I also witnessed
31:08Trevor accepting
31:09that apology
31:11from Colin.
31:14And then they,
31:16in some way,
31:17reached out to each other,
31:19shook hands,
31:21and in a measure,
31:23lightly,
31:24as far as I can remember,
31:25hugged each other.
31:27It seemed like
31:28an incredible success story
31:31of Christian counselling.
31:33It's the way
31:34things ought to be.
31:35When there's wrongdoing,
31:36there should be
31:37repentance,
31:38forgiveness,
31:39and restoration.
31:39That's the absolute ideal.
31:43It's not normal
31:45that church people
31:46would act like that.
31:47In other words,
31:48I do know
31:48that I was
31:49an aberration
31:50and a now disgrace
31:52to church people
31:53because of
31:56this behaviour,
31:57because it doesn't represent
31:59a normal church
32:00or even normal
32:01human person,
32:03community person.
32:05For the people
32:05in the church,
32:06this type of scandal
32:07wasn't something
32:08they wanted associated
32:09with their church.
32:09They didn't want it
32:10associated with their members.
32:11And so those people
32:12who did know
32:13said nothing.
32:14You know,
32:14they closed down.
32:15They might have,
32:16you know,
32:17in an evening
32:17or on a Sunday,
32:18silently,
32:19you know,
32:20in church
32:20might have prayed
32:21for the souls
32:21of these people,
32:22but they certainly
32:23weren't for going out
32:23into the street
32:24and talking about
32:25what they had done
32:26because it was
32:27such a closed community.
32:29You could say
32:29that the church
32:30were protective
32:30of the church.
32:41The confession
32:42to Leslie
32:44was not set up
32:46but was organised
32:47through the pastor,
32:49John Hansford.
32:50And so it was arranged
32:52that I make the confession
32:55and he withdrew.
32:57So he wasn't in the house
32:58at the time.
32:58I was alone with her.
33:02And that's when she,
33:03when I told her,
33:04she exploded
33:05and went to the bathroom
33:06and took tablets.
33:14Scattered a lot of them,
33:15took some of them
33:15and drove off.
33:21I phoned John Hansford
33:22right away
33:23and he came up
33:24to the house.
33:26And then in a few hours
33:28or whatever,
33:29I was informed
33:29she was poor
33:30and having her stomach pumped.
33:39This is where I think
33:40that Leslie Howell
33:42was really let down.
33:43She had complained
33:45on several occasions.
33:46People knew she was
33:47in a very unhappy marriage.
33:48People knew he was a Flander.
33:49People knew that he was not
33:50being kind to her
33:52and her four children.
33:53They knew that she was struggling
33:54and nobody thought
33:55to put an arm around her.
33:56Instead it was,
33:57let's try and keep this
33:58as quiet as possible.
34:01But Leslie,
34:03did they say,
34:04that said attempt
34:04and planted the seed,
34:06that would be good
34:08for me if that happened.
34:11I would suggest
34:13that anybody
34:14who has an affair
34:17will always think
34:19they'd be better off
34:20without their partner.
34:21I do believe
34:22that thoughts of murder
34:24are immediately connected
34:25to that.
34:26As I say,
34:27that everyone
34:27takes action on it.
34:29But it's the concept
34:30of that person
34:31that life would be better
34:32without them.
34:35No easy questions
34:36on this,
34:37but why do you know
34:38leave her?
34:40Wouldn't that have been
34:41far better?
34:42Well, you know,
34:43it's an office
34:43for me to make.
34:46It's a much easier thought.
34:48I would suggest
34:49it's a much easier thought.
34:53I would find it much easier
34:54to think enough
34:58and walk out the front door
34:59than to sit and think
35:02and she said
35:03that she'd be better off dead.
35:05And then to go through,
35:08she's right, you know.
35:09You know,
35:11I was saying for you,
35:12that's a good,
35:14that is right.
35:15I don't disagree with that.
35:17That would have been
35:18a better thought
35:19than an easier thought.
35:25And my mind began
35:26to hatch a plot
35:28of how I might
35:29make this happen.
35:31and cover it up
35:32as a suicide.
35:35What I would do
35:36would be that
35:37I would pipe gas,
35:39sorry,
35:40the fumes of the car
35:41from the garage
35:42into the house.
35:43It would front my house
35:45and then
35:45at Trevor Buchanan's house.
35:49Leslie regularly would go to bed
35:50with well-dosed up
35:52with tamazepam,
35:53I think it was,
35:54tamazepam
35:55and alcohol
35:57and it helped her sleep.
35:58It was her way
35:59of dealing with the pain.
36:02My parents sometimes
36:04stayed at my house
36:04and they had left behind
36:07some other sleeping tablets.
36:09So I gave some of those
36:11to Hazel
36:11and asked her
36:11to mash them up
36:12and put them in something
36:13that Trevor would eat.
36:16The concept for me
36:17was that
36:18books would fall asleep
36:19deeply,
36:20that I would
36:23put this gas pipe
36:24after starting the car
36:25up beside him
36:27and then they'd fall asleep.
36:28Quietly,
36:28that was my understanding
36:30of what would happen.
36:35I met
36:36with Hazel.
36:37She came in her car
36:39and obviously
36:39there was this great fear
36:40we'd be caught
36:40so it was kind of,
36:41she was very terrified
36:42of that,
36:43of being caught
36:43and I knew
36:45that she didn't want,
36:46she wanted to meet me
36:47but she didn't
36:48and I would begin
36:50by saying
36:50that my influence on her
36:51was already strong
36:52and great.
36:57Her role was
36:58more limited than mine
36:59so she didn't,
37:00she didn't need to know
37:01everything that was happening
37:02she didn't need to know
37:03in a sense
37:04my strategy
37:05but I did tell her
37:06my strategy
37:07what I would do.
37:09She didn't need to
37:10be concerned about
37:11how I would do it
37:12so much as
37:13what she had to do.
37:18I was not someone
37:19who was looking
37:20for what was really
37:21in her heart
37:22so
37:23on the basis that
37:25things like
37:26and even the affair
37:28was
37:29we discussed earlier
37:30was driven by me
37:31albeit with her cooperation.
37:35It's highly likely
37:37that she didn't want to do it
37:40but she did obviously cooperate
37:41that can't be denied
37:43there was a cooperation
37:43she did
37:44but did she really want to?
38:04I think it's hugely significant
38:07that
38:08despite the heinous nature
38:10of the terrible atrocities
38:12that took place in this case
38:14and the involvement
38:16of Hazel Stewart
38:16in those horrible acts
38:19there's been a real
38:20deficit though
38:21that the full background
38:22and circumstances
38:23under which she was
38:24in that position
38:25and how she came
38:26to find herself
38:27in that position
38:27that that has never been
38:29fully brought out
38:29in any court
38:30and key to that
38:32is highlighting
38:33and identifying
38:34and specifying
38:35that what she went through
38:37back in the day
38:38when she was in a relationship
38:39with Howell
38:40was that she was
38:41under coercive control
38:42and we've identified
38:43and located
38:44a well-known expert
38:46in this field.
38:59Colin Howell
39:00husband of the second deceased
39:01clearly guilty
39:02to both the murders
39:03of Trevor
39:04and his wife Leslie
39:06prosecution alleged
39:07that the applicant
39:08was partly
39:09to the joint enterprise
39:10murder of both deceased
39:13I'm Duncan Harding
39:14I'm a consultant
39:16forensic psychiatrist
39:17I'm also a specialist
39:20member of the parole board
39:21for England and Wales
39:22I sit on about
39:23120 parole hearings
39:25a year
39:25what it means
39:26is that
39:27I'm very experienced
39:28in seeing people
39:29who've been in prison
39:30for a long time
39:31and have been
39:33in a system
39:34in an institutionalised system
39:37and I'm really used
39:40to assessing those people
39:42at length
39:42background
39:43new line
39:45on 2nd of March 2011
39:47applicant was convicted
39:49of the murders
39:50of both her husband
39:51Trevor Buchanan
39:52what's interesting
39:53in this particular situation
39:54is that
39:55if we look at
39:56the original trial
39:58and we try and find
39:59the voice of Hazel Stewart
40:01it's markedly absent
40:04and then we can think
40:05of the appeal
40:06and we can think of
40:07like the narrative
40:08of the way
40:09that this case has progressed
40:11my sense
40:12and again this is
40:13broad brushstrokes
40:13because I haven't looked
40:14at all this
40:15in a huge amount of detail
40:16but my sense
40:16is that she's been lost
40:18within that system
40:19and I think
40:20if you see an example
40:22of systemic control
40:23in that way
40:24where her voice is lost
40:25which is the heart
40:27of coercive control
40:27it's what coercive control
40:29is the person
40:30that's been controlled
40:31loses their voice
40:31essentially
40:32and so if she's lost
40:34her voice in the system
40:34it's possible
40:35she lost her voice
40:36in that interpersonal dynamic
40:37with that other person
40:39with her co-defendant
40:41the fact that
40:42this thing came out
40:43of the blue
40:44apparently
40:46for me personally
40:48does not make me think
40:50gosh then in that case
40:51she must have been controlled
40:52it doesn't make me think
40:53that at all
40:54I would be very sceptical
40:55what I can do
40:56as an expert though
40:57is I can look back
40:58at someone's past
40:59and I can think about it
41:01with my
41:02you know
41:03with the credibility
41:03of being a child
41:04and adolescent
41:05forensic psychiatrist
41:06I can dissect into her past
41:08and I can
41:09you know
41:10I can make a comment
41:11about whether
41:12in my view
41:13it's likely or not
41:14that this would have occurred
41:16just out of the blue
41:18or
41:18is it more likely
41:20that she was
41:21pulled along
41:23by another person
41:24who perhaps
41:25if you were to look into
41:25his past
41:26would be a very different story
41:29and she was
41:30controlled in some way
41:33we see this case
41:34subject to the
41:35outworkings
41:36and content
41:36of Dr Duncan Harding's report
41:38we see this case
41:41on its way back to court
41:44she can say
41:45and she has said
41:46through her
41:46through her lawyer
41:49I didn't know
41:49what I was doing
41:50I didn't have any choice
41:52I was coercively controlled
41:53we didn't know
41:54about coercive control
41:55back in the day
41:55which in fact
41:56of course we did
41:58and Colin Howell
41:59planned everything
42:00meticulously
42:01and then he found
42:02another little helper
42:03who can plan with him
42:04and was able to
42:06work alongside him
42:07to ensure that
42:08they got their own way
42:09and Hazel Stuart
42:10was that person
42:13should have been asked
42:14you to do this
42:15just
42:17the house is obviously
42:18a lot of times
42:19past it
42:20and
42:21you've moved out
42:22of the house
42:23all made
42:24would you draw me
42:25just a
42:27sketch
42:28and like a
42:29floor plan
42:30if you like
42:30if you're a bungalow
42:34you're a bungalow
42:36you're a bungalow
42:37it doesn't have to be
42:39if you really want to
42:41concentrate
42:41just maybe
42:42on
42:43the living room
42:49yeah
42:51kitchen
42:53kitchen
42:53kitchen
42:54carriage
42:54yeah
42:56try the house
42:58yeah if it will
42:59it's just
43:00it's just the bearings
43:01you know
43:01for a second
43:02the reason is irrelevant
43:03I'll do it on a carriage
43:04carriage
43:09and then
43:10a quick four pound
43:11of the piano
43:12floor
43:12car
43:14kitchen
43:16oh
43:19fire
43:39so
43:41starting with
43:42Leslie
43:45I came out the side
43:46of the side door
43:46of the garage
43:47through the back door
43:49through the kitchen
43:53through the
43:54nearest room
43:55which was the living room
43:56which had fallen asleep
43:58I'm sure if you
43:59pace that out
44:00it would be
44:0225 paces
44:04it's hard to remember
44:06I can sort of see it
44:07but I can't
44:08guess
44:10I think it was
44:10the full length
44:11of the hose
44:11I don't think
44:11I cut it short
44:13but I feel like
44:13it was a full length
44:15I set the hose
44:16beside her
44:17right up beside her
44:18and she was
44:18deeply asleep
44:21and I went
44:22back to the garage
44:23and started
44:23the engine
44:28my concept
44:29was to say
44:30I would have been
44:30she'd have fallen asleep
44:36one of the things
44:36that happened
44:37when she
44:38aroused
44:39was she called out
44:39Matthew
44:40my son's name
44:42and that's one of the
44:43memories that
44:44haunts me
44:45is that she called
44:46his name
44:46because I didn't expect
44:47her to be
44:49awake
44:54so
44:56I suppose
44:57I panicked
45:00because
45:02I knew that
45:04if she'd wakened up
45:06and seen what was
45:06going on
45:06she'd have
45:09had her cut
45:11so we ran in
45:13and
45:15and just
45:15put the hose
45:16closer and put it
45:17over her head
45:17whatever it was
45:19quilt
45:19for her head
45:24I think at that
45:24point I had a
45:27reality check
45:28of what was
45:29happening
45:29it was like
45:30a thing
45:34almost disbelief
45:35that it was
45:36happening
45:36that it was
45:37I think it was
45:38a change
45:38in the
45:39it was the fact
45:40that I had to
45:40do something
45:41more than just
45:42leave it there
45:43for it if I was
45:44to kind of
45:45create a panic
45:49wrap that all up
45:50and brought her
45:51body to the car
45:53she threw
45:54something over
45:55a blanket
45:56or something
45:57I set my
45:57bicycle
45:58on top of that
46:02then
46:03in the OBT
46:04phone lines
46:04if you pick up
46:05the phone
46:06dial the number
46:07and there's a little
46:07click
46:08before you hear
46:09the dial tone
46:09there's a little
46:10dink
46:10goes on the other
46:10phone
46:11so this was a
46:11communication
46:12that I had learned
46:14during the affair
46:14and so I made
46:15that communication
46:16with Hazel
46:16that she knew
46:17that she heard
46:17that dink
46:18at that time
46:19that the event
46:20had actually happened
46:24and then
46:28I drove over
46:29to Buchanan's
46:30house
46:43I just knew
46:43I had to
46:44keep going
46:44and
46:45because I had
46:46a part of the plan
46:48was that the times
46:48of their deaths
46:49would be as close
46:49as possible together
46:50that it might not
46:51be interpreted
46:52as being separate
47:11and so I drove
47:12over to her house
47:15and
47:16reversed into her garage
47:18and she was there
47:21I think in disbelief
47:22I'm sure
47:23was for her
47:24to comment on
47:26and repeated
47:27the event
47:31I stopped you there
47:32how did you know
47:33it was safe
47:34to do that
47:36to go in
47:37how did you know
47:38it was safe
47:39to reverse
47:39to go to Charnwood
47:42reverse your car
47:43into the driveway
47:44and into the garage
47:45and to start
47:46your procedure
47:47the obvious answer
47:51and it's not that
47:52I know it is the answer
47:53but
47:55I must have had
47:56some communication
47:57from Hazel
47:58that it was safe
48:00and
48:02did she call me
48:03when I made
48:04the little dink
48:08without trying to
48:09withhold anything
48:09I don't remember
48:10that right at this
48:11point
48:11but yes
48:12it's another fundamental
48:14part of your plan
48:16isn't it
48:17it would have to be
48:18it would have to be
48:19so it must make sense
48:20highly significant
48:20part of your plan
48:21yeah
48:24so you know
48:28you used the click method
48:29to say that you had
48:31successfully created
48:32your part
48:37without having some sort
48:39of knowledge
48:40you had to receive
48:40you were taking
48:41one heck of a risk
48:42that's right
48:44that's correct
48:46I remember
48:50saying
48:51obviously she would have
48:52confirmed that Trevor
48:53was asleep in bed
49:00the door was ajar
49:01and looked in
49:03and Trevor was asleep
49:03on the far side
49:05of the double bed
49:06in the bedroom
49:07that was the top end
49:08of the hall
49:09the left hand side
49:13an unrolled hose
49:16and
49:18quietly
49:19leaning across
49:20and set it
49:22inside the door
49:23probably in the
49:26I probably got across
49:28as far as a pillow
49:29this pillow
49:30and he was lying
49:32face down
49:36I went back out
49:38and
49:40closed the door
49:41but couldn't close the door
49:43because the hose was through
49:43but closed as far as it went
49:50I think Hazel hid away
49:52at that point
49:52I don't remember seeing her
49:55during this part of it
49:57I don't know where she hid
49:58because I wasn't looking
49:59it was
50:01and he went
50:02to the car
50:03started the engine again
50:09and
50:09again
50:10I put the pipe up
50:11beside him
50:12while he slept
50:13and
50:14again
50:14the same thing happened
50:15here
50:16awakened
50:17even though he was
50:20sedated
50:24and
50:24I had to do the same
50:25for him
50:26and
50:26hold
50:28the pipe
50:28to his mouth
50:29while he
50:30died
50:49I know I was really
50:50very freaked out
50:51at the whole idea
50:53of my plan
50:54instead of being this quiet
50:58my concept was
50:59quiet
51:00falling asleep
51:01it became actually
51:02something I had to
51:03physically do
51:04and
51:06that was
51:08something that I just
51:09didn't plan on
51:10and it made me realise
51:11the wheels were coming off
51:12everything that I had
51:14in a sense imagined
51:16would happen
51:21Hazel had left out
51:21some clothes for him
51:22so I dressed him
51:23in his clothes
51:25I
51:26lifted his body
51:26from his bedroom
51:27into the spare bedroom
51:28dressed him
51:31and
51:31carried his body
51:33into the car
51:33beside Les
51:34he's into the boot
51:34of the car
51:36and
51:39I think my bicycle
51:40was
51:40I lifted it out
51:41and then set it
51:42on top
51:46Hazel's part
51:46role then
51:47was to clear up
51:47and I gave her
51:48the hose pipe
51:49and she cut it
51:49into sections
51:50and burnt it
51:50in the fire
51:52in the fireplace
51:54to get rid of
51:55that part of it
51:57so she
51:57I had organised
51:59all this
51:59so this was all
52:00my idea
52:01but she cooperated
52:17I
52:18I
52:19I then
52:20drove the car
52:22to the bottom
52:23of the
52:24I think it's called
52:25the Cranner Road
52:31left off
52:32my bicycle
52:32threw it
52:33into the grass
52:34just at the
52:35railway crossing
52:39and
52:40drove to
52:41the Twelve Apostles
52:42which was now empty
52:43because
52:43my father-in-law
52:44had died
52:49there was a garage
52:50there
52:50I reversed him
53:18I
53:20J'ai mis le corps de la bouteille, dans la salle de la salle, et j'ai mis l'air
53:25là-bas.
53:29Je ne pouvais pas le faire, mais mon pied était partie de la porte.
53:32Je savais qu'il avait l'impression qu'il allait changer sa minde et qu'il allait sortir.
53:37Mais ce n'était pas d'intention que j'allais le faire.
53:40C'était la façon dont il a fallé et je ne pouvais pas le changer.
53:42Il était là-bas.
53:48Je l'ai tout coupé comme le sous.
53:57Pour Leslie, j'ai mis l'air à sony walkman.
54:03Je l'ai mis l'air, dans ce que j'ai mis l'air au couvert de la musique.
54:05Laissume de l'air à sony walkman.
54:06J'ai mis l'air d'oublier alors qu'elle était prêt à écouter la musique.
54:13Puis, j'ai commencé l'enginie et j'ai abandonné le garage.
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