00:00Ukraine's President Vladimir Zelenskyy, meanwhile, is on another tour of European capitals.
00:04He was in London Tuesday, where he met the King and the Prime Minister.
00:07A visit that comes as that war in the Middle East overshadows the one in Ukraine.
00:12U.S. broker talks have been derailed and sanctions on Russia rolled back by Washington.
00:17Well, the British Prime Minister said focus needed to stay on Ukraine,
00:20as the duo signed a defence partnership, one that seeks to use Ukraine's expertise in fending off drones.
00:27Here's the latest from Vladimir Zelensky.
00:30Iran taught Russia how to launch them and gave it the technology to produce them.
00:36Russia then upgraded them, and now we have clear evidence that Iranian shahids used in the region contain Russian components.
00:46So what is happening around Iran today is not a faraway war for us because of the cooperation between Russia
00:54and Iran.
00:55And we do not believe we have the right to be indifferent.
01:00Well, Zelenskyy is now on his way to Madrid to meet with Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez there.
01:05Sánchez has been an outspoken supporter of Kiev ever since Russia invaded,
01:09part of Spain's wider commitment to calling for the respect of international law.
01:14On Ukraine, Gaza and Iran, Sánchez has been one of the most vocal voices in Europe against the violence.
01:19Well, to get more insight on Spain's position and its foreign policy, we can speak now to Associate Professor in
01:25International Relations at the Autonomous University of Barcelona,
01:28Edward Soler. Thanks so much for your time.
01:31Can I start by asking you, Sánchez seems to be a somewhat rare voice here in Europe against these wars
01:37and the countries attacking.
01:39Why do you think he's so vocal compared to other leaders?
01:43Well, I would say that Spain, first, is a middle power and therefore one that needs functioning rules and institutions
01:51to defend its interests.
01:53So, on the one hand, there's the vision and the interests of the country.
01:56Then there's the views of the society.
02:00The society is clearly against these velicos escalates, against the war, the current war in the Middle East.
02:10It was also very critical of the Israeli attacks on Gaza.
02:1682% of the Spanish population consider that Israel committed genocide in Gaza.
02:22So, I would say that Sánchez is aware that the positions that he is defending are also widely supported by
02:28the Spanish population.
02:29So, it's the two elements.
02:30I mean, how Spain conceives its role and position in the world and how to defend its interests,
02:36but also the will of the people in a moment in which also Sánchez needs to increase his popularity at
02:41home.
02:43Explain to me, firstly, a bit more about the strategy you talk there about a middle power.
02:47I mean, when we think back to the past, I remember Spain going with the United States in previous Gulf
02:53Wars.
02:54It cost the Prime Minister at the time his job.
02:56I mean, what is Spain's strategy to go against countries as big as the United States?
03:03Well, it's not going against.
03:05It's going in favor of something else.
03:08It's going in favor or supportive international law, as you were rightly pointing out.
03:15I mean, that has been one of the, let's say, the narratives of this government when it comes to Ukraine,
03:24when it comes to Gaza, when it comes to Iran.
03:26So, it is widely acknowledged that this wave of attacks, this war launched by Israel and the United States of
03:36America,
03:36it's against the Charter of the UN.
03:39So, basically, Pedro Sánchez is saying out loud what everyone knows.
03:46Then, it's not, I mean, Spain is not willing to enter into confrontation with the United States of America.
03:55America still, and insists, that wants to have a relation as cooperative as possible with the United States of America,
04:04but in the field of equality.
04:06And in that sense, and that's interesting how Sánchez is also turning a little bit this discourse on defending Spain's
04:14sovereignty
04:14when it comes also to the use of the bases that the U.S. has or employs in Spain,
04:22but that are a part of Spain's sovereignty and that need to be agreed with the Spanish government.
04:28So, as I said, it's not that Spain wants to get into a conflict with the United States of America.
04:35It wants to defend a certain position, which is quite clear.
04:39And then, yes, Pedro Sánchez may try to take advantage of that for political domestic calculations,
04:47but I think it goes well beyond.
04:50And defending a different position, then it would go completely against the will of the Spanish people.
04:55And as you rightly pointed out, we all remember what happened in 2003 with the U.S. invasion of Iraq.
05:01Then José María Aznar was siding with the United States of America against the will of the Spanish people.
05:08And this is one among the elements, not the only one,
05:11but one among the elements that may explain why the Popular Party lost the elections back then.
05:16How do you see Pedro Sánchez when it comes to foreign policy?
05:19Is he more assertive than previous prime ministers?
05:22And if so, why do you think that might be?
05:25Yeah, absolutely.
05:26Well, probably we only have had another prime minister as assertive as him.
05:30That was José María Aznar, but for different reasons or with a different narrative,
05:36in a moment in which Aznar thought that the alliance with the United States
05:40was the way to defend Spanish interests.
05:44And he really liked also at the end of his second term being more active on the international sphere.
05:53For Pedro Sánchez, I should say that on the one hand that was also trying to make a change
05:58compared to the previous government with Mariano Rajoy,
06:01he was not very active on the international front.
06:05He had to mainly deal with domestic crisis,
06:08and he really did not feel probably very comfortable in the international arena.
06:12Pedro Sánchez speaks foreign languages.
06:14That's a big difference for Spanish prime ministers.
06:19And on top of it, from his very young age,
06:22he has been active in international affairs.
06:25And probably people don't know,
06:26but he was also working as an advisor in Bosnia-Herzegovina in the EU mission.
06:33He has been an assistant in the European Parliament.
06:35So international affairs, it's something that it's not new to him.
06:40And I think he likes it.
06:42And that's very evident in the way he is also investing part of his career on this.
06:49Finally, Vladimir Zelenskyy visiting Madrid today for talks with Pedro Sánchez.
06:55What might we see there?
06:57I think we will see a continuation here.
07:00So as you were mentioning before,
07:03Spain has been supportive of Ukraine against the Russian aggression.
07:07And here also overwhelmingly with, I mean, there is a popular support to that position.
07:11And there are very minor nuances when it comes to political parties.
07:15So, yes, I mean, denouncing the Russian aggression,
07:19which also means supporting sanctions against Russia,
07:22supporting Ukraine as much as possible,
07:24not only militarily, because Spain is not such a superpower
07:28when it comes to weaponry,
07:31but it also can provide other things.
07:34It has provided weapons as well.
07:35But on the humanitarian front,
07:38nowadays there are more than 300,000 Ukrainians
07:42that have found shelter in Spain,
07:43that have found a new life in Spain.
07:46This is an important element.
07:48And also Spain has been supporting
07:50the idea of Ukraine joining the European Union.
07:56So I think that we will see
07:57the renewal of those commitments,
08:00of denouncing the Russian aggression,
08:01of supporting the Ukrainian people,
08:03and supporting the integration of Ukraine in the EU.
08:06Rosalaya Lecha, thanks so much for your time
08:08and bringing us your insight.
08:10Very much appreciated.
08:10Very much appreciated.
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