00:00For more, our International Affairs Editor, Rochelle Ferguson-Biyahi, joins me here on set.
00:05Rochelle, first of all, talk us through the most recent, if you like, pushback we're seeing in Europe to the
00:11US-Israeli war in Iran.
00:12Well, there have been several pushbacks, you might say, a stiffening of the stance, this resistance to the US and
00:20their war on Iran, of course, in conjunction with Israel.
00:25You mentioned France there and some of the comments that Donald Trump had made, saying that France was ultimately unhelpful
00:32and that they would pay the price for that ultimately, or that USA wouldn't forget, let's say.
00:39I'd like to bring up on your screens another couple of examples of how Europe is essentially responding to this.
00:48Paris, not the only country to, or France, not the only country to close its airspace.
00:53Switzerland has done the same, Switzerland stressing that they are, when it comes to armed conflict, taking a position of
01:00neutrality.
01:01That's a tradition for Switzerland.
01:03Spain, of course, has imposed similar flight bans.
01:06Now, that's the latest chapter in Spain's hardline start to this war.
01:10If you look at the more dependable, if you will, allies in the past, you've got Poland that's refusing to
01:17relocate its Patriot batteries.
01:19There have been several reports that the USA had kindly asked them to at least send one to the Middle
01:24East to kind of shore up any difficulties there.
01:26That was refused by Warsaw.
01:29And then you have Italy that you'll see on your screen, who denied permission for a US military aircraft to
01:34land in Sicily.
01:36Now, Rome said, hang on a minute, this was a technical hitch.
01:39The US hadn't asked for our permission to begin with.
01:41But as you can see, a growing chorus, if you will, a growing number of European nations who are making
01:46it that much more difficult for the US to forge ahead with this war on Iran.
01:52Just a final point on that.
01:53The UK now is apparently taking a lot longer to respond to US requests to use its base.
02:00So once again, you know, several EU nations taking that start there.
02:05So bearing all that in mind, I suppose the big question is why then?
02:07Well, look, there are several reasons as to why.
02:10Firstly, this lack of consultation with Europe.
02:14You'd expect Europe to be consulted if the US is going into a war with or on Iran, particularly because
02:22the US needs, you know, EU bases.
02:24They need ports. They need airspace.
02:26So the fact that they weren't consulted has obviously not been met very kindly by EU leaders.
02:32The second we can bring up on your screen as well is this idea of confusion around war aims.
02:37What exactly is it that the US is wanting to achieve here?
02:42You know, if you listen to Pete Hegseth's interviews, you know, there have been invariably, you know, destroy Iranian offensive
02:50missiles, destroy Iranian missile production, ensuring that the country never has any nuclear weapons.
02:56The issue, though, is that they never seem to be the same objectives.
02:59They are kind of, you know, several objectives that are put out depending on who you're listening to.
03:04So the lack of clarity, I think, has, you know, allowed Europeans to kind of have cold feet and really
03:11pose questions, key questions about what the US strategy is in all of this.
03:15I think the attitude, US attitude towards Europe is particularly interesting.
03:20The way that Trump has been asking for things, you know, let us use your airbase, let us use your
03:24ports.
03:25And if that's not met with what Trump is expecting, then there's a slew of insults, criticisms leveled at these
03:31EU leaders there.
03:32You know, there comes a time when that is going to be, you know, take its toll on European leaders
03:37to be, you know, treated as children and insulted, you know, pretty regularly, it has to be said.
03:44And the last is, of course, Ukraine.
03:47Certainly countries in the east of Europe will want that attention to remain on Ukraine.
03:51They are still, you know, battling this full scale invasion by Russia and they will not want that attention taken
03:58away there to be put on the Middle East.
04:01So where does that leave then the US and perhaps even more crucially, where on earth does it leave NATO?
04:07Well, look, I mean, the first point is that, you know, this very deep division within the transatlantic relationship is
04:13there.
04:13We saw that at the beginning of this year.
04:14That was put under strain when Trump, you know, broached this issue of annexing Greenland.
04:20So there was already a sea of discord, a seed of discord, I should say, sowed there.
04:25But you mentioned it there, NATO is going to be key here.
04:27Marco Rubio most recently has spoken about reassessing the US's relationship with NATO and asking the question of, you know,
04:34if we can't use their military bases, if they're not going to help us out, Europe, that is, when we
04:38ask.
04:39What is actually the point of being in this alliance?
04:42That will crystallize fears for European leaders because, of course, they will be fearful that the US might take some
04:49revenge.
04:49That revenge would probably be in the way of Ukraine spurning their, you know, calls for assistance from the United
04:57States to continue helping Ukraine to fight Russia.
05:00So it's a huge fear there from European leaders.
05:04Has to be said, I'll just finish up by saying this question of closing airspace and a broad rejection of
05:09Donald Trump hasn't yet been broached officially within NATO.
05:12But one can imagine that that will be the next step going forward in this war.
05:18Rochelle, thanks very much.
05:19Rochelle Ferguson by Piyahi talking to us there from our international.
05:22Rochelle Ferguson by Piyahi talking to us.
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