- 2 months ago
John invites Rebeckah, a former insider to share her story of growing up in William Branham’s Message, where strict rules, fear-based teaching, and unfulfilled prophecies shaped everyday life. Raised in tape churches and surrounded by generational loyalty to Branham, she explains how control, secrecy, and distorted doctrine quietly influenced her understanding of God, identity, and faith.
Together, they explore failed prophecies, Gnostic-style “secret knowledge,” emotional manipulation, and the long process of unpacking belief after leaving. The conversation offers hope for those questioning high-control religious systems, showing how reading the Bible directly, asking hard questions, and encountering grace outside the Message can lead to genuine spiritual healing and freedom.
00:00 Introduction
00:31 Growing Up In A Hardcore Message Family
06:07 The Airplane Prophecy And Family Legacy
12:40 The Angry God And Dress Code Religion
17:10 Tape Churches And Emotional Control
24:59 Realizing It Was A Cult
33:22 The Tent Vision And Failed Predictions
42:36 Serpent Seed And Questioning Doctrine
47:46 Baptism Confusion And Biblical Clarity
55:33 Advice For Those Leaving
_____________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg
– Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham
– Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr
– Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books
Together, they explore failed prophecies, Gnostic-style “secret knowledge,” emotional manipulation, and the long process of unpacking belief after leaving. The conversation offers hope for those questioning high-control religious systems, showing how reading the Bible directly, asking hard questions, and encountering grace outside the Message can lead to genuine spiritual healing and freedom.
00:00 Introduction
00:31 Growing Up In A Hardcore Message Family
06:07 The Airplane Prophecy And Family Legacy
12:40 The Angry God And Dress Code Religion
17:10 Tape Churches And Emotional Control
24:59 Realizing It Was A Cult
33:22 The Tent Vision And Failed Predictions
42:36 Serpent Seed And Questioning Doctrine
47:46 Baptism Confusion And Biblical Clarity
55:33 Advice For Those Leaving
_____________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg
– Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham
– Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr
– Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books
Category
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LearningTranscript
00:31Hello, and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast.
00:36I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research
00:40at william-branham.org, and with me I have my very special guest, Rebecca McGehee, former
00:46member of The Message.
00:47Rebecca, it's good to have you on and to finally connect with you.
00:51We've tried to connect a few times, and you have quite an interesting story, as it relates
00:56to anybody who's in William Branham's message cult following, you are directly descended
01:02to one of the reasons why we can say truly that William Branham was a false prophet and
01:07had failed prophecies through your grandfather, which we'll get into that a little bit.
01:11Your grandfather is the man who purchased the plane that William Branham told him that he
01:16saw in the vision, you'll carry me around in this plane, and then William Branham died.
01:21And so the plane sat there.
01:23So, so much to talk about, but maybe before we get into that, if you could just tell everybody
01:28a little bit about yourself.
01:29Thank you so much, John.
01:30Like I said, I feel like I kind of get to know you.
01:32I've gone down a rabbit hole now for a few months and have listened to so many podcasts.
01:39So like I said, when I go all into something, I really go all in.
01:41And so it's been very eye-opening, I guess, to, for things that I have questioned pretty
01:47much my whole life, to finally feel like you are vindicated in those feelings.
01:52It's been pretty amazing.
01:54So I grew up, yes, very hardcore message, both sides of my family.
02:00So my parents were both raised in it.
02:02So it was just from the moment you're, you know, out of the womb, this is, this is the
02:08way life is.
02:09It wasn't like something that my parents came into later.
02:11It was just, this was my life from as young as I can remember.
02:15And, you know, it was church every Sunday, three, four hour long churches, you know, and
02:21we were, it was just, like I said, very much, but growing up in it, I think I always knew
02:29that it wasn't really, I question it.
02:33I mean, even as a child, it was something at church I zoned out.
02:37And again, I, sometimes I laugh because I've been told my husband, I was like, I feel like
02:41I was a naughty kid.
02:42I was always like falling asleep in church.
02:44I was drawing, I was always somewhere else.
02:46And now as an adult looking back, I'm like, you know, maybe that was kind of God protecting
02:51me in a way that I just kind of, I just kind of checked out.
02:54Like I, you know, you go along with things, but you weren't, you weren't really in it in
02:58it.
03:00So yeah, like I said, grew up hardcore, grew up around a lot of family.
03:04So when I was from birth to a 10 years old, we lived in Arkansas where my dad's family
03:10is.
03:11So we had like a home church, which was at my grandparents' house.
03:15So my grandpa led that, my dad's dad.
03:19And like I said, it was very, all my family, you know, pretty much deeply in it, except
03:25for one of my dad's sisters who is not.
03:28But yeah, all my cousins.
03:29So growing up, it was, like I said, just all I knew.
03:33And yet I was also one of the few that was given the gift of going to public school.
03:41So I didn't have to, yeah, deal with, I had cousins that also went to public and then I
03:45had cousins that were homeschooled, but yes, me and my brother got to go to public school.
03:50And I always think that, you know, a lot of that kind of helped save my sanity in a way
03:55because I had that normalcy as far as even though you're different, but you kind of get
03:59that to get to be out in the world.
04:01So being raised in it, I will say that I listened to a lot of these people's stories
04:06and I will say, obviously, as we all know, ours are all very different.
04:10I was not raised in the super legalistic homes that I think a lot of people are raised in.
04:17I'm going to call it the best way I can describe it is 80-20.
04:21You know, it's kind of like they say the way that you eat food is 80% be healthy, but
04:25then
04:26give yourself that 20%.
04:27And I think that's kind of how me and my brother were kind of raised.
04:30It was 80-20.
04:31So we were, yes, it was strict.
04:34Yes, we were different by standards of, of course, the world.
04:37And, but when I listen to some of these people's stories, I'm like, oh my, I, it wasn't that
04:42bad.
04:43My husband will look at me sometimes who, my husband not raised in this at all, and he will
04:47stare at me and he's like, did you, I'm like, no, we didn't have to do that.
04:50No, we didn't do that.
04:51You know?
04:53So yeah, it was like, I could go swimming and I didn't have to wear a jean skirt.
04:58You know, I could wear like a one piece and some baggy shorts, you know?
05:01And so again, you're, you're modest and you're, but versus I had cousins that went swimming
05:06in, you know, ankle jean skirts, you know?
05:10So my parents tried, I think very hard to kind of, like I said, it was like, yes, you're
05:14different.
05:15Yes, you're, you stand out by normal standards of the world.
05:19But we were given, like I said, a little bit more wiggle room.
05:24You know, I could wear a skirt.
05:25I could wear, my knees could show, you know, I wear culottes, you know, things like that.
05:30So there was, there was some stuff that, like I said, I feel like they, and then I think
05:34as we got older, they got a little bit, again, it was hard, obviously, especially harder for
05:42me than my brother.
05:43Cause we talked about, you know, the, the boys don't have to go through quite the looking
05:46different as girls do.
05:49And so, like I said, it was, you're different, but they, they tried, they tried to kind of let
05:55us have a little bit.
05:58Yeah.
05:58But at the age of 10, then we moved to Arizona.
06:01So we moved up to Northern Arizona, up to Prescott.
06:04So I spent from 10 to 19 living in Arizona, which is where my mom's side of the family
06:10is.
06:11And so, as I kind of briefly told you a little bit, my grandpa, as you've talked about
06:15on a podcast, you know, is the one that bought the plane that, you know, Brandon told him to
06:20get.
06:21And so, so that is my mom's side.
06:23So my mom's side is, I would say a little, maybe less strict than my dad's side.
06:28My grandpa, my mom's side being, having kind of, I guess, more of a personal relationship
06:34with Branham, knew him, went to his house, you know, so it's very interesting.
06:38The two dynamics of both my families were both of them in it.
06:42Whereas my mom's side, it was because my grandpa, like I said, knew him personally.
06:47It was, as we've talked about, Bran was very kind of how he preached.
06:51It was do as I say, but not as I do.
06:53But then growing up, it was funny because then even when my cousins weren't allowed
06:56to do things, my mom would be like, oh, well, you know, well, brother Branham had a TV and,
07:01you know, brother Branham, they went swimming.
07:03They didn't wear.
07:04So I grew up, you know, it was like, I was like, oh, that's why we did those things because
07:07he did those things.
07:09But then I never.
07:11It's kind of funny because whenever I talk to somebody who's female who escaped the cult,
07:16when they talk about their experience and what they went through, it's always about what
07:20they dress.
07:21It's like this was a religion of how to dress.
07:23This is your dress code religion.
07:25The dress code God is going to punish you if you don't adhere to the dress code.
07:29For the guys, it wasn't like that.
07:31And I grew up much with some of the same dynamics because my grandfather obviously knew Branham.
07:38I knew your grandfather.
07:39I'd met him, I can't remember when, some convention here in Jeffersonville.
07:43But it's very much like you said.
07:46The ones who knew Branham, they're kind of relaxed with all of these rules.
07:50And it took me a long time to understand that many of the rules were actually added by the
07:55people later because of the rants.
07:58He would get in this Pentecostal rant where he's just angry at the world and he's blasting
08:03everything.
08:04Well, everybody who's listening to that thinking, oh, well, he doesn't like that.
08:07I must not like that too.
08:09And people form their opinions based off of what this guy who's ranting is voicing as
08:14an angry opinion.
08:15So the whole thing is just so messed up.
08:18Yes.
08:19That's really it.
08:21Exactly.
08:21Like you said.
08:21So I always find it interesting.
08:23You talk about different sects and different churches.
08:25And so while, like you said, but even within, you know, families, it's kind of hilarious
08:30because it was like, there's still, everyone's kind of picks, like you said, they pick their
08:36own little areas of, you know, what they want to do, what they don't want to do.
08:41And we run with that.
08:42So we did the do as I, you know, did, not as I said, kind of, we kind of followed
08:47that
08:47mantra, I guess.
08:48That was kind of the, my raising and even more so my mom's side of the family.
08:53So like I said, moving to Arizona again, I homeschooled for one year because I actually
08:57asked to, I thought that was going to be fun.
08:59And then that was horrible.
09:00So I said, please put me back in school.
09:02So I went back to public school, started in seventh grade.
09:05And then again, middle school through high school spent in public.
09:09And so, like I said, I think that always that saved my sanity of growing up because
09:14I had friends that were in it, also outside of it.
09:19It was like, when we first moved there, I think they tried harder to, my mom tried to
09:23kind of find groups.
09:24We had a church when we first got to like Northern Arizona.
09:27Then that, I don't even remember, was typical.
09:29The church dismantled for some reason, kind of fell apart and, you know, some argument
09:36over something, you know, don't remember all the dynamics to that.
09:40But so then it kind of went to home churches and then we would just bounce around.
09:43But yeah, I also grew up, so it was, we were a huge believer in tapes, preachers, or I guess
09:49of the devil.
09:50And you were, you know, unless you had like a different speaker, that was a different
09:54situation.
09:54But of course, again, we have all of our little rules.
09:57And so, but it was always, it was pretty much, I grew up with sitting in someone's living
10:02room, listening to a tape.
10:04And that was just normal.
10:06And like I said, I hadn't, it's funny, I guess, like I said, I haven't been a part of
10:10it, my whole adult life.
10:12And so when you go back and my husband, literally, we have been married for almost 19 years and
10:17he has not known any part of almost like this side of my growing up.
10:22And so, like I said, he will listen to the podcast and he will, and he looks at me and
10:26he asked me stuff and he's like, I laugh.
10:28I'm like, would you have married me if you'd known all this?
10:32He really didn't.
10:33I haven't, I didn't touch base on a lot of, because like I said, I just, I think as a
10:38kid, I kind of, again, you're in it, you follow the rules because it's what you have
10:41to do.
10:42You're made to look different.
10:44You're made to, but again, I always had, I had good friends.
10:50I always had like outlets to kind of help.
10:52You know, when I got older, I would, you know, get to school and change clothes.
10:56I had all kinds of friends that had, you know, they'd bring me extra clothes and I would
10:59just change and you just kind of, you know, rolled with.
11:02But yeah, as a time that I was an adult, I especially, I got married really young.
11:06Um, so I married my high school sweetheart.
11:08He joined the army like right out of high school and actually got stationed in Alaska.
11:12And so we knew of course that we were not going to really be able to afford to be together
11:17unless we got married.
11:18So I got married at 19 and then moved up to Alaska, which was probably the, I mean, looking
11:25back now at our life, it was the best thing that could have ever happened because it was
11:28like, um, you know, just part of that growing up and, and it, you need to cut that cord.
11:35I don't know, go live your life, you know, and, uh, meet other people and, and the military
11:41has allowed us to do that.
11:42So by we've, yeah, so many different States, so many different places.
11:46I've gone to so many different church.
11:47I've known so many friends from all different backgrounds and, um, yeah, I've got to just
11:52really live a very, uh, dynamic life.
11:56And so I think that that's, um, it's been really awesome.
11:59Um, but what I realized, I guess where my story maybe is like a lot of people's, maybe it's
12:04not, I don't know, maybe it's my own.
12:05Um, I have lived outside of this.
12:07So again, kind of rejected it as a child, I'd almost say, but really a Joe rejected it
12:11more as I got as a teenager.
12:12Um, then married my husband and was like, no, I will never be a part of this.
12:17I don't believe this.
12:18This is not my version of Christianity.
12:20Um, my husband was not, you know, part of it.
12:23I had no intentions of ever marrying anybody that was, I didn't want to raise my kid in it.
12:27Kids, uh, I was like, no, this is not, my story is more of like, I think we carry more
12:34baggage sometimes than we realize.
12:36Um, so not living in it, not being a part of it, living my whole life.
12:40Um, I spent many years like really running from God, not disbelieving in him, but you,
12:46you think of him as a different, uh, version of God.
12:51I guess there's, there's, there's, like I said, there's a weight that we carry.
12:54I think it's the angry God.
12:56We believed in the angry God.
12:58This guy didn't like us at all.
13:00He's going to punish us.
13:01Yes, yes, yes, yes.
13:04Um, very, yes, very angry, very judgmental.
13:07Um, you know, and so like I said, I carried that around.
13:11Um, I, when I say I went, you know, through a wild phase, I mean, like, yeah, you know,
13:15you go through a really, which I think a lot of people do, of course, you know, really wild,
13:19really rebellious phases, really.
13:21And yet, like I said, never, I never went through a, I'm going to say like,
13:24a, an atheist period.
13:25I never, I tried, I actually tried for a while there to like, um, you know, maybe it's easier
13:30to just not believe in God.
13:32And, you know, um, what's that saying?
13:33Like, I don't have enough faith to be an atheist.
13:36That's, that's my kind of, um, it doesn't sit with my heart and soul and it's just not,
13:40um, and plus, like I said, God has been very present in my life, but I have wrestled.
13:45And I, I, like I said, realized that while I've been living my life, I have been carrying
13:50this metaphorical little, you know, box around, I move it from state to state, from house to
13:56house.
13:56And it's like, I move it and I set it up in my closet and I don't ever open it
13:59or unpack
13:59it.
14:00Um, and it wasn't until about September that I just, just last year that I decided to unpack
14:05that box.
14:07Um, so it was, um, it was whenever, uh, Charlie Kirk got killed, it kind of really affected
14:12me and it affected my husband.
14:14Uh, we had followed him for, I had followed him for a few years and, you know, just really,
14:18um, it just hit me.
14:20And so I just kind of started really questioning just my own version of Christianity and, um,
14:26the way I viewed things or the way I was, like I said, it was like, yes, I always believe
14:30in God.
14:30Yes.
14:31I talked to God.
14:31Yes.
14:32I, but again, I was realizing, I was still thinking I have to fit in this certain
14:36way.
14:37Um, so if I'm praying in a pair of jeans, like, well, is God really listening to me?
14:42And again, I didn't realize that I was still carrying this around and, um, I would just
14:48deeply, um, really pray.
14:50This was like I said, back last fall.
14:52Um, just really, I was like, you know, God, I want to, um, my husband made the decision
14:57that we wanted to get baptized.
14:58We really wanted to be just more ever present and grow together and for our daughter and,
15:03you know, and, but then I started, all this stuff can come back.
15:07And a big part of that, I think is like, when you tell your parents, you know, we got baptized,
15:11um, granted, obviously not in the message church.
15:14My parents were very, they were still very happy.
15:16They were very, but we started getting that.
15:18Um, I think they're hoping that you are going to, you're going to come back, you know?
15:23And so I started getting a lot of little comments more so from my mom.
15:28And I just, that was when I really started wrestling.
15:31Cause I was like, oh my gosh.
15:33And I feel even almost like dumb to say this because I hadn't lived it my whole life.
15:37Like I haven't been a part of this as an adult, but I was like, am I supposed to go
15:41back to
15:41like wearing skirts?
15:43Is this like, am I, you know, as a, I really sort of questioning, you know?
15:47And I just, I just, I really, I prayed, I was like, God, you're going to have to like
15:52show me because I can't follow this unless like you actually believe this man was a prophet.
15:57Otherwise I can't believe anything that he says, because to me, he's just a person and
16:02you're going to have to.
16:03And I mean, it's almost amazing sometimes the way that you, um, you've said it a lot.
16:07And when you start reading the Bible yourself, beginning to end, something actually amazing
16:13happens because you see things, um, through a very, very different lens.
16:18You're not looking at it through someone else's lens.
16:20You're reading it for yourself now.
16:23And during this time I started in September, I have one of those little woman's journals
16:27that like, uh, the Bible in a year, you know, kind of guides you.
16:30And it was amazing during this time when I was really wrestling of like, okay, what kind
16:35of Christian do I have to be?
16:36Cause all I know is rules and following, you know, ABCD.
16:40And that's how you, that's how you get to heaven.
16:42That's how you, you know, and it was like during that time I kept finding all kinds.
16:47I mean, it was like the amount of scriptures that would pop up my little daily devotional.
16:50I have a daily devote, I have a, a scripture thing that comes up on my phone.
16:54I have a daily devotional that I read.
16:55It was like all of a sudden during this really turmoil time in my own brain, it was a lot
17:00about, you know, false prophets.
17:01And you realize how many times in the Bible, um, that actually comes up weird.
17:10There's so much to unpack there.
17:12So people who are listening, not everybody, and ironically, not everybody in the message
17:16even is familiar with this, but you mentioned tape churches, tape homes, this kind of thing.
17:21We did the same thing, what this is, all the family gathers together in one of the people's
17:25homes and you play a recording from 1947 to 1965.
17:31And there, there are some oddities that people don't think about, even within the message
17:36they don't think about.
17:36I remember it was being held at one of our houses and I was just coming of age, oh, gosh,
17:45I don't know.
17:46I might've been five years old or something.
17:47And I can remember like dressed in my PJs and they might've even been underers, who knows.
17:53And I remember there was the first time that somebody brought a little girl to our tape home
17:58meeting.
17:59Well, here I am sitting in my, my sleeping, you know, I, I don't know what I was wearing.
18:05I, I'll just say it like that.
18:07But I remember being so embarrassed because she was all dressed up and I'm wearing PJs
18:13or whatever it was, probably underers because I know that that's what we did, which was
18:18a violation of many message codes, which is another funny story.
18:21But I remember that feeling and it was the first time that I really thought about, wait
18:26a minute, we're, this is an actual church, but it's in our living room and everybody's
18:30coming from, it's such a weird, weird feeling.
18:34Now, years later, as I'm unpacking all of this, and especially as I'm working with the
18:40females who have escaped, when the females unpack what they believe and the God that
18:45they view, it's a God that's got a dress code.
18:47That's really all it is.
18:48And if you read the Bible, God is so much more than a dress code, right?
18:52But for the men, other than the underers, it wasn't much of a dress code, right?
18:58So there wasn't much to unpack, but when we listen to those recordings, the recordings
19:05that are, that were made during the height of the Cold War, you had all of the political
19:10turmoil that was happening, you had a minister who had been sanctioned by most of the Pentecostal
19:17churches because of latter rain, he's angry at the world and he shows it.
19:21And so you're listening to an angry recording, you can't help but think about an angry God.
19:26Now, the interesting part of this is, I guarantee you, I've not asked them, but my parents,
19:33if they were still part of our lives, if you were to ask them, they would say, no, Brother
19:39Branham never taught an angry God.
19:41But see, their version of the God is different than what we got on those recordings.
19:47They went to hear actual preaching with actual people.
19:50They knew the man who had television in his home.
19:53We had a television in our home because he had a television in his home.
19:57And most of the rest of the cult heard the angry version, no, you're the lowest sinner
20:02if you have a television in your house.
20:04So it was basically, it was a religion of rules from an angry God being preached from
20:08this ranting minister who's angry at the world.
20:11And how can you not think that there's an angry God?
20:14Yeah, 100%.
20:15It's, like you said, you go, I mean, I can vividly, I can hardly remember anything that
20:21was said as a child, like you said, sitting in church.
20:25But it was, but that's always what I remember.
20:27It was like, I, again, I think you said, it's like you're being berated, you know, in this.
20:31I think the best thing, if anyone's ever asked me about my upbringing or what church was like
20:36growing up for me, one of the examples I've always used, I'm going to go off on a tangent
20:40here, but was from Pollyanna, you know, the preacher in Pollyanna, when he, death comes
20:45unexpectedly, it could happen to you.
20:47It could happen.
20:47That is literally, I remember as a kid watching that episode, I was like, yeah, what a church
20:52is like, like someone that's yelling at you because every time you go, you have something
20:57to repent for, which, hey, guess what, newsflash, we all do every day because we're not
21:01perfect, you know, but I don't, I don't, I don't know.
21:06And I guess I'm like, I'm a hard enough person on myself.
21:09The last thing I want to go to church for, even my husband said that again, my husband
21:13was raised with zero religion, none whatsoever.
21:16My husband is one of the most amazing, kind, grace giving men I've ever met in my life,
21:23you know, and he's, to me, he's the perfect example of, you know, what a Christian is, even
21:28though crazy, he wasn't raised with anything, you know, but he evokes this, that's just
21:33who he is.
21:34And that's what he said.
21:35He's like, why would you want to go to church and be like yelled at?
21:39Or why would you want to go and be told?
21:40And I'm like, I exactly, I don't know.
21:43He's like, I couldn't go to church like that.
21:45Like he goes, you know, we go now and he's like, we all need that reminder.
21:49That's like, hey, cool.
21:50You're not perfect.
21:51Neither am I.
21:52None of us in here are.
21:54And every day we fail.
21:55And every day that's, that's where, cause we're human.
21:58You know, and again, but, but you're only raised with one.
22:02Um, and I think, you know, like I said, in that it creates a very judgmental, um, very,
22:08uh, again, I know you guys have, you've gone, you guys have all talked about this.
22:11And of course I saw this very much again, even though I have a great relationship with my
22:16parents, I always have, um, still do.
22:19Um, I know, like, I know not everyone has that.
22:21I know not everyone has that.
22:22And I think that's one thing that I struggled with ever calling it a cult, even though weirdly
22:27I have been drawn to cult everything, my entire life, every memoir, every documentary I've
22:33watched it.
22:34I've read it.
22:34Like it's always fascinated me.
22:36Well, you know, there's a, there's a reason.
22:38Um, but I fought calling it a cult and I'm sure there's a lot of people probably feel the
22:42same way maybe because I didn't lose connection with my family.
22:46Even when I was going off like the deep end.
22:47I mean, even when I went through my like early twenties, like really rebellious phase.
22:52Um, I, I didn't, my family, uh, from grandparents to aunts, uncles, cousins, no one was like,
22:57Oh God, we can't, don't speak to Rebecca anymore.
23:00She's, she's off the deep end.
23:02Nobody did that.
23:03They might've talked about it.
23:04I'm sure in private.
23:04Oh, I'm sure.
23:05A lot of people have talked about my, you know, but nobody did that.
23:09And so I always felt like I had a good support, you know, and there's a lot of love.
23:13And so again, I struggled.
23:15I was like, well, it's not a cult because like I'm not kicked out because I wear jeans.
23:19Like nobody stopped talking to me, but then it's when you start really diving into what
23:24a cult is, um, and you start getting into more of the dynamics of, like I said, it's
23:28like, it, it doesn't have to fit one specific mold.
23:31Um, but there's a lot of, again, cause my husband, like I said, he listens and he's like,
23:36honey, you were in a cult.
23:40Well, and think about Dr. Stephen Hassan's bite model.
23:44Everything that you have mentioned has supported this.
23:47You, you talked about the dress code.
23:48Well, that's behavioral control.
23:50We've talked about the airplane, which half the cult doesn't even know is a failed prediction.
23:54Well, that's information control, right?
23:57The thought control.
23:58You're, you're thinking constantly.
24:00I can't even pray to God if I don't have the dress code of this guy.
24:04It's thought manipulation, thought control, right?
24:07And oh my gosh, the emotional control.
24:09We were emotional train wrecks.
24:12And here's what's really hard.
24:14And I've worked with lots of people who've gone through this.
24:17You're an emotional train wreck, but you don't even know it.
24:20You bottle it up while you're in the cult.
24:23After you leave, when you start processing it, everything that you have bottled up, for
24:27me, it was 37 years.
24:2937 years of emotion comes out instantly and you start diving in, much like you described.
24:36I'm diving in, trying to figure out, researching what's true, what's not.
24:41Yes.
24:41And my emotions are going haywire.
24:44And every person that I talk to who comes out of it, that's exactly what happens to them.
24:48Yep, it is because you, like I said, I always, I question so many things.
24:54But again, this is where I think the cult aspect really hit me.
24:58Okay.
24:59I realized it.
25:00Oh God.
25:00I realized it whenever actually we went in to talk to the junior pastor that actually
25:03baptized me, my husband at our church here.
25:06And he was asking about the way I was raised.
25:09And I was like, oh boy.
25:10Okay.
25:10How do I, you know?
25:12And so I said, you know, I was like, well, you know who Brother Branham is?
25:16And he was like, yes.
25:16And it was then afterwards that I realized I was like, I said, Brother Branham, you know,
25:21because that's all I know him as being called, you know?
25:24And that was all you still, I realized I was like, I think I'm still, I'm still putting
25:29him a little bit on a pestle.
25:30And again, this has been a man I have not followed.
25:32I have done whatever I wanted since the moment I walked out of my parents' house.
25:36I have had him like, this is weird.
25:39So as he said, it's that box.
25:40I carried it around.
25:41Didn't realize it when I really wanted to.
25:43I was like, okay, God, I'm done running from.
25:46You, I want to follow, but, but I'm, I'm questioning this, you know, and that was when the box.
25:51So upon my questioning, upon, like you said, reading the Bible truly from beginning, I mean,
25:57you've said it and it is truly the most empowering thing I think you will ever do.
26:01If anyone's struggling, even with just do it, just, just do it because there's so many
26:07things that from what he has said, I mean, I tell you, when I go down a rabbit hole, I
26:10do, I become like my own little like documentary.
26:12Like I have, I mean, I don't even trust you sometimes like you'll say something and I'll
26:16be like, hold on.
26:17I'm going to look that up myself.
26:18And I'm like, Oh my gosh.
26:20Oh my, you know, and then I, then I go down and know, cause that's how I think I'm like,
26:24I can't just believe anyone.
26:25If they, I got to find this out myself.
26:27You know, I got Brian small's book.
26:28I got, I mean, I just really wait, you know, because I'm like, well, one day, like if my
26:33parents, I want to be able to back up in a respectful way, maybe, but I need to, like,
26:39I want to know all that I could know.
26:40So I, again, rabbit hole crazy.
26:43But I, but I just, like I said, I, I started questioning.
26:46And so again, going through all that, reading the Bible, going to church here, talking to
26:50other pastors.
26:51Um, and I think you've said it, and again, our pastors here have said it and something,
26:55you know, amazing that was like, was like, you know, Christianity is supposed to be simple.
27:01It is not supposed to be the matrix.
27:04This is not, um, what did, what did I call, um, I can't think of the, like the Da Vinci
27:10code,
27:11you know, it's, it's not.
27:12Esoteric.
27:12Yeah.
27:15You know, I have, um, we're, we're recording this long before this comes out, but I have
27:21next week, which will probably be three or four, maybe five weeks before our podcast
27:26comes out, talking about how Gnosticism and the esoteric type of gospel, it developed from
27:33the mystery cults, but it came into Christianity through multiple streams, many of which Branham
27:38was writing on those streams.
27:40Yeah.
27:41And what is a mystery cult?
27:42Well, mystery cults were this ancient philosophy that if you were, if you had the, the secret
27:49knowledge that only came from God, or they use the term Sophia sometimes, this secret
27:55knowledge, if you had it, you were the elite, the spiritual elite, you were saved, you had
28:00the secret knowledge.
28:01Well, this entered into Christianity and formed what's called Gnosticism.
28:05And in Gnosticism, you had Christians who thought, we have the secret knowledge, the
28:10other Christians over there, they don't, they're not going to make it.
28:14We're the ones who are saved.
28:16And Irenaeus, who was one of William Branham's chosen church age messengers for the dispensational
28:23church ages, condemned the whole thing.
28:26And like you're talking about whenever you started reading the Bible, you just unpacked
28:31this.
28:32I started with the Bible, but I also was reading other things as well.
28:36And one of the things that I read were, and I think there's multiple books of against
28:40heresies, and I'm reading through all of these heresies, and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is
28:46condemning everything that I stand for.
28:49And yet, it's just Gnosticism, rebranded as the message, sold to people, and the God that
28:56it's teaching is not the God of the Bible.
28:58No, no, it's mind-blowing, like you said.
29:01And you, once you start, and again, the, see I went off, that was where I went off another
29:06squirrel there, but it was like, that was where I realized that the cult type was this
29:10fear of even like looking up Branham.
29:13I realized I had that, you know, and because you weren't supposed to question, well, that's
29:19a cult.
29:19Like, if you feel like you can't question someone, like who, you should be able to question
29:24anything.
29:25Anything should be able to be, you should be able to form a reason, you should be able
29:29to, you know.
29:29And so, like you said, during that time where I'm just really talking to God, and my God,
29:33I'm going to be real, like I, I don't, I don't want to do any part of the way I
29:37was
29:38raised, but if that is somehow, if that is the correct way, I will, you're going to have
29:42to lead me, and you're going to have to show me, and then, like I said, ironically, all
29:45this, it's like false prophets, it was like daily on my devotional, it was daily, I was
29:49like, all right, I think, you know, okay, I'm understanding, I'm going to start, so then
29:53it just became just some, some Googling, you know, it just became some, I recently had
29:58an aunt and uncle that I look up very much to, that actually very recently, like
30:03within the last year or two, actually left, and that was a big, you know, to the
30:08family, and, but, you know, so even things like that, and so I knew some information
30:13that they had used, and, you know, I went down, but anyways, of course, my Googling
30:16led me to you, you know, which, which got, like I said, again, here we go, whole, you
30:21know.
30:21For a person who struggles with the squirrel effect, my research, it makes you, it's a
30:25thousand squirrels, how do you even unpack this?
30:29Yes, that was what I had to do, it was one squirrel at a time, and it was very, I'm
30:34not
30:34even kidding you, and so you'd be, I'd be listening to you, and I'm like Googling something
30:37else, and I'd be in like Brian's book, and I'm like, what?
30:40And you're just, you know, like you said, it was just like, you know, and I'm like, even
30:43this stuff that I had always, like, many things that I had questioned, but we're, like, the
30:50more I went into it, you were just like, oh my gosh, like, how is anybody a part of
30:55this, and I get it, I know that could be any, any cult or any religion that can be, like,
30:59put into, but whenever you unpack it, you're like, well, no wonder even as a kid, I was
31:04like, this is just kind of like, you know, I don't know, I just, it was, it's been very
31:08interesting.
31:09It's like peeling an onion, you peel a layer, and you peel another layer, and you keep peeling,
31:13and these layers keep coming off, but then you get to the middle, and there is no core,
31:17it's just, there's no substance whatsoever.
31:19Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started, or how the progression of
31:24modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign, charismatic, and other fringe
31:30movements into the new apostolic reformation?
31:33You can learn this and more on William Branham Historical Research's website,
31:38william-branham.org.
31:40On the books page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles
31:46Paisley, Stephen Montgomery, John McKinnon, and others, with links to the paper, audio,
31:52and digital versions of each book.
31:54You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those
32:00movements.
32:01If you want to contribute to the cause, you can support the podcast by clicking the
32:06Contribute button at the top.
32:07And as always, be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're listening
32:13to or watching.
32:13On behalf of William Branham Historical Research, we want to thank you for your support.
32:19So I remember when your grandfather came, and I listened to the whole story about the
32:22plane and the dreams that was having.
32:25There were two brothers, I'm assuming that it's your grandfather that I've met, but I
32:31have somewhere in this room this collection of all this Branham stuff.
32:34I've got a shrine back here.
32:37Somewhere in my shrine, I think I even have his testimony.
32:40But he talks about how William Branham said, I'm going to take you on one great trip through
32:46the end of days, and then we're going to have a tent.
32:49We're going to fly me from town to town until the tent's planted.
32:53And see, my sect of the cult, we believed, because it came from William Branham to my
32:59grandfather, that it's going to be very difficult to get to this tent.
33:03But you have to be there, because if you're not there, you're not going to be saved.
33:08When you get there, you're going to go in this little room with William Branham, and you're
33:12going to be given your new bodies.
33:14That was our secret.
33:15That was our Gnostic belief.
33:16That was our secret Gnosis, right?
33:18And then, in the same recording, the same testimony, he starts talking about this dream that he
33:26had of how heaven was this pyramid, and Jesus was in the top room of the pyramid, and all
33:33of the houses, the mansions that we have, they weren't really mansions, they're just
33:37elements of the pyramid, building blocks of the pyramid.
33:40And I remember scratching my head thinking, you know, that sounds a little weird.
33:44And I was probably, I don't know, I think 16 when I first heard this, 17, something
33:49like this.
33:49I'm like, that sounds a little bit weird.
33:52And now, as an adult, I'm looking back at that moment, the pyramid thing sounded weird,
33:57but the tent thing, where this human is going to give you a new body, that didn't sound weird.
34:02We were so messed up.
34:06Yeah, yeah.
34:08Like I said, I think there's a reason that, as a kid and a teenager, I just checked out.
34:13I don't know, I guess that was my own, again, I think that was my own protection in a weird
34:18way of like, I couldn't, like, I couldn't follow it.
34:22And so I couldn't follow all of this stuff.
34:25Like, it didn't, it didn't make sense.
34:27So I think, like you said, you just check out.
34:29And so, yeah, with my, with my grandpa's testimony, again, it was, there was always my
34:34whole family, especially, obviously, my mom's side, that was just the way it was going
34:39to go.
34:39And there was no, and we believed, they believed that my grandpa was just, I mean, he was,
34:44he was not going to pass away because Brandon was coming back.
34:49They were going to, my grandpa owns, I think still has land in Texas, like oil fields.
34:55There was, again, all, it's a little bit hazy, some of the, all the details to that, but he
35:01was coming back.
35:02They were going to, the oil fields, they were going to do all that, the plane, the, so my
35:06grandpa did, I mean, he physically bought this plane and there was, it was my, my grandpa's
35:10a pilot and, and had an airport.
35:12And so when my grandpa got sick and with cancer and he's, he's dying and the whole family is
35:20trying to get him to make his will.
35:22My grandpa has all of these assets.
35:24You've, he's got airports, got plane, like you have to have a will.
35:29And he was literally, I mean, not, you know, dying and, and was saying like, no, I'm not
35:34going to die.
35:34He was, I mean, he would refuse to do this will.
35:38And, um, again, finally, um, the family members and I think an attorney, um, finally talked him
35:45into, okay, you know, you're not, but you got to just, just do this, you know, just, just
35:50for us to have peace of mind.
35:51Um, so he finally did, uh, make or at least sign the will, um, you know, before he passed
35:57away and so I think even whenever he passed away, I think I thought, okay, surely this
36:03is going to make, you know, my mom, my, everyone's going to be like, oh my goodness.
36:09Okay.
36:09This stuff did not come to pass.
36:12So we can maybe, maybe we should maybe question just a little bit, even though like we love
36:17our dad, we love our, our parents, we love, but maybe they didn't have all the answers
36:21either.
36:22Maybe they were led astray by, you know, um, but no, it's, it's a.
36:27Very odd psychological phenomenon that people will almost cling harder.
36:32Um, something me and my brother both do not grasp because to us, we're like, um, we talk
36:38about it a lot.
36:39Like I said, we don't understand the dynamic of why that, well, like I said, I think I
36:43had my mom's older sister did, um, kind of finally, you know, start, they started questioning
36:48some things.
36:48And again, I think it was more because their kids started questioning things.
36:52It was their oldest son who figured out the bridge story was untrue.
36:56Um, when he started dismantling it, he would start just saying a few things, you know, planting
37:02those seeds.
37:03Like, did you know that that didn't happen?
37:05Um, and, and so, like I said, it kind of started them kind of a little bit more spiraling, um,
37:10as their kids kind of all left and grandkids were like, yeah, I want nothing to do with
37:14that.
37:15Um, there has been, yeah, so many things that, like I said, then for my own parents, I don't
37:22know.
37:23Um, again, I still have so many that are in it that are, and I thought that that was really
37:27going to kind of be an aha moment.
37:29Um, that shockingly was not, um, because it was, it was for me, even though it was
37:34like, but I still kind of was like, okay, yeah, that's, well, he's passed away.
37:38And none of those testimonies came about, um, along with so many others.
37:42And yet, you know, we're still, we're still there.
37:47Like, it's, it's odd for those of us who had family that was traveling or spent time
37:54with the so-called prophet.
37:55But it's really odd.
37:57My grandfather, I can remember him saying, and he would get real quiet before he told
38:02it.
38:03So you're getting spooked, right?
38:04He would spook the people, which is emotional control, emotional manipulation.
38:09But he would do this, and he would say things like, Brother Branham told me you got to make
38:15it to that tent, and it's going to be really, really hard to get to that tent.
38:18But he said, when you get there, Brother Collins, you're going to get there, and you're going
38:22to see that little room.
38:23Well, he, my grandfather died.
38:24I thought, like you, well, half of the things that he said, that William Branham said about
38:30him, that he was alive for those things.
38:33Surely it's going to wake people up, but they don't.
38:35They bury themselves further into the sand.
38:38Another thing, he, and this is really sad when I think about it.
38:42One of my family, I'm not going to mention which, but one of my family was dating somebody,
38:47and Branham told the, it's a female, told her that she should drop that guy and do this
38:55other, get this other guy.
38:57So manipulating the family relationship, and I don't remember all of the details, so I may
39:01get part of that wrong.
39:02But the climax of the story was, one day, I'm going to be right before the end of days,
39:09I'm going to come visit you in Brother Colin's motorhome, and I'm going to ask you how happy
39:16you are with this new guy.
39:18Not the guy that you were with, but the new guy.
39:21So now, in hindsight, I'm looking back.
39:23Number one, he just destroyed a relationship.
39:26Who does this?
39:27What kind of minister does this?
39:29Number two, my grandfather's dead.
39:31The motorhome's been sold.
39:33I think I know who has it.
39:35None of that can come true, and I remember I sat there every Sunday listening to my grandfather
39:42tell all these things.
39:43I know every face that was in that crowd.
39:46Every single person who is thinking about this, they have to, at some point, be thinking,
39:51well, none of that can be true.
39:53So what is the next logical step?
39:55Do they think my grandfather was lying about it?
39:58I honestly think that they go down that pathway, but then here's where it gets really weird.
40:03Those who are in, those who know, those who know all the lies, when they see somebody
40:09like me or you leaving, they actually are happier that we've left because we can't question
40:15the things that fully contradict and undermine the entire foundation.
40:19So even though I'm doing what I'm doing, there's a part of them that wants me to be
40:25away from the people so they don't have to hear it.
40:27Yeah, it's an excellent point.
40:29Yes, because they, I hate to say this, but I mean, this is even with my own parent, but
40:35they want to live in their own denial, I think.
40:39And again, I think it goes back to, once again, and very, very common with cults, especially
40:43obviously religious, well, any cults.
40:46It's why all the times they frown on religion, or religion, why they frown on education.
40:51Not so much because education is, again, I'm a very strong person in my beliefs.
40:57I can, you know, I've gone to multiple different colleges, actually got my bachelor's from Liberty,
41:03which is a Christian university.
41:05And so even within that, which was really awesome in a way, because every paper I wrote,
41:11every discussion board I posted, anything we had to do, we had to have, obviously have
41:15peer-reviewed journals to back up anything we're going to talk about.
41:18You have to be able to back up what you're, you know, you have to support it with actual
41:23factual evidence.
41:24Then we also had to pertain it to the Bible, because it was a Christian university.
41:28And we had to, that almost got me even the same thing, like more a way, even because
41:33it was like, yeah, you know, you can, you can pertain all these where it's still like
41:38scientific, factual.
41:39But what it does is, like you said, the biggest thing to me is that all education is going
41:43to make you do, maybe not just believe everything everyone says and just take it as like full.
41:49And that's where I think they frown on education.
41:51It's not even as much as sometimes of what you learn or, oh, they're afraid you're going
41:55to be brainwashed by, okay, sure.
41:57There's, but it's more of just like, it's just, and again, I think, again, I came into
42:01the world like that.
42:02It wasn't like I was going to be, I didn't need college to even like, that's always been
42:05me.
42:05I question everything.
42:06I'm a very, but I'm also very like black and white.
42:08I'm very, yeah, you can't tell me something like, I need to be able to be like, okay, prove
42:14it.
42:14Let me just, as long as I can see the evidence and you can, I'm like, I got you.
42:18I understand that.
42:19Or I can see where you're coming from or give me your perspective.
42:22Like, but there has to be, you have to be able to back something up.
42:26And I realized that my whole growing up, nothing was ever really backed up.
42:30It was just, no, that's the way that it is because brother Branham said that.
42:35Do you know how crazy I looked the first time I told my best friend that I've had since
42:38seventh grade about the serpent seed?
42:39Because I thought that was, you know, normal.
42:42I was like, well, you know, Eve, she was with the devil and she, and she was looking at
42:45me like, I had lost my mind.
42:49I remember the first time I told somebody, I was like, oh no, that's, that's a secret
42:53that we have to keep to ourselves.
42:56So what's funny is I have a very analytical mind.
42:58I've always had it.
43:00And I didn't question the message, which is a little bit ironic, but I did have a mind
43:05that thinks, and I love science.
43:07And I'm one of the few people, when I heard William Branham use science to back his claims,
43:14I thought that this was a way to prove yourself, right?
43:17What I didn't catch was that whenever it was in his favor, he would use science to back
43:22it.
43:23And then if it was never in his favor, he would condemn science and science is of the
43:27devil.
43:28And I'll never forget encountering message people who, when I talk about anything scientific,
43:33they just went berserk.
43:35You can't do this, John.
43:36Science is of the devil.
43:38Look at Cain and his seed and his race.
43:40And I'm like, what?
43:42And I, at that point in my life, I knew how science works.
43:46They, they fully were, Branham was lying, but the people, worse, the people accepted the
43:52lie to believe that science is such that they come up with some, some nonsensical theory
43:59and you have to adopt it.
44:01That's not how science works.
44:02You present a theory and then you have to prove that theory.
44:06And sometimes you even present the wrong theory so that you can prove the right theory.
44:12So there's a science, there's a scientific method.
44:14That's what I'm talking about.
44:15I knew the scientific method.
44:17And the irony is while knowing this method, I wasn't applying it to my faith or my religion.
44:25Otherwise the whole thing would have just crumbled instantly.
44:27Constantly.
44:28Yeah.
44:28It's, it's, it's like I said, it's, it's an odd and you're right.
44:31When it was in his favor, it was always fine to use that.
44:34And again, we, but you can't, we can't do that.
44:37You know, like we cannot do that in any kind of educational, like you can't do that.
44:42It has to be all the way around.
44:43And there has to be a, yeah.
44:45So again, like I said, being looked at crazy for serpent seed.
44:48And then, um, that one always questioned myself.
44:51And, uh, that was always actually probably one of the biggest that I even remember as
44:54being younger, being like, that's, um, once again, you go read the Bible yourself.
44:58And, um, I think something I even talked to again, my, my one uncle that has like left,
45:04um, I had a long conversation with him one day and that's what I told him to.
45:07I said, you know, um, even if that was the case, I said, if, if Cain's seed that, you
45:13know, line was the, I said, wouldn't the flood, when Noah, when the flood have wiped out, um,
45:18that line, wasn't that, you know, the point.
45:21And so he was like, oh, I hadn't even thought about that.
45:23You know what I'm like?
45:24But again, we could go to all these, but like you said, there, even if you were going
45:27to use that as the case, but I said, there's so many things that you just, um, you go back
45:33and forth.
45:33And, um, I think there was, there was one episode you talked about, um, uh, you went
45:38on something about, about eagles, um, and you know, they would, uh, they will eat, uh,
45:43was it roadkill?
45:44I can't remember, you know, it was something along those lines that, you know, um, that
45:48was actually one of the first ones that I've done is I'm trying to, I'm trying to plant
45:52seeds in my parents' heads slowly without just, you know, and, uh, whenever I was there
45:57actually over Christmas, um, whenever I got over being sick and we went there for a few
46:01days and that was one of the things I just mentioned, they start talking about, uh, bald
46:05eagles.
46:05And I said something about, I was like, Hey, they're actually in the vulture, uh, family.
46:09And my mom's like, no, I said, no, they are.
46:11I didn't actually look that up.
46:13And it was just, that was just, but again, these are things that are not, this is a quick
46:17Google search.
46:18This is a chat GBT.
46:20Like these are not hard things to like, look, I don't think I've ever told this on the podcast
46:27and I know I'm going to embarrass my friend to death, but when we first come out of the
46:31message, I, I, I went through this deep study of alcohol, which I've talked about a few times.
46:37Wine actually helped me overcome deep depression.
46:40Well, I had a friend who, same thing.
46:43He, he went down the same path.
46:45He left the message and he says, John, I'm coming to Jeffersonville to meet with you.
46:49So we stopped at a restaurant and had, I had a glass of wine.
46:53He, I don't know what he had, but we're sitting there having left the message where Branham
46:58is saying that we're like the Eagles and the Eagles is God's bird.
47:02And I had not two months before this, I had discovered the passage in the old Testament
47:07where it said, these are the birds that God abhors the Eagle.
47:11And so we're, we're sitting there, we're having drinks and we look out the window and I kid
47:16you not, a bald Eagle flew down at that moment and got something off of the road.
47:21I kid you not.
47:24You can't make this stuff up.
47:26And you know, you're talking about all of the things that we were taught so twisted and
47:33so wrong.
47:34Some of them I did question, but I didn't question the whole movement.
47:38Here's, here's the irony.
47:39This one I questioned a long time ago and it, it really undermines the entire basis of
47:44the faith.
47:45He would often say that whenever the people got baptized in the name of father, son, and
47:51Holy Ghost, he said they had to be rebaptized to be saved.
47:55Well, the Bible doesn't say that.
47:57And I knew because even back then in the message, I had read the Bible.
48:00I know the Bible does not say that.
48:02But, but there is a passage that says, how were you baptized?
48:06We were baptized unto John.
48:08What I did not recognize was that he was twisting the truth just a little bit.
48:13There were, there were people that were rebaptized, but not because of the formula.
48:19John was baptizing before Jesus unto repentance.
48:22And so he was asking, how were you baptized?
48:24We were baptized unto John.
48:26The reason why I did question it and I didn't question it like I wanted to become, leave the
48:32oneness faith and become Trinitarian.
48:33I still kept my one, my message oneness belief, but I had friends in school who were Trinitarian
48:40and they were just as solid of a Christian as I was.
48:44And I got to thinking about it and I got to thinking, well, if Jesus said to be baptized
48:49father, son, and Holy Ghost, how can I condemn them when they're doing exactly what Jesus said?
48:55And then my mind went there, but I shut it off.
48:59I remember putting that on the shelf.
49:00Well, does that mean if Jesus was saying it and it's wrong, does that mean Jesus was wrong?
49:07Was he, was he lying to those people?
49:09My mind actually went there, right?
49:11But then I'm like, oh, I can't question that.
49:14I'm not going to talk about that anymore.
49:16No, you'll, you, again, we all go down our own rabbit holes of, and sometimes it'll make
49:21your brain hurt after a while.
49:22Um, I did that too.
49:24Again, oh my gosh, getting baptized in like a modern mega church.
49:29Like I was nervous.
49:30Yep.
49:30No, I, I literally, because again, there are so many, and this is where, again, this was
49:35where my awakening really happened because at 37 years old, I had to go, hold on.
49:41I'm carrying a lot more of this than I realized.
49:43I maybe have been living my life the way that I've, I've wanted to, or, um, I thought that
49:48I was picking my version of Christianity, but I realized that I was still kind of holding
49:52on to thinking that that was still the correct way.
49:56That was the sad part that I had to finally, um, I really, like I said, figure out because
50:02I was like, wait a minute.
50:02If you're still believing that that's still somehow the correct way and you're picking
50:07your way, but you are afraid that like, oh my gosh, but, but what if, like you said, well,
50:13God's not gonna listen to my prayers because I'm, I'm wearing jeans.
50:15You know how long it took?
50:16I was still wearing, I could only wear a skirt or a dress to church, even going to a mega
50:20church where everybody wears whatever they want.
50:22I was just like, I still, I couldn't even like, I wear jeans every day to work, but I was
50:25like, I can't wear that to church.
50:27Um, it just took me like over the last couple of months to where I could finally be like, well,
50:32no, if you don't think that, you know, to, to finally like get into these different like
50:36comfort zones.
50:37And it's crazy.
50:37Cause like I said, even my husband has watched me.
50:39He's like, you've never, um, re-question all of these things that again, I hadn't, um,
50:46even a ton thought about, like I said, I just, I just kind of shoved it away.
50:50And, um, but yeah, the baptism, oh my gosh, I was so nervous.
50:54I was like, oh my gosh, they're going to baptize me in the father and son, the whole.
50:57So I did the same thing.
50:58I came home and I was like, open my Bible.
51:01And I looked up that scripture and I was like, that's what it says.
51:05It says baptize in the name of the father, son, and the Holy spirit.
51:09There is no, that is in like the King James.
51:11I have two different Bibles.
51:12I have like a, um, study Bible.
51:15That's a more modern.
51:15Um, and then I have a King James.
51:17Okay.
51:17And that is, there was no way you could decipher that.
51:21It was like, no, that's, that is exactly what it says.
51:24I was like, why, why were we told I read it?
51:28I read it again.
51:30Um, I told my husband, I said, my life right now, I feel like it's a game show of like
51:34cult
51:34or not like, you know, drum roll.
51:37And I will literally hear something and I, or I'll think of something and then I'll go,
51:41Oh gosh, is that actually biblical?
51:43Or was that the way we were brought up?
51:45Not to scare you, but I've been out of this since January 1st, 2012.
51:50Every single day that thought hits me every single day.
51:56It's comforting.
51:57Cause I know I'm like, I'm going to be doing this for a while.
51:59Um, because again, it's stuff I hadn't, I just, I've ignored it.
52:02And then all this and now, and I go to church and I sit in a church and they'll say
52:05something
52:06and I'm like, Oh, and I do the same thing.
52:09Sometimes I have to like look things up or I have to go back.
52:11I'm like, Oh, that's so not what we were told or that's, but that's, then you go back
52:15and I'll look in my Bible when I get home and I'm like, it doesn't say that there is
52:19no, we were just, like you said, it was just, it was pick and choose and taken.
52:25I, and again, I think another part of this, like coming out of it.
52:27Cause I know, again, I love when you talk to people on here, people that have left, those
52:31are some of my favorite, um, again, probably cause I love memoirs.
52:34That's always my favorite type of book says I love hearing people's stories and I love hearing
52:37cause everyone has a very unique story.
52:39Um, I don't have, like I said, a lot of the anger, I think a lot of people carry, and
52:43I understand
52:44why a lot of people carry that anger.
52:46Um, because when I hear some of these stories and like the abuse, um, what their families
52:51do, I understand that.
52:52I don't have that personally.
52:55What is hard for me is sometimes I'm not trying to sound like higher than, but it is kind of
53:02hard to, when you, when you know, and you've just taken the time to look into, into is to
53:08kind of respect or to look at other people that are so adamantly in this, no matter what
53:13information is presented to them.
53:15And they are going to deny you, or they are going to believe wholeheartedly.
53:20And this is people that you love.
53:21And it's very hard to accept that, to be like, why can you not open your eyes for one minute?
53:28I've done that my whole life.
53:29I've listened to people that are completely different ideas than me.
53:33And I can sit there and listen to them and be like, okay, you know, I, I have, like I
53:38said,
53:38cousins that are, they are full atheists.
53:40You know, they want nothing to do with God and they went through some really awful things,
53:45some abuse, some, I have seen people that have gotten, like you talked about good friends
53:50that got talked into marriages and they were awful people because they were told you have
53:54to marry someone in the message.
53:56And they marry these people and they're, they're, they're all, they can be awful.
54:00And not, again, that's, of course not everybody.
54:02That's not, um, but, but because you are, again, you're told that like everything has to
54:07fit this one way when people hide under this, this persona of, you know, oh yeah, they go
54:13to church all the time.
54:14And they, and I'm like, that's sometimes can be the worst ones, you know?
54:17And, and like I said, it, it, it angers me in ways that like, I see cousins that I have
54:22that again, or they're like, I think petrified to get married and they're wonderful people
54:26that have so much to give.
54:28Um, they have great careers.
54:29They have great, but I think they are scared because again, if you believe like, well, if I
54:34marry this man and he's a absolute monster, I'm like, even if I get divorced, but I can't
54:40ever get married again, I'm going to live my life.
54:42My mom has a great friend who has lived her life by herself because her husband left her,
54:48you know?
54:48And, and it just, and there's so many things that, like I said, once again, I'm like, why
54:53is everyone so willing to sometimes live in a sense of denial or misery, um, that I just
55:00chose to not be in.
55:01But then, like I said, whenever I finally was like, I'm just, I gotta, I gotta look into
55:06this because I have to be able to live comfortably in this new skin of mine, um, of going, of,
55:11of discovering real Christianity and real Christianity is not like the Christian.
55:15It's a lot different.
55:16Yeah.
55:17Yeah.
55:17So you have just recently come out of this and it's fresh on your memory.
55:21For me, it was January 1st, 2012.
55:24So this is a long time for me.
55:25For somebody, there, there are a large number of people contacting me who are escaping right now
55:30for the people who are escaping.
55:32What advice would you give them for starting out on the journey?
55:35Because this is a difficult journey.
55:37I think the biggest, and I get, I know some people, they want to throw God out completely.
55:43And again, everyone has a different story.
55:45And so I've seen that firsthand, but I would say maybe before you do that, like you said,
55:50read the Bible yourself.
55:51Um, I'll get emotional, um, but go to it.
55:56Like you said, you've talked about this, but try different churches, um, talk to people
56:01that are not, we're not raised in this.
56:03Um, talk to people that are, like I said, you will find a level of Christianity.
56:08That is not, it is not, we were raised with.
56:11And again, I have a lot of love for my family, but I saw a very, very judgmental.
56:15I still see it, um, where somehow there's a hierarchy and, you know, of thinking that
56:20you're better than it's not like that.
56:23That's not what Christianity is.
56:24Christianity is not a judgmental.
56:26It does not mean that you have to accept everything.
56:28I do not accept everything, but it is also not my job to think less of someone to put
56:34myself above them or to think that I am better than them.
56:36That is nothing because I'm so far from perfect every day.
56:40I fail and so far from perfection.
56:43So I think the biggest is, like you said, you've said it, I think to try different churches,
56:47um, talk to different people, whether they're different faiths or talk to find a group and
56:52just, and like you said, sit, read the Bible, go, go down rabbit holes.
56:56If you need to, um, uh, whatever rabbit hole you need to go down, if it helps you, I needed
57:02a lot of those.
57:03Um, I needed a lot of, like I said, black and white proof.
57:06I needed to be able to feel, um, and I just, like I said, I'm just there to say that
57:11I finally
57:12feel a peace that I have never felt in my entire life.
57:15And it took me, um, to get to 37 to finally feel a peace with Christianity of being like,
57:21oh wow.
57:22Yeah.
57:22God, um, he doesn't care about all this stuff that I thought he cared about.
57:28Um, it's at the end of the day, like I said, it's like, you know, you have the 10 commandments
57:31you've got.
57:32What did he say?
57:33The most important is, uh, love God and love your neighbors as I was, you know, and that's,
57:38those are the most important.
57:39He gave us two and we didn't do that a lot of times growing up.
57:43Like you said, it was, um, so I just, like I said, find, find a good support.
57:48Um, and even if it's other people that have left or if it's, um, like I said, you've, you
57:53guys have been a big help.
57:54And, um, cause a lot of times even our, my own spouses, I've talked to him, but they don't
57:59always understand if they weren't in something like this.
58:02Yeah.
58:02It's hard.
58:03Well, thank you so much for doing this.
58:05This has been fun.
58:06Yes.
58:07Thank you so much, John.
58:08Thank you for having me on.
58:09Awesome.
58:09Well, if you've enjoyed our show and you want more information or to share your story, you
58:13can check us out on the web.
58:14You can find us at william-branham.org.
58:17For more about the dark side of the new apostolic reformation, you can read weaponized religion
58:21from Christian identity to the NAR available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.
58:43We'll see you next time.
59:14We'll see you next time.
59:34You
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