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00:00But, so, were you able to get what you needed out of the Combine?
00:04Sal was there for the same length of time, I guess, right?
00:06Just for, long enough to get into it.
00:08Yeah, it's weird.
00:10It's kind of like I learned early on in my career.
00:12It's kind of the same deal as the Senior Bowl.
00:14Like, the first time that I went to the Senior Bowl, I, like, stayed for the game, and no one
00:18was there.
00:19And the first time I went to the Combine, I, like, stayed through the weekend,
00:22and it was like a ghost town after being bumping during the week in terms of media and agents
00:27and rumors flying and talking, obviously, to a lot of the prospects.
00:31So, it's actually pretty good if you're a media member to be there from, like, early in the week
00:36until Wednesday or Thursday.
00:37And then, like everyone else, sit on your couch and watch all the workouts over the weekend.
00:42What, if I may ask, were a couple of highlights for you while you were there?
00:47Hanging out with Sal, hanging out with a lot of the other Buffalo media members.
00:51It's always fun.
00:52Like, you kind of see in the hotel lobby bar, like, you can see, like, okay, there's the Buffalo media.
00:57There's the Philly media.
00:58There's the Boston media.
00:59It's not totally segregated, and obviously a lot of these people know each other,
01:02but just hanging out with those guys was a lot of fun to just talk bills, talk, you know,
01:08early draft stuff, free agency stuff.
01:10I was on a few podcasts here and there, not just Buffalo-related,
01:14and just got to start to nerd out about the NFL draft a little bit.
01:18That's what I like the most.
01:19It's like you're at a big convention where there's no such thing as talking too long
01:25or going into too much depth about football and arm length and draft philosophies
01:31and free agent philosophies.
01:33So everyone that you come in contact with is that same type of person,
01:36and you're all kind of congregated in one city.
01:39Well, naturally, it belongs in a convention center then because it's like a convention.
01:43I mean, that's like-minded people.
01:46Yeah, arm length, hand size, all this kind of good stuff today with the linemen at work.
01:50What matters here, Chris, like your professional perspective on how important this kind of data is?
01:57Well, I know that it's like, first off, people want to just laugh at it and say,
02:01oh, arm length doesn't matter.
02:03Look at how good he was in college.
02:04If we're going to talk about Reuben Bain from Miami,
02:09I get why people want to say that because it seems silly,
02:12but there is a lot of historical data now that we have that indicates that arm length
02:17for defensive linemen and for offensive linemen, we talked about Will Campbell a lot
02:21after the Super Bowl, it matters.
02:23Now, it's not the ultimate disqualifier or something that even 95% of the time
02:30hints at someone being not able to play in the NFL,
02:33but Reuben Bain and even Cassius Howell, who's been mocked to the Bills
02:38in a few of like the Daniel Jeremiah, Bucky Brooks mocks at NFL.com,
02:43had arms under 31 inches, and that is ridiculously short,
02:48and they're going to be facing not ACC and SEC offensive tackles.
02:53They're going to be facing on Sundays guys that are anywhere from 6'4 to 6'9
02:58with 34, 35, 36-inch arms.
03:02It's going to make things a lot more difficult for them.
03:04So I think even before these guys have worked out,
03:06and a lot of them are actually working out now,
03:08it does kind of put a little ding or a red mark on what are two really good
03:13edge-rusher resumes.
03:14One being Reuben Bain, who you named,
03:16and it was reported that he's not going to do anything else at the Combine,
03:20work out or run or do anything else.
03:22So what will that mean?
03:23He was a top what prospect, and how does that change maybe?
03:28Well, I think from the consensus from talking to a lot of people about him
03:32this week and just going into the week, he was a consensus top 10,
03:37maybe even top 5 prospect, but there were all those concerns
03:40of how short are his arms going to be, how little is his wingspan going to be,
03:45and he looked kind of short on film.
03:47He was 6'2", a little over 6'2", I think just over 260 pounds,
03:52so he's got like enough weight, but he's reasonably short,
03:56and he has historically short arms for the position.
04:00And we've talked about it the last three or four years on this show,
04:03that more so than anything else, of course you need to have a good college career
04:07to be a first-round pick, but the freak athletes and the guys that do check
04:12all those measurable boxes, those are the prospects that are almost always picked
04:17inside the top 5, inside the top 10, inside the top half of the first round.
04:21Now I think the conversation could arise until his pro day,
04:25and I'm sure at Miami he'll test reasonably well,
04:28but could Reuben Bain maybe not be that top 5 or top 10 pick,
04:32and then teams outside of the top 10 would probably feel like,
04:36hey, we're getting reasonable value now on a player that we thought
04:39was not going to be available.
04:40Yeah, this is fundamentally so much of what draft analysis is,
04:45which is performance versus measurables,
04:48and then you consider the quality of the competition, age, and everything else.
04:54It surprises me we don't have the technology to know
04:57how long somebody's arms are until we measure them.
05:00Shouldn't we be able to just watch Miami and be?
05:03Yeah.
05:04Well, like teams, I mean, it's obviously not public-facing,
05:07or even the media doesn't have access to it,
05:09but teams obviously kind of hint at, and we hear it on broadcast,
05:13that they have the tracking data, and they know how fast a player's running
05:16on the field, and it's different from the combine running in the 40.
05:20I'm surprised that there's not a way that with all of the 50 different angles
05:24and 50 different cameras that they have for a game,
05:27that they could say, oh, he's got this short of arms.
05:29I think people knew maybe just through, like, the scouting rumors
05:33and that you could kind of tell on film,
05:35but I don't think anyone thought that Reuben Bain's arms
05:37were going to be under 31 inches.
05:39I believe there's only been three other edge rushers at the combine
05:44since 1999 to have arms under 31 inches.
05:48So that's just to kind of set the precedent of the type of physical deficiency
05:53that he has, even though otherwise he would be an elite prospect,
05:57really, I think, in any other class.
05:58Also, aren't your arms supposed to be, like, your height stretched out?
06:02Usually, but I think we'll see.
06:05I haven't gotten a chance because I just got home to check some of the guys
06:09on the other end of this, but a lot of players, when you're watching them,
06:13it's like, oh, my God, he's 6'4", but his arms look like they belong
06:17on a 6'7 body type.
06:19So it's usually pretty proportional, but for someone like Reuben Bain
06:24to be over 6'2", not every 6'2 guy, I mean, there will be receivers
06:28that are shorter than him that have longer arms than him.
06:31So he just has kind of a unique build in that sense that didn't necessarily
06:35harm him or hinder him in college, but again, when you're going that step up
06:39from the ACC to the NFL, it can make a big difference.
06:42I've always heard this, whatever, myth or truism that that's your height,
06:47fingertip to fingertip with your arm stretched out, but now I know it's not
06:50always the case because of the NFL combat.
06:53Yeah, there you go.
06:53There are exceptions.
06:54And why wouldn't there be?
06:56With Chris Trapasso, so Chris, the second of these players you're telling us
07:01about here, Cassius Howell, you say, is somebody that might be expected
07:04to be in the Bills' range of the first round, and he also had the short arm
07:09measurement today, so what might that mean?
07:11Is this the same situation, just a guy that's not rated as high to begin with?
07:15Yeah, I think for a lot of people, and kind of how I viewed him, is that
07:19it's like if you adored Ruben Bain on film, and probably if you wanted more
07:24of a stand-up outside rush linebacker, which the Bills presumably do now,
07:27if you can't get Ruben Bain, Cassius Howell is like the 1B option,
07:31or he's like the light version, L-I-T-E version.
07:34Now I think, I'm not going to say that he's going to be disqualified
07:38from being the 26th overall pick, but I think for the Bills' sake,
07:42it probably increases the chances that he's at least available
07:45when they go on the clock, because again, with Bain, the film
07:50and the production absolutely make him a top 5 or top 10 pick
07:53just based on that alone.
07:55Howell was very productive in the SEC at Texas A&M, so it's not like
07:59he's someone that just was an athleticism-only type prospect,
08:04but not quite as good in terms of his production and the film,
08:08but now I think you could be talking about him as maybe an early
08:11second-round pick, and there will eventually be, obviously with Bain
08:15and Howell, a team that's like the talent and what they showed
08:19on the field in college is just simply too good to pass up
08:22at this point in the draft, just might be a little bit later
08:24than we all thought going into the combine.
08:26On the other side of things versus a couple of guys who may be
08:29disappointed in this stuff is Caleb Banks.
08:34What can you tell us about Caleb Banks?
08:36So Caleb Banks, I sent out a tweet as I was making my way back here
08:40to Buffalo today that I saw his measurables.
08:44He's 6'6", 325, 326, and a lot of people responded like it could be
08:50a Pat Williams, Ted Washington-type situation if the Bills were to draft him.
08:54He is a ridiculous athlete.
08:57He's like almost like a sleeker version of Deion Walker,
09:02and he's more explosive than Deion Walker relative to his size,
09:05if that's believable.
09:07And coming into the season at Florida, it was like, okay,
09:10this guy's going to be top five, top ten pick like Reuben Bain.
09:14And then he didn't play quite as well, which is, again,
09:17weirdly similar to Deion Walker in his final season.
09:19And then he got hurt just like Deion Walker.
09:22So I think going into the combine, there was a thought maybe mid-portions
09:26of round one, maybe late round one, that if the Bills wanted to just solidify
09:31that defensive tackle spot once and for all, and they have two mountains
09:36in the middle, Caleb Banks could be that guy.
09:38But I think I saw from Daniel Jeremiah, he had a really big broad jump
09:42and a 32-inch vertical, which at 6'6", almost 330, to be above 30 inches
09:48is like astronomically high.
09:50So it feels like because earlier in his Florida career, Caleb Banks was projecting
09:57and kind of felt like he was going to be that top half of the first rounder,
10:01a little bit of a bummer of a season in 25, got injured,
10:05and now seems to be all the way back and is just a legitimate specimen
10:08with crazy long arms too.
10:10So you don't have to worry about that.
10:11I think he had over 35-inch arms.
10:12So he is really that built-in-a-lab type defensive tackle.
10:16While we're talking defensive guys here, and we have some numbers
10:19from the combine to work with, David Bailey is your number one player.
10:25Yes.
10:27So he's someone that he's not a name that right now I think is drawing a ton of buzz,
10:33but for people that watched college football last season
10:35and saw how good Texas Tech was, especially on defense,
10:38it wasn't just the linebacker, Jacob Rodriguez.
10:40David Bailey was sensational, and he's someone that in talking to a few scouts
10:45that I know in the league and a few other of the nerdy-like-me draft analysts
10:50are like, oh, yeah, David Bailey is a top-five pick all day.
10:52I mean, he's a little older, and usually the edge rushers that are that productive
10:56are usually 21, 22, but everyone's kind of adjusting and realizing in the NIL era,
11:02especially coming from Texas Tech because they brought in a lot of transfers,
11:05that there are going to be guys that can still be picked highly that are 22, 23, 24.
11:11I think he's 23 right now.
11:12But everything from the production, the bend, the power, all of it's really good.
11:18And then to see that he didn't have short arms and he tested really well,
11:22big-time vertical broad jump.
11:23It feels like now, and again, it seems unfortunate for someone like Reuben Bain,
11:29but the disparity in their measurements and potentially their workouts once we see Bain
11:34work out at his pro day, that it feels like David Bailey will actually be the first edge rusher
11:39off the board.
11:40Maybe even this, or I guess maybe Arvell Reese from Ohio State will also be in that conversation,
11:46but could be one of the first picks after Fernando Mendoza goes number one overall.
11:50With Chris Trapasso?
11:52All right, so Jeremiah Love, the unanimous maybe number one running back prospect here.
11:59Earlier on the show, I was talking to Theo Gremminger about him from Fantasy Points.
12:03I was going to say, this is your fantasy question, right?
12:05Well, he doesn't have to be taken in that context.
12:08Okay.
12:09But, you know, sure, feel free to mix in how you feel about whatever landing spot he gets
12:14from a fantasy standpoint.
12:15You're always welcome to go in that direction, especially with me.
12:19Yeah.
12:19Theo said that he thinks it's realistic that Love could go as high as number three in this
12:25draft to Arizona, and that Tennessee makes sense at four.
12:29I don't know about the Giants.
12:30Maybe that's up to the Scadaboo injury at five.
12:33That even in a period of time after Gentee, who went six, and he wasn't bad necessarily,
12:41but it didn't work, at least last year.
12:44And then whatever you want to say about Bijan Robinson, who's excellent, but he's never sniffed
12:48the playoffs either.
12:49What do you think?
12:50I know how you feel about running backs in general.
12:52We're like-minded about that.
12:54It's interesting to me, Chris, that even with those examples, the league might still be ready
13:00to go even higher with a running back prospect on teams that lost 14 games.
13:05It seems sensational to me that that is actually true, but yeah, there were some rumors just
13:11talking to people at night that Giants' rumor about Scadaboo's injury that they would be
13:16really interested in Love at five.
13:18It almost felt like, and this is still relatively early in the process, but that like Jeremiah
13:23Love's floor was the Chiefs at nine.
13:26And I'm like, did the Chiefs not learn from drafting Clyde Edwards-Elaire when they thought
13:30they were just a dynamic running back away?
13:33Like, and I mean, obviously the Chiefs went on to accomplish a lot of things, but it was
13:37in spite of that first round running back pick.
13:40Yeah, it is pretty crazy.
13:41I mean, I've cooled on the idea to be completely steadfast, 100% against picking a running back
13:49in the first round because obviously you're getting that player technically in his prime.
13:54I mean, he's 22, he doesn't have a lot of wear on his tires, like that's the time that
13:57you want him to be inserted into your offense.
13:59But to your last point there, I think is a really good one.
14:02Would I ever want to pick a running back if I'm a GM of a team that has a top
14:0610 selection,
14:08meaning we're not really that close?
14:10No, I wouldn't.
14:11So I think Jeremiah Love to me is like a better, more NFL-ready version of Travis Etienne, who's
14:18turned into a pretty good running back.
14:20It took him time, he got injured.
14:21But similar style, bigger body, runs kind of high, but super explosive, very well balanced,
14:28can hit long runs, can be elusive, contact balance is all there.
14:32He's an elite running back prospect.
14:34But if we see Jeremiah Love go somewhere in the top 10 in 2026, that's just music to the
14:41ears of everyone picking after that because a player in a more premium position will be
14:46available.
14:47The one thing I will say that could be part of the reason why Love is going to be pushed
14:52up higher, the running back class is not very good.
14:54Like, it's really bad.
14:55It's not just last year there was Gentry, but there were so many others that were guys
14:59that you could get excited about.
15:01I've tried to watch players that have excited me at the running back position, just not
15:05there.
15:06I mean, his teammate Jadarian Price is there, Emmitt Johnson.
15:08But beyond that, it's a very barren running back class.
15:12So if a team really feels like the Cardinals feel like they're a running back away, I could
15:16see him ultimately going that high for that reason, too.
15:19And they shouldn't probably feel that way.
15:21No, they should not.
15:22They should not.
15:23By the way, fun fact, CEH got carries for the Chiefs this past year, including in the
15:30game against the Bills.
15:31Oh, he did.
15:32You're right.
15:32They brought him back.
15:33They brought him back for two games.
15:34I mean, he went seven carries for 13 yards, and that's probably it.
15:37Oh, there you go.
15:37But that did happen.
15:40The latest on the quarterbacks from you, Chris.
15:43So that'll be Saturday, I guess, when they work out.
15:46And Simpson will be interesting.
15:47I wonder, what can he do?
15:49What can the quarterback of Alabama do?
15:52I mean, I say that that way because of all the visibility he'd already have received.
15:56What can he do for himself at the Combine, good or maybe even bad?
15:59Well, wait.
16:00Can I first remind all of your listeners that you were on Ty Simpson before anyone when
16:05you direct messaged me in October?
16:08You were like, hey, this Simpson guy, does he look like he could be a first-rounder?
16:11And I'm like, oh, actually, I think so.
16:13And then now it's like he's going to be the second quarterback off the board.
16:16It's a pretty good early call by you on that one.
16:19Lucky guess.
16:19And I don't watch many games, so I got a little carried away there.
16:22I'm not even sure it played out that well.
16:25I mean, he didn't finish the season very strong, I think.
16:28No, that's true.
16:29I think what he could do is, I mean, I'm not sure.
16:33I haven't seen the reports if he's going to do a full workout or he's just going to throw.
16:37It seems like usually the quarterbacks the last five to seven years that are cemented in
16:41specific spots, like they don't want to work out.
16:45If I were Ty Simpson, I would, unless I know I'm just not that great of an athlete, I would
16:50try to run the 40 and do vertical and three cone because I think that's one of the elements
16:57that Fernando Mendoza, he's not a big-time athlete.
17:00And that's one of the biggest separators for me, and it seems like the general draft industry
17:07as well, that he's not a Caleb Williams, he's not a Trevor Lawrence, he's not an Andrew
17:12Luck, he's not that off-script, scrambler-type player.
17:17And I think if Ty Simpson showed everyone, hey, Mendoza's not doing anything, he's just
17:23going to go through interviews and basically just talk to the Raiders, I'm assuming.
17:26But hey, I have, you know, I can run in the four sixes.
17:30I have a 35-inch vertical, I can do a little bit more off-platform or off-structure and
17:36as a scrambler.
17:37That's probably the best thing he could do because there's not really much of a difference
17:41arm talent-wise between those two quarterbacks.
17:43To me, I think it's silly to really, outside of a workout, in terms of the throwing session,
17:49I don't think it's smart to be taking anything away majorly from what those quarterbacks do
17:55throwing the football on air.
17:57Okay, two more.
17:59Over-under, first round, one and a half tight ends.
18:03It's starting to sound maybe like over.
18:06Yeah, the Ohio State kid is the other one.
18:09I'm blanking on his name right now.
18:10Kenyon Sadiq is going to be a first-rounder and he's kind of fascinating because he's not
18:16Rob Gronkowski frame.
18:18He's more like Charles Clay type frame, which is traditionally not picked that early.
18:22He's going to be like, I'm assuming, like in the 6'3 range, 240, he's not really that
18:28big.
18:29Unless I'm totally blanking on another tight end, at this point, it seems like one, the
18:35Ohio State guy from talking to people like at the bar, at night, at the hotel lobby, it
18:42was that Ohio State tight end who didn't have a lot of opportunities in that scheme because
18:48of Jeremiah Smith and all the other talent that they've had at wide receiver, but he
18:53feels like that upside play.
18:54But that is a position where watch the combine and see, does anyone shoot up the board by
19:00running in the four fives with a 40-inch vertical and could ultimately be that late
19:0620s to early 30s pick based on upside alone?
19:09That would be Max Clare, I believe.
19:11Max Clare, that's his name, yes.
19:13There's also Eli Stowers from Vanderbilt, who athletically is supposed to be outstanding.
19:18So I wonder what, I guess it depends some, of course it does, on what the other position
19:24groups look like when you get to be around the Bills pick, not that they would draft a
19:28tight end.
19:29It would be pretty crazy if they did that.
19:31I'm here for it, though.
19:33Why not?
19:34Just a little chaos.
19:36Who's a wide receiver?
19:37Because that's the law.
19:38We have to talk about that position at least once in our conversations.
19:42Who's somebody, maybe a new name, or that you thought about while you were in Indianapolis?
19:46I know they don't work out until Saturday.
19:48Is there someone you want to add to the conversation, maybe?
19:51Have we talked about Ted Hurst?
19:53You mentioned him once, and then since then and now, he's got some good reviews.
19:59Yes, he's big.
20:01He apparently played really well at the Senior Bowl.
20:04I don't really consider that much for my evaluations because it's just like a week of practice.
20:09But coming from a smaller school level at Georgia State, he was like your classic ex that just
20:14dominated the competition.
20:16I want to see how he works out.
20:17Is he like a good athlete for Georgia State's football conference, or is he like a good athlete
20:22by NFL standards?
20:23So Ted Hurst is someone that I don't know if he could test all the way into the first round
20:28unless he has a DK Metcalf type combine, and I don't think he would do that.
20:32But if the Bills go in a different direction in round one, round two or even round three
20:37would absolutely be a possibility for him.
20:40Omar Cooper Jr., it seemed like he came into the week without a lot of buzz, and then everyone
20:45talked about how much they loved him on film from Indiana.
20:49He, to me, is very, very similar to DJ Moore, and I bring that up.
20:53That's like my comp for him right now until he works out.
20:56We'll see if those workouts compare because Joe Brady was DJ Moore's offensive coordinator
21:01in 2020 in Carolina when DJ Moore averaged over 20 yards a catch.
21:06It was one of his most productive seasons in the NFL, and there's been a lot of these
21:10thoughts of, hey, maybe the Bills should trade for DJ Moore.
21:13Well, to me, it would make sense to just draft someone that's very stylistically similar to
21:18DJ Moore and get a 23-year-old that's not going to cost you an arm and a leg at
21:24this
21:24point.
21:24Works for me.
21:25Chris, good work.
21:26Are you glued to NFL Network here the rest of the week?
21:29Yeah, I mean, I don't want to say glued, but I'll certainly be, it's more tracking everything
21:35that's happening.
21:36They really only show the 40, and every once in a while you'll get like, oh, here's this
21:40guy's vertical.
21:41Definitely tracking it online, though, and seeing the measurements and then three-cone and all
21:47of the data that comes out, it's really fascinating to kind of see, obviously, just how the guys
21:51test, but again, to crystallize where these players will most likely be picked based on
21:56a lot of what transpires in Indianapolis.
21:59Very good.
21:59Always good information, and it's great to talk to you always.
22:02Thank you, Chris, and we'll do this again soon.
22:04All right.
22:04Thanks, Mike.
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