- 9 months ago
Protect but Don’t Stifle How Should We Regulate Tech
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00:00Hello, hello. Good afternoon and a very big welcome in VivaTech. Hello to you here, presence with me and all
00:08of you remotely with us. My name is Delphine Sabatier. I'm a tech journalist and I'm your host this afternoon.
00:15We are going to have a great session, many great sessions this afternoon. We are beginning with democracy and regulation.
00:23This is a one-hour segment, so this discussion will be divided in two parts. I propose to kick off
00:30now with the first discussion, protect but don't stifle. How should we regulate tech?
00:59Welcome. After years of fast growth, the tech industry is in the center of important regulation efforts all around the
01:08globe, but we will be looking at North America, Europe and China in particular.
01:12How far does this need for increased regulation go and what change for users? What are the most meaningful changes
01:23in regulation that could transform the tech landscape?
01:26For this talk, we are very pleased to be joined by my colleague, Clotilde Goujar. Clotilde Goujar is a journalist
01:33at Politico and she will be more reiterating this discussion. Thank you, Clotilde. Welcome. Please welcome also her panelists today
01:43on stage.
01:48Clotilde Goujar. Hi, Clotilde Goujar. Thank you for being here today. Thanks, Prabhat, for joining this panel and Rebecca as
01:57well.
01:58We'll dive right into the topic of this panel about regulation and innovation. Prabhat, the mood has really shifted recently.
02:06There's been a lot more regulation coming from the EU
02:09and specifically on online platforms, free speech, trying to find this balance between letting platforms develop and innovate and yet
02:17protect democracy, protect kids.
02:20Can you tell us a little bit more about why the Commission and the EU more generally thought this was
02:27a good time to modernize its kind of regulatory arsenal when it comes to online platforms?
02:36Thanks, Clotilde Goujar. Welcome to all. It's a pleasure to be here. I'm Prabhat from the European Commission, as Clotilde
02:42has already said, and it's true I'm in charge of some of the regulations that have come to regulate the
02:50online environment later on.
02:52I think my commissioner, Thierry Breton, is going to be on the main stage to give you also his version
02:58of it.
02:58You know, I work for him, and it's true that two years ago the European Commission decided to come forward
03:04with two big flagship initiatives to regulate the power of big online platforms.
03:09You know, one is the Digital Services Act, which deals with content moderation issues online, whether it's TikTok or Instagram,
03:17but also marketplaces.
03:18And the questions there was how can we make sure that the rules that the platforms use are in line
03:24with our fundamental rights and how can we prevent the proliferation of hate speech or other kinds of illegal content
03:31while also, you know, having an eye on new phenomena such as disinformation and so on.
03:38And the other one is the Digital Markets Act, second big flagship initiative, and that tries to regulate the big
03:45gatekeeper platforms, one that some of you maybe, if you're developers, are familiar with.
03:51If you're an app developer and you want to develop an app, you basically have only two outlets in the
03:58Apple App Store and the Google Play Store.
04:00And basically you have no way of setting conditions or negotiating anything, so you've become this enormous dependency on this.
04:08And so what we wanted to do, Clotilde, was to really set European ground rules for basic procedural requirements that
04:19you have.
04:19And one analogy that I'd like to use, it's a little bit like putting fire exits and fire extinguishers into
04:27a concert hall or fire alarms.
04:29We're not saying what people can say online and what they can't say online, but we want to make sure
04:35that people have an emergency exit out there.
04:37So in a nutshell, that's a little bit what we try to do with our European rules.
04:43Rebecca, if we move to China, it seems from what we see here from Europe, the Chinese government is trying
04:50to limit the use of video games for kids, trying to take a closer look at algorithms, have a much
04:59better control of companies' data.
05:02What has been, can you tell us a bit more about the approach the Chinese government has taken in terms
05:07of tech regulation?
05:08We're happy to, and thank you, Clotilde, again, welcome to everyone also from my side, very happy to be on
05:15this panel.
05:16So at Merix, where I work, we focus entirely on the study and analysis of contemporary China.
05:23So I'll be speaking just about what China has been doing in this space.
05:27It's what we explore in our work.
05:30So we've seen a regulatory storm in China since October 2020, where when Jack Ma gave that now infamous speech
05:42to Chinese financial regulators and then N Group's $35 billion IPO was halted by regulators.
05:51But indeed, since 2019, China has enacted some sweeping laws to govern e-commerce, anti-monopoly on the internet, data
06:02security, personal data protection, and so on.
06:06So there's been a lot of movement since late 2020.
06:10We've also seen a lot of sector-specific regulations, and these really touch on every corner and aspect of consumer
06:18internet and related business models, from the ways that app collect user data, to how algorithms push content to users,
06:28and also how platforms engage in anti-competitive behaviors, or exploit gig workers.
06:35Enforcement has been very aggressive.
06:38We've seen record antitrust fines on China's most competitive tech companies, a cybersecurity probe into Didi, the right-hailing giant,
06:49after it listed on the New York Stock Exchange.
06:52So there's been a lot going on, and it's been really an unprecedented wave of regulation and enforcement as well.
07:01I'd say two things about China's approach.
07:04I think the first is that some of the policy drivers behind this regulatory wave are actually quite similar to
07:13those that we see here in the European Union.
07:16So consumer and workers' protection, fair competition online, data protection, and so on.
07:24Other aspects of China's approach are instead quite unique to its authoritarian political system.
07:31We see, for example, that platforms are required to spread Chinese government propaganda or conservative gender norms.
07:40You mentioned that minors have to limit the time that they spend playing video games.
07:46So there are some elements of the approach that China is taking that are quite unique and deserve some clarification
07:52in the European context,
07:54where we're used to an approach that prioritizes user rights and civil liberties.
08:00That's not the approach that China has been taking.
08:04Prabhat, at the Commission, what sort of things are you particularly watching in terms of what China is doing with
08:11its tech regulation?
08:12Are there specific laws or initiatives that it's taken that you want to watch out and preoccupy you?
08:23Yeah, we're looking globally at the moment, and we're working with several different international partners.
08:31We have a cooperation with the United States and the Trade and Technology Council,
08:34and of course we're watching and cooperating as much as we can with businesses in China.
08:43One thing that I want to just bounce off on that Rebecca said is that while we may have the
08:48same problem analysis around the world,
08:51saying, well, content moderation needs to be somehow regulated,
08:57big tech monopolies need to have clear rules to avoid abuses,
09:03I think it's really important to stress that the solutions in Europe are really fundamentally different.
09:08So we have a strong voice for civil society, a focus on user empowerment,
09:13and we have very strong protections for fundamental rights.
09:16Of course, I'm also, as a dad, concerned about the hours that my kids play online,
09:21but I wouldn't want government to tell me how to do that,
09:25and I think this is a little bit the approach we try to take in the Digital Services Act.
09:30So, to answer your question, Clotilde,
09:32we're quite worried when we look towards China about user rights, about fundamental rights.
09:38We have recently signed a Declaration for the Future of the Internet with 60 partners.
09:45It was initiated by the European Union together with the White House and a number of other partners,
09:52and that just upholds a number of values.
09:55You can look it up, Declaration for the Future of the Internet,
09:58and it just really emphasises that regulations, in our view, around the world
10:05must be deeply anchored in international human rights norms,
10:08and we're not persuaded that what Rebecca is describing kind of meets those standards.
10:14So that's a little bit our view from here.
10:17Rebecca, how does it look from the other side in China?
10:22How are they looking at EU regulation?
10:24So, the EU has certainly been a model for how Chinese regulators have been approaching the regulation of big tech.
10:36They started looking at, for example, the GDPR as a model when drafting what is China's equivalent,
10:44which is the personal information protection law.
10:47We know that Chinese drafters looked very closely at the GDPR.
10:51We also see some experiences from DMA and DSA being taken and being discussed domestically in China.
11:02There's an emphasis on platform responsibility, for example, in the Chinese context as well.
11:09There's an emphasis on user empowerment and ability to enforce their rights vis-à-vis tech companies.
11:17There are also some innovations that we're seeing, though, in the Chinese context that are quite, I would say, unique
11:25and break some new regulatory ground.
11:28I'm thinking about what China's doing to regulate algorithms,
11:31where there's an emphasis on making users able to opt out of being targeted by recommendation algorithms online.
11:43So, in terms of algorithms make explainability and transparency,
11:47China is exploring new ways to empower users.
11:51As I mentioned, we are talking about empowering users vis-à-vis tech platforms, vis-à-vis big tech.
11:59That means that the situation is very different when it comes to how the Chinese government itself uses algorithms.
12:08There's indeed quite heavy intervention now on the part of the government
12:13to make sure that algorithms, for example, spread or propagate core socialist values, disseminate positive energy.
12:23What does this mean?
12:24It means that tech companies are increasingly responsible also for platforming content
12:31that is perceived as politically correct by the Chinese government.
12:36And this is indeed a fundamental difference from the approach that the EU has been taking,
12:42which, as Prabhat was saying, is very much centered on users' empowerment
12:46and really human-centric in its entirety.
12:51So, that's a fundamental difference from China's approach.
12:54It's regulation of big tech and their abuses, not regulation of what state organs do online.
13:01Prabhat, we're here at VivaTech.
13:03I'm sure there's lots of startups and unicorns and European companies developing,
13:08and I'm sure they'd want to know more about what the DSA and the DMA means for them.
13:13So, if I'm a young entrepreneur, what sort of impact will the DSA have on me?
13:19Will it help me develop and innovate?
13:23Yeah, great question.
13:24And actually, this was something that we're really attentive to
13:28because we really believe at the European Commission that startup and innovation
13:32is really super important for the European Union.
13:37The tech startup scene and the tech economy grows at two times or three times faster
13:42than any other sector of the economy, even during the pandemic,
13:47or even especially during the pandemic.
13:48It was kind of a lifeline, kept the whole continent open.
13:52So, and a lot of innovations are really paramount.
13:57I think the key innovation in these regulations is that
14:00you have one set of rules for the whole continent instead of 27 different rules.
14:05And if you are starting up your business here in Paris or in France
14:09and you are looking to scale up in the European Union,
14:12what these rules guarantee is that you have only to respect the local rules
14:16that apply to you here,
14:18and you don't have to figure out how the rules work in Finland
14:21or in Italy or in Greece at the same time.
14:26So, I think this is one of the key innovations.
14:28And I think in particular in the tech sector where scaling is so important,
14:32you know, we only speak about startups, but we speak about scale-ups, you know.
14:36And scale-up means user acquisitions.
14:39You want in the platform business model,
14:41it's about how many users can you get to use your product.
14:44I think the key innovation here for startups or for entrepreneurs
14:49is that you have a predictable set of regulations.
14:53Maybe I just bounce back on one thing that Rebecca said,
14:56which I think is super important as well,
14:57is that we tried our best to be absolutely clear about what you have to do.
15:04And even though the majority of the rules apply to big tech companies,
15:08there are some rules that also guarantee that you don't have to set up an office
15:13in every European Union country.
15:15You have one office and operate from there anywhere in the European Union.
15:20But one part that really sets us apart, I think, also from the Chinese approach,
15:25is that we try to stay away as possible from vague terms like positive energy.
15:29And it sounds cool, but nobody knows what it means.
15:32And if you're a startup and you have to figure out what does it mean for my business
15:38to disseminate positive energy, that can be really dissuasive because you don't know.
15:43And if it comes with a threat of a heavy fine, that can be very, very bad for businesses
15:48because what positive energy means in Estonia may be very different from what it means here.
15:53So what we really try to do also to help small companies to comply with the rules
15:57and to be extremely clear about what they have to do,
16:04have many rights of redress to companies.
16:08When something goes wrong, there are many ways by which you can get help
16:12and give the courts in the European Union a strong role as well,
16:16even local courts, to help you get your rights as a business under these rules.
16:21So those are things that we try to put in place to help particularly entrepreneurs.
16:26Maybe one small addition we can go into more depth is that
16:30we try to look a little bit forward as well.
16:33We didn't want to only regulate the past.
16:35We try to look a little bit towards the future.
16:38There'll be new innovations out there, you know, NFTs around product safety,
16:43illegal content will be tagged or not tagged with traceable solutions.
16:48There'll be innovations around how to plug in via APIs into the data that the platforms have
16:56and it'll be made available to other innovators as well.
16:59At the moment, there's a lot of data hogging going on.
17:01That's particularly the case in the DMA.
17:03We've put in place some more innovations that hopefully will trigger some new business models as well
17:11based on data that is at the moment being perhaps concentrated, perhaps excessively concentrated
17:16in the hands of some small number of companies.
17:20Rebecca, you've been speaking about sort of this heavy-handed approach to regulation from the Chinese government.
17:26What sort of impact is it having on innovation for businesses operating in China?
17:33Yeah, that's a fantastic question and it ties back to what Prabha was saying
17:38about the need for terminology to be extremely clear
17:41and for regulation to be predictable for the industry.
17:45Now, that's not what we've seen so far in China.
17:49Indeed, we've seen regulation heavily impacting the consumer tech sector,
17:55significant layoffs in sectors such as ed tech, e-commerce, content and entertainment industries.
18:05Companies have seen billions of dollars of valuation being burnt in the span of a few days.
18:12So, the way that the enforcement campaign has been conducted in China
18:17has really impacted the industry very severely.
18:20Now, I do think that, I suspect that Chinese tech firms will be able to adjust to the new normal
18:29after this period of unpredictable regulation.
18:34Just a month ago, the Communist Party officials met with tech firms
18:38to reassure them that the government is still supporting the sector.
18:42So, we're seeing some moves to balance regulation with attempts to stimulate the industry,
18:49considering that China's economy is under tremendous pressure.
18:54And that is also very much politically sensitive ahead of the National Congress
19:00of the Chinese Communist Party, which is the most important political appointment
19:04taking place later this year.
19:06So, there will be attempts, I think, to make sure that regulation also doesn't impact negatively the economy.
19:16I would say one thing, which is that I've seen these arguments sometimes,
19:22especially from some voices in Silicon Valley saying that
19:26because we have to compete with China, we should not regulate big tech at home.
19:32That's been something that I've heard from the U.S. context.
19:38I think it's interesting to see that China itself, not being a democracy,
19:44is recognizing the need to regulate big platforms as it should be.
19:49So, it's not necessarily true that more regulation will impact innovation negatively.
19:58However, I am concerned that the direction that the Chinese government is taking
20:04is one of greater Communist Party control over the industry.
20:11That's been true in the fintech industry, for example,
20:15where there's a strong emphasis on government regulation.
20:18The Chinese government has also tried to have a greater say in corporate key decisions
20:26by purchasing equity, securing a board seat in major tech companies.
20:32So, that type of action, I think, may jeopardize innovation and entrepreneurship in the long term.
20:39So, China's strategy may backfire and ultimately hurt the sector.
20:45For that, given China has taken such a different direction
20:49in terms of fundamental rights and all its values,
20:54the U.S. has taken a pretty clear stance with its position with China
20:58and recently the Secretary of State, Anthony Blinken,
21:01called on American companies, especially tech companies,
21:04to not sacrifice their American values and technical advantages when operating in China.
21:11Is that something, what's your approach in Europe with the European Union?
21:16Are you advising, what is your advice to European companies when operating in China?
21:23Well, I think there are many facets to this question.
21:28Of course, we expect European companies to abide by local rules
21:34but also to be respectful of international human rights norms.
21:38And so, this is not a secret.
21:42I think we have, for example, a proposal now on supply chain integrity,
21:48where we are, this is not in the area of tech regulation,
21:51but European citizens expect that the products that they use
21:55are not based on human rights violations.
21:58But it's not always easy to understand whether this is really happening or not.
22:03So, just to give you an example, from another sector in the supply chain context,
22:08where we have a new proposal right now,
22:12that seeks to ensure that there is reasonable certainty
22:15when it comes to conflict minerals.
22:18This is already an ongoing proposal,
22:21but here is a conflict mineral regulation,
22:23but now here also in sustainable supply chains,
22:25that, for example, lithium batteries and so on.
22:27So, the general advice is, of course, you know,
22:30that you must have an ethical compass.
22:33And this is also, by the way,
22:35why we have recently proposed a set of kind of more digital principles
22:39which lay down some ethical norms
22:42that are not necessarily as such enforceable in a court,
22:46but that I said, give some, you know,
22:49remind people of human rights norms.
22:51You know, there's also the United Nations guiding principles
22:55on human rights and businesses,
22:57which we support at the European Union.
23:00So, and these are kind of mechanisms by which we approach this.
23:05Having said that,
23:05we are also concerned specifically
23:10on persistent market entry barriers.
23:13I think this is different for the tech sector as well, you know.
23:15There are European companies who want to set up,
23:19you know, want to enter the Chinese markets,
23:20and they are, you know,
23:22without immediately becoming human rights violators,
23:25you know, so for legitimate reasons,
23:27you know, but we see that there are still,
23:28you know, quite a lot of concerns,
23:31you know, about intellectual property protection,
23:33source code, integrity, you know.
23:35And so, you know, we hear from companies
23:37that they have to disclose source code,
23:40and then a couple of weeks later,
23:42and there's a kind of, you know,
23:44similar product,
23:45and then the Chinese market,
23:46and so those kind of things have to be analyzed
23:50on a case-by-case basis,
23:51but they form a bigger picture here,
23:54you know, so maybe the last point I want to say
23:57is that the conflict in Ukraine, of course,
24:01has now changed a bit the dynamics around this as well,
24:05you know, and global, you know,
24:08tech policies and tech regulations
24:09are also impacted by this,
24:11because what we see right now is that,
24:14you know, we've talked a lot about China,
24:17but also in Russia,
24:18we see a really very heavy-handed approach
24:19to censorship online,
24:21you know, suppression of access
24:24to basically any source of
24:26non-Russian information sources as well,
24:30and there, I think,
24:32we have tried to keep the internet open,
24:35the infrastructure connected,
24:39but, and, you know,
24:41and ourselves limited our own sanctions
24:45to really extreme cases like Russia Today
24:47and Sputnik of propaganda cases,
24:50but what we see in Russia
24:52is really a much more heavy-handed approach,
24:54you know, so what we're discussing right now
24:57is also impacted by this conflict,
25:01you know, which is kind of,
25:03has brought, I would say,
25:05the focal lights onto the kind of issues
25:08that we're discussing right now,
25:09and when you ask the question,
25:11well, fundamentally, where do we stand,
25:13and we really stand on the side of freedom here,
25:16you know, and this is really something
25:19that we, that we're very,
25:21of course, we are concerned about issues
25:22of disinformation,
25:23we are concerned about, you know,
25:26having access to reliable information,
25:28and, for example, in the COVID pandemic,
25:31this was a big concern, you know,
25:32we wanted to be sure that people get access
25:34to reliable health information as well,
25:36but we do see still a million miles of a gap,
25:40even though the words may sound similar
25:41to what other people are doing
25:45in terms of suppression of speech
25:46and approaches there, you know,
25:49but this will continue to be a challenge
25:51also in Europe, you know,
25:53where we see that some of the issues
25:55that we're discussing
25:57are societal issues, you know,
25:59hate speech
26:01is rooted in a problem in society,
26:03so let's also be clear here,
26:05and this is that while tech regulation
26:06is super important,
26:07it's also super important to get right
26:09so that it doesn't suppress free speech
26:12and it doesn't stifle innovation,
26:14which is the title of the panel,
26:16it's also not the only factor there,
26:18there are societal factors there,
26:20you know, investment, universities,
26:23you know, scale, size of the market,
26:25you know, the level of education in society,
26:27all of these things are also really,
26:29really important factors
26:30that we have to look at holistically,
26:32you know, and I'm just mentioning some,
26:33you know, if we look at the bigger picture,
26:36but...
26:36Rebecca, Prabhat was just speaking
26:38about the recent events,
26:39the Russian war in Ukraine,
26:42what sort of, has it had any impact
26:44on China and the way it's controlling
26:47its information space and regulating it?
26:50Well, definitely, I think,
26:52I hope it has brought to the spotlight
26:55the fact that China is siding quite closely
26:59with Russia regarding disinformation
27:02around the invasion of Ukraine.
27:05We're actually seeing quite strong coordination
27:08between Russian and Chinese state-sponsored actors online,
27:13also on Western social media platforms,
27:16there are attempts to spread disinformation
27:19and propaganda about the war,
27:21talking about U.S. bio-labs in Ukraine,
27:26spreading disinformation,
27:28blaming the EU, for example,
27:30for Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
27:33So this is taking place both within China,
27:36so within China, we're seeing platforms
27:38being required to take down content
27:42that isn't, let's say, pro-Russia
27:45or supportive of Russia's position,
27:48but we also see increasingly coordinated
27:51disinformation campaigns going on
27:54outside of China, including in Europe.
27:57This was actually flagged
27:59by the European External Action Service.
28:02Recently, the Stratcom division
28:06talked about this problem openly.
28:09So I think we have to realize
28:11that authoritarian actors are citing
28:14on the internet to propagate messages
28:19also using Western platforms.
28:21Western platforms were a target
28:23of disinformation campaigns from China
28:26already in the aftermath of the COVID-19 pandemic,
28:30where we saw really a disinformation pandemic as well.
28:33And I think Ukraine, the crisis in Ukraine,
28:36really is a new highlight
28:41in this authoritarian axis that's emerging.
28:45And in Europe, from a European perspective,
28:48I think we need to have the structures in place
28:51to counter that.
28:53The EU has already, I think,
28:55done a lot on tackling disinformation.
28:59I think more can be done.
29:02For example, Stratcom could be given a mandate
29:04to work more on China.
29:06That could be, I think, a welcome development.
29:09And also the EU itself, I think,
29:12in third countries could probably strengthen
29:15its own messaging on social media
29:19so that we're able to provide counter narratives
29:22in what really has become, I think,
29:25a battle of narratives.
29:28China's government wants to shape
29:30global information ecosystems
29:33and really spread narratives outside of China.
29:37So propaganda and censorship
29:39are no longer limited to China's borders.
29:42They're also propagated outside of China.
29:47Prabhat, this will be my last question for you
29:49to close up this panel.
29:50Brussels is very active, as we said,
29:53regulating tech.
29:54What are the upcoming laws
29:56that businesses here at VivaTech executives
29:59should be watching out for
30:00that could help their business
30:02or potentially add a new red tape?
30:07Well, I think that the kind of laws
30:12that businesses here, innovators,
30:15should be aware of,
30:16I think, are, in addition to the ones
30:19that we mentioned,
30:19are the new rules on cybersecurity.
30:21I think that those are really important sets
30:23of rules that they should be aware of.
30:25Those rules are meant to help businesses
30:29protect themselves more effectively
30:31against cyber threats as well,
30:35which are also increasingly cross-borders,
30:38meant to upgrade the institutions that we have
30:41to feed information.
30:43I think that's one set of rules
30:45that entrepreneurs here
30:47should be very much aware of.
30:50If you're working in the crypto space,
30:51I think there's a new regulation coming out
30:55on market and crypto assets
30:56that's just going to try and give
30:59a little bit of shape
31:00to the markets and crypto assets.
31:03So I saw a lot of stands here in this space.
31:06But otherwise, I think what I would say
31:08to entrepreneurs here,
31:10and I think there's a European Commission stand
31:11in the forum as well,
31:13is that also look at all the investment possibilities
31:16that are out there.
31:17So the Commission is making available
31:19through a variety of different instruments,
31:22a lot of money,
31:24a lot of help for investors
31:26in terms of financial support,
31:28but also networking support.
31:30There's a program called Startup Europe
31:31that's worth knowing about.
31:34So those, I'll stop here,
31:35but those would be some of the things
31:36that we should really promote a bit more.
31:41Rebecca, your closing remarks.
31:43What can we expect from China
31:45in terms of where the regulatory space
31:48is heading in the next year or so?
31:51So I think 2022 really is the year of implementation.
31:56We've seen really this regulatory storm
31:58I mentioned earlier,
31:59a lot of new laws.
32:00So regulators are still fine-tuning enforcement.
32:04Our companies are navigating
32:06this very uncertain environment
32:08with lots of new regulations,
32:10bureaucracies in China competing
32:12against one another
32:13to regulate companies.
32:16So there still is a lot of uncertainty,
32:18but let's say that the building blocks
32:21of the regulatory space
32:22have now been put in place.
32:25We see action in different areas.
32:28One is anti-monopoly
32:30and fair competition
32:32where there's been more and more
32:36focus on enforcement
32:37on internet platforms.
32:40There is then a focus on,
32:42as I mentioned earlier,
32:44algorithmic transparency
32:45and explainability.
32:47There's a three-year campaign
32:49that China's,
32:50that the Cyberspace Administration of China
32:53launched earlier this year
32:54to inspect tech companies' algorithms,
32:58which may result, I think,
33:00making quite heavy-handed interventions
33:03on the part of the government
33:05into really the technicalities
33:09of algorithms
33:10and how they're used by tech firms.
33:13So probably that's going to be
33:14quite intrusive.
33:16And then there's also the area
33:18of consumer rights protection
33:20where we've seen a lot of focus
33:23on protecting minors,
33:25protecting the elderly.
33:26That's going to continue as well.
33:30And finally, probably the implementation
33:32of the personal information protection law
33:35that's going to continue,
33:36again, with a focus on tech firms
33:40and how they handle user data
33:42that's very sensitive at the moment.
33:45Every company in China
33:46that handles personal data
33:48faces a number of requirements
33:51that weren't in place before.
33:54It's very stringent requirements,
33:56let alone if you want
33:58to transfer personal data
33:59outside of China's borders.
34:02That's going to be
34:03very, very interesting
34:05for companies to watch
34:06if they handle
34:07that type of sensitive data.
34:09The government, again,
34:10will be still free
34:12to use and misuse user data
34:15as it wishes.
34:18Thank you, Rebecca.
34:19Thank you, Prabhat.
34:20Thank you very much.
34:22Our time is up.
34:23I'm sorry.
34:24Thank you very much
34:24for your insight
34:25about this very important subject
34:27on regulation and democracy.
34:30Thanks a lot, Clotilde,
34:31also, for moderating this discussion.
34:34So, we have a second discussion
34:36I told you about sovereignty now.
34:40and for that
34:42I will ask you
34:44if you are online
34:45to click on the bottom stage 2
34:46to stay with us.