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The Madurai Deepam controversy is intensifying with RSS chief Mohan Bhagwat asserting that the Deepam issue can be resolved within the state on the basis of the strength of Hindus.
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00:00Hello and welcome. Good evening. You're watching Super 6 here on India Today.
00:03I'm Akashita Nandakopala. Over the next one hour, I'll be getting you all of the top stories of the day,
00:09including, importantly, a dinner meet that Prime Minister Modi is hosting for BJP MPs.
00:14We'll get you that live update, but also, let's begin by telling you what to expect on the show.
00:19We continue our sustained focus on the Deepam controversy in Tamil Nadu,
00:24with the RSS chief now wading in as well.
00:28Mohan Bhagwat's suggestion on what's happening, he says Hindus will come together and resolve this issue.
00:35We're going to be talking about that big statement from the RSS chief.
00:38We'll have a long panel also joining us on this broadcast, but also coming up on the show.
00:43Remember those images we showed you here on India Today of what's actually happening in Bengaluru's jails in the Parapanagrahara?
00:49The parties ended for the Bengaluru jail inmates.
00:53After our coverage, finally, we're seeing action taking place on ground,
00:57including surprise inspections.
01:00That, much more coming your way.
01:01I'm Akshita Anandha Gopal.
01:03Let's begin with the top 10 headlines.
01:08Five days after Goa Club fire, the killer Lutra brothers have been detained by Thailand police in Phuket.
01:14Pictures show both Gaurav and Saurabh Lutra in handcuffs.
01:17Chief Minister Pramod Savant says the Goa police will bring the brothers back and justice will be delivered.
01:22The Lutra brothers attempted to play victim, arguing that there's a threat to their life.
01:31And so, at this point, while they tried to seek anticipatory bail, no relief as the court has rejected their bail bail.
01:37Indigo pays for chaos with money.
01:42Offers 10,000 rupee voucher for flyers severely affected between December 3rd and 5th.
01:47Airline CEO appears before DGCA to present a status report.
01:51Aviation Minister Ram Mohan Naidu talks tough on Indigo crisis.
01:58Speaking at the agenda, Ajitak, he says complete blame lies with the airline.
02:02Wow, such a situation will never take place ever again in India.
02:08Election commission extends SIR deadline in multiple states.
02:11In pole bound, Tamil Nadu exercise to now be completed by December 19th.
02:16The trial court has granted interim bail to Umar Khalid for two weeks in the 2020 Delhi riots case.
02:24This is to attend his sister's wedding, the first time he's been granted bail in five years.
02:32Madurai Deepam controversy is intensifying with RSS chief Mohan Bhagwat asserting that the Deepam issue can be resolved within the state on the basis of the strength of Hindus.
02:41DMK has doubled down on its attack, insisting that the impeachment motion against Justice J.R. Swaminathan is justified.
02:50No more gala time in jail.
02:52A surprise check in the Bengaluru Central Prison has led to the seizure of mobile sims and sharp objects.
02:58This seized material was recorded and handed over to the police.
03:00After a stellar weekend, Ranveer Singh and Akshay Khanna's spy thriller is picking up mid-week as well.
03:08Durandar is also set to enter the 200-crore club in India.
03:13This while there's quite a bit of controversy.
03:15Hrithik Roshan's stirring the pot-raising eyebrows over the movie's political undertones.
03:19Let's game on in Chandigarh, India to take on South Africa in the second T20 International.
03:27Men in Blue leading five-match series 1-0 after a 100-run win in Qatar.
03:31So in just moments from now, Prime Minister Modi will be hosting a dinner for all the NDA members of Parliament.
03:48This is a special dinner he's hosting at his residence.
03:51We understand that the meeting will and the dinner meet kicks off at 6.30.
03:55So in 30 minutes from now, more than 50 tables have been set up at the Prime Minister's residence for the NDA MPs.
04:03The idea is that the Prime Minister will interact with all of these MPs,
04:08get a chance to speak to them about the issues in their constituencies, in their states as well.
04:13Aishwarya Paliwal is joining us live with more details on this.
04:17Aishwarya, what's on the menu both for dinner and as far as conversations and talks are concerned?
04:25Well, you know, Akshita, let me tell you what the Prime Minister will be doing.
04:30He will be speaking with each and every member who is present.
04:33He'll also be speaking about the fact what needs to be done next.
04:37When we speak about the state of Tamil Nadu, when we speak about the state of West Bengal,
04:40the BJP is very, very confident that in the state of West Bengal,
04:43they will be winning the elections and the same goes for the state of Tamil Nadu,
04:47where they believe that the alliance will actually pay off.
04:50The BJP is now looking at the next phase, what needs to be done next.
04:53The Prime Minister will also be speaking about certain things that he's been observing over the past few months.
04:59He'll be speaking about each and every one, how the betterment of Indian citizens can be done.
05:03So, at length, we will see the Prime Minister not just speaking about the future roadmap of the BJP and the NDA at large,
05:10he'll also be speaking about what each and every individual can actually do to make sure that we are on the path of progress.
05:16See, Akshita, the Prime Minister has been speaking about, you know, his larger vision, 2047.
05:20That's what the BJP often speaks about, they want India to be from a developing nation to become a developed nation.
05:26So, the kind of changes that need to be brought in and how each and every MP can actually work towards this,
05:32that's something that we will see being discussed.
05:34And SIR, of course, especially in the states where the exercise at the moment is on.
05:38My apologies for interrupting, but just wanted to bring our viewers' attention to the images on our screens.
05:42These are all the NDA MPs, they're all in buses, so there are multiple buses.
05:47Obviously, it's impossible for each of them to go in their private vehicle because this is a huge number
05:51that's going to be at the Prime Minister's residence.
05:55Every single NDA member of Parliament has been invited.
05:5850 tables, we understand, have been laid out.
06:01So, buses are already lined up there, Aishwarya, for that meeting with the Prime Minister.
06:10Well, Akshita, you know, the Prime Minister often keeps on, you know, meeting with the people, speaking with them.
06:16And this is an exercise that he's been doing at least over the past decade.
06:19He does it so that he can also get a feel of what people need to speak with him.
06:22And there is a bridge of sorts between what the central government is thinking and about what these MPs are thinking.
06:28And it's not just BJP MPs.
06:30The larger NDA, all those MPs are there.
06:33Prime Minister will be speaking with them and also asking them what are the things that they think need to be done.
06:39So, an overall picture, that is something that will be spoken about.
06:43The Prime Minister will also be speaking about the fact that we all together, the NDA group together,
06:48now needs to march forward and make sure that we are on the path.
06:51And if there are some kind of suggestions, that's also something that Prime Minister will be taking
06:55from each and every member present for this very crucial dinner.
06:58Alright, thanks very much, Aishwarya, for joining us with those details.
07:016.30 is when that dinner kicks off.
07:04NDA MPs all seated in buses will be making their way into the Prime Minister's residence any time now.
07:10Like Aishwarya was pointing out, this is customary for the Prime Minister.
07:13But let's also be very clear, on the agenda will be a discussion of what happens now in 2026.
07:19This is a year-ender dinner that we're talking about.
07:22So, the mission, the roadmap for 2026 will be laid out.
07:25And at that point, the focus will be on the upcoming state elections.
07:29Bengal, Tamil Nadu, in particular for the BJP.
07:32Bengal, Tamil Nadu, in particular for the BJP.
08:02Bengal, Tamil Nadu, in particular for the BJP.
08:08Bengal, Tamil Nadu, in particular for the BJP.
08:10Bengal, Tamil Nadu, in particular for the BJP.
08:19Bengal, Tamil Nadu, in particular for the BJP.
08:23So, после of that, if you are pública,
08:28So Bihar's place is also in Bengal and Tamil Nadu.
08:33This is a result of 140 million people's death.
08:43We say that the people are death.
08:47So the people's death is a result of the death.
08:53and those people violins the way the eternal
09:07people see the smoke
09:09let's get you the latest update coming
09:11in in the goa case
09:13and the trouble that's mounting for
09:15the owners the lutra brothers who tried to
09:17flee to thailand end game for
09:19them they've been nabbed, detained there going to be
09:21brought back to india they attempted to seek
09:22anticipatory bail to ensure that the moment they touched on in India, they cannot be taken into
09:27custody. The Delhi court, however, has dismissed the bail plea. We have now accessed that court
09:32order extremely scathing because the Delhi court has said that the charges against the Luthras
09:37are grave, are serious. The Delhi court also going ahead and highlighting that they believe there
09:44are several details that have been concealed by the Luthra brothers in court. So these are the
09:50details that we're picking up. Extremely strong order that's come in right now from the Delhi
09:55court saying allegations against the Luthra brothers are grave and serious. The court says
10:00documents filed by them shows that the license agreement, the trade license, the lease deed,
10:05all of it had expired. So the Luthra brothers were actually functioning this and running this club
10:11without any of the authorizations. All the licenses, all the agreements, the deeds that were needed,
10:15all expired. That's what the court has highlighted here. The court has also questioned the conduct
10:21of the Luthra brothers saying that the bookings of the flight was done on the same day when the fire
10:26occurred. They left Goa the same night. We had highlighted, in fact, for you how, in fact,
10:32within five hours of that fire, the Luthra brothers made a run for it. And that's exactly what the court
10:38has also taken note of. I'll bring in Srishti Oja, who's been tracking those updates from the court.
10:43Srishti, big, big headlines emerging, really, from that court order. The Delhi court not mincing
10:48their words, saying the Luthra brothers had, in fact, concealed facts, saying the allegations
10:54against them are grave and serious.
10:58Well, definitely, it's a very important order, but a big setback for the Luthra brothers at the
11:03same time. I see the order copy within that today is exclusively accessed. Even the court has taken
11:07note of the allegations that have been made against them, saying that the allegations are grave and
11:12serious. The court has also questioned and taken into note the conduct of the Luthra brothers.
11:16And these two were very important grounds on basis of which the court has dismissed their
11:20anti-patrival plea. However, an important thing to note here is that the court has said,
11:27remember, there were certain arguments made on behalf of Luthra brothers stating that all their
11:33licenses and permissions are already in place. But now the court has made a very important note
11:38stating that based on the documents that they filed with their own application,
11:42it basically goes against their arguments because those documents clearly show that the licenses,
11:48the copies that they attached were all expired. Exactly what the court has said here is that
11:53the license agreement, trade license and lease deed, all three of these documents were already,
11:59all these three deeds and licenses were already expired. So this is a big observation that has come
12:05and from the court because it in a way supports what the Goa police, what the prosecution has been
12:10alleging since the beginning that the Luthra brothers did not have the requisite licenses and
12:16permissions that they required to run that particular restaurant, that particular hotel.
12:21The court also highlighting in that particular order, Srishti, how the flight bookings were done
12:27right after the tragedy. So it wasn't like they were going out for work to Phuket. It was very clear
12:33they were trying to escape the law. Thanks very much, Srishti, for getting us those details.
12:39Let's move on now to our top story here on Super 6. The lamp lighting ceremony,
12:44Kartikai Deepam celebrations in Tamil Nadu has spiraled into one of the most heated controversies in the
12:49state and which is months to go for the election. Now the showdown over the Tiruparang Kundram
12:54lighting of the Deepam has drawn sharp political, judicial and ideological reactions from parliament to now,
13:01the RSS headquarters. RSS chief Moham Bhagwat has also stepped in, having in fact an opinion on this.
13:08He has said that the Hindus of the state will decide on this issue, will decide which way this goes.
13:19A lamp lit at a temple adjoining a darga in Tamil Nadu after massive showdown and the judge who
13:25allowed the lighting of Deepam under political fire. Amid political slug-fist over Kartikai Deepam on the
13:32stone pillar at Tiruparang Kundram temple, the Rashti Svamsevak Sangh has waded into the controversy.
13:40RSS chief Moham Bhagwat has asserted that Tiruparang Kundram issue in Tamil Nadu can be resolved in the state itself
13:47on the basis of the Hindu's strength. He also said that Hindus in Tamil Nadu are awakening.
13:54I think issue can be resolved here only on basis of the Hindu's strength in Tamil Nadu only.
14:04We will not need to escalate it. But one thing is pakka, that issue will be resolved
14:13favourably for Hindus. That is definite. Whatever it takes for that, we will do.
14:21I rise to condemn the unconstitutional...
14:25BJP MP Tejasvi Surya has also raised the Tamil Nadu Deepam Rao in parliament today.
14:30This is an attack against the judiciary of the country. It is an attack on the impartiality of
14:37the judges. The DMK government supported by the India Alliance and the Congress is trying to
14:43weaponise impeachment as a method to silence the judiciary. This not only shows their anti-Hindu
14:52sentiments, but it also displays their contempt for the independence of the judiciary.
14:58Earlier, Home Minister Shah came down heavily on DMK over the impeachment motion against
15:06Justice Jiyaswaminathan asking if targeting the judge is okay after losing a case.
15:11The opposition has upped the ante against BJP over the issue.
15:34See, we have given impeachment notice based on 13 charges against Justice Jiyaswaminathan
15:41signed by 107 MPs of Lok Sabha. And these 13 charges against him are not new. It is not
15:48related to anything of the recent happening like Tirpurangondam or any other temple or any
15:53other issue.
15:53DMK has been pushing for impeachment of the Deepam case judge, saying his verdict was biased. With
16:09assembly post due next year, it looks like the temple versus Dargav war will continue to
16:25escalate. With Pramod Madhav, Beru Report, India Today.
16:30And in what's expected to escalate the showdown over Tiruparang Kundram, the Madhuri bench of the
16:41Madras High Court has now granted permission for a hunger strike to be held in two days from now on
16:4713th December by villagers of Tiruparang Kundram who sought permission to light that lamp on the
16:53Deepatun and they weren't given that. Now, after that, they've sought permission to stage a
16:57protest two days from now in Tiruparang Kundram, which has been granted by the Madhuri bench of
17:02the Madras High Court. Anagar Keshav is joining us live from Chennai with more details on this.
17:06Anagar, this is going to further escalate the political showdown that we've been witnessing.
17:11We understand the court has given its nod, but with certain terms and conditions.
17:14Well, in fact, the Tamil Nadu government had not given permission for the Hindu side to light a lamp
17:24at the Deepatun, which is near the Dargav. And therefore, the public in Tiruparang Kundram have
17:29now decided to stage a hunger strike two days from now, that is on December 13th at the hilltop near
17:35Tiruparang Kundram. Their demand is that they should be allowed to light a lamp near the Deepatun,
17:40which is just 50 meters away from the Dargav. The Hindu side believes that their rights are being
17:45impinged upon by the DMK and Tamil Nadu government. And hence, they are undertaking this strike. In
17:52fact, many members from the public, apart from the Hindu Munnani group, are also taking part in this
17:56particular hunger strike protest, which is going to take place the day after tomorrow against the
18:02Tamil Nadu government.
18:04For those details, you're going to see this issue escalate now. Two days from now, there are going to be
18:09protests. What Anagar tells us is that, yes, there are locals, but also Hindu groups involved
18:14in this hunger strike protest that's going to take place in Tiruparang Kundram, which is where this
18:19temple is, which is where the Dargav is, which is where the Deepatun is, where in fact, they wanted
18:24to light that lamp on Kartikai Deepam.
18:29But let's open this up. Joining us on this broadcast is Mr. Ratan Sharda, author and analyst. We have
18:35Dhani Dharan spokesperson of the Dravidar Munnetra Karagam and Guru Prakash Paswan, national
18:40spokesperson of the BJP. Good evening, gentlemen. Thank you all very much for your time. Mr.
18:44Ratan Sharda, I'd like to begin with you about the RSS chief's comments. How do we read into it? Is this an
18:50escalation of the controversy over the Deepam or a call for restraint?
18:57Well, first of all, what RSS chief has said is not something different what Hindu society has done
19:02so far to assert its rights. Many of us don't remember because they are too young for that.
19:08That years back, DK used to take out processions where Hindu gods were beaten with chappals and they
19:14were not allowed to take out Vinayaka processions. Hindus protested, Hindus stood up, Hindu Munanir
19:20led the whole movement and now Chennai had one of the biggest Vinayaka, the Sarjan, you know,
19:28processions in entire India. That is the strength of the society. And is it happening for the first
19:33time? No. Like I said, the Hindus protested one. There is also a case of Nilakkal church way back
19:39in 1983 when the local church planted crosses all over the place on way to Sabarimala and Hindus
19:47protested finally there to remove those fake crosses to make the journey of Hindus easier. We also remember
19:55that we have a strange secular animal in India which was a crossbreed of Western ideology and the church
20:03made by Nehru. So we had an animal which by genetic thinking hates Hindus, criticizes the Hindus at the
20:10drop of a hat. Did RSS start this Deepam process? This Deepam procession and this Deepam are centuries old
20:18and this is not just happening here. Way back the church opposed that procession from the famous
20:25temple where they said they will not be allowed to go to the pond because that church falls on the
20:30way. Church came into 500 or 600 years back to that area but the Hindus were celebrating for thousands
20:38of years. So they had to go to court. Then you had Muslims opposing a procession in the same
20:43Gumbakonam because we are disturbed. High court again said they cannot know why in India Hindus have to go to
20:49court to celebrate their festivals. If you look at what's happened here in Tirupara Kundra, it's not
20:56like Kartikai Deepam hasn't been celebrated. Sir, it has been celebrated year after year. The location
21:01has changed in the last hundred years. You know, from the Deepatun, it's become another location which is the
21:05Uchi Pillayar temple. So, you know, is it fair to actually say that Kartikai Deepam festivities in
21:10any way were stopped? In this case, it wasn't. It was allowed. The government didn't stop it. Despite high court order,
21:16didn't government stop it? It did. And why I am saying that ancient religion which is there for
21:21thousands of years should have to beg for its festivals, for its celebrations from some community
21:27which we propped up there, created some kind of place of worship there and we have to bow for those
21:33people to celebrate our festivals? Are we still the slaves? We fought Mughal invaders, we fought church
21:38invaders and today they think they will be able to crush us? Sorry, they can't. And Hindus will
21:44awaken, they will respond whether RSS says or not. RSS given that strength to the Hindus to
21:49realize that they have the strength, they have the cultural traditions and which they
21:53have pride of, proud of. And here we are people who keep on running down Hindus, running down
21:58traditions. Sabarimala, we forget Sabarimala, we forget Dharamsthala, entire fake story which
22:03and you went on broadcasting without realizing what was going on there, a fake story. So this is the
22:09story that Hindus have been prevented from doing what is their natural right.
22:15I will highlight Mr. Shardar that as far as Dharamsthala goes, even when what's emerged
22:19from the SIT details that came out yesterday, we've covered that too. So every side as far
22:23as Dharamsthala goes was put out. But Dharani Dharan, your opening remarks before I bring in
22:28Guru Prakash Paswan, your opening remarks of what the RSS chief has said, that Hindus in the state
22:32will decide what goes down in Tiruparang Kundram and what happens next.
22:35Exactly the point. The point is that neither the RSS, neither the BJP, neither Ratan Sarada
22:42represent the Hindus. This Deepam being lit in Uchi Pillaya Temple has been happening for
22:49more than 200 years, even before any political party in India emerged. In fact, there are
22:54archeological evidence that it was happening even before 2000 years. And this temple is
22:58a cave temple. So the Uchi Pillaya Deepam is also an elevated height and that is why this
23:02practice was followed. Now, hundreds of years ago, it was a deeper tone, Dharani Dharan.
23:09It was a deeper tone, but before that, it was happening in Uchi Pillaya Temple. There are
23:13some Aakilaj evidence saying it. There could be some contradictory evidence to it. But there
23:17is also an evidence that 1000 years back it was happening there and there's a reason. But
23:22here, are the Hindus of Tamil Nadu, the people who go into the temple having a problem with it?
23:28Or the Muslims are having a problem with it? No. It is a political, certain political elements
23:33want to create political disarming, religious disarming. No, but was, did they have a problem
23:39with Deepatun also? They didn't have a problem. They didn't have a problem with the Deepatun
23:43being lit either. See, 2096 verdict, 2014 verdict, 2017 verdict, clearly said the temple administration
23:51will decide. The point is that the Deepam has been lit. But at Uchi Pillaya Temple, like
23:54it has been 200 years. Even the BJADMK, it's an alliance with BJP. What are two senior leaders
24:00of the ADMK party saying? One is Jaykumar and second is Minister Selur Rajiv from Madurai.
24:07They both said, the customary practice that has been followed for the last 200 years should
24:12be continued. They are on record saying it. So BJP was so much interested in this matter.
24:18Then they can cut off the ties with ADMK.
24:21Guru Prakash Paswan.
24:22Guru Prakash Paswan.
24:23I'll tell the ADMK to implement these two people. That's a first point. So this you have
24:25to understand. Now, this issue has been given light by BJP because there is election.
24:31Okay. Is this a manufactured controversy? Guru Prakash Paswan. I'll come back to you, Dhani
24:35Dhani. Let's bring in the BJP on this as well. Guru Prakash Paswan, is this a manufactured
24:40controversy?
24:44No, Akshita, this is clearly beyond my comprehension. If we do an SIR, this is with respect to elections
24:49in Bihar. If we do an SIR, this is with respect to elections in Bengal. If there is a controversy
24:54which has been engineered and initiated by the DMK government, we have to understand that
24:59there is a judicial process. Look at the history of the judiciary. Not once in the entire history
25:06a judge has been impeached. So obviously, the DMK is not foolish enough to realize that
25:11the impeachment will actually happen. There is a deeper malays here, Akshita, that we need
25:15to understand. There is a political messaging to a community. There is a politics of minority
25:21appeasement which is on the surface of Tamil Nadu politics as of now. Today, as we bow our
25:27heads to Mahakawi Subramaniam Bharti, today, the controversy that has been engineered by the
25:33DMK and all the political parties. This is clearly beyond my comprehension. There is a place,
25:38there is a tradition, and there is a culture. What the RSS chief has suggested is nothing but
25:44cultural and civilizational. What we have to understand that in the quest of minority appeasement,
25:49and this is not the first time. Let me correct my friend from the DMK or the entire India
25:54Alliance leadership. This is a classic case. This is a classic example of minority appeasement.
25:59So you have gone to this sake. 26th November, only 15 days ago, we celebrated Constitution Day. Only a week ago,
26:07we celebrated 6th of December, which is the death anniversary of Dr. Ambedkar. Today is the JNT of
26:13Mahakawi Subramaniam Bharti. So on this day, on such an auspicious occasion, when the elections are happening,
26:19when the elections are due, DMK is consciously engineering this political program of political appeasement,
26:26minority appeasement in particular. We have had prime ministers in this country who have said,
26:31and I quote, publicly, that the first right over the resources of the country belongs to minorities,
26:37and it's particularly Muslim minorities. So this is nothing but a classic case of minority appeasement.
26:43But we have to understand, Tamil Nadu is a place of civilization. Tamil Nadu is the cultural fulcrum
26:49of our entire civilization. But the politics of DMK has ended up exposing the selective anti-Hindu approach
26:57of DMK. The history of DMK is, if you go through the history, there are so many examples, so many.
27:04You, don't you remember the, just 10 seconds, I'll finish my, I did not interfere when anyone else was speaking.
27:10You would remember, Akshita, only last conference was said, eradication of Sanatana Dharma.
27:16Eradication of Sanatana Dharma. So people who aspire to eradicate Sanatana Dharma, these are just the next steps.
27:23These are just the follow-up steps that you would also not hesitate to bring impeachment proceeding.
27:28Knowing very well, DMK has a very good team of legal experts. Akshita, let me make this very clear.
27:34My friend is there. There is a lot of, there is a battery of lawyers. They are very well understand
27:38that the impeachment is not going to take place. Then what is the purpose?
27:41No, it's about messaging. It's about messaging very clearly.
27:43The sole purpose is minority appeasement.
27:44But let me, let me, let me get the DMK in to respond to what you said of minority appeasement politics at play here.
27:49Dharidharan, your response.
27:51I want to answer two things. First of all, the first impeachment of a judge in independent India was launched by the BJP party in 91.
27:59And of course, BJP has been involved in at least four to five such attempts.
28:03And in a democracy, we need to have checks and balances in play.
28:07The judiciary should keep a check on the executor and the legislator.
28:09The legislator should keep a check on the judiciary. There is nothing wrong.
28:12So when it comes to minority appeasement, there is no minority appeasement in Tamil Nadu simply because people in Tamil Nadu are not discriminated based on religion.
28:20You grew up in Tamil Nadu. You are from Tamil Nadu. You know it.
28:22So that, which is why BJP is failing Muslim in Tamil Nadu single-digit voucher if they don't have an alliance partner.
28:27Simply because such religious discrimination does, has no place in Tamil Nadu.
28:32The whole point is, even the Hindus I meet and talk, people are saying, this has been going on for 200 years, now why isn't controversy created by the BJP?
28:42This is what they are talking about, right?
28:44Okay.
28:45And even in 1967, DMK came to power for the first time, right?
28:48But 90% of Tamil Nadu then and today's Hindus, they voted for us.
28:52DMK got 29, 50% no share, which means at least 45% of those who voted for us are Hindus.
28:58So because DMK is not against any religion, we are only against discrimination for any religion or bringing spirituality into politics.
29:07Okay. Darnidharan raises a point here.
29:09And before I bring in Mr. Ratan Sharda, Guru Prakash, I'm going to give you a chance to respond to that.
29:13That look, electorally, if any community was being targeted, it would reflect in their performance.
29:19The DMK is saying, look at our performance, look at our track record.
29:22Akshita, if vote share gives you legitimacy to do anything, then the Bharti Jinta Party can do anything.
29:32What a preposterous argument is this.
29:34And I'm sorry, I don't agree with this position that if you are getting a substantial vote share, you gain a legitimacy to do any unconstitutional thing.
29:41And as far as the footprints of the Bharti Jinta Party is concerned, let me remind my friend from the DMK, for the first time in the history of our country, we have a Tamil finance minister, we have a Tamil foreign minister, we have had Jana Krishnamurti who has led the Bharti Jinta Party in the past.
29:56So, we don't need any certificate with respect to having footprints of the Bharti Jinta Party in Tamil Nadu. Point number one. Point number two, he was talking about secularism.
30:04What is true secularism? What is true secularism according to you? Treating, will you do the same thing if there is a Christian celebration in schools? You will not.
30:14Will you do the same thing if there is a Eid Milak procession? You will not. You have to agree that your definition of secularism ends with Hindus.
30:22All the traditional and civilisation and cultural practices of Hindus would be looked by the lens of secularism, but all the Christian procession, all the Eid Milak procession, you will not look.
30:31So, this clear cut sufficiently establishes the case of minority appeasement which we have been suggesting. Historically, politically, culturally and civilisationally, Tamil Nadu has been the epicentre and the fulcrum of our civilisation.
30:44What the DMK is right now doing is nothing but indulging in the politics of minority appeasement and they will go to this extent as well to initiate an impeachment process just for the sake of vote bank.
30:56This is a classic and a clear cut case of vote bank politics and minority appeasement period and such.
31:01You raised the issue of minority appeasement and Darlita and I see your hand up but just give me a moment. I will bring in Mr. Ratan Sharda and then bring you in.
31:06Mr. Ratan Sharda, you know, we have heard this reference to minority appeasement at the DMK.
31:11There has been talk of discrimination which you said sir, between religions say in the state of Tamil Nadu.
31:16There is often a question that is brought up with reference to Tamil Nadu that look, is religious discrimination really an issue or is the bigger issue caste discrimination?
31:25Because you also see it electorally. The question that is constantly asked to me as someone from Tamil Nadu is if the Dravidian parties are anti-Hindu, why do Hindus still vote for them?
31:34And the answer always comes from Tamil Nadu is that there is no religious discrimination, that's why.
31:40Well, Hindus did vote for Congress and these people all over India for nearly 60 years before they woke up.
31:47It's just the time before Hindus wake up. As I said, many times they refuted all these false claims and please keep the pen down, it's very bad of it.
31:55So, first of all, let me refute his criticism. He says the BJP in 1990 when impeached the judge, the judge was Mr. R. Ramaswamy.
32:02His conduct was found poor in Punjab in the High Court. He was found guilty. And we have Justice Verma promoted by the same collegium where no opposition speaks.
32:13But they can impeach the judge for giving Deepam judgment, now putting 13 more charges against him.
32:21But basically, the day he gets the judgment, immediately impeachment comes. Will they dare impeach him?
32:26Please keep the pen down. It is distracting. Please ask him to keep the pen down. Behave yourself.
32:31And when you look at what the judge's behavior is, emergency, straight away, emergency is the mindset. Justice Lalitos never gave a promotion. Justice Jagmohan was removed from the entire list of promotions.
32:44Where Supreme Court judges superseded. And today they're impeaching the judge because they have pain that he has given a judgment which favors Hindus.
32:54So this, I am not saying impeachment, minority, pro-minority, anti-Hindu, definitely. But that is the pain. And today or tomorrow, Hindus will realize.
33:02It is the problem with BJP. They could not transfer the thinking or, you know, imbibe the thinking. Why DMK is anti?
33:08Their entire Aryan-Dravian theory is fake. These people sided with British. These people said, created anti-Brahmin thinking, saying that they're Aryans.
33:17They said with Dravid Aryan, different races, that he has been disproved. But still they carry on the same agenda. And those small 6% Brahmins or 2% Brahmins have made scapegoats.
33:27They are leaving state. And they are claiming that they're doing social justice on fake theories. I'm sorry, this will not run for a long time.
33:33India has awoken, Tamil Nadu will also awaken. It's just a question of time. And Hindus have a very long memory.
33:39Please try to understand this continue. Same government here, Tamil Nadu, whether Jaya, I don't matter, Jaya, whichever it is.
33:47It is a mindset that doesn't get trivialized. That is the problem. And that is why we are here arguing this case.
33:53And judges, you when impeached, judges for giving judgment doesn't suit you. Don't talk of constitution after that.
33:58Don't talk of independent judiciary, because you are the one who wants slave judges.
34:03Okay, you've made an interesting point. Dhanidharan, your response.
34:07The point is that there's an actual load tolerance because my pencil pops up because I have to make notes.
34:12This load tolerance is a problem with people on the right side of the ideology.
34:16Who is he to determine what is a bad habit or not? He pops up because...
34:20He points checking. He points checking.
34:22He points checking. I have to stop doing this continuously.
34:24Based on their perception is actually the problem why we are against the RSS and the BJP.
34:30Which is low tolerance. That's why Tamil Nadu is against.
34:32To the BJP spokesperson, I should tell him, please come to Tamil Nadu and see how we all live in harmony.
34:37People in Tamil Nadu, when we grew up, or most people here, do not discriminate who's a Muslim, who's a Christian.
34:41They're all inhabitants of Tamil Nadu. They're Tamils. That is what is important.
34:44To discriminate and say, oh, this was... In fact, Muslims celebrate Hindu festivals and Hindus celebrate Muslims and Christian festivals in Tamil Nadu.
34:52That's how we grew up. I think that's how Ashita also grew up. No one can deny that.
34:56And first, please understand, if you don't believe it, come stay. In Chennai, you'll be able to see it.
35:00So please do not discriminate based on religion. Here it is not about Hinduism. It's about customary practice.
35:05It is about customary practice of 200 years.
35:08Okay.
35:09And to continue that. It is about cultural practice of that temple.
35:12No, but the question that constantly comes up, Dhani Dharan, is if it was about the practice, if it was about the practice, and a court verdict came, saying light to the Deepa Tune, why wasn't it done?
35:21I mean, if there's no, if there's no, if there's no communal disharmony, if there are no differences, why wasn't it just lit?
35:27But who will decide why the Deepa must be? I mean, 200 years cultural practice, even before Justice Party came into effect, it has been lit in Uchi Pillaya Temple.
35:36Now, this-
35:37100 years ago. So 100 years ago, it was lit at the Deepa Tune. So you can say revival of that.
35:41Even in 1900-1900, this was lit there. Now, my question is, who will decide that temple administration, people go worship there?
35:49An individual who has nothing to do with any of that has filed the case. But this is a cultural practice here. How is following a cultural practice?
35:56Do you think this is a unified cultural practice across temples in India? No. Each temple is different. In some temples, we also sacrifice God. Right? So Hinduism is not a monotheistic religion.
36:06So are you suggesting, are you suggesting that it's not tradition to light it at the Deepa Tune? Is that the suggestion of the DMK here?
36:12Are you saying that it was against tradition, the courts?
36:15Or Mr. Ratan Sharda to decide which temple should follow what customs?
36:19Okay. Okay. Guru Prakash, your response.
36:21Who are there to say? Or for Mohan Bhawad to say? Or for any BJP politician say? It is the worship of the temple and the temple.
36:27Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Guru Prakash, go ahead.
36:29Akshita, is it my turn?
36:31Yes. Yes. Go ahead.
36:32Thank you so much. Akshita, you raised a very valid question.
36:37And in fact, about religious discrimination and caste-based discrimination.
36:43I would like to quote a statement of DMK-LE, VCK's S. Ravi Kumar.
36:49So Mr. Ravi Kumar is a member of parliament and a DMK ally.
36:53Okay. So he has highlighted about the 2023 SC Commission report, which mentions categorically about the highest number of atrocities against Dalits in Tamil Nadu when compared to other southern states.
37:07So this entire narrative of social justice, what my friend was just saying that the justice brigade see, we understand the compulsions of the DMK here.
37:15There are certain things that you do for rhetoric. There are certain things you do for messaging. And then there is fact. Then there is reality. And then there is rhetoric.
37:23So as far as social justice is also concerned, I challenge my friend. I challenge on the live television, you give me five leaders from Dalit community who the DMK have empowered over the years. The answer is none.
37:37Let's, let's, no, I'm going to interrupt. Just because you've asked that direct question, let's get a direct answer from Danitar and all that.
37:44No, no, I don't answer. I won't answer this.
37:46No, direct, direct answer. Let's get direct answer. Five names.
37:48I won't answer this. I won't answer this. I answer this.
37:50First, one in four Dalit entrepreneurs in India, 25%, they live in Tamil Nadu.
37:55One in four Dalit entrepreneurs in India live in Tamil Nadu.
37:58No, five names. Danitar and five names.
38:01See, I will answer this. One in four Dalit entrepreneurs in India live in Tamil Nadu.
38:06Per-capital GDP of Dalit in Tamil Nadu is ten times higher than Dalits in Bihar.
38:10The number of crimes against Dalits in Tamil Nadu is ten times lower than this home state of Bihar.
38:14Dude, I don't want to, dude, dude. Your ally, Ravi Kumar has said, I'm not saying.
38:19Dalits rights in Bihar very, very bad. Bihar, Lutra Padesh, Dalits rights.
38:23Your own minister's son has gone and attacked Dalit farmers.
38:27Okay, I'm going to. Dalits are not allowed to enter tempers in Lutra Padesh and Bihar.
38:31Okay, okay. Dalits are not allowed to enter.
38:33One in four Dalit entrepreneurs.
38:35So quickly, you know, I don't want to move on to other subjects.
38:38I have to wrap this up. So quickly, closing comments from each of you.
38:40I'm worried about the...
38:41I'll come to you. Darnitar and I'll come to you last since I'll...
38:43That per capita GDP is ten times lower.
38:45Okay, we'll talk about what's happening right now in Tiruparang Kundram.
38:48I'll begin with Mr. Ratan Sharada, your closing comments, sir.
38:50Darnitar and hold on, please.
38:52Closing comments from Ratan Sharada first.
38:54Mr. Bharatan doesn't know that just in 2024, there was a conflict between the Dalit Christians and high caste Christians in Kumbakonam regarding a procession where Dalit Christians are not allowed entry.
39:09That is the casteism in Tamil Nadu. So it is a deep-rooted casteism, which even Guru Prakash pointed out.
39:15Secondly, it is not that you have done something. Tamil Nadu had highest percentage of obesity and SCST even during Guru Kula days.
39:22In the 18th century, as recorded by British.
39:2470% of the people in the Guru Kulams were SCST and obesity of today.
39:29That is the wealth on which you're sitting.
39:31You did nothing great. You tried to bring everybody down to your level where everybody hated each other.
39:36This is the culture of Tamil Nadu, which you could not destroy. I'm sorry to tell you.
39:40Okay, Guru Prakash, your closing comments before I bring in Darnitar.
39:43Darnitar, I'll give you the last word. I'll give you the last word so you get a chance to respond to both. Guru Prakash.
39:49Why is he getting desperate?
39:52Akshita, let us have a calm debate.
39:54Hold on. Darnitar, come on. Hold on. I'll give you a chance.
39:57I asked a simple question to my friend to name five Dalit leaders.
40:06Go ahead. Guru Prakash, go ahead. Go ahead. We've ensured. You're two minutes.
40:12We have to understand. I asked a simple question. Akshita, I asked a simple question to my friend from the DMK.
40:20Give me five names, Dalit leaders from the DMK who have been leaders of consequence, the leadership that you have cultivated.
40:28He gave zero names. He gave absolutely zero names because like DMK, the point which I was trying to finish in my last segment, DMK is like Samajwadi Party.
40:37DMK is like the Rashti Janta Dal. It is a family based dynasty entitled privilege enterprise that we have to understand.
40:45On what basis do you claim DMK as a social justice revolutionary organization like this? I don't understand.
40:51I asked for five names. I give you a discount. You give me two names.
40:55And the fact of the matter is that travesty is that the DMK will leader.
41:00Okay. Okay. I'm running out of time.
41:02To give two names as well.
41:04Okay. I'm running out of time. Dalit and closing comments, please.
41:07You give two names. You first give two names.
41:09I am giving you.
41:11I don't want to get. Please, gentlemen, please avoid an argument. Please avoid.
41:15Please avoid an argument.
41:17Please avoid an argument.
41:19Please avoid an argument. Darni Dharan, your closing comments.
41:23Please don't resort to an argument. I won't be able to give you time for your closing comments then. Please go ahead.
41:31Two names.
41:32Darni Dharan, your closing comments.
41:34I am, who is, who is, why should I answer? Why is, why is, what has BJP done for Dalit?
41:38Just tell him two things. What BJP has done for Dalit?
41:41What has BJP done for Dalit?
41:43The most anti-Dalit party in the country is BJP.
41:45No, no. Just hold on.
41:46I am going to, I am going, I am wrapping this up now.
41:49No, gentlemen, I am sorry. I am going to wrap this up now. I am going to wrap this up. I don't have time.
41:54Thank you very much. Thank you very much for joining me.
41:57My apologies, Dharan. I tried to get your closing comments, but we have run out of time.
42:01And we saw, of course, it's also gone in. And this is one of the heated issues of Tamil Nadu.
42:06Of not just religion, but also of alleged caste discrimination, which is what you saw in that particular panel as well.
42:12The DMK is pushing for a Bharat Ratna for former Chief Minister Kalainir Karunanadi.
42:23They made an official pitch for the same in Parliament with a MP, Tamirachi Tangapandyan, seeking a Bharat Ratna for Karunanadi.
42:30The request has been put forth. Not the first time the DMK has made this request, saying,
42:35Honour Kalainir Karunanadi and his political legacy.
42:38Now you've had a DMK MP pushing for the same in Parliament as well.
42:42We'll see what really comes of it.
42:44But this is the news break that's coming in as the DMK now ahead of elections, mind you, is pushing for the honour for Kalainir Karunanadi.
42:52You've had some questions.
42:54I've had a few questions and a few questions.
42:56You should be able to subscribe.
42:58You've got a lot of questions.
43:00I'll have a few questions you have in the comments.
43:02This is why I restarted.
43:04I'm not good at the end of the session.
43:06But I made a few questions.
43:08I want to leave the opportunity to make a few questions.
43:11You can see the instructions.
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