- 1 day ago
John and Chino explore how the “little gods” doctrine emerged, evolved, and spread through Pentecostal, Latter Rain, Word of Faith, and modern charismatic movements. They trace the development of these ideas from William Branham’s distorted view of Christ as a “thought expressed,” through Hobart Freeman’s charismatic reinterpretations, and into the broader landscape of dominionism and modern spiritual power claims. Along the way, they highlight how proof-texting, misused Greek terms, and theological shortcuts created a framework that encouraged believers to see themselves as small deities capable of commanding reality, weather, sickness, and even God Himself.
The discussion also exposes the psychological and spiritual consequences of this theology—how it fostered hierarchies of “manifested sons,” opened the door to manipulative ministry culture, and blurred the line between biblical faith and occult-like practices. John and Chino connect these historical teachings to current religious-political movements, examining how ideas about dominion, authority, and spiritual control continue to shape contemporary charismatic expressions. This episode gives listeners a clear historical roadmap of how these ideas took root and why they still matter today.
00:00 – Introduction
01:05 – How “Little Gods” Theology Connects Across Movements
02:00 – Branham’s Early Christology and the “Thought Expressed” Doctrine
03:48 – Hobart Freeman’s Version of the Little Gods Teaching
05:12 – Misuse of Scripture: John 10:34, Philippians 2, and Kenotic Themes
10:12 – Why Freeman Claimed Jesus Worked Miracles Only as a Man
11:35 – Clip: “Increasing Our Faith” and Its Implications
16:18 – The Link to Dominionism and Political Spirituality
17:03 – Branham’s Manifested Sons of God Framework
19:32 – Hierarchy of “Little Gods” and Leader Self-Exaltation
22:00 – Word of Faith Expansion: Hagin, Copeland, and Kenyon
25:33 – Faith as a Force and the Sorcery Parallels
29:01 – How the Doctrine Spread After Branham’s Death
33:40 – Dominionism Explained: Reclaiming Adam’s Lost Authority
37:13 – Clip: “Recovering Our Dominion and Rights” (Prosperity + Commanding Satan)
42:31 – “Decree and Command” Theology (Job 22:28 / Isaiah 45:11)
49:13 – Sunship Faith: Freeman’s Claimed Prophetic Sermon Dictations
50:03 – Weather Control Teachings and Storm-Demon Theology
55:07 – Scriptural Contradictions: Paul, Jonah, and Psalm 29
59:10 – Weather Authority as Product of Little Gods Theology
1:00:29 – Branham’s “Why Cry? Speak!” and the Spoken Word Framework
1:02:03 – Final Reflections on the Doctrine’s Logic and Failures
______________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
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The discussion also exposes the psychological and spiritual consequences of this theology—how it fostered hierarchies of “manifested sons,” opened the door to manipulative ministry culture, and blurred the line between biblical faith and occult-like practices. John and Chino connect these historical teachings to current religious-political movements, examining how ideas about dominion, authority, and spiritual control continue to shape contemporary charismatic expressions. This episode gives listeners a clear historical roadmap of how these ideas took root and why they still matter today.
00:00 – Introduction
01:05 – How “Little Gods” Theology Connects Across Movements
02:00 – Branham’s Early Christology and the “Thought Expressed” Doctrine
03:48 – Hobart Freeman’s Version of the Little Gods Teaching
05:12 – Misuse of Scripture: John 10:34, Philippians 2, and Kenotic Themes
10:12 – Why Freeman Claimed Jesus Worked Miracles Only as a Man
11:35 – Clip: “Increasing Our Faith” and Its Implications
16:18 – The Link to Dominionism and Political Spirituality
17:03 – Branham’s Manifested Sons of God Framework
19:32 – Hierarchy of “Little Gods” and Leader Self-Exaltation
22:00 – Word of Faith Expansion: Hagin, Copeland, and Kenyon
25:33 – Faith as a Force and the Sorcery Parallels
29:01 – How the Doctrine Spread After Branham’s Death
33:40 – Dominionism Explained: Reclaiming Adam’s Lost Authority
37:13 – Clip: “Recovering Our Dominion and Rights” (Prosperity + Commanding Satan)
42:31 – “Decree and Command” Theology (Job 22:28 / Isaiah 45:11)
49:13 – Sunship Faith: Freeman’s Claimed Prophetic Sermon Dictations
50:03 – Weather Control Teachings and Storm-Demon Theology
55:07 – Scriptural Contradictions: Paul, Jonah, and Psalm 29
59:10 – Weather Authority as Product of Little Gods Theology
1:00:29 – Branham’s “Why Cry? Speak!” and the Spoken Word Framework
1:02:03 – Final Reflections on the Doctrine’s Logic and Failures
______________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– F
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LearningTranscript
00:00:30Hello, and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast.
00:00:36I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research
00:00:40at william-branham.org, and with me I have my co-host and friend, Chino Ross, pastor and
00:00:47the voice of the understanding scripture and truth by Chino D. Ross YouTube channel.
00:00:52Chino, I am a little bit excited about today's episode.
00:00:56We talked briefly about what it was.
00:00:58This is the first that I'd heard what you were going to talk about today, and you don't
00:01:03know this, but interestingly, what you're talking about right now is exactly a theme that we're
00:01:09going through with John McKinnon, and he does the series on weaponized religion, which is
00:01:16a lot of William Branham history.
00:01:17But it's also tying into themes that I'm researching for parts of what will be my next book.
00:01:25We're talking about the little gods idea, and it ties into so many things that we've talked
00:01:31about.
00:01:31It ties to the manifested sons of God.
00:01:34It ties to the Joel's Army theme.
00:01:35It ties to the Word of Faith movement, and people see all of these different things, and
00:01:40they've attributed many of those doctrines to different individuals who had loose connections
00:01:47to latter rain, but I don't think that they went far enough to get back into its foundation.
00:01:51And when I'm saying foundation, I'm talking about the point at which they were all linked
00:01:58into one doctrine.
00:01:59You can go back to Phineas Quimby, and you can find Word of Faith.
00:02:02You can go back to different sources.
00:02:04But William Branham introduced this idea, which was so far off the mark if you're a Christian
00:02:10and understand the Bible.
00:02:12He took the text from John 1, where it says,
00:02:15In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, the Word was God.
00:02:19Well, Branham's theology, as it began to morph into spiritualism and the manifested sons of
00:02:25God, he started to say that in the beginning, Jesus was nothing more than a thought in the
00:02:31Father's mind.
00:02:33And when the Word was spoken, the thought became expressed, and the thought was manifested.
00:02:39So the human, well, actually less than a human, he claimed that Jesus had no mother, so
00:02:45it wasn't quite a human.
00:02:46This vessel, called Jesus, became a thought expressed, which was spoken word, and became
00:02:53a living God among the people.
00:02:56And he started to build upon this, and he started to bring forward what eventually would
00:03:01morph into the doctrine that you're going to talk about today.
00:03:04But I'm deep into the study of that history because I'm really interested to know what
00:03:09they were trying to do with the minds of the children and the political reasons behind
00:03:14that.
00:03:14So I have way more to say than I can fit into this one podcast, but I'm interested
00:03:19to hear what you have to say, and I'll try to contain myself.
00:03:22Well, you know, my only level of expertise in any of this really has to do with what Dr.
00:03:27Freeman's teaching and views were.
00:03:29So as I get into it, I'm always curious to hear what you have to say because I'm always
00:03:35curious how much of this came through William Branham to him.
00:03:40And I'm sure a lot of it did.
00:03:44So yeah, I said what I'd like to talk about today is, maybe for a lack of a better phrase,
00:03:50although I can think of some other ones, but I have seen this used by some of these WF,
00:03:56the Word of Faith ministers, and it is called the Little God's Theology or the Little God's
00:04:02Teaching.
00:04:03This is something Hobart definitely believed in and definitely taught.
00:04:07Well, and the verse they use, we'll just jump ahead and say it's over in John's Gospel,
00:04:13but it's in, I think, John chapter 10, where Jesus is actually talking to the religious leaders,
00:04:19arguing his case, and he quotes a passage from the book of Psalms.
00:04:24And he said, doesn't your own law or your own book say that ye are little gods?
00:04:30I think that's John 10, 34.
00:04:33So it's an unusual verse for sure.
00:04:37It's an unusual quotation of the Old Testament.
00:04:39But as I will argue for all of my life, Hobart didn't understand any of the things he talked
00:04:46about.
00:04:46He was a cherry picker.
00:04:48He was a proof texter.
00:04:49I'm sure he had heard the basis of this teaching from people that came before him.
00:04:56I'm positive of that.
00:04:58And then he just, as any second or third generation believer of something, he just refines it or
00:05:04purifies it or makes it worse and adds his own interpretations to it.
00:05:11But what this theology teaches is that, and this is what Hobart taught, and we've got several
00:05:19examples, we're going to play some clips from him today where people can hear for themselves
00:05:25what he's saying.
00:05:28He taught that Jesus did all of his miracles as a man.
00:05:34He did them as the man Jesus and not as the Son of God.
00:05:39So, in other words, this one person, Jesus Christ, who had two natures, all of historic
00:05:49Orthodox Christianity has believed that there was one divine person who had a human nature
00:05:56and a divine nature.
00:05:57The human nature came through his mother, Mary, and the divine nature came through the
00:06:04miraculous conception of him in her womb by the Holy Spirit.
00:06:08And so, these miracles and his faith and all of these incredible, outstanding things that
00:06:16Jesus did that are recorded in the Gospels sprang from his human nature and had nothing
00:06:23to do with his divine nature.
00:06:25They'll also go over to Philippians 2, the so-called Kenosis passage, where it said that
00:06:30Jesus emptied himself.
00:06:32And again, I just want to remind all of our listeners that these are difficult, heavyweight
00:06:38passages, and there are volumes and volumes which have been written on the Kenosis, K-E-N-O-S-I-S
00:06:47experience in Philippians 2.
00:06:49So, I'm fine listening to a charismatic preacher tell me what he thinks it says.
00:06:54I'm fine listening to it, but I'm highly doubtful that he's going to know what that passage is
00:06:59saying simply because theologians have worked for centuries trying to understand what's being
00:07:06said.
00:07:06What is it that we actually have in the one person of Christ who had two natures?
00:07:13The only person in history like that, one person with two natures.
00:07:18When I was in seminary, I went to seminary in the mid-80s at Gordon-Conwell Theological
00:07:23Seminary outside of Boston.
00:07:25And I'll never forget, I had a night class, and the reason I took this particular class
00:07:32was because of the professor, and it was Dr. Roger Nicole, who was in the mid to late
00:07:3920th century, just one of the leading evangelical conservative theologians.
00:07:43He was a gruff, a Swiss-trained theologian, but he was teaching there in Massachusetts,
00:07:48and he had an evening class called The Person of Christ, which dealt with the early and various
00:07:57heresies where the early heretics in the first few centuries A.D. were trying to put too much
00:08:04emphasis on the human side or too much on the divine side.
00:08:08And it was a very, very interesting class, and I loved sitting under Dr. Nicole for that.
00:08:15What Hobart said is that the way that Jesus could do his miracles with his human nature
00:08:22was by the power of the Holy Spirit.
00:08:26And as I'm trying to say, I don't know any orthodox theologian in the church's history
00:08:31that would explain things this way, one thing we need to keep in mind is that whatever you
00:08:42want to ascribe to his human nature, and this is not the place to discuss that theological
00:08:47depth, but whatever you want to ascribe to that, we've got to remember Jesus had a perfect,
00:08:54sinless human nature.
00:08:57So even what he did, if you could prove it from Scripture simply by virtue of human nature
00:09:04with no divine nature involved, we don't have a perfect human nature.
00:09:09But Hobart, as he would talk about this, would use the John 10, 34 passage, would use the Philippians
00:09:17to, and then would just go to passages where Jesus would do something like walk on the water,
00:09:22and then when Peter failed, he would rebuke Peter and say, you know, why couldn't you do
00:09:26what I did?
00:09:28But Hobart never taught any type of thorough, in-depth theological understanding, bringing
00:09:35together all of the related passages, exegeting them correctly, explaining them in their context.
00:09:42He never did that for anything.
00:09:44He knew the Bible.
00:09:46He knew the King James translation of the Bible well.
00:09:49And by that, I mean he read his Bible a lot, which is good, which is what we should all
00:09:56do.
00:09:56We should all read our Bible.
00:09:59We should all know passages as well as Dr. Freeman knew them.
00:10:03I think I know a lot of passages, but I think that we need to refrain from trying to string
00:10:11them together like I've said before, like popcorn on a string to feed the birds in the fall.
00:10:16One thing that I do know is that the reason Hobart Freeman was teaching this, I know exactly
00:10:25why he was teaching this, and that is so that we now can imitate Jesus.
00:10:31He has removed all obstacles for any type of miraculous thing being done by us.
00:10:39He's removed the obstacles by ascribing all of Jesus' miracles to his human nature.
00:10:46So it didn't have anything to do with him being God.
00:10:48It only had to do with Jesus being filled with the Holy Spirit, empowered by the Holy Spirit,
00:10:55and then through his human nature, he trusted God.
00:10:59He had faith in his Father above.
00:11:01And by teaching it this way, what Hobart is trying to do is remove any objections we have
00:11:10to say, well, I can't do that.
00:11:13That was Jesus, the Son of God, who did that.
00:11:16No, the little God's teaching says that Jesus did that through his human side.
00:11:21And so now, what does that tell us?
00:11:24Well, we're all humans.
00:11:25We don't have a divine nature.
00:11:26We're all humans, so we can work the same kinds of miracles.
00:11:31So I've got one clip, John, if you could play this.
00:11:34It's from a message done at the Glory Barn in the mid-1970s,
00:11:41and that's when most of these were done, mid-1970s.
00:11:44It was on a tape entitled, Increasing Our Faith.
00:11:50And it's in the very beginning of this message,
00:11:52from the two-minute and 16-second time mark to the three-minute and 51-second time mark.
00:12:02Jesus had perfect faith, so all things were available to him.
00:12:06He didn't carry his money around in a wallet, his possessions on a camel caravan.
00:12:11When he needed food, he multiplied the loaves and fishes.
00:12:15When he needed wine at the wedding feast, he turned water into wine.
00:12:19When he needed to pay his tax money, he told Peter to go fishing.
00:12:22Fishing, the word of knowledge.
00:12:25And so his faith, you see, could spend like money, could heal like medicine,
00:12:31could deliver like an army.
00:12:33And faith is the key to receiving what he's provided and promised us.
00:12:38He had perfect faith.
00:12:39And he tells you in Luke 6, 640 that he wants you to be like him.
00:12:45Now he told me that directly to tell you, but he's already said it in his word.
00:12:48He told me to get into the Gospels because there is the way I would see how he ministered.
00:12:56He said he ministered as a prophet.
00:12:58He said this to me, in total faith.
00:13:01He said, that's how I ministered, in total faith.
00:13:03I had to believe myself in his humanity.
00:13:07And he said, I'm calling you to the same type ministry that I had,
00:13:10a ministry of total faith, and then you in turn are to tell the people they are to believe in total faith.
00:13:17Now, if you read Luke 640, and by the way, that only works if you believe what it just said.
00:13:22If you say, oh, well, that's just him saying that, then it isn't going to work for you.
00:13:27But I wouldn't have to say that to you.
00:13:29It's already in the word, Luke 640.
00:13:32He that is perfect, Jesus said, will be like me, like his master.
00:13:37So it's an interesting story that Hobart tells.
00:13:43And, you know, what we hear or what we've just heard there is that when Jesus was traveling about in Galilee in his earthly ministry,
00:13:51he didn't have to take any money with him.
00:13:55He didn't carry any food with him.
00:13:57Why? Because he just could work miracles.
00:14:01When it came time to pay his taxes, you know, he didn't have to budget or save up any money for taxes.
00:14:08He just used the gift of the word of knowledge and told them, go catch a fish.
00:14:13And the first fish that you hook, pull him up.
00:14:15And when you pull him up, open his mouth.
00:14:17And in his mouth, you'll find a coin and go and pay your taxes with that.
00:14:21Can you imagine what this kind of teaching does in the minds of the people?
00:14:28They're not dummies.
00:14:29Well, maybe some of them were, but they're not supposed to be dummies.
00:14:33They heard Hobart say, we are supposed to operate in our life and ministry the same way Jesus did.
00:14:43Jesus went out without any money or food.
00:14:46And when he needed food, he just created food.
00:14:49When he needed food to feed the people around him, 5,000, 4,000, he just created the food.
00:14:56He didn't need money.
00:14:57He'd just go fishing.
00:14:59And when you catch a fish, there's your tax money right in there.
00:15:03How many people, I wonder, have tried this?
00:15:06I mean, you should try it because Hobart said that this is biblical, that we're little gods.
00:15:12And ye are, does not your own scripture.
00:15:15Do they not say you are a little Jesus?
00:15:19You are a little God.
00:15:21So if Jesus could go do that, and he does it all by the power of his human nature,
00:15:28then just look what that opens up as far as possibilities for us.
00:15:34When we travel in ministry, you don't have to carry any extra money.
00:15:38You don't have to carry food.
00:15:40You can simply work miracles.
00:15:42Now, someone out there may be saying, well, there's, I mean, that's ridiculous.
00:15:46There is no way that Hobart meant that.
00:15:50Well, you listen to the clip again yourself.
00:15:52And in the context of his teaching, you can listen to all of it increasing our faith.
00:15:58In the context of what we're saying in this little God's theology, I don't know where else you can go.
00:16:04But we're little gods.
00:16:07Jesus did it with his human nature.
00:16:09We have the human nature.
00:16:10Therefore, we can go do it ourselves.
00:16:12One of the reasons why I've been focused on this particular doctrine of recent – I've had multiple guests talking about recent events where this doctrine is – or at least Branham's version of this doctrine – is beginning to surface in political, pseudo-religious context.
00:16:29And if you understand what they're trying to say, it's deeply tied to the dominionism.
00:16:39If you can become God, well, you can, you know, reface the earth, repurpose the earth.
00:16:45And that's literally what they're trying to do today through politics and religion.
00:16:49But the way that Branham twisted this doctrine, literally twisted the gospel, he rewrote the DNA of the gospel.
00:16:58Like you said, Jesus was, you know, in the way that this doctrine presents Jesus, it's a manifested son.
00:17:08They always go back to what Branham did.
00:17:11He always went back to the phrase, he was the son of man.
00:17:15And do you know who the son of man is?
00:17:17He would use that phrase to try to say, son of man, if you interpret it, it just means son of Adam.
00:17:22It means human.
00:17:23And so he's trying to say that.
00:17:26But what the biblical text, if you understand the history of that phrase, it's also used for the prophets.
00:17:34And so when Jesus was using it, he was trying to present the idea that he was a prophet, but he was more than a prophet.
00:17:41He was divine.
00:17:43And the way that this little God's theology twists it, it's that he was just a human.
00:17:50He was just like you and I, but he became the manifested son of God.
00:17:55And with this prophet status, now he became the greatest manifested son of God.
00:18:00So in the hierarchy of manifested sons of God, he's at the top until today.
00:18:05And that's interesting because the until today became a theme in the latter rain.
00:18:10Branham would say things, and multiple of these men said it.
00:18:14I've heard it from others.
00:18:16But he would say things like, Jesus had a limited number of miracles in his ministry.
00:18:21Look how many we've had today.
00:18:22We've had more miracles in my ministry than Jesus did on the face of the planet.
00:18:27That was a phrase, I'm paraphrasing, but that was a quote from Branham.
00:18:31What he's trying to say is, you too can be a manifested son of God, especially if you're
00:18:36in leadership, and you have the power to bring down heaven on earth.
00:18:41Therefore, if you follow it out to its logical conclusion, you are Jesus walking on earth.
00:18:47And in 1965, William Branham, after convincing all of his following that he was the return of
00:18:53Elijah the prophet, he was a manifested son of God, he was the supreme manifested son of
00:18:58God. He said, the Elijah of today is Jesus Christ, not a man, but God in the form of a prophet.
00:19:06That was his words in 1965.
00:19:09So he had become more than a little God.
00:19:11He was king, little God.
00:19:13And that's what's so interesting about this doctrine.
00:19:15It isn't that you can become a God and you can be equal with the leader who's presenting it.
00:19:21It's that you're in a hierarchy of gods.
00:19:23There's one at the top.
00:19:24There's one in the middle.
00:19:25Oh, there's one at the bottom.
00:19:26You're going to be the one at the bottom.
00:19:29And John, wow.
00:19:32Don't all of these ministers, Hobart never went that far.
00:19:35I mean, what you just described is definitely what this teaching was all about.
00:19:40We are little gods.
00:19:41He never would go.
00:19:44He never said the things that you just said that Branham said, but we have given clips of
00:19:49Hobart before where did he not say that God had given the full end time message of faith,
00:19:55whatever that is, to one man.
00:19:58And he said, well, that's enough.
00:20:00The rest of it's self-explanatory.
00:20:02Well, he was obviously talking about himself.
00:20:05It seems like every one of these goofballs who ends up with any kind of, you know, big
00:20:12following, they all end up thinking that they're the one, you know, you're the one, you're
00:20:19finally the one.
00:20:21And surely he knew that people before him felt they were the one.
00:20:26And, you know, I look at stuff like that.
00:20:29I look at time.
00:20:30I look at these people who predict the date of the second advent.
00:20:33And of course, so many people have predicted and it comes and goes.
00:20:37And then what makes us think all of a sudden today now?
00:20:41Oh, now I know they were all they they predicted and they were all wrong.
00:20:46But I know the day.
00:20:49I mean, just just history would tell you if you ever had the thought in your mind that
00:20:54you might know the date, you need to go hang yourself.
00:21:00Don't really do that.
00:21:01You need to go hit yourself in the face and say, don't dare believe that.
00:21:06I mean, so it's the same situation.
00:21:09If any if any minister were ever tempted to think I might be the one, all you got to do
00:21:15is look at all the people before you who thought they were the one and look at look at what
00:21:19happened to all of them.
00:21:20You know, William Branham dies in a car collision.
00:21:23Right.
00:21:24In the end of 1965 and Hobart dies a much more painful and worse death than that.
00:21:31So, yes, don't don't copy these guys.
00:21:35And anyway, this teaching, this little God's teaching, you can trace it back all during the
00:21:44late 60s.
00:21:46It was being taught by other people all during the 70s.
00:21:50It was being taught by people, people like, well, the whole word of faith group of people,
00:21:58Jerry Savelle, Marilyn Hickey, Billy Joe Doherty, of course, Kenneth Hagin.
00:22:06And Kenneth Copeland was probably the biggest teacher of it at all because he just constantly
00:22:13talked about we are little gods and God says, I'm a God and I'm God.
00:22:19And he does all of this stuff.
00:22:21And people are just, I mean, they're just fascinated with Kenneth Copeland's stage persona.
00:22:28He just all of a sudden takes on this deep baritone voice like that somehow makes him
00:22:35more of a God than he was when he talked at a higher octave.
00:22:39And then he'll just say, I am a God because, and don't you think that's heresy because God
00:22:46said, I'm a God, I'm a God and you're a God.
00:22:51And I don't think he has, you know, any hope of understanding.
00:22:57I mean, he knows no more about John 10, 34 than, than Miss Jumpers, my cat back here.
00:23:03He literally knows no more about it.
00:23:06It's not an easy verse to interpret.
00:23:08We should all start with the fact that there are some things in the Bible easier and there
00:23:12are some harder.
00:23:14And that's actually not one of the really hard ones, but it's not one you can just go
00:23:18to and say, oh, he said, you're gods.
00:23:21That means I'm God.
00:23:22That just means I'm God.
00:23:24No, there's more to it than that.
00:23:26And I think it really actually is traced back to E.W.
00:23:30Kenyon.
00:23:31E.W.
00:23:32Kenyon had a whole lot to say about this.
00:23:34And what's interesting about Kenyon, he, you know, Hagen was a big follower of Kenyon.
00:23:39What's interesting about E.W.
00:23:41Kenyon is that he also was maybe more or less the father of the Jesus died spiritually heresy,
00:23:50something that Hobart rightly taught against and hated.
00:23:54And yet he's Hobart is believing this little God's theology teaching that came from E.W.
00:24:04Kenyon.
00:24:05But he's very much opposed to Kenyon whenever it comes to Jesus died spiritually.
00:24:10I don't even know if Hobart knows.
00:24:12I just think that he heard that teaching in the late 60s when he became charismatic.
00:24:20I don't know the exact source for Hobart hearing it the first time, but it was being taught then by Kenneth Hagen.
00:24:28It was coming through the writings of E.W.
00:24:31Kenyon.
00:24:32Hobart was just devouring all of the charismatic literature on the market.
00:24:37Anything he could find, he was either listening to on a recorded cassette tape or if it's a book, he's buying and reading.
00:24:46And he's trying to jettison most of his brethren in Southern Baptist theology because he's just welcoming in all of this new charismatic understanding.
00:24:56And along with that comes some dangerous things like this little God theology.
00:25:00In mathematics, you have the value of pi, which in its simplest form is 3.14, but you can carry it out to 15 digits, 50 digits, 5,000 digits, as far as you want to go.
00:25:13I look at this doctrine much the same as pi because whenever Hobart Freeman had it, it might be 3.14.
00:25:20It might be this little tiny number.
00:25:21But if you follow it out to its logical conclusion, I think the reason why it didn't get so far as what Branham had, Hobart Freeman died younger than he could have lived had he got medication and got doctrine.
00:25:36Whenever you're a stage persona in this mindset that ye are gods, you enter into a stage persona every time you enter out onto the platform.
00:25:48And there is a psychological effect that happens.
00:25:52You start to believe what you think you are on stage.
00:25:55And that separates from the reality of who you are when you're off stage, which is fascinating and interesting to me.
00:26:02But you mentioned Kenyon.
00:26:04So F.F. Bosworth, who was in the Dowie extremist cult, he was a studier of Kenyon, and he published many thoughts and quotes that Kenyon had.
00:26:15In fact, I think his book, Christ the Healer, I think at the end of it, he attributes a lot of it to Kenyon.
00:26:22And he mentored Branham, so Branham's teaching it.
00:26:25Neither one can claim ownership of it.
00:26:27But what they did, each person that teaches this doctrine, it's such a warped, twisted mentality that you have to enter into to even believe it in the first place,
00:26:38that you start to wire into the doctrine your own weird beliefs that are the conclusions you come to when you first understand the doctrine.
00:26:48And so each person who's building upon another person's version of the doctrine, they think they have some source of truth that they discovered while their mind was literally getting warped.
00:26:59But essentially it comes down to this, and the irony.
00:27:03The irony is many people who are of this mindset will condemn the children for reading Harry Potter books.
00:27:10But yet the elements building to this – so one of the elements, faith is a force.
00:27:15Branham used to teach faith as a substance, and he would quote that passage and then totally destroy what the passage meant with regards to faith.
00:27:23It's a literal substance, not understanding the language of the ancients, right, or the Queen's English.
00:27:31But it was a – faith was meant to be a force, just like it is in sorcery.
00:27:36Words create reality.
00:27:37It's part of the, you know, the Word of Faith movement's theology now, but before that it was Branham's spoken word.
00:27:45So Hobart was building upon that.
00:27:48That the – just the system of theology that was used, each building block is taking something biblical and twisting and rewriting the DNA of it to be more of sorcery than it is of Christianity.
00:28:02And as a little god, you are essentially, if you follow it out to its logical conclusion, you become little sorcerers.
00:28:08They're talking about things that you can speak into existence or things that you can command, realities.
00:28:14You can even walk up to somebody, and if they're having a bad day, you can force your opinion on the way that they should think about their day, and they should accept it.
00:28:25And I recently had another person – who was it?
00:28:29A podcast I'm doing with Christian.
00:28:31We were talking about in Germany, the book The Secret became very popular in Germany, much like it did here a few years back.
00:28:39But it's that idea that you can control things by forcing your mind upon it.
00:28:43Your mind is a force, your belief is a force, your faith is a force, and you can sway opinions.
00:28:50You literally become not little gods but little sorcerers who's using your mind to conquer demons.
00:28:55That's what it becomes.
00:28:57Well, Hobart was just part of a system.
00:29:00It's not that he went to Branham and studied.
00:29:03What does Branham teach on this?
00:29:04He was part of a system where men were being trained to believe this, and that's part of where I'm working through in the research right now.
00:29:12Because when Branham died, in fact, I don't know if I've showed you this or not, but I recently got this book, The Man Who Did Not Die, Elijah, by Gordon Lindsay.
00:29:26And Charles talked about this in our Revival History series.
00:29:29But essentially where this doctrine began to be widespread, and I think this is where Hobart Freeman would have picked it up.
00:29:40Up until William Branham's death, many people, I'm assuming in Gordon Lindsay and the way he's writing this,
00:29:46many people believe William Branham was the return of Elijah as predicted, they say, in Malachi chapter 4.
00:29:53They had separated 3 from 4, not knowing it's a scroll where there are no chapters, and said that chapter 3 talks about John the Baptist,
00:30:01chapter 4 is talking about the Elijah of this day, the last day, right before Armageddon.
00:30:08Well, when he died, how does that work?
00:30:09Everything that was supposed to happen with Malachi 4 didn't in their version of understanding of Malachi 4.
00:30:16So Gordon Lindsay writes this book saying that Elijah is going to come as a spirit on the corporate body of the church.
00:30:25The very last chapter of this is basically taking everything that they believed in William Branham,
00:30:30now apply it to the body of believers, which if you follow that to its logical conclusion,
00:30:35knowing that there is a cult hierarchy, he's literally talking about the elite members of the spiritual body,
00:30:41not the rank and file.
00:30:44So this began to be trained in the Christ for the Nations Institute.
00:30:50It started to be widespread throughout the – they had these deliverance conferences he was holding with Branham.
00:30:56Deliverance conferences turned into training centers, turned into entire courses where you could learn deliverance,
00:31:02how to practice it.
00:31:03And the idea is that you're a deliverance minister because you have that Elijah spirit in you,
00:31:09and as that Elijah spirit, it is a little small portion of God.
00:31:13So it's tied so deeply to the manifested sons of God.
00:31:17Like you said, it does go all the way back to Kenyon.
00:31:20But Branham is the one who systematically took all of these heresies and all of these apostasy.
00:31:28Steve Montgomery calls it the converging apostasy.
00:31:31He takes all of these different numbskull beliefs and he combines it into one doctrine.
00:31:36And then what happened was, not everybody attributes Branham, but they started building on it,
00:31:41and they're all building in different directions.
00:31:43So each person has their own version of the doctrine.
00:31:46Hobart Freeman has one, and he assumes it's unique and it's, you know, it's his,
00:31:51but it's really built on the foundation that was laid by others.
00:31:54Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started,
00:31:58or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign,
00:32:03charismatic, and other fringe movements into the new apostolic reformation?
00:32:08You can learn this and more on William Branham Historical Research's website,
00:32:13william-branham.org.
00:32:15On the books page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins,
00:32:20Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery, John McKinnon, and others,
00:32:24with links to the paper, audio, and digital versions of each book.
00:32:29You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those movements.
00:32:36If you want to contribute to the cause,
00:32:38you can support the podcast by clicking the Contribute button at the top.
00:32:42And as always, be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're listening to or watching.
00:32:49On behalf of William Branham Historical Research, we want to thank you for your support.
00:32:54I had read other charismatic literature, and I thought, well, I read this over there,
00:32:58but, you know, maybe Brother Freeman has a pure version of it,
00:33:03and I think every group thinks their group has the better version that's been purified of its excesses or unscriptural parts.
00:33:12And previously, hey, you mentioned, I mean, there's just a lot we could talk about here,
00:33:17and we will continue this over the months, but you mentioned dominionism earlier.
00:33:24That is another thing that, yes, definitely comes under this same heading,
00:33:29and Hobart talked about it a lot.
00:33:31And here's the context in which you would hear that in Dr. Freeman's ministry.
00:33:38And you heard it also in the other charismatic ministers of that era,
00:33:43that God wants us to reclaim or to take back what Adam lost in the fall.
00:33:50This was a big subject for Dr. Freeman,
00:33:54and it was a big subject for all of those other charismatic ministers.
00:33:59So they would take us back to the creation, Garden of Eden narrative in Genesis,
00:34:06the first three chapters,
00:34:08and show us that, according to Scripture,
00:34:11Adam was meant to fill up the earth,
00:34:15to subdue the earth,
00:34:17and to have dominion over it,
00:34:20over the animals, over the fish,
00:34:22over the birds, over everything.
00:34:24And I've heard sermons where they walk you through the intelligence that Adam had,
00:34:30seen by virtue of the fact he was able to name all of the animals.
00:34:35And here you have basically, in their view, a little God.
00:34:41That's why it all ties in together.
00:34:43This is pre-fall Garden of Eden,
00:34:46so Adam has not sinned.
00:34:48He doesn't have any iniquity or unrighteousness in his character.
00:34:52He was created in the image of God,
00:34:56holy and righteous and upright.
00:34:58And until he disobeyed, he remained in that state.
00:35:02And so what they say is,
00:35:05what happened is Satan wanted to control the world,
00:35:10and so Adam was the God, small g,
00:35:14but the God of this world.
00:35:16Satan wanted to become the God of this world,
00:35:19and so he came,
00:35:21he tempted Adam through his wife Eve,
00:35:24and was able to usurp,
00:35:27control the world.
00:35:28And now, what we have to do,
00:35:30we Christians,
00:35:31we've got to take the world back from Satan.
00:35:34We've got to reclaim our dominion,
00:35:36and reclaim all of our rights.
00:35:39I don't know if people have seen this, John,
00:35:42but I know they can either go online
00:35:45and find a YouTube clip,
00:35:47but you could put one up there for them also if you want to.
00:35:50Where Kenneth Copeland has several times recently
00:35:55said that he has a divine mandate from God
00:35:59that he's going to live for 120 years.
00:36:04He even gives the date of his death,
00:36:06and it's like 2056 or something like that.
00:36:10I would love for people to see this guy.
00:36:14I mean, somebody like Mr. Copeland is just,
00:36:19he's a mentally unstable, unbalanced person.
00:36:23But this 120 years,
00:36:25we've talked about this before with Dr. Freeman.
00:36:28Freeman quoted Deuteronomy 34 all the time too,
00:36:32saying,
00:36:32Now Moses, his eye was not dim,
00:36:34neither was his natural force abated,
00:36:36and he lived 120 years.
00:36:38You know, why can't we live 120 years?
00:36:42Well, if you're going to reclaim,
00:36:43if you're going to reclaim what Adam lost,
00:36:46just go back and get Methuselah,
00:36:48969 years.
00:36:50Why stop with 120?
00:36:52That is puny.
00:36:54That is puny.
00:36:55That is faithless to stop with 120 years.
00:36:58Go back and claim more than that.
00:37:01But Hobart used this same idea
00:37:03as the basis for just extreme views.
00:37:07So we have another clip
00:37:09from Dr. Freeman's message entitled,
00:37:13listen to the very title of it,
00:37:14and you know where this is going to go.
00:37:17Recovering Our Dominion and Rights,
00:37:22taught in the Glory Barn
00:37:23in the mid-1970s,
00:37:26from the 40 minute and 24 second mark
00:37:29through the 42 minute and 19 second mark.
00:37:34You claim it'll work.
00:37:36Then the second thing you've got to do
00:37:37is command the usurper to release it.
00:37:40Satan.
00:37:41You see, you've got to be specific here.
00:37:44If you want a Vega, yellow, white wall tires,
00:37:48you can do a little better than that.
00:37:50I mean, with a little more comfort.
00:37:52Eric, you spell that out and say,
00:37:54Satan, take your hands off.
00:37:55You've got to be specific
00:37:56because he has all the economy,
00:38:00he has everything in this world bound,
00:38:03and you have to command him to release it.
00:38:05I do it every time.
00:38:06I claim anything of any amount,
00:38:09like a car, of any size.
00:38:11After claiming the second step,
00:38:12I always describe it to the devil
00:38:14and tell him to take his hands off it.
00:38:17I haven't failed yet, friends.
00:38:18He must be hearing me.
00:38:19I wish I could claim that was original with me,
00:38:23but another brother, prophet in the church,
00:38:25he tells us that the Lord directly in vision
00:38:27and by audible voice told him to do this.
00:38:30He said, in my ministry, I was praying for money.
00:38:32And he says, oh, I desperately need it.
00:38:34It's so much money, like $130 many years ago.
00:38:37And he said, I was just begging away for this money.
00:38:39He's a faith teacher.
00:38:40He says, the Lord spoke to me in an audible voice,
00:38:43said, what are you praying to me for?
00:38:44It isn't up here.
00:38:45It's down there.
00:38:47It's yours.
00:38:48Satan has it bound.
00:38:49Well, claim what you want.
00:38:50Tell him to take his hands off it.
00:38:52He said, I did it and got it right away.
00:38:55And of course, he does that all the time.
00:38:56So do I.
00:38:57You have to command the devil.
00:38:58He's a usurper.
00:38:59He doesn't own a thing.
00:39:00It's yours.
00:39:01The word says it's yours.
00:39:03And if you don't want it,
00:39:05then of course, don't ask for it.
00:39:06But we're talking about people
00:39:07who want to get to work and back
00:39:09without having to hitchhike
00:39:10and be out of debt
00:39:13and don't think God's mad
00:39:15if they don't owe everybody in town.
00:39:17Most people think God's displeased
00:39:18if they walk in health and prosperity,
00:39:20but he isn't.
00:39:21He's happy when you start
00:39:22releasing those areas of your life to him
00:39:24so you can spend your time
00:39:26in spiritual matters.
00:39:27It's a wonderful thing
00:39:27not to have to take any thought
00:39:29for these things.
00:39:30And what we hear in this clip
00:39:31is Dr. Freeman saying,
00:39:33now, the second thing
00:39:35that you've got to do
00:39:36in order to get your dominion
00:39:38and rights back,
00:39:39and you can listen to the message yourself
00:39:41and hear what the first thing is,
00:39:42but the second thing
00:39:43what you have to do is
00:39:45you've got to tell the devil
00:39:47who is a usurper.
00:39:50He's a thief.
00:39:51He's a counterfeiter.
00:39:52He's a usurper.
00:39:53He's stolen these things from you.
00:39:56You've got to tell the devil
00:39:58to take his hands off
00:39:59of what rightfully belongs to you.
00:40:02And he said,
00:40:03and you have to be specific.
00:40:05So if you want a yellow Vega
00:40:08with white sidewalls,
00:40:11that was way back in the day
00:40:13when he used that
00:40:14as an illustration for the car
00:40:16someone would be claiming.
00:40:17He said,
00:40:18if that's what you want,
00:40:19you've got to name it specifically.
00:40:21Tell the devil
00:40:21to take his hands off of it.
00:40:23And then Hobart goes on to say,
00:40:25you know,
00:40:25I believe just for luxury vehicles,
00:40:28but he said,
00:40:28that's one thing I always do
00:40:30whenever I claim a vehicle.
00:40:32Then the second thing I do,
00:40:34you claim it.
00:40:35And the second thing you do
00:40:36is you announce to the devil,
00:40:38this does not belong to you.
00:40:39This belongs to me.
00:40:41Take your hands off of it.
00:40:43Yeah, John,
00:40:44to me,
00:40:44that sounds like sorcery
00:40:45and witchcraft
00:40:46to even talk like that.
00:40:49The way you get a luxury car
00:40:51is you get a job
00:40:52and you earn enough money
00:40:54and you go purchase the car.
00:40:56You don't claim it.
00:40:57There's no such thing
00:40:58as claiming vehicles.
00:41:00And even more ridiculous,
00:41:02would be to claim it
00:41:03and then think
00:41:04that the devil
00:41:05has his claws on your car.
00:41:08And so you have to go tell him,
00:41:10take your hands off of my car
00:41:12because that car belongs to me.
00:41:14It's just the most fairy tale,
00:41:17infantile, juvenile,
00:41:19ridiculous kind of stuff.
00:41:22And yet these big time ministers
00:41:25believe these things.
00:41:27I guess they believed them.
00:41:28Hobart believed them,
00:41:30taught these things
00:41:31and were able to convince
00:41:33so many other people
00:41:34that this is the right way.
00:41:36Hobart also had a couple
00:41:38of other things
00:41:39he liked to talk about.
00:41:40He found,
00:41:41look at these verses
00:41:42that he found.
00:41:43He found Job 22
00:41:45and verse 28.
00:41:48Oh, have I heard sermons on this.
00:41:51You know,
00:41:51buried right in the middle
00:41:52of the book of Job,
00:41:53which is another difficult book
00:41:55to interpret.
00:41:57You know,
00:41:57it really is.
00:41:58You've got Job's speeches.
00:41:59You've got the speeches
00:42:00of his three friends.
00:42:02How would you like
00:42:03to interpret verse by verse
00:42:04all the chapters
00:42:07of the book of Job?
00:42:08That's a difficult book.
00:42:09But people like Hobart
00:42:11weren't concerned with that.
00:42:13They were just looking
00:42:14for proof text.
00:42:15If I can find
00:42:16a little candy cane,
00:42:17a little nugget
00:42:18buried in here,
00:42:19I'll pull it out.
00:42:21Job 22, 28,
00:42:22thou shalt also decree a thing
00:42:24and it shall be established
00:42:25unto you.
00:42:26So Hobart would teach
00:42:28there's a higher level
00:42:29of faith
00:42:30than just claiming something.
00:42:32You don't claim it.
00:42:33You just decree it
00:42:34as a fact.
00:42:35You just decree
00:42:37the car is now mine
00:42:39or you decree
00:42:40the cancer is now gone.
00:42:41You say,
00:42:42I decree that
00:42:43and as soon as you decree that,
00:42:45it will be gone.
00:42:46And I'll give you one more,
00:42:47John,
00:42:47and I know you're itching
00:42:48to throw your two cents in.
00:42:50There's even a higher level
00:42:52than that.
00:42:53And this is Isaiah 45, 11.
00:42:57I just want people to realize
00:42:59this is not the way
00:43:01we do Bible study.
00:43:03This is not the way you go.
00:43:04This is not the way
00:43:05you learn God's word
00:43:07by being able to memorize
00:43:09a couple of verses
00:43:10and be completely unaware
00:43:12of the context
00:43:14or anything that it could
00:43:15even possibly be saying
00:43:17besides what your false minister
00:43:19has told you that it's saying.
00:43:20So in Isaiah 45, 11,
00:43:23we have concerning
00:43:24the work of my hands,
00:43:27command ye me.
00:43:30Hobart even has a message.
00:43:31It's on the L18
00:43:33and it's called
00:43:35Commanding Faith.
00:43:37So here,
00:43:38because you are God,
00:43:40because you are God,
00:43:42you don't have to ask God
00:43:44for anything.
00:43:46No, you actually
00:43:47just command God.
00:43:49And Hobart said,
00:43:50I don't,
00:43:50he said,
00:43:51don't come up here
00:43:52and argue with me.
00:43:52That's what the text says.
00:43:54He always says,
00:43:54that's what the text says.
00:43:56And it is what the text says.
00:43:57But come on,
00:43:59do we really think
00:44:00we can command God the Father
00:44:01to do anything?
00:44:03You can try.
00:44:03Do you think he's going to do it?
00:44:05I doubt it.
00:44:06Seriously.
00:44:07So you've got claim it,
00:44:09then you've got decree a thing
00:44:12and it will be established unto you.
00:44:14And then you've got
00:44:15a higher faith,
00:44:16commanding faith,
00:44:18and that's just command God
00:44:20to go do what you want him to do.
00:44:22There are a thousand places
00:44:23that I could go with this.
00:44:24I'm seriously struggling
00:44:25to try to contain it
00:44:26into one podcast.
00:44:28I think I'm going to go back
00:44:29to the second Adam theme
00:44:31because I think
00:44:32that's key to understand
00:44:34and people don't really grasp
00:44:35how significant that is.
00:44:37So you mentioned,
00:44:38he would say,
00:44:39the text says this.
00:44:40I've heard Branham say it
00:44:41a thousand times.
00:44:42I've heard Hagen say it.
00:44:43All of these people will say,
00:44:45the text says this.
00:44:45Does it not?
00:44:47And they give you the phrase
00:44:48and sure enough,
00:44:49if you go look at the Bible,
00:44:50that phrase is there.
00:44:52But they're not telling you,
00:44:53A, they've twisted the phrase.
00:44:55B, they have supplied you
00:44:56with enough loaded language
00:44:57and indoctrination
00:44:58that that phrase
00:44:59no longer means
00:45:00what that phrase says.
00:45:02All the way down
00:45:03to the second Adam.
00:45:04And so what Paul is saying,
00:45:07he's talking about
00:45:08the resurrected Christ.
00:45:09He's saying there's
00:45:10the first Adam
00:45:11and then from that
00:45:12we have all of humanity.
00:45:14Then he's saying
00:45:15Christ is the second Adam.
00:45:16With Christ,
00:45:17you get your resurrected body.
00:45:19So with the second Adam,
00:45:21you're going to have
00:45:21your resurrected body,
00:45:23which gives you,
00:45:24you know,
00:45:25you're purchased
00:45:25into the blood of Christ
00:45:26and you become
00:45:27the body of Christ.
00:45:29So Paul is saying
00:45:30nothing more than this,
00:45:31but this little God's
00:45:33manifested sons of God
00:45:34language overloads this
00:45:36to where it means
00:45:38that like Adam,
00:45:40one of the things
00:45:41that's overloaded
00:45:42in this is dominionism.
00:45:44Adam had dominion
00:45:45over the kingdom
00:45:46until the fall.
00:45:47So what he's trying
00:45:48to say is Christ
00:45:49will give you
00:45:49that same dominion.
00:45:51That's a loaded language
00:45:52that's into this context.
00:45:54Essentially,
00:45:54it's trying to say
00:45:55that we're all,
00:45:57humans are little gods
00:45:58in embryo form
00:45:59and God's going to
00:46:00birth all of the embryos
00:46:02of little gods.
00:46:03Jesus is going to birth
00:46:04all the embryos
00:46:04of little gods
00:46:05with this passage.
00:46:07But essentially,
00:46:10what they're teaching
00:46:11is that because you have
00:46:12the ability to speak
00:46:15and your commands
00:46:17that you speak
00:46:18will come to pass,
00:46:19it means that you are
00:46:20like God,
00:46:21tying it back to John 1,
00:46:23in the beginning
00:46:23was the Word,
00:46:24the Word was with God.
00:46:26They'll use the spoken word,
00:46:27the rhema,
00:46:27whatever it is
00:46:28to overload that passage
00:46:29all the way back
00:46:31to where Adam was
00:46:33in dominion
00:46:34over the fish
00:46:36of the sea.
00:46:37I can't remember
00:46:37the exact verbiage.
00:46:38You probably know it,
00:46:39but there's a dominion passage
00:46:41from Genesis
00:46:41that they tie this to.
00:46:43So all of these
00:46:43different elements
00:46:44of loaded language
00:46:45are behind that statement.
00:46:48Does not the text say this?
00:46:50To the person
00:46:51who's never been indoctrinated,
00:46:52they look at that text
00:46:53and they're like,
00:46:53well, no,
00:46:54that text obviously
00:46:55doesn't say that.
00:46:57But to the person
00:46:57who's been manipulated
00:46:58and indoctrinated,
00:47:00they can't see it
00:47:01any other way.
00:47:02And until you strip out
00:47:03all of that programming,
00:47:05you and I had this conversation
00:47:06right before this podcast,
00:47:08there are so many things
00:47:09programmed in your heads
00:47:10when you're in these movements
00:47:11that you read a passage
00:47:12and it triggers
00:47:14a million different thoughts,
00:47:15none of which really
00:47:16even are close
00:47:18to resembling the passage.
00:47:20It's like you started off
00:47:21saying here, John,
00:47:21that the phrase
00:47:22is actually there.
00:47:24And that is what
00:47:25is so dangerous.
00:47:27But that's the old
00:47:28proof texting,
00:47:29cherry picking method.
00:47:30The phrase is always there.
00:47:33Generally,
00:47:33that literal,
00:47:35actual phrase
00:47:36that they quote,
00:47:36I mean,
00:47:37they quote it perfectly.
00:47:39Command ye me.
00:47:42Thou shalt decree a thing
00:47:45and it shall be established
00:47:46unto you.
00:47:47So we're assuming
00:47:48he's talking to me
00:47:49when it said
00:47:50you shall decree a thing.
00:47:52I mean,
00:47:52you just have to make
00:47:54all of those assumptions.
00:47:55But of course,
00:47:55those assumptions
00:47:56are made for you
00:47:57by the minister.
00:47:57It's what makes
00:47:59these groups
00:47:59so dangerous
00:48:00and it's what makes
00:48:02any form of Bible study
00:48:04besides regular
00:48:05chapter by chapter,
00:48:08book by book,
00:48:09exegetical study,
00:48:11it's what makes it
00:48:12so dangerous
00:48:12because the Bible's
00:48:14a big book.
00:48:15You know,
00:48:15there's a couple
00:48:16of million words in it.
00:48:17There are thousands
00:48:18of verses
00:48:19and tens of thousands
00:48:21of phrases in it.
00:48:22It's a big book.
00:48:23It's not like
00:48:24it's a little
00:48:2414-page pamphlet.
00:48:26There's a lot
00:48:27of information
00:48:27and a lot
00:48:28of material in there
00:48:29and you have
00:48:30to take your time
00:48:32and you don't get
00:48:32this overnight
00:48:34to work your way
00:48:35through the Bible
00:48:36and it comes
00:48:36by reading the Bible
00:48:37yourself
00:48:38and studying it
00:48:39yourself.
00:48:40But you can take
00:48:41these passages
00:48:42that we've talked
00:48:43about like Isaiah
00:48:4445-11
00:48:46or Job 22-28
00:48:48and go read
00:48:49the context
00:48:50after hearing
00:48:51this podcast
00:48:52and you probably
00:48:54won't come away
00:48:55with little
00:48:56God's theology.
00:48:57It's just
00:48:58once you start
00:49:01with something
00:49:01you need more
00:49:03passages
00:49:03to support it
00:49:05and that's what
00:49:05these guys do.
00:49:07So I'm going to go
00:49:08one final direction
00:49:09with this,
00:49:10John,
00:49:11because this is what
00:49:12Hobart loved to do
00:49:13with all of this
00:49:14and this is where
00:49:14it gets really weird
00:49:16but he had
00:49:18a message
00:49:19entitled,
00:49:20listen to the title
00:49:21of this one,
00:49:22Sonship Faith.
00:49:24In this message
00:49:25he tells,
00:49:26he said,
00:49:26now if this makes
00:49:27it any easier
00:49:27for you guys
00:49:28to receive this,
00:49:29God gave this
00:49:30whole message
00:49:31to me by prophecy
00:49:32so that would
00:49:33actually make it
00:49:33harder for me
00:49:34to listen to it.
00:49:36I would be
00:49:37more inclined
00:49:38if he had worked
00:49:39several weeks
00:49:40or months
00:49:41on some passages
00:49:42exegeting them
00:49:43but if you're
00:49:44of the charismatic,
00:49:46super spiritual,
00:49:47mystical mind
00:49:49then to know,
00:49:50oh God just gave
00:49:51him this message
00:49:52by prophecy.
00:49:53I remember we did
00:49:54an earlier podcast
00:49:55where Hobart said
00:49:56God told him
00:49:58that if you ever
00:49:58need a message
00:49:59just sit down
00:50:01at your typewriter
00:50:02and you can
00:50:03prophesy a message
00:50:04and type it out
00:50:05and then go preach
00:50:06it to the people
00:50:07and he did that
00:50:07many times
00:50:08and this is one of them,
00:50:09Sonship Faith.
00:50:11Okay,
00:50:11it was delivered,
00:50:12this is an old message
00:50:13in 1969
00:50:15it's given
00:50:16in the basement
00:50:18of a home
00:50:20in Muncie,
00:50:20Indiana.
00:50:22You know all this
00:50:23because you listen
00:50:24to all of his messages
00:50:25and you learn
00:50:25all of these tidbits.
00:50:27The family's name
00:50:28was Mitchell.
00:50:29It's mostly a group
00:50:30of women
00:50:31but they're in
00:50:31the Mitchell's basement
00:50:32in 1969
00:50:34in Muncie,
00:50:35Indiana
00:50:35and we're going
00:50:38to hear
00:50:387 minute
00:50:3942 second
00:50:40through 9 minute
00:50:42and 12 second mark.
00:50:44Friends,
00:50:45it's being done
00:50:46where there's just
00:50:46a little bit of faith.
00:50:48The fog,
00:50:49the wind,
00:50:49the waves,
00:50:51the tornadoes,
00:50:52the hurricanes.
00:50:54When people
00:50:54take Christ
00:50:56literally here,
00:50:57they can change
00:50:58and control
00:50:58the weather
00:50:59when they have to
00:50:59and it's being done.
00:51:04Amen.
00:51:04Amen.
00:51:05I almost say like
00:51:11why don't you
00:51:12try it sometime
00:51:13because if you try it
00:51:14it won't hurt.
00:51:14You have to believe it.
00:51:17Well, I could give you
00:51:18account springs.
00:51:19I mean,
00:51:20I have heard people tell
00:51:21and we have taken
00:51:22authority over fog
00:51:23and I frequently
00:51:24take authority
00:51:25over snow
00:51:26in driving.
00:51:27I have to
00:51:27and I haven't yet
00:51:29ever had to pull
00:51:30off the side of the road
00:51:31in a snowstorm.
00:51:32It just clears up.
00:51:33You say,
00:51:34well, you drove out of it.
00:51:35Well, you put any
00:51:36explanation on it
00:51:37that you want.
00:51:38It could have gotten
00:51:38thicker
00:51:39instead of getting thinner.
00:51:43So,
00:51:44this is simply
00:51:45what he tells you.
00:51:46Wind and tornadoes
00:51:48and storms
00:51:48are spirits,
00:51:50friends,
00:51:50that cause them
00:51:51and you take authority.
00:51:52You notice he rebukes them.
00:51:54He didn't pray,
00:51:55Lord,
00:51:55can you help us here
00:51:56we're about to sink.
00:51:57He just commanded it
00:51:59to cease.
00:51:59He was dealing
00:52:00with the devil
00:52:00and if you know
00:52:01who to deal with
00:52:02then you get caught
00:52:03in that fog
00:52:03going 60 miles an hour
00:52:05on the road,
00:52:06you start rebuking
00:52:06that fog.
00:52:07Don't start praying
00:52:08to the Lord
00:52:09to get you
00:52:10off the side of the road.
00:52:11There's no time to pray.
00:52:13There's just time
00:52:13to know what to do.
00:52:15So, wow,
00:52:16this was a big theme
00:52:17of his
00:52:18in the early 70s.
00:52:19He wanted to talk
00:52:20a lot about weather,
00:52:22that he could control weather,
00:52:25especially snow and fog.
00:52:27And, of course,
00:52:29he gets this
00:52:30from the stories
00:52:32of Jesus
00:52:32with the disciples
00:52:34on the Sea of Galilee
00:52:35and the storm
00:52:38comes across the lake
00:52:39and the apostles
00:52:41are all afraid
00:52:42and what do we read
00:52:44but that Jesus rebuked
00:52:46the wind and the storm
00:52:47and everything calmed down.
00:52:50Well, oh my,
00:52:51have I heard messages
00:52:52of Hobart about this.
00:52:54He said,
00:52:54well, look,
00:52:54he said storms
00:52:55can't hear you.
00:52:57He said storms
00:52:58are evil spirits.
00:53:00Bad weather,
00:53:01that's all evil spirits
00:53:02because you don't talk
00:53:03to a storm.
00:53:04He said,
00:53:05wouldn't that be ridiculous
00:53:05for Jesus to talk
00:53:07to a storm?
00:53:08A storm can't hear him
00:53:09but an evil demon
00:53:10can hear him
00:53:11so he is talking
00:53:12to a demon.
00:53:14Storms,
00:53:15he says,
00:53:15in that clip,
00:53:16storms are evil spirits.
00:53:19So, again,
00:53:21he takes an isolated event
00:53:23in Jesus' life
00:53:25and earthly ministry.
00:53:26He flattens it out
00:53:27through all eternity,
00:53:29makes it a normal occurrence
00:53:32for any Christian
00:53:33who, after all,
00:53:34is a little God
00:53:35and who is to have dominion
00:53:37over the earth
00:53:38and this person now,
00:53:40this believer now,
00:53:41is able to talk to the weather,
00:53:45the storm,
00:53:46the spirits behind the storms
00:53:48and get these evil spirits
00:53:50to obey him.
00:53:52And, you know,
00:53:53on many of Hobart's early tapes,
00:53:55he'll say,
00:53:55yeah, we were driving
00:53:56through the fog
00:53:57and we just rebuked the fog
00:53:59and it parted.
00:54:01And I can remember
00:54:02as a teenager
00:54:04trying to do that stuff myself.
00:54:07It didn't work.
00:54:09And, you know,
00:54:10when you hear Hobart,
00:54:11because he's your minister,
00:54:12you just think,
00:54:13well, somehow things
00:54:14don't work with me
00:54:15but they always worked with him.
00:54:17And he gives a couple of examples
00:54:19where they're driving 55,
00:54:2160 miles an hour
00:54:21down the highway.
00:54:22He and his wife June
00:54:24to a meeting
00:54:24and they're all locked in with fog
00:54:26and he just rebukes the fog.
00:54:28Well, there is another explanation
00:54:30that is you just drove out of it.
00:54:32You know, again,
00:54:33we have no empirical way
00:54:35to prove any of these things.
00:54:36It's just his word.
00:54:38I believe the account
00:54:39that happened with Jesus
00:54:40on the Sea of Galilee
00:54:41because that's in my Bible.
00:54:42But I don't believe the stories
00:54:44that Hobart tells of his life
00:54:46just because they're on his cassette tapes.
00:54:49And he gives other stories.
00:54:50He said,
00:54:50I've had to take control over snow,
00:54:54especially snow,
00:54:55living in northern Indiana
00:54:56and rebuke it.
00:54:57So they claim and rebuke
00:54:59and command and decree.
00:55:01And they're just a group
00:55:03of little gods walking around
00:55:06being able to control the weather.
00:55:09I do remember early on,
00:55:11not when I was 17,
00:55:13but maybe by the time
00:55:14I was 19 or 20 or 21,
00:55:17you know,
00:55:17I was reading my Bible
00:55:18and I would come across passages
00:55:20like Paul going to Rome
00:55:23in Acts 27.
00:55:24That was a terrific storm
00:55:26that could have easily
00:55:28taken everyone's life.
00:55:29And Paul never rebuked it.
00:55:32And that just always stuck in my mind.
00:55:35And of course,
00:55:36we got the most famous storm
00:55:38in the Bible
00:55:38and that's the storm
00:55:39with Jonah, the prophet.
00:55:41To me, it looks like
00:55:42God sent that storm.
00:55:44That was not an evil spirit
00:55:45behind that storm.
00:55:48With Paul's storm,
00:55:51it was just a storm.
00:55:52I mean, it's just weather.
00:55:54I'll tell you
00:55:55a personal testimony here.
00:55:57I'll never forget, John,
00:55:58one time when I was
00:55:59a minister up in Vermont,
00:56:01we lived in a little house
00:56:02in Paulette
00:56:03and I was sitting out
00:56:04on my front porch
00:56:05and there was a terrific
00:56:07lightning and wind
00:56:09and thunderstorm
00:56:10that came through.
00:56:12And I went out
00:56:13and sat on the porch,
00:56:14front porch,
00:56:15to listen to it
00:56:15and to watch it.
00:56:17And I must have been reading
00:56:19in the book of Psalms
00:56:20and I must have been
00:56:21in Psalm 29.
00:56:23And Psalm 29
00:56:24is a famous nature psalm
00:56:26and what it does
00:56:28is it calls
00:56:30the thunder
00:56:31and everything happening
00:56:32in the storm
00:56:33the voice of the Lord.
00:56:37That's what Psalm 29
00:56:38is all about
00:56:39and I knew that
00:56:39by that time in my life.
00:56:41And I went out there
00:56:42and just witnessed
00:56:43this is not an evil spirit.
00:56:46This is the power of God.
00:56:47The thunderstorm,
00:56:48the psalmist said,
00:56:49this is the voice
00:56:50of the Lord.
00:56:51And something else
00:56:53that I wondered about,
00:56:57Hobart talked about
00:56:58rebuking the rain,
00:57:01making the rain stop
00:57:03because you need
00:57:05to do something.
00:57:07If people want
00:57:08to go on their own
00:57:09and hear a story
00:57:11of Hobart's,
00:57:11he did a series of tapes
00:57:13early, early on
00:57:14on the gifts
00:57:15of the Spirit
00:57:15in 1 Corinthians 12.
00:57:18And on his tape
00:57:19on the gift
00:57:21of faith,
00:57:23the gift of faith,
00:57:25he tells an embarrassing
00:57:26account.
00:57:27He was willing
00:57:29to be a little more honest
00:57:30back in those days.
00:57:31He would never have done
00:57:31this later in his life.
00:57:33But he tells
00:57:34on this particular tape
00:57:36that just the day before
00:57:38they had had a wedding
00:57:40that he had officiated at
00:57:42and that everyone
00:57:44had gotten wet.
00:57:46And it's obvious
00:57:47from the way
00:57:48he tells the story
00:57:49that they had claimed
00:57:50that it wouldn't rain
00:57:51and they had rebuked
00:57:52the rain.
00:57:54And he just said
00:57:56he appreciated everyone
00:57:57getting wet with him
00:57:59because it obviously
00:58:00didn't work.
00:58:01And he's told
00:58:02other stories
00:58:03where he said
00:58:03he rebuked the rain
00:58:04and the last thing
00:58:05he grabbed before
00:58:06he left the house
00:58:06was his umbrella.
00:58:08And then he said,
00:58:08well, you know,
00:58:09because I acted
00:58:10in unbelief,
00:58:11you know why
00:58:11my prayer didn't work
00:58:13against the rain
00:58:14because I carried
00:58:14an umbrella.
00:58:15But I remember
00:58:17I guess maybe
00:58:19in my early 20s
00:58:20I was just barely
00:58:22smart enough
00:58:23to figure this out.
00:58:24I wasn't very bright
00:58:25at all.
00:58:26But I was barely
00:58:27smart enough
00:58:27to come up
00:58:28with this thought
00:58:29in my mind.
00:58:30Well, now wait a minute.
00:58:32What about the farmers
00:58:33in northern Indiana
00:58:35who desperately
00:58:36need the rain?
00:58:38I literally
00:58:39had this thought.
00:58:40What's more important,
00:58:41your wedding day
00:58:42and that there be
00:58:44no rain
00:58:44or the farmers
00:58:46and their crops
00:58:47that they really
00:58:48do need rain?
00:58:50And little thoughts
00:58:52like that
00:58:52would come into my mind
00:58:54and it would begin
00:58:56to make me think
00:58:57I think there's something
00:58:59about this weather stuff.
00:59:01I don't think
00:59:02that we have
00:59:03any authority
00:59:04over the rain
00:59:06or the fog
00:59:07or the snow
00:59:08or anything like that.
00:59:10I think that's just
00:59:11part of this whole
00:59:12product
00:59:12and offshoot
00:59:14of little gods,
00:59:16dominion,
00:59:17decree a thing,
00:59:18command G me,
00:59:20have the faith of God,
00:59:22sonship faith.
00:59:23We can have
00:59:24the same faith
00:59:25that Jesus had
00:59:26and we can demonstrate it
00:59:28by controlling
00:59:28the weather around us.
00:59:30You know,
00:59:30I'm actually glad
00:59:31that you triggered
00:59:32a lot of those memories
00:59:33with what you just said
00:59:34because I've totally
00:59:36forgotten about this
00:59:37but it is part
00:59:37of this theology.
00:59:39Branham had this series
00:59:40of sermons called
00:59:41Why Christ Speak
00:59:42and it was referring
00:59:43to a specific passage
00:59:44in the Old Testament
00:59:45and the model
00:59:48that's being presented
00:59:49is that
00:59:50because you have
00:59:51the word of faith,
00:59:52the spoken word,
00:59:53the rhema,
00:59:53whatever this is,
00:59:54you have the power
00:59:55to execute
00:59:56the commandments
00:59:58of God by your voice.
01:00:00Your voice is the command
01:00:01and then that morphed
01:00:03into different flavors
01:00:07of series of sermons.
01:00:09One of them is
01:00:09Speak to the Rock
01:00:11and in those sermons
01:00:13he goes into the weather.
01:00:15He starts talking about
01:00:16when the disciples
01:00:17were tossed by the storm,
01:00:19they went to the rock,
01:00:20they went to Jesus
01:00:21and then an audible voice spoke
01:00:24and the waters calmed,
01:00:25the weather calmed.
01:00:27And if you listen
01:00:29to what he says
01:00:29just in that one
01:00:31or two paragraphs,
01:00:32it is biblical,
01:00:33Jesus is speaking
01:00:34and the thing happens.
01:00:36But when you listen
01:00:36to the broader context,
01:00:38it's that you too
01:00:39can become like this.
01:00:40You can speak,
01:00:41you can command the weather.
01:00:42He doesn't explicitly say
01:00:44you can command the weather
01:00:45like Hobart did,
01:00:46but he's giving the framework
01:00:48that allows other ministers
01:00:49to build upon it
01:00:50so that they can go
01:00:51to that conclusion.
01:00:52So that's the perfect summary
01:00:54for what you're describing.
01:00:56It isn't that Hobart
01:00:58was copying Branham
01:01:00so much as he was building
01:01:01on that foundation
01:01:02that was laid
01:01:02and so was everybody else
01:01:05who was in this charismatic
01:01:06weirdness of these little
01:01:08Harry Potter sorcerer gods.
01:01:11But that's where this ended up.
01:01:12You literally had people
01:01:13that if you were to give them
01:01:15a magic wand
01:01:16and have them say,
01:01:18I can't even,
01:01:19Expectum, Platernum,
01:01:20whatever it is
01:01:20that Harry Potter says,
01:01:21it's no different
01:01:22than what Harry Potter is doing
01:01:24and yet they're condemning
01:01:25Harry Potter
01:01:26and all of the sorcery
01:01:27that you see on TV.
01:01:29What they're not telling you
01:01:30is what they're doing
01:01:31is really pretty much the same.
01:01:32They're just using
01:01:33the name Jesus
01:01:34instead of a wand.
01:01:36Yeah.
01:01:36And what I would just
01:01:37hope people do
01:01:38is forget about the fact
01:01:42that you can find
01:01:43that phrase
01:01:44somewhere in the verse.
01:01:45Just read your New Testament
01:01:46and do you really see
01:01:47anybody going around
01:01:49trying to control weather?
01:01:50I mean, look at Paul
01:01:51on his trip to Rome
01:01:52in Acts 27.
01:01:54Anybody who had faith
01:01:55and should have been able
01:01:56to control a storm,
01:01:58I would vote for the Apostle Paul
01:01:59and evidently
01:02:00it never crossed his mind
01:02:02to tell the storm
01:02:03just to stop.
01:02:04So when I read
01:02:05just good historical,
01:02:06biblical narrative
01:02:07that's in my Bible,
01:02:09I go, wait a minute,
01:02:10there's something not right.
01:02:11I think they pull verses
01:02:12out of their context
01:02:13trying to make them mean
01:02:14something they really don't mean.
01:02:15Absolutely.
01:02:17And for me,
01:02:19the final thought is this.
01:02:20If you watch
01:02:21the Harry Potter movies
01:02:22or read the books,
01:02:23I've seen the movies.
01:02:24I've actually not read the books,
01:02:26but the power
01:02:27that Harry Potter wields
01:02:28with that wand
01:02:29is actually greater
01:02:30than what they can actually do
01:02:31if they try to command
01:02:32the weather.
01:02:33So in the end,
01:02:34it's for nothing, right?
01:02:35So anyway,
01:02:36there's so much more
01:02:38I could say.
01:02:39Like I said,
01:02:39I'm having trouble
01:02:40containing it.
01:02:41So maybe next time
01:02:43we'll go deeper
01:02:43or in the future
01:02:45we'll go deeper.
01:02:45So thank you for doing this.
01:02:47Yeah, thanks, John.
01:02:48Well, if you've enjoyed our show
01:02:49and you want more information,
01:02:50you can check us out on the web.
01:02:52You can find us
01:02:52at william-branham.org.
01:02:54For more about the dark side
01:02:55of the New Apostolic Reformation,
01:02:57you can read
01:02:57Weaponized Religion
01:02:58from Christian Identity
01:03:00to the NAR.
01:03:01Available on Amazon,
01:03:02Kindle, and Audible.
01:03:11For more information,
01:03:41we'll see you next time.
01:04:11Weaponized Religion
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