- 7 minutes ago
Christina Ricci, Emmy Rossum, Jung Ho-yeon, Lily James, Rosario Dawson and Sandra Oh joined The Hollywood Reporter to talk about their respective projects.
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00:00I understood the, like, aggressive power of womanhood, and I was just, like, fascinated.
00:06Like, men, sometimes the whole thing is like, they know you don't want to have sex with them,
00:10but if they can trick you into it, then they blow.
00:12I just want to be in Star Trek so I can be in all the universes.
00:15You're really close.
00:17The first message after I watched Squid Game to director Hwang was,
00:22I am so sorry, and thank you so much for trusting me.
00:27I'm going to cry.
00:30Hi, and welcome to the Hollywood Reporter Roundtable series.
00:57I'm your host, Lacey Rose.
00:59Question for all of you.
01:01If we'd been a fly on the wall as each of you were preparing for your shows,
01:07what would we see you be doing right before a director called action?
01:13Oh, right before a director called action?
01:15Right before.
01:16Yeah, like, how do you lock into your characters?
01:18Lily, I feel like I heard something about maybe you had Pamela's voice in a...
01:23Oh yeah, I did.
01:25Well, I constantly had, I would actually forget to take my earbuds out and ruin my own performance with my white earbuds
01:31sticking out my ear because I'd have her voice constantly in my ear.
01:35Just pacing and listening and trying to stay in the zone of the feeling.
01:43At this time, more than ever, I've, like, sort of stayed in it the whole time, which is kind of exhausting.
01:49I bet.
01:51What about the rest of you?
01:52Well, my character has a very specific sort of, like, artifice always.
01:57So I would sort of just take a minute and connect to what she's actually feeling
02:02and then the artificial face or demeanor she would put on to make sure nobody would see that.
02:09And, like, how do you do that?
02:10That's cool.
02:11What do you mean?
02:15Very good.
02:16You just saw it right there.
02:18Yeah.
02:19Yeah.
02:20I don't know.
02:21Just, like, putting on...
02:23I mean, because my character always has this very, like, this, like, specific kind of fake smile.
02:28So I would do that.
02:29But always remembering what she's actually feeling.
02:32I think it's an interesting question because it's, in some ways, our most unconscious moment.
02:37Yeah.
02:38That's the moment you're least, hopefully, paying attention to yourself.
02:41So what are we doing?
02:43Yeah.
02:44I'm not exactly...
02:45It always feels different.
02:46It depends on the scene and the moment.
02:47You know, between DMZ and Dope Sick, it was, like, one, I was, like, felt like I was ugly crying all the time.
02:52And, you know, really just trying to connect to, sort of, you know, this bravado that Alma was trying to show as she was completely overwhelmed and over her head.
03:04But always with this very singular focus.
03:06And so it was just kind of, like, trying to grapple with that.
03:09Like, what does strength look like when you don't want to fight the way other people fight?
03:13And kind of checking in with that as she was maneuvering and kind of bluffing her way forward.
03:19And then with Dope Sick, it was, like, it's just an amalgamation of so many different characters.
03:23It was kind of, like, which one am I leaning into in that moment?
03:26And so a lot of it was really talking to Danny a lot and trying to have that backstory.
03:32And so it's interesting.
03:33Like, you know, sometimes you're really...
03:34It depends on the scene and the moment.
03:36And, you know, you work with just these different folks who have very different processes themselves.
03:40And, like, some people want to run lines, some people don't want to run lines, you know?
03:43And, like, they want to just kind of discover it in the moment.
03:45And, like, it's just...
03:46It's so grappling with that while still trying to keep the integrity of your character.
03:50It's always, I think, a really fun dance and keeps me very present.
03:53And I think that's the most critical.
03:54If you get too caught up in your head about what you're going to do and what your face is going to look like
03:58and your voice is going to sound like, sort of hit this intonation that you think you need to hit to make this scene make sense,
04:04like, you get too caught up in the artifice.
04:06But I think it's really fun when you're just really present and you're just really throwing that ball back and forth.
04:13Like, catching it and going, okay, this is what we're working with, you know?
04:16And, like, finding the textures and giving, I think, the editors and the director the opportunity to play with something themselves
04:23and not just making that choice for them.
04:26Sure.
04:27Yeah, I love that answer.
04:28What about you two?
04:29I try to not think anything.
04:31Like, just, I like to be on the set before we go into rehearsal and everything, but, like, just sitting there,
04:40but don't try to not talk or try to not think much.
04:44Even though someone trying to come and speak something with me, not, like, co-actors, like a staff,
04:50I'm just talking, I'm talking with them, but I'm not talking with them.
04:55Yeah.
04:56So, yeah, basically nothing, I think.
04:58Uh-huh.
04:59Is there music in your...
05:00No, no music.
05:01I just, like, on the way to the set in the car, I think I listen a lot of music, but, like, right before action, I just try to not think anything.
05:12Yeah.
05:13Because already I have my lines and I have my, kind of, like...
05:17Character.
05:18Yes, yes, yes.
05:19This was also the first thing you've done as an actress.
05:22Which is incredible.
05:23Which is incredible.
05:24And so deep and so beautiful.
05:27It's just, like, I don't know how to do it, so I just let it kind of happen.
05:34But you do.
05:35Yeah.
05:36You do.
05:37But, like, and then at the end, I think I realize that maybe that is my routine, but I don't have any, like, a purpose to make the routine, but I kind of naturally having my routine.
05:49Yeah.
05:50Yeah.
05:51Absolutely.
05:52So...
05:53It's, like, beginner's mind.
05:54Do you know what I mean?
05:55It takes a long time to basically understand that you have to get to the space of, like, nothing is not the correct word, but just presence or just openness or...
06:04You can call it a bunch of things.
06:06Yeah.
06:07But I think, ultimately, everyone here works to get to that point, and then you let it play.
06:13Look how I just pointed at you.
06:16I feel like, for me, we didn't cross-board the show.
06:24So, I mean, I played a character in kind of, like, the mythological stories all about her over the course of, like, 55 years.
06:33So, for me, it was very much, like, waking up on the day and remembering what physical gate I'm in, what kind of vocal artifice I'm in, what level of kind of control I have in my life and in the scene.
06:48And then I work with a lot of, like, weird breath patterns that will encourage, like, immediate internal response so that I don't overthink.
06:57So, I kind of, like, will reverse engineer, like, some kind of situation in my body which causes the intensity of whatever feeling I'm looking for.
07:07So that that can just set me on the path to start the scene so I'm not overthinking it, but I'm fully embodying it in that moment.
07:14And I also had, I'm an audio person and I'm a smell person, not really a visual person.
07:22So I had a different scent and perfume for every era or thing.
07:27And so I would remember, you know, my physical gate based on, like, how something smelled to me.
07:33I was in this for many, I was in this for a long time.
07:36You were?
07:37So it was, yeah, it was fun.
07:39And each character you play requires a different moment right before, you know?
07:44Yeah.
07:45And it is interesting what you were saying, like, having everything gone so that you can just be present and react and connect.
07:50And with me, with the character I play in Yellowjackets, it was all about me killing that.
07:55Because she could never have a genuine reaction unless she was completely alone.
08:00So it would literally be like, and this is how she wants to be seen this entire time.
08:06So no matter what happens, like, because I would have scenes where I would be, I'd forget and be present and react and just be like, yeah, that wasn't right.
08:13Because she never would let that happen.
08:15Yeah.
08:16So I've also heard you say when you would put on the wig and the glasses that people would treat you differently.
08:22Yeah.
08:23It was amazing.
08:24It was great for me as an actress because I was like, this is what this woman's been putting up with her entire life.
08:27Yes, you'd be like a gnarled piece of, like, anger.
08:30So what would people do?
08:31And how would they be like, oh, Misty.
08:34And I'd just be like, no, it's still me.
08:37I will still kill you.
08:39I just happen to have this wig on.
08:41So do you feel like just because of the physical transformation and what we knew Misty to be, that people would treat you like Misty?
08:48It's literally just people seeing a woman who looks like that.
08:51Mmm.
08:52Honestly.
08:53They feel they can treat herself that way.
08:55You see a woman that's that sort of dismissible because she has no social currency.
09:00She's not hot.
09:01Yeah.
09:02She's not, like, powerful.
09:03I'm really little.
09:04You know, I'm wearing, like, pastel kitten things and, like, dorky glasses.
09:07Misty from third period Spanish.
09:09Right.
09:10I love that line.
09:11And so they, like, literally people's natural reaction to seeing someone like that is to give them a hard time, which is amazing because I have never been on a set where people felt so free to give me a hard time before.
09:24And, yeah.
09:25Wow.
09:26It's really incredible.
09:27And the younger actress had the exact same experience.
09:29Wow.
09:30So interesting.
09:31I'm curious for both Lily and Emmy who had such transformations for these characters, if you experienced any of that, too.
09:40I don't know.
09:41I feel like with this character, there's such a level of, I mean, she's like a living and breathing piece of art.
09:47Yeah.
09:48She's a performance artist.
09:49So I am somebody who does not kind of covet that attention as I walk down the street.
09:54But putting in, being in a different body, I walked across the universal lot in everything.
10:01Oh, that's interesting.
10:02And I saw the way business people, people on the lot looked at me.
10:07And it was the first time that I understood the power of like being in an ultra curated hyper fem, I'm doing this, but like in this body.
10:19And I weirdly felt incredibly safe in my body that it was so much that people didn't almost know where to look.
10:28And it was, it really like, I understood the like aggressive power of womanhood.
10:34And I was like, I think that's, I mean, when I was 13, I saw her billboard and was like, I certainly did not understand my own feminine power at that moment.
10:43And I was just like fascinated, like, who is that?
10:46What is that?
10:47I want some of that.
10:48Yeah.
10:49And I also definitely felt that like, because it was so not me, there was so much I put on that I felt so brave in like my sexuality or my, because, because I wasn't feeling vulnerable because it literally wasn't me.
11:01Yes.
11:02So it was like, I had this like strength of this like armor, you know, that allowed me to be like, I didn't even know maybe more in my body, or at least maybe amongst more people, you know, with eyes on me that aren't like, you know, like partner at all.
11:18So this idea of, of all the sort of pieces to getting to that place, I mean, I imagine it's many, many, many hours in a hair and makeup chair.
11:29But is there a moment in that process where you sort of locked into these characters?
11:36Maybe it's the hair, maybe it's the boobs, maybe it's the finished package.
11:41Did you, was that, was there a point along the way?
11:46And how many hours are you sitting in that chair?
11:50Hours.
11:51Some days were eight for me.
11:53Oh my God.
11:54That's longer than I had.
11:55Because you, it's incredible how we see you so young and then we see you much older and you're, is it, she's in her fifties or something?
12:04We don't believe in age.
12:06We don't believe in age.
12:07And it's so remarkable seeing that change in you, not only how they did it physically, but in you and your attitude and your voice.
12:13It was so cool.
12:14I think, and I think we work with the same dialect coach too.
12:18Oh, nice, Liz.
12:19Liz, who I, who we love and I've worked with since I'm a child.
12:22For me, every character starts from the vocal place and having recordings to actually listen to and analyze.
12:29And there's so many of the same kind of mythological stories she's told about herself.
12:34So I would not only listen to them, but I would write them down and then write the cadences phonetically and start to study kind of how I could understand the psychology a little bit.
12:47Especially of someone who wants to be a mystery.
12:50For me, it was this very sacred process.
12:53Yeah, the voice was pretty key.
12:55I found like the note on the piano because it was such a different pitch.
12:58So I could almost relate to it from a singing point of view.
13:01And I still know what you mean about the psychology of it because I found that her voice, she spoke really, really fast and then didn't even really pause to breathe before.
13:09And I felt that where you're like, you feel like you really want to get your point across, but maybe you're not being given time or people aren't listening.
13:15So I felt there was a lot of, there was ways you could connect to the patterns of the speech in there.
13:20But I definitely, I always feel the question fitting is a moment where you go, oh, this is always how I like stand and feel.
13:27And then with this, that was like on acid.
13:30It was really the camera test where I was like, finally, everything kind of could come together.
13:35I also think there's some liberation in like the moment that they spin you around with a big reveal when you don't, I mean, I did not recognize myself.
13:44I've never, I mean, sometimes I have two contact lenses in each eye.
13:48Like it's not even my ear lobes.
13:49Like there's nothing of me that I can see.
13:51Wow.
13:52So I just remember at first I was scared because I didn't see myself at all.
13:57Like I was like, oh God, where have I gone?
13:59Like I'm not there anymore.
14:01And then I felt this like, I'm not there anymore.
14:04I can do anything, any judgment.
14:08I can be, I can go as far as the world will let me go because it's not, it's not me anymore.
14:16I love that.
14:17How much do you all know about what's to come for your characters?
14:23Are you people who are asking a lot of questions or are you, do you want to sort of let these things ride out and figure it out as you go along?
14:32Sort of who are you as, as actors?
14:34Sorry, you seem like you're.
14:35You seem like a mink.
14:36Excuse me, it's just a different thing.
14:38Like I did film for so long before I got into doing shows and like it was such a different process to agree to do something before you've read everything.
14:47Oh.
14:48I think that's so weird.
14:50Yeah.
14:51It's really weird.
14:52It's really weird.
14:53It was really hard for me on this show.
14:55I had a really hard time not knowing and not being able to know.
14:58Oh, I can imagine.
15:00Yeah.
15:01And I still grapple, I mean I think up until the very end I sort of grappled with a little
15:05bit of, because with a movie you know everything so then you can sit with it and decide exactly,
15:12like okay, so this I got it.
15:13I've got a conclusion.
15:15Here's my conclusion.
15:16But with TV things, your character all of a sudden does things, so you're like I, really?
15:23Even the first, the second episode where Misty goes on a date and I was like I would not have
15:31thought that she had any interest in men at this point.
15:33Well, okay.
15:34You know, and it's just, yeah, it was very unnerving for me and it sort of feels like a
15:39different skill to sort of live or to like have an open-ended sort of, I don't know.
15:45Well, you also then I can appreciate what your arc is.
15:48Like you can kind of make certain decisions.
15:51And I, you know, there was a film that I was going to do and then I came to the table read
15:56and they changed my character.
15:58And I walked away from the film.
15:59I was like, this is not what I signed a contract for.
16:02You've broken our contract.
16:03Like this is totally different.
16:05And then I remember like being on a show and they made that pivot and I was like, oh,
16:08I can't, I'm already filming this.
16:10Nothing you can do.
16:11You know?
16:12And then there's certain things like battles that you have to create where,
16:15it's like, you know, then there's different directors who come in and like different
16:19crews.
16:20And so the style and things that they play with and then different, you know, writers
16:23that come on board and they decide certain things about the language that your character
16:27uses and how they use it.
16:28And then you have to fight for your character now.
16:30Like I don't necessarily know where this is going ultimately, but I, I've lived in this
16:34person long enough to know that this dishonors like who she is and like have that wherewithal
16:41to do so.
16:42But like, and then wondering like if I hadn't had so much work behind me that I wouldn't
16:48have, where would I be to fight for this?
16:50Like because there's also like the ability to have that creative license and control
16:55and to be able to put your foot down about certain things that you want to honor about
16:59someone or represent about someone and like that grapple like that, you know, and you,
17:03I've seen that with, you know, maybe younger actors or people who are more novices in the
17:07space.
17:08And so they feel like something is really wrong and you know it because you're embodying it.
17:12But you're also doing, you know, you're doing Star Wars stuff.
17:15You're doing Marvel stuff.
17:16I mean, when, when they're sort of that big and that mechanical of an operation, like can
17:21you still do that?
17:22Do you still have the power?
17:24Do you have to sort of seed that?
17:26I mean, I, again, I feel really lucky that I didn't get into a lot of those spaces until
17:30after I had been working with a lot of other people.
17:33And like when you're on a set with Spike Lee at 18 and you're fighting for your character
17:37and like being taught to do so because he was teaching me to do that as well, which I thought
17:41was really cool.
17:42And I look back on, you know, in the two films I did with him, how much I learned from him.
17:48And so many other people, like I was very specific about directors that I wanted to work with
17:52in certain kind of, even recognizing the characters might be girlfriend roles or like character,
17:58like story devices and like always working really, really hard to make that person significant,
18:04to make that person be real.
18:06I think that's just meant a lot to me that everyone on screen is real and they have to be
18:11no matter how fantastical the situation is.
18:13You really want to ground them in a way that, because you never know what connects to people.
18:17Even in like the most insane sci-fi situation, like you're still talking in Star Wars.
18:23You're talking about light and dark and life choices and that you don't just make it once
18:27and then you don't have to make it again.
18:29You have to keep grappling with that.
18:31And like, that's why those stories continue for generations because the people who play them,
18:35like I can tell you Mark Hamill was a true believer from the beginning.
18:38Right.
18:39You know, even when everyone else was like,
18:41he was like right there.
18:42I was like, yes, second movie Jedi is going to be a puppet.
18:45Let's go.
18:47And you know, and it's like, those are the people that I look at and go,
18:50this is, this is what makes this last beyond us.
18:54You know, like this is our legacy that we leave behind for people.
18:57And storytelling is our greatest gift as a human race.
19:01I think that's, I think that's right.
19:03Christina, I've heard you talk about the younger actors on your show,
19:07sort of having that confidence and you being particularly sort of impressed.
19:11Perhaps that wasn't how you once felt.
19:14And I'm curious sort of about that experience.
19:16Well, I think I was more speaking in general about how wonderful I think it is
19:22that now younger actresses are in a place where they can create boundaries for themselves
19:29and limits and I will do this and I won't do that.
19:33And they're not difficult.
19:34They are just, you know, creating their boundaries.
19:37And there's, I've noticed with most of the younger women that I've worked with,
19:44there's less of this sense of, I was always afraid of being fired constantly.
19:48I was always afraid I was going to get fired.
19:50And like still even now I have to be like, it's okay, you are not going to get fired.
19:54You can tell them.
19:56So I was just really amazed and impressed by that and how wonderful that is now.
20:05You see young women saying, I'm not comfortable doing that intimate scene.
20:11I am comfortable with doing this much.
20:13Or I don't like the, you know, really speaking up and saying that is not how I need to work.
20:19And just things that at their age I just would not have felt confident enough to do.
20:25And I think the industry would have been like not accepting of it at all.
20:30It's changed.
20:31It has changed.
20:32It's definitely changed.
20:33It's great hearing from older actresses and with different experiences talk about what that journey was.
20:38It's definitely informed me and certain choices I made on set.
20:41But like we're just a different generation.
20:43Like growing up and starting acting at 15, you know, I definitely always felt like I was going to be fired.
20:48Like, you know, and that this was a grown up world.
20:50You know, when I was a kid, it was a grown up world.
20:53There were Saturday morning cartoons.
20:54That was it.
20:55You know, and like it was this with the way that the world exists now.
21:00Young people have a creative license and a sense of entitlement that I actually think is quite magnificent.
21:06Because they don't expect to grow up and have a voice.
21:09They expect to have a voice right now.
21:11And it's been really beautiful to see how that's transformed in these years of being on sets.
21:15Like it is a, I'm like we have an intimacy director.
21:18I know.
21:19Like we're going to talk about this stuff before.
21:21Like there was, that was like not even available as an idea.
21:25And so I think like those types of improvements are remarkable and really exciting to be a part of.
21:32Yeah.
21:33It's taken a long time at least for me and I think for a lot of us.
21:36It's, especially with television, I feel like the way that you get that voice, at least the way that I've come up, is to eventually get a producer credit.
21:45So if you really want to have control over your character and to be in the room while that's either being developed or to have a say, it's taken me a long time to get that credit.
21:55So for both the chair and the final season of Killing Eve, it was like, it's exactly that.
22:01There are new people coming in all the time.
22:04You don't, let me help you or let me actually have a title.
22:10It's ridiculous.
22:11But sometimes you do need the protection.
22:13You have to have the boundary and the protection of a title to say, I get to be in this room because someone negotiated for me.
22:20No, it's also because what I'm interested in is also growing and developing the sisterhood because as things are shifting and the opportunities are growing, people need to be developed.
22:31Do you know what I mean?
22:32It's not just lip service, right?
22:33And I'm talking about diversity in all ways where I'm saying how certain things are kind of working and certain things are not working.
22:40And what I feel ultimately is the slow development where you find the person who works, find the person who doesn't work.
22:47So that's not going to work.
22:48So it doesn't just mean that in this time of openness because we want to continue it, right?
22:57It's not going to continue.
22:59If it's not quality.
23:00If it's not quality.
23:01If it's not quality.
23:02And so to be able to have, let's say, the power to be able to create the character or to create a constant dialogue with the writers because you don't always get that.
23:15Unless you fight for it in a way, you know, you could fight for it beforehand or you could fight for it during.
23:21Do you know what I mean?
23:22Because it is, I would say, in television, if you're doing a play or if you're doing a film, I think you have that time to speak to a director to be able to develop your character, right?
23:41But television, you're really actually in charge.
23:44And hopefully you have, and I think this is tougher and tougher now, a consistency with the voice in television.
23:51That you have a consistent creative voice that has continuity.
23:56And that doesn't also happen.
23:58But I'm interested in Ho Young.
24:00So director Hwang, right?
24:02Did he direct all of them?
24:04Yeah.
24:05Oh, that's amazing.
24:06That's amazing.
24:07So great.
24:08My experience was very different, like normal television series.
24:12Because director Hwang used to be a movie director and the script was just like fully there.
24:19And then we know what to do.
24:21And director Hwang, exactly, he's like a person who has always planned.
24:26Like he wants the path that we have to go.
24:31There is always like a path that he wants us to go.
24:34Yeah.
24:35So for me, I was lucky, I think, that I don't have that kind of problem while filming the show.
24:44But I heard, I thought that I was surprised.
24:47Because I thought Hollywood television, like a system could be different from Korea.
24:53Because like, it's just same.
24:55That's what I've heard from my friends who did like TV shows in Korea.
24:59I think it's different.
25:00You guys have all your scripts.
25:01So I just felt like immediately that was different.
25:03Oh, no, like it's after Netflix came in, there are series that has fully done script.
25:12You created, I mean, you had journals and you created an internal life for this character.
25:17Is that right?
25:18What would you write down?
25:19What would you sort of create for her that wasn't in the script?
25:23No, it was based, based on the script, but I just extended the story and then I just extended the experience by writing down some kind of like a smell or like a physical, like things or like emotions.
25:38If I was there like at that moment and then I'm just wrote down the diary of the day that happened.
25:46So yeah, it's more like extending, not kind of making up the story.
25:51But like I added something, but it's just like inside me, maybe it's right, maybe it's wrong, but for me it's right.
25:58Sure.
25:59But I think that's.
26:00I like having those secrets too, those things that are, that you don't need to tell, you know, your director or your producer.
26:07Those are your private secrets of like what you think you had for lunch or what you cried about that morning or those tender things.
26:14So your, your, your backstory can be private too.
26:17Yeah.
26:18That can be your own.
26:19And even if somebody thinks, you know, somebody is like, oh, well, you know, she was probably X.
26:23Just like, oh.
26:24Uh huh.
26:25Not, not, not for me.
26:28Not in my heart.
26:29Yeah.
26:30And sometimes I also think like I've had both experiences.
26:32I've had the experience where like, you know, I would discover things about, you know, you'd open a script and something would be wildly different.
26:39And at first you're like, wait, that can't be because that doesn't track with, you know, what I've been doing the whole time.
26:45And then it's going to happen anyway.
26:47So then it's a challenge to yourself of, okay, well, how can I make this track?
26:52How can I surprise?
26:53There are things about, you know, ourselves that surprise us or reactions that surprise us certainly.
26:58And so it's finding those moments of kind of the script is confronting you with something.
27:04And I mean, unless it feels so totally wrong or you don't feel like you can pull it off, I think sometimes it is an opportunity.
27:12Yeah.
27:13I would find that too.
27:14Like, okay, what would she be feeling to make this, to actually behave in this way?
27:19I mean, I had that a lot on Yellow Jackets just because the character sometimes would do things that I just had no, like I was saying, the date that she went on.
27:29And I just really was like after, at that point, after rejection for 30 years and nobody, no men even look at her, like would she really be this invested in finding love?
27:41Mm-hmm.
27:42So I had to really kind of take the whole scene and find a way, find a motivation or a perspective from the, that felt true to the character.
27:53So I decided to make it very predatory.
27:55Her whole thing is like, you know how the way, like men, sometimes the whole thing is like, they know you don't want to have sex with them, but if they can trick you into it, then they won't.
28:04So for me, I was like, well, that's what Misty's doing.
28:08She knows this guy does not want to be with her, but if she can trick him into actually having sex with her, then she's won.
28:15And then you take, well, so what would be her manipulation?
28:19Well, she's going to play the guilt, guilt card and manipulation and that she's genuinely wants this man.
28:26And then I was able to do it because it made sense to me.
28:29She needs strong vision for something, for a dramaturgical arc because what you're saying, actually, I don't mind that because it's so early, that date.
28:40Yeah.
28:41Do you know what I mean?
28:42And you're still setting her character up, right?
28:43And it's fine, too, because if people, because a lot of people have said, you know, I felt so bad for her.
28:47And it's like, well, then she was doing a good job manipulating her.
28:50You know, it's fine if that's how she's, because it is very early.
28:56So if you do feel bad for her in that moment, there's so much more, there's enough room for you to realize that she's full of, full of crap.
29:03I'm curious, you talked about having the confidence to speak up that comes with experience, that comes with, you know, excellence.
29:12What are those times?
29:14What are the things that you have actually felt like you needed to fight for and successfully did it?
29:21Oh, the script.
29:22The script.
29:23Absolutely.
29:24Yeah.
29:25Number one is the script, because that's the thing that we work with.
29:28It's your character, your character's arc, right?
29:30And because in television, you will know this more than a variety of directors who are going to come on, that honestly, you have to catch them up to speed.
29:40Totally.
29:41Do you know what I mean?
29:42So if they have the same line that you are reading, then there's less explanation to have
29:47to just explain to you where I'm at, because we're walking on the same line.
29:52But it's what your arc is as your character is the most important thing.
29:57Sure.
29:58I don't always just only have opinions about my character, though.
30:00I talk about everything, because I love it.
30:02I love it.
30:03I love filmmaking.
30:04I love storytelling.
30:05And sometimes people miss stuff.
30:08I agree, yeah.
30:09It's really simple things.
30:11Even just, I was working on something, and it was a robot.
30:13And I was like, I don't know that a robot would say never.
30:16It's very factual.
30:17And sometimes you just miss those certain things.
30:19And it was a process of like, again, I actually go back to Spike on this, because I remember on He Got Game and watching how much,
30:28like, he does a lot of rehearsal, which is something not everybody does.
30:32And I'm really glad I started there, because it's so hit the ground running on so many other projects.
30:38They just do not make that time, and he is really specific about that.
30:42And so I learned that that is where you get to play with it.
30:45Like, he is not super attached to the script at that point.
30:47He's like, let's see where it goes.
30:48Like, I want to know.
30:49But once we start shooting, he's out of there by seven to go to the game.
30:53So like, there is no, like, maybe I try it.
30:55Like, no, you should have said that before.
30:56And I would have storyboarded it and made the time for it, but now there's no time for it.
30:59So like, no.
31:00So I remember, you know, when I got to 20th Time, I got to 25th Hour.
31:03And I'm working with Ed Norton, who's like wanting to write stuff and doing all this kind of things.
31:07I was like, this is your sweet spot, dude.
31:08So you figure out those fights with folks.
31:10Like, who is that visionary that you can grapple with and you can collaborate with?
31:15Because sometimes people, like, don't.
31:17Like, that's the frightening thing.
31:19Like, I've definitely been with people who's like, their, like, direction is like, can you just move your head like this?
31:25Like, Rosie Perez would do only black people do that.
31:27Make your eyes look less crazy.
31:28Did you just say that?
31:29Oh, my God.
31:30Your eyes are already a little crazy.
31:32So just make them look less crazy for this.
31:34That's ridiculous.
31:35I was like, oh, my God.
31:36Thanks.
31:37I'll take that notes apart.
31:38That's a tough one.
31:39Actually, that would be hilarious.
31:40What is the toughest direction you've...
31:42Can you make your eyes less crazy?
31:44Oh, my God.
31:45That's terrible.
31:46I'm so sorry.
31:47It's terrible.
31:48It really is.
31:49But it's to your point.
31:50That sometimes...
31:51And that's more frightening.
31:52Sometimes that's what you get.
31:53It's like, you're a terrible person, but I'm a communicator.
31:55But also, more importantly, like...
31:56And you're meant to be a director.
31:57Yeah.
31:58But also, more importantly, like, oh, my God.
32:00Like, you're the helm of this project.
32:01Like, we're in danger.
32:02It was like, you know, I see bloods washing.
32:04And I'm looking at everyone who's like putting their heart, blood, sweat, and tears into this
32:09and really, like, going, okay, how do we work with this person who clearly doesn't care
32:14in that scene, who has a very different agenda than I can tell everyone else here has?
32:19And, you know, I feel really lucky that it feels like most of the people, most of the
32:23projects that I've worked on, people really just love.
32:26That's great.
32:27We love what we do.
32:28Sure.
32:29And we should.
32:30I feel that the opportunity also for women to raise their hand now and say, I'd like to
32:35have a production company.
32:36I'd like to have a deal at a studio.
32:38I think that I've spent 10, oh, way over 10,000 hours reading scripts.
32:42And I think I have a, I think I would like to, I mean, which is what I did, which is the
32:47inception of this show.
32:48I spent, like, four and a half years of my life just doing this.
32:51So basically, a year for every episode.
32:55I think, you know, the opportunity to, like, have a company that's owned and operated by women
33:00where you get to read all day long and get to read playwrights and read ideas and talk
33:06about, like, how can we use this platform to elevate voices that didn't get an opportunity
33:12before?
33:13How can we work with kind people?
33:14They like to work really hard and have fun like us.
33:16Yeah.
33:17How can we, how can we read things and say, like, what is the role of femininity in this?
33:21What are we saying about women?
33:23And then what are we saying about the world, about where we are now?
33:26How are we holding a mirror to ourself?
33:28What's the urgency in this story?
33:30Yeah.
33:31And then you get to do it.
33:32Yeah, that's great.
33:33Yeah.
33:34It's pretty, it's kind of what, it doesn't really happen.
33:37It's kind of...
33:38And it's happening.
33:39I know.
33:40And it's happening more and more.
33:41That's your point.
33:42And it does take people to just raise their hand and say, I'd like to do this.
33:46Yeah, but that's true.
33:47I'm going to do this.
33:48I found, like, in a strange way, like, at work, and I think it's because of how much you
33:55love it, I'm much more articulate and forceful, especially when it comes to my character
34:00of the story, I will not let it go.
34:02Whereas in life, I wish I was as, had such good boundaries and stuff.
34:06Because, and I agree that if you find someone like Han, Pam, and Tommy, the writer and I,
34:11we were speaking and butting heads and I was, and the producers too.
34:15I mean, and that side got a little hard because sometimes it was taking over the kind of behind
34:19the scenes discussions about how much I wanted certain things to be in the right place and
34:24the intentions to be right.
34:26And, but as long as someone's listening to you and not just like, I can tell when they're
34:30smiling and nodding too, like the actress, but when that does feel like an open communication
34:36and you're being heard, it's just like, you know, it's so exciting.
34:41And I almost feel better in that work, which is, I bet way different than, you know, people
34:47would have said 10 years ago, women would have said.
34:49I think that's probably, do you feel like speaking up has ever cost you work?
34:54Do you worry about that?
34:56Or is the world changed so much that that's no longer a thought?
35:00I had a really hard time with that when I was younger.
35:02You did.
35:03And I saw that people did not want to work with me again because I was very, very upfront
35:10and open and opinionated to the point where it was sort of like, maybe we can say this
35:14in another way sometimes, same breath and come back, which I learned to do.
35:21But I was so opinionated and so sure I was right about my character sometimes that I think
35:28that it did sort of affect me a little bit negatively, but I have, but at the same time,
35:33now I am older, I am not quite as aggressive.
35:37And there is more of an openness to like, this will be a collaborative process.
35:41So, and I think even my aggressiveness probably came from the fact that I knew I was not going
35:46to be listened to, you know, I kind of expected to be dismissed beforehand.
35:51So that's probably why I never really, I couldn't take the heat off.
35:57But now I, but now it feels very, very different.
36:00I think that relates to what you were just also speaking about working with kind people.
36:04I think, especially starting in this industry, I was definitely seeing some very bad behavior
36:08rewarded across the board regularly.
36:11And it feeling like that was never, ever going to change.
36:13And some of those folks who were gatekeepers of our culture and gatekeepers of like what
36:18got green lit or not made it, made you naturally cautious.
36:23And, and, you know, because I love what I do and I don't want to be stopped from doing that
36:28because I pissed the wrong guy off.
36:31Yep.
36:32Seeing that shift in the industry and audiences and just sort of the world that we're existing
36:37in right now that is no longer rewarding that in the same way, as well as that growth
36:41of the feminine.
36:42You know, like being, you know, someone like Danny Strong has worked for years to be able
36:46to make a dope sick of the way that he wants to be able to tell it in such a sharp, outrageous way.
36:52And it's so brilliant to be able to see him do that.
36:55And I feel like a lot of men have had that ability to do that for a really long time,
36:58to be on DMZ and see Ava have that exact same position and like how she populates the entire
37:04crew and the vision that she has starting, you know, creating Array now going,
37:08if you're going to be posting black boxes, here are the folks that you can hire behind
37:12the camera.
37:13Here's a list.
37:14There's no longer an excuse anymore for you saying that you want to do these things,
37:17but you don't know how or it's too difficult.
37:19Here you go.
37:20We've waited a long time to see that, you know, and I feel really lucky.
37:25I've worked with some really great directors, most of them though male.
37:28Yeah.
37:29And that's not a bad thing necessarily, but like to see these women getting the space
37:33and how it changes things.
37:34It really does change the environment.
37:36It changes the dialogue.
37:38It changes the space.
37:39We've also seen other changes.
37:40Sandra, I've heard you say with the chair, you open that script and you saw your character's
37:46name and it spoke volumes to you about how much has sort of changed over the course of
37:50your career.
37:51Can you speak to that?
37:52I mean, speak to the significance of it and, you know, how much that has been different
37:59over the course of your career?
38:01Ultimately, change is slow.
38:04Do you know what I mean?
38:05I think that's the biggest thing after the past, like, whatever, how many years we've
38:08been doing this.
38:09It's like, it's slow and when it really happens, it has to happen in such a deep way.
38:15So, yes, when I first got the pilot of the chair, I opened it up and the character's
38:22name is Jiyeon Kim.
38:24That's the first time I played a character who's Korean, who has a Korean name.
38:29So, every single person in that cast has to call me Jiyeon.
38:34So, has to learn it, has to go through it, will say it wrong.
38:37That's okay.
38:38Let's get it right.
38:39Let's keep on trying to get it right.
38:40Right?
38:41Because it's like, because I will help you with that.
38:44It's also part of our job, but I'll help you with that.
38:49Because it's about getting to the point of normalizing it.
38:53That name, it meant something to me.
38:55It's great if it doesn't mean anything to younger people.
38:58That if it's normalized, which is the thing that we're talking about, how younger people
39:02will come on the set.
39:03And I feel like, oh, it's so interesting.
39:05Where is your confidence coming from?
39:07Also, I will say that side by side is development.
39:10That's all I can say.
39:12It's like when you really want to be able to do change and really want to make quality.
39:16And if you have that space to, if you actually have the title, or even if you don't have that
39:21title, how are you leading on set?
39:23I think that's very important.
39:25But so hand in hand with that, the opportunity to be able to set the tone on a show is really
39:31super important.
39:32And then to have the character and everyone having to call me, you know, Professor Kim,
39:37it was great.
39:38Uh-huh.
39:39Uh-huh.
39:40It's hugely powerful.
39:41Lily and Emmy, I want to turn to you with your experiences.
39:46I believe you went into Pam and Tommy sort of thinking you would, at the very least,
39:52speak to Pamela Anderson and that didn't ultimately happen.
39:57I'm sort of curious what that process was for you and how it then informs how you become
40:05and inhabit this woman and how it changes it and sort of not, I mean, is it perhaps a
40:10blessing in disguise to not have her in your head?
40:14Or maybe she still is.
40:16You know, that was really, really difficult, honestly, particularly given what the show is
40:21about.
40:22And I really, truly believed she would be involved.
40:25And so once that wasn't going to be the case and she chose not to be, that was, I battled
40:32a lot with everything about the show really, you know, from the challenge as an actor, from
40:37what I was trying to say and my reasons personally for why I wanted to explore the things within
40:42it.
40:43And it felt deeply personal.
40:46But then I think that, I think that's why I became fiercely protective.
40:53And there were a lot of things I actually changed ultimately about moments of the show when,
40:59because I never wanted it to be, I mean, it starts off more salacious, but I never wanted
41:02it to be like we were taking advantage or for the sake of something there was a load of sex.
41:07And I really, and I wasn't a producer, but I was listened to, but it's made me realize
41:12I always want to be a producer.
41:13And I've done that once and it was just such a gift to really, really have that voice.
41:19Because I also love, I love doing the acting, but I loved being involved in the edit and figuring
41:25it out.
41:26That's a whole nother process that I, I can't let it go.
41:28I can't just stop thinking and go, okay, next job.
41:30I'm like still like itching to know and hear how it's growing and how it's taking shape.
41:37I felt like I, in the end, just had to work so hard in myself to like know my heart and
41:42my intentions and take care of her in it.
41:45And I wish it had been different for sure, but I, but I certainly learned a lot.
41:50Yeah.
41:51Yeah.
41:52I think it's challenging.
41:53I think whether or not you have the express blessing of the person that you're kind of
41:58portraying a version of, every single moment you're on screen in this, you are instilling
42:04tremendous empathy and kindness and depth, and you are shepherding this woman's story.
42:11I didn't know anything about Pamela's story.
42:13So to watch your transformation and commitment and the depth that you brought to it is tremendous.
42:18There's validity in that.
42:20Sure.
42:21And, and your process is what you, you, you did meet with Angelina.
42:25Yes.
42:26And how does that then inform you?
42:29Is she sort of in your head?
42:30You have tremendous tenderness for every character and you've, you've researched them
42:35and read everything and listened to everything by the time you're sitting across from them.
42:39Yep.
42:40And her first words to me were, so why do you have such a hard on to play me?
42:44What did you say?
42:46That's exactly why.
42:47Mm-hmm.
42:48Because you're a force.
42:49Mm-hmm.
42:50And because you're uncompromising.
42:51Uh-huh.
42:52Because you're a rebel.
42:53You're a renegade.
42:54Yep, yep, yep.
42:55And because you're in the power position in every room you walk into.
42:58Yeah.
42:59And I think for me, those questions of like, who has the right to tell the story?
43:05That is, I think, at the crux of Angeline, the show Angeline.
43:10And in the end, hopefully when we land the plane, it's fully steeped in kind of more mystery
43:18and her self-mythology.
43:20Because ultimately, I mean, Pam and Tommy also, not a biopic.
43:24There's a talking penis.
43:25Right.
43:26It's not a documentary, right?
43:27No, it's not.
43:28Right.
43:29It's just our interpretation.
43:30It's very stylized.
43:31Yeah.
43:32Emotional impression.
43:33Gaining empathy through comedy at times, too, you know, which is a great tool if you
43:36can make people laugh.
43:38And yeah, I always reminded myself, like, we're not saying this is the final say.
43:42Right.
43:43I mean, it's just purely our creation based on the script that you hope they've done a huge
43:47amount of work on.
43:48And then, you know, all the research that we do.
43:50And I think any time that you have the opportunity to bring empathy or kindness to something
43:55and to show an audience, maybe you thought one way about Pam or Angeline, but like, what
44:00about this?
44:01What about this idea?
44:02Even if we don't get it right, what about this?
44:04Like, I think it's really human and I think your work is just beautiful.
44:08Like a contribution rather than a final word or say.
44:11It's like just a...
44:12It's a love letter to them.
44:13It's a love letter to an icon and to a woman whose story you respect and admire.
44:18And a reframing for the culture, which I think is also important.
44:23I want to turn to you, Ho-yeon.
44:25This is a project you decided you wanted to act.
44:29You put yourself on tape, then you fly to Korea and you do this thing, which I suspect
44:36you have a sense that this is something that is good, but I suspect you didn't necessarily
44:41have had any inclination this was going to be the sort of biggest show in the world.
44:47Yeah, that was a lucky guess.
44:50Ever.
44:51You are shot out of a cannon.
44:52Take me back to, or take all of us back to what it was like right before this show premieres
44:59and what were the sort of early warning signs that this was...
45:03Warning signs.
45:04That's fair.
45:05I mean, you've been through it.
45:06They're warning signs that your whole life is going to change.
45:11Yeah, yeah.
45:12I don't have any warning signs.
45:15I was like...
45:16Because we watched the Squid Game before it came out.
45:20Like the actors, because we had to do kind of promotion and event stuff, but I thought
45:28that...
45:29Is it allowed to swear?
45:31Yeah.
45:32I thought that I popped.
45:33Like I popped up.
45:34Oh my God.
45:35I agree.
45:36I messed up.
45:38Like I totally messed up.
45:40I was like...
45:41The first message after I watched Squid Game to director Hoang was, I am so sorry.
45:48And thank you so much for casting me.
45:51I'm going to cry.
45:52But like...
45:53It was so stressful.
45:54I was like kind of trying to prepare the bad reactions and everything.
45:58But like...
45:59So...
46:00But you're so amazing.
46:01You're in despair.
46:02When you don't know.
46:03When you don't know.
46:04Yes.
46:05When you don't know.
46:06This is why I don't watch myself.
46:07I know.
46:08Yeah.
46:09It is.
46:10It's you don't know.
46:11It's very overwhelming to have something also I imagine that's like...
46:14Your experience in the show is like so intense.
46:17And it's so...
46:18You have so much inside internally.
46:20And then you're going to share that with everyone.
46:22Right.
46:23I don't know.
46:24Sometimes it can feel quite exposing too.
46:25Yeah.
46:26Because it doesn't...
46:27It's like so personal and then it doesn't belong to you anymore.
46:29Right.
46:30Yeah.
46:31But yeah.
46:32She's so beautiful even when she cried.
46:33I know.
46:34Has your feeling about it changed now?
46:36About when you watch yourself or the piece or what's it like now?
46:39Do you still think that you fucked up?
46:40Yeah.
46:41Yeah.
46:42Boy has everyone.
46:43Yeah.
46:44Yeah.
46:45She's wrong.
46:46Right on.
46:47Maybe it was better than I thought.
46:50Yeah.
46:51I have more kind of like...
46:56자신감?
46:57Confidence right now.
46:59But like...
47:00And then you know the things go so fast.
47:02Yeah.
47:03Yeah.
47:04Like you know like doing this interview with you guys is just like not make sense for me.
47:08Trying to catch on what you're saying.
47:10Yeah.
47:11It's super intense.
47:12Yeah.
47:13Yeah.
47:14Because like I just started you know.
47:15I never thought about what is going on in this industry.
47:19I just wanted to act.
47:20But like there are things going on.
47:22And then I have like a responsibility to know and then educate myself and then trying
47:28to develop.
47:29It can be really overwhelming.
47:31Especially if you're doing press simultaneously for like a huge hit show.
47:34You're probably going to need a little time to yourself.
47:37And I will tell you I still watch myself and immediately have that feeling.
47:41Every time.
47:42Every time.
47:43No matter what.
47:44It's like nothing.
47:45It's just different work.
47:46It was disastrous.
47:47Yeah.
47:48Always.
47:49I'm like I blew it.
47:50I blew it big up to you.
47:51Every time.
47:52Every time.
47:53Yeah.
47:54So that might never change.
47:55I remember that you are not always right about your own performances.
47:58Right.
47:59And then I think just I just have to keep keep going even though I make me say I cried right
48:04now.
48:05I don't know why I cried in this table.
48:07But like I just have to just keep going on like fight with my anxiety and then fight
48:13with the situation that I had and then just keep learning.
48:16Keep trying.
48:17And what's great too is like I think we're at a time now where everybody really has had
48:22a lot of discussions about what it is to be human.
48:24You know.
48:25And you no longer have to be completely flawless and with no idiosyncrasy.
48:29You can't hide it.
48:30You can't have to hide.
48:31You don't have to hide that you're nervous and all of those things.
48:34And that is right.
48:36You just keep going.
48:37You are you in this moment going through this journey and nothing that you do can be
48:43wrong.
48:44I have to say that that change of people talking about the mental health of this process
48:48and like the exposure of it has been also a really welcome change in the industry.
48:53Where like we can be emotional.
48:56We can show who we are behind ourselves.
48:59No.
49:00No.
49:01No.
49:02This is like a mental therapy really.
49:05Like a Susan.
49:06But this didn't used to happen.
49:07No.
49:08This is good.
49:09This didn't even used to happen.
49:11This is good.
49:12I mean this is amazing that like just listening what you guys saying is just like so educate
49:17me and then like.
49:19And you can't under it.
49:20We had an audition recently.
49:22Right.
49:23Like a big long hour.
49:24Right.
49:25And your like spirit and you made me feel braver.
49:30Like I was blown away by you.
49:31The fact that like you've done this one this huge such a first job and then I was auditioning
49:36with you and you were the life force.
49:38No.
49:39It took me back.
49:40Like and you're so like you have all the natural like just the spirit pours out of you
49:47so you just yeah just keep going.
49:49That's the thing I just feel so like the bravery that comes with this job that people
49:53don't always necessarily appreciate or understand and like how we're pushing past our own anxiety
49:58oftentimes our own stressors and like it's so beautiful that we get to communicate that
50:02now.
50:03Right.
50:04And be human beings no matter what job we do and that be valid and like accepted and explored.
50:11Because of all the things that I know we've gone through that we could never cover in a conversation
50:14like this that have made us question our life choices of doing this as a life you know style.
50:20I just think that that's so powerful that even in that moment like what made you want to be an actor.
50:27You know like I'd love to hear like what made you want to be an actor and what changed for you
50:33and your appreciation of the story and your performance in it that still brings you to the table.
50:39Oh like for the first question is that at the moment like there is no like exact moment that I decide
50:49okay I'm going to be an actor.
50:51It's just like while I'm working as an international model I traveled just a lot by myself.
50:58I was at a hotel plane just by myself alone so there's not much things that I can do.
51:04So what I did was just reading a lot of books and watching a lot of movies and drama like TV shows
51:12and I kind of see and then that time I had a kind of hard time like figuring out what am I doing as a model.
51:20Like what is my purpose of life and working and I just keep watching movies and reading like stories like
51:29and then I realized that maybe I can just study human.
51:33Like let's just study human and then that just leaves me then why don't I just do acting like the actress in this screen.
51:43So that's just like okay then let's just start learning and then I went back to Korea like when it's the summer break.
51:49Like when it's the summer vacation and winter vacation or like each month I just took a lesson.
51:55The things that I doing like for like next to project and the screen game I just auditioned.
52:03I never kind of I didn't get like a script before I got the audition except the one that we did together.
52:09So but I think I'm still figuring out because I'm reading a lot of scripts and yeah just starting to educate myself.
52:19Maybe can you like do you want to tell people about this woman's life or this woman's life like but still like and then also like the other side I'm thinking I just wanted to try you know like kind of everything then I can have more sense of what I like you know what I want to do.
52:41But now I think I'm just yeah listening you guys.
52:45We're coming to the to the end here so we're going to do sort of more of a lightning round which sounds way scarier than it actually is.
52:53I wish someone in Hollywood would cast me as a ventriloquist.
52:59What are you dying to play?
53:02A mute.
53:03I just want to be in Star Trek so I can be in all the universes.
53:06But you're really close.
53:07That's my like that is one arbitrary I mean I waved at her.
53:12I mean I waved at her.
53:13Oh yes.
53:14I always kind of also wanted to have a superhero costume.
53:17A vampire would be cool.
53:19Yeah a vampire like a super villain.
53:22Super villain.
53:23Super villain.
53:24Super villain.
53:25Definitely.
53:26Big villain like super archetype villain.
53:28Yes.
53:29I think I'm going to slowly start coming into that time in my life.
53:33Someone's just got to pick me right man.
53:35I would really like to play like a rock star or something.
53:38I don't know if you guys aren't going to be a friend in Phantom of the Opera blows my mind.
53:41But I would love to do something like singing.
53:44I didn't realize that was you in Phantom of the Opera which I watched like repeatedly my whole like always.
53:50And I was like that's heavy.
53:52Yeah yeah.
53:53Psycho.
53:54That is really fun when you're singing and dancing.
53:56Maybe psychopath killer.
53:58Psychopath killer.
53:59I like that.
54:00I like that.
54:01Because I really wonder why like why and then what's their life like what is the past life about.
54:09And the perspective you have to have to be able to do that is interesting.
54:12I love that.
54:13Well on that note, thank you all for being here.
54:16And to be back in person.
54:18Yeah.
54:19And sharing your stories and your time.
54:21So thank you.
54:22Bye.
54:23Bye.
54:24Bye.
54:25Bye.
54:28Bye.
54:29Bye.
54:30Bye.
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