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00:00This was a tough interview because of the season.
00:03You know, we're talking about this disappointing season.
00:05Where are they going to go forward?
00:07And there's going to be some, I think there's going to be some major moves.
00:10We're joined this week by one of our favorites,
00:13whether it's at the ballpark or here on the podcast, Keith Hernandez.
00:16Yeah, we absolutely love Keith.
00:18Not just a great first baseman, but a great analyst.
00:21And that's what makes him a great podcast guest.
00:23It's, I think, good timing, even though the Mets had a terrible, terrible season.
00:28But, Pete, we're going to ask him all the tough questions.
00:30So it should be interesting.
00:32Yeah, you know, we haven't had him on since the collapse was completed
00:35and the Mets didn't get in the playoffs.
00:37So we'll ask him about that.
00:38We'll ask him about what he thinks about what the Mets should do with Pete Alonzo.
00:42I'm sure we'll ask him about his contemporary Don Mattingly and a lot else.
00:46John and I will talk a lot about the World Series at the top of the show.
00:50We'll play hit and error at the bottom.
00:51If you stick with us on the show with Joel Sherman and John Hamer.
00:58We're both in Los Angeles.
01:01People are watching this on the New York Post Sports YouTube.
01:04John has done, of course, Yeoman's work, as always.
01:06He's broken into Dodger Stadium early in the morning.
01:10He's in the press box.
01:11The game, let's say that the first pitch of the game is well in the distance for Game 5.
01:16I'm talking to you from a hotel room in Los Angeles.
01:19I'll be joining John there soon.
01:20And that means the World Series is still going on.
01:24We're tied at 2-2 through four games.
01:28And, John, it's a compelling World Series.
01:30The Dodgers were heavy favorites in this World Series.
01:34And the Blue Jays are just Nats with a G in front of it.
01:38Not Washington Nats.
01:39A G-N-A-T-S.
01:41They had to be even more so in Game 4 without their leadoff hitter.
01:45And spiritual leader George Springer with, you know, I mentioned in my column,
01:50and I think I might have mentioned to you downstairs since we were waiting for the Blue Jays Clubhouse to open up,
01:53Bo Bichette looks like he's running like Giancarlo Stanton while carrying Aaron Judge.
01:58Like, they have some real dents right now.
02:00And they're fighting.
02:02And it's tied 2-2.
02:03And I wonder, big picture, what you think of where the series is at.
02:06Yeah, I mean, it could go either way.
02:08I think it's 50-50.
02:09I think last week we talked about how the underdog often wins.
02:14You know, it's seven games, not a lot of games.
02:17I know people think it is because sometimes we have a five-game series or a three-game series.
02:21We used to have a one-game series.
02:22Seven feels maybe like a lot.
02:24I don't know.
02:24We've seen so many upsets since the Reds in 90 and 88.
02:29The A's also lost that one.
02:30But, I mean, I'm going back a few years.
02:32But it does feel like it's kind of a crapshoot, seven games.
02:36And let's face it, Toronto's a good team.
02:38They won 94 games.
02:40They beat out the Yankees.
02:41They killed the Yankees in the division series, outscoring them 34-19.
02:45This is a good team, and they are a resilient team.
02:48They were down 2-0 to Seattle.
02:50They were down 3-2 to Seattle.
02:52Came back, won that series.
02:54I mean, Ohtani looked like, you know, he is the world beater.
02:56He is the greatest player of all time.
02:58But he looked unbeatable in game three.
03:01And they came back, and they beat him.
03:03Now, of course, it's not so easy to pitch if you're on base nine times.
03:09And I think he was in the trainer's room.
03:12I think he was not in perfect shape.
03:14But no excuses.
03:15You got a $400 million payroll.
03:18Blue Jays are a very good team.
03:20Vlad Guerrero is a superstar.
03:22Stats are actually better than Ohtani's offensively throughout October.
03:27I mean, he doesn't pitch.
03:28So, I mean, he's not nobody's Ohtani.
03:30But Vlad's been amazing.
03:32And, you know, these other players that they have, these complementary players, whether it be Clement, Lucas, they're solid players.
03:40Yeah.
03:41You know, John, I thought, and I need to stop thinking, that when the Dodgers won that epic game,
03:49and we should probably talk about that game a little, an 18-inning game,
03:52Freeman wins it with a walk-off homer as he won it with a grand slam walk-off against the Yankees in the first game in Dodger.
04:00Game three was the first game in Dodger Stadium of this World Series.
04:03He won game one of Dodger Stadium in 2024 with a walk-off grand slam against the Yankees.
04:08That the combination of that, the length of the game, and what felt like now felt like it was going to be,
04:14oh, this is going to be the World Series of Ohtani, right, is he went four for four,
04:18became the second player, the first since 1906, to have four extra base hits in a World Series.
04:24At that point, the Blue Jays said, you know what, this guy is lit dynamite.
04:28Let's not get anywhere near him.
04:30And they either intentionally or unintentionally walked him five times the rest of the way.
04:37And he, as you mentioned, he reached base nine times.
04:39And I was just like, oh, between the combination of the exhaustion and losing Springer
04:44and the emotional toll of being so close to winning that World Series and Ohtani taking over.
04:50I know baseball is not a momentum game, that players are good because of the serial nature and the inventory of moving on.
04:57And yet I felt like, wow, that was an overhand right to the jaw.
05:02And so I can't tell you how impressed I was by the Blue Jays coming out and kind of beating Ohtani twice.
05:10You know, Bieber outpitches him and Bieber strikes him out twice and Ohtani doesn't get a hit.
05:14And now it's a best of three with the Blue Jays owning the home field again because they got game six and seven.
05:19We know we're going back to Toronto.
05:21The Blue Jays are an impressive lot.
05:23The length of talent and the fortitude is pretty darn good.
05:26Yeah, I mean, it certainly hurt to lose that game, an 18-inning game.
05:32And I appreciate the fact it was an hour shorter than the one we were here in 2018 for, right, because of the pitch clock.
05:38But still a long game.
05:40And I don't remember if it was Bassett or Scherzer.
05:42You can imagine either one.
05:43I'm saying it was like a kick in the you-know-whats to lose that game.
05:46It was bad.
05:46It was terrible.
05:48But it doesn't mean that you're going to lose the series.
05:50It's still only one game.
05:51It's certainly not good to stay here for seven, six and a half hours and lose, but still only one game.
06:07And this team has been through it before.
06:09To lose your first two at home in that LCS against Seattle, which to me, I thought Seattle was the more talented team.
06:15Maybe I was wrong about that.
06:17But to come back from that, that's even tougher, I think.
06:22Yeah, you know, John, I wonder if I could highlight two guys.
06:26Let's call them the killer bees.
06:28You know, when you watch from a distance, and I think we're people, we try not to be myopic and just care about the two New York teams.
06:34We both work at the network.
06:35We're talking about all 30 teams all the time.
06:38But obviously, while based in New York, we're at a lot of Met and Yankee games.
06:43We are familiar with the work of Chris Bassett.
06:46He was a starting pitcher for the Mets.
06:48He's been a very, very good, consistent, durable starting pitcher for a long time.
06:54He's got in the bullpen, and he's helped influence games this postseason.
06:58I think he finally gave up a hit as a relief pitcher yesterday.
07:02He's been strong.
07:03And the other guy who stood out for me, because he has some high-end skills, the stuff he could do well, he could do really well, is Addison Barger.
07:08He's got a great, not a good arm, a great arm, threw a guy out in game three, and really has some thump in his bat, and plays hard, and seems to play smart.
07:21He kind of feels to me like the best of that secondary group you were mentioning before, of the Clements and the Lucases, et cetera.
07:27If you want, go there, go to the guys you like.
07:30But those two have stood out for me as kind of rising to the moment.
07:34If you believe the Dodgers have better talent, you need players on the Blue Jays to rise up, and those two guys feel like something to me.
07:42Yeah, I mean, their complementary players have been better, no question about that.
07:45Barger is a guy with terrific talent.
07:47He was a guy who was made to be a ball player, and he understood it like in the eighth grade, his family built a, I don't know if it was a stadium, but a field in the backyard.
07:57I don't know, big, the yard, it must be pretty big.
08:00When he was in ninth grade, he was homeschooled.
08:04That's a tough road to take, right?
08:05I mean, you could be homeschooled and not become a major league player, and then what do you do?
08:10But he did it, and so give him credit.
08:12He does swing from the heels.
08:13He doesn't really have a two-strike approach, but, you know, he's very talented.
08:18He hits the ball very hard.
08:19He throws it unbelievably, I think, at a 98-mile-an-hour throw from the outfield the other day.
08:24So he's very talented.
08:26Passett, you know, I talked to him after the game about whether he now wants to be a reliever, and he reminded me that he came up as an elite reliever and transitioned because he could do starting,
08:37and he thinks it's more valuable to be a starter in the long run, so he'll be back as a free agent, as a starter.
08:43But, you know, he's been great in the pool.
08:46You're right.
08:46He's given up that one hit.
08:47I think eight strikeouts in six innings, something like the eight or nine, and, you know, that's been a great move.
08:53Look, Toronto, their front office was kind of under the gun coming into this year, and they didn't make, you know, signings that were all stars, right?
09:03Santander is now hurt, but he had a terrible year.
09:07You know, Jimenez has been good at shortstop.
09:10He's obviously a terrific defensive player, but he hasn't had a big year.
09:14Hoffman now hot and doing great in the postseason, but he didn't have a big year.
09:18So, you know, it's come up great for them because all these guys who are complementary players are really playing well.
09:25Can't say that about the Dodgers.
09:27They've got a center fielder right now.
09:28What is he, four for 50, something like that?
09:30That was an estimate, Pais.
09:32I've never seen a guy who's replaced for a pinch hitter and a defensive replacement.
09:38They bring in Dean, and yet he starts every game.
09:42I'm not really sure why he does, other than they say Edmund can't play center, but he did play center, right?
09:47He came in, and they moved him to center at the end of the game.
09:50I don't think we're told of the guy who's batting 80, you know?
09:54Yeah, Edmund obviously went in in the 18-inning game because they needed somebody.
10:01Sometimes they move Pais over to right field and have Dean in center field for the full defense.
10:07I think the Dodgers do like Pais' defense, but I agree with you.
10:10His offense has been so bad that I do wonder someplace here, game five, six, and if we go seven,
10:16if they have to put somebody else in just to turn the lineup over to Otani.
10:21It's a big disadvantage to have the guy, right, Otani's got eight home runs in October to have a guy who's never on base, right?
10:29He has an on-base percentage of about 100, right?
10:33You can't have him batting in front of Otani.
10:35I would put anybody else in there, but it's not, you know, not my choice.
10:39They do like his defense, not as much as Dean, but they like his defense.
10:44I think they need to figure somebody else out in center field.
10:47Yeah, John, I wonder if the way to wrap up this segment is we were in the ballpark for both of the longest World Series games in the history of the sport,
10:58the two 18-inning games at Dodger Stadium, one ended by Max Muncy with a home run for Nathan Ivaldi,
11:03the other the other night off of Brendan Little, Freddie Freeman going deep.
11:09I'll tell you, obviously, let's do the what will resonate with you.
11:14So the, obviously, it will be Otani. I wonder if you could pick out something else.
11:19For me, it was Yamamoto walking out to the bullpen because we had had a report on Fox that Klein was going to pitch one more inning,
11:29and then they were going to bring in a reliever, which turns out, a position player, which turns out it was going to be Miguel Rojas.
11:35And knowing in the back of my mind that a World Series game that was in play in the 18th inning,
11:40a position player was about to go in to see Yamamoto begin to go out to the bullpen,
11:44kind of like you do remember that this means a lot to players,
11:48and they're putting a lot on the line when their bodies, this is the time in the year where their bodies are most broken and exhausted.
11:55And Yamamoto, literally on one day's rest, he had thrown 100 plus pitches in a complete game.
12:00He's walking out there, and I don't know if you saw the video.
12:02I thought it was a great video. When Freeman hits the homer, everyone goes to dogpile Freeman,
12:07except for Sasaki and Otani go running down the left field line to hug Yamamoto,
12:15understanding what Yamamoto was just about to do for the team.
12:19It will really resonate to me in the Otani game that. I wonder if anything sticks out for you.
12:25What will stick out for me is they needed to score because you don't want to put Yamamoto in that game
12:29knowing he's your best starting pitcher and he's coming up to pitch in a couple days.
12:34To me, they had to score. So Freddie Freeman does it again.
12:38The thick marine air, as they say here in L.A., was holding up some balls that were hit far.
12:43I think Will Smith had one. Teoscar had one. I think Freeman had one earlier.
12:47It didn't quite go. This one went out by about three feet to dead center.
12:52Freeman, unbelievably clutch, second walk-off World Series homer, first guy to ever do that.
12:59So to me, Freeman stands out. I know that maybe he's not quite the player he was,
13:06but this guy is on the field taking practice, practicing his fielding drills every day.
13:13It's unbelievable. To me, what stands to me about the Dodgers is Freeman and Betts.
13:17They are the hardest workers you will ever see. And when you have your best player,
13:23I mean, obviously, Otani is the best player in the world, but you have your best players working like this.
13:28That really sets a great tone for this team. And that is, you know, one of the reasons,
13:33not just the $400 million spent, that this team is so great.
13:36The other reason is, of course, their two best players this year are the Japanese, let's say, imports.
13:42Obviously, Otani had been here six years already.
13:44Otani and Yamamoto are their most valuable players. And, I mean, this team is an incredible team.
13:51Does it mean it's going to win for sure? It doesn't mean that. No.
13:54I think Snell will be better tonight as we do this.
13:58And we'll see, because he's on his regular rest rather than extra rest.
14:02His fastball command was not good, but it's a crapshoot. It really is.
14:06A three-game series now, I think a seven is a crapshoot.
14:09And, look, Toronto's better than we gave him credit for.
14:12Yeah, no, Toronto's impressive. We obviously know the star power of the Dodgers is impressive.
14:17You watch Yamamoto, you understand why the Mets and the Yankees were pushing $300 million,
14:21$300 million in the Mets case, the same exact offer as the Dodgers, $12 to $325 million,
14:27into the pot to try to get him. You see just how talented he is.
14:30And on the subject of those Mets, one of our friends of the show, frequent visitor here, Keith Hernandez,
14:38will talk about the Mets and more if you stick with us on the show with Joel Sherman and John Heyman.
14:48John, we're joined by somebody who's one of our favorites to deal with,
14:51whether we're at the ballpark or doing the podcast.
14:54And he's a frequent visitor on the podcast, a friend of the podcast.
14:58Keith Hernandez, do I actually have to do bio?
15:00One of the best first basemen in Major League history and part of an iconic broadcasting crew
15:06with Gary Cohn and Ron Darling.
15:09Keith Hernandez, thank you for joining us on the show.
15:11Always, guys. My pleasure.
15:14Keith, we haven't had, though you've joined us, thank you, as always.
15:17You've joined us frequently.
15:18We haven't had you since the end of perhaps the most disappointing season in Met history.
15:23It's certainly in the short list with like 2007 and maybe another one or two.
15:30Go where you want, Keith, on this.
15:33There were high expectations coming off of what happened in the first year of the Stearns-Mendoza administration
15:38where they got to game six of the NLCS and where they were in mid-June with the best record in the sport.
15:44And then they just spent four years slowly falling into quicksand with an anvil.
15:48If that's possible.
15:49And somehow didn't make even the sixth seed in the National League.
15:54What did you think of it all by the end?
15:57Well, I think that what was the big collapse?
16:02Were they bested?
16:04Was it 2006 or 2007 that they outdid?
16:07Seven.
16:07Seven, they outdid the Phillies, the 64 Phillies.
16:11Yeah.
16:11That to me was more shocking because it happened so quickly, basically in the last, what, almost month, three and a half weeks of the season or three weeks of the season.
16:23This one, you certainly saw it coming because of their, you know, how they played.
16:31They had the third, was it the third worst or fourth worst record since June when they had the best record, as you mentioned.
16:39I was always worried about the pitching.
16:42I was worried about Holmes holding up.
16:46And I was surprised that he went that deep in innings pitched.
16:51And, you know, he's the kind of guy that was all out.
16:54He's used to pitching in the ninth inning with the game on the line.
16:57And I just was, the fact that he hadn't started in so long, you know, when was it going to catch up to him?
17:05And it did.
17:06But Senga has always been a little brittle and he got hurt.
17:14And then that infamous, I hate it, that oblique injury that, you know, they just, it's become a part of the game.
17:23And it's when you have an oblique, it is two months and that's a third of the season and that kills a team.
17:29And, of course, I'm talking about Mania.
17:31Yeah, you can't, you can't project injuries.
17:36And it was a group effort because this was a team that didn't hit in the clutch pretty much through July.
17:44I remember in July they were hitting 218 with runners in scoring position.
17:48They wound up the last two months to make up for it where they wound up over 250, which was remarkable.
17:55A good comeback for them.
17:57But this was certainly more disappointing.
18:03I think that is the word, the definition of the season, because so many guys make the playoffs.
18:13And if you don't, you know, you're not very good.
18:16And the fact with the Soto signing and what the last season, how they went to the, got eliminated in the end in the championship series, greater expectations.
18:31And so you saw it coming.
18:36And I was worried, I mean, I got COVID and I didn't work the last, the nine games after the Texas series at home, the last homestand.
18:45And I missed the next two series at home and I missed Chicago because I got COVID, believe it or not.
18:52And I only had the Miami series.
18:55But I went, I've had a bad feeling about that road trip.
18:59Number one, they're playing a Cub team.
19:01That's a decent team, a good team, playoff team.
19:06And Miami, who for some reason, that team has just been a thorn in the Mets side.
19:15And I just had, they're not a bad team, by the way.
19:18They were young and full of, full of pep.
19:20And, you know, the Mets, all they had to do was win two out of three in their end and they didn't.
19:25And I just, I had a bad feeling about that road trip and it happened.
19:31So it's, yeah, it's disappointing.
19:35It was just a lot of, you know, the fact everybody wants to talk about the money and the payroll.
19:40Okay, fine.
19:42Not getting there.
19:43But to not just purely on the baseball sense, if you don't make the playoffs, I mean, there's six teams that get in.
19:50Out of the, what, 15.
19:53And if you don't get in, I mean, come on.
19:58It's not a good year.
20:00Terrible.
20:01It was a terrible year.
20:02It was awful.
20:03I give you credit.
20:04When did you start to sense this?
20:06Because they were 45 and 24 on June 12th or June 13th.
20:10And I think everybody figured they were one of the better teams in baseball.
20:14I mean, to me, this collapse, I mean, you can rate collapses wherever you want.
20:18But, I mean, to me, this is brutal that they were terrible over the last, I mean, almost four months of the season.
20:24When did, I mean, when did you see a sign?
20:27Because they're, not only were they the best record, they had the best ERA in baseball.
20:31I mean, was there an earlier sign that you saw that we didn't?
20:37Well, certainly going forward out of spring training with the injuries that, you know, and then Senga was pitching so well.
20:44So, when you lose your three starters, that's definitely a red flag right there.
20:52But it didn't really show.
20:53I think I mentioned, you know, in the first game in Miami in the Open, as I looked back, and they had made in the last 12 games, which included the series at home, they made nine errors.
21:10And in the month of September, they made a double digit in errors, high teens.
21:15And you just can't, you can't play that way and win.
21:20The defense was, and just the mental mistakes, the guys getting picked off, and it was just a total collapse.
21:29Everybody wants to blame the pitching, but, you know, they just didn't, they didn't get it done.
21:34And in that last road trip, they did not hit in the clutch.
21:37And when it was needed, and no one picked up the flag.
21:42Pete was the one guy, he had a, Pete had a tough, had a bad July, I believe.
21:48He had under 200.
21:49That was his only bad month.
21:51And unfortunately, that's when things started to fall apart.
21:55And Nemo had a bad two months in that stretch, July and August, and I believe.
22:00And, you know, everything just collectively started falling apart.
22:05And it was just confounding that, with that kind of talent, that they were finding ways to lose against teams that they were much better than.
22:21I mean, the Reds on paper, you know, paper, what does that mean?
22:25Bob Gibson told me once, oh, he's got potential.
22:28You know what potential means?
22:29He hasn't done it yet.
22:31I'll never forget that when I heard that from Bob Gibson when I was, he told me, I mean, you got potential.
22:35Potential, you haven't done it yet.
22:37Oh, thanks for the confidence boost, Bob.
22:40You did okay.
22:41You did all right.
22:42Your potential worked.
22:45Keith, you know, you've mentioned, like, six teams making the playoffs.
22:50And obviously, if that many teams made the playoffs, your late 80s Mets team would have made it a lot more often than it did.
22:57But I wonder, when you think you're good and you don't even get in, what the regret, because I think that this team should have great regret and look back.
23:07You know, there's seasons are precious.
23:09If you're lucky, you get to play 8, 10, 12, 14 years.
23:13Like, you know, a full season is a large percentage of everything.
23:16I wonder how, like, you even think about it as somebody who probably sat around in 87, you know, like, even 85, you weren't able to catch the Cardinals quite yet.
23:27Like, when you leave it on the table, when you think you're probably good enough to not leave it on the table, what the level of regret is?
23:33Um, I don't know if it's regret, because you can't tell me that everybody didn't put 100% in.
23:42And they just didn't, they didn't, I hate this term.
23:44These are the new terms, execute.
23:46You know, I love pitchers that say I didn't execute.
23:49No, you didn't.
23:49Just, I made a bad pitch.
23:51I don't want to hear execute.
23:52I hate that term.
23:53Anyway, I'm about to beat in track.
23:56When we lost in 85, we won 98 games, and we go home.
24:00That was disappointment, not regret.
24:04I mean, that was a great season, and this fell short.
24:08And 87, we fell short again.
24:13We won 90-something games, mid-90s, I believe.
24:17So it wasn't like we finished under 500.
24:20Can I jump in?
24:20Because maybe the right analogy is when it really starts.
24:23Is 89 the right analogy, where, like, you think you're going to be really good, and it turns out you're not really good?
24:32I felt in 89, Joel, that we were starting to come apart at the seams internally, that Mookie was, Lenny was unhappy.
24:42Mookie, for the first time, Mookie was such a consummate professional, and Mookie said he had had enough.
24:49And I just felt we were coming apart at the seams in 89.
24:53So I didn't, I did not go into that season feeling confident, and that was my last year, and I was really, I got hurt, but I missed most of the season.
25:06But to finish, to have a team, if we had finished under 500, in any of those years in the 80s, that would have been, you have to look yourself in the mirror.
25:16One of those, collectively.
25:19So, not so much regret, just what did we do, and what do we do going forward?
25:30So, I mean, they've got to be very disappointed with such high hopes.
25:36And this team, when they play great, you know, they're rah, rah, rah, and then when things go bad, they don't handle it well.
25:43Well, when I watch in the dugout, they don't handle it well.
25:48They're probably not going to like me saying that, but that's my opinion.
25:50And I'm there, and I do 110 games, and I'm watching, and I'm seeing how they react on the field in the dugout.
25:59You know, and they've got to be more this way, not down in the valley, up high when things are going great.
26:07You've got to pull together when things go bad.
26:09And I just didn't think that this team was as together tight as the teams with Buck when they won 100 games.
26:21Was it three years ago?
26:22They were collectively together as a group last year when they got hot.
26:27But they got hot, and when things are going great, you know, it's fun to come to the ballpark.
26:33Can't wait to put the uniform on at 7.30.
26:36Let's go get them, 7 o'clock.
26:37Look, it's when things go bad, that's when you've got to pull together.
26:42And they didn't do it this year for various reasons, and you just can't pin it on the pitching.
26:49Yeah, you're talking about the clubhouse, and you are there 110 games, and you are one of those TV analysts who is in the clubhouse.
26:57You get there early, and you see stuff.
26:59I'm wondering, I mean, to me, it was noticeable.
27:03They didn't seem completely together in that clubhouse.
27:06I mean, I think that Soto is a great guy.
27:09I think that Lindor is a great guy.
27:12They're there together.
27:13They're going to be there together for at least the next decade.
27:16Do you think there was a clubhouse issue overall for this team?
27:20And maybe I'm the one who saw this, or maybe I'm not.
27:24I don't know.
27:24It felt like Soto.
27:25They didn't butt heads, but Soto and Lindor are the two key guys to this team going forward.
27:30We don't know what's going to happen to Pete.
27:32Should they be?
27:34It felt like they weren't really close.
27:36I mean, am I crazy?
27:37I don't know if you noticed that as well, but could that have some effect on the performance of the team?
27:43Now, individually, they did great, but that was my observation.
27:46I never saw them speaking.
27:49Well, I'll be honest with you.
27:50I am not in the clubhouse, particularly at home that much, because they got that second room back there, and they got meetings.
28:00I mean, if I had to go to an hour hitting meeting before every game and go over pitchers, that would drive me frigging nuts.
28:10And, you know, they're gone for an hour.
28:12You go in the clubhouse, and where are the hitters?
28:14And, oh, I got to a hitter meeting.
28:18It'll last an hour.
28:19I mean, it's just – I wouldn't enjoy that.
28:24I would probably not pay attention.
28:28I would probably drift in the middle of the meeting.
28:30If they ask me a question, I have to go, huh, what?
28:33Anyway, on the road, I can see more.
28:36I did not – I can't say one way or the other if there was any friction between the two of them.
28:42They're two different personalities.
28:45Lindor, I'll say one thing.
28:46Lindor is at his locker, and he's very vocal, and he's gregarious.
28:51Where Juan is very serious about his business and stays to himself.
28:58He's much like Marte, and I think that's why he and Marte kind of connected.
29:02And as you noticed, in June, when Juan – remember, he was having a hard time in April and May adjusting, and I'm up there going, hey, you're going to be here for, what, 15 years?
29:17Whatever it is.
29:18You're not like – I got traded to a last-place team.
29:23You're getting traded to a contending team.
29:26And so, you know, it's not like you were sent to the salt mines.
29:31But I think Marte helped him, and I don't think – you know, Marte's probably not going to come back next year, and he's going to lose that little friendship there.
29:44I can't say one way or the other that there was any friction between the two of them.
29:47I don't want to say friction.
29:49More like I didn't see them interacting much.
29:52That's all, you know.
29:53Well, Juan's kind of a solitary guy, and Lindor is the exact opposite.
29:58It's like Carter and myself, although I was gregarious.
30:02You know, when Carter got traded over, I remember I was thrilled because I knew with our young staff that he was the piece that we needed.
30:11I hated to give up Hubie Brooks because Hubie was coming into his own.
30:15But you're not going to get Gary Carter for nothing.
30:18And I knew coming in that the press would be watching to see how Gary and I got along because Gary was basically – when you played against him, he was easy to dislike.
30:29And, you know, with all the rah-rah.
30:32But as a teammate, he was fabulous.
30:35And he played hard every day with pain.
30:38I saw what he had to go through at pregame with his knees and his hustle and his desire to win.
30:45And we got along fine.
30:48We didn't go out together.
30:50But when we were at the ballpark, we were working together.
30:54We were teammates.
30:55And I wasn't going to let any friction – I can remember the home run he hit off Neil Allen on opening day in 85.
31:04I made sure I was the first one at home plate to greet him.
31:07And I did that on purpose because I just wanted to – I didn't want any issues where the media could say, well, Carter and Hernandez aren't getting along.
31:18And that creates friction in the club.
31:20And it never happened.
31:21I got along great with Gary.
31:22You know, Keith, if I was going to use an FR word, I would say they didn't have friction.
31:28They didn't have fraternity.
31:30There wasn't unity.
31:31Didn't feel together.
31:33That's what it was.
31:34Look, I'll ask you because, again, you get tied to the player a lot because you're the two greatest first basemen in the history of the franchise.
31:40You mentioned Pete Alonso.
31:42And they do have a decision about Pete.
31:45The head of baseball operations, David Stearns, and I don't think accidentally at least about 10 times in his end-of-year press conference used the term run prevention.
31:54Right.
31:55Defense.
31:56If you're going to talk run prevention, you know, I know Pete tries hard and he has a skill, which is scooping.
32:02But he ain't going to help you too much on the run prevention side.
32:05So I wonder what you think is going to happen and what you think should happen with Pete.
32:10Pete, you're not going to replace his bat, his power bat.
32:17To me, he is the second coming of Harmon Kildebrew.
32:22I said that on his rookie season, plus the fact that he's a right-handed bat and our lineup is better.
32:33We've got left-hand hitters in the middle there.
32:34Really, our lineup was top-heavy.
32:38And not ours, the Mets.
32:40It was top-heavy.
32:41The one through four, and then the bottom half, okay, they had to rely.
32:46When they flipped the lineup, it was, okay, they've got to take advantage of this.
32:50They've got top of the order.
32:51That's why I always kind of wanted them to have a ninth hitter if Mullins would have hit someone with speed in that nine hole.
33:01It's another lead-off hitter that gets on base.
33:05Then that's when the lineup flips.
33:08Instead of the nine flipping to one, eight flips to nine.
33:12To me, that would flip the order.
33:14And they had to take advantage of that.
33:16But you look at it.
33:18Lindor, for some reason, hit better left-handed than right-handed.
33:20He's a better right-hand hitter than a left-hand hitter.
33:22But that last year, he had better left-handed.
33:25Then you've got Soto left, Pete right, and then Nimmo left.
33:33You take Pete out of that lineup, where are you going to find the replacement?
33:37Where are you going to find 125 RBIs?
33:39As far as his defense, the fact that he scoops well, and even though he falls down, which is amazing to me, he falls down a lot.
33:49He does scoop well, which is great for the other infielders to know that they don't have to throw a perfect throw over there.
33:55His range, if the ball gets by him, okay, so what?
34:00So what?
34:01He has trouble throwing the first base to the pitcher, obviously, and it's almost like Steve Sachs of having a hard time throwing the first base.
34:10It's basically the same thing.
34:11It's all up here.
34:14And that has hurt.
34:18But to me, if he drives in 125 runs, and right-handed bat, I think they've got to sign him.
34:27And they've got to sign Diaz, too.
34:29Yeah, I'm with you on Pete.
34:31I don't know how you replace him.
34:32Exactly.
34:33Right-handed bat, right?
34:34Alvarez has not been quite the power hitter yet.
34:36He's still very, very young.
34:38Could come up.
34:39Vientos really does not have a position with his team at this point.
34:42So I don't know how you replace a right-handed hitter like Pete when they are very heavily left-handed.
34:47Nimmo and Soto being two of their best offensive players, obviously.
34:51But, you know, since we are on defense here, and you're the greatest first baseman defensively, along with Mattingly of all time, most would actually say you're the best.
35:04Does Pete ever come to you?
35:06Is there anything?
35:07Because that is an issue.
35:08Maybe it's the moving target because he's better throwing to second or to home or wherever.
35:13But to watch Vladimir Guerrero here, as I have for two series, I mean, the guy's a confident thrower to any base at any time.
35:21It is a huge thing.
35:24Does he ever come to you?
35:26Can you help him with that throw?
35:27Or is it, I mean, it's Steve Sachs thing.
35:29He needs more of a psychiatrist than a first baseman to help him.
35:32What can they do about Pete and the throwing to first?
35:40No one's number one.
35:41No one's come to me to help Pete.
35:44So the last time I helped anybody was Todd Zill, and that was when Bobby Valentine was the manager.
35:50So to me, when I threw to first base, I always, when I turned, I got the ball, depending on how, if I had to throw overhand,
36:01I always try to run to the back and give him the underhand, and that's easy.
36:07The throw when you're in the hole, I would always turn, and I would see where the pitcher was,
36:14and he'd always have his glove out, and I would throw it five yards ahead of him.
36:20So it's like a, I was a quarterback, so it was like me throwing a look into my wide receiver
36:25and a look in on my right side over the middle, you know, and you got to throw over the top.
36:29And I would lead him five feet, and depending on the closeness of the play is how hard I had to throw the ball
36:38because you want to get the ball there before he gets to the bag so he has time.
36:43It's a tough play for the pitcher.
36:45I don't have the answer for Pete, but I think the main point to me is you're not going to find a bat like his,
36:54and he was clutch all year long.
36:56He was the one guy that drove in the big runs.
36:59He was super clutch.
37:01And in a team that struggled with men in scoring position, I just feel he's got to come back.
37:09Keith, John mentioned the name Don Mattingly.
37:12Obviously, you have lots of ties to him also.
37:14You were contemporaries.
37:16You had very similar games.
37:17You were just the two best defensive first basemen I've ever seen,
37:20and you played at the same time against each other in New York.
37:23Lefty hitters, great contact hitters, both had some power.
37:27Maybe Donnie a touch more because of his ballpark he played in.
37:30He finally made it to the World Series this year as a coach with the Blue Jays.
37:35You were blessed, right?
37:36You played on a couple of champions along the way.
37:38I wonder what you think about the bigger picture of fulfilling something.
37:44Like, is there an emptiness if you don't at least experience the ultimate that you could experience in baseball?
37:52It's too bad that Ernie Banks is not still alive.
37:55You can ask Ernie Banks that question, you know, that great player that he was.
37:59And he never got to the World Series.
38:01I'm sure that Don is thrilled to be in the World Series, and he's a part of it as a coach.
38:06But it's really, he's a player, and I'm sure it's very disappointing for Don never to get to the World Series.
38:14And it's never one person's fault.
38:16It's team effort, you know, if you don't get there.
38:20So to me, it's great for Don, but it's got to be disappointed he didn't get there.
38:27I was always pulling for him to get in there, and it just didn't happen, especially when he hurt his back.
38:33And, you know, as far as his defense, they didn't bunt in that league because of the DH.
38:39And I was able to show off, not show off, but show my bunt skills and my aggressiveness.
38:47And I think that if Don had been in the National League, Don would have been a terrific guy on the bunt as well.
38:54You know, he had nine gold gloves.
38:56And if he didn't get hurt, he probably would have, I got 11, he probably would have got 13 and been number one.
39:04That's very interesting about the bunt.
39:06I hadn't considered that.
39:07He was absolutely fabulous.
39:09Don was, the thing I liked about Don, he was no fancy Dan.
39:13He was just two hands, nothing, no frills.
39:17He was a blue collar, great fielding first baseman.
39:22Absolutely.
39:23Let me ask you about this now.
39:26I mean, I think everybody watching, listening, wants to know what your situation is.
39:30I won't say you have the best booth because other than you, I think Michael Kay is our most frequent podcast guest, and we love Michael.
39:40So I won't say you have the best booth, but I think you have the best pair of analysts, you and Ron Darling.
39:46And I know your contract is up.
39:47So tell us, please, that you are coming back, and it's not just for one year.
39:53Well, we haven't begun negotiations, but we will.
39:57And I am not ready to retire.
40:00If I do another three, they've always been three-year deals.
40:03And then the three-year deal will take me to 75.
40:06I just turned 72.
40:09And I'm ready to do another three.
40:12And this team is kind of fun to watch.
40:15We'll see.
40:16And it's going to be curious to see what transforms in the offseason, what they do to what moves.
40:26I think they're going to make some moves.
40:28I think some people are going to get traded.
40:30I mean, it'd be nice to get a number one starter.
40:33But where are you going to find that?
40:35If you're going to go for school ball, it's going to cost you an arm and a leg.
40:38I always say pitching is the name of the game.
40:43Yeah.
40:45Keith, as a way to wrap this up, I wonder, you talked about that you anticipate a lot of movement for the team to try to improve.
40:54A lot of coaches got fired from this team, and they're going to change there first.
41:01And I just wonder, as a longtime player and a longtime observer, does it matter at all?
41:05Like, obviously, they took the – they're either the blame, the scapegoat, whatever you want.
41:11Does it matter that they're going to do this large transition coaching-wise?
41:17And are you surprised at all?
41:19I mean, I think John and I are a little surprised on the Antoine Richardson thing just because they stole bases at such a high level this year.
41:26And he seemed to be so bonded to Soto in particular.
41:29I wonder what you think.
41:29Does coaching matter almost to a level where we should care that they did this much transition?
41:36I think the most important coach is your pitching coach because you've got mechanics, and pitchers can be delicate.
41:48That was very well put.
41:49I like that.
41:51So I always felt the pitching coach was the most – Mel Stoudemire was just a terrific pitching coach.
41:55He had gravitas, and he knew how to pitch, and he had that – he had that respect.
42:01And when Mel talked about pitching, you listened.
42:05And so I think that's the most important.
42:06The second most important coaching – coach is the third-base coach because he's the one.
42:12It's – I mean, Bobby Valentine was the best third-base coach I ever had.
42:16And Bud Harrelson, I was surprised because Bud was such a nice guy that I thought Bud would be a little timid when he took over when Bobby left for Texas to manage.
42:27And Bud took over at third base.
42:30Bud was just as aggressive as Bobby Valentine, and I had complete faith in both those guys.
42:36Two great third-base coaches.
42:38So those are the two.
42:41I guess when the team fails, the axe is going to fall.
42:47I noticed that the two – the hitting coach is – he came from the Cardinals.
42:51Or is that the bench coach?
42:52I'm not sure.
42:53It looks to me that they're guys with only – not major league experience, and I think that this club is heading more towards analytics in their preparation, which is fine.
43:06And there's good things you can glean from analytics.
43:10And – but – so we'll see.
43:12It's unfortunate.
43:13I liked – all the coaches were great, but, you know, they got moved, and it's a new look, and we'll see where it goes.
43:23Well, Keith, as John said earlier, we're hoping that the look in the booth stays exactly the same as it's been for a couple of decades now because it would mean Keith Hernandez is still part of it.
43:34I'm sure that is what's going to happen.
43:35And I hope it's never just taken as a thing you say on the way out is – John and I do appreciate you always joining us.
43:42It's always great to chat with you, and we always get great insights.
43:46So, Keith, thank you so much for joining us on the show.
43:48Okay.
43:49This was a tough interview because of the season.
43:52You know, we're talking about this disappointing season.
43:54Where are they going to go forward?
43:56And there's going to be some – I think there's going to be some major moves.
44:00And I'm just – I got my eyes and ears to the ground.
44:03Yeah, which means that sometime over the next few months, you're going to get a text message from me or John saying, hey, would you like to be on the show again?
44:11Of course.
44:12I'm at your disposal.
44:15I am completely – you let me know I'm on.
44:18Thanks so much, Keith.
44:19We always appreciate it.
44:20John and I, of course, thank Keith Hernandez for joining the show.
44:29John from Dodger Stadium, hit or error?
44:32I'm going to give a hit to John Schneider.
44:34It was a year ago I said the Blue Jays aren't very good or maybe a little over a year ago in the middle of the 2024 season.
44:40I didn't like the way they were playing.
44:42They've obviously outperformed everybody's expectations.
44:46He's obviously motivating them.
44:47I think his strategy has been good.
44:49Walking Ohtani worked for a long time in that game.
44:54I did think maybe we didn't need a pinch runner for every situation, that lineup that the Blue Jays were throwing out there in the 18 innings at the end of it.
45:03And it was not that great.
45:04But, you know, obviously he's got them here as we do this in a best of three against the L.A. – $400 million L.A. Dodgers.
45:12So I'm going to give John Schneider credit.
45:13I feel a little guilty, too.
45:15So I owe it to him to say something nice.
45:17They've had a great season, no matter how this finishes.
45:20Yeah.
45:21Amen, John.
45:22And anybody who sees it, this is true if you deal with them one-on-one.
45:27But in these big press conferences, he gives great press conference, John Schneider.
45:31He's not cliched.
45:33He's insightful and interesting and well-spoken on all subjects.
45:37But, yeah, this has been a great October for the Blue Jays and for their manager.
45:43John, I don't know if it's a hit or error, but I'm going to give it to David Stearns because, as we discussed with Keith, this was not a great year for the Mets.
45:52Certainly not a great ending for the Mets.
45:54And the people who took the brunt of this was the coaching staff, many of whom were key members of a team that went to Game 6 of the NLCS the year before.
46:03And in the case of Anton Richardson, you know, I believe the Mets had, for 162-game season, the best stolen base percentage in the history of the major leagues.
46:14And to a man, the credit, a large part of the credit went to Anton Richardson, their first base coach.
46:22Clearly, Juan Soto had affinity for this.
46:24Juan Soto is a guy who's going to be around quite a while.
46:27If you look at the contract, I think he liked this coach, and the Mets appear like they're not going to have a reunion with him.
46:35So in his big-picture plan, for whatever the reasons, to kind of lay this on the coaching staff, you know, we don't think about coaches often.
46:43We think about the guy who runs baseball operations and the manager, in this case, Carlos Mendoza.
46:48He's changing a lot of coaches.
46:50I'd be curious if a year from now we say that's a hit or an error.
46:54Yeah, well, anything associated with the Mets this year, I'm going to give an error or two.
46:59So it didn't work, right?
47:00Whatever they're doing is not working.
47:02I'm not surprised they changed coaches.
47:04Mendoza's not going anywhere.
47:05He had that first great year, and I think everybody likes him very much and respects him.
47:10And we knew they were not getting rid of him.
47:12Stearns has got three more years at $10 million.
47:15And beyond that, you know, he's been kind of characterized as a genius, so they're not going to get rid of him.
47:21He did have that great first year as well.
47:22But whatever he did the second year, it did not work.
47:26It's still working for Milwaukee's team, whatever he set up there.
47:30But this year, I don't want to pin all on Montas, but Montas, Minaya, these signings did not work.
47:37I don't think those were the coaching staff's fault.
47:40We're not shocked that they're the ones that are going.
47:42I do think Hefner is a very good pitching coach.
47:45He certainly works harder than just about anybody.
47:48I'm not sure what happened to the pitching.
47:50I don't think their lab must be as great as they make it out to be, but beyond that, I don't know.
47:55But it's been a bad year.
47:57And Antoine Richardson, I mean, he got so much credit.
48:02He even turned Juan Soto into a base dealer.
48:05And it's kind of odd that they don't make sure to do what's, you know, keep him somehow.
48:11I mean, obviously, there has to be a limit.
48:13The first base coach is probably not going to make a million dollars, no matter how good a base running coach he is.
48:20So maybe that was it.
48:21I don't know.
48:22I'm really not sure about it.
48:24But, yeah, to me, it's a negative that he's not coming back.
48:29Yeah, it was a little surprising.
48:32You know, again, we don't think about coaches that often.
48:35I'm sorry for that.
48:35They're so important.
48:36To your point, they all work pretty hard.
48:38And I agree with you about how hard Jeremy Hefner worked.
48:41But it is an interesting, like, how much of this season got laid on them and what the decision will be moving forward.
48:48John, on the subject of hard workers, Tommy Hogan, our producer, as always, you and I are all over the country and trying to nail down guests.
48:57And Tommy is always a snap of the fingers joining us and helping us through this.
49:01So thank you to Tommy Hogan, Apple, Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts.
49:06Please rate and review us.
49:07The New York Post YouTube's sports page.
49:10Give us a view because John's background, especially maybe that moment where the police dogs went by sniffing to see if John had brought any contractors into the ballpark.
49:20There might have been fence climbing.
49:25Let's not talk about this, John.
49:26Your athleticism, well, might have been, might have been.
49:30Anyway, John obviously really did go to a lot to get onto the show today on time.
49:37So we could fit the, the, the, the thread through the needle and, and be able to do the show this week.
49:42So I thank John as always as my partner in this, and we always appreciate the fans.
49:47Please stick with us on the show with Joel Sherman and John Heyman.
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