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00:00:00I think they're good enough to play winning baseball at a pretty good clip without Judge.
00:00:07And then that gives them even more comfort in slow-playing Judge and Freed,
00:00:13who are so important to if they're going to get to the Canyon to hear it.
00:00:18It's a drive by Derby Dawson.
00:00:21Charles Chisholm goes deep.
00:00:27Hello, welcome to the Pitchstripe Post.
00:00:29My name is Ryan Sampson, but he's the star of the show, Joel Sherman.
00:00:31Today is Tuesday, June 9th.
00:00:33We're back here to talk Yankees baseball.
00:00:36Joel got a great interview with Aaron Boone yesterday on the show.
00:00:39I got to plug it right now.
00:00:40Go listen, Yankees fans.
00:00:41It's a good conversation.
00:00:43Joel and John get to talk to Boone about where the Yankees are right now after the Judge injury.
00:00:47We're going to discuss a lot of that here in today's episode on where this Yankees team is going after
00:00:51this Judge injury.
00:00:52But before I get to any of that, as always, on a Tuesday, how are you doing today, Joel?
00:00:58Good.
00:00:59I was out and about this morning.
00:01:01I like to get out as early as possible, Mover.
00:01:03You know, when you're old, you like to move around a little bit if the day's nice.
00:01:06And I'll just say the city's a little sadder this morning than it's been recently.
00:01:10Yeah, vibes are a little down right now after the Knicks get their first loss after reeling off 13 straight
00:01:15wins.
00:01:16But, look, they're still up 2-1 in the series.
00:01:19Very good chance tomorrow night to really put a nail in the coffin, I think, in the Spurs if they
00:01:24can win tomorrow night.
00:01:25But, Joel, the running back Yankees are winning some baseball games right now because of two guys that you were
00:01:32so keen on in the offseason that they brought back in Cody Bellinger and Paul Goldschmidt.
00:01:37They keep doing it, Joel.
00:01:39We're not surprised what Cody Bellinger's doing.
00:01:41I think the Paul Goldschmidt of it all is a little bit surprising at how much he's contributing so far
00:01:45early on this season.
00:01:46But how about the fact that these two players are really leading this offense right now lately with the running
00:01:53back Yankees?
00:01:54Besides Ben Rice, obviously, but those two guys.
00:01:57Yeah.
00:01:58I mean, I think they're getting from a few more guys.
00:02:00But, yes.
00:02:01Look, I think you know how appreciative I am.
00:02:05If anyone's listened, I never seem to want to be a broken record.
00:02:09You know, we've been doing this for over the course of three seasons now.
00:02:13And I think, you know, between the 24 and 25 season, I came on and said the one player they
00:02:18need to go get is Cody Bellinger.
00:02:21And, I mean, huge fan of the player.
00:02:24As last season ended into the offseason and I heard all the Kyle Tucker stuff, I said, I must be
00:02:31missing something.
00:02:32I'm like, I watch Cody Bellinger play all the time.
00:02:34I saw a ton of big series between the Yankees and the Astros.
00:02:37I didn't even know Kyle Tucker was playing in those series.
00:02:41Now, part of that is Jose Altuve was and Jordan Alvarez was and Jeremy Pena was and Alex Bregman was.
00:02:48But, like, there were not moments where I said, wow, look at that guy.
00:02:51And I said, I just spent the season 162 games watching Cody Bellinger play.
00:02:56And you feel his presence with all the traditional tools.
00:03:01Hit, hit for power, you know, run, field, throw, etc.
00:03:06But how about baseball IQ?
00:03:09How about aptitude?
00:03:10How about you can play here?
00:03:11How about left on left?
00:03:13How about big situations?
00:03:16I was really informed.
00:03:17I'm not going to say the name of the player, but early in my career, when I was a beat
00:03:22guy, the Yankees acquired a guy with a big outfield arm.
00:03:26And one of the things I noticed right away is that big outfield arm really played if the score was
00:03:316-1.
00:03:32But if it was 2-2 in Fenway in the eighth inning, it didn't play quite as well.
00:03:37I would challenge Yankee fans to think in their mind of all the big throws Cody Bellinger has made in
00:03:42a season plus in real game situations.
00:03:47Like, that's part of it also is you can't just tell me who has an arm.
00:03:50This is, like, this is why I'm not anti-analytical at all.
00:03:56But you also have to watch the games and see who applies their skills and applies them in big spots.
00:04:03And I think Cody Bellinger is a big spot, not afraid player.
00:04:08It doesn't mean you succeed all the time.
00:04:09Derek Jeter was a big spot player.
00:04:12He didn't succeed all the time.
00:04:13What I knew about him was the moment would not overwhelm the player.
00:04:19I don't think any moment overwhelms Cody Bellinger.
00:04:24And we're talking about a player who can apply five tools to not being overwhelmed at all times, plus a
00:04:31high baseball IQ, plus aptitude and attitude.
00:04:34So I just think he's a really, really good â like, whatever that term means to you, I think he's
00:04:40a baseball player.
00:04:41I think he's just a really good baseball player.
00:04:43He just does things on the field that are good.
00:04:44And by the way, in his own way at 37, so is Paul Goldschmidt.
00:04:49You know, like, when Paul Goldschmidt was young, he'd steal 20 bases.
00:04:52He obviously has lost his foot speed.
00:04:55But how about beating out the double play yesterday, Joel?
00:04:57I mean, he's hustling down first base.
00:05:00Look, we obviously, again, can name names of all the guys who don't play with the right amount of passion
00:05:07on a daily basis.
00:05:09Like, you know, on MLB Network yesterday, they showed a highlight of Juan Soto not beating out â he was,
00:05:17you know, trotting to first base.
00:05:19There was a bobble at second base.
00:05:21And then he tried to turn it on late, and he didn't beat it out.
00:05:24And my line always is, hey, I'm not saying you have to impress the scouts on every play.
00:05:29But there's major league effort to run to first base.
00:05:34And you know what major league effort is to me?
00:05:36It's if the ball gets bobbled, you'll be safe.
00:05:38So I'm not talking about you having to risk blowing out your hamstring.
00:05:41If you can't run 95 percent without risking your hamstring, you probably shouldn't play in the major leagues.
00:05:47And if you can't do that three to five times a day, if you happen to hit three to five
00:05:51ground balls, then you probably shouldn't play in the major leagues either.
00:05:55And I just think that Paul Goldschmidt honors the idea of it's precious to play baseball, and if bad is
00:06:01precious, base runners are precious, runs are precious, trying to win a game is precious.
00:06:06And within the context of that, I'm going to do everything conceivable to try to win the game, including give
00:06:12a really good effort on even routine plays.
00:06:15Because baseball is about one routine play connecting the dots to the next one.
00:06:19And whoever does that really well for 162 games usually wins at least the regular season.
00:06:25And I think it shows up in the postseason as well.
00:06:27No doubt, Joel.
00:06:29I wonder, and this is something I've been pondering a little bit, see if there is a similarity here.
00:06:35But Cody Bellinger, I think the more and more I see of him, Joel, he just feels like a transplant
00:06:41from the 90s Yankees.
00:06:42Like, that's a player that you would be like, does, like you said, does everything right, no matter what, like
00:06:48just knows how to play baseball in the right situations.
00:06:50The guy has a very cool calmness about him, but at the same time, when the big moments are happening,
00:06:55he's in tune and he knows where he's going with the ball, whether it's defensively or offensively.
00:07:00He can beat out ground balls to second if he has to beat out a double play, runs the bases
00:07:05so well, hits for average, hits for power and clutch.
00:07:08Like, he just reminds me of something from the 90s Yankees dynasty transplanted here into 2026.
00:07:14Is there any comp that comes to mind when it comes to Cody Bellinger and what you're seeing right now?
00:07:19Right.
00:07:19I mean, there is some Paul O'Neill in there, right, in that, you know, not a power hitter, but
00:07:26could hit for power, could hit for average.
00:07:29Paul learned over time to hit left on left a lot better.
00:07:32He wasn't real good at it.
00:07:33When he became a Yankee, he got much better.
00:07:36I mean, I think the Bellinger difference is Paul did not play hard at all times.
00:07:41I know he got nicknamed the warrior, but he could, you know, Juan Soto, a ground ball and then hit
00:07:47a water cooler and act like he was mad about it.
00:07:49But like, like there was not full effort all the time there.
00:07:52I don't think he could effortlessly move to center field.
00:07:56But I mean, Paul was like Bellinger, a naturally great athlete.
00:08:00I mean, Paul O'Neill used to play tennis with Jim Currier, the tennis player, the professional, you know, who's
00:08:05a champion level tennis player at a high level.
00:08:09I hear he's a great golfer.
00:08:10I mean, he was a great basketball player in high school.
00:08:12And you could just see that in Cody Bellinger, right, that that if we said, hey, you have to learn
00:08:18a sport in a week and we had to pick a Yankee to learn that sport, we'd probably pick, you
00:08:25know, in 1998, we might pick O'Neill.
00:08:29I might pick Mariano Rivera, but you might pick O'Neill.
00:08:33I think you'd pick Bellinger today.
00:08:35Bellinger or Max Freed.
00:08:36Yeah.
00:08:37I think you'd pick.
00:08:38And then Paul Goldschmidt, you know, something you had brought up, I think, maybe three or four weeks ago.
00:08:44And you're like, Ryan, I'd be a little weary about playing him every day.
00:08:46Well, because of the injuries the Yankees have right now, he is being forced into an everyday role.
00:08:52Granted, he is producing, which is great.
00:08:54And you take what you can get from Paul Goldschmidt at this age.
00:08:58Is there any concern over the next couple, I would say, month now as we wait for Judge and Stanton,
00:09:04Dominguez and all these other guys to come back that Paul might wear down just because of the age factor?
00:09:10Yes, I think we saw that last year where the second half wasn't quite as good as the first.
00:09:17You are in an urgent situation now where you need to probably get the best bat you can into your
00:09:21lineup because no matter who you use a catcher right now, it's going to be pretty much an out.
00:09:26So your shortstop situation is close to an out on a regular basis.
00:09:32So you probably need, you can't just give away whatever.
00:09:35I would be very conscious of using when there is an off day, either the day before or the day
00:09:40after trying to get, you know, just suck it up.
00:09:43Take it as, you know, if you want to have Goldschmidt for the long term.
00:09:48But one of, again, his professional elements is he is in great shape for any age, notably his age as
00:10:00an athlete.
00:10:01And I'm sure he's one of these people who thinks day and night about sleep and nutrition and agility and
00:10:10weight training in season and how to travel correctly.
00:10:14And so I think he's a pro's pro.
00:10:18I think it's one of the reasons the run it back Yankees ran it back with him was that there
00:10:23was great value to the player inside their room.
00:10:27He is extremely close with the captain of the team.
00:10:31I'm sure the captain of the team was very much an advocate for bringing him back.
00:10:36And I know he had better offers than four million dollars, which is the other thing.
00:10:42You'd like a player who plays anywhere, but specifically in New York, to want to be here.
00:10:49And Paul Goldschmidt, I think, attitudinally, like a lot of these Yankees, really felt like they left food on the
00:10:55table last year and wanted and I think wanted to run it back because they thought they should have gone
00:11:02further and done more, that they were a better team.
00:11:05And I think that it helps, you know, like I think they have, you know, will they get to the
00:11:10finish line?
00:11:10I don't know that they clearly have holes that they're going to have to address as the season goes along
00:11:15internally and externally.
00:11:17I don't think that they're clowning themselves.
00:11:19They see the same problems that everybody sees.
00:11:23But it is a very good team.
00:11:26And Paul Goldschmidt has added to it.
00:11:28Can I throw in one other thing?
00:11:30Sure.
00:11:31He, I think he's a Hall of Fame player.
00:11:34He really stacks up pretty well as about 90 to 95 percent of Jeff Bagwell to me.
00:11:39Very similar type player.
00:11:41Bagwell in his day could really run the bases.
00:11:43I think they're going to finish with similar number of homers.
00:11:47Really good, excellent defensive first baseman.
00:11:50You know, usually at this point in your career, you've stopped adding on for the Hall of Fame.
00:11:56I think Paul Goldschmidt's helping himself right now.
00:11:59And look, he has one other real secret power that really, really helps the Yankees over the last year plus.
00:12:06Murdering lefties.
00:12:07Murdering lefty pitching.
00:12:09And he knows lefty pitching.
00:12:10And by the way, nobody really hits lefty pitching much, left on left, much better than Bellinger.
00:12:17Especially for average.
00:12:18Like, there's guys like Schwarber or Rice who will pop homers left on left.
00:12:23But Bellinger gives you a lot of everything.
00:12:26Yeah, I completely agree with you, Joel.
00:12:28I mean, Paul is just continuing to hit lefties, like you said.
00:12:32No, it's all, Ryan, you know, it's one of the things I hope it's an insight for the people who
00:12:38are nice enough to watch.
00:12:39Which is, baseball is a very, very long, it is a much more physical game than people realize.
00:12:47Because if you hurt your pinky on day one, because you play every day, your pinky hurts all year.
00:12:53Your big toe, your rib, whatever it is you hurt.
00:12:56So there's a physicality to the game that is just about the withering effect of it.
00:13:01But the withering effect really is mentally, spiritually, you know, think about the Mets this season.
00:13:08By the first week in June, they had played four West Coast road trips.
00:13:12You know, you need some, like, yes, do they fly better than everybody else in the world?
00:13:17Pretty much, yes.
00:13:18Are they put up at great hotels?
00:13:20Yes.
00:13:20But there is a withering effect on changing time zones and day game, night game, the whole thing.
00:13:25And what you need in your room are people who have experienced it all and are zero excuse players who
00:13:36can look at your group and say, the schedule is the schedule, the injuries are the injuries, our standard is
00:13:42our standard, and we're not deviating.
00:13:44And I think that when the Yankees bring back players like Ahmad Rosario and Paul Goldschmidt, they bring back attitudinal
00:13:52veterans who understand the withering impact of the season and what professionalism and in Rosario's case, enthusiasm and camaraderie and
00:14:05being a good teammate who lifts up your guy in a bad time, what that means over eight, nine months
00:14:11of this grind.
00:14:12And I think that that's part of team building also that could get missed.
00:14:17And I don't think the Yankees missed it with this group.
00:14:20Whatever other failings are there, I don't think that's a failing.
00:14:24I completely agree with you, Joel.
00:14:26Listen, Goldschmidt himself slugging 526.
00:14:29He's got eight homers already this year, 143 OPS plus.
00:14:34Right now, that's above his career numbers in terms of slug and OPS plus.
00:14:39Versus left-handed pitching, he's got a 1.292 OPS.
00:14:43He's absolutely killing left-handed pitching.
00:14:45He's been awesome for the Yankees early on.
00:14:47He's providing some much-needed production for this lineup.
00:14:50Like you said, that's missing two of its big power bats in Judge and Stanton.
00:14:54Now let's pivot to the judge factor of it all, Joel, because look, last week was a tough blow for
00:15:00the Yanks in terms of, you're talking about the best batter in baseball, you can argue.
00:15:03This guy is so important and so vital for where this team wants to go, ultimately.
00:15:08You were worried about the thoracic outlet syndrome when those things started coming up and the rumors of what this
00:15:13injury could be because he's going for more testing and imaging.
00:15:16We find out it's a stress fracture.
00:15:19How do the Yankees get by, Joel, over the next, let's call it six to eight weeks until August, maybe
00:15:25September, depending on when the judge comes back because he's not putting a timeline on it, which he's made it
00:15:29very clear.
00:15:30How do they get by?
00:15:32Do they add more bats before at that deadline time?
00:15:36Or are they just going to stick internally because I think a lot of Yankees fans are looking around, Joel,
00:15:41and saying this is an incredibly weak American league.
00:15:43And the Yankees might get lucky here, the fact of how weak it is, that they can get by with
00:15:49internal additions.
00:15:50But I'm interested to hear what you think about where they are right now.
00:15:54Yeah, you know, number one, it isn't the Yankees not making moves right now.
00:15:59Nobody's making trades right now.
00:16:01Part of that is a reflection that, I don't know what it is today, but yesterday there were 12 teams
00:16:08in the National League that were either in the playoffs or within three and a half games of the playoffs.
00:16:13By the way, the Mets were none of those.
00:16:14They were five back.
00:16:16And I think that they're not done.
00:16:18You know, I think there's a pathway for them to kind of crawl back to 500.
00:16:23And if you're 500-ish by, like, the July 4th weekend, maybe a little after that, you've got some shot
00:16:31at this.
00:16:33So I think they've, you know, obviously this is not a Mets webcast, but, like, just as an idea of
00:16:37how many teams.
00:16:38And to your point, the American League is so bad, nobody's going to want to give up because they're all
00:16:44going to think we're a week away from being a week away.
00:16:48Like, the Tigers don't want to trade Tarek Skubal.
00:16:53They're going to need to be forced to trade him.
00:16:56The Astros are the team to watch to me because they're fascinating.
00:17:01I think they're the most fascinating team in the sport as we move towards late July because their owner has
00:17:08said we'll never rebuild.
00:17:10On the other hand, I think that they've just gone through the best 10-year period in the franchise's history,
00:17:17which include two championships and, you know, another trip, right, against the Nationals in 19 â it was in 19.
00:17:27So this has been a great period for them.
00:17:29Won the division a bunch.
00:17:31I think made the playoffs seven or eight straight years.
00:17:34And they could, like, rest on that laurels and say, time to reload and do another 10 years because clearly
00:17:41what's happened is the drip, drip, drip of their good players either aging or leaving.
00:17:46And the reason I bring them up is, say, Hunter Brown and Jeremy Painter, their shortstop and their ace, those
00:17:56are both Scott Boris clients who are free agents after the 2027 season, so after next season.
00:18:02If the Astros have to look in the mirror and say, between now and the end of next season, are
00:18:07we contenders and do we think we can extend a Scott Boris client at this level?
00:18:13I think the answer is probably no on both of those.
00:18:15So do those guys get out into the marketplace?
00:18:20Your Don Alvarez runs through next year as well.
00:18:24Same questions.
00:18:26Are you extending him?
00:18:27Do you think you're good enough between now and the end of the 2027 season?
00:18:32Josh Hader is through next season.
00:18:35You know, I'm starting to name some players probably in Pena and Hader where the Yankees should have some real
00:18:40interest if they get out into the marketplace.
00:18:46Isak Parade, third baseman.
00:18:49Christian Walker, first baseman.
00:18:51Again, these are guys, every player I just mentioned is a free agent after the 2027 season.
00:18:56So, like, their value is great because let's just hope and pray we have a baseball season next year.
00:19:03You get them for a year plus if you get them.
00:19:07And if the Astros trade well, they would leave the marketplace with the best prospect group in baseball by far.
00:19:16Will their owner do that?
00:19:19And, you know, how far would they go?
00:19:22But they have five or six very, very attractive players who are all signed through next year that there's â
00:19:31and when you think about the buckets, first baseman, shortstop, third baseman, high-end starting pitcher, closer.
00:19:38If we say there are 16 serious contenders in the sport who would like to add at the deadline, there's
00:19:45no way that the Astros can't contact every team in some way and say, well, this is what we like
00:19:50from this.
00:19:51And I think I picked out the two areas, especially Hader probably, who would be in great demand in a
00:19:57lot of â as long as he's healthy.
00:19:58He just came back.
00:19:59He hadn't pitched for the first two-plus months of the season.
00:20:02He's back.
00:20:03And if the â you know, do the Yankees actually make a daring move and get a shortstop and just
00:20:09decide everything they have isn't really working?
00:20:12Volpe, Caballero, et cetera, and Dupena, who, by the way, was the MVP of both an ALCS and World Series
00:20:19a couple of years ago.
00:20:20So, you know he could play in big, big moments.
00:20:24Because I think the bullpen is their much more likely way that they're going to try to do things.
00:20:28But I use them as an example.
00:20:30Sure.
00:20:30But having spoke to some people, like, they don't want to give up because they look at the AL West
00:20:37and they say, is anyone here good?
00:20:39Yeah.
00:20:39Like, why can't â because, again, everyone's going to convince themselves that they're a week away from being a week
00:20:44away.
00:20:45Yeah, and we still have more games to play to get there, right, Joel?
00:20:48And there's a long time between now and August 3rd, which is the deadline this year is August 3rd.
00:20:53So, if you'll allow me, I actually think the most important thing the Yankees are going to do in the
00:21:02next month is improve internally.
00:21:04Yep.
00:21:05If they can.
00:21:06Yep.
00:21:06So, what does that look like?
00:21:08I think Jason Dominguez is going to come back this weekend.
00:21:12Okay.
00:21:12For the Yankees.
00:21:14This is a big moment for him.
00:21:16He's going to get run in some way.
00:21:20You know, when you talk about, like, how do you put Goldschmidt on the bench?
00:21:23Well, it's a little easier if Rice is at first and Dominguez is your DH.
00:21:27You know, and I think Stanton's maybe 10 days away.
00:21:30So, like, Stanton, you know, like, they'll have more bats to try to weather Judge.
00:21:36But part of that is, can Dominguez or Spencer Jones or both give them something which would either improve their
00:21:45future or improve their trade value if you want to go out in the marketplace?
00:21:49Like, again, I know it never matters if I say, aggregators, please don't.
00:21:55But, like, if you had Dominguez as a trade ship, because ultimately you decided, whatever we do, we're going to
00:22:04play fully healthy Judge in right, Grishman center, and Bellinger in left.
00:22:08And even though we're watching all the strikeouts, we believe Jones is a part of the future.
00:22:14If Dominguez has a good month, does he become a tradable player?
00:22:19You know, where you can turn, like, because even a rebuilding team, Houston, whoever, a restocking team, Dominguez has a
00:22:26lot of time to free agency and he's plug and play.
00:22:29You could put him on the field right now.
00:22:31So, like, can he help you one way or the other?
00:22:34So, I think it's an important month coming up for Jason Dominguez.
00:22:38Stay healthy, produce.
00:22:40All right?
00:22:40Sometime in the next, I would say it's going to take about at least a month.
00:22:44And we talked about this.
00:22:46If you listen to the show that, you know, the podcast I do with my partner, John Heyman, Aaron Boone
00:22:51made it sound like a month at least to get Lagrange ready to relieve.
00:22:56So, if you notice, I believe, don't hold me to this, I believe he's pitching tonight as a reliever.
00:23:01However, his first relief outing was not a true relief outing.
00:23:05It was down to four innings.
00:23:07And I think they're doing what their internal organization, and maybe this is a wide-ranging term, is called deloading.
00:23:13They don't want to go from throwing 100 pitches to throwing 20 pitches.
00:23:17So, they're bringing them down.
00:23:19And part of the reason they're bringing them down is, at some point, they're going to have to decide, is
00:23:23Carlos Lagrange a relief pitcher who we want to use multiple times a week, an inning at a time?
00:23:30Or is he more in the Chad Green, Michael King, wanting to use them for six or so outs?
00:23:40Maybe that tough part in the middle, your starter only goes five, and now the top of the lineup is
00:23:45due in the six.
00:23:47Can you bring Lagrange in to do the six and seven?
00:23:50I think that that's probably his likely role to begin, and then they'll see how that goes.
00:23:57And if you told me he folded into pitching the eighth or ninth inning as it went along, I wouldn't
00:24:01be surprised.
00:24:02Now, this is all based, again, on, one, does he stay healthy doing a new role?
00:24:07Two, does he take to a new role and do it well?
00:24:10But if he does, I think that the Yankees' preference, I think the Yankees will trade for a reliever or
00:24:17relievers, but I think the Yankees' preference is that some of the answer for moving ultimately probably Jake Bird back
00:24:26to the minors and Paul Blackburn or Ryan Yarbrough off the roster or whatever they're planning to do is internal.
00:24:35If Max Fried comes back, a starter, they are very â they don't want to say it out loud because
00:24:42it's far enough away, but they're very excited about the possibility of Clark Schmidt helping them over the last, like,
00:24:4950 games of the season, 50, 60 games of the season, late July, early August.
00:24:53Because I think they think that Clark won't blink in a big spot if he's healthy and that he might
00:24:59also be this kind of hybrid guy who, hey, top of the lineup, two innings.
00:25:04Can you go out and do it?
00:25:06Now, again, it's Tommy John surgery.
00:25:08Control command comes back last.
00:25:10Can he do it?
00:25:11It's a new role.
00:25:12It's a serious injury.
00:25:13But they have some internal ways to at least try before doing the very tricky thing of going out into
00:25:20a marketplace where there's going to be not a lot of sellers right away and tons and tons of buyers,
00:25:26so it's going to be hard to get things.
00:25:28Right.
00:25:29I think they get things.
00:25:30Their history is they get things.
00:25:31When they're good, and I think they're good, but, like, the first thing is if I were a Yankee fan,
00:25:38I'd be really hoping Jason Dominguez is a good player for the next month.
00:25:41Look, Joel, you could argue the Yankees were the best in baseball when Dominguez was healthy and helping contribute to
00:25:47the team with him and Stanton, or when Stanton went out and the Dominguez came up.
00:25:51It's like this lineup looks athletic.
00:25:53It looks fun.
00:25:54It looks fast.
00:25:55He made some damage from the right side of the plate as well.
00:25:58I just wonder, yeah, can he take a hold of this opportunity that's coming up hopefully next weekend when he
00:26:04comes up?
00:26:04And it's like the keys.
00:26:06This weekend, I think.
00:26:07This weekend.
00:26:08But, like, the keys are yours, bud.
00:26:10See what you can do.
00:26:11Run with this spot because you might earn yourself some serious playing time here and force our hand to give
00:26:16you more at-bats because I think the talent is there.
00:26:18I think we've seen some of it, like, on a surface level.
00:26:22It just needs to get more and stay healthy.
00:26:24That's the big thing with him.
00:26:25Just stay healthy on the field to make an impact.
00:26:28What's interesting, Joel, is what you mentioned there about if Stanton comes back in 10 days, I wonder how does
00:26:35that balance work out with a Dominguez?
00:26:37Because you still have, in this scenario, Grishman center, Bellinger, I guess you would slide over to right because I
00:26:43heard Boone does not want to take Dominguez out of left field because they've been trying to work him in
00:26:47left field a bunch.
00:26:48I think Dominguez stays in left and Bellinger, again, one of the values of Bellinger is he seamlessly moves left,
00:26:58center, right.
00:26:58Now, in left field, I'm not sure I ever thought I'd see somebody play it at Yankee Stadium better than
00:27:07Brett Gardner, and I actually think Bellinger is better than Brett Gardner out there, which is really a high compliment
00:27:15because the one thing Bellinger brings that Gardner didn't is an arm to be able to shut some stuff down
00:27:23from out there.
00:27:24But it's tough, especially Yankee Stadium, which is a tough left field, especially in daytime, it's tough to move someone
00:27:32out of there.
00:27:32But I think they're committed to Dominguez and left and hoping he'll be at least major league average out there
00:27:37and maybe not run into a wall again and get hurt.
00:27:42You know, injuries have been an issue for him, not being able to kind of like extend fully a real
00:27:48run to show what's in there.
00:27:51Yeah, because again, if what's in there, I think this is something I've said on the show quite a bit.
00:27:57I think Jason Dominguez is a 20 homer, 20 steal, 750 OPS player, because I actually think he'll draw some
00:28:05walks.
00:28:06I think he has a real good feel for the strike zone.
00:28:08If he had not been nicknamed the Martian, most teams would say, where do I sign up for that?
00:28:13That is value.
00:28:14Switch hitter, speed, like, so can he actually, I'm not expecting greatness.
00:28:21I am expecting goodness.
00:28:23And goodness has to include being major league average in left field.
00:28:28I'm not sure he's there.
00:28:29We'll see.
00:28:30But a 2020 guy who has a good eye could run, switch hitter, especially if he doesn't give in on
00:28:37at-bats against lefties, which he wasn't earlier this season.
00:28:40It wasn't a very big sample size, but yeah, I, I think there's a good baseball player in him.
00:28:47Will he stay healthy enough and kind of like have that mental durability to kind of like grind through it
00:28:54and be that player?
00:28:56Does Jones get sent down when Dominguez comes up or do they keep both of those guys up since they
00:29:01are down judge in the outfield?
00:29:04And what do you think that move will look like?
00:29:08I, I, look, I wouldn't send down Max Schumann because I think he's actually helped them as a kind of
00:29:16extra guy who could move around, run a little, like a good 26th man.
00:29:21Yeah.
00:29:22A little better player than I thought he was.
00:29:24He's got a good eye.
00:29:26Yes.
00:29:26Could draw some walks, could run, can handle a bunch of positions.
00:29:31So he would not be.
00:29:32So really then it becomes like, do you send down Volpe or Jones?
00:29:35That's kind of where I was going here, Joel.
00:29:37I think, I think they'll send down Jones.
00:29:39Cause I think once Stanton comes back, it'll be very hard to find at-bats for, for Jones.
00:29:44And I think Stanton is again, without, this is Stanton.
00:29:48There's a lot of injuries in his thing, but without a lot of.
00:29:52Um, um, DH opportunities.
00:29:56Yeah.
00:29:57Without a lot of places to play.
00:29:59Right.
00:30:00I, I think they just want Jones to keep getting at-bats at this point.
00:30:04Look, my strong suspicion is Spencer Jones is not going to be good enough at this.
00:30:11Uh, but we, I, I, I just always say, if you have the mental memory of what Aaron judge looked
00:30:20like in the back two months of 2016, where he struck out, I think in exactly half of his
00:30:26at-bats and 40% of his plate appearances, uh, you do have to remember that big guys probably
00:30:33take, it was interesting.
00:30:35One of the comparisons that, um, Aaron Boone made on the show yesterday on the podcast was
00:30:41he talked about Randy Johnson was terrible until he became Randy Johnson.
00:30:45Right.
00:30:46I, in other words, like he couldn't coordinate the six foot 10 body.
00:30:49He tried a lot of motions.
00:30:51And then I think it was Nolan Ryan gave him a cue that worked for finding his delivery.
00:30:57Uh, and then there were four Cy Young awards and championships.
00:31:01Uh, and so to me, uh, will Spencer Jones do that?
00:31:06I just think the problem for the Yankees is the Yankees can't afford the growing pains.
00:31:11Really?
00:31:12Like even in a week, American league, you can't send up somebody to strike out 45% of the time.
00:31:16You just can't.
00:31:18I think that's who he's going to be for a while.
00:31:20I, the, the reality is he might end up being something, but it was going to be very hard to
00:31:25be something here.
00:31:27It's loud.
00:31:27Every time he touches the ball though, Joe, like that's the one thing you're like, he
00:31:30gets so tantalized by, but, but, but by the way, like, I'm not saying trade him.
00:31:35I'm just saying it's, it's probably not tomorrow.
00:31:40If he's going to lock into an approach, a swing, a setup, et cetera, that is going to
00:31:46drop his strikeouts to 32, 33, 34, whatever the acceptable percentages, um, that's going to
00:31:53take a lot of major league at bats to see the stuff.
00:31:56It's like, it's, it's just, you're not going to get it.
00:31:58It's grant and Wilkes-Barre.
00:32:00Uh, you'll get some of it, but not enough.
00:32:02You're not going to see the, I mean, the stuff is so great in the major leagues right now.
00:32:07And I mean, there's nothing that looks like Gavin Williams in, in Scranton, 100 miles per
00:32:12hour up and in.
00:32:13And you're like, dude, it's tough for a big guy to get to that type of pitch.
00:32:16I mean, again, the first game you come up, like if we were saying, which pitcher would
00:32:22you least like to see on any day of the week, no matter how, whatever, it would be probably
00:32:28Jason Mizorowski certainly being on the shortlist.
00:32:30And that's who he saw his first game.
00:32:31It's just, it's the major leagues.
00:32:32And that's why I talk about mental durability all the time, because it's day after day.
00:32:37And then there's certain days, Jason Mizorowski shows up in your life and you're just trying
00:32:40to grind to be like, how do we get three runs off of them?
00:32:43How does our starting pitcher keep us in a game?
00:32:46How do we make him throw pitches to get to the bullpen, et cetera?
00:32:50And that's why, again, good veterans matter for this, to help someone like Spencer Jones
00:32:56to say, hey man, you fouled off two, three, and two pitches.
00:32:59You made the guy throw eight pitches.
00:33:01That's eight of the 95 they're going to let him throw today.
00:33:04There's a victory in the loss.
00:33:06And that's what veterans do to prop a guy up.
00:33:11So I just think it's going to be very, very hard.
00:33:15Like to me, Spencer Jones probably needed Trent Grisham or Bellinger to get hurt.
00:33:21So, cause then you'd just be like, hey, I need the defense out there and you're just
00:33:26going to play them.
00:33:29But I just think they have other ways to go here.
00:33:32And I think Grisham's at back quality.
00:33:35The numbers are starting to get perk up a little bit to meet what was underneath the hood
00:33:39for most of the first two months.
00:33:41So you probably, especially with Judge Out, don't want him out of the lineup.
00:33:44The at-bats are good.
00:33:47So I think it will be Jones and just be like, hey man, keep working at it.
00:33:53Keep working at it.
00:33:54Cause again, like he'll come into play in July.
00:33:57One, you know, teams will ask because if it, to your point, it's loud.
00:34:04If it ever clicked, it's an athletic center fielder who might be able to hit 40 homers.
00:34:08But it's, it's the apprenticeship to get there is going to be the kind of burden.
00:34:14I'm not sure our first division team could live through.
00:34:17Well, look, Joel.
00:34:18So we talked a lot about the internal.
00:34:20Let's remember in 2016, the Yankees missed the playoffs.
00:34:23Right.
00:34:23And that's why judge was given the opportunity to come up.
00:34:26Right.
00:34:27The yet.
00:34:28So, so judge got an apprenticeship that I don't think Spencer Jones could get, you know,
00:34:32the Yankees released a rod.
00:34:34They kind of wanted to change the subject.
00:34:37They brought up Tyler Austin and judge on the same day in early August, and then just
00:34:42let them play in a, in their, like their most lost season in what, 20, over 30 years.
00:34:51They still kind of want, you know, got right to the periphery of the playoffs and didn't
00:34:55get in that year.
00:34:56Uh, cause Gary Sanchez, I think that was the year he went crazy right at the end of
00:35:00the year and hit like 20 homers and 50 games.
00:35:02But, uh, or was that the Alfonso story?
00:35:05Anyway, anyway, like they got close a little bit.
00:35:08Um, uh, but, but judge got what I don't think Spencer Jones will get.
00:35:14Yeah.
00:35:15Uh, I just, um, not here, not here.
00:35:17I think there's something about Jones that intrigues me besides the, the loud hits every
00:35:22time is that if it's down in the zone, he's murdering the pitch, but if it's high, if
00:35:27it's high and tight and it's fast, he's getting short, he's struggling to get to that, that
00:35:30those pitches.
00:35:31I think he's faced some of the hardest pitching, like you said, to start his career, Gavin Williams,
00:35:36Mizorowski.
00:35:37There's others that he's faced like clay homes.
00:35:38Like he's had a tough time to Kyle Hamilton.
00:35:41Yeah.
00:35:41Like it's not been an easy, not Harrison, Harrison, sorry.
00:35:45It's not, it's been a hard, hard start for Jones to face a lot of the best pitching, but
00:35:49that's major league baseball.
00:35:50That's what you're gonna have to go up against every day, pretty much.
00:35:52So, uh, but what's fascinating to me, Joel is the internal part of this all.
00:35:56I think something I still want to ask you as this overarching theme of, all right, the
00:36:01Yankees are going to try and solve this internally.
00:36:03Cause the, the reinforcements are on their way, hopefully in Dominguez and Stanton, can they
00:36:10get by with the pitching that they have, the starting pitching that's so damn good and
00:36:15the bullpen that's been better of late, but still has its issues.
00:36:18Do the Yankees have enough offensively to get by the next month and a half, maybe two
00:36:24months without judge in the lineup every day?
00:36:27Yeah, I, I, I, I think so.
00:36:30But like, you know, also that's about like, who's jazz Chisholm, right?
00:36:35You know, like, like on paper, jazz Chisholm is a 30, 30 guy, uh, who should be close to
00:36:42an 800 OPS.
00:36:43Um, and I, uh, forgive the self-referential again.
00:36:48I, in the off season, once he started talking about money and 50, 50 seasons, I was like,
00:36:54he's going to talk himself out of 50, 50 and be 200, 200.
00:36:56He's going to hit 200 and strike out 200 times because I think he, I think he very much locks
00:37:03into the meat of it.
00:37:05Um, and, uh, I'm not sure that that works.
00:37:09Um, and, but, but talent wise, could he go off for a month and help them?
00:37:17Sure.
00:37:18Uh, do I think there's more balls that go over the fence from Trent Grisham?
00:37:22Um, I do, uh, do I think that there's still 20 homers and Ryan McMahon, like, like, I think
00:37:28there's ways to do, you're not, you're replacing judge with a village, uh, and part of that village
00:37:33is Stanton and Dominguez coming back and providing something.
00:37:37I would still say that even minus judge that lineup on a regular basis is better than most.
00:37:44Uh, it's obviously a different level with judge who's arguably the best hitter in the
00:37:48world, but, uh, it should be enough, especially to your point, they put a starting pitcher on
00:37:53the mound every day who pretty much gives them a chance to log a game late into it.
00:37:58And I, their bullpen is a place to address, but for the last two or three weeks, the bullpen
00:38:04has been fine.
00:38:05Like it's mainly like Cruz has been really, really good.
00:38:11Bednar got his app back.
00:38:12Bednar, yeah, he looks good.
00:38:13You know, uh, between Hedrick and, and, um, and Hill, you know, they have two lefties who
00:38:20are pretty good.
00:38:22Uh, you know, Daval has given them a little something, you know, it's, it's imperfect.
00:38:29It's going to have to be augmented internally and externally.
00:38:34But again, subject, subject you and I talk a lot about on this show, go to a site and look
00:38:39at the Yankee relief pitching compared to 30 teams, not just what you want it to be, because
00:38:44clearly what you want it to be, if you're a Yankee fan or the Yankees is better.
00:38:49This is not a championship bullpen right now.
00:38:52They need to get it to a championship bullpen.
00:38:55They need for Lagrange to be good and to trade for Josh Hader or someone like, like, and then
00:39:00be like, okay, game on.
00:39:02Let's play.
00:39:03We can beat anybody, that kind of thing.
00:39:05Uh, but on June 9th compared to 30 teams, they're about like say 10th best bullpen in
00:39:14baseball, which is you want better, but, but they've actually worked out a group of guys
00:39:22who generally get them through the late innings.
00:39:25Uh, and you see the pieces that are going to be replaced when, and if they can be replaced.
00:39:31And I still think it's, it's amazing how much length they're getting out of this rotation
00:39:36every day.
00:39:37It's put less pressure on the bullpen to get them through these games.
00:39:41Uh, but last night was a big one.
00:39:42I thought, you know, the fact that Cruz came in, Bednar gave you more than an inning.
00:39:46I mean, it was, it was a good win last night against the guardians team that you're most
00:39:50likely going to be going into the, into the playoff race against and you're gonna have
00:39:52to face because this American league, Joel, I cannot emphasize this enough.
00:39:55It's so bad.
00:39:57It's so bad right now.
00:39:58Like, yeah, let's, let's get to that one time, but I, I said this to somebody the other
00:40:03day.
00:40:04I said, uh, uh, the, the way you get your bullpen to be a pitch better is ask it to
00:40:10pitch
00:40:10less this way.
00:40:12You could use, uh, if you over guys are relievers, cause they generally have less durability or
00:40:18less stuff or less control or some combination of all three of those things.
00:40:22That's how you end up in the bullpen.
00:40:24The money is, is a starting pitcher.
00:40:26If you could be a starting pitcher, you'd be a starting pitcher.
00:40:28You're in the bullpen specifically because of one of those areas or multiple of those
00:40:35areas you're failing in.
00:40:36So you would love, and, and, and if you try to ask three, four, five of those guys to succeed
00:40:41a night, somebody is going to falter because they just have those failings.
00:40:46It's just math at some point.
00:40:47So if you've noticed last year, the Dodgers really needed to be in the bullpen this year,
00:40:53they ask a lot less of their bullpen.
00:40:55Suddenly their bullpen is good again.
00:40:56Yeah.
00:40:57Is their bullpen really good or are they just being used less, being used in spots against
00:41:02the kind of hitters, a smart group, uh, you know, Dave Roberts in their group, no, we'll
00:41:08see they'll succeed.
00:41:09Like, you know, there's clearly lanes that the Yankees, you know, it's interesting.
00:41:14You usually don't follow left with left and the Yankees follow Hedrick with Hill a lot
00:41:19if you've noticed.
00:41:21And that's because there's lanes where they're like, this is the hard throwing lefty.
00:41:25This is the soft throwing lefty, but you could get to that.
00:41:28If you're getting six innings from your start where it's like, okay, now I know the next nine
00:41:33hitters and, you know, deal, deal with it.
00:41:38Like, like, like kind of situation.
00:41:39So I, I just don't, don't hold me to this Ryan, because I haven't looked at it in a
00:41:44few days, but I think I looked a few days ago and it was like the bullpen through three
00:41:48of the least innings, like the top five or something were teams in playoff position.
00:41:53I don't, I don't just, yeah, it, you know, like, like, like if you ask less, you'll usually
00:41:59get more out of those groups and, and, and the good news for the Yankee starters is if
00:42:05and when Freed returns, they get to, if they want, turn one of those guys into a reliever.
00:42:13Yep.
00:42:13And that would turn into a real luxury for this Yankees team.
00:42:15And I think they're going to slow play a Freed.
00:42:18Yeah.
00:42:18I mean, he's, I think that their dream is Freed, Rodan, Schlittler and Cole going full
00:42:24bore on October 1st.
00:42:27That's because if you think, and, and by the way, I think they'll slow play judge.
00:42:31I think that's, they're doing this right because, because of the way the American league is,
00:42:35is shaping up to be right now.
00:42:36That's where I was going to get is, is I could actually look at it real quick.
00:42:41It was true yesterday, two, three, four.
00:42:43Yep.
00:42:43We got five teams in a league that we've played a little over 40% of the season.
00:42:49There's five teams, five in the American league with winning records.
00:42:53There's one, two, three, four, five teams with plus run differentials in the whole league.
00:43:01And by the way, one of those is a staggering, what was it?
00:43:05Plus eight.
00:43:08And it's the White Sox.
00:43:10And I think we're all pretty sure they're probably not going to finish over 500, though.
00:43:13They've been a terrific story so far this season.
00:43:16Now, some of these teams, is it going to be Texas?
00:43:19Will Detroit make a run?
00:43:21And I, so I'll tell you one I think is important.
00:43:23I think the Yankees need to play well this weekend in Rogers Center.
00:43:27Yes.
00:43:27Beat up Toronto.
00:43:29Right.
00:43:30And Toronto's right in a position right now where they're just about to get as healthy as they've been all
00:43:36year.
00:43:36Now, this is always tricky is number one, guys get healthy.
00:43:40Other guys get hurt or guys get healthy.
00:43:43And you thought they were healthy and they break down again.
00:43:45And, or you think, oh, the cavalry is coming and it doesn't help as much.
00:43:49But, over the next few days, they're expecting their catcher, Alejandro Kirk, who's a very important player for them.
00:43:57Dylan Cease, who had pitched like their ace this year, along with Kevin Gosman and Treyasavich.
00:44:03And Max Scherzer, who knows what he is anymore.
00:44:05They expect all three of those guys back.
00:44:08Next week, they expect Addison Barger back, who hadn't played well this year, but was a key guy to an
00:44:13American League champion last year and certainly did some damage against the Yankees last year.
00:44:19And I think by the end of that week, they expect Shane Bieber, who was the losing pitcher in Game
00:44:247, but helped the Blue Jays late last season.
00:44:27So, we're talking about three starting pitchers, the catcher, and a big left-handed bat who can play right field
00:44:34derby, so a couple of different places back.
00:44:37That's 20% of your team.
00:44:39And so, I think if I were looking at the ALEs, I know that the Yankees are tied with the
00:44:43Rays.
00:44:44And the Rays are a great story.
00:44:46And maybe the Rays will figure out how to hold this all year.
00:44:48I still think the team that presses the Yankees the most is the Blue Jays.
00:44:52I think the Blue Jays, 1-26, have the next most talent in the division.
00:44:56They were in the Yankees' head last year.
00:44:59The Yankees need to make sure, in their first visit to Rogers Center, the Yankees were 1-8 there last
00:45:04year, between the regular season and the postseason.
00:45:07It was a house of horrors for them.
00:45:08And so, this weekend, no Aaron Judge, no Max Fritt, whatever.
00:45:11The Blue Jays have played without a lot of players this year.
00:45:15That's part of the season.
00:45:17They've got to go up there and show they can win in that ballpark.
00:45:21And that they're not just going to let the Blue Jays start the, hey, they're 8 games back.
00:45:26Hey, they're 6 games back.
00:45:27Hey, they're 4 games back.
00:45:29Now they're, kind of thing.
00:45:31Yankees need to, like, do some stomping this week.
00:45:34They could jumpstart the Blue, yeah.
00:45:35I mean, the Blue Jays could jumpstart their season right now with a series win over the Yankees.
00:45:39Excuse me.
00:45:40I will say this, Joel.
00:45:41So, the problems will compound themselves without judging this lineup.
00:45:47You're going to focus now more on the black hole that is at shortstop, at catcher, and at third base.
00:45:53Because those three guys right now, in those three positions, I should say, are not producing at all for your
00:45:58lineup.
00:45:59And I am interested, let's start with the catcher thing.
00:46:02I'm interested to hear your thoughts about it.
00:46:04Ascara gets sent down.
00:46:06Then, all of a sudden, Wells goes on the I.O. with headaches.
00:46:09Ascara comes back up, along with Diaz.
00:46:13So, like, what is your sense on this situation?
00:46:20Because Wells was going through it.
00:46:22Like, this guy had a really, really rough start to this season.
00:46:27And it had not gotten any better.
00:46:29He says he's been dealing with the headaches over the last couple weeks slash months.
00:46:32And he didn't talk about it.
00:46:34This is also a repeated thing with the Yankees and head injuries.
00:46:37Where, if you go back to Anthony Rizzo, when that concussion happened, getting run back into first base.
00:46:43I believe it was Tatis.
00:46:44He didn't talk about his head, how he was feeling.
00:46:47So, I don't know.
00:46:49Like, I'm interested to hear this catcher spot and how the Yankees were handling it.
00:46:54Yeah, I think a lot of athletes, you know, Aaron Judge didn't tell the Yankees for weeks about how much
00:46:59pain he was in, either.
00:47:00Like, you know, if the player doesn't tell you, it's very hard to say, we're putting you on the I
00:47:05.O. with what we think you have.
00:47:07You know, like, there's got to be a cooperative thing there.
00:47:10And, like, look, we usually admire players for trying to play through things.
00:47:14And I think, clearly, Wells was playing through it.
00:47:17So, let me talk about something writ large, which I'm concerned about.
00:47:21I think the velocity that catchers are dealing with now, which is a thing.
00:47:28And then the violence of a foul ball in that short a period with it, how they're getting hit in
00:47:35the mask.
00:47:37If you notice, Wells talked about going back to a different kind of mask.
00:47:41I wonder if mask technology needs to be done.
00:47:45A catching instructor who I talked to recently, just out of no place, it was really interesting, said to me,
00:47:52how many catchers in the major leagues do you think are playing with some form of a concussion?
00:47:58And I said, what?
00:47:59And he said, yeah, like, I just think that they're all foggy all the time.
00:48:04Like, they're getting hit so much.
00:48:06You know, and we just take it as part of the game.
00:48:08Oh, he took a foul ball.
00:48:09Like, every time the umpire gets hit in the mask, there's a stoppage of the game.
00:48:13And sometimes those guys get replaced.
00:48:15When the catcher gets hit at a slightly shorter distance, even, than the umpire, we're like, okay, that was strike
00:48:23two.
00:48:24And so I'm, I just think the catching position, if you have a two-way catcher right now, it's like
00:48:32a miracle.
00:48:33Like, the advantages of having William Contreras kind of guy.
00:48:40Like, he does it on both sides of the ball.
00:48:43You know, those, the few and the proud who can do that on both sides of the ball, they're remarkable.
00:48:49Because I just think, mentally, the game planning, which takes hours and hours every day.
00:48:55So there's a mental grind.
00:48:56There's a physical grind with the movement and the velocity.
00:49:00There's multiple pitches a day.
00:49:02It's not like, oh, my start is out there for nine innings.
00:49:04I can just get used to this.
00:49:05Because I think it's relentless.
00:49:09I'm not trying to make excuses for Austin Wells.
00:49:12But I think, I think I told this story last week, right?
00:49:17I talked to Albert Bell.
00:49:19Albert Pujols.
00:49:20Yep.
00:49:21Who coached him at Team DR, yeah.
00:49:24And he was like, and this is Albert Bell, Albert Pujols talking about what a good hitter he thought Wells
00:49:30was.
00:49:32And, like, Pujols has no reason to say that to me.
00:49:34Like, we were talking, like, we know each other.
00:49:36Like, look at it this way.
00:49:38If he had said, oh, no, I think he's terrible.
00:49:40Like, I think he knows I wouldn't be talking about it on the air here.
00:49:44Right?
00:49:44Like, he trusted me with something, and it was good.
00:49:49And I think the Yankees drafted Wells to be a hitter.
00:49:53And I think in the mental, physical wear of being a catcher, the hitting went away.
00:50:00Uh, I'm not sure it's ever coming back.
00:50:03I know they cleared him of a concussion.
00:50:05But I just think once you start having head injuries, you start having head injuries.
00:50:09Yeah.
00:50:09It's, I, I would worry for Austin Wells.
00:50:13The person at the length of the career at this point, as much as anything else, because I just think
00:50:20catchers get beat up.
00:50:21And I think once you start taking on head injuries, like it, you know, Joe Maurer had to stop catching.
00:50:26You know, he couldn't, you know, he took, took too many concussions and got out from behind the plate.
00:50:31So I think there's that.
00:50:32Um, if you notice Cleveland decided to double down, they traded for Patrick Bailey.
00:50:39They already had Austin hedges who's hit this year, but is like one of the worst hitters in major league
00:50:44history for guys who play regularly, but is a great leader catcher.
00:50:48And Cleveland just doubled down on, let's just catch.
00:50:52And it's up to the other eight guys to hit.
00:50:54And I think that's where the Yankees are right now, which is.
00:50:58Call a good game, try to control a running game, uh, frame well, which is a big Yankee deal.
00:51:06The Yankees usually excel at it.
00:51:07And I think they're one of the better teams again this year by the metrics.
00:51:10Uh, and it's up to the other eight guys.
00:51:13And that then puts pressure on third base and shortstop.
00:51:15Right.
00:51:16To be better.
00:51:17Because I think you just have to say the catcher's job is, is like a fullback.
00:51:24I'm not expecting him to run the ball for a thousand yards.
00:51:26It's not a bad comp.
00:51:28Yeah.
00:51:28That's not a bad comp.
00:51:30Lock and catch a pass every once in a while.
00:51:32Maybe we'll give it to him on short yardage, but like he's doing something else.
00:51:36And it's up to the other skill guys on offense to produce offense.
00:51:40Uh, I think that's where the Yankees are right now.
00:51:43They need the other guys to do it.
00:51:45And I think they're look, I, I, if I were trying to be encouraged about Ryan McMahon, it was another
00:51:51opposite field Homer.
00:51:52Yeah.
00:51:53It's all he hits is opposite.
00:51:54So he clearly has changed his setup as physically and his mindset because he was so pull, pull, pull.
00:52:03Is there a 20% chance that you're going to get a better offensive player as the season goes along
00:52:09and he gets more and more comfortable and confident with whatever he's doing here?
00:52:13I still feel like there's a big difference if he could get to say 20 homers and his OPS begins
00:52:21with a high six instead of a high five.
00:52:24Like if it's six 60 and he's a 90 OPS plus guy as opposed to a 75 or 70, like,
00:52:32like I don't expect him to be above average there, but some homers and some competence on offense would go
00:52:40a long way.
00:52:41Well, look, Joel, after a first rough month for McMahon in May, it wasn't terrible to 44 batting average, a
00:52:48seven, a seven, 11, 711 OPS for homers, 12 ribbies.
00:52:53And, and in June so far, he's banged.
00:52:55He's batting two 73.
00:52:57It's been better compared to that first really rough month.
00:53:00I actually think his defense has been a little cleaner.
00:53:02So that platoon of McMahon and Rosario feels like you can get a buy with that right now at third,
00:53:09if this is who McMahon is, right?
00:53:12If that's who he is.
00:53:13But I think the problem is really like you, you were talking about before.
00:53:17I think it's the shortstop problem right now, because when Caballero went down with the injury, right?
00:53:22Volpe gets the call up.
00:53:23He has that one great week that we, everyone gets fool's gold for.
00:53:27And this is really where I want to essentially go for Joel's notebook, because again, I thought this was such
00:53:32a vital part of the conversation.
00:53:33You have a boon yesterday.
00:53:35You asked him, what, what do you see behind the plate off the field compared to what every Yankees fan
00:53:41that this is the pariah for?
00:53:43This is what everyone's eye is on Anthony Volpe.
00:53:46And he said, look, I still think he gives us great or good at bats.
00:53:50And I think I would argue with him.
00:53:52No, he doesn't.
00:53:53They rolled this Chapman bat the other night, three straight fastballs right down the middle.
00:53:57Mind you, not 100 miles per hour Chapman, 96, 95 mile per hour Chapman right down the middle.
00:54:02He just sits and stares at him.
00:54:04I don't see good at bats from Anthony Volpe.
00:54:06I don't see a good approach.
00:54:08And then defensively, you can't throw the runner out at home after you get a relay throw right off the
00:54:14cuff of the infield and the outfield.
00:54:16He's out for any other shortstop making that throw, Joel.
00:54:19So I think Anthony Volpe is really not a good shortstop for them.
00:54:23And I wonder if they're doing more harm than good by not playing Caballero every day at shortstop and putting
00:54:28him out of position in right field.
00:54:30Because, look, we're dealing with injuries, guys.
00:54:32We're all going through it.
00:54:33But I just feel like they're going back into their old ways, Joel, of forcing guys out of position and
00:54:39not playing the best shortstop at short every day with Caballero.
00:54:44Yeah, well, there's a lot there.
00:54:46So I do find it interesting.
00:54:48By the way, I've â again, just because this isn't the only show we've ever done, it's a reminder that
00:54:57I have said I am someone who has lost a lot of faith in Anthony Volpe over the last three
00:55:04years.
00:55:04From someone I thought, I think Anthony Volpe is going to end up being a good second baseman for a
00:55:09team that's not the New York Yankees.
00:55:11I think that's ultimately the destiny for the player, that he's a much better player than he shows here, but
00:55:20he's not playing the right position.
00:55:22And whether it's about playing for the team he grew up rooting for, something has got him stuck in the
00:55:28mud of never being able to do something constantly.
00:55:31On the other hand, his mistakes in the field become referendums every time.
00:55:39Caballero screws up in the field all the time.
00:55:41He screwed up yesterday in the field.
00:55:43Why are his errors at shortstop so much more forgivable to Yankee fans than Volpe?
00:55:49Because he gives you a little bit more offensively than Volpe does.
00:55:52But we were â again, we're talking defensively here.
00:55:56Like â and I'm not sure if you just play â watching Caballero this year, I'm more convinced also that
00:56:05he is Jose Alvarado and that you're much better off having him in spurts and moving him around.
00:56:14I don't â I'm not sure he's a starting shortstop.
00:56:17Joel, he was one of the best defensive shortstops, according to Alts Above Average, for the first two months of
00:56:22the season.
00:56:22I get it, but you â you know, Alts Above â like, I looked yesterday, DRS has Gleyber Torres as
00:56:28the fourth best second baseman in the sport.
00:56:31Gleyber's missed a ton of time, though.
00:56:32Like, you can't look at â I mean, you have to give it some context, right?
00:56:36Pete Alonzo's the fourth best first baseman.
00:56:38He's played every inning of every game.
00:56:40He's played better this year defensively.
00:56:41Wouldn't you agree?
00:56:42Better?
00:56:42Do you think he's the fourth best?
00:56:43I don't know about fourth best, but he's played better than what he has in the last recent years, Pete
00:56:46Alonzo.
00:56:47But my point is, the defensive metrics still leave something to be desired.
00:56:51We're watching Caballero, and the problem with Caballero, to me, is it's like his base running.
00:56:57He giveth and taketh away.
00:56:59He does it on defense also.
00:57:01There's just â there's a lot of stuff that's spectacular.
00:57:05I would play him instead of Volpe.
00:57:09They â I don't think they'll get there this year.
00:57:12Like, but I'll tell you that it's not out of the question that George Lombard is the shortstop on August
00:57:181st.
00:57:19Now, again, the problem with that is I talked to three scouts who watch Lombard all the time, have the
00:57:28Yankee system.
00:57:29And I asked them in the last week, would you â do you think he could come up and help
00:57:34the team?
00:57:34And two out of the three, veteran guys, all three guys, said, just leave him down there and let him
00:57:39have the season.
00:57:40He said, he's very young.
00:57:42Let him conquer the season.
00:57:44They said every time he's done a level, he's struggled at the beginning and then caught up.
00:57:49Let him finish out strong.
00:57:51He's incredibly young for AAA.
00:57:54The third guy said, I would make him the shortstop.
00:57:58So, like, again, this is, like, obviously not Yankee people, outside people talking about this.
00:58:05And so I think that they're going to have a moment, like, Lombard over, say, the last three or four
00:58:10weeks has really seemed to catch on at AAA.
00:58:13The bat lag â the Yankees, I think, can know this.
00:58:18And I think the Yankees would be the first to say, defense and base running, they have no doubt about
00:58:24George Lombard.
00:58:25They wonder if he'll be competitive right now as a hitter or that he needs that season.
00:58:32He's only 20-21.
00:58:33He needs more AAA seasoning to do it.
00:58:38But the more and more I watch Volpe and Caballero try to do this, I mentioned Jeremy Pena before.
00:58:47I've mentioned Lombard here.
00:58:49I'm not sure you're going to win a championship with either Caballero or Volpe playing shortstop.
00:58:55There's just too much inconsistency in every way at too important of a position.
00:59:01To me, that guy needs to be rock solid at something.
00:59:07And I do not think that â like, look, how about this?
00:59:12There was the year where Volpe won the gold glove.
00:59:15The defensive metrics liked Volpe the first two years he was a major leaguer.
00:59:18I never thought he was as good a shortstop as the metrics.
00:59:22I thought the arm was always short.
00:59:26You know, that lots of plays went unmade with him.
00:59:30I'm not â you know, the blessing of my thing is I watch the Mets and Yankees play every day.
00:59:36And I'd be like, yeah, these defensive metrics say Volpe's better than Lindor.
00:59:41I'm like, it's not close.
00:59:43It's not â I mean, this is, again, the Bellinger-Tucker thing.
00:59:46Like, watch them play baseball.
00:59:48Stop telling me about their war.
00:59:50Like, at some point, you've got to watch guys play and see how they handle game situations.
00:59:57And I'm not sure the Yankees have a championship shortstop on their major league roster right now.
01:00:02Now, I would send Volpe back to the minors, and I would play Caballero and Schumann, and that would be
01:00:10the shortstops for now.
01:00:12I don't think it's good enough.
01:00:14I don't.
01:00:15But I think the Volpe thing â because I see it in you, and I see it in other friends
01:00:21of mine who are Yankee fans, and I don't think you should give in to the mob.
01:00:27But the Yankees haven't given in to the mob for three-plus years, and to me, this is getting worse,
01:00:31not better.
01:00:32And at some point, the mob is impacting the play.
01:00:39Whether Volpe wants this so bad, because this is his team, he's from New Jersey, he grew up loving Jeter,
01:00:46he wanted to be a Yankee, he was a first-round draft choice, et cetera.
01:00:50He wanted this so bad, I still think he'll end up a good second baseman on another team, because I
01:00:57think he has to get off of that position and out of this organization.
01:01:02And by the way, he ends up being a good trade ship in five weeks.
01:01:06Sure, but I guess my question is, you see it, I see it, a lot of other people see it,
01:01:11scouts see it, I feel like, too.
01:01:13Why not just move him to second base right now?
01:01:15Send him down to AAA and say, hey, buddy, go work on second base, because you're not going to make
01:01:19it here at shortstop.
01:01:20But then your question becomes, are you not going to play Jazz?
01:01:24Well, again, this is part of the question with Jazz, right?
01:01:27Like, are you going to live and die with him as well?
01:01:30I would get rid of Jazz, you know how I feel.
01:01:33He's not having a good year, he's hitting home runs when you're up 3-1 to make it 6-1.
01:01:40Again, if your goal is to get to the finish line, and it's this way for me, it's about six
01:01:46blocks that way,
01:01:47it's the Canyon of Heroes from where I'm sitting right now.
01:01:50If you want to get there, I know the type of player who gets you there.
01:01:54I've seen teams get to there five times.
01:01:58The Yankees got there five times in my years covering baseball.
01:02:02I know what those teams look like and what the attitudes were of those teams.
01:02:10And, yeah, I would, I mean, but, you know, it's not easy because I think that the industry wouldn't give
01:02:20the Yankees much back for Jazz.
01:02:21So are you just ready to, like, move on for very little?
01:02:25Are you ready to move on from a guy who can change a game with his legs and his feet,
01:02:29but also can kill you?
01:02:32Friday night against the Red Sox.
01:02:34The broadcasters are literally thanking him for that booting on second base.
01:02:37It's just like sometimes you're like, wow, he's spectacular defensively.
01:02:41Like you said, same thing with Gabby.
01:02:42Sometimes it's spectacular defensively.
01:02:44Sometimes you're like, what the hell are you doing?
01:02:47Remember what I said at the top of the show, a lot of baseball is doing the routine over and
01:02:53over again with a relentless hunger, passion, and professionalism and connecting all those dots for months and months because that's
01:03:03baseball.
01:03:04Like, most of the stuff is if you just take care of the, it's the Dodgers, if you watch them,
01:03:11are really excellent at the routine.
01:03:12Like, we'll talk about $400 million rosters and having Otani and what that means.
01:03:20Sure, they have more talent than anyone else.
01:03:23But watch them play baseball.
01:03:25They're pretty good at it.
01:03:26They're pretty good at it.
01:03:28Like, their best players, guys like Betts and Freeman, they're really good at baseball.
01:03:33They're really, really good at baseball.
01:03:36And that infects a whole team also.
01:03:40And I don't know.
01:03:41I think it's going to be hard to get to where you want if you have guys who do the
01:03:46spectacular but not the routine.
01:03:48And look, the ultimate mask for the Yankees was Judge over these last, you know, five, seven, eight years because
01:03:55of what he does offensively for you and defensively because Judge is a great defensive player as well.
01:03:59Can I add one other thing?
01:04:01Go ahead.
01:04:03Judge, to me, obviously was dealing with this injury for a while and it was impacting him.
01:04:08And yet, as bad as he was, the other team still has to account for him.
01:04:12Good point, Joel.
01:04:13You're not.
01:04:13Yeah.
01:04:14So you know where he is in the lineup.
01:04:17Other guys are getting pitches that they won't get.
01:04:20It's like, hey, we got to get the next three guys out.
01:04:23Judge is the fourth batter this inning.
01:04:25I don't care if he's hitting 163 for a month.
01:04:27And by the way, the Yankees get a little of that with Stanton when he comes back.
01:04:32You talk to opposing pitching coaches.
01:04:34Is there ways to get Stanton out?
01:04:35Are there big holes?
01:04:36Yeah.
01:04:37But they say you got to get to those holes because you don't get to the holes.
01:04:41It goes 450.
01:04:42So, like, there's those two guys create a menace and a physical and mental wear and tear on the other
01:04:50team of where are they?
01:04:52Where are they in the lineup?
01:04:54They can change the game.
01:04:54That's a three-run homer waiting to happen.
01:04:56Let's stay away from them.
01:04:57And I think that Judge gives the Yankees something when he's in the lineup, just his presence that changes.
01:05:06It's like one of the things is, you know, I was talking about in the first two games of, like,
01:05:12the Knicks series, Brunson, and he did it again last night, is he's not shooting well.
01:05:18But there's a gravity to him when he has the ball, what happens to the defense that opens up things
01:05:24for other guys even when he's playing.
01:05:26But, you know, the classic guy of that is Steph Curry, which is, like, Steph Curry could go two for
01:05:3118 and impact the game because he went two for 18 because you had to leave everyone else open.
01:05:38And, obviously, that's a sport where the ball gets passed around as opposed to baseball.
01:05:42But Judge in the lineup is the other team is like, crap, he's up fourth this inning.
01:05:50And what does that mean for throwing the ball over the plate to the first three guys where maybe they
01:05:54could do some damage?
01:05:55And look, whether right or wrong, it is what this Yankees team is right now.
01:05:59Without Judge, how do the other players perform over the next month to two months?
01:06:04Because, like you said, they're most likely.
01:06:07You want to know something?
01:06:09You know how Ben Rice wins the MVP?
01:06:11Yeah.
01:06:11He plays great for the next weeks.
01:06:12And he's continued to play great, Joel.
01:06:14Like, he's still steady every day, man.
01:06:17But, like, if you look and you say, wow, Judge missed, let's make it up, 50 games, the Yankees went
01:06:2430 and 20, and Ben Rice hit 12 homers with 1,000 OPS, we're going to look at that and
01:06:32go, hey, that's the middle name of most valuable player.
01:06:36That was pretty valuable, and it's going to help a case because what's going to make the MVP fascinating in
01:06:43the American League this year is if all the teams suck, and you usually look for the elite players on
01:06:50the good teams, and there's so few good teams.
01:06:53And, like, for example, I do think Seattle's good, but Kyle Raleigh hasn't played well and hasn't played, for example.
01:06:59Julio Rodriguez has played.
01:07:00Julio Rodriguez has got off to, like, the bad start, and now he's playing very good again.
01:07:04So maybe, you know, like, if they just sprint away from the division.
01:07:08But, like, right now, probably it's Jordan Alvarez, but do you want to do, like, a last-place team for
01:07:14the MVP?
01:07:15So it's, like, Ben Rice could do some stuff for his MVP candidacy if it turns out that, like, he's
01:07:25a version of Judge for about 50 games.
01:07:29Yep, but it's going toâ
01:07:31Or just keep doing what he's doing.
01:07:32Keep doing what he's doing.
01:07:33It's been so good.
01:07:34And I would takeâfirst off, I would take 500 baseball over the next 50 games without Judge.
01:07:37I think you are winning if you get to 500 without Judge over the next 50 games or so.
01:07:43So, like, itâ
01:07:45They're good enough to do better than that, and the league is bad enough for them to do better than
01:07:49that.
01:07:49Right.
01:07:49Their starting pitching is good enough.
01:07:51And if they stay relatively healthy from here forward and get Dominguez and Stanton back, it's a good lineup.
01:07:56Like, Iâlook, the Mets lost a lot of players, notably Lindor.
01:08:02Like, you've got to figure out a way to keep winning.
01:08:04The Mets didn't.
01:08:05They had the 12-game losing streak, and that 12-game losing streak is probably going to be the lead
01:08:09balloon that isâ
01:08:12You know, there was something that was repeated over and over to me when I talked to executives from other
01:08:17teams.
01:08:17I say, what do you think about the Mets?
01:08:19And they go, they're a good team with a very good farm system that had a 12-game losing streak.
01:08:24And they're like, can the good team with a good farm system overcome the 12-game losing streak?
01:08:30They all say it's very difficult.
01:08:31And so, like, what the Yankees need to do is avoid, like, a seven-game losingâlike, whatever it is.
01:08:38Like, to your point, winning three and losing three, winning four and losing three, and treading water in this league
01:08:46right now will really help them until Freed and Judge get back.
01:08:49But you've got to be careful, because by the time Freed and Judge get back, you mightâCole might have a
01:08:54setback or whatever.
01:08:55So, I think they're good enough to play winning baseball at a pretty good clip without Judge.
01:09:03And then that gives them even more comfort in slow-playing Judge and Freed, who are so important to if
01:09:12they're going to get to the Canyon of Heroes.
01:09:13So, I can't believe we're doing this again here in June, Joel.
01:09:16I just hope they avoid the June swoon, as always.
01:09:19But thank you, as always, Joel, for hopping on here, giving us all your Yankees insight.
01:09:22This was a fun episode for me, man.
01:09:25I'm looking forward to seeing your baseball coverage throughout, and we're looking forward to catching up to you next time.
01:09:29Thanks, Joel.
01:09:30Thanks, Ryan. Peace. Thanks, everyone, for watching.
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