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00:00Greg Cosell, NFL Films. We got a lot to talk about. Hey, Greg, how you doing?
00:05I'm just trying to figure out if I can play wide receiver for the Niners tomorrow night, you know?
00:09Well, can you?
00:11Well, you know, maybe a few years ago, but unfortunately not today.
00:14I've heard you can shoot. I don't know if you can catch, though.
00:20Well, you know, there was a time, but that was many, many years ago.
00:24That was like circa early to mid-70s.
00:28A brutal set of injuries, which is what you're referring to, but let's look backward before we go forward.
00:36Greg, what did you see with Brock Purdy last week in what was clearly not a great performance for him?
00:45Yeah, you know, I'm going to be honest with you guys, and I know you've got to do this because you're on the radio every day,
00:50but the week-to-week stuff with Brock Purdy is a little, kind of gets a little silly to me
00:56because I almost feel like people talk about Brock Purdy as if, well, he's not really that good,
01:01so if he has a good game, yeah, let's wait and see then what he's going to do next week.
01:05I mean, Brock Purdy's their starting quarterback.
01:08He's a good player.
01:09I mean, I think if you pretty much talk to almost anybody, they'll tell you he's a good player.
01:14Was he as sharp as he normally is in this game, and he had just come back,
01:18and we have no idea how the injuries affected him.
01:21He wasn't as sharp as he normally is working between the numbers.
01:25There were throws he was a little wild high.
01:27I don't know if that's a function of his toe, his shoulder.
01:30I can't speak to that.
01:32But, you know, to me, the much larger issue for this team,
01:37and almost every quarterback in the league is like this, they need a running game.
01:43They cannot run the football.
01:45There's no sustainability.
01:47There's no consistency.
01:49They're one of the worst rushing teams in the league right now.
01:53McCaffrey is, I think, at the bottom of the league in terms of yards before first contact.
01:59He's not getting past the first level of the defense.
02:03His first contact, on average, is 1.47 yards.
02:07Think about that, okay?
02:09So their run game is what the main issue is right now,
02:13because Purdy, as I said, almost every quarterback is, with very few exceptions,
02:18is a ball distributor and an executor of a well-schemed offense.
02:23And if the offense can't run the football, it puts him in a really difficult spot.
02:28And I'm thinking about the ETN run where they executed it perfectly.
02:33They got to that second level, took the safeties out of it.
02:35Is that what the Niners are lacking right now, Greg,
02:37the ability to beat the defensive linemen and get to that second level
02:41and seal off a lane for McCaffrey?
02:44Yeah, they can't get him to the second level with any consistency at all.
02:48And even if he does manage to just get through that first level, it's not really clean.
02:52He's sort of, you know, fighting through to do that.
02:55So he's not able to re-accelerate, which is a strength of his game,
02:59the ability to re-accelerate in traffic, and he's not able to do that.
03:03But to me, that is the bigger issue.
03:05You know, you know how it is, guys, and you deal with this every day.
03:08Or on the radio every day, all people want to talk about, you know,
03:12I get into this conversation every week with Colin Coward.
03:15All people ever want to talk about is the quarterback.
03:18He's not the only player on the field.
03:20And, you know, I think we get caught up in analyzing the quarterback every single week
03:25as if he's the only player that matters.
03:28And in this particular case, Purdy is very good at what he is, okay?
03:34But if there's no fully formed, fully dimensional offense,
03:39he won't play as well as he can play.
03:42It's just a simple statement.
03:45And, you know, so everybody wants to say, well, that's Brock Purdy's fault.
03:48No, it's not Brock Purdy's fault.
03:50Greg Cosell, NFL Films, with us on the River Islands guest line,
03:53as he is every week at this time here on Willard & Dibs, 95-7,
03:57the game, one of our favorite segments of the entire week.
04:01So, Greg, I agree with you.
04:03Let's talk about that run game,
04:06what some of the characteristics are of their struggles that you see
04:10and what you think needs to sort of change there.
04:14What's the fix?
04:15Is it expanding the passing game to keep a defense honest?
04:19Does the O-line need to play better?
04:20I'm sure it's a lot of all those things.
04:22But what are you really focused on?
04:24I mean, as you guys know, when you're struggling in an area,
04:28it's never one thing.
04:29Like, you can't just say, oh, it's this guy.
04:32And I'm certainly not Chris Forster,
04:33who certainly knows a lot more about O-line play than I do.
04:36So I don't want to sit here and say, well, this guy's not playing well.
04:40Because I don't know that for a fact.
04:42And obviously, I'm not charting every single snap and all five offensive linemen.
04:46All I can tell you is, as a group, there's not really first-level gaps for McCaffrey to run through.
04:55They're not there.
04:56So they're trying to run multiple kinds of runs.
04:59They're running inside.
05:00They're trying to get him on the perimeter.
05:02I mean, they're clearly searching for the run game for ways to get McCaffrey out on,
05:07you know, get him some space.
05:09But right now, there's not a lot of space.
05:11And it's just a really hard deal.
05:13So they're caught up in a lot of longer yardage situations.
05:18They're not staying ahead of the chains.
05:20And that also makes it harder for Kyle Shanahan or any coordinator to call plays.
05:24Because contrary to what people might think, every situation has a core group of plays.
05:31In other words, when it's third and six, the quarterback knows he's going to get one of six concepts.
05:36He's not getting one of 40 concepts.
05:38He's getting one of six concepts.
05:40That's the way it is on almost every down and distance.
05:43So it just makes it harder to really call plays and feel comfortable about it if you're behind the chains.
05:50Especially now that you're going to a backup quarterback.
05:52And I just want to ask you, Greg, what you've seen on the film.
05:55Two games of Brock Purdy, he won't play.
05:58Two games of Mac Jones.
05:59What have you seen from Mac that the Niners can maybe lean on tomorrow night?
06:04Yeah, and I think in some ways he's similar.
06:06I mean, you know, obviously when they beat, I guess it was New Orleans,
06:10which has proven not to be a very good team up to this point.
06:13Still an NFL team, though.
06:14And you've got to beat who's on your schedule.
06:16You know, I thought he made some good throws in that game.
06:19We talked about the Jennings touchdown that I guess was the sort of seal of the victory,
06:24which was a really good play by Mac Jones in terms of reading the defense as a change from one look to another look.
06:31But Mac Jones in some ways is very similar stylistically to Brock Purdy.
06:35You know, they're going to need to be able to run, and if they can't, it just becomes harder.
06:43It's just, you know, I'll give you an example.
06:45I think everybody would say correctly that Josh Allen is one of the two or three best quarterbacks in football.
06:51Do you know that the Bills lead the NFL in rushing attempts and in rushing yards?
06:56Okay.
06:56Now, but people would obviously say, oh, man, Josh Allen.
06:59I've had this conversation with people who still think that, oh, if Josh Allen isn't Superman, they can't win.
07:04Well, meanwhile, they run the ball more and better than any team in the league.
07:09And last year, they had a run-pass ratio where they had more runs than passes.
07:13So, you know, it's just the reality of the NFL that the way teams are playing defense, too,
07:19is it's harder to create explosive plays in the pass game.
07:23We did a study for the matchup show where over the last two, three years, which maybe is a trend,
07:28two, three years one could say is a trend,
07:29and there's been fewer and fewer 20-plus-yard completions each and every year going back two, three years.
07:35The game is, you know, I don't want to say it's changing.
07:39Obviously, all offensive coaches want big plays and explosive plays,
07:43but the run game seems to be becoming increasingly more important in the way the game is being played
07:49because of the way defenses are structured.
07:51And you've got to be able to run the football to some degree.
07:54Greg, I'm glad that you're talking defense.
07:56I'd like to ask you about the 49er defense because, to my untrained eye,
08:01the biggest issue that scared me last week was the inability for the 49ers to generate any sort of a pass rush.
08:08No sacks, no QB hits, and this is obviously coinciding with Nick Bosa going out.
08:14So how would you describe the difference in the way that pass rush looked without him there?
08:19Well, the bottom line is they were unable to generate any consistent pressure on Lawrence,
08:24which is a shame because Lawrence really struggles when there are people around him.
08:29Because Lawrence is, you know, he's one of those mid-range quarterbacks who needs everything to work right.
08:34You get people around him.
08:35He struggles a lot.
08:37But, you know, they decided really not to rush the quarterback in terms of pressure.
08:43Like in the first half, Lawrence had 20 dropbacks.
08:46The 49ers only rushed five on two of those 20 dropbacks.
08:50So they decided to sort of stay with, you know, what Robert Sala's approach is.
08:55I know that's been a bone of contention through the last couple of years with another coordinator who didn't want to rush the quarterback and didn't want to blitz.
09:03But that's the way they chose to play.
09:05And they weren't able to generate any pressure whatsoever.
09:09Now, I've been told over the years by coaches, people a lot smarter than I am,
09:13that if you can't get there with four, you've got to add a fifth guy because at some point you've got to impact the quarterback.
09:19If you can't impact the quarterback, you could be great on the back end.
09:22And, obviously, they were missing Green last week, so they played Luter.
09:27You know, if you can't impact the quarterback in any way, most quarterbacks in this league will probably find a way to complete passes.
09:33He completed passes, but for only 174 yards.
09:36I know.
09:37You know, honestly, the defense really only gave up 19 points.
09:41It was a special teams gaffe that cost them.
09:43So, will the bend-but-don't-break approach work against Matthew Stafford tomorrow night,
09:48or do they have to try something else, in your opinion?
09:51Well, you've got to get people around Matthew Stafford.
09:53I mean, look, you guys, you know Matthew Stafford.
09:56Matthew Stafford may be the most respected quarterback in the league, believe it or not, by coaches,
10:01which is not the same as saying he's the best.
10:03You can get into that conversation.
10:04I don't get into best, you know, second best.
10:06I don't do that.
10:06But he is a big-time NFL quarterback, maybe on his way to the Hall of Fame.
10:11And when he has time to throw the football, he is phenomenal.
10:14And number one, he's an aggressive thrower, so he's going to make throws.
10:18Now, every once in a while, he'll throw a pick because, hey, he's an aggressive thrower.
10:22But he can make throws, and he makes big-time throws.
10:25So you better find a way to get people around him and make him feel like he has to speed up a little bit.
10:32Hey, sure, sacks are great, and you'd love to get them.
10:35But you're trying to impact the quarterback.
10:37You're trying to make him play faster mentally because then, in a sense,
10:44you want him to play faster mentally and physically, you know.
10:47It's because Stafford's seen everything, so you're not necessarily going to slow him down mentally,
10:50but you just want him to play faster physically.
10:53And if you can't do that, it's going to be tough.
10:55Greg Cosell, NFL Films, is with us.
10:58Yeah, Greg, like, I mean, this is kind of the way I look at tomorrow's game.
11:02I know everyone will focus on a backup QB and a bunch of backup wide receivers.
11:07But correct me if I'm wrong, kind of what you were just talking about.
11:11Both sides of the ball, the trenches play really favors the Rams right now based on the way that both teams have been playing.
11:21Would you say that's fair?
11:24Yeah.
11:24I mean, this is a game where the O-line for the Niners really has to play well because this group up front, as you guys know,
11:31they're in your division, so I'm not telling you guys anything you don't know.
11:34But just so fans understand, this group up front of Burson Young on the outside and Fisk and Turner inside,
11:40I mean, they are as good as there is in the league as a four-man D-line pass rush group.
11:45And they've played very well this year, and they do a lot of different things.
11:50Chris Shule has done a lot of things on third down in pure pass situations, the way he moves people around.
11:55I mean, last week he had an inside stunt where Vers was a stand-up player,
11:59and you might have seen the play where he just ran through the center.
12:03I mean, he is as strong as there is.
12:05I mean, he can do that to tackles.
12:06Now, he may not do it to Trent Williams, who's, you know, obviously a first ballot Hall of Famer,
12:10but the point is, is those guys are physical, they're fast, they're aggressive,
12:15they're a very high-percentage stunting team.
12:19And that becomes mental for the offensive line as much as it is physical.
12:23But they stunt maybe as much as any team in the league,
12:26and they're very multiple with their stunt concept.
12:29Just so people know what that means is, that means that there is a guy who penetrates,
12:34and then there's someone who goes and loops around him.
12:36So they do that with multiple guys and, you know, in different situations.
12:41And it's very, very hard to defend.
12:44And I'm thinking about last week against Jacksonville,
12:46where Kyle Shanahan dialed up a couple of pressure beaters,
12:50the shovel pass for the touchdown, the screen to Tonjes.
12:53When you look at those plays, are they the types of things that will apply
12:57against an aggressive defense like the Rams?
12:59I mean, I think that those kinds of things, you know, I mean, ultimately,
13:06the bottom line is this.
13:08I think the key in a game like this, to me,
13:11is what you do in normal down and distance situations.
13:14What I'm going to say is not profound here,
13:16because every coach thinks like this,
13:18but this is a team you really need to stay,
13:21particularly where the Niners are right now in this given season,
13:24at this moment, they really need to stay at a third and long.
13:27So to me, first down, second down are really important downs.
13:32If you can't stay somewhat ahead of the sticks,
13:35it's going to be hard to play against this defense.
13:37Now, the one thing I would say normally,
13:39but it may not be the case because of who the Niners are going to line up
13:42at receiver, is their corners are beatable players.
13:46But, you know, we'll see, you know,
13:49with who they're going to put out there.
13:50Because what do you have, Kendrick Bourne?
13:52I assume they'll play Valdez Scowling.
13:54Demarcus Robinson.
13:56Demarcus Robinson.
13:57You know, he's a guy, wherever he goes, Demarcus Robinson seems to do well.
14:01But, you know, now is, let me ask you a question.
14:04Is Jacob Cowling available or he's still injured?
14:06Not available yet.
14:08Yeah, he's not even on the injury report
14:11because I think he's still on IR, to be honest with you.
14:15So, I mean, you know, again,
14:16I think most teams would look at the Rams' defense
14:18and say the corners are beatable, exploitable players
14:21because it's Forbes, it's Williams, and it's Durant on the outside.
14:25I love their safeties.
14:26I mean, Kitchens and Curl, Curl's a really good player.
14:30Quentin Lake is one of the most overlooked, really good football players in this league
14:34for what he is asked to do in the context of that defense.
14:37And their dime player, Jalen McCullough, is a really good player, too.
14:41Greg, I'm certainly not saying the Niners can replicate it,
14:44but what did the Eagles do in the second half of their game against the Rams,
14:49against that defense that was working so well?
14:53They threw the ball outside the numbers to A.J. Brown,
14:56who was one-on-one with the corners.
14:58That's how they predominantly moved the ball in the pass game.
15:02Because in that game, and by the way, it's the only half this year
15:04where the Eagles' pass game has looked any good,
15:06but in the second half of that game, Hurts was 17 for 24 for 209 yards.
15:11And a lot of those, in third-down critical situations,
15:15he just went outside the numbers to A.J. Brown, who can beat any corner.
15:19So that's why I'm saying that they're beatable on the perimeter.
15:23The question is, you know, the Niners don't necessarily play that way, though.
15:26That's not sort of – I'm not saying they would never play that way,
15:30because you never know what a coach is going to do,
15:32particularly when he's lacking his normal players.
15:35But, you know, normally they're not a team that works outside the numbers.
15:39You know, their pass game tends to work more inside between the numbers.
15:44Those are tougher throws, and, you know, that's why, you know,
15:48Purdy is – you know, when he's on and the offense is humming,
15:51those are hard throws, and he makes them.
15:54But, you know, again, you make those throws normally when you're ahead of the sticks,
15:58and you can dictate how you get to those routes.
16:01And in the game against Jacksonville, too often, you're right,
16:04they were behind the sticks getting one or two yards on first down.
16:07And you've mentioned, Greg, before that they run a lot of tight-to-the-line formations
16:12and against a Ram defense that will stunt a lot.
16:16Is that, looking at the film, something that could be problematic for the 49ers
16:20against a very athletic defense up front?
16:23You know, this is something that I always think about with coaches when I watch tape.
16:26You know, all coaches have tendencies and staples.
16:31I mean, that's just – because what I hear a lot from coaches is coaches coach against coaches.
16:35You know, unless there's just a dynamic, unbelievable, transcendent player,
16:39and there's very few of those guys in the league, coaches coach against coaches.
16:43They know what the coaches are going to do in given situations.
16:46So, you know, so the balance for a coach is how much can I tweak realistically during a season
16:53versus how much do we try to get better at what we do well.
16:57And in a short week, it's not likely that you're going to see dramatic changes.
17:02I mean, teams don't even usually practice in a short week
17:05because players are, you know, are hurting from the game on Sunday.
17:08So it's more classroom work.
17:10It's more meetings.
17:11It's not really practice.
17:12So I don't know how much their offense can look different against this defense
17:17given that it's a short week and they're going to be playing with backup wide receivers.
17:21Greg Cosell, NFL Films.
17:23Greg, I think you sort of already answered this with the way you talked about the Niner run game
17:29earlier in this conversation.
17:31But can we focus just on Christian McCaffrey for a second?
17:35There are a lot of people here wondering, does he look, you know, kind of fully like himself?
17:41I know it's been a tough run as far as the hand he's been dealt with what's going on in front of him.
17:46But does he – how does he look to you on tape?
17:49Well, I mean, I guess when he made Kaiser on the eight-yard touchdown reception grab at air,
17:55I guess he probably looked okay.
17:57So, I mean, are we going to – you know, again, this is one of those conversations, guys.
18:01Are we going to, like, start evaluating every single run?
18:04And not you guys.
18:05I'm just talking, you know, I hope you understand that.
18:07You know, are we going to sit here and say, oh, gee, on that run, he didn't look great.
18:10Oh, well, no, that run, he looked pretty good.
18:12I mean, you know, I can't get caught up in that.
18:16I mean, to me, he looks fine.
18:17I don't watch him and go, oh, my God, this guy looks really slow.
18:21Or he just doesn't look – I mean, you know, when he made Kaiser grab at air
18:24and then scored a touchdown, I kind of felt like that kind of looked like Christian McCaffrey to me.
18:28Didn't he look like Christian McCaffrey to you on that?
18:31Yeah, and the other one, too, is on the hook and lateral where Ricky gets it
18:35and flips it to Christian, and he was able to get to the edge, get to the corner.
18:39And he showed burst on that.
18:40Yeah.
18:40He showed total burst.
18:43You know, it's funny.
18:44Sometimes backs – and I haven't necessarily noticed this with McCaffrey
18:48because I don't think he thinks like this.
18:50But every once in a while, backs – I've noticed this with Saquon Barkley this year, for instance.
18:53Sometimes when backs can't find space in the normal path, you know, the way the run is designed,
19:00sometimes they start looking and groping and searching, okay?
19:03And Barkley has a tendency to do that.
19:05I don't think McCaffrey does because if you notice, he does get hard yards.
19:10It might be two yards, but he gets hard yards.
19:13You know, he doesn't necessarily look to bounce or to run away from people.
19:17He kind of hits it up in there and gets whatever he can.
19:20And, like I said, it may only be two yards or three yards because I think he's only averaging, what,
19:24like 3.1 or 3.3, you know.
19:27But, you know, he doesn't look to do other things.
19:30It's just not clean and there's no space.
19:33But I don't think he looks any different than I would expect him to look.
19:37I think he looks fine.
19:39Greg, I want to go back to your previous comment about how coaches coach against coaches.
19:44And these two, they know each other so well.
19:47They came up together and obviously now coach against each other at least twice a year.
19:53So, in the past, when this matchup happens, what do you normally see them do?
19:58Do they kind of go bread and butter or do you often see them trying to, I don't know,
20:03show some new colors because they know that the other coach knows them so well?
20:07I mean, I can't think about every play, but I think these coaches are pretty much do what they do.
20:13I mean, again, I don't want to sit here and say that they never do anything different.
20:16You know, again, you'd have to evaluate every single play and break down and go back years, you know.
20:22But, you know, well, I'll give you an example, for instance.
20:25Here's, you know, Pukunakua.
20:27I think most people would probably say he's a really good receiver.
20:30Do you know that Pukunakua has 50 targets this year and only one time was he the single receiver to whatever side of the field he is on?
20:39He is never the single receiver, meaning he's never the boundary X, the single receiver to the short side of the field,
20:46which is normally the receiver everybody thinks is the top receiver on a team.
20:50The guy that is the single receiver to the short side of the field.
20:54He's always on a multiple receiver side.
20:57He's the motion guy.
20:59He's a great player, but he's very scheme-based in the Sean McVay offense.
21:04And McVay knows exactly how to use him.
21:07Look, it's like Jawan Jennings when he's healthy, okay?
21:10Jawan Jennings came out of Tennessee.
21:12He ran like a 4-7-4.
21:14Pretty much everybody thought there's no way this guy could play in the NFL.
21:18But when he's healthy, he fits this offense and exceptionally well for how he's deployed.
21:24You know, if you asked him to be a boundary X and have to win one-on-one against big-time corners every single week,
21:30he's probably not that guy.
21:31You know, and this is where coaching comes in, understanding how to deploy your players
21:36to maximize their trades and minimize their limitations.
21:40So, again, I can't sit here and say, gee, McVay has done this and it's different,
21:45or Kyle's done this and it's different.
21:47I truly can't answer that, guys.
21:49But teams, these coaches know how to deploy their players.
21:53Greg, great stuff as always.
21:55Yeah, we're looking forward to tomorrow night and then breaking it down with you next Wednesday.
21:59Yeah, you know, it should be a fun one to watch.
22:02I mean, you know, hey, maybe I'm a little different than you guys.
22:05I'm just hoping for a good competitive game that I can enjoy watching.
22:08I think, no, actually, I think Niner fans agree with you this time.
22:11Like, if you could have a close game in the fourth quarter, we'd be thrilled.
22:16Yeah, I mean, look, you know, obviously talking to you guys, it's always more fun when they win or maybe, who knows, you know.
22:22But we'll see what happens.
22:24Look, they're 3-1.
22:25I mean, it's not like they're a bad football team.
22:27Yeah, not the end of the world.
22:28So what I hear you say is take the Niners and the points.
22:32Thank you, Greg.
22:34Hey, I've never been on a sporting event in my life.
22:36I don't even follow that stuff.
22:37I don't even know what that means.
22:39Is that true?
22:39You've never done it once?
22:41Like, not even with a friend?
22:42Never once.
22:43And I don't play fantasy football.
22:45None of that stuff interests me.
22:47We just had Al Michaels on who has never eaten a vegetable.
22:50So a couple of nevers back-to-back.
22:52Never eaten a vegetable in his life?
22:54And he says Pooka Nakua hasn't either.
22:58Wow.
22:59How about that, Greg?
23:00You can see that on film.
23:03Wow.
23:04That's interesting.
23:05Well, I can't say that I've never eaten a vegetable or a cheesesteak, you know, or anything like that.
23:10But, you know, hey, that's the way it goes.
23:13Next time you see Pooka Nakua go over the middle, I want you to think about that for a minute.
23:18No carrots, Greg.
23:19So what does he eat?
23:20I don't know.
23:21Other stuff.
23:21He eats DBs for lunch is what he eats.
23:27Perfect.
23:28All right, Greg.
23:30All right, guys.
23:31Appreciate it.
23:32Thanks, as always.
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