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00:00I'm Nathan Zagura, Browns color commentator, and earlier in the show, Nathan, we talked about weather, the weather, our first
00:08real, real weather game where the elements could be a part of this matchup.
00:13And Anthony Meglin, who's in for Kent Carmen today, said that could actually help the Browns, the weather.
00:19What do you make, Nathan, when you get ready to diagnose the Houston Texans and the Cleveland Browns on Sunday?
00:26Well, first of all, it is great to be with you.
00:28Second of all, Oscar buzz.
00:32I mean, I don't know.
00:33Based on the trailer that I saw, the only Oscar that's going to have any familiarity with that film is
00:40The Grouch, because that might end up in the garbage can there with Nick Cage pretending to be Nick Cage,
00:45pretending to be John Madden.
00:47Nonetheless, I digress.
00:49I digress.
00:50I'm excited about it, too.
00:51I mean, I grew up in the barrier.
00:52Come on, John Madden, absolute legend.
00:54But in terms of the weather, yeah, I remember, you know, many years ago when I was down on the
01:00sidelines, we had a stretch at home where there was hellacious weather and we ended up beating the Texans.
01:05We beat the Eagles in games that probably in domes, perhaps maybe we wouldn't have at that time.
01:11And so, yeah, this is I think it is a good thing because the nastier, colder, more difficult it is
01:18to throw the football in this game.
01:19I think the better it is, honestly, for the Cleveland Browns.
01:21And you say, well, the Browns run defense has been the problem.
01:25Yes.
01:25And all the Saints ran all over the Browns.
01:27The Saints didn't score a touchdown until they did it exclusively throwing the football.
01:32They scored nine points, basically, in 55 minutes.
01:34So I'm not as concerned about that, not to mention, looks like David Montgomery is not ready to return yet
01:41for the Houston Texans.
01:42By the way, it was only averaging 2.7 yards a carry.
01:44Number two, Woody Marks, their leading rusher.
01:47It looks like he could be out.
01:48He had a DNP yesterday.
01:49And, you know, we talked to John McClain, the general has covered the NFL and football in Houston for five
01:56decades.
01:57And he said this is the worst run-blocking offensive line that he has ever seen.
02:01And so I think if this becomes a game where you've got to slog it out, it's good for the
02:06Browns.
02:06And I know that the Browns haven't run it well, but when they have, it's been against four men attacking
02:12one gap front.
02:13Guess what?
02:14That's what Tennessee was.
02:15Guess what the Houston Texans are?
02:16A four-man, a four-down, one-gap attack front.
02:20So it's a lot of things that we are used to going against all offseason.
02:23We saw the success against, obviously, Tennessee.
02:26Different personnel, clearly.
02:28This is a team where you've got to stay out of third and long with those great ends.
02:30But I do think that the Browns have an opportunity to run the football in this game.
02:34And I think bad weather or weather that made it difficult for C.J. Stroud to throw the football would
02:39be advantageous for the Cleveland Browns.
02:41Yeah, no doubt.
02:41No doubt.
02:42Z, this is pure joy for me getting to talk to you here.
02:47Oh, he's not that cool.
02:48Come on.
02:49I disagree.
02:50I'll handle that in a break, Z, for you there.
02:53I appreciate it.
02:54Let's play in a world where the sun is shining on Sunday afternoon.
02:59We're getting a beautiful day on the lake, and weather is not a factor.
03:02One thing that is a little bit of a concern is Ronnie Hickman popping up on the injury report and
03:07potentially not being available for Sunday.
03:10I see this as a big opportunity for Emmanuel McNeil-Warren, very similar to the Pittsburgh game when Grant goes
03:16down and he has to play the Thursday night game where he has to play almost all the snaps and
03:20really shows out and balls out and plays really, really well.
03:23How do you see a potential Ronnie Hickman absence affecting the Browns' defense, and how are they going to combat
03:30that?
03:31Well, I think you're exactly right, first of all, that it would be a lot more Emmanuel McNeil-Warren.
03:35And Emmanuel McNeil-Warren is one of my favorite players to watch on the Browns right now.
03:40The way that he covers ground, I think he's got great instincts.
03:43He is not afraid to have contact and to meet guys like Derrick Henry in the hole.
03:48And so he's an exciting player.
03:50I think that if there ever was a game where getting out of your big nickel or your big dime
03:56packages would be okay, it's this one.
03:59And my reasoning for that is, not to mention, though, Daniel Thomas played very well.
04:04He was one of the highest grade players on the defense when he had to step in in that Pittsburgh
04:07game that you referenced.
04:08So there is confidence in him.
04:10But this is a team where you're going to be in base nickel a lot more than you're going to
04:14be in big nickel.
04:15Because the biggest concern with the Houston Texans on a sunny day, as you laid out, is their ability to
04:20throw the football.
04:21And now with, you know, Nico Collins, two-time Pro Bowler, one of the best X receivers in the NFL,
04:25they bring in Marvin Harrison Jr.,
04:27take Dell's back, they've got Booty, they've got Hutchinson.
04:31I mean, they've got a lot of weapons in that pass game.
04:33And so it's much more likely that you're going to be matching up with them in your regular nickel and
04:38trying.
04:38This might be one of the rare games where you're inviting the run a little bit more than the pass.
04:43So I think if there ever was a game where the Browns, you know, weren't going to have all three
04:48of their top safeties,
04:49this is probably it because I think you might be in base nickel a little bit more than big nickel
04:53anyway.
04:55Nathan Zagura joining us right now on the hotline.
04:57We heard Jared Verse speak yesterday, and I'll give him credit.
05:01Like, even though he's not performing well, he still is facing the music.
05:05And you could see him yesterday kind of opening up about some of the issues that he's been having both
05:10on the field and off.
05:12What do you make of Jared Verse and the experience of having him in this defense so far this year?
05:20Well, we've been a really good defense.
05:21And as I said earlier in the year, or earlier talking to you, that, you know,
05:26there are a lot of things he's done that haven't shown up in the stat sheet.
05:29I call it kind of akin to a hockey assist where he's pushed the pocket,
05:33or he's been the one who's picked a defender that's allowed one of our defensive tackles to loop around that.
05:38Do you want more production?
05:40Yeah, you want staff to show up in the stat sheet.
05:42You want the guy with some defensive back to the year.
05:48One second, Nathan, we're having issues.
05:50We're going to try to reestablish.
05:51John, if you could come in and handle that with our Browns analyst on the radio network, Nathan Zagura.
05:57And I think as Nathan was going there, you know, he is, you know, when we're talking about Verse,
06:03he is contributing a lot.
06:04And I know we talked about this in the first hour early this morning.
06:08So if you weren't with us this morning, I think that, you know, a lot of the frustration from the
06:12fan base,
06:13a lot of the frustration from himself even, a lot of that goes away if he has a big game.
06:17You know, if he comes out and has a big game, because when I'm looking at this game,
06:21and this is when Nathan does get back in here, you know,
06:25I'm looking at the way that they win this football game is to force a couple turnovers.
06:28And if Jared can be involved in some of those, that would be a major thing.
06:33That would be nice.
06:34Nathan, go ahead and finish your thought.
06:35Yeah, sorry about that.
06:36I said that, you know, what we want from Jared Verse, though, is to show up in the statute.
06:40We want that real production, the negative plays, the sacks, the tackles for a loss.
06:44And, you know, I give him a lot of credit.
06:46I think that he's been under, when you're traded as the player, you know,
06:50there's a first round pick and a second round pick.
06:52But when you're traded as the player that is involved in a deal for Miles Garrett,
06:57your stats are going to be scrutinized.
06:59And he has not had the production that he wants.
07:02This is obviously the longest stretch in his career.
07:04Without a sack, this would be a great time for him to get it.
07:07Their tackles certainly are gettable here against C.J. Stroud and this Houston Texans team.
07:13So I give him credit for staying up there, for saying that I haven't been good enough.
07:17He's obviously going to work really hard.
07:18If there's anything that impressed me the most when I met him, this guy cares a lot.
07:22He is highly competitive.
07:23He wants to be great, and it hasn't happened.
07:26It's a change of scenery.
07:27It's a different defense.
07:28He's being asked to do different things as opposed to being a stand-up linebacker in a 3-4.
07:33And I think it will come together.
07:34He's still 25 years old.
07:36This is a Browns team that will be better when Jared Burst is firing on all cylinders.
07:41And clearly he wants to be, and it's affecting him.
07:44It's affecting him.
07:45And so as a fan, you know, the thing that would drive me the craziest is the guy he's not
07:51producing
07:51and doesn't care, he cares.
07:54And so hopefully, and he's talented, we know that, that he's going to be able to get that
07:57to the point where that translates into the production on the field.
08:00And, you know, Anthony's exactly right.
08:02I think that we need to get, we're going to need turnovers.
08:05Now, this is a team that doesn't give the football away, just four giveaways in their
08:09eight games.
08:09But we're going to need to play 60 minutes of clean football.
08:13This is not your typical 3-5 team.
08:16This is a team that's got seven pro bowlers out of their top 12 on defense.
08:20There's a team right now that, from a passing standpoint, is one of the most efficient in
08:23the National Football League.
08:25They are, it's crazy that they started off the way that they did, that they are, they're
08:29winless at home.
08:30But this is a very dangerous 3-5.
08:35Absolutely.
08:35It's very, very dangerous on that side of things.
08:38And, you know, the one loss that stands out to me, they lost to the Colts.
08:41They lost to the Indianapolis Colts in 19-17.
08:44That is, that's incredible here.
08:45Do we still have Z?
08:46Yeah, we'll try.
08:47One more time as he tries to re-establish.
08:49The thing about the defense is, they have now put up two total goose eggs in the Jacksonville
08:55game and the Pittsburgh game.
08:57And while they had held New Orleans to six, it's a little misleading because of the fumble.
09:03Granted, Swessinger made a great play, but it was also a rookie kind of doing something
09:06silly in his first NFL catch.
09:09And so they just could not stop.
09:11And we're seeing these, these defenses at the end of games, regardless of how good they've
09:15been the whole game, they get gassed.
09:16It's hard, man.
09:17It's, it's, it's hard.
09:18You saw it.
09:19I think the best example of it was the other night on Monday night with the Vikings.
09:23They were on the field for 43 minutes as the best team in the, as the best defense in
09:26all of football.
09:27And even they got gassed, right?
09:28So you're, you're seeing a lot of that.
09:30We're bringing Nathan Zaguro back here.
09:31Nathan, I want to flip back to the, back to the offensive side of the ball.
09:35Okay.
09:35So as I've been, as I've been trying to like put a plan together, I'm putting my coach hat on.
09:39I'm going to ask you to put your coach's hat on.
09:41Um, how do the Browns on offense, what, what it's kind of, what has to be their plan?
09:45Because if they think that they can go into this game and score 17 points and have a chance
09:50to win, I think those, I think that's a really small percentage that that gets done.
09:53So how do you, how do you see them attacking, uh, this, this Houston defense, especially with
09:59the edge rushers of Will Anderson, Jadavian Clowney, uh, Daniel Hunter and all the rest.
10:04Well, I think the most important thing in this game for the Browns on offense is to stay
10:07out of third and long because this is a team that, you know, leads the league in sacks
10:11of 29.
10:11They've only played eight games.
10:12They have 21 sacks without blitzing.
10:16That is the most in the NFL.
10:17You've got Anderson.
10:18You got the Neil Hunter, Jadavian Clowney.
10:20He's having a nice year as well.
10:21Sheldon Rankin's in the middle.
10:22So you have to stay out of those third and long thinking, and I'm trying to just think
10:26about this from a mentality standpoint, right?
10:29We are very good in the fourth quarter.
10:31And when we need to be aggressive on offense, we've been a very good offense.
10:35We have not been a very good offense.
10:38And so I think part of that is because we have a very much a mentality that, look, we
10:42have this excellent defense.
10:44As long as we don't turn the football over, we can stay in games.
10:47And I think in a game like this, I agree with you.
10:50I think it'll be very difficult to kind of, now, if the weather's bad, I think we can win
10:53a slog it out, run grind out game.
10:56But if the weather's good, we're going to need to score, I'm guessing in the mid twenties
11:00and maybe the mindset should be instead of, Hey, let's not turn it over.
11:05Let's be conservative.
11:07Let's just be safe.
11:08Think about last week.
11:09Shador did not attempt to pass of more than 10 yards in the air in the first half.
11:12The first pass over 10 yards in the air was the one to Boston.
11:15That's what he does.
11:16Well, the Sean's thrown the ball down the field well this year also.
11:19So maybe the mentality should be, we have this great defense.
11:22So let's be aggressive.
11:24Let's try to get into a race to 24 points.
11:26And if we happen to throw a pick along the way, guess what?
11:28We have a great defense that can bail us out or mitigate the impact of that turnover to
11:34some degree.
11:35And maybe that's the mentality we need to have to be a little bit more gunslingy early
11:39because when we're forced to do it, we've been pretty good.
11:43But you think about the throw to Jerry Judy in New Orleans, that throw is not made in the
11:46first half of the game.
11:47You think about on the game winning drive to Jerry Judy against Pittsburgh, that 17 yard
11:52dig, that throw is definitely not made early in a game.
11:55And so maybe that's got to be the mentality shift because I think this team, you know,
12:00after the buy, you have a couple of ones that maybe are going to be a little bit easier.
12:03But for example, when Cincinnati comes to town, you're not going to beat Cincinnati.
12:07I think it's hard to imagine a world in which you beat Cincinnati 17 to 13.
12:11So maybe we got to play with urgency and aggressiveness on offense.
12:14And if we happen to turn the ball over a little bit here or there, but we're scoring.
12:17So be it.
12:18Yeah.
12:19I told in our, in our last break, I went Lyman and I were talking.
12:21I said, Hey, get in the stadium, put the quarter on the scoreboard as a number
12:25four, and then just run two minute, run two minute drill up and down the field.
12:28Because, you know, I think that you, you say, I say that in a general sense, but what the
12:33two minute drill and what the more so the up-tempo, up-tempo approach, it puts the defense
12:38on their heels.
12:39Now it's very risky because like you said, you have to stay out of third and longs.
12:42You have to continue to control the clock, but that's when these quarterbacks are at
12:46their best.
12:46And, and, and Z like I, when I look at this game, I, we were talking earlier in my mind,
12:51this is a playoff game and they need to have the highest sense of urgency.
12:54They need to, to approach this.
12:56And from Todd Munkin's perspective and Travis Schweitzer, like throw caution to the wind.
13:00Like we need your best game plan of all time.
13:03Like throw the kitchen sink at them.
13:04And to do that, I would, I would love to see some tempo early in this game, get that first,
13:08first down and put the pedal down and really try to push the urgency and push the, push
13:13it onto the, the Houston defense.
13:15Yeah.
13:16I'm with you.
13:16And I think you have to try to run the football at the ends a little bit just to make
13:20them,
13:20you know, show up in the run game.
13:22You've got to run some screens to try to slow that upfield rush, but, and use some traps,
13:27use some whams.
13:28Um, similar as Nate, sorry to cut you off.
13:30Similar to what, um, Pittsburgh did to us in the second, in the second game.
13:34Absolutely.
13:34But that's, and, and so that's funny.
13:36That's the chess match.
13:37I was talking with, with coach Munkin about this yesterday is that this is a team in Houston.
13:41They don't blitz because they don't need to, they play cover three or a little bit of cover
13:46one, but basically they're a single high team.
13:48They're a high percentage zone team.
13:50They don't do anything fancy or tricky.
13:52You know what you're going to get from them, but on the same time, they know the runs that
13:56work against their front.
13:57They know the concepts that work against their coverages.
13:59And so they're ready for them.
14:01It's going to come down to who executes better in a, in a known situation.
14:05It's very similar.
14:05Todd said, when I was with Baltimore and we played you guys with Jim Schwartz, I knew what
14:10you guys were going to do on defense.
14:12You knew that I knew what you guys were going to do on defense.
14:14It came down.
14:14Could we out execute you?
14:16And if we could, we could win.
14:17And I think that's going to be a lot of what this game is here for the Cleveland Browns.
14:22Can we out execute a Houston Texans team that has been bad at the end of games where we've
14:28been great.
14:28And so can we make, keep this a close game into the fourth where we've had our magic and
14:33find a way to pull it out?
14:3420 seconds, Nathan Watson safe.
14:38No matter what is the starting quarterback this weekend.
14:41I would think so.
14:42I mean, he's been five and three.
14:43I think that he's played generally speaking well and done what he's been asked to do.
14:48You know, I think as the season goes on, you know, these things will be in flux.
14:52And the only way that that would become a question is if we're not winning football games.
14:55And so if Deshaun, you know, is winning and we're in the hunt, I think he continues to
15:00play quarterback.
15:01Nathan Zagura on the wise heart, right?
15:03We make it right.
15:03Call cow, right?
15:04Hotline.
15:04We'll see you.
15:05Good luck and have fun this weekend, Nathan.
15:07All right, guys.
15:08All right.
15:09Nathan Zagura.
15:09Wow.
15:11Sandy thinks Deshaun Watson has earned it.
15:13And saying the weather might be a factor.
15:15Yeah.
15:15In a good way.
15:16We will get to that.
15:17Plus, are we going to allow it?
15:18There's no Ken Carman.
15:19He's on his way to Notre Dame.
15:21Are we going to allow a very special edition?
15:24An Anthony, Anthony, Anthony version of coming in hot final segment of the show.
15:30Too many Tonys is what they're calling it.
15:32All right.
15:32Well, we'll see.
15:33That's coming up straight ahead here on Sports Radio 92.
15:35Three, two, three.
15:36The fifth.
15:36The fifth.