00:00Todd Munkin confirming in ways the Jeremy Fowler report for Monday
00:04saying the Browns were going back due to Sean Watson for the Houston game,
00:09and that has opened up several cans of worms.
00:12He also talked about the Shador Sanders report,
00:15the topic that he gave to A.J. Ross,
00:18which has become a big talking point as well,
00:20to talk about all these many things.
00:21We hand out of the Wiseheart, right?
00:23We make it right.
00:23Call Kyle Wright Hotline.
00:25She joins us every single Wednesday here at 320.
00:29Ashley Bastock of Cleveland.com and the Orange and Brown Talk Report.
00:33Ashley, welcome back to the show.
00:35Hey, guys.
00:36How are you?
00:37Doing all right here.
00:38I hope you're doing all right as well.
00:40Were you surprised in any way that the Browns went back to the Sean Watson today?
00:46Not really.
00:47I mean, I think this was the decision that made sense.
00:51I think, like, the one thing that maybe gave me pause this week
00:56was when Todd Munkin talked on Monday,
00:58and it was after that ESPN report initially came out,
01:01and still wasn't willing to commit.
01:04So not sure what that was all about,
01:07if it was part of the game planning or what.
01:10But, you know, those early parts of the week,
01:14typically Mondays and Tuesdays,
01:16that's when opposing teams are getting their game plan together.
01:18So, you know, if they thought, hey, it might be beneficial
01:21to make the Texans' defense second guess on who's going to be playing,
01:25I mean, that sort of stuff happens all the time.
01:27But I do think, like, it just makes sense.
01:30And Todd Munkin's explanation today is kind of how I've thought about it,
01:34is looking at the body of work, he has those five wins.
01:37I wonder if the Browns had actually won that game in New Orleans,
01:42if Shador Sanders had fully led that comeback,
01:44would it have made this decision a little bit harder?
01:46But, again, unanswerable question right now.
01:50I think just given the five wins, the comeback victories that they've had,
01:54I'm not surprised that they're going back to Deshaun this week,
01:57especially against this Texans defense that has really hit its stride
02:01over these last three or four games.
02:03Do you envision after the Texans game,
02:05I was just continuing to talk about, should Deshaun be done?
02:08Should it go to Shador?
02:09Like, I feel like if he doesn't look good this week,
02:12and, again, I'm open to the idea, he looks good,
02:14you move to six and four, and that conversation's put to bed for at least
02:17an extended stretch.
02:18But if he doesn't look good, do you feel like there's, again,
02:21we're just going to open up the same convo over and over again?
02:24Yeah, I mean, I certainly think it's a possibility.
02:26And even before the season started, you know,
02:30looking at where this five week falls in week 11 for them,
02:35that kind of felt like the natural point for me for those conversations
02:41may be heating up, like, I agree that if they win,
02:45it's probably not as much of an issue.
02:47But I think if they lose, and they lose their third straight,
02:50and they're sitting at five and five at that point after being five and two,
02:54and you like what you saw from Shador,
02:56and you know you're a team that has to know what he brings
02:59because you have some quarterback questions that you really have to answer
03:03going into this offseason,
03:05then, like, I do wonder if that conversation internally during the bye week
03:09would heat up because the bye weeks are always sort of a natural reset point
03:13for NFL teams, like, especially when they fall around the midpoint of the season,
03:18really give you a chance to dive in, see what's working, what's not.
03:22And, you know, I've kind of long had my eye on that bye week for
03:26will those discussions happen,
03:28but I do think so much of it's going to hinge on this upcoming week
03:32against the Texans, how he looks,
03:34and whether they win and improve to six and four.
03:38Ashley, today, Deshaun Watson said it's just another game,
03:43this Texans game.
03:46I'm just curious whether you actually believe him
03:48because he does tend to be pretty tamp things down,
03:51even if it tends to be a big deal,
03:52unless his emotions get the best of him.
03:55He does.
03:56You know what?
03:56I do believe him just because he played his former team already,
04:01and it was, like, under the most intense circumstances,
04:04I think you could have.
04:06It was his first game back in 2022 from that suspension,
04:09and it was on the road.
04:11And I know even when the schedule came out,
04:13we said the match has kind of lost its luster in that regard a little bit.
04:18Obviously, the personnel changes have been so intense since that time.
04:23He was there.
04:24Like, there's not a lot of guys left that he would have played with.
04:27So, I do believe him that it's lost that element of it.
04:32Now, he does, you know, tend to tamp things down a little bit.
04:35So, if he uses that to get himself fired up,
04:39that also wouldn't surprise me.
04:40But I do think, like, it's just not the same as it was four years ago
04:45when he had to go back in the first game he played post-suspension
04:50was that game in Houston.
04:52Yeah, Ashley, from a matchup perspective, though,
04:54it does feel like this is one of the worst matchups that Deshaun could have.
04:58I mean, they're D-line in how they get the amount of sacks they did.
05:02I know the Chargers stink, but they got home eight times last week,
05:04and they just continue to get after quarterbacks.
05:07Yeah, and, I mean, Will Anderson leading the NFL right now
05:11with, I think it's nine and a half sacks.
05:13Yeah, nine and a half sacks.
05:14Hunter has four sacks for them.
05:17Jadavian Clowney has three and a half.
05:19Rankins has four.
05:20So the sack production is pretty spread out.
05:23So I agree.
05:24I mean, I think this is a tough matchup,
05:25and this is not the Texans that started the season, right?
05:29I mean, this could be an instance of you talk about catching teams
05:32at a bad time.
05:34I think the Browns might be catching them at a bad time.
05:36They started out 0-4, and now they've won three out of their last four.
05:41So two of those wins have come against the Titans and the Chargers,
05:45but a win is a win.
05:47The sack production is really heating up.
05:49I do think there is an element to sacks being contagious,
05:52and we know that Deshaun is the most sacked quarterback in the league.
05:57So I'm sure they are licking their chops to try to find these holes
06:01that other teams have managed to find.
06:04So definitely they're going to have their hands full this week
06:07with that Texans pressure and trying to figure out how to manage that.
06:12Ashley, Quinshawn Judkins, not good again this last weekend
06:17and against a Saints defense that had not been good against the run.
06:21He had 15 carries.
06:23Dylan Sampson up to eight carries, which was a season high for him.
06:27Are we on the precipice of a more balanced running back situation,
06:32or do you think Quinshawn will still be getting 65% to 70% to 75% of the carries
06:38this week?
06:40It's a good question.
06:41I mean, my guess would be that he would still get the majority of the carries
06:46because I think you want Dylan Sampson's usage to be what it is.
06:51I mean, obviously we've seen if you use him too much, the injury risk with him,
06:55I think is obvious at this point, right?
06:59And I've said like the eight to 10 carries for him to me feels perfect.
07:04And then you get him a few targets in the past game.
07:06He had six.
07:07Like, I think you want maybe 15 to 20 total touches at maximum
07:13for Dylan Sampson in any individual game.
07:16But, yeah, it's so interesting because, you know, we talked in the offseason
07:21that Quinshawn in those practices, he looked like the injury wasn't bothering him.
07:26Everyone's been adamant the injury has not been bothering him.
07:29But I always do wonder when you have young players who come back
07:32from significant season-ending injuries,
07:35how they're going to handle the mental part of being in an actual game
07:39and getting hit and everything that comes with that.
07:41And, you know, I'll always kind of wonder if that is playing a factor
07:45with him this season, coupled with teams just having all that film on him
07:50from last year and being able to know that style a little bit better.
07:56So I think all of those things are at play.
07:59But I don't think the solution is necessarily to put more on Dylan Sampson's plate
08:04right now because I think you're getting really good production out of him
08:07using him the way that you are.
08:09Ashley, Todd responded to the A.J. Ross report from the game over the weekend.
08:13And, I mean, he kind of went over the top, I thought, a little bit.
08:16He's like, it's hilarious.
08:17And it's like, all right, settle down a little bit, Todd.
08:19But what did you make of that interaction and then initially the report
08:24that aired during the game?
08:26Yeah, it was funny because I was trying to listen to the game broadcast
08:30in the Superdome where obviously it's one of the loudest places that a game can happen
08:36and it's an open-air press box.
08:37So it was really hard to hear.
08:39And I, like, vaguely remember hearing that in real time.
08:41But it's like I couldn't fully make out what A.J. Ross was reporting.
08:46So then seeing it after the fact and hearing Todd talk about it today,
08:50I think, like, to me it's just kind of what Todd Munkin does,
08:53where he'll go in these meetings and even with us.
08:56I mean, we've seen it time and time again.
08:58He gets into storytelling mode with these little anecdotes.
09:02And it's just sort of how he is.
09:06And, I mean, when I heard it, when I saw it making the round again,
09:09I just took it as sort of an off-the-cuff kind of lighthearted moment more than anything.
09:15Like, I didn't think it was a, oh, my gosh, the quarterback was so unprepared.
09:20He was asking this, which I know some people on social media were trying to make it out to be.
09:25And Todd clarified that today.
09:26This wasn't, like, in the meeting.
09:27It was in the hallway.
09:29And it wasn't a big deal.
09:30But I do think this is Todd Munkin learning that with Shador Sanders,
09:34just about everything becomes a story, right?
09:37And this is, like, his first, I think, real soiree into that fire a little bit.
09:43Feels like he should have learned that one already, Ashley.
09:46Have you heard my Todd Munkin impression?
09:50No.
09:51All right.
09:52So let me know if you think you've listened to a lot of Todd Munkin here.
09:54A lot of Todd Munkin.
09:55All right.
09:56I've got to get in the right voice.
09:57I've got to think like Munkin.
09:58This is an exciting debut.
10:00It's a very –
10:00I've actually heard it before.
10:02Yeah, yeah, yeah.
10:02It's one of his better ones.
10:03Yeah.
10:04Ashley, I've got to –
10:06Sorry, you can't laugh.
10:09Ashley, I've got to tell you, that's the dumbest question I've ever heard.
10:12That's a little more Dick Vitale than I wanted it to be.
10:14It did, yeah.
10:15Not as good as your usual.
10:17I think it's, like, built it up, and then you said it was really good.
10:20There's pressure there.
10:21That's why I've got to keep you humble always.
10:22There was some performance anxiety.
10:23Yeah, yeah.
10:23The moment I start to talk too highly of you, it just goes –
10:26Oh, that's where it is.
10:26That was better.
10:27Yeah, that.
10:28Nope, nope.
10:29Gone.
10:29Stop giving me compliments.
10:30Gone.
10:30So how bad was that, Ashley?
10:33I'm going to give you, like –
10:34You know what?
10:35I'll give you, like, a five right now out of ten.
10:38That's fair.
10:38I'll give you a five, middle of the road.
10:40I'm not going to be too hard on you.
10:41I can appreciate the pressure you were under in that moment.
10:44You don't quite have it, but I can see the workings to you getting there.
10:47See, that's how you support a friend.
10:49You don't quite have it.
10:50Actually, earlier he said these guys weren't hitting on me, and it was very –
10:54I don't think they were hitting on him.
10:54I think there was just two guys ordered some pie, and –
10:56They said I had a very young face.
10:59They were –
10:59Oh.
11:00You know, they offered me a drink.
11:02It was a –
11:02You could tell –
11:04They were trying to make really intense eye contact, where one of them was.
11:06I think they would have slept with anybody.
11:08I don't think it was Nick specific.
11:09I'm special, and I'd like you to acknowledge that they thought I was special.
11:13You see where it gets insulting there, Ashley.
11:14It's 10 o'clock strange that happened to stumble onto their doorstep.
11:18I'm going to get tweets about this being off the rails, and this time it had nothing to do with
11:22me.
11:23Yep.
11:23That is fair.
11:24Well, why don't you tell her the story, and then we'll find out if she actually thinks they're hitting on
11:27me or not.
11:27I feel like she's got the crib notes right now.
11:29I feel like she can make the, you know –
11:30Nick had elongated eye contact and then believed that the guy was hitting on him, and it's like, it takes
11:35two to tango, Nick.
11:36This guy was – I was trying to break off the eye contact.
11:39It takes multiple people to have that much eye contact.
11:40You can't have eye contact with yourself, Nick.
11:41This guy, every time I would, like, move my eyes down, he was trying to, like, get on the level
11:46of my eyes.
11:47Yeah.
11:47See?
11:48So you hear that?
11:49That – thank you, Ashley.
11:52The defense rests.
11:53It takes two to tango.
11:55I mean, eye contact is a big thing.
11:57It's a big body language sort of thing.
12:00Yeah, I don't know.
12:00You might be onto something, Nick.
12:01What message was Nick sending by matching that eye contact?
12:03No, no.
12:03I was trying to take my eyes down.
12:05That's what I wanted to know.
12:06He was refusing.
12:07What message were you sending?
12:09His whole person.
12:10That guy was – wow.
12:12Wow was he hitting on me.
12:14Yeah.
12:14I can't believe how much this guy – delivering pies to my door.
12:18This guy's just hitting on me.
12:19Ashley, do the Browns have a Spencer Fano problem?
12:23Do the Browns have a Spencer Fano problem?
12:25Yes.
12:26I don't think necessarily, you know.
12:28I think rookie tackles, there's some growing pains.
12:31I think there are other issues on this line that obviously go beyond.
12:36You know, two of your veterans, Titus Howard and Zion Johnson, have gotten called for a ton of penalties this
12:43season.
12:43You know, Titus was the one who got whistled for the penalty on the two-point conversion that ultimately didn't
12:48count against them because they didn't complete the pass.
12:51But had they completed the pass, that hold would have negated it, and they would have had to replay it.
12:56So, yeah, I think that it's unfair to pin all the O-line issues on rookie left tackle who's being
13:05asked to do a lot.
13:06And I think these guys need some time.
13:09But, you know, two weeks ago, I think it was – or before the – I'm losing track of the
13:15weeks we're in.
13:15I think the Tennessee game, George Warhop said they thought was his best game of the season before the Saints
13:22game this past week.
13:23So, that part of it is interesting.
13:26Or it could have been the Tennessee was one of his worst ones.
13:28You know what, guys?
13:28I'm losing track of where we are in the season.
13:31No, the Tennessee game was – I think he had a 0% pressure rate against Jacob Martin.
13:36Yeah, yeah.
13:37So, I mean, he's shown some flashes.
13:40But, you know, I think with all rookies, there are growing pains.
13:43And, again, he's not the only rookie even on this line.
13:45And it's a line that's never played together before.
13:47So, I wouldn't blame too much on Spencer Fano or make any sweeping declarations about him at this stage only
13:54nine games in.
13:56Ashley, we appreciate you.
13:57Thanks for putting up with us.
13:59And we'll talk to you next week.
14:00Thank you, Ashley.
14:01All right.
14:01Thanks, guys.
14:02Ashley Bastock there on the Wise Heart Right.
14:05We Make It Right.
14:05Call Kyle Wright Hotline.
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