00:00Munkin's been validated by his thought process.
00:02He's been validated by the results.
00:04And again, this is not suggesting that Deshaun Watson's the greatest football player we've
00:07ever seen either, because that's not true.
00:09But the idea that he's getting better each week, and it seems like he's on the upward
00:13trajectory, gives you a lot to at least be inspired by.
00:15I also feel like Deshaun isn't getting enough credit, and I can't believe those words are
00:19coming out of my mouth, but for the gamer stuff, whether it's end of quarter, two-minute
00:24drives, and certainly end of the game stuff, I know that doesn't necessarily, it's all
00:30treated equally in EPA and all the other stats that you have out there.
00:34I weight that stuff more importantly, because that's what we really haven't gotten consistently
00:39ever really as Browns fans since Bernie Kosar, but certainly in the last 26 years.
00:44Well, there's an element to his game right now that we all really, everyone listening
00:47right now could not have predicted would be as effective as it is right now, and that's
00:50using his legs.
00:51Like, it just, in no world, in no crystal ball do we have, Deshaun Watson would be the
00:56third best running quarterback this season, as far as yards on the ground are concerned.
01:01Like, you think after the surgeries, after the injuries that he's had, he just, he's
01:05going to be a statue back there.
01:06He's going to be basically Jared Goff back there, and it just hasn't been true.
01:10And within that, like, when we talked about why do I think he's a better quarterback than
01:14Aaron Rodgers is right now, if you remove the last names and just looked at them quarterbacking,
01:19why I say Deshaun Watson's better, despite having fewer touchdowns and fewer passing
01:23yards this season, is because of what he can do with his feet and what he can do with
01:26his legs.
01:27And what is a shame about this game is that even though I think if the Browns win this
01:33game, there is going to be an uptick of credit for Munkin, for Deshaun, for this team
01:38in general.
01:40But because the coverage map of the 1 p.m.
01:42game is so small for a game of this magnitude.
01:46Yeah, everyone's listening to Ross this weekend.
01:47And because the Bills and Ravens game is going on at the same time, and because half the media
01:52wants to tell you, and I'm not trying to do the media thing, but half the media doesn't
01:55believe in the Steelers team.
01:57So this should be a game that if Deshaun has another, let's even go 250 yards, and you
02:03win this game, that should be an arrival moment for him outside of Cleveland, and for some
02:11people in Cleveland.
02:12I don't think it will be.
02:13And it's wild, because I think you're going to start to see more of a disparity on how
02:18Deshaun is viewed in Cleveland.
02:19And this is typical, by the way, because everybody nationally tends to fall back on the stats
02:24side of things, is their primary analysis, versus the national take, which I think is still
02:30going to be, well, it's eight games, look at the schedule, and we don't really believe
02:34in the Steelers or the Browns.
02:35This is why primetime games matter.
02:37Everyone thinks we make such a big deal about the schedule game, but part of why primetime
02:40games matter.
02:40Or just any game, individually.
02:42Well, but why primetime games matter, Nick, is because they're influenced heavily by what
02:47they see in those spots, in those moments.
02:49And we had our one, the Thursday night game, and that was really big, I think, in portraying
02:54Deshaun Watson as this quarterback that can actually get things done.
02:57That second quarter against the Steelers in that Thursday night game.
03:00And everyone in the football world was like, wow, Deshaun's back.
03:03Deshaun is back.
03:04He's looking awesome.
03:05This is something that's sustainable.
03:06All these other things.
03:08And then he's just kind of got tucked away in the closet for four weeks.
03:11And I do think, like, I'm not ready to say officially and unilaterally I was wrong
03:17about Deshaun yet.
03:18But we are getting much closer to a spot.
03:21And I'll actually lay out the circumstances right now.
03:25A win on Sunday will pick up 80% of the leg room here.
03:29But I'm going to wait until after the first 10 games.
03:33Because that'll get you to the bye, right?
03:34Okay.
03:34If after the first 10 games he's still healthy and playing on average the way he has the
03:40first seven games of the season, and you are a seven-win team, a six-win team, six or seven,
03:46six-seven win team, I'm going to have to look at this and go, all right, if I didn't believe
03:51Shador would have you at five and two, I sure as hell didn't think Deshaun was going to be
03:56to week 10, and you having won either 60 or 70% of your games.
04:00Yeah, well, I think a guy like Emery, though, will say the thing about Shador is I think,
04:04and this has been basically where a lot of national people take their Browns coverage,
04:10the players on this team are doing a lot of the heavy lifting.
04:14And so, like, there is an element of, and this is what Andrew Berry has built, by the way,
04:18so this is not a negative towards Deshaun, and he gets a lot of credit for the game-winning
04:21drives and a lot of credit for what he's done in the fourth quarters in particular.
04:24But a lot of what Andrew Berry has tried to build is you can make this thing plug-and-play.
04:28You can make this thing, the quarterback position matters more than anything,
04:31but you can make this where, as of right now, Deshaun Watson, if he's 24th in EPA,
04:36if you get that level of play, you can win a lot of games.
04:38How much would a win on Sunday prove to you as a Browns fan?
04:42I think we've talked a lot about Deshaun's play, buying him goodwill in Cleveland.
04:48If I'm talking about how important this game is, and somehow, by the way,
04:53we're not on an island on this.
04:55Anyone downplaying the importance of this game is on the island.
04:57I won't act like a majority of Clevelanders have downplayed this game.
05:01It's just two guys who work on this station.
05:04And good luck to them.
05:05More power to them.
05:06And it's not Baskin and Phelps.
05:07Yeah, and it's not Jake Volnick or Anthony Allant.
05:10You threw Allant in there as the second.
05:11I did.
05:12I did.
05:12I heard his voice on 2020 today.
05:14It made me happy.
05:15I like Allant.
05:15Oh, in the morning.
05:16Yeah, in the morning.
05:19I don't talk about anybody else.
05:21Susie in Cleveland, welcome to the show.
05:24Hi.
05:25Great to be on.
05:26I love listening to you guys on my way home.
05:27Long-time Browns fan was at every playoff game they lost in the 80s.
05:31Yay for me.
05:34I have a theory on Deshaun.
05:36I feel like with all of his injuries, he did dedicate more time rehabbing and building strength.
05:43And he just looked more muscular.
05:45So I feel like he should be in the best shape running because he had to put so much effort
05:52into rehabbing from his injuries.
05:55I don't know.
05:55What do you think?
05:56All right.
05:56So I will address that in a moment.
05:58Susie, because I felt this way when I've been to like three straight Indians slash Guardians games and they've lost.
06:05At some point.
06:06You're not the jinx, Susie.
06:07But did you feel that way?
06:09I'm not saying.
06:09There's no such thing.
06:10You're not the jinx.
06:11Okay, let's not say there's no such thing.
06:12But did you feel like the jinx?
06:13There's no such thing.
06:15Well, you know, I kind of, I wondered about that.
06:18But they were such crazy games.
06:21I mean, I was so thankful to be there with my dad and brothers.
06:24I was like, you know what?
06:26This is what it means to be a Browns fan, freezing your butt off and losing.
06:30That would be accurate.
06:31I've shared some of those experiences, too.
06:34That is a funny little twist on the Browns fandom is that Browns fans don't necessarily think they're the jinx.
06:38They just think the Browns are the whole or the jinx.
06:40But at some point, you've got so much overwhelming data.
06:44Susie, thank you so much for listening and hanging out.
06:47Absolutely.
06:48Thank you, Susie.
06:49All right.
06:49So I don't think we're seeing Deshaun at full form here.
06:53But I do think there's something to be said about did two years off help him in some ways?
06:59Yeah.
07:00Yeah.
07:01He had the crap kicked out of him for three or four years.
07:04And I do think that extra time off, not activating him last year in December, I'm sure that probably helped
07:11him a little bit.
07:12I don't think he doesn't look any bigger to me than what he used to look like.
07:16Yeah.
07:16Do you think he got some creatine in him?
07:17You think he started?
07:18It is legal.
07:20That's right.
07:20It is.
07:21Over the counter, as advertised.
07:22But like, you think he, I don't know, when we've seen Deshaun up close, I've never thought big guy.
07:28No.
07:28I definitely never thought that he got bigger than what we've seen before.
07:30No, I mean, if anything, the knock on Deshaun coming out was that he was too slight.
07:34And there are still times where I watch him run.
07:37Yeah.
07:37And again, he's running around defensive linemen, which is not the greatest comparison, where I get very concerned.
07:43Now, to build on what Susie said, what has blown me away is how at points he does look.
07:50He's not as fast as he was at Houston or Clemson.
07:53But every once in a while, I'll have a moment where I was like, oh, that was a very, that
07:58was a very fast twitch moment from him.
08:00And that's something I didn't think we'd get really ever again from him.
08:03No, I mean, I highlighted the running for a reason.
08:05You're third in the NFL right now in rushing yards for quarterback.
08:08Like, he's doing, he's never going to get the credit that a Lamar does, obviously, and he shouldn't.
08:13He's not going to get the credit that even a Josh Allen does.
08:15But the running game for him has been an absolute game changer in how we evaluate him and how he's
08:19played.
08:20Robert and Parma, welcome to the show.
08:22Good afternoon, gentlemen. Thank you so much.
08:24Good afternoon.
08:26I think it would be huge for the Browns to win on Sunday.
08:28What's it been since the last time they won it in Pittsburgh?
08:312023, sir.
08:33In Pittsburgh?
08:34Yes, sir.
08:34That's a playoff game. In the regular season, it's 2003.
08:38Okay, thank you, yeah. And nobody was there.
08:41It still counted, though.
08:43It did, and I appreciated it.
08:45Did it count less for you?
08:47No.
08:48But I think it would be a huge monkey off the back, just to finally get that win in Pittsburgh,
08:53regular season game, regardless of who the coach, quarterback, anyone else has been.
08:58We just haven't been able to do it.
08:59So I think even if it's an ugly win, it's a great win.
09:02Now, it's interesting, real quick here, because some are saying it's just one out of 17 games.
09:07If you heard somebody in a position of authority, like a broadcaster, professional broadcaster,
09:14who took themselves way too seriously, I'm sorry, who took themselves seriously,
09:18and they said it's just one of 17, and it's not that big a game, would you think less of
09:24that person?
09:26It is true, it's one of 17.
09:27I would not think less of them, but it's been one of 17 or one of 16 that we've just
09:32not been able to win, period.
09:33I was really hoping you'd say you think less of that.
09:36That's a very nice way, though.
09:37You're a very nice guy, Robert.
09:39We appreciate you, buddy.
09:41216-474-0092.
09:42That was a setup, and then a...
09:44Hey, we tried.
09:45We didn't try anything.
09:46Listen, Robert couldn't say anything he didn't believe, and I appreciate that.
09:50He's just being honest.
09:51Yeah.
09:51Yeah, he's just honest.
09:52That's it.
09:53Honest Rob, as I call him.
09:55Yeah, I call him kind Rob, because I think he was protecting the feelings of people who can't, you know,
10:01say one of the biggest games we've seen with Cleveland and Pittsburgh in a very long time is a big
10:05game,
10:06which I...
10:06I just can't believe we woke up having to defend that.
10:10I...
10:10It's just wild to me.
10:12Hey, Steelers game, big game, playing for AFC North title.
10:16Okay.
10:17I just, I really want, I would have him call in,
10:20but apparently we don't take each other's call on the air anymore.
10:23I would have this person call in.
10:25We're definitely not taking him.
10:26Oh, not a chance in hell.
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