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00:00Is tonight the night we find out whether the Browns are actually good?
00:022-1-6-4-7-4-0-0-92.
00:04That's the question I want to start with, Spencer.
00:06I think part of this depends on how you feel about the Steelers.
00:09Because I've been somebody who's kind of doubted the Steelers this year.
00:12Like, this did, to me, kind of feel like maybe this is the year
00:15with Aaron Rodgers, another year older,
00:17and he's, like, so hot and cold it seemed like last year
00:20throughout the season that maybe this is a year they take a step back
00:25and they do end up near the top of the draft,
00:26draft and a quarterback.
00:27But I will say, like, it's going to be hard to deny
00:31if the Browns get to 3-1, and I understand people will try to, like,
00:35punch holes in it, like, well, look at their schedule, look at their schedule.
00:37But if the Browns get to 3-1, I don't know how you walk away from this game
00:41feeling anything other than, yeah, we maybe underestimated this Browns team
00:46and the Todd Munkin impact and Deshaun Watson maybe figuring something out
00:50finally in year five here in Cleveland.
00:52Because then you start looking ahead and it's like, okay,
00:54you got the Jets the week after that.
00:56You got the Titans three weeks after that.
00:58And it's like, there's a lot of winnable games here.
01:00And so how can you not feel like if the Browns are 3-1 after tonight,
01:03they have a legitimate shot at being in the playoff picture.
01:06And if you're in the playoff picture, to me, like,
01:07that kind of is the telltale sign that you're a pretty good team.
01:10I mean, yeah, I agree.
01:11I think doing it against the AFC North matters in a way that it just doesn't,
01:15it doesn't hit the same doing it against the NFC South teams.
01:17It just, doing it against the Panthers and doing it against the Buccaneers,
01:20like, it just doesn't have that same feel for Browns fans, as it shouldn't.
01:26We always use as a measuring stick.
01:27It's funny, for years, though, when the Browns were bad, we'd turn around and be like,
01:31well, at least we got the AFC North games, because AFC North games are a crapshoot.
01:35But now those same things that we're saying, like it being a crapshoot,
01:38is also some of the things we're leaning on.
01:40Like, this is how you find out if you're actually a good football team.
01:43Because, like, for instance, in the Buccaneers game and even the Panthers game,
01:48Winshaw doesn't have to run the ball particularly well, and you can still win those games,
01:51as evidenced by what happened in those games.
01:53You can't have a poor running game and expect to go out and beat the Steelers.
01:57You can't have a poor running game and expect to beat the Ravens.
01:59Like, that's just not how AFC North football works.
02:02Yeah, that's always the telltale or the go-to thing, right, is like AFC North football is more physical.
02:07It's usually the run game has to be involved, all these different things.
02:09And I'll say this, like, independent of how anybody feels about the Steelers this year,
02:14this is still one of the gold standard organizations that people look at and say,
02:18they do everything right.
02:20They don't always really do everything right, but they're just considered that because of the Steelers.
02:24They have six Super Bowls.
02:25They're always in the playoffs, all these different things.
02:28And so, yes, beating them means more and carries a little bit more weight
02:32because I think everyone expects this Browns team is going to be in the basement of this division,
02:36that the Steelers had a chance to maybe at least be in the playoff picture
02:39because there always are, whether or not they're actually going to get there is to be determined.
02:43But, yeah, doing it against these teams in this division,
02:46doing it against one of the franchises that everybody looks at as kind of a trendsetter
02:50or a model franchise in the NFL certainly is going to carry a little bit more weight.
02:54And you get to 3-1, and then you start talking about, like, all these different possibilities.
02:58So, I think, yes, it's hard for me to not feel that, you know, and you get to 2-1.
03:06It's like you see how you won some of these games.
03:09Like, if you win this game, even if it's ugly, which I'm expecting it might be,
03:14you just feel like, okay, now you start to buy it a little bit more.
03:19Like, 2-2 is so different from 3-1.
03:223-1 is like...
03:22Massive difference.
03:23I think, what was it, I think Daniel Oyafusi put out, like, from ESPN stats
03:27that teams that start the season 3-1 have, like, a 65% chance of making the playoffs.
03:32Yeah, that was the number.
03:32So, it's like, now you're for real.
03:33You know what I mean?
03:34Like, that's what 3-1 feels like versus, like, 2-2 is like,
03:37okay, maybe you just kind of got lucky here in the early going,
03:39and we don't know if you're going to be able to sustain it.
03:41Well, and some of the luck part of this that you bring up kind of goes away
03:44because if you do it three weeks in a row, we just kind of shelve that.
03:47And the luck part, I mean, you know, Baker Mayfield not hitting a wide-open receiver
03:51to end that game.
03:52I'm talking about the Panthers.
03:54Well, and the Bucs are 0-3 now, so it's like, are they even that good?
03:57You know what I mean?
03:57Like, everyone's questioning that.
03:58Everyone's questioning the Panthers.
04:00Like, how legit were they?
04:00That is a part of this equation as well.
04:02Is that like, you know, because Jacksonville does look so good,
04:04and they blew us out of the water.
04:06You turn around, and it's like, well, the Bucs seem like they're unraveling right now.
04:09The Panthers with Bryce Young will never be a team that people bet on.
04:12And even within the Steelers team, we can talk about some of those same question marks.
04:16Like, you mentioned it.
04:17Yeah, they'll probably be around a 500 team somewhere around there
04:19because that's what the Steelers always are.
04:21But I don't know what Aaron Rodgers is.
04:23Aaron Rodgers was awesome last week.
04:24First two weeks of the season, he couldn't do anything.
04:27He couldn't throw a pass.
04:28One in a short week.
04:29Like, what's it going to look like?
04:30Are they just going to be the Jalen Warren show?
04:32I don't know what's going to happen with them,
04:34and they're just as much of a mystery as the Browns are,
04:37and I find that fascinating.
04:37Stephen A. on ESPN earlier today had this to say about Deshaun
04:41and the idea that this is huge tonight.
04:44You see the fans in Cleveland where they were expected to bull him
04:47because of how he misspoke about them,
04:49yet they were cheering him.
04:51And egging him on and encouraging him.
04:53And he responded to it like winners do.
04:56If that brother shows up and reminds us more of that tonight,
05:01we've got to keep our eyes.
05:03This might be one of, if not the best story in the NFL
05:08if this continues to elevate because this has come out of nowhere.
05:12We didn't expect this brother to be a quarterback in the league.
05:15We thought it was possible Shedore Sanders might beat him out of his job.
05:18And now here he's come.
05:19Here he comes.
05:20And he's winning football games and making plays and winning moments
05:24to produce those W's.
05:27Man, he does that tonight against the Steelers.
05:29And the Browns find themselves in first place, at least momentarily.
05:33That is the story in the NFL.
05:36I mean, it's definitely the story of the NFL.
05:37I don't know that it'll be perceived as the best story in the NFL
05:40the way that Stephen A puts it.
05:41That shit might have sailed for Deshaun Watson already.
05:44That's where I don't agree.
05:45Like, I get what he's saying, that it is sort of this shocking revelation
05:49all of a sudden if Deshaun Watson can play winning football.
05:52That it would be.
05:52Yeah, but I don't know that there's a lot of people who are –
05:56like, the way he framed that is like everyone's watching with bated breath
06:02over, oh, this quarterback, everything he's faced,
06:06and how tragic his story's been.
06:10And he's now back playing winning football.
06:13And he's a starting quarterback in this league again.
06:15We cast him aside and thought that he was never going to be able to do this again.
06:19And look how he's proving everybody wrong.
06:20But it's not that story.
06:22It's not that story at all.
06:23It's not a great comeback story.
06:24I'm sorry, guys.
06:26DeMar Hamlin dying on the field and coming back and playing football,
06:29that's a great comeback story.
06:30The Joe Flacco thing when he was here at 23, that was a great story.
06:33He was on the couch for like half the season,
06:34and then he comes in and he's taking this Browns team to the playoffs.
06:37Like, that's a feel-good story.
06:39This is not some feel-good story.
06:40It would be a story like, oh, wow, Deshaun proved a lot of people wrong
06:44and he's actually playing decent football.
06:46Like, okay, cool, good for him.
06:48But I think that's where it kind of stops, JP.
06:50Like, I don't think this becomes some like darling story now.
06:52And if it does, by the way,
06:54then I think there's going to be a lot of Browns fans who see right through that.
06:57The same way, I think one of the only things Todd Munkin, I think,
07:01has like annoyed fans with throughout this process is the way that he's kind of
07:05talked about Deshaun's journey where he's like, yeah, 22 months of hard work
07:09and I'm just so proud of the way he's come back out there amidst everything
07:12and he's had a lot going against him.
07:15That's like the one thing I think fans have kind of been annoyed with with Todd Munkin
07:18is like, okay, dude, like you don't have to shove this in our face
07:21and like act like it's some like real great comeback magical,
07:23like made for Disney story.
07:25I think for Browns fans though,
07:27and this is who we're predominantly talking to Browns fans.
07:30It'll be a comeback story in a way that maybe Stephen A,
07:32I just don't agree with nationally.
07:34Well, I think about it because at least Deshaun is giving Browns fans something.
07:38If you're playing winning football and you're actually getting wins
07:41and this team goes from a five and a half win projected team
07:43to then being eight, nine, 10 wins, whatever that number is,
07:46like at least you're getting some return off the Deshaun Watson experience.
07:51But like the national fan isn't getting any return.
07:53You're right about the return thing,
07:55but I just, I still think Browns fans like see right through this.
07:57I just wouldn't, I'd call it a comeback.
07:59I wouldn't call it a great comeback story.
08:00Yeah, yeah.
08:00I think Browns fans still largely see right through this though.
08:03Like I think they understand.
08:05And unless this season ends with like some magical run to the Super Bowl,
08:09this is probably the end of the Deshaun Watson thing.
08:11I don't know.
08:12And so they're, they're cheering because it's like,
08:15hey, we're finally getting the payoff.
08:17Like this, this is good.
08:18Like, yeah.
08:18Like, and that's why I said the other day with you,
08:20like it kind of did feel like a little,
08:23I don't want to say like tongue in cheek,
08:25but it kind of felt a little like,
08:28I guess that is the phrase tongue.
08:30It felt a little tongue in cheek,
08:31like the cheers for him.
08:32Cause it was kind of this,
08:33this moment for fans where it was,
08:35man, look,
08:36he finally did it.
08:37Like,
08:37we're so proud of him for actually coming through for once.
08:40Like that's kind of,
08:40there you go smugger.
08:41That's,
08:41that's kind of what it felt like in a way.
08:43I don't know that they're like fully now bought into the Deshaun
08:45Watson experience.
08:47Now again,
08:48tonight might change that,
08:49but I,
08:49I,
08:49I still think bronze fans largely see right through this story too.
08:52I mean,
08:52I have no idea how to cap where Browns fans are with Deshaun Watson.
08:55I think today goes a long way in whether or not Browns fans start to
08:58come over to Deshaun's side or not.
09:00Yeah.
09:00You beat the Steelers.
09:01That matters to Browns fans.
09:02What did James say when in his famous game,
09:04where he was like,
09:05you're not really a Brown,
09:06a member of the Cleveland Browns until you beat the Steelers.
09:09Yeah.
09:09Like it matters.
09:10And it matters to Browns fans in a way that Deshaun knows.
09:14That's why tonight's so huge for Deshaun trying to,
09:16get fans on his side and getting people to come over from what was the dark
09:20side to now,
09:20whatever his side is,
09:21which some would argue is still the dark side.
09:23But I,
09:24I can't measure Spencer.
09:26You're like,
09:26I think most fans see through that.
09:27I don't know.
09:28I,
09:29I've taken call after call after call,
09:31and it might just be a very loud minority.
09:33And maybe because they're on the outside of this and they're,
09:36they're trying to get anybody in their life to agree with them.
09:38They call into sports talk radio and they just tell us how much they like
09:42Deshaun Watson and how they,
09:43how in they are with Deshaun Watson as somebody that has not been in on
09:46Deshaun Watson and has spoken all sorts of negative things about Deshaun.
09:50I,
09:51I don't,
09:52I don't think people are on my side here.
09:54I don't think people are on your side here.
09:56I think the majority is on the side of the guy that's started the season two
09:59and one.
10:00Did you get those calls the last two days?
10:02Cause I feel like when I was with you on Monday,
10:03I felt like a lot of the calls were like,
10:06yeah,
10:06you know,
10:07good for Deshaun.
10:08And we're just glad we're winning.
10:09Monday was a bounce back towards our direction.
10:12Let's call it our direction.
10:13Okay.
10:14Last week is more when I'm speaking to that Wednesday and Thursday,
10:17I've never taken more of an onslaught of phone calls that were one after
10:21the other.
10:21I,
10:22maybe I'm wrong,
10:23but I know I left that show wondering if,
10:26if there has been some sort of like instructive hit by somebody to just,
10:30just rig our phone lines with so many Deshaun Watson supporters,
10:34because it didn't make sense.
10:35And it also didn't make sense on how Friday they all kind of disappeared
10:38before the weekend.
10:39It that like,
10:39I'm telling you something weird was happening.
10:41Something weird was happening.
10:42I hope you're right.
10:44I hope people see,
10:45as I said earlier,
10:46if your takeaway after that game on Sunday was anything,
10:49but Deshaun Watson has played.
10:52Okay.
10:53Then like,
10:54then like,
10:55I can't help you.
10:55I can't help you.
10:56If your takeaway in that game was Deshaun Watson was awesome at football.
10:59I'm never going to be able to help you.
11:01But,
11:01but like the reality is,
11:03is that if you win games,
11:04he's going to give himself enough time to find out.
11:07And that's what he's currently done.
11:08I mean,
11:08my sense on Monday was like a lot of the callers kind of,
11:10again,
11:11understood the assignment here where it's like,
11:13yeah,
11:13we were glad that he's winning.
11:15We're glad that the Browns are winning.
11:16I think that came from a blowback from all the people that were telling you.
11:20Maybe.
11:20Yeah.
11:20Because I think about it.
11:21Hey,
11:21JP,
11:22no one wanted to do the five more years chant with me on Monday.
11:24So I,
11:24I'm just saying like,
11:25nobody was in on that.
11:26I think that would maybe that again,
11:28maybe that changes after tonight if they win.
11:30But I,
11:31that,
11:31that to me is a testament that like people still kind of understand here.
11:34Like,
11:35yeah,
11:35we don't,
11:35we don't like love this guy.
11:37We still don't like accept this guy.
11:39We're just glad that he's finally playing football.
11:41That's allowing us to have an enjoyable season so far.
11:43Yeah.
11:44I mean,
11:44it's just interesting.
11:45And it's interesting what tonight is going to be able to do for Deshaun Watson and
11:47getting people either on his side or people coming over to the other idea that he's been a very,
11:51you know,
11:52average quarterback so far,
11:53and he's got to be better in the first three quarters.
11:55He can't just be a fourth quarter hero.
11:57Cause that's not,
11:58that's not something you can rely on.
11:59Like it just isn't.
12:01I get it.
12:02There are certain quarterbacks that can do that in certain quarterbacks that can't Joe Burrow.
12:06And that stats been passed around all week long about him being one in 34 with a lead with
12:11eight where trailing with eight minutes left in the game.
12:13Not clutch.
12:14Well,
12:14have you looked up some of the other quarterbacks in that stat?
12:16Patrick Mahomes is 17 of those numbers in the positive.
12:20Lamar Jackson's got 10 help.
12:21Why do I feel like he's,
12:22he's had a couple of comebacks against the bills.
12:24Patrick Mahomes has seven of those games when he only has 13 seconds or less on the
12:30clock in order and trailing.
12:31Like I,
12:31like he,
12:32like it works for some people and for other people,
12:35it just doesn't.
12:36Clearly that's a part of this.
12:37If you want to tell me that Deshaun is just this magical fourth quarter quarterback,
12:40maybe he falls in that same bucket as my homes and Lamar.
12:43But as of right now,
12:44I don't put them in the same bucket as my homes and Lamar and anything in life.
12:46Yeah.
12:47And,
12:48and I don't know,
12:49like that is kind of a,
12:50we've talked so much about what can,
12:52what is salvageable of Deshaun from 2020 when he led the league in passing,
12:56right?
12:57Like maybe the thing that's salvageable in this is that he's still just going to be nails in the fourth
13:00quarter.
13:01Cause he was nails in the fourth quarter back then.
13:03That was,
13:03that was the big thing when he got here.
13:04You talked about it.
13:05I remember working some of those night shows with you where you talked about your friends in Houston who said,
13:09yeah,
13:10you know,
13:11Deshaun was always kind of like iffy.
13:14And then in the fourth quarter,
13:15he would just like go bonkers.
13:16And that's where his numbers kind of got inflated,
13:17whether it was like a blowout game and it was just,
13:19you know,
13:20garbage time or whether it was just like he was leading his team on a comeback.
13:23So maybe that's the thing that's salvageable.
13:25I don't know.
13:26But I still feel like,
13:27and then that's where I think like,
13:29there's been a lot of commentary on social media this week about Browns fan,
13:33like jokes made at the Browns fans expensive,
13:35like Browns fans,
13:36the second Deshaun Watson plays remotely good football.
13:38And it's like,
13:38they're making fun of the Browns for all of a sudden,
13:40just like worshiping Deshaun.
13:41I don't get the sense that anybody's like worshiping Deshaun.
13:44I think it's just like a cordial.
13:46Finally,
13:46you're doing this.
13:47We're excited because we're two and one.
13:49And again,
13:50maybe they get to three and one to beat the Steelers.
13:51And then there's this euphoria tomorrow where all the colors are chanting five more years.
13:55But I don't know that we're there yet.
13:56I think more people have given him a chance than I would have suspected initially.
14:00And that's why tonight matters so much,
14:02because if you go three and one,
14:03if let's say 50,
14:0550% of the people could still be gotten to,
14:07and they're on the fence,
14:09if you win against the Steelers,
14:12they're converts now.
14:13Like,
14:13like it's only going to,
14:14it's only going to start to ramp up for Deshaun with each win.
14:17And with each time you take this Browns team seriously,
14:20especially at a national stage,
14:21especially against the Steelers,
14:23it's just,
14:23he's going to get more and more people,
14:25but he's got to do it.
14:26Obviously like you can't,
14:27you can't lay a stinker tonight and then come back tomorrow and tell everyone to still love you.
14:31That's not how this works.
14:32This is,
14:32this is very much a conditional relationship between Browns fans and Deshaun Watson.
14:36You have to live up to your end of the bargain.
14:38And if you don't,
14:39we're not,
14:39we're going to turn on you.
14:40And then we're going to go back to saying what the hell is going on here.
14:42This is going to happen here.