- 16 hours ago
John and Andrew discuss the development of dominionism within Pentecostal circles, tracing its connections to the Latter Rain movement, Joel's Army, Manifested Sons of God theology, British Israelism, and the New Apostolic Reformation. Andrew reflects on his upbringing in the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada and explains how biblical promises, militant language, and teachings about spiritual authority were presented in his experience.
They examine how proof texts, claims of anointing, signs and wonders, healing teachings, and "full gospel" language can shift attention toward personal power and influential leaders. Their conversation emphasizes reading biblical passages in context, evaluating doctrine carefully, questioning unsafe leadership, and grounding Christian faith in Jesus, love, and the gospel rather than power, control, or extraordinary experiences.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction
03:25 Correcting the Latter Rain History
09:27 Dominionism and Its Latter Rain Roots
17:09 Spiritual Dominion, Revival, and Militant Language
23:37 The Full Gospel, Covenants, and Conquest
28:41 Applying Israel’s Promises to Modern Christians
35:38 The Anointing, Spiritual Power, and Control
42:42 Defending Leaders vs. Defending Biblical Truth
49:08 Decree, Declare, and Faith in Faith
______________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg
– Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham
– Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr
– Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books
They examine how proof texts, claims of anointing, signs and wonders, healing teachings, and "full gospel" language can shift attention toward personal power and influential leaders. Their conversation emphasizes reading biblical passages in context, evaluating doctrine carefully, questioning unsafe leadership, and grounding Christian faith in Jesus, love, and the gospel rather than power, control, or extraordinary experiences.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction
03:25 Correcting the Latter Rain History
09:27 Dominionism and Its Latter Rain Roots
17:09 Spiritual Dominion, Revival, and Militant Language
23:37 The Full Gospel, Covenants, and Conquest
28:41 Applying Israel’s Promises to Modern Christians
35:38 The Anointing, Spiritual Power, and Control
42:42 Defending Leaders vs. Defending Biblical Truth
49:08 Decree, Declare, and Faith in Faith
______________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg
– Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham
– Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr
– Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books
Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:31Hello, and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast.
00:35I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research
00:40at william-branham.org, and with me I have my very special guest, Andrew Martin, Pentecostal
00:46extraordinaire.
00:47Andrew, I didn't know how else to introduce you.
00:50I have a few Pentecostal friends, and they're really, really good friends.
00:55We don't see eye-to-eye theologically, but they're in a good place with their heart,
01:01and they recognize the same with me, and we have really, really good conversations.
01:06The funny part is, I've not had a whole lot of people who were of that mindset on the
01:10podcast, but I did have you, and it got some really positive feedback.
01:15I don't know if you saw it or not, but people were really enjoying what they heard.
01:20So, very glad to have you back.
01:22Well, thank you.
01:24Yeah, I would not say that I am a, I'm not a complete Pentecostal guru or anything like
01:36that.
01:36I just have grown up in the PAOC in Canada.
01:39My whole life, still a part of it.
01:43Asked to preach.
01:44I lead worship on the music on Sunday mornings at my local congregation.
01:50I just speak from my experience.
01:52Well, it's good to speak from experience because you know what you're talking about.
01:56Sometimes I dive into a lot of areas that I really don't yet know what I'm talking about,
02:02but I want to get there.
02:03And so, my philosophy has always been to invite people to the podcast who can share their information,
02:10and I look at it like this big scattering of puzzle pieces.
02:13And as opposed to some of my peers who avoid bringing the other side on, I really enjoy it
02:21because who better to go to the puzzle pieces than the people who are involved with it?
02:25And you get a much clearer picture of the puzzle.
02:28There was a book written by, I think it was Eusebius, if I'm remembering correctly, but
02:34it was talking about the Jews and the antiquities and said something to the effect, and I'm paraphrasing
02:40greatly, the Jews, the history that we have of the Jews is not quite correct, and it doesn't
02:46match what we have in our records.
02:48However, if you look at the Jewish people and you want to know about them, who better to
02:53go to than the Jewish people?
02:55And what I was referring to, there were a lot of records lost during the Babylonian invasion,
03:01et cetera.
03:01So, you didn't really have all of the history intact, but who better to go to than the people
03:07who have it?
03:07So, I'm very glad to have you back, and as I understand it, you're wanting to talk about
03:11dominionism, but from a, I'm guessing, from a non-New Apostolic Reformation perspective,
03:18which is something I have actually really wanted to talk about with somebody.
03:22So, I'm really, really glad you came on to do this.
03:25Yeah, before we get into that, I just wanted to clear the air on a couple things.
03:31Last time I was on, we talked about my experiences with the New Order of the Ladder Rain and my
03:41connections where I grew up and my family with Myrtle Beale.
03:44And just a couple details is that I had said last time that she went north to Saskatchewan
03:52where George Houghton had started stuff up and have since found out that she actually
04:00was headed to British Columbia, and it was Reg Lazell who was having meetings up there.
04:09And he had invited George Houghton to speak at his meetings, and I haven't been able to
04:14find out whether he was actually there when Myrtle Beale was or what the connection there
04:20is for sure.
04:21But there is a connection there, just not as, possibly not as close as I thought it had
04:28been, and the first, I wanted to clear that up.
04:31And then also that realizing she had started stuff where she was at her Bethesda mission.
04:40She had plans already in progress to see things happening there before she went to British
04:48Columbia.
04:50And then that just made me think, is it something similar to when Azusa Street started up in
04:58California and in Toronto around the same time, there was the Hebden mission, and they were
05:04experiencing similar things and had a connection and people went back and forth.
05:09And eventually in Canada, or at least in Toronto, the Hebden mission became synonymous with Azusa
05:15Street.
05:17So I'm wondering if that is something similar that happened with Myrtle Beale and George
05:21Houghton and Reg Lazell and that whole movement that started that became the latter rain.
05:26And then again, finding out that, I think it was you who said that Myrtle Beale had given
05:34a lot of prophecies to people, but one specific was to George, or not George, Jim Jones.
05:41And if somebody who could prophesy over Jim Jones is the same person who prophesied over
05:48my founding pastors and my family members, then where do you go with that information?
05:55And how do you make sense?
05:57Is it from God?
05:58Is it something that you need to put credence in?
06:01Or is it something you just take like, okay, this happened, and now where do we go from
06:06here?
06:06Yeah, absolutely.
06:07The thing of it is, I have learned just from human personalities that when two humans are
06:13fully aligned, and on doctrine and scripture, they're walking together, and then suddenly
06:19they hit a conflict in doctrine and scripture.
06:22If the conflict is bad enough that they part ways never to return, they will often forget
06:28about the part where they were hand in hand.
06:30And that's really what has happened in this movement.
06:32You've got all of these people who are at these conventions and meetings and all joining
06:37together because this latter rain thing was spread all throughout the United States and
06:40Canada.
06:41These people were fully walking in one accord, they thought, and then suddenly there's the
06:46biggest division in Pentecostal history.
06:49You had those who stuck with the latter rain and those who denounced it.
06:52That created the schism that no longer are these two people in alignment scripturally.
06:58And they don't really want to talk about the parts where they were.
07:02And that's really, the funny part about it is that's the area that I want to be in because
07:06it shows all the connections and how the doctrines cross-pollinated.
07:10Going from with that, like how it cross-pollinated and continued on, like the PAOC, I mentioned last
07:18time, formally denounced the latter rain movement.
07:22They went along with the same kind of framework that the Assemblies of God had in the United
07:27States.
07:28And that, but the way the PAOC is formed as a fellowship, not as a strict denomination
07:36allows a lot more autonomy in local congregations and local pastors to be able to fellowship with
07:47one another under that Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada label, but still be able to bring
07:52in who they want, preach what they want, as long as at least publicly they're willing
07:57to say the, we adhere to these core set of beliefs or doctrines.
08:03So that's, and my church that I grew up in, or the congregation, like the whole time, they
08:09just publicly, openly claimed to be a latter rain movement.
08:13And like the last time, it wasn't until later on that they actually joined the PAOC.
08:20But like all that to say, I was brought up in it.
08:25I have experienced all the Pentecostal things that you can probably think of.
08:33Like I've spoken in tongues, I've been slain in the spirit or falling out or however you want
08:40to say it, like I've had those experiences.
08:43I was a young teenager or preteen during the Toronto Blessing and visited there.
08:51I'm predisposed to believe all the stuff that is going on, all the stuff that's happening.
08:59And I'm still finding myself at this stage in my life, in my forties, coming back and wanting
09:06to look at what the Bible says, what is true, and how do I reconcile the history of things
09:14that have happened, positions that people or groups have held, and try to make sense of
09:21it from a biblical understanding, not just going along with it, because that's what I've
09:25heard my whole life.
09:26Yeah, and that's really what interests me about this particular subject.
09:30So we're talking about dominionism.
09:32Whenever I go back through the theologies that the people were introducing into the
09:37movement, you can tie those directly to some of the New Apostolic Reformation structures
09:43that exist today.
09:44New Apostolic Reformation really isn't anything new, in my opinion.
09:47They've just rebranded what was Latter Reign and some of the core concepts before the
09:52split happened.
09:54And some of the early concepts was like Joel's Army.
09:57So if you go to IHOPKC, you're looking at Joel's Army, Manifested Sons of God.
10:01Well, all of that came directly from Latter Reign.
10:04So you had a group of people who, before the split happened, they were starting to get
10:09so supercharged with their theology that they thought they were going to conquer the world
10:14in Jesus' name, and then Jesus would return.
10:16And that's how the Joel's Army, Manifested Sons of God, began to take shape.
10:22Now, not everybody adopted that, but there were people that were proposing that.
10:26And if you follow that out to its logical conclusion, you end up with dominionism.
10:32And that's really what I think a lot of people miss, because when you think dominionism and
10:37you look at the news, you think this is a relatively new thing, this new Apostolic Reformation
10:41thing.
10:42But it's not, really.
10:43It goes all the way back to 1947.
10:45When I've heard about it, or heard sermons, or heard it preached on, those terms are familiar.
10:54Joel's Army and all of that, it's all wording and stuff like that, loaded language that is
11:01so familiar to me.
11:02But the way that it's been presented to me isn't quite, it doesn't seem to be quite the
11:08same as what a lot of people that I've heard on the podcast and in other places have understood
11:15it to be.
11:16So that's why I wanted to talk about it.
11:18And it kind of starts with this use of that loaded language and how a lot of people will,
11:26in their sermons, front load the message with proof texts and truths from the Bible and
11:34present that up front before throwing out a fundamental, I don't know how to say it, like
11:41a takeaway of a truth or something they want you to get that isn't from the Bible.
11:48It's something that they fabricated or they've come up with from those proof texts.
11:52It's, like, I can think of a few, like, that's just kingdom principles, or you need to have
12:01provision for the vision, touch not God's anointed.
12:06A big one that's going around right now where I am is expectancy is the breeding ground for
12:12miracles, or faith will never explore what we don't see as possible.
12:17And all of these things, all of these sayings is kind of just like a word salad.
12:25They're saying things after presenting truth from the Bible that don't make full sense and
12:33don't completely tie into what the text that they're trying to use or reference.
12:38And it's usually followed with some type of follow-up to the congregation if it's, like,
12:46trying to get validation, like saying amen or hallelujah to their own sayings or asking people, like,
12:54well, does that make sense to you?
12:55And wanting that validation, if they're not doing that, it's usually the opposite of condemning the
13:03congregation saying, like, well, that was an underwhelming response.
13:07I'll try it over here with this group.
13:10And that manipulation of the crowd trying to get you on board and kind of run past quickly that
13:18thing that they threw in that just isn't quite right.
13:22I don't know if you saw it from the 90s, but the Batman movie from the 90s is still my
13:27favorite Batman.
13:27And Joker, he plagues Gotham City with all of these cosmetic products, and you've got the
13:34lipstick and the hairspray and different components.
13:36But if you put the components together, it turned into this acidic thing that changed people
13:42into Joker face.
13:43And so it wasn't just the hairspray.
13:45You had to have the hairspray and the makeup, whatever it was.
13:48I look at it much like that.
13:50There are so many doctrines that are benign, but whenever you take one doctrine that's just
13:54slightly off the mark, combine it with another one that's just slightly off the mark, you
13:59get this thing that's going to turn you into, not Joker face, but into this, I don't know,
14:04this new apostolic theme that has developed that can be destructive.
14:09I think that's how I'll say it.
14:11I got into a lot of trouble when I first started studying John Wimber.
14:16And I published the John Wimber page.
14:18I was talking about kingdom theology.
14:20I read it, reading it from all of the components, not just the components that he was bringing
14:26in.
14:27So when he's talking about the kingdom, he's definitely not talking about the kingdom in
14:30the same way some of the new apostolic reformation people are.
14:34But I'm looking at it from a lower level of how all the components work together, and I
14:39see nothing but the same thing.
14:41So when I wrote the page out, I got people just, I got all kinds of hate mail.
14:45They said, no, Wimber wasn't like this, but if you really understand where that developed
14:51from and how it developed into this weird mess that we have today, you start to be scared
14:57of it.
14:57In Gotham City, the people would just throw out the hairspray, even though it took both
15:01components to mess your face up.
15:03They're not going to use the hairspray anymore.
15:04They'd throw it out.
15:06And I'm kind of that way.
15:07If it's not something, if you have a doctrine that you can't fully prove by the Bible, in
15:12other words, it's the Bible doctrine and something else.
15:15Why would you want the something else?
15:17That's the question that I have.
15:19And when you think of the simple gospel, it's not a gospel of emotions and doing the stuff
15:25as was presented.
15:26It's a gospel where you're loving one another and Jesus will come because we're good people,
15:30not because we're coming out to conquer.
15:32So when you have all these components that end up into an actual army of conquerors, as
15:39Mike Bickle, some of the former IHOP KC people put it, Mike Bickle was saying things like
15:45there will be actual bloodshed.
15:46And it's going to be, they were talking like he was going to enjoy the bloodshed.
15:50When you get to that level of mindset, how can you pair that with Jesus saying love your
15:55neighbor as yourself?
15:56And what you just said there before, and you're saying, why would you want the extra bits kind
16:02of thing that I heard, I think you were talking with Brantley on one podcast where you came
16:10to that saying of chew the meat and spit out the bones.
16:14And I've heard that my whole life.
16:17You just got to chew the meat and spit out the bones, take what's good, you know, just
16:22ignore the stuff that doesn't quite fit because there's good stuff in there.
16:26Or I've heard people talk about Mike Bickle or people from IHOP KC saying, you know, it's
16:34the hamburger helper.
16:35It just enhances it.
16:38If you want the truth of the gospel, if you want the truth of what the Bible says, you don't
16:45need to add that extra stuff.
16:47And like you said with Wimber and how a lot of the NAR stuff about the kingdom, like it
16:56seems like it's all one in the same, because taken to its logical conclusion, that's where
17:02it ends up.
17:03And yeah, he might not have completely held the same ideas, but that's where you get to.
17:08And that's kind of where I'm coming at this idea on dominionism from.
17:13I never heard it presented to me in the circles that I was in as a physical dominion, like not
17:22a literal army that's raising up and not going to be literal bloodshed, but a spiritual dominion
17:30and a spiritual army.
17:31And that leading into the end times preparation for revivals or like there's going to be mass
17:41revivals.
17:43There's one guy I'm thinking of specifically for 50 years, he's been talking about a massive
17:50Canada wide revival.
17:52And he's giving his life to that because of what he, a vision he had when he was at a
17:58Catherine Kuhlman meeting, and I'm all for revival.
18:01I'm all for people coming to know Jesus.
18:05But when you draw it out and when you take it to its conclusion, like the thought process,
18:11it can easily get to that physical army, that physical dominion that you're seeking control
18:18and power.
18:19And a lot of these guys, they don't seem to recognize that.
18:23Well, the problem is, from my understanding of how it works psychologically, people begin
18:30to disassociate whenever you start talking in non-physical terms.
18:35So we're talking about these things that are happening in the spiritual and you have to
18:39believe it, even though it's not fully described in the Bible.
18:42You're going a little bit beyond the Bible and you're having to pretend like they're picturing
18:47it.
18:47Well, you start to disassociate from reality.
18:49The problem is, when you're disassociating to a militant form of a fictional reality or
18:55a – fictional is probably the wrong word because there are people that truly believe
19:00it is their Christian concept.
19:02But when you're believing in something that can't be proven by the Bible, I'll say it like
19:06that, and you disassociate and it's militant, there are people that will go the militant
19:11direction.
19:11They're just not capable of reeling themselves back in.
19:15And so you start to spiral out of control, and I think – I truly believe, and it's
19:19my opinion – people can take it or leave it – I think that is why it developed into
19:23the actual physical army concept.
19:25I think people were disassociating.
19:27Yes, it's militant.
19:29Branham used militant language all through his sermons.
19:31I grew up with it.
19:32When we were children, we would walk down the aisles to Sunday school singing, Onward Christian
19:39soldiers were marching as to war.
19:41So you got this war concept as – even from an early childhood age, well, there are people
19:46that spun out of control, and they went kind of nuts with this.
19:49So I think there's a heavy psychological problem, but when you go to the root of it,
19:54it is a theological problem.
19:56They're not grounded in simply saying what the Scripture says.
19:59They want the hamburger helper.
20:01And I've had the real and I've had the hamburger helper, and I've got to say, I like the real
20:06stuff a lot better.
20:07You said that song – I grew up singing that song in Sunday school and in church, and I
20:14always kind of was able to dismiss that idea of – or the ideology of dominionism as being
20:20a negative thing because it was always couched as having a concern for nonbelievers to come
20:29to Christ.
20:30It's couched in a way and presented in a way that is saying people need God, they need
20:37Jesus, they need to know Jesus, and we need to be able to share the gospel with them.
20:42And I believe that.
20:44That's a good thing.
20:45But because of how it gets presented in that way, then it's taking the ideas of those encompassing
20:56ideologies from proof texts that are out of context from the Bible, and then, like we
21:04said, like twisting it to become something that the Bible isn't quite saying.
21:10So, the couple examples would be like the Lord's Prayer, even, your kingdom come, your will
21:16be done on earth as it is in heaven.
21:18And if your kingdom needs to come on earth as it is in heaven, then we need to be doing
21:25stuff to see – to make that a reality, to make your kingdom come.
21:29Whether it is in that literal, physical sense of an army and establishing a kingdom and having
21:36dominion in the seven mountains, or if it's that more spiritual aspect of, we just need
21:43to see revival happen and see people come to Christ.
21:46But it's all connected there.
21:48And even the Great Commission, like when Jesus said, go and make disciples of every nation,
21:53than that being taken to say, see, that's a call for everybody to – like, we need to
21:59go out – like, Canada needs to be a Christian nation and disciple other nations.
22:06But is that what it's really talking about?
22:09Or is it talking about individuals knowing who Christ is, and individuals from every nation
22:17having the chance, the ability, the opportunity to know Jesus personally?
22:23In a relationship as their savior.
22:25Again, it's that proof texting, that taking things, and then using their loaded language
22:32to twist it in a way that presents the dominionist ideas or ideals, but then not present the gospel
22:41like clearly and accurately.
22:44It makes me think of, in the Pentecostal circles I grew up in, there's a term called the full gospel.
22:49I don't know if you've heard that, but this idea that the gospel is not complete, just talking about Jesus.
22:57You need to have the power of the Holy Spirit present and seen through these miracles and gifts and signs
23:06and wonders.
23:06And if you're not seeing that, then you're missing out on the fullness of the gospel.
23:11And divine healing is incorporated into that.
23:15And it's all a mess of stuff that gets twisted into this push of, we need to see the kingdom
23:24come now.
23:25We need to be a part of making the kingdom come on earth as it's supposed to be in heaven
23:30or will be in heaven.
23:31And it's just twisted in a way I don't see that when I read the Bible, when I read the
23:37text for myself.
23:38There's so much to unpack in what you just said.
23:41I actually think you and I might have to come back a third time.
23:45So when Jim Jones, you mentioned Jones earlier, when Jim Jones left the Methodist church,
23:50he left because it was during the height of the Lateran movement.
23:53And you could clearly tell a Lateran Pentecostal church from a non-Lateran Pentecostal church
23:58because in their advertisements in the newspapers, they had full gospel.
24:03And what this meant to the full gospel Pentecostal churches of that era,
24:07F.F. Bosworth and others had taken the idea that healing was in the atonement
24:12and then flipped that on its head and said, how do you know you're saved?
24:16Well, you're saved if you can be healed.
24:18So they combined the two.
24:19So salvation and healing were one and the same.
24:21And Branham would say things like, how can I teach them algebra when they don't even know their ABCs,
24:27meaning we need a gospel that's more full and complete than the church down the street.
24:32So we have something that's greater than the gospel.
24:35And any time you think that you have something greater than the gospel, it isn't the gospel.
24:39It's something else.
24:41You know, there's something added.
24:42And it comes down to this problem, which you just hinted at.
24:47I'm going to go there with you and see if you follow me.
24:50Whenever this was spreading, it was spread by a lot of people who did read their Bibles,
24:56but didn't fully understand their Bibles or the covenants.
25:00And I was of that mindset.
25:02When I left, I was 37 years into this cult.
25:06I left and I was a little surprised when I started going to a church that was actually teaching Sunday
25:12school
25:13and teaching all of the stuff in the Bible, not just the parts that sounded good to the religion.
25:19And I'm learning, well, wait a minute, the old covenant and the new covenant
25:23and understanding what all of this meant, what the Mosaic law was, how it was applied,
25:28why the blessings to Israel, why the curses came,
25:32why the prophets came to say this thing will happen to you into the future
25:36because you failed the law in this one aspect, and this is the curse that I promised you.
25:41So the prophets weren't fortune tellers.
25:43None of the Bible really read the same way as it was taught to me for 37 years.
25:49Here's the problem.
25:50In the Mosaic law, in the old covenant,
25:54there were provisions for Israel's conquest of land as they were going to their new territory.
26:00And there would be things in the Old Testament like possess the land or occupy.
26:05And there were militant words in it because it was a militant type operation in some circumstances.
26:12You can read the Old Testament and you can find where there are provisions.
26:15If you go into a territory, you even, in some cases, you even got some of the wives.
26:20It was, that was how the verbiage is.
26:23I grew up with sermons where they would have a position on something modern
26:28and they would start with an Old Testament passage
26:32and they would just read two or three verses about this militant thing
26:36and then they would talk about the common politics of today.
26:39Well, in your mind, you're linking those things together
26:42and you're basically taking people out of the new covenant, into the old covenant,
26:48but specifically choosing the ones that are going to supercharge you
26:52against whatever is the agenda of the preacher.
26:56That may be all well and good because you're reading the Bible to do it,
26:59but you're kind of twisting what the Bible is saying to the heads of the people,
27:03especially those who don't really understand the covenants and understand that history.
27:09I didn't understand that history, so I was filled with all of this militantly charged nonsense.
27:15And what's funny is when I talk to my peers who were in the movement,
27:19who are still kind of beholden to the movement, they'll say,
27:23well, it wasn't like that.
27:24We didn't have anything militant.
27:26But they never made that connection in their brain between,
27:29well, wait a minute, he's reading a very, very militant verse from the Old Testament
27:33and he's given us this modern concept that we're supposed to link it.
27:36How else do you read that?
27:38Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started
27:42or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign,
27:47charismatic, and other fringe movements into the New Apostolic Reformation?
27:52You can learn this and more on William Branham Historical Research's website,
27:57william-branham.org.
27:59On the books page of the website,
28:01you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery,
28:07John McKinnon, and others,
28:09with links to the paper, audio, and digital versions of each book.
28:13You can also find resources and documentation
28:16on various people and topics related to those movements.
28:20If you want to contribute to the cause,
28:22you can support the podcast by clicking the Contribute button at the top.
28:26And as always, be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version
28:31that you're listening to or watching.
28:33On behalf of William Branham Historical Research,
28:36we want to thank you for your support.
28:38My experience, it's kind of similar,
28:41yet different in a way because
28:43I was taught to take those kind of passages
28:48and the Old Covenant examples
28:50from the Mosaic on what Israel was meant to do
28:54coming into the Promised Land
28:56and the conquest that they were meant to take
29:00over the nations that were there.
29:02But it was always under the umbrella of
29:05as believers in the New Covenant,
29:09like using kind of verses like Galatians 4,
29:13I think it's 6 and 7,
29:15where it talks about us being adopted as heirs
29:19when we believe in Jesus as our Savior.
29:22And because we're heirs in this family of God,
29:27we're co-heirs with Christ,
29:29we are taking on the identity
29:33of what Israel was meant to be in the Old Testament
29:37and in the Old Covenant.
29:39But we are now, in a sense, Israel for today.
29:43And when we're Israel for today,
29:47when we are co-heirs with Christ,
29:50then we're able to claim the promises
29:54that were made to Israel for ourselves,
29:56no matter where they are in the Bible,
29:59no matter what the context was
30:01or what Israel was going through
30:03at the moment that that promise was spoken to them.
30:05Like, Jeremiah 29, 11 is a really popular one.
30:10I even have a plaque of it on my wall of,
30:13you know, I know the plans I have for you,
30:15declares the Lord.
30:16Plans to prosper you, not to harm you.
30:18Plans to give you a hope and a future.
30:21And that's a great and encouraging word,
30:24but it was written to Israel
30:26while they were in exile,
30:28encouraging them to take roots
30:31and live their lives while they were there
30:34because the fulfillment of God's promise
30:37was that there was a certain time
30:39they would be in exile before he brought them back.
30:42So while you're there, do what you need to do.
30:45He has plans for you.
30:46But then taking that kind of idea
30:48and applying it to anyone today saying,
30:52well, you can take any promise
30:54that was made to Israel
30:55and apply it to you
30:56because you are, in a sense, Israel,
30:59because you've been adopted as an heir
31:02when you know Jesus as your savior.
31:05And you can take different things,
31:07like even Psalm 72 is a big one
31:11about having dominion from sea to sea.
31:14And if you read through that,
31:16like that was a verse that was used
31:18in the Constitution of Canada.
31:20And it's been a prophetic word
31:22in the circles that I've been raised up
31:24for Canada my whole life
31:26because we have the Pacific Coast
31:29and the Atlantic Coast.
31:30We have the St. Lawrence Seaway
31:32and Hudson's Bay,
31:34like north to south, east to west.
31:38The verbiage looks like it can apply
31:40directly to us as a nation.
31:42And then taking that and saying,
31:46well, that is proof
31:47that Canada is going to have revival.
31:50Canada is going to be a Christian nation.
31:54But it's not about us having dominion.
31:57It's about God having dominion.
31:59And it's about recognizing his place,
32:02his authority over his creation, right?
32:05It's not something that has to be twisted
32:09in a way that you make apply to yourself
32:12when it's not even about you.
32:14And just that going back to that idea
32:16of like being able to claim these promises
32:19and all stuff,
32:21it makes me think
32:22if you take it to its logical conclusion,
32:24you get into this idea
32:26of almost British Israelism,
32:29of like we are Israel.
32:30We are God's chosen.
32:33And anything that the Bible says
32:35is a promise to the people of Israel is ours.
32:38And you take that to the extreme.
32:40Like you said,
32:41it can be twisted
32:42to become that physical dominant dominionism
32:46that is again,
32:48that twisting of the militaristic language
32:51to try to make it apply to something
32:53that it doesn't actually apply to.
32:55I was actually heading in that same direction.
32:58So when British Israelism
33:00spread into the United States and Canada,
33:02and for those who are unaware
33:03what this is,
33:04the people of the British Isles,
33:07there was a growing movement
33:08that believed that they were
33:10the descendants of the lost
33:1110 tribes of Israel.
33:12And as it spread into the United States,
33:15obviously the people of the United States
33:17said,
33:17well, we're grafted into this too.
33:19So the United States and Canada
33:20became Ephraim,
33:23if I remember correctly.
33:24They separated the tribes
33:25that they were to be descendants from.
33:28Well,
33:29one of the strongest adherents to this
33:31was C.A.L. Totten,
33:32who was a military instructor.
33:35And he has written,
33:37actually had written
33:37a very popular war game book
33:40that still was used for strategy
33:43during that era.
33:44His books and his language
33:46were used as instruction material
33:49in Frank Sanford's cult in Maine.
33:52Charles Fox Parham,
33:53as you know,
33:53went to Frank Sanford's cult
33:55and John Dowie's cult.
33:56So he's being trained
33:58with the British Israel concept,
34:00and it's being taught
34:02in the militant way.
34:03So as this is entering
34:04into Pentecostalism,
34:06it's being entered into Pentecostalism
34:08in the militant way.
34:10Now,
34:10fast forward through the years,
34:12many Pentecostals decided
34:14that they don't believe
34:15British Israelism.
34:16But by the time
34:17that they abandoned
34:18that notion,
34:19they had already created
34:21all this building blocks
34:22of theology.
34:23And so there were
34:24many Pentecostals
34:25who were teaching,
34:26much like I described,
34:27this blessing for Israel
34:28is also a blessing for us.
34:30And so,
34:32I grew up in circles,
34:33for example,
34:34who would never agree
34:35British Israelism at all,
34:37but they would read
34:38an Old Covenant passage
34:39thinking that it applied
34:40to a modern time
34:41or a modern political issue.
34:44So we were taught
34:45to read the Bible
34:46as though every passage
34:48was written both to Israel
34:50and to us,
34:51especially from the Old Testament.
34:53When you do this
34:55and you read those militant verses
34:57that are literally talking
34:58about wars
34:59and conquering of nations
35:01as they're making their way
35:02into their territory,
35:03there's no other way
35:05to take it
35:05but a military way.
35:07And so,
35:08the problem,
35:09as we fast forward
35:10into the New Apostolic Reformation
35:12years,
35:13the problem is
35:14that that foundation
35:15of theology did exist.
35:17And so,
35:17it was very compatible
35:18with people
35:19who weren't even
35:20in the New Apostolic Reformation.
35:23That's why
35:23this interests me so much
35:25because you can,
35:26like you said,
35:27you can read
35:27that militant language
35:28all throughout
35:29some of the writings
35:30of people
35:31that you would never
35:32even consider
35:32connected to Nahr.
35:34But it's because
35:35of the way
35:35that they built
35:36those building blocks
35:37of theology.
35:38Yeah.
35:38the way
35:40that what
35:41I would consider
35:41the heroes
35:43of the faith
35:43at least
35:44from the 17th century
35:47onward,
35:47the more I look
35:48into what they taught
35:50and what they preached
35:52about,
35:53the more I'm learning
35:54like so many
35:55of them
35:56had that kind
35:57of or similar
35:58foundation.
35:59And like I said,
36:00how it's been presented
36:02it can switch
36:04or not quite
36:05go as far.
36:06and it wasn't
36:07taken that far
36:08where the people
36:10I heard used it.
36:12But it can be.
36:13It can be taken
36:15to the extremes.
36:16And I'm just starting
36:18to recognize that,
36:19like what I've grown
36:22up hearing,
36:23what I've grown
36:24up being taught
36:25and even stuff
36:26that I've preached
36:27and taught myself
36:28over the years
36:29that recognizing
36:30now that there
36:32needs to be
36:33a more careful
36:34examination
36:34of what the Bible
36:35really says
36:37and taking it
36:37in context.
36:40A big thing
36:41that I've noticed
36:43in that is
36:44in the Pentecostal
36:45circles I'm around,
36:47the idea
36:49of the Holy Spirit,
36:51wanting the moving
36:53of the Holy Spirit,
36:54the manifestations
36:56of the gifts
36:57of the Spirit,
36:58and how
37:00in practice
37:01or in theory
37:02I should say
37:03it sounds all good.
37:04It sounds
37:05this is biblical,
37:06this is straight
37:07from the Bible,
37:08but in practice
37:10I'm noticing
37:11more and more
37:12that it's
37:13really not
37:14about wanting
37:15the presence
37:16of God
37:17and the Holy Spirit
37:18in your life.
37:20It's about
37:20seeking power
37:21and control,
37:23having some type
37:24of influence
37:24or affluence
37:26that you get
37:27from being
37:29able to say
37:30look at
37:31the way
37:33the Holy Spirit
37:34manifests itself
37:36in my ministry
37:37and what I'm doing
37:38and if you don't
37:40have that,
37:41then you don't
37:42have that
37:43fullness
37:43of what God
37:45wants for the church.
37:47I've heard you
37:48talk about it,
37:49I've heard
37:49some others
37:50talk about it,
37:51even my pastor
37:53here,
37:53he has some
37:54personal connections
37:55to John G. Lake.
37:57Part of his family
37:58grew up in Spokane,
38:00Washington,
38:00like right
38:01where he was
38:03when he was
38:04in the States
38:04and just that
38:06idea of the Holy Spirit
38:08and the gifts
38:09of the Spirit
38:09are talked about
38:11as the anointing.
38:13You need
38:14the anointing.
38:15You need the,
38:16it almost becomes
38:17like the force
38:18from Star Wars.
38:20You can manipulate
38:22it,
38:22you can use
38:24it in a way
38:25that other
38:26people can't
38:27and if you're
38:28strong enough
38:29in the force,
38:29if you're strong
38:30enough in the anointing,
38:31if you're connected
38:32enough to God,
38:33then you'll be able
38:34to see and do
38:35all these things
38:36and have
38:37that fullness,
38:39like have
38:40the ability
38:40of that full gospel
38:42and when you have
38:43that full gospel
38:44and that power
38:45and that annoying,
38:46I said annoying,
38:47I meant anointing,
38:51you'll see
38:52the signs
38:52and wonders,
38:53the miracles
38:54to be able
38:55to demonstrate
38:55that you have
38:56the power
38:56but if you're
38:58missing that,
39:00then you're
39:01not in line
39:03with what God
39:04wants for
39:05the church,
39:06you're not in line
39:07with what God
39:08wants for you.
39:09I see that
39:10connected to
39:12dominionism
39:12in a way that
39:13honestly,
39:15it scares me
39:15a little
39:16because people
39:17don't recognize
39:19that the
39:20seeking of
39:22the Holy Spirit
39:23in that sense
39:24and just wanting
39:25that power,
39:26that control
39:27over a force,
39:29how that can,
39:31that pursuit
39:32of that power
39:32can be twisted
39:34in a way,
39:35this is proof,
39:36this is evidence
39:37that you need
39:38to listen to me,
39:39that I'm the one
39:39in charge,
39:40that I'm the one
39:41in control
39:41and can very
39:43quickly become
39:44or place
39:46themselves in a
39:46position like
39:47a Mike Bickle
39:48or somebody
39:49where it can
39:51go to the
39:51extremes that
39:52it shouldn't
39:53be going to
39:54and then the
39:55people following
39:56them are all
39:57caught up in it
39:58and they don't
39:59realize that
39:59the person I'm
40:01following is
40:02not somebody
40:03who's safe,
40:04they're somebody
40:04that is taking
40:06the Bible
40:07and the truth
40:09of the word
40:09and manipulating
40:11it to be able
40:12to get other
40:13people to follow
40:14them without
40:17realizing that
40:18if they were
40:19following what
40:19the Bible says
40:20they would actually
40:22be calling this
40:23person out as
40:24somebody who is
40:25dangerous and
40:26you need to be
40:27wary of them.
40:28I don't know if
40:29you played this
40:29game as a kid
40:30in school but
40:31somebody would
40:32say a sentence
40:33or a phrase
40:34and then the
40:35next person would
40:36inject a few
40:37words into it
40:38and watch how
40:39the structure
40:39of the sentence
40:40can be changed
40:41to a whole new
40:41meaning.
40:43That's really
40:43what has happened
40:44here when you
40:45think about it
40:46because exactly
40:47what you said
40:48it's they're
40:49seeking the
40:49power and the
40:51Bible does say
40:52these signs
40:53shall follow
40:53them that
40:54believe and
40:55that's the
40:55verse that's
40:56typically used
40:56by most of
40:57the people
40:57that are
40:58seeking power
40:58but if you
41:00add phrases
41:00to it it
41:01sounds entirely
41:01differently.
41:02These signs
41:03shall follow
41:03them that
41:04believe and
41:05so therefore you
41:05individually must
41:06seek for those
41:07signs or
41:08these signs
41:09must follow
41:09these signs
41:10shall follow
41:11those that
41:11believe therefore
41:12you must go
41:13to this
41:13anointed person
41:14and he will
41:15give them to
41:15you.
41:16You can add
41:16things to it
41:17and you make
41:17it sound
41:18entirely different
41:19when you do
41:20that you'll
41:21never understand
41:22the verse
41:22an evil and
41:23adulterous
41:24generation seeks
41:24after a sign
41:25which that's
41:26also in the
41:26Bible.
41:27Those two are
41:28actually incompatible
41:29but you have
41:30to add to it
41:31the early church
41:32the way they
41:33looked at the
41:33gifts was that
41:34God is blessing
41:35us as a
41:36community.
41:37God is showing
41:38these things
41:38that we're
41:39God's people
41:40and he's doing
41:40this.
41:41It's not that
41:41each individual
41:42person tried to
41:43become a wizard
41:44within the
41:44community that
41:46they're in
41:46but this has
41:47turned into a
41:48community of
41:49wizards in the
41:50modern era.
41:51You have to go
41:51to the convention
41:52you've got to
41:53learn from the
41:53apostle.
41:54It gets really
41:55really weird
41:56when you think
41:57about it but
41:58that same theme
41:59applies to the
42:00word overcomer.
42:01I can't tell you
42:02how many times I
42:03heard the word
42:04overcomer in my
42:05language.
42:05When I go back
42:07and I read just
42:08the passages that
42:09are talking about
42:10being an overcomer
42:11it means nothing
42:12like that they
42:13trained me to
42:14believe.
42:15It wasn't these
42:16in time mature
42:17sons like they're
42:18teaching in
42:19Joel's army or
42:20you know we
42:21we call ourselves
42:21the bride
42:22we're the
42:22overcomer meaning
42:23that we're a
42:24level above the
42:25other Christians.
42:26We've got the
42:27algebra they've got
42:28the ABCs is how
42:29they would say it
42:29in my group.
42:30And it's all
42:31because you add a
42:32few words to it
42:33and you change
42:34what the language
42:34means.
42:35In other words
42:36you're reading
42:36more into it
42:37than is there.
42:38And I think
42:39that's where the
42:40hamburger helper
42:40became the real
42:41problem.
42:42The big thing
42:43that I see
42:45or that I've
42:46noticed where
42:47I am is
42:49the idea of
42:51when somebody
42:52says you need
42:53to be open
42:54to the spirit
42:54don't quench
42:56the spirit.
42:56You can't
42:57question somebody's
42:58personal experiences
43:00or if you
43:01expose somebody's
43:02personal sins
43:03you're going to
43:04hurt the
43:04movement.
43:05And this idea
43:06of what
43:07is my
43:09response to
43:09that what
43:10should my
43:10response to
43:11that be.
43:12Am I
43:13worried about
43:15defending
43:16a person
43:18or a movement
43:19or am I
43:20more concerned
43:21about what
43:22the biblical
43:22truth of the
43:23matter is.
43:24What does the
43:25Bible actually
43:25say about
43:27this?
43:28is my
43:29faith rooted
43:30in the
43:31public persona
43:33of a person
43:34or leader
43:34or is my
43:35faith rooted
43:36in Jesus?
43:37And if I
43:38can hear
43:39something that
43:41is said
43:42about a
43:43leader or a
43:44person and
43:45my immediate
43:47response is
43:48come to their
43:49defense,
43:51hide whatever
43:52I can,
43:54downplay it as
43:55much as
43:55possible to
43:57save face
43:58for them,
43:59then I
44:00really need
44:01to think
44:01like is it
44:02them that
44:03I'm focused
44:04on or is
44:05it Jesus?
44:06I think
44:06that's really
44:07what comes
44:09down to the
44:09heart of it
44:10is so many
44:11people are
44:12finding the
44:14security of
44:14their faith
44:15in what
44:16these people
44:17are saying
44:18and who
44:18these people
44:19are presenting
44:19themselves as
44:20instead of
44:22who Jesus
44:23is and what
44:24the Bible
44:24says about
44:25him and
44:26how we
44:26can know
44:27him for
44:27ourselves in
44:28relationship as
44:29our Savior,
44:30then it gets
44:32twisted in that
44:33way that we're
44:35lifting up that
44:36person, that
44:37leader, instead
44:38of holding true
44:40to what the
44:40Bible says.
44:41And when we
44:42do that, it
44:44is so easy
44:45to push for
44:47the idea of
44:49well, you just
44:50need to have
44:51that power and
44:53I need to be
44:53able to prove
44:54that this
44:54person has
44:55that power
44:55of the
44:57Holy Spirit
44:58instead of
44:58really understanding
44:59who the
45:00Holy Spirit
45:01is and
45:01his place
45:03in our
45:04lives as
45:05believers.
45:05What really
45:06comes down
45:07to me as
45:08kind of
45:09trying to
45:09start wrapping
45:10it up is
45:11the understanding
45:13of what's my
45:14motivation.
45:15Am I
45:16speaking about
45:17this?
45:17Am I
45:18talking about
45:18it or
45:19sharing about
45:20it?
45:20Because I
45:21want to
45:22discredit or
45:22tear somebody
45:23down?
45:24Or am I
45:25concerned for
45:26the church
45:26that they
45:27not be led
45:27astray?
45:28If my
45:29motivation is
45:31to tear
45:31somebody down,
45:32I just don't
45:33like this
45:33person, I
45:34don't like
45:35what they're
45:35saying, I
45:36don't click
45:37with them
45:38and their
45:38personality,
45:39then okay,
45:40I just don't
45:42need to listen
45:42to them.
45:43But if my
45:43motivation is
45:44out of love
45:45and concern
45:46for the
45:47church, for
45:47the body
45:48of Christ,
45:49wanting them
45:50to know the
45:51truth of what
45:52the Bible
45:52says and
45:53the truth
45:54of the
45:54gospel,
45:55then I
45:56need to
45:56make sure
45:57I'm doing
45:57what Paul
45:58said to
45:58the
45:59Corinthians
45:59and make
46:00sure that
46:00it's in
46:00love.
46:01If you
46:02can have
46:02the
46:03demonstration
46:04of the
46:05gifts of
46:06the Spirit,
46:06you can
46:06have all
46:08the signs
46:08and wonders
46:09and like
46:10you said,
46:10the signs
46:11and wonders
46:12will accompany
46:12those who
46:13believe,
46:13but are
46:14the signs
46:15and wonders
46:15accompanying
46:16those who
46:17truly believe
46:18what the
46:19Bible says
46:20or is
46:21it like
46:21the people
46:22who come
46:23to Jesus
46:24and say,
46:26look, I
46:26prophesied in
46:27your name,
46:28I did the
46:28miracles,
46:29I healed
46:30people,
46:30and Jesus
46:31says to
46:32them, I
46:32don't know
46:33you, and
46:33they're sent
46:34away.
46:34The way
46:35that some
46:36of these
46:37people are
46:38preaching what
46:39they call the
46:40full gospel
46:41leads me to
46:42think that
46:42they actually
46:43do believe
46:44that they
46:45themselves
46:45are the
46:47ones who
46:48truly believe
46:49and they're
46:50just caught
46:50up, they
46:51don't understand
46:52that what
46:53they're doing
46:54is actually
46:54not a
46:55personal
46:56relationship
46:56to God
46:57and the
46:57Holy Spirit,
46:58but they're
46:59just seeking
47:00that power
47:01and that
47:01control
47:02instead of
47:03understanding
47:04who God
47:04is and
47:05his place
47:06in their
47:06lives.
47:07Well, think
47:07of that
47:08verse that
47:08you just
47:08mentioned,
47:09Lord, have
47:10I not
47:10prophesied in
47:11your name,
47:12have I not
47:12done these
47:13miracles?
47:13It's
47:14always
47:14have I
47:15not done.
47:17It's
47:17not, those
47:18people were
47:18not thinking
47:19about what
47:20Jesus had
47:20done, they
47:21were thinking
47:21what they
47:21had done
47:22and that's
47:23really the
47:23problem that
47:24I see that
47:24is the
47:24difference
47:25and it
47:26goes through
47:26every layer
47:27of this.
47:28Every
47:28building block
47:28of theology
47:29that this
47:30was built
47:30upon takes
47:31you all the
47:32way to
47:32victory and
47:33if you read
47:34the biblical
47:34version of
47:35victory,
47:36well, Jesus
47:36gave you the
47:37victory.
47:37It's already
47:38done, it
47:39is finished,
47:39but they
47:40have to become
47:41the mechanism
47:42that's doing
47:42the victory
47:43and these
47:44types of
47:44movements because
47:45that's the
47:45doctrinal framework
47:46that was
47:47developed that
47:48they're preaching
47:49and adding new
47:50doctrines to.
47:50It's a totally
47:51different framework
47:52of doctrine.
47:53When I realized
47:55that, I had to
47:56take a step
47:56back and think,
47:58well, what do I
47:58have that's real
47:59in my doctrine?
48:01And I'll be
48:02honest, I just
48:02went to a clean
48:03slate.
48:04I walked in one
48:05day, I've
48:06mentioned this
48:07before, I'll never
48:07forget to look on
48:08the minister's face
48:10because I sat
48:10down and I
48:11told them, I'm
48:11starting over from
48:12ground zero, tell
48:14me why you believe
48:14the gospel, what
48:15is it?
48:16And I just
48:16started from
48:17ground zero,
48:18nothing was on
48:19my slate, and I
48:20just started
48:21building back
48:22pieces, but I
48:24took it in this
48:25new way.
48:26I wanted to only
48:27add a doctrine if
48:28I could find it
48:29exactly word for
48:30word, verbatim,
48:31what they were
48:32teaching.
48:33And most of the
48:34doctrines, and you
48:36can funnel through,
48:37I can't remember
48:37the passage, you
48:38may know it, but
48:39it says basically
48:40all doctrines are
48:41built in love.
48:42Have I become a
48:44tinkling symbol of
48:45those passages
48:46talking about, I
48:47can do all these
48:48great works and
48:48miracles, but if I
48:49have not love, I'm
48:50nothing.
48:51So I would take a
48:52doctrine and add it
48:53on, well, can I
48:54love my neighbor if
48:55I'm believing this?
48:57Yes or no?
48:58And you can almost
48:59build your entire
48:59faith in that way,
49:02and it's quite
49:03different, a
49:04religion, than what
49:04I came out of.
49:05I think that is
49:07the hard part for
49:09people to understand
49:10who are in the
49:11middle of that, is
49:13the idea that it's
49:16really focused on
49:17yourself and what
49:18you can do and what
49:20you're doing, instead
49:21of who is Jesus and
49:23what has he done for
49:25you, and living your
49:26life in response to
49:28that, not creating or
49:30causing it.
49:31Even the idea of
49:32building your faith,
49:34what is your faith
49:35rooted in, I've
49:36heard so many people
49:38talk about, you
49:38need to decree and
49:40declare to be able
49:41to prove that you
49:42have faith in your
49:44prayer language, and
49:46if you're not
49:46decreeing and
49:47declaring things, you
49:48don't have faith to
49:49see, to understand
49:50that it's already
49:52been accomplished in
49:53the work that Jesus
49:54did on the cross, to
49:56the point where the
49:57guy saying this gave
49:59an example of going
50:00to the hospital and
50:01the doctor telling
50:02him he had shingles,
50:03and then he looks
50:05at the doctor and
50:05says, well, no, I
50:06don't, I don't have
50:08shingles, I said, yes,
50:09you do, you have
50:10shingles, the outbreak
50:11is right there on the
50:13side of your skin,
50:14no, I don't have
50:15shingles, and just
50:16refusing to acknowledge
50:18it, lying to himself
50:19and to other people
50:20that he doesn't have
50:21it, but then still
50:21needing to treat it
50:22for three days, and
50:24maybe it was a
50:25miracle that in three
50:26days it was able to
50:28be treated and left,
50:30you know, I don't
50:31know, but maybe
50:32shingles last longer
50:33for certain people,
50:34maybe three days is a
50:35typical thing, but
50:36just that idea of if
50:38you don't have enough
50:40faith to decree and
50:42declare, then you
50:44don't have enough
50:45faith to be in the
50:47fullness of what God
50:49has for you, and
50:50it's just nonsense.
50:53The same guy had to
50:54later go and have
50:55heart surgery, like,
50:57did you not have
50:57enough faith to be
50:58able to decree and
50:59declare that you
51:00didn't need the
51:00heart surgery and
51:01you didn't have
51:02problems?
51:02It doesn't make
51:03sense, and yet this
51:05is the type of
51:06leadership that people
51:08are willing to put
51:09themselves under and
51:10follow because they
51:13don't completely want
51:15to take responsibility
51:17of what are we
51:19called to as
51:21Christians?
51:21How are we called
51:22to live?
51:23We're called to live
51:24in response to what
51:26Jesus has done for
51:27us.
51:27I think of the
51:29example of the
51:31people who come to
51:32Jesus and he says,
51:34you may come into
51:36the kingdom, you
51:37took care of the
51:39blind, you went to
51:40jail, you took care of
51:42the poor, you did all
51:43of this, and when you
51:44did it to them, you
51:45did it to me.
51:46And then others come
51:49and he says, no, you
51:50didn't do this.
51:51You didn't do it as
51:53unto me.
51:54You're not coming in.
51:55Away from me, you
51:56evildoers.
51:57I think it was in
51:58Matthew.
51:59It's either Matthew
52:007 or Matthew 25.
52:02That idea of you're
52:04living your life in
52:05response to who Jesus
52:07is and what he's done,
52:08that's what's important.
52:10And it comes back to
52:11how Paul, again,
52:12explained it.
52:13If it's not done in
52:15love, then it means
52:16nothing.
52:16It's just a sounding
52:18gong or a clanging
52:19cymbal.
52:19And if we don't get
52:23that, if we don't
52:23understand that, then
52:25it's just a vain
52:27pursuit.
52:28It's going to be
52:28seeking that power and
52:29that control of showing
52:32who God is instead of
52:34living your life for
52:36him.
52:36And that's what I want
52:38to share with people
52:39or encourage people
52:40with is when you read
52:43the Bible, it's all
52:45there for us to be
52:46able to see and to
52:48understand.
52:49It's okay to ask
52:51questions.
52:52It's okay to seek
52:54further understanding.
52:56But do it because you
52:58want to know God.
53:00Don't come into it
53:02trying to prove one
53:04person right or wrong.
53:05Come into it wanting
53:07to know who God is and
53:09let the Bible minister
53:10to you because it's
53:12all there for us.
53:13Well, I decree and
53:14declare that I won't
53:16have shingles because I
53:17took the shingles
53:18vaccine.
53:19And for those who are
53:21interested in knowing a
53:23little bit more, if you
53:24get the antiviral within
53:2772 hours, it clears up
53:29very quickly.
53:29You can find studies of
53:30that online.
53:31But the point I'm trying
53:33to make is there are
53:34things that we try to
53:36spin into the miraculous
53:38that aren't really that
53:39miraculous.
53:40But whenever somebody
53:41does it, it elevates
53:42somebody's faith in the
53:44miraculous.
53:44And the faith is in the
53:46miraculous rather than
53:47faith in Jesus.
53:48That was the mentality
53:49that I had.
53:50We actually had faith in
53:51faith, if that makes any
53:52sense.
53:53But that was the mentality
53:54that I had.
53:55So very glad that I no
53:57longer have a religion of
53:58faith and faith.
53:59Thank you so much for
53:59doing this.
54:00Well, thanks for having
54:01me.
54:02If you've enjoyed our show
54:03and you want more
54:03information, you can check
54:04us out on the web.
54:05You can find us at
54:06william-branum.org.
54:08For more about the dark
54:09side of the new
54:09apostolic reformation, you
54:11can read Weaponized
54:11Religion from Christian
54:13Identity to the NAR.
54:14Available on Amazon,
54:16Kindle, and Audible.
55:09Weaponized