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Willard and Dibs react to all the praise high-profile NFL players have paid to Kyle Shanahan lately. Is he one of the better coaches in NFL history?
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00:00We promised letting you hear what Joe Thomas said about Kyle Shanahan.
00:04And I want everybody, listen, if you're not, you know what I mean?
00:07If you're listening to us the same way I listen to Troy Aikman,
00:10where it's just kind of on over there and you're not really paying.
00:13No, no, no. Lock in for a second.
00:15Lock in, 49er fans.
00:18You have got to hear this comment.
00:22Joe Thomas, you said, played for 11 years.
00:26747 quarterbacks or something like that.
00:2820, but yeah.
00:29How many coaches came through, and not just head coaches, obviously.
00:32We're talking about the coordinator, so an estimation sensation.
00:37We're probably talking about, and then go to his college career, his high school career.
00:42Anything that he's experienced out in the world.
00:45This is probably, I would imagine, hundreds of people.
00:48I would imagine.
00:49No doubt.
00:51Listen to what this Hall of Fame man said about the head coach
00:58of the San Francisco 49ers.
01:01You asked him about Kyle.
01:03Kyle was his offensive coordinator in 2014.
01:06Here's Joe Thomas.
01:08I had Kyle in 2014 in Cleveland, and just one year with him,
01:12I realized pretty quickly he's the best football coach or coach of any sport that I've ever been around,
01:17because I think he's a combination of an X's and O's genius and an incredible motivator.
01:22And when you think about what makes a great motivator, to me in the NFL,
01:26it's more than just what people think about Vince Lombardi, maybe, or Bill Parcells is going to chew your ass
01:31when you do something bad.
01:32To me, it's about understanding the emotional intelligence of, like, how do I get to my players?
01:36How do I get the most out of them every single week?
01:38You know, it's a long season.
01:39If you just come in with the same temperament and you're running hot all the time,
01:43like, maybe guys start tuning you out.
01:44But I thought Kyle was the best motivator I was ever around,
01:47because what he did was he did a great job of showing you how the game plan is the best
01:52game plan possible,
01:53and it puts you in an advantageous situation over your opponents.
01:57And if all you have to do in that situation is go out and execute the game plan that has
02:03been laid out
02:04and detailed through the assistant coaches all the way through your coordinators and your head coach,
02:08just follow that roadmap, and I'm giving you an advantage to go out and win the game.
02:12And everything that you've ever wanted in your life, whether it be personal success,
02:16you want to make more money in the NFL, you want to win a championship,
02:19you want to win with your teammates, like, it's laid out for you.
02:22All you have to do is follow this roadmap.
02:24What a statement.
02:25The best coach of any kind or any sport I've ever been around.
02:33Speaking of Kyle Shanahan, and he had him for one year,
02:36and that's following something that we played for you earlier,
02:40Trent Williams, back in the month of March on the Pivot podcast.
02:46Me and Christian had the same conversation, but, like, I came here at a 10-year event.
02:51Like, I learned more just in that 30-minute team meeting that we had with Kyle,
02:55breaking down the next opponent.
02:57I learned more football in that time than I did the previous 10 years, you know.
03:01And you can ask anybody, they'll tell you the same thing.
03:05He teaches you about the way he breaks it down is literally, like, something you've never seen,
03:10like, down to, like, how the cornerback, like, where his weight is,
03:14and just the way he diagnosed football is really, I hate that everybody can't witness it.
03:19You know, I hate that everybody can't, because then it would be no question who's the best coach in the
03:24league.
03:24You know, everybody would understand why.
03:26I hate that we're the only ones that get to see that, but, you know, he, I mean,
03:29I can see him talking about Kyle all day, like, that's like a brother to me.
03:33I mean, this is Trent Williams and Joe Thomas we're talking about.
03:35This is not just like, oh, you know, these are players on the Niners, and so they love their guy.
03:43These are guys who, one's in the Hall of Fame, the other one will be literally the second that he's
03:49allowed to be.
03:50These are longtime vets.
03:51They've played in different spots.
03:53They've played for a lot of different people, and both of them have beyond the utmost respect of everybody in
04:02that locker room.
04:03I just think, look, it's not, we're not breaking any news here that Kyle Shanahan is a good coach,
04:10but I do think there's a couple things out there.
04:13A, somehow, someway, I still find him to be underappreciated,
04:17even though I do think 49er fans, especially because of last year, have kind of come around.
04:23But the thing that really stands out in listening to these guys talk,
04:27because how would we know they're the ones who've actually played for them?
04:31The consistent thing we hear, and there's actually somebody who just texted with us,
04:36925, just within the last 20 minutes or so,
04:41who said, yes, Kyle's an extremely good coach, an offensive genius, a motivator, okay, yes.
04:48A leader of men, as a leader, he is incapable of coming up with an alternative plan.
04:56Listen, this is still the narrative for a lot of people.
05:01Great quarter, great play caller, great play sheet, great design, not a leader.
05:09And I'm just sitting here going, I think we've got it wrong.
05:14And they're sitting here telling you.
05:17They're telling you that he motivates, unlike anyone that they've ever played for before.
05:21What was the last line in that text when they said,
05:24a leader of men doesn't have the ability to adjust?
05:28Doesn't have the ability to come up with an alternate plan, and then goes on,
05:35which is why as soon as it starts to go, it really goes almost every time.
05:40And if we care about Kyle, we need to let him go.
05:42Okay.
05:43I don't think that that's the way the organization looks at it.
05:46And, you know, come up with an alternative plan, such as when the Bengals lose Joe Burrow,
05:53and now you've got to go to a backup quarterback, and all of a sudden your season's over.
05:57So I don't know if that texter meant an alternative plan in a game where...
06:01I think so.
06:02Like an adjustment.
06:04Right.
06:04So you're up by 10, and then now you're behind, and so you have to make that adjustment.
06:09I think you could be critical like that of any coach.
06:13But for me, that's not even like the leadership part of it.
06:16You can call the right play and have them not execute, such as the Super Bowl a couple years ago,
06:21right,
06:21where the play was there.
06:23Ayuk was open, and the blocker went the wrong way.
06:25And so the play got blown up, and you had to kick a field goal.
06:29Like, not everything is a straight line, like, oh, you lose, it's coach's fault.
06:33Almost nothing is.
06:34Right.
06:35Almost nothing is linear.
06:38And so, yeah, completely with you on that.
06:42I don't know why, and maybe this is an extension of the conversation we had about Purdy,
06:49who, by the way, I think both of these guys have quieted many of their detractors in the last 12
06:58months or so.
06:59Doesn't it feel like Brock Purdy is getting a lot more love just out in this space?
07:06Doesn't it feel like he's getting a lot more this year?
07:10Absolutely, and it's only one game in, but.
07:12I mean, even before the game.
07:14Even before the game, there was just a lot more.
07:16There's something that happened where there's an acceptance.
07:19I don't know if it was winning a playoff game on the road as an underdog.
07:23Maybe.
07:24I don't know what it was.
07:25It could be body of work, too, because now you're starting to really stack a lot of games,
07:29and Lorenzo Neal apparently was on the Jim Rome show today.
07:32It was.
07:32I don't know if it was today, but it was recently.
07:35I saw some clips.
07:36And he talked about how Brock is no longer just riding the bus, or he's no longer driving the bus.
07:43In other words, he's not just a game manager.
07:44He's the guy who's out there making things happen, and so we've talked about this a bunch.
07:49He's 100 or so pass attempts away from being number one all-time in quarterback rating,
07:54assuming he doesn't completely fall apart over the next four, probably four games.
07:59Do you think?
08:00How many attempts is it?
08:01I think 113 or 117, so that's about 30 a game, which is usually a little below 30 a game,
08:09I would guess.
08:09I mean, we're going to, like, I'm going to project here, but I feel like, like, actually a buddy of
08:14mine,
08:14we have this little thing that we do.
08:17We're all, like, a group of friends, about 10 of us, and we do this, you know, 10-pick parlay
08:23thing.
08:23Everybody put in one pick.
08:25Oh, that's right.
08:25We just put in a couple of bucks.
08:27Let's see if we can, you know, hit the big one at some point or whatever.
08:31So, someone put in the over on Brock Purdy's pass yards this weekend, and nobody's allowed to, like, talk anyone
08:39else out of their pick.
08:41That's their pick.
08:42But I looked at it, and I went, ugh.
08:44It's like 245 or something.
08:45Well, doesn't it feel like the Niners are going to just be up in this game and then run the
08:51ball?
08:52That's kind of what's, that's me picturing the game.
08:54I don't know how it's going to go.
08:56But to your point, yeah, I don't know how much throwing they're going to do over the next few weeks.
09:03And if they, you know, play like they did against the Rams, he played great, but people love his stats
09:08because he had three touchdown throws.
09:10He only had just above 200 yards passing.
09:13Yeah, it's my fantasy quarterback.
09:15Yeah.
09:15And they may not have to throw it against Miami similarly.
09:17And honestly, if you look at the blueprint for Shanahan in wins throughout his whole career, it is that.
09:24It is we want 30 rushes.
09:26We want to control the proceedings.
09:27We don't want to have to throw it all over the park.
09:30I think they have a quarterback now who can to an extent, but the Shanahan blueprint has always been get
09:36the lead, lead at the half, run the ball, control the game and, you know, keep mistakes to a minimum.
09:43707.
09:44Thank you so much for listening and for tuning in.
09:48Love you, but you're beating a dead horse.
09:50No one is ever going to give Kyle Shanahan or Steve Kerr the credit they deserve.
09:56No matter how many Hall of Famers, no matter how many all-time legends give them the credit, these fans
10:06are ridiculous in the Bay Area.
10:08Not all of them.
10:09No, I'll say that, like, I really do think that, okay, so that comment, I understand it, and I've fallen
10:15prey to this before, too.
10:17I just think there are voices out there that sometimes are a very vocal minority.
10:21And, for instance, you know, calling radio shows, we know this, we're in this business, when the 49ers win, and
10:30this is maybe not a great example last week because they won in Australia and it was so high profile,
10:35our phones were jammed the next day.
10:37But in general, when your team wins, there's less immediate engagement as opposed to when they lose.
10:45Anger is what drives a lot of engagement in the media world.
10:52Therefore, we're going to get a lot of voices that come through when they're angry and when somebody does something
10:58wrong or if a person just doesn't like Kyle Shanahan or Steve Kerr.
11:02So, in general, I do think most fans really do appreciate these coaches.
11:09They really do.
11:10I mean, I look back on how things were here, go back, I don't know, say, seven or eight years,
11:18seven or eight years ago, Kyle Shanahan's coaching the Niners, Steve Kerr's coaching the Warriors, and Bruce Bochy is coaching
11:24the Giants.
11:26And, wow, that's pretty sweet.
11:27That's pretty amazing.
11:30That's three very highly respected, effective people.
11:35Obviously, there is one that has not won a championship, of course.
11:40And that would be his first year, which is almost the end of Boach and Kerr.
11:44I think 2017, he had, what, the two titles right there and on his way to getting another one, and
11:50then 2022.
11:51So, Shanahan was the new guy, the newcomer, but in nine-plus years, I think he's gone from bad roster
11:58to established as you're a good team and you're a good coach.
12:03And Joe Thomas saying, you know, that one year, and I was looking at the numbers, 2014, Shanahan's the offensive
12:09coordinator.
12:10The Browns went seven and nine, which you're thinking, okay, seven and nine, big whoop.
12:15That was their second best year in Joe Thomas' 11-year run in Cleveland.
12:20And so, and I was looking at some of the players on that team.
12:24You had Terrence West, the running back, Isaiah Crowell.
12:28Oh, my God.
12:28They ran it almost 500 times.
12:30He established his cute little ground game that he loves to have.
12:34They went out there and pounded it.
12:36They won seven games.
12:37Did Manziel quarterback all of those games?
12:39It was Hoyer.
12:40That was a Hoyer year.
12:41Oh, it wasn't Manziel?
12:43Nope, man.
12:44I think that was his rookie year.
12:45Okay.
12:47So, two Manziel starts and a Connor Shaw for a good measure.
12:50Connor Shaw.
12:51Yeah.
12:52Okay.
12:52And even at that, Hoyer, he completed 55% of his passes.
12:57They did not have a good roster.
12:59And yet, not only because of Shanahan, but in his one year there, Joe Thomas speaks to it.
13:05Like, he taught them a ton about the way he goes about doing it.
13:08And they were an effective team by Cleveland standards.
13:11Yeah, it's fascinating.
13:13I wonder, man.
13:15I wonder.
13:16I've said this for quite some time about Purdy.
13:20You know, you and I used to have that Purdy conversation.
13:23And I would always go, hey, when's it going to stop?
13:27When's it going to stop?
13:28When are we going to stop doing this to people?
13:30And you would always answer, when he wins the Super Bowl.
13:33And my response to that was, I don't even think it's going to happen then.
13:36I think we're going to make up a reason for that.
13:39And there are examples of it.
13:41We do know quarterbacks out there who don't get credit for winning the Super Bowl.
13:45The Trent Dilfers and the Brad Johnsons.
13:46I'd argue, if you have been around long enough to remember this, Tom Brady did not get credit until his
13:53second.
13:54His first one, he was still a baby.
13:57And they went out there and they won a low-scoring game.
13:59I think it was 20-17 or something like that.
14:02Yeah, over the Rams, I think.
14:03Yes, and they ran the ball and they had really good defense.
14:06And that was that one where Brady is in the confetti and he's holding both sides of his head.
14:11And he's just going, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God, what has happened to me?
14:15And I think at that time, people were just like, yeah, Brady did some good things, but he's along for
14:21the ride.
14:22So this still happens.
14:25I wonder if we could transfer that conversation to Kyle Shanahan.
14:33I mean, does it not stop until he wins a ring?
14:37And then what happens if and when he does?
14:40Let's say he finally gets over the top because, my gosh, I don't know if I can Cal-shee this.
14:46If there's something I'd love to Cal-shee, it's that Kyle's going to get one at some point.
14:52I sure hope it's here.
14:54But he's going to get one.
14:56I think it's like...
14:57Well, if he wants to be a lifer because...
15:01I'm sure.
15:01Yeah, he's mid-40s.
15:03He's a young man, right?
15:04Yeah, exactly.
15:04But he can decide after however many years, burnout or whatnot, or he can just keep on doing it.
15:11Andy's coming up on being 70, I think, and he's been coaching for a heck of a long time.
15:16But I agree with you.
15:17Like, Shanahan, will he get one here with Purdy?
15:21I would say probably.
15:23And I can't help but always go back to the Andy Reid, 14 years in Philly, 10-9 in the
15:29playoffs,
15:30which means 9 of the 14, you were in the playoffs.
15:33And after 14 years, it was, all right, enough is enough.
15:37Then he goes to Kansas City, and it's pow, pow, pow.
15:39How about three?
15:40How about three for you, Philly?
15:42I just think there's little things that we can point to, though, that at least attempt to deepen the conversation.
15:50Let me play again for you.
15:51We played this earlier, let you hear it again.
15:53If you've been with us all afternoon, we appreciate the hell out of you.
15:56But those of you who are new here in the 5 o'clock hour, Nick Foles on the Green Light
16:02Podcast with Chris Long.
16:04Listen closely to this.
16:05This is wild also.
16:06There's no one better than Kyle Shanahan to open up windows.
16:09When I was doing research for this, I never played for Kyle, but I talked to guys that did.
16:13I'm like, why is he such an elite game planner?
16:15Because everyone's trying to run his plays.
16:17The difference is they don't have Kyle Shanahan teaching and calling the plays.
16:21So that's the difference.
16:21He said he knows exactly what everyone's responsibility is on the defense and the game plan.
16:27There's no wasted plays.
16:29Everything is calculated and everything is designed to create stress on the defensive responsibility on the other side of the
16:35ball.
16:35There's never a playoff.
16:36There's never a wasted play.
16:38Everything they do is with a purpose to stress the responsibility so they cannot be right.
16:42I've played for a lot of coaching staffs.
16:43I've been on some that I feel like the Eagles won, though.
16:46We won the Super Bowl.
16:46Outstanding game planning.
16:47But most of the time I'm on coaching staffs where they're looking at plays the week before.
16:52Oh, what did Kyle Shanahan run?
16:53Let's run that play.
16:54And when we run it, it's like, hey, your footwork's this.
16:56And they're just installing the play.
16:58They're not installing why this play is great.
17:00Why?
17:01Because Kyle Shanahan knows that stuff.
17:02That's why he's great.
17:03And when his team is healthy, they have a chance to go to the Super Bowl.
17:06The biggest thing throughout this year is can they finally stay somewhat healthy?
17:10And do they have depth?
17:11Okay, you have to throw that caveat in.
17:13Anytime you're talking about this football team, and I get it.
17:17It's true.
17:18Can they actually stay healthy?
17:20But to me, and my way of thinking, I hear stuff like that where Nick Foles is basically
17:25making it sound like coaches around the league just want to get together on Tuesday to find
17:29out what Kyle did so we can try to copy all of this.
17:33I am very comfortable, in my opinion, that Kyle Shanahan is the best coach in the NFL.
17:40I would trade him for nothing.
17:42We've talked about this before.
17:44I know for some of you, it goes to resume.
17:48And if you don't have a green check there at the bottom of the resume next to Super Bowl,
17:52then you sort of eliminate him.
17:55I just don't look at it that way.
17:58I would never make decisions about a coach or a staff or even a quarterback or a player all based
18:05on only the last game.
18:06One game.
18:07If I see someone go to the playoffs every year, move through the playoffs every year, but you don't have
18:13that last game,
18:14that feels like a very small way to assess somebody's brilliance or ability in their given job.
18:23So I look at it very differently.
18:25In fact, I'm pretty sure I know that if we had before the Netflix game last week,
18:32if we had said Shanahan or McVay, I bet most Niner fans would have been like, it'd be unfair to
18:39say anything but McVay.
18:41McVay.
18:42I heard Stiney do it.
18:43He didn't even blink.
18:44Neither did Guru.
18:45Oh, yeah.
18:46I'd rather have McVay.
18:47How about now?
18:48How about now?
18:49It's a pretty small sample.
18:50It's an incredibly small sample, but I'd argue that's doing the same thing.
18:54With the one game?
18:54If you're going to make it about the last game, then let's make it about one game.
18:58Kyle just ran circles around Sean last week.
19:02Whether it was the travel plan, the game plan, I don't care what plan, Kyle ran circles around Sean last
19:10week
19:10and has a winning record against him career-wise.
19:14Sean, better record overall, and he's got the ring.
19:17He's got the bowl.
19:18And I think Stiney's argument, and I don't want to speak for him too much, but it was more resume.
19:24As opposed to ability, Shanahan can be better, and McVay can be more accomplished.
19:29And he is, based on, he has about eight more wins, and he's got a Super Bowl victory.
19:34So, just resume, it is McVay.
19:37Now, going forward, before the Netflix game, if you had them all at zero wins and zero losses
19:42and zero Super Bowls from now going forward, is Shanahan going to have a better next three to five years?
19:49You could argue yes, but the other piece of this, and this is maybe where Kyle Shanahan has his biggest
19:55deficit,
19:56and it is as a front office voice, because Les Snead with the Rams, I think, has been far better
20:03than what Lynch and Shanahan have come up with in their nine years.
20:06I think that's fair.
20:07And that's a hard one.
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