- 2 months ago
Willard and Dibs debate how big of a season this is for 49ers head coach Kyle Shanahan.
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00:00How big of a year is it for Kyle Shanahan?
00:03So, you and I both said,
00:05well, not as big as you might think.
00:07And I don't want anyone to take that the wrong way.
00:09Like, yeah, you know, who cares, whatever.
00:12They're all big.
00:13And I'm, like, everybody's got a ticking clock.
00:16There's no human being that doesn't have a ticking clock.
00:18What is it you want to do in life?
00:19You want to have a kid?
00:20Do you want to get a job?
00:21Do you want to make more money?
00:22Do you want to get into the college of your choice?
00:25Like, whatever it is you do,
00:26like, you've all got a ticking clock.
00:27We all do.
00:28So, Kyle Shanahan's no different.
00:30Sure, this has arrived at the uncomfortable.
00:33If you're a golf fan, this is a normal thing.
00:37The best player to have never won a major.
00:39Well, Kyle, in the NFL, that's you, dog.
00:43You're the best coach to have never won a major.
00:46Probably.
00:46I mean, there's no question in my mind.
00:48And that's an uncomfortable label to have on the back of your jersey.
00:53So, there's a ticking clock,
00:55but I don't get the vibe that the Niners are uncomfortable with him,
00:59and I don't get the vibe that he's uncomfortable with the Niners.
01:02And when people talk about an aging roster, especially on offense,
01:07I'll buy that, but their quarterback's not one of the people.
01:10And to me, when you're a coach, that's kind of what you're looking at.
01:13When I'm Jim Harbaugh, and I'm like, oof, I should probably leave Michigan.
01:17This is getting a little wonky out here.
01:18I'm looking at NFL opportunities every year, which is the one that I finally picked.
01:23It's the one that has a young Justin Herbert.
01:26That's how you pick your job when you're an elite coach.
01:29And so, I find the list of teams and situations that would make Kyle Shanahan
01:34leave a 26-year-old Brock Purdy to be a very short list.
01:37It's a very short list, especially when you think about
01:40the longest tenured coach in football right now is Andy Reid.
01:43Is Andy going to walk away from peak Patrick Mahomes?
01:47Probably not.
01:48And then you look at the other spots.
01:50You've got McVay.
01:52He's going to be sticking and staying.
01:54The only one, and you mentioned this maybe before the show,
01:57Zach Taylor in Cincinnati.
01:58So, you've got Joe Burrow.
02:00And if he was to, I don't know, lose his gig or go elsewhere,
02:05Matt LeFleur in Green Bay has been there since 2019.
02:08I don't think that his born-on date is coming up.
02:11And beyond that, you've got Dan Campbell.
02:14They're biting kneecaps.
02:15They're not going to get rid of him.
02:17O'Connell in Minnesota?
02:18Probably not.
02:20Bowles in Tampa Bay?
02:22Stiken in Indy?
02:23Are any of those jobs more attractive than this one
02:26where you liked Brock Purdy, you picked him in the draft,
02:30and now he's 26?
02:31I also think you have to just, like, we can't even answer those sometimes
02:36because it's, like, what's actually going on in situations like this
02:40is behind the scenes.
02:41Like, it's not just a coach of the 49ers,
02:44it's a human being with a family.
02:45And he's lived in the same place for 10 years.
02:48His kids have grown up here.
02:49This is the Steph Curry conversation all over again.
02:51Right.
02:52Like, oh, he's going to want to go to Charlotte.
02:53Is he?
02:54He's got, like, 27 kids.
02:56They're all in school.
02:58You know what I mean?
02:58So I have no idea what makes Kyle tick.
03:02But he looked pretty comfortable in his own skin around here, to me.
03:06I was outside looking in, but that's the way it looks to me.
03:10And the other piece is, for me anyway,
03:13if everybody wants to assign him the credit and the blame
03:17for drafting the players, and I don't even know if that's fully the case,
03:20but if he's into that, you're probably not going to get that somewhere else.
03:24If you go to a new team, are you going to automatically walk in
03:28and say, yeah, I'm going to do the draft, and I'm going to coach the team?
03:31I don't know.
03:31I mean, there are a handful of people in the NFL that I think,
03:36if a team is like, hey, we've got your eye, you know, we want you,
03:41they probably would give those people whatever control they want.
03:46You know, when the Giants got John Harbaugh, John Harbaugh had options.
03:51And I don't even know what the power structure there is
03:54and the player personnel of it all.
03:55But, John, he probably got whatever he wanted.
03:58And I think Kyle is one of those people in the NFL.
04:01I think if you're a team that's struggling to get over the top
04:05and maybe you've got a young quarterback that you like or whatever
04:09and you started having a conversation with a lame duck Kyle Shanahan
04:13who the Niners don't re-sign a year and a half from now,
04:17which to me is like an odd thought anyway.
04:20But if all that were to happen, yeah,
04:22you'd probably give Kyle whatever the hell Kyle wants if you could get him to say yes.
04:26I suppose.
04:27And, you know, I'm looking at all the jobs that have been filled in the last three years.
04:31It's 20 of the 32 have a coach who's either in their first year, second year, or third year.
04:37Interesting.
04:37And I think Jason Lockett for was mentioning Washington,
04:40like the prodigal son going home back to the commanders.
04:43But Dan Quinn has coached there for two seasons and they've made the playoffs
04:47and they have a good young quarterback that they like.
04:50And so I don't even know if Kyle would say, you know what,
04:53I'd rather coach Jaden Daniels than Brock Purdy.
04:56That to me feels like a little bit of a lateral move.
04:58Remind me where Jason Lockett for lives.
05:00I'm Baltimore.
05:01Oh, right.
05:01I forgot.
05:02Yeah.
05:02Which is in the DMV.
05:04Right next to the Washington commanders.
05:06Okay.
05:07Let's go to Matt in San Francisco.
05:08Hi, Matt.
05:09Thanks for calling, man.
05:10What's up?
05:11Hey, guys.
05:12Hey, yeah.
05:13How's it going?
05:14Pretty good.
05:15Pretty good.
05:15Pretty good.
05:16First day of Christmas.
05:17So we're excited.
05:19Absolutely.
05:20So first off, you're absolutely right.
05:24Everyone's on a ticking clock.
05:26I think Shani is on a gigantic hourglass.
05:29I don't think he's going anywhere.
05:32I think he's happy.
05:33I think the franchise is happy.
05:34But to your point about how important is this season,
05:38I think it's kind of interesting because I do think it's a big year
05:41because, one, a lot of the window on a lot of these players,
05:46like everyone keeps talking about, you know, every season it seems like,
05:48oh, it's closing, it's closing.
05:50The thing that I think is kind of interesting and challenging for Shani right now
05:55is that the offense, every season pretty much that he's been here,
05:59has been on point.
06:00Even with the injuries last year, he kept that offense moving just because
06:04of his skill set and his ability.
06:07The missing link, I think, has been, and it was glaringly obvious when Sala
06:11was not here, is finding that defensive counterpart that balances things out
06:17to where you don't have to outscore everybody.
06:19Because really, since that last Super Bowl run, the Niners' defense has not been
06:25what I'd call intimidating at all, and it's been snake-bitten with injuries.
06:29And that's why I think having Raheem Morris this year is a big question mark,
06:34and we're going to see tomorrow how that looks.
06:37And the biggest thing that I like that I think bodes well for this turning around
06:41and the defense getting back to form is Greenlaw.
06:44Not because of his skill set necessarily, but he's that guy.
06:48He's that Draymond Green.
06:49He's that hit-you-in-the-mouth, step-over-you, slapping-helmets,
06:53kind of hot-boys-era throwback Niners defender that's contagious.
06:57And hopefully these young guys catch on.
07:00Because the defense has been, even though the personnel is good on paper,
07:03it's looked flat.
07:04It hasn't had an identity.
07:05It hasn't been scary like the Wittner, Willis years.
07:09You know, they've got to find that nasty again so that the defense is scary
07:13and the offense is dynamic if Kyle's going to stand a chance.
07:17Matt, thanks, man.
07:18That's a good call.
07:19I mean, I think about it also from Matt's standpoint.
07:22I think what he's talking about, he's sort of shifted the conversation to players.
07:27That's the way I think about it.
07:29Is this a big year for Kyle Shanahan?
07:31Sure.
07:32It's his 10th.
07:33And, yes, he's been with a certain group of players for a long time.
07:38How much time does Christian McCaffrey have left?
07:40Things like that.
07:41But I look at it more through some of these players we talk about.
07:44It's a bigger year for Trent Williams than it is for Kyle Shanahan, I think.
07:48It's a bigger year for Christian McCaffrey than it is for Kyle Shanahan.
07:52Same thing with Nick Bosa, I would imagine.
07:55I mean, here's the interesting thing, though.
07:57Trent Williams, and I don't even remember, where's his contract right now?
08:03Like, Trent Williams' contract, he is currently signed through.
08:11I guess he's technically under contract for two more years after this one.
08:14Right.
08:15I don't know that he has any interest in playing those.
08:18But outside of that, I feel like, and Jason LaComfort is one of these people,
08:23there's a lot of conversation that's sort of making this sound like last dance,
08:28last ride.
08:29And I'm thinking to myself, is it?
08:31I mean, Trent Williams, okay, you're 38 years old.
08:35George Kittle, three more years on your deal.
08:38Christian McCaffrey, two more years on your deal.
08:41Are you declining?
08:43Sure.
08:44Okay.
08:45Is it getting late?
08:46Are these non-guaranteed?
08:47Could you be cut?
08:48Could you get hurt?
08:50Sure.
08:50But that's kind of true every single year.
08:53Man to man, the players that we talk about that are that core group that we really want
08:59to see get over the top, I mean, I'm pretty confident that everyone not named Trent,
09:05and maybe even Trent, are going to play beyond this year.
09:10Yes, and just looking at Trent's contract, and if they decide to, you know, go ahead and give
09:15him a June 1st designation next year, the dead cap is a $29 million hit.
09:21And so I think that Trent, if you look at his contract, and I'm looking at SpotTrack right
09:25now, next year is the year where you go ahead and play that out, because if not, it's like
09:30a $51 million dead cap hit.
09:33There's a cap savings as well, but ultimately, Trent's looking at this year and next year,
09:38and then beyond that, who knows?
09:39I'm seeing a roster bonus in 2028 of $11.5 million.
09:44They probably don't let it get to that.
09:46He'll be 40.
09:47I don't know if he'll even be able to play or want to play, et cetera.
09:51But to your point, I think you're right.
09:53Like, there's no real last dance feel.
09:57Debo just came back.
09:58And if he plays as well as he did before he left, they're going to want to keep him
10:02as well.
10:03Yeah, I mean, Mike Evans is another name.
10:05Now, he's not really, like, part of that.
10:07The core, yeah.
10:08Yeah, he's not part of that group we're emotionally attached to.
10:11But those are the guys I think about where it's like, hey, you know, clock ticking.
10:15And Mike Evans already has a ring, too.
10:17So I look at him completely differently.
10:20Debo's an interesting one, sure.
10:21I don't think they're going to ask as much of him.
10:24So could he be here for longer?
10:27You're, you know, Dre Greenlaw is back on a one-year deal.
10:29There's a lot of people, a lot of things couldn't change next year.
10:33But I don't really feel like this is last hurrah by any stretch.
10:40That's not, it's just not how I view this roster from top to bottom.
10:44Agreed.
10:44And I think if you look at, you know, just the contracts and the people as well,
10:48Nick Bosa is somebody that if he can be healthy and play up to his level,
10:53why would you want to get rid of him?
10:54Because you need to replace Nick Bosa with a Nick Bosa.
10:58And I think the same goes for Kittle and Trent.
11:01Eventually, you're going to have to come up with another left tackle,
11:03whether it's through the draft or if you go out there and trade for somebody.
11:07But I don't think we're yet at that point.
11:09DP three in the city next on Willard and Dibs.
11:13How big of a year is it for Kyle Shanahan?
11:15What's up, DP three?
11:18Hey, what's up, man?
11:19Good to talk to you guys again.
11:20And to me, Kyle Shanahan has this, man.
11:23He's fine.
11:24To me, I don't feel like his job is in jeopardy at all.
11:28To me, just listen to the facts.
11:312021, Jaquan Scree-Tart drops the interception in the fourth quarter,
11:37which if he would have retained the interception, remember,
11:40we lost that game by three points.
11:42And remember, from the postseason on, it's a scrappy game.
11:45You're only going to lose by three, maybe six, maybe seven.
11:48But it's a scrappy game.
11:50You know, it's how you control the game.
11:53Jaquan Scree-Tart drops the interception.
11:55What's to say that he holds on to the interception,
11:59and we drive down, score a touchdown, score a field goal,
12:02and the whole game changes.
12:04And who's waiting for us on the AFC?
12:06Come on, man.
12:08Everybody, okay, we know Boro and company, but come on.
12:10Anybody that was coming from the NFC was going to win that Super Bowl.
12:13And that's exactly what happened with freaking, with Stafford and company.
12:18Second, 2024, Super Bowl.
12:22We're driving down, we're driving down, and I can't hate that guy
12:25because that guy takes so much load on, so much load on the freaking 49ers, man.
12:31Come on, eighth.
12:33Right around the red zone, we got McCaffrey, you know, he gets fumbled.
12:39You know, all Niner Nation was like, oh, man, all Niner.
12:42And, hey, the game was won by three points.
12:44But what's to say we scored those three points,
12:46and it changes the whole aspect of the freaking game.
12:49Or we go down for a seven, you know?
12:52My thing is this.
12:55Shanahan shouldn't have won Super Bowl already.
12:57But you know what?
12:58You know, football is football.
13:00Football, you know, you got fumbles.
13:02You got interceptions.
13:03All that sorts of things.
13:04People step up to the plate.
13:07For example, James Harrison.
13:10Steelers in Arizona.
13:12If it wasn't for that thing, if it wasn't for that freaking 100-yard run,
13:15people make plays, man, I think the game was just won by three points.
13:20The other one, Tyree, that catch.
13:23Yep.
13:23Tyree, the catch.
13:25If it wasn't for that catch, we would have had the ultimate team ever,
13:28which to me, the Patriots are the supreme team because they had to play a lot more games.
13:33Well, two more games, or three, two or three more games than the Miami Dolphins.
13:38But that catch, like, you know, it pretty much eliminated what they could have been.
13:42They would have been at the top echelon of undefeated teams to ever, like, to win it.
13:47No doubt.
13:47DP3, I mean, largely to me, thanks so much for the call.
13:50You're speaking my language.
13:51I know to some people that sounds like ifs and buts and candies and nuts.
13:56Yeah, Merry Christmas.
13:56All of that, I'll just tell you, this is the way I describe it.
13:59To me, sustained excellence and sustained deep competition are way more impressive than winning one ring.
14:06That's the way I look at it.
14:08And so there are a lot of guys out there who have one ring who then, you know, a lot
14:14of people go,
14:15OK, Sean McVay better than Kyle Shanahan.
14:17He has a ring.
14:18They're both great.
14:19McVay's awesome because he's also sustained excellence.
14:22But so is Kyle Shanahan.
14:24And I look at it largely the way DP3 does, where there are a thousand.
14:30This is the Sliding Doors movie.
14:31There are a thousand little things that could happen that could turn a good coach into a champion coach.
14:39I mean, you found out last week.
14:41You let us all know that apparently Marv Levy is still alive.
14:45Yeah, 101.
14:45All right.
14:47All right.
14:47Marv Levy is still alive.
14:50Yeah.
14:51All you got to do is kick the stupid ball through the uprights.
14:56And if you want to, like, you know, cast aspersions, he was amazing all year long.
15:02And you mentioned Gary Anderson before.
15:04Gary Anderson for the Vikings.
15:05I don't think he missed all year, you were saying.
15:07And he missed in the NFC Championship game to win that game and send Denny Green to a Super Bowl
15:13that he never went to,
15:14that the Falcons went to instead with the Dirty Birds and got their butts kicked because they weren't the better
15:18team.
15:18Right.
15:19But they ended up there anyway.
15:20These are the things that happen.
15:22And if you want to hold those against coaches, do it.
15:25I don't.
15:25I don't.
15:26Like, I don't go, hey, Marv, why did you send Scott Norwood out there for a 40-yard field goal
15:31and have him miss it?
15:32Why did you do that?
15:33If he kicks it two yards to the left, Marv Levy's a champ.
15:39And he's got a whole new reputation.
15:42I think that's weird.
15:43I just think it's weird.
15:45Right.
15:45It just is.
15:46Like, that's a weird way to make a final call on someone.
15:49And I just wish that people wouldn't go straight to the Joukowsky-Tart dropped INT so much because.
15:55Wouldn't have ended the game.
15:56Well, yes.
15:57And, you know, we all go back to the playoff game when Kyle Williams muffed not one but two punts.
16:01And, you know, the Roger Craig fumble, which ostensibly, I think, cost him two decades of not being in the
16:08Hall of Fame because of that one headline thing.
16:12And forget the fact that he was a thousand-thousand guy, the first to ever do it.
16:16But the Roger Craig fumble, Joukowsky-Tart dropped an INT.
16:20To me, that is a little bit of an oversimplification sensation.
16:25And that's one that kind of frustrates me.
16:27And I think that's fair.
16:28That's totally fair.
16:29It's very rare that one—that's why I use the Norwood example.
16:33It's rare that we look and we go, boy, if that one play goes different, then the game would have
16:38flipped.
16:38Because Tart could have picked it off, and then the Niners might have thrown a pick on the very next—
16:43Well, I don't know what the hell is going to happen next.
16:44Right.
16:44It was time on the clock.
16:45But if Norwood kicks the ball two yards further to the left, Marv Levy gets a ring.
16:51Game's over.
16:52Yeah.
16:52You win.
16:53But he didn't get it.
16:54He missed.
16:54Yeah, and come to find out, then you went up against the juggernaut Cowboys in, you know, subsequent Super Bowls
17:01where nobody was beating those jacks.
17:02They weren't the best team.
17:04Joe in San Jose is next.
17:06Hi, Joe.
17:06Thanks for calling.
17:08What's going on?
17:09What's going on, guys?
17:10What's up?
17:11Hey, there's a lot of ifs in this guy's career, right?
17:15So now let's look at it.
17:17He's going to ifs all the way up until he gets his golden goose, until he gets his—look at his
17:21dad.
17:22Look at his—his dad and him are identical.
17:24They have ego.
17:25They don't want to say, we won because the defensive coach.
17:30We won because of the defensive scheme.
17:32We won because of this guy.
17:33They want to win because of them, and that's the problem with this guy.
17:37And I'm an outsider.
17:38I'm just outside looking in.
17:40And what I see is the same thing as his pops.
17:42His pops didn't do nothing until he got John Elway.
17:45And that's the bottom line.
17:46That's what's going to happen.
17:46And then if you think Rock Purdy's anything close to John Elway, you guys are on that stuff.
17:50Have a good day.
17:52Yeah.
17:52Joe, no.
17:53I mean, no one brought that up.
17:54So, like—
17:56Mike Shanahan coached four seasons before he won the Super Bowl.
18:00Two with the Raiders, and then he took six years off.
18:03But he was nothing.
18:04Right.
18:05Until he got Elway.
18:06Actually, it wasn't even two seasons with the Raiders.
18:08It was a 7-9 and a 1-3, and Al Davis whipped out the overhead projector, and he got
18:13fired.
18:14What was Belichick before he got Brady?
18:16He was the Jets coach, and he was an assistant to Bill Parcells.
18:20Browns coach.
18:21Exactly.
18:22Whatever the hell he was.
18:22Yeah, like, I just—
18:23Thank you, Browns coach.
18:24You're right.
18:25No, I have—listen, you all get to—is Kyle Shanahan arrogant, or does he have an ego?
18:31Sure, I think that he's got a very healthy ego.
18:34I do.
18:36This concept that he wants all the credit when they win.
18:41He wants—like, he never gives credit to anybody else.
18:44He wants to go to the podium and be like, did you all just see what I did out there?
18:48I don't know where you get that.
18:51Where are you getting that?
18:53Do you see that?
18:54I do not see that.
18:56I don't either, and I don't even know—I mean, for me, he'd have to come out and, you know, say
19:01those types of words, but I think he wants to win because he's super fiercely competitive, and that's what you
19:08do when you're in that business.
19:09Like, his offense showed up at his kid's high school game two weeks ago.
19:15Some of you act like he's an a-hole, and everyone around him knows it, and he won't give any
19:19credit to the players.
19:21Then what are they doing in his kid's game?
19:23Like, this is not—
19:25Right, that's a good point.
19:25I don't know where these perceptions come from.
19:28He's not the best in a press conference.
19:31I'll give you that.
19:32Or I don't even know what that means, actually.
19:34Was Bill Belichick the best at the press conference?
19:36Oh, my God, he kicked him.
19:37He mastered the art form.
19:39It's like, Kyle doesn't like it.
19:40He doesn't like the press conference, so he can come off a little bit snooty.
19:44But does that transfer to Kyle thinks his players are pawns in his game?
19:51I don't know.
19:52I just don't, like—I don't see that.
19:54I'm not a doctor.
19:55I don't get that when I watch 49er football.
19:59And I wonder about the relative arrogance of any head coach in the National Football League.
20:04Just because Andy Reid has got that, you know, that fun mustache, and he's a bigger guy.
20:10Santa Claus.
20:11Totally.
20:11So we don't think about him being, quote, arrogant, because he's just a—he's a heavyset, kind of a Chris Farley
20:18character is what we all kind of imagine.
20:20But I would bet he's got a very well-established sense of self and how good he is at what
20:26he does.
20:26I would hope so.
20:27They all do.
20:28Yeah, I hope for a very healthy ego for everyone.
20:31I hope you love what you do and you think you're awesome at it.
20:34But I would agree with you if somebody—if their whole business does well and they do a victory lap and
20:40wave and go,
20:41did y'all see what I just did?
20:43That's no fun.
20:44But I don't see Kyle doing that.
20:45That doesn't sound like the way he talks to me.
20:48Right.
20:48That doesn't sound like this.