- 12 minutes ago
Greg Cosell of NFL Films joins Willard and Dibs to discuss the NFL's trade deadline moves, where DeForest Buckner fits in, the 49ers' matchup with the Raiders, and more.
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00:00I just love this time.
00:01I do, too.
00:02We're here.
00:03Yep.
00:03It's Wednesday.
00:05Forget Prince and all the other great halftime shows we've had.
00:09And Greg and I are old enough to remember Up With People.
00:12This is the real halftime show.
00:16That was funny.
00:17Yeah, absolutely.
00:20Go ahead, Greg.
00:21Go ahead, Greg Cosell.
00:22The problem is with the halftime shows.
00:25Now, all the people I'd like to see are probably 80 years old.
00:28So, you know, that's the way it goes.
00:29I mean, it didn't stop the league from having The Who on there a few years ago.
00:33But anyway.
00:35Yeah, that wasn't a few years ago.
00:37That was many years ago, wasn't it?
00:39I don't know how many.
00:40Like, yeah, but probably not enough.
00:43Let's put it that way.
00:44Right, right, right, right.
00:45Greg Cosell, NFL Films, joining us on the River Islands guest line.
00:49What did you think of that Niner game last week?
00:52Did I miss a Niners game?
00:54Just testing you, Greg.
00:55Just testing you.
00:56Everything is fine.
00:57But obviously, the Niners did make a move.
01:01And so, I'd love to talk about this a little bit further.
01:05The idea of DeForest Buckner now being on the Niners.
01:09And the fact that Grayson Holton, the guy that we've talked about quite a bit.
01:13Yeah.
01:14Who's been really good.
01:15I'm sure he's still going to be in there a lot.
01:17But he's sort of kind of been benched.
01:20So, like, what have you seen from him, and how does he compare to what Defoe's bringing?
01:25And I don't know.
01:26We don't know that for sure, what the division of labor, as it were, is going to be.
01:31You know, don't forget Buckner's an older player.
01:33So, you know, for all we know, Buckner could play 30 snaps a game, not 50 snaps a game.
01:38We don't know the answer to that yet.
01:41You know, I think the way Grayson Holton is played, my sense is it deserves meaningful snaps,
01:47whatever that number is.
01:48But I think he's been very good.
01:50He's got dynamic quickness off the ball.
01:52I think he showed more power than I thought watching him in college.
01:57Now, again, that could have come from an offseason of working out as well, just getting stronger.
02:02You can make players stronger.
02:04It's very difficult to make players more athletic.
02:06But you can make them stronger.
02:09So, you know, I don't think we know the answer to that, to be honest with you.
02:12I'd be hard-pressed to believe that Grayson Holton all of a sudden is going to play 12 snaps a
02:16game.
02:16Yeah, and it seems like they always have a seven- or eight-man rotation anyway.
02:20I'm just wondering, when you look at DeForest Buckner, particularly this year,
02:24what are the things that he still does at an elite level?
02:29He's still really strong in the middle of a defense.
02:32I mean, he can take on double teams.
02:33He has really strong, powerful, heavy hands, as the term is used in the business.
02:39He certainly can do that.
02:41I'm not sure he's exactly the same pass rusher that he once was, and that's part of the decision.
02:46If they don't feel he's that, it's possible in some third and longs he might not play,
02:51and they might go with Odigizu and Halton, who both have a little more juice,
02:55just natural, you know, explosiveness to their movement.
02:58So that's why I think we're uncertain as to how it'll play out.
03:02I'd love to switch over to offense with you, Greg, and also talk a little bit specifically about Jordan Watkins,
03:09and here's why.
03:09I'm just reading tea leaves.
03:11We don't know this yet, but my sense is Demarcus Robinson is back this week.
03:17Mike Evans and Devo Samuel might need some more time.
03:20That's just my sense.
03:21That's not official.
03:22But I'd love to know what it is you're seeing specifically from Jordan Watkins
03:28and his readiness to kind of step into a more consistent role.
03:32Well, I think he's played a lot because he's had to, and, you know, I think in the context of
03:38this offense,
03:39he can function fine.
03:40He did have a drop in the last game, but then he came back and, you know,
03:43just missed catching that touchdown where I think it was by an inch or two.
03:47So I think he's fine.
03:48I mean, we saw him earlier in the season catch a skinny post, you know, and run after catch.
03:54I don't think there's any problem with him.
03:56Demarcus Robinson, to me, is one of the most fascinating players.
04:00I remember when he came out of Florida, and I think there were some personal issues with him,
04:04but I remember evaluating him, and I can't remember who else was in that draft class as a receiver,
04:08but I remember thinking he was a top five receiver in that specific draft class,
04:13and obviously he wasn't drafted as such because of other issues.
04:17He's been with a number of teams, guys, but it seems like everywhere he goes, he produces.
04:22You know, there's a bunch of players like that at different positions that almost seem like they were
04:27with a different team every year, but yet every place they go, they produce.
04:30And he's just one of those guys.
04:32If he's healthy and ready to go this week, I would imagine he'll get meaningful snaps.
04:37You've got to be careful with Evans because isn't it a strained Achilles?
04:40Isn't that his issue?
04:41Yes, that's correct.
04:42You've got to be careful.
04:43You have to be careful with that because obviously if it's a torn Achilles, that probably ends his career.
04:48Yeah, no doubt, especially at this late date, and that would be devastating to what the Niners have built.
04:53I want to go back to Marcus Robinson.
04:55In this offense, what are the skills that he possesses that align with what Shanahan tries to run?
05:02I'd say one of the most important skills would be that he actually catches the football,
05:07which is a pretty good skill for a receiver, don't you think?
05:09Yeah, it's very important.
05:11Yeah, I think he's just one of those guys that understands how to fit into whatever offense he's in.
05:18Because don't forget, he was with the Rams as well.
05:20You know, he always seems to understand how to play the position as required by the offense that he's in.
05:26Wasn't it earlier in the year, I forget, the opponent where he caught the deep touchdown from Purdy?
05:30He was on a beautiful throw.
05:32I'm trying to remember who that was against.
05:34Australia against the Rams.
05:35Probably two or three.
05:36Was that against the Rams?
05:37Yeah.
05:37Yeah.
05:38So that was week one then, obviously, the game in Australia.
05:41But he just knows how to run routes, understands how to work with the quarterback.
05:45He's a professional receiver.
05:48And those guys, you can never count those guys out.
05:51Because ultimately, for a quarterback, what quarterbacks want, you know,
05:55you can talk about traits and tools all day long, about fast, all that great stuff.
05:59But he knows where to be, when to be there.
06:02That's what quarterbacks want.
06:04You know, if you're not where you're supposed to be, when you're supposed to be there,
06:07they don't throw the ball to you.
06:08Greg Cosell, NFL Films, with us as he is every Wednesday, Willard and Dibbs.
06:12Greg, Christian McCaffrey didn't practice today.
06:15It doesn't sound like they're too concerned.
06:17He said he feels great, trending in the right direction for this week.
06:22But even if they have to manage him some or if he has to miss a game,
06:25what's your evaluation of Kalon Black and his ability to maybe,
06:28even if it's moonlighting, to step into a role as a one?
06:33I think he can do that for sure.
06:35I think the style of runner he is fits the Niners.
06:38He's physical.
06:39He's strong.
06:40He gets hard yards.
06:41And by that I mean he can take a three-yard run.
06:44If it's blocked for three, he can turn it into six.
06:48You saw him in the last game have the 30-yard touchdown run,
06:51which was a beautiful countergap play, kind of blocked a little differently,
06:54which is one of the things I love, watching Kyle Shanahan's run game,
06:58the way he takes base concepts and just gets to them a little bit differently.
07:03And you have to teach all that.
07:04But I really like Kalon Black.
07:07To me, this is not a bold statement in the least,
07:10and I know they play the Raiders this week,
07:12but I like Kalon Black more than I like Ashton Gentry.
07:15Yeah, and about Ashton Gentry,
07:17we were talking about this in our show meeting before the show
07:20and before you came on.
07:21What are you seeing not only with him,
07:23but the lack of ability to run the ball by the Raiders?
07:27Yeah, I mean, you know, it's funny.
07:29Gentry, I obviously evaluated him in great detail when he came out
07:32and he had the great year at Boise State.
07:34Can't take that away from him.
07:35I thought he was a solid prospect, but not a special prospect.
07:39I thought Mike Washington,
07:41who was their feature back in their last game this past week against the Jets,
07:45he had 25 carries.
07:46I believe Gentry had two or three,
07:48although Gentry's a very good receiver
07:50and he'll be used in that way for sure.
07:52But I think Mike Washington is a better back
07:54and I think that Washington,
07:56I would think, would continue to get more carries.
07:58He's bigger, he's faster,
08:00he's probably a little more powerful.
08:03So, you know, to me, Gentry,
08:05obviously their own line is not great
08:07in terms of blocking for the run game,
08:09but, you know, that's one of the hardest things to evaluate
08:13when you evaluate each position in college.
08:15There are certain things that are hard to evaluate.
08:17And with a back, one of the things is contact balance
08:21because you can have great contact balance in college
08:24but depending on who you're playing against,
08:26that may not translate to the NFL
08:29where the players are just better
08:31and they're bigger and they're stronger.
08:32And he hasn't shown that same kind of contact balance
08:35at the NFL level.
08:37Okay, so Greg, speculation warning here.
08:41Speculation warning.
08:42Oh boy, here we go again.
08:43Here we go.
08:43But since we're on this conversation
08:46and you're such an NFL draft guy,
08:50does it make sense to you in the current landscape
08:53of the league to be drafting running backs
08:56in the top 10 like that?
09:01Well, you know...
09:03I warned you.
09:04He hates this.
09:04I warned you.
09:06You did, you did.
09:07And some people would automatically say no.
09:10And I get that.
09:11You know, I try to think all this through, guys,
09:13as you know.
09:13I'm not just an off-the-cuff responder.
09:15And there's multiple sides
09:17to a lot of these kinds of questions.
09:20You know, I think the Falcons would probably say
09:23that drafting B. John Robinson was a good idea.
09:25He wasn't drafted in the top 10,
09:27but Jameer Gibbs, I would imagine the Lions,
09:29would say it was a pretty good idea
09:31drafting him in the top 15.
09:32I think he was 14.
09:34So I think it's case by case.
09:36And then it gets down to deployment in the league.
09:38You know, how you use a, you know,
09:41deploy a player within the context of your offense.
09:43I mean, we just saw Jameer Gibbs
09:45against a really difficult offense to play against
09:47in Minnesota.
09:49The game was in Detroit,
09:50but against the Vikings have 23 for 153.
09:53I mean, it depends, you know,
09:55I think how you deploy a player.
09:57And there's always going to be pros and cons
10:00and guys who make it and guys who don't.
10:02You know, it's, you know,
10:04I don't think these questions to me,
10:06and I think that's one of the reasons I love football,
10:08and it's not a mathematical equation to me.
10:11There's multiple ways to look at this
10:14and to evaluate and to determine a player's value
10:17within a given system.
10:18And the system that the Raiders run,
10:20and I say run because they don't really run it well,
10:23but the two tight ends that they utilize are fantastic.
10:26Don't hold back now, Gibbs.
10:27Don't hold back.
10:28Don't hold back there.
10:29Come on for a bye, Greg.
10:30We're feeling pretty good here.
10:32How do the Raiders get so much efficiency
10:35out of the two tight ends?
10:37Well, that's their offense.
10:39They're different in that regard,
10:41and they're somewhat unique in the league,
10:43and you have to decide how you want to play that.
10:45Since Bowers came back week three,
10:47they played about close to 80% of their snaps
10:51in multiple tight end personnel,
10:52whether it's 12 personnel, meaning one back, two tight ends,
10:56whether it's 13 personnel, one back, three tight ends,
10:59whether it's 22 personnel, two backs, two tight ends.
11:03I mean, they play with multiple tight ends.
11:05That's who they are because Bowers is essentially
11:08a movable chess piece.
11:10He's not an attached tight end the way you think
11:13of normal conventional tight ends.
11:15He is a split-detached receiver, and he can beat safeties.
11:19He can beat corners.
11:21He can, you know, he's a receiver.
11:22And so, therefore, they rarely play out of 11 personnel,
11:27meaning one back and three wide receivers on the field,
11:30only one tight end.
11:31They don't play that way.
11:33I mean, since he's been back, okay, they've only,
11:35which is how many games?
11:37I don't believe they've had a bye yet, right?
11:38Have the Raiders had a bye?
11:39I don't think so.
11:40No, they have not.
11:41All right, so it's weeks three, four, five, six, seven, eight, right?
11:45Six games, I believe?
11:47Yeah.
11:48That Bowers has played?
11:50Yeah, because he came back week three.
11:52Correct.
11:52Week three.
11:53Six games.
11:53They've only run 24 snaps with three wide receivers on the field.
11:58And one of those games was the game they got blown out in.
12:02So, in the second half, they had to play with three wide just because they needed more receivers on the
12:07field.
12:07So, basically, if you take that game away, they've probably played with, you know, maybe three wide receivers,
12:15like ten snaps since he came back.
12:17Greg, while we're on the topic of wide receivers, and not going to ask you specifically about Brandon Iyuk,
12:25and I'm sure you're aware of the news today that he is going to try to move forward with reinstatement.
12:30The Niners certainly have sounded for a while like they've moved on.
12:34But let's talk stylistically.
12:37The style of receiver that Brandon is slash was, how needed is that for the 49ers,
12:45and how much are they missing it, if at all?
12:48Well, Brandon Iyuk, healthy and being what he once was is very, very good.
12:54I don't think anybody would argue with that.
12:56I think anybody would like to have Brandon Iyuk, you know, so I don't think that's a question.
13:02You know, we're not debating what kind of player he once was.
13:05Who knows about that?
13:07He hasn't played in a number of years, and obviously many might want to discuss his mental state.
13:12You know, that's not my area, but I think many would probably want to discuss that.
13:16So, he was a really good receiver.
13:18Any team would want that kind of receiver.
13:20So, that's not the issue.
13:22Right, but are the Niners, are they missing that?
13:25Do you feel like Mike Evans has replaced that, at least for the time being?
13:29Because, you know, with the trade deadline coming, there's a lot of this fan base that really wants them to
13:34do something at receiver,
13:36even though a lot of these guys are coming back.
13:38So, it's a little bit of a puzzle.
13:40Yeah, I mean, you know, again, I know you mentioned it's speculation, and I don't really get into that.
13:45I mean, you know, if Mike Evans is healthy, and I know that's a question, and that's a legitimate question.
13:51He's older.
13:51You know, injuries can take a little longer to heal.
13:55You know, don't forget, going into the season, they thought they'd have scribbling, too.
13:58You know, I don't know what his status is.
14:00If he's coming back this year, I guess, you know, that remains to be seen.
14:04But, you know, you could always say you're missing a really good receiver, but you're talking about the style of
14:12receiver?
14:13Of course, anybody would want that style of receiver.
14:16That's a given.
14:17You know, that's like saying, you know, in any sport, would you want a really good player?
14:21Yeah, of course you would.
14:22What about Garrett Wilson and the style of his receiving?
14:27That's not going to happen.
14:28That's that speculation stuff.
14:31We don't want to go there.
14:31I'm not asking you to speculate if.
14:34I'm just wondering about the kind of receiver he is and how that's a great receiver.
14:38I think Garrett Wilson's a great receiver.
14:40I think Garrett Wilson, you know, fits anywhere.
14:43He's a great receiver.
14:44Does he block?
14:48I don't think that's his forte, and I don't think anybody would really care about that a whole lot.
14:53I mean, you know, you can, you know, it's funny.
14:55I've had, in talking to coaches through the years, particularly when it comes to tight ends,
15:00and it's true as well with receivers.
15:03I remember a coach who I know very well for years.
15:06He was on the Kansas City Chiefs coaching staff when they drafted Tony Gonzalez, and he said,
15:11Tony came in, he couldn't block anybody, and yet he's a tight end.
15:15And they taught him how to block well enough where he could block.
15:18I mean, you can teach guys how to do that.
15:20You don't not draft a receiver because he can't block.
15:24You can teach a guy to do enough blocking in the run game because you're not, receivers aren't pancaking guys.
15:31You know, they're getting in the way of guys, you know, and you can teach guys to do that.
15:36Greg, how would you compare the season that Caleb Williams is having to the season that Brock Purdy is having?
15:43Both good.
15:45That's it?
15:47I mean, they're totally different players.
15:50Right.
15:50They're both having a really good season.
15:52Yeah, but, I mean, that's kind of what I want to know about because I still hear a lot of
15:55people say,
15:56obviously, Caleb is athletically more dynamic, but they also, I hear people say, you know,
16:02as far as the traditional pocket drop back, there's still a lot of stuff that he misses,
16:07and that's kind of Brock's strength.
16:08So, I wonder what you see.
16:11Yeah, I think that if you're truly comparing, and they're both really good players,
16:18so that needs to be understood, and I think Williams is on his way to being a great player.
16:23Obviously, what Ben Johnson is doing, and he's making clear progress, is he wants, if you're putting it in a
16:30comparison,
16:31from a comparison standpoint, he wants Williams to play, in a sense, more like Purdy in terms of pure timing
16:39and anticipation.
16:39But then Purdy can't do some of the things Williams does, just in terms of arm strength and mobility.
16:45Not that Purdy's not mobile, but he can't make the kinds of throws that Williams makes on the move,
16:52you know, just because Williams has a naturally stronger arm.
16:55So, they're different players.
16:57They're both really, really good players within the context of their offense.
17:02You know, don't forget, the Bears offense is different than the Shanahan offense.
17:05There's much more of an intermediate passing game in a Ben Johnson offense, you know,
17:11driving the ball at, you know, 18 to 24 yards on a line.
17:16Those are arm strength throws.
17:17Purdy doesn't make a lot of those throws because he's not asked to.
17:20That's not the way the offense is put together.
17:23So, they're totally different players, but they're both really, really good.
17:27Just one more in Chicago because everyone out here is now scared.
17:30How much better does Jeffrey Simmons make their defense?
17:35Well, he's the best D tackle in football, so he makes him better.
17:38And what was really interesting the other night is Dennis Allen, their defensive coordinator,
17:43who's been doing it a long time and is one of the best in the league,
17:46Dennis Allen was blitzing at a fairly high percentage, top three or four in the league percentage-wise.
17:51And then the other night, that percentage went way, way down
17:56because they lined up in a lot of five-man fronts with Jeffrey Simmons,
18:00and they got him with one-on-one matchups.
18:03So, the question is, is that going to continue?
18:06Was that just a function of who they played?
18:08We don't know the answer to that yet, but that was clearly a difference.
18:12He'd been a big blitzer, which he's always been throughout his career,
18:15and through the first until Monday night, and then he didn't because he has Jeffrey Simmons,
18:20who is, I mean, he's just a great, great player.
18:22Greg, for the Raider fans who are excited about the way this is all going,
18:27I don't know when it's going to happen, but obviously at some point,
18:30what was your draft evaluation of Fernando Mendoza?
18:33What do you think's ahead for him?
18:36I liked Mendoza.
18:37Big kid, physical, threw the ball well.
18:40You know, was in an offense that worked the RPO game as a major foundation,
18:45threw a lot outside the numbers, didn't work, didn't make a lot of throws between the numbers.
18:49They worked with him on that a lot during the preseason.
18:54You know, that's something that takes a little time to master
18:56because it just seems like there's far more people in the middle in the NFL than in college
19:01because the hash marks are closer.
19:03So that's something you've got to play to figure out.
19:05But Kirk Cousins is playing really, really good football.
19:08So unless that season falls apart, and they're 4-4,
19:12you know, I would doubt that you're going to see Mendoza anytime soon.
19:16I mean, you can't, you know, look, players in the locker room know this stuff,
19:19and Cousins is playing really good football.
19:22So, you know, you're not going to see Mendoza unless everything just starts to fall apart.
19:27Baltimore has had it fall apart, and now it's Joe Fagnano.
19:31What's your scouting report on QB3?
19:35Yeah, well, I did a little of him coming out, not a ton.
19:38And, of course, I watched the tape from this past week.
19:41And, you know, it was what you would expect, guys.
19:44I mean, everything was happening too fast.
19:46He didn't see it real well.
19:47You know, nothing you wouldn't expect when a guy goes out there who just, you know,
19:51played at UConn.
19:52And, you know, so it wasn't a surprise.
19:55And plus, you know, they, for whatever reason, their O-line,
20:00and I know they have a ton of injuries, but they've not been able to run the ball very well.
20:03I mean, they play tomorrow night, and they play Jacksonville.
20:06And Jacksonville's obviously a good team, but if they can keep the game close,
20:11and now you get to their defense, if they can keep the game close,
20:14I would imagine you'll see Derrick Henry with 30 carries.
20:17But if they can't keep the game close, it's going to be a hard assignment.
20:21Greg, I think I'm going to say this as kindly as I can,
20:25but the Raiders' defense is not good.
20:28Is that accurate?
20:29Not good.
20:30And they've not been able to stop the run very well at all.
20:33I mean, you know, you look at this game.
20:34Look what happened last week with Braylon Allen.
20:36He had about 150 yards.
20:38They've been really poor against the run,
20:40which in some ways is a little surprising,
20:42given that they signed to Kobe Dean and Quay Walker in the offseason.
20:46You know, two solid stacked linebackers.
20:49So it's been a little surprising that they've not been very good against the run.
20:53He's Greg Cosell.
20:54He's NFL Films, but he's also a hoops head.
20:56Have you had a chance to watch Yaxle yet?
21:00You know, it's funny you say that.
21:02I have not because I go to bed early during football season,
21:06but I loved him coming out of Michigan.
21:08And, you know, everybody was talking about the main guys.
21:10And there's no question that, you know,
21:13the guys that were drafted high are, you know, very good players.
21:16The guy I loved who's killing it is, and they're not a good team,
21:20but Darius Acuff is killing it.
21:21But I loved Yaxle Luxemburg.
21:25I thought he'd be a great pro.
21:27I thought his game fit the NBA really, really well.
21:31Big, fluid, smooth, can handle, can shoot.
21:34You know what I mean?
21:35Just to me, because, you know, guys like that who are 6'10", you know,
21:38those are, that's pretty tall, guys.
21:40You know, it's not like he's 6'6".
21:41He's 6'10".
21:42You got to watch him, Greg.
21:44You got to watch him.
21:45You got to check him out.
21:46I guess the other night, not the most recent game,
21:48but I guess he had 37 a couple nights ago, right?
21:51Steph sat out, and he scored 37, and they won the game.
21:54There you go.
21:55And, by the way, that Curry guy is still pretty good.
21:57Not bad, yeah.
21:58He shoots it sometimes.
21:59It goes in, Greg.
22:01I know.
22:01And sometimes he even shoots it, like, within 30 feet, you know.
22:05Sometimes.
22:05Sometimes.
22:06But he doesn't even need to get that close.
22:08No.
22:08Doesn't really enjoy it.
22:10Not as much as we enjoy this.
22:11Greg, you're the best, and we'll talk to you next week.
22:15All right, guys.
22:15Appreciate it.
22:16Thanks so much.
22:17Love it.
22:17Love it.
22:17Greg Cosell, NFL Films, right here on Willard and Dibs.