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00:00It's not a given. I just don't believe that Deshaun Watson is going to play well in the
00:05first couple of weeks. And then eventually, not even eventually, I think of that third week coming
00:09home, it's going to be like, hey, it's time to make that change. Because if I have no faith that
00:15he's going to play well on the road, I don't. I don't think he plays well at home, on the
00:20road,
00:20on a train, on a plane, in a barn, on a car. It doesn't matter. I don't think he's going
00:27to play
00:27very well anywhere he plays. Coming in hot is a full week from now. Well, a full business week
00:32from now. If I don't think he's going to play very well on the road, I can't imagine he's going
00:38to
00:38come back at home, hear a bunch of people giving him hell after an 0-2 start, or even a
00:441-1 start
00:45where they win in spite of him, and then go out there and perform at a high level. I just
00:49don't.
00:51And because of that, I presume that he, that Shador Sanders will play week three. Now, I'm glad
00:58Owen has me on the record, because I'm not just saying, well, no matter what. Like, if he goes out
01:02there and he throws three touchdowns each game, is it because somebody around here has been saying,
01:06like, basically, no matter what, that... Well, it's just, it's a scenario they could see happening,
01:11which I get that, but I just, I understand that. I also don't think now, because Dylan Gabriel's on
01:17this injured reserve list, and so it's four weeks guaranteed that he'll be out. Yes. I don't
01:22know how Todd could go, okay, you're out, Deshaun, now you're the backup. I guess he would do that,
01:29but you can't go, it's Shador and Talon Green, right? Like, that can't, and that might end up
01:35being a world that we live in, you know, something could happen to Deshaun, and then we're just stuck
01:41with Shador and Talon, which is not, obviously, as a coach, you would never want to have that scenario
01:47where it's a second-year guy who, you know, people are out on, and a rookie who has shown
01:52one flash of incredible athleticism, but not so much as a quarterback. I looked, just real quick,
01:592025 last year, first quarterback benched was Russell Wilson, that was ahead of week four,
02:04obviously, for Jackson Dart. The year before, looks like Bryce Young, following an 0-2 start,
02:11was benched, so that's two weeks, so there's some precedence there, precedent there, and then
02:15Mack Jones in 2023 was benched in a blowout loss in week four, and then they kind of went
02:20back and forth, him and Bailey Zappi, I think it was that year, so. Yeah, so they usually give you
02:24about a month. But, I mean, not everybody even gets that, so it is something that teams are willing
02:32to do, you know, earlier and earlier. I don't remember this when I was young. I don't remember
02:37quarterbacks getting benched. And I understand that, like, Todd has to, he can't be coaching for
02:43his life already, right? He's not even coached an actual NFL game yet. He's coached a couple
02:47preseason games, but. Oh, that's a totally different conversation. But can you, can you
02:53treat every single week like it's life or death? He's, he's a special scenario. He's not a 42-year-old
03:00first-time NFL head coach. True. Oh, but there is no expectation for playoffs, so does that give him
03:05more of a buffer? Does that give him some leniency? The question is. You mean to take chances?
03:10But here's the thing about the leniency, because I know that common sense would dictate, like,
03:17hey, we all thought going into this, hey, a tie would go to Shador, or something like
03:20it. And even though the reports have been, no, Deshaun's actually been better, it has not
03:26been like, he's way better. Nobody has said that. We haven't found one person, even.
03:31Well, there isn't a tie. The tie, there's no tie. It's, it's, it's Deshaun Watson. Well,
03:35that's what we've heard from inside the building. Sure, but it hasn't been by a mile.
03:39No. No. It has not been like, oh, this has been undeniable, or anything like that.
03:43But there's been a clear difference between the two. So, here's the thing, though. You
03:47brought up, you brought up Munkin and what the leash is going to be, but we can all agree
03:53if they have to pull the plug after two weeks on Watson, it is just not going to look good,
03:59especially if. No doubt. Especially if it was Jimmy or Andrew going, are you sure? And
04:05Todd Munkin's like, guys, trust me on this. Yeah, but if they go out there and they win
04:08games with Shador, you can't just fire the coach for winning football games. No, it'll
04:12just look miserable for Todd. It'll be like, what was he? It won't look good. What was
04:15he doing? What was he looking at? He was supposed to have the benefit of all these years' experience,
04:20and he's been with these guys, and he didn't do publicly the trust me like Hugh Jackson did
04:25back in the day, but has he done it behind the scenes? I don't know. Well, going back to
04:29what Owen had said, because Owen was like, well, he's not 42 years old. Do you mean like
04:3242-year-old like he's? I'm just saying, and Todd's even brought up, he knows this is like
04:36basically his only chance to be an NFL head coach. I think this is his last chance as
04:39a coach in football. I think he'll just retire after this. Probably. I mean, I don't know.
04:44Maybe he gets, maybe, you know, maybe somebody needs a college. I mean, there'd be no reason
04:49why a college wouldn't say, hey, we need an OC down here. Oh, certainly. I mean, if he was
04:53just having fun with it. If it was me and I'm 60 and I've gotten my payday at least, like
04:57we're probably riding off into the sunset if it doesn't work. Because if you're Todd Munkin and
05:02just hearing him and talking to him a little bit, it's like, if you think that he's going to go
05:05out
05:06and be a second row guy with like, like, like Alabama had the second row of analysts who
05:11were kind of like under the table because they were getting paid from their old jobs.
05:14Yeah, they were making $1 on the contract. Exactly. Like, I don't think he's going to go
05:17grind it out on his leather ass and be a second row guy for like a Ryan Day or anything
05:22like
05:23that. It used to be Nick Saban. Like, he's not going to do that at 60 years old. I think
05:27he would just. But there's one thing he's proven to me is like, that guy loves football and
05:29he's going to be around it however he can be around it. That's a good point too. Now, he, if
05:33he wants to
05:33be like a special assistant analyst, whatever from like a, like a, a consultant kind of thing,
05:39then fine. But like, I just don't think he's going to hit the recruiting trail and do, I'd
05:43just be very surprised if he did after this. So I'm not trying to plan out his life after
05:48the Browns. I want him to be successful with the Browns, but what you guys are saying, there's
05:51no doubt about it. Like if you have two terrible weeks of football and Shador Sanders does go
05:56out there and play really, really well, we can look back on this kind of like the Romeo
06:00Cronell scenario. Cause Romeo Cronell is as good a football coach as he is. He's a great
06:05defensive football coach. I'm not trying to be nasty about Romeo Cronell whatsoever, but
06:09let's call it what it is. Anybody with any recollection or who was alive then knows that
06:13he got very, very lucky that year where he had benched Charlie Fry, traded Charlie Fry
06:18and Derek Anderson took them as far as they did. Can we not all agree with that? That's like
06:23part of that. Like, yeah, you know what you're doing defensively. You're not a bad football
06:26coach, but you know, you, you know, damn well, you got lucky with a quarterback. He
06:30was able to do that after you went through all that and benched the guy in the first
06:33game of the season. Like that to me, while I was a fan and didn't know any better back
06:39then, that's a red flag in the grand scheme of things. And so, yeah, I would have to have
06:44that in the back of our mind. If we're celebrating wins with Shador Sanders, that'd be great, but
06:48when's the shoe going to drop? That has to be in the back of your mind. Now that all being
06:52pointed out, what Owen says is probably right. I don't think that they have it in their
06:56heads for two weeks. I think a lot of us are just assuming in two weeks into the
07:01season, considering what we've seen from the starter that, yeah, naturally that is
07:05a point where you come back home and you played Deshaun, what would play Shador
07:08Sanders. And I think they've, they've shown you that they're going to stick with him
07:12by the way that they've stuck with him through, I mean, five years going on. If
07:16you're going to go through all that you went through after the bills game, you're
07:21going to stick with him. What do you think? The only thing is though, guys, we did not
07:26totally anticipate what a disastrous just day in the life of Deshaun Watson and Cleveland
07:32Browns fans that that one game was going to be that one day. We just thought he'd go
07:36out there. We knew he'd get some booze, but we thought, all right, he's going up against
07:40third stringers. Yeah. He'll move the football and get out of Dodge or whatever. And instead
07:45it was awful on the field. And then you could argue it was even worse afterwards. And that's
07:50the thing. How did the first two weeks go when it comes to Watson? And he is kind of,
07:55believe it or not, he is kind of a national storyline. Like there are a bunch of people
07:59ready to pounce on him. Oh yeah. You know, Sam Monson, every, every step of the way, Colin
08:04Coward, like you go run the list of, of people that have talked about it. Dan Orlovsky, like
08:09they are ready to pounce on the Brown situation when normally the Browns would be kind of cloaked
08:14in anonymity. They were going to be an afterthought to start the year. There are a bunch of people
08:18hoping that Deshaun plays poorly. And the minute he does, holy cow, they're going to use it
08:23as a leap. Everybody's going to go after the Browns and go, how did you determine he was the
08:27best guy for this job? No, I got, I got two former NFLers, one, a former quarterback who says
08:32the same thing on NFL live. First one is Jason McCourty. He says that this does, this could very
08:39well set Shador up for a good opportunity. From the outside looking in, you watched the preseason
08:44games. And for me, I said, Hey, Shador should be the guy because he's younger. And there's more
08:48upside from what you've seen so far with this quarterback battle. But the more I listen to
08:53Todd Munkin, you have to understand, I think from a Cleveland Browns perspective, they've looked at
08:58this and he said it from the very beginning. They thought Deshaun Watson had a leg up. I think
09:03they're trying to play the long game here and they see the veteran quarterback knowing they have two
09:07games starting out on the roll, start Deshaun Watson, see what he can do within this office.
09:13I think it may set Shador Sanders up for a very good opportunity when he does get inserted in the
09:19lineup at some point throughout the course of the season, he gets to see a veteran run this off and
09:23to see the things that he's doing correctly and the things that he's making mistakes on and seeing
09:27if that can build off of them. Remember Shador is still a late round draft pick. And I think this
09:31speaks to volumes of potentially trying to develop him and not just throwing him out there. That's my
09:36positive spin on it. I got to do something because when we look from the outside in, it's like Shador
09:41Sanders should be the guy. Why aren't we all watching it? So I don't know. That's the best
09:44I can do there. No, there's a clear difference between the way the NFL thinks of him and then
09:49the way that the fans think of him. So what he just says, like, I think a lot of us
09:52just want
09:53to see Shador play because he doesn't, he doesn't remind us of all the other terrible things that
10:00happened with the other guy that we talk about with when it comes to Deshaun Watson. Everything
10:04has been, most of it has been negative. So I understand totally where Jason McCourty's coming
10:09from. And if it does do its job, like it's supposed to, you can learn what to do and certainly
10:15what
10:15not to do. Even if a veteran quarterback's playing in front of you and he isn't very good. Let's see
10:19what Chase Daniel, the former quarterback, the longtime backup in the NFL had to say about it
10:24himself on NFL live. When you watch the film, Deshaun Watson doesn't take chances. He's a
10:29dink and dunk type guy, accuracy, whatever. They don't take shots down the field. I'm going to say,
10:34no, they didn't get it right. I mean, I was appalled when I heard the press conference among other
10:37things. And I really disliked everything about Deshaun Watson going into that and what, what
10:41had happened. But I think this is the best case scenario for Shador. I think it was out of
10:45Munkin's hands. I do think that there's no pressure on Shador to come in right away and have to win
10:49a
10:49bunch of games. Look, you can't go from Shador to Deshaun. You can go from Deshaun to Shador.
10:56And then if Shador comes in and plays and learns, like I was a backup quarterback, you're learning,
11:00you're watching, you're understanding how Deshaun does things. Maybe you do some of those things.
11:03Maybe you don't do some of those things. I think it sets Shador up in the longterm to be
11:07successful. It would be probably be better for his success. Like I didn't think it was the best
11:12thing possible. Neither did you, but we made the argument the entire time. It could end up being
11:16a good thing for Shador as long as they take it the right way. Now, if you put your head
11:20down,
11:20I don't think you will, but if you put your head down, you don't learn anything. Or if it's woe
11:23is me,
11:24you're going to have a problem on your hands, which may be part of the reason why you do what
11:27you do
11:28with your holding on to all your other quarterbacks there, because you got to have people that you trust. So
11:31you're trying to fill out this role here where I think a lot of people are thinking big picture
11:36for this football team, 27, 28 beyond quarterback, the whole deal. But I think where a lot of folks
11:42are, are, are not seeing it is exactly what Todd Munkin might be trying to think of it,
11:47where he's trying to win every single possible game he can now, because there is no tomorrow for
11:50him, no matter what. It does. It does seem that way. I don't want to get carried away for a
11:56team
11:56that on paper is only supposed to win, you know, handful of games at most. So I don't want to
12:02go
12:02crazy when it comes to that for Todd Munkin. We'll say like, if, if, if he gets anything,
12:07even if they're a losing football team, but they end up being a better offense than they were last
12:12year, that'll go a long way for Todd. It will. If you think the team's going to win a bunch
12:16of games,
12:17then I'd like to hear why. But if you'd like, if you think the team's going to win a bunch
12:21of games,
12:21this really isn't for you. If you don't think they're going to win a lot of games,
12:27there's a couple of different theories that are kind of clanging around in my head. And I kind of
12:31want to throw it by you guys. Like, Owen had brought it up. Owen's probably right. You're
12:35probably looking at a month of Deshaun Watson. Now, if he's out there, just terrible against
12:42Jacksonville and terrible against Tampa, I'm going to be pounding on the table. That camera over
12:47there is going to be shaken to get rid of Deshaun Watson. Do you think that we could get a
12:51month of
12:51him? I do as long as he doesn't look. The last time we saw him, we all know how bad
12:59it looked.
13:00If it looks like that for two games, they're going to replace him. They're not going to keep
13:06him at that point. I would hope so. How confident are you in that statement?
13:11Well, so this is what I'm trying to think of. There's almost no benefit of the doubt. I'll say
13:16devil's advocate is a better way to put this. Yeah, because I'm with you.
13:20What did they not run in that game? They didn't run any RPOs. Correct. There was no
13:24and it's third stringers, right? Old Deshaun Watson. Had he had been in that situation in
13:292019? Yeah, I think he would have sliced and diced them and look like one of the best quarterbacks
13:34that's gone. He doesn't have that confidence level. But is there a is there a universe where
13:42it's going to be all safe? It's going to be all bootlegs, you know, fairly obvious stuff
13:49and then RPO stuff to use his legs of which they're not going to protect him like Kevin
13:54Stefanski did when he first got there because they want to keep him from injury.
13:57And he still got injured. So is is there a chance that look that went awry the way it
14:04did because partially he got mentally fried. That doesn't bode well for the season. No,
14:09it doesn't. But that the fans that were there were there to boo him. That's why they were
14:14there. Yeah. Looking back. That's why they bought those tickets. The home opener. That's
14:18not why fans are going to be there. You got a few theories. Yeah, but it could be a an
14:21offs an
14:22offshoot of why they were there. Well, but what if they're okay, roll your eyes. Nobody.
14:26Yeah, nobody. What if they're 2-0? What if they're 1-1 and he's played well? You're right.
14:29You're not going to have people going to the game just to boo him or even if they are,
14:33they'll get drowned out by a bigger fan base. That's if he plays decently. What are you
14:39thinking there, Owen? It sucks because I don't want him to be the quarterback anyway, but he
14:44is. So here we are, right? I think I just don't see a way that it
14:54would go. You get two weeks and then we're pulling the rug out, right? I don't care how it
14:59goes. There'll be enough excuses for why he didn't perform a certain way for two weeks.
15:07We don't know he's a competent NFL coach yet. Right. You're correct. We're living in a lot of
15:14speculation right now. All right. So let's do it this way. I got some theories to speculate about.
15:20That's okay. I might've found an answer for one of yours. For one of my speculations? We talked
15:26about it off the air. I'd like to see if you bring it up here and if you do. Oh,
15:29I, well,
15:29I'm not, it's not a gotcha. It's a, it actually might help you, but well, I, so I layer out.
15:36I'm
15:37remembering some things here because we never thought we'd see Deshaun Watson again. Right. I'm
15:42debating on what I want to do. This told me we would miss miss meant we're not going to see
15:47him
15:47anymore. And then they went, Oh, he gets a second at bat. All right, here we go. Cause I want
15:51it.
15:51I kind of want to wait until nine Oh one, but you know what? You guys are going to work.
15:54I'm
15:54going to give you something here. All right. We ready? Here we go. Theory of the first,
15:59Deshaun Watson plays the first two weeks until Shador Sanders plays week two, week three. Okay.
16:03Probably let's be honest. Probably unlikely. All right. Then there's another theory. Now this
16:10is the theory we brought up off the air. Stay with me. Do not go changing. All right. How long
16:18is Dylan Gabriel? Four weeks. Well, if you were mad at Deshaun, or if you were mad at Todd Munkin
16:23before, what if it's to Deshaun Watson to Dylan Gabriel instead of Shador Sanders? People lose
16:32their mind. They would lose their mind. They certainly would. However, let me share another
16:37theory. Go ahead. Dylan's up for how long? Four weeks. You said a month for Deshaun Watson. Yep.
16:45You said that Deshaun Watson's in his own head. Remember look like it to me. We never thought
16:50we would see Deshaun Watson again. And you've brought up the, I mean, plenty of people brought
16:55up the insurance. Could there be something signed where he goes away last year? You said, and I, I mean,
17:01I saw him working out now. I think there's a difference between being able to work out
17:06and being put on an NFL football field, running for your life during a season. But either way,
17:11what if he starts the first four games? We've seen this before. What are you guys thinking
17:18about the back injury quote unquote with Dylan Gabriel? What's the percentage of fans who
17:22are kind of given an aside? I think Deshaun can get that same back injury. That's where I'm
17:27at. That's where I'm at. I think that same MRI machine can fire up. Let's not act stupid
17:32here. And I can't, there's nothing to sit there and prove. I'm not going to turn into
17:37Pablo Torre over here. And in fact, honestly, I don't want to, but you could see a scenario
17:42where Deshaun plays the first four games and they go, whatever this is needs to stop. And
17:49that's it. And by that time, Dylan Gabriel is there and go, okay, Dylan knows the offense.
17:53Dylan knows where the pieces he knows in the words of tool, where the pieces fit. Let's
17:57start your door. Yeah. He becomes, and then by the time should or either takes off great
18:03or if he struggles, then Dylan Gabriel can come in to finish out the season. And you got
18:08your three guys. You're not saying going from Deshaun to Dylan and skipping. Exactly.
18:14I think that might be a more likely scenario. You asked during the break about, well, doesn't
18:19that just open his practice window and you're correct, but it's 21 days. So once, once they
18:25bring him off of that reserve list, he has 21 days. That doesn't mean that he has to take
18:29the full 21 days. He could take one day and be back, you know, active and playing so he
18:35can play week five, but, and it's interesting that week four is the Thursday night game.
18:41So he can be, it's after your fourth game on Friday, he could be activated.
18:47And then he could technically play that next Sunday, the next week, instead of it being
18:52on Tuesday or Wednesday, whatever, after the day off, he'd have that whole weekend to be
18:57back with the team. I mean, he can obviously, you know, be in the facilities and things like
19:02that, but be back on a practice field in the team facility on Friday.
19:06Cause they could look at it and go, Hey, we gave you a crack at it. You're broken.
19:12Sign the agreement.
19:13Hey, Deshaun, you gotta go get that back looked at and go, Oh, I think my back's fine.
19:17No, it's not.
19:17Well, he would have also take a look.
19:19He would have also just the, we've seen it. He's just taken so many hits anyway.
19:23So we'll also have four weeks of hits. We'll have, you know, him attempting to take off
19:29and run. And we know for a guy who hasn't done that and run at full speed in a long
19:33time,
19:34what is that going to look like once he has to do that?
19:35And is it going to be the, the, you know, Peyton was actually very good at not getting
19:41hit and taking off a little bit. And the homes does it where it's a step up and get to
19:45it.
19:46Deshaun before was more of a, let me find the opening. I don't care if the openings out
19:49wide out to the left or in the middle or wherever, he's not going to be able to do that
19:53stuff anymore.
19:54At least anything that he's shown me so far, it says that he could be the scrambly type guy
20:00that waits for something to open for him. And if he can't do that, then he is the backs
20:05probably not just a mythical thing. It's probably an actuality.
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