Building influence: Paul Gigliotti on leadership, innovation and mortgage’s future

Name: Building influence: Paul Gigliotti on leadership, innovation and mortgage’s future
Uploaded: 2026-08-20T08:00:44+00:00
Duration: 46 min 49 s
Channel: HousingWire

00:00Most of this industry treats policy like background noise.

00:03Today's guest thinks that's a mistake.

00:06Paul Gelati is the CEO of the California MBA.

00:09Before that, he spent 20 years operating, running lending shops, and building technology.

00:13Now he sits at the table where the rules get written.

00:16We trace his road through the industry, get into what road to housing actually changes for originators,

00:21and look at how California is rethinking disaster relief for an era when the disasters keep coming.

00:27Stick around to the end.

00:28Paul and I have an announcement about what's next.

00:41All right, Paul, thank you for joining me.

00:43Absolutely.

00:44I'm so looking forward to this conversation.

00:47Me too.

00:47I feel like it's been a long time coming.

00:49We haven't known each other really been a handful of months, it feels like.

00:54But yeah, I feel like we're fast friends at this point.

00:57Yeah, National Advocacy is when we had, I will never forget, you had a gin and tonic waiting for me

01:03at the bar.

01:04And I was like, well, this is my new BFF.

01:06This is amazing.

01:08For sure.

01:09All right, well, look, let's dive into it because we got a lot of talk about today.

01:12I want to kind of explore a bit of your background and then lead into some current regulatory issues I'd

01:20like to get your perspective on.

01:21And then we've got an announcement that I'm looking forward to sharing with the audience.

01:27And yeah, let's just let's get into it.

01:29You ready?

01:29I'm ready, my friend.

01:31Okay, so everybody in the industry, it's kind of a cliche that they just, everybody has their own unique journey,

01:37how they fell into the industry.

01:40But, you know, nobody, that's because nobody really chooses mortgage on purpose most of the time.

01:45So what's your, what's your story?

01:47How did you get into the industry initially?

01:49You know, that's a, that's a great question.

01:51I was working in finance.

01:55My background started, I started, you know, as a, as an adult professional in finance.

02:02I was at a school, a private university, and I was running the accounting department.

02:07Before that, I had been in fashion for accounting.

02:10And I was, you know, in one of those spaces where I was like, man, I wish I could make

02:16more money.

02:16You know, I was, I was reaching like the pinnacle portion of my career as a director of finance and

02:23someone that didn't necessarily really love school.

02:26So I wasn't so interested in going back and becoming a CPA or whatever.

02:30And I was dating this guy and he had the same age as me, already owned a house, had these

02:36great cars.

02:37And he was always talking about what he was doing for, for work.

02:40And he was a mortgage originator.

02:41He was a branch manager back in the day, net branch.

02:45So I'm aging myself a tad bit.

02:47And he looked at me and said, you know, you've got a great personality.

02:51Everybody really likes you.

02:52You understand financing, sell mortgages.

02:55And, you know, what's really funny, Zeb, is I come from a, I'll say my lineage, a long line of

03:01my family members are all in sales.

03:03It's kind of like a, a gene, if you will.

03:06You know, my dad, my brothers and sisters.

03:09And I always was very afraid of sales.

03:12I was always afraid of that concept.

03:14Um, but I figured I'm young and jumped in.

03:18And so I started in the industry in origination.

03:22Um, that, that's how I started.

03:25What terrified you about, uh, sales?

03:27I was, I have a similar, I mean, I have a similar perspective growing up about sales, uh, as well.

03:31It's something that scared me.

03:33What was it?

03:34What about it scared you?

03:35Well, it was twofold.

03:36So first and foremost, uh, I think what automatically came to my mind was, uh, how you earned your income.

03:43Like I was afraid of most of my income being based off of other people's decisions.

03:48And I didn't understand what it was to build a strong pipeline, you know, and to ensure that the pipeline

03:55was always, you know, moving and full.

03:57So I didn't have that full perspective.

04:00So that was one second.

04:02I didn't think I had the personality for sales.

04:05Uh, I didn't think I was outgoing enough.

04:07I didn't think I had the ability to talk, um, to, you know, to, to share my thoughts and ideas

04:14on how a product could support an individual or an organization, you know?

04:20Um, so I just didn't think it was a good personality match at the time.

04:24I really felt that I was much more of an operator like function, you know, you do this task, you

04:31do the next task, you do the next, next task.

04:34Um, and so that's how I jumped in.

04:36I was actually Freedom Mortgage's first net branch.

04:39I was their first experience, uh, on the West coast, uh, you know, spent some time with Stan and, you

04:46know, the original crew, uh, the OG, uh, Freedom Mortgage.

04:50Um, so it was a great experience, um, being able to understand borrower need and how it was being delivered

05:00to them.

05:01And this was back in a different time in lending.

05:04And this is back in, I'm aging myself a tad bit in 2005, 2006 is when I jumped into, uh,

05:12the industry.

05:13Um, and then I kind of went through, uh, you know, something that you, somebody might say, I kind of

05:19bobbed and weaved for a hot second.

05:21Right. Right. Right after that, um, I went back into finance, uh, and then I had a brief stint at

05:28Cisco systems.

05:29Um, and I'll tell you that brief stint at Cisco systems, uh, was one of the, the pinnacles of my

05:37career.

05:37Um, I was working in the investor relations department.

05:40Uh, I was the director of operations for the investor relations department.

05:45So I had a lot of coordinating between public relations, uh, analyst relations and investor relations.

05:51And it was Zeb, it was the most amazing experience.

05:55This job was, I learned so much about, uh, people skill.

06:00Um, I learned what it takes to run a public company and the wise behind that.

06:05Um, and I really found love for understanding that technology, uh, I would say, actually, I would say it fueled

06:15me to understand that technology is not solo, right?

06:22It's not about the technology by itself.

06:25That's not, that's not what it is.

06:27The, the, the vehicle behind technology is the innovation, uh, the communication and the scalability.

06:35Of technology.

06:37Um, and that's where I really started to understand.

06:41You can look at any industry.

06:44You can participate in any industry with the baseline of leadership, culture, and innovation.

06:50And that, that's kind of where I had the, that aha moment.

06:54Um, so kind of really helped shape who I am as an individual professionally, and maybe personally, uh, that experience

07:02at Cisco systems brief, but it was, it was a pretty.

07:05It was an amazing experience.

07:07It was funny.

07:07I, uh, you were talking about sales and your perception of sales, which is growing up was very similar to

07:13my, my, my dad worked at a refinery.

07:16All the men in my family worked at a, uh, at a refiner refineries, a very kind of blue collar.

07:20And almost, uh, my, most of my life, I had this kind of, uh, cartoonish version of what a salesman

07:27was, uh, like, uh, you know, like the used car salesman, a guy that doesn't really, that doesn't work.

07:33He, you know, he treats people with his words and then, and then everybody else works.

07:39Uh, and so, um, whenever I first became, uh, an originator, the, the, the guy that, uh, that recruited me,

07:46my friend, he, I, I got, I got my license and I'd already, I was working at his branch, uh,

07:52kind of as a, as a processor going through paper day files, going through.

07:56It was a broker going through and stacking files and then shipping them off, learning kind of from, from the,

08:02from the back end.

08:03And I, after I got my license, he took me out for, uh, uh, a beer and, you know, this

08:09is what we're going to be doing moving forward.

08:11And it was at, during that conversation that it was relayed to me that you actually had to be a

08:16salesman.

08:17I, I didn't, I swear to God, I, cause he never, I didn't know that loans weren't presented to you.

08:24You know what I mean, you had to go out and be great.

08:27I had no idea.

08:29And it was this big, you know, he was like, I said, he wanted to congratulate me and this is

08:33what we're going to do.

08:33We're going to set you up.

08:34And I was like, oh shit, I am not, this is not for me because I'm not a sales, uh,

08:39guy.

08:40So I, it was, I, I had to learn sales kind of through, I'm starting immediately and understand what it

08:46actually is as a, you know, as a, as a craft, really something that is not this characterized cartoonish version

08:52of what I had thought it was.

08:53Um, but you're the, the technology part though, when you were talking about that, how important is, uh, innovation rather.

09:00Can we see a lot of this in the industry, uh, where, you know, uh, purpose married with innovation, right.

09:06Is, is what's really, what really leads to impact because I, again, I'm sure that you've seen this over and

09:11over again.

09:11I have countless times with vendors and, you know, proprietary technology at my previous mortgage company that they tried to

09:18make where it's like, it's great that something can be done.

09:22But that doesn't mean that it needs to be done, right?

09:25Like how, how, how do you feel about purpose guiding the, the direction of innovation and how important that is

09:31and what you see in this business specifically?

09:33Well, that's a really interesting question.

09:36It, you know, innovation should be purpose driven, right?

09:39Like there should be a reason or a need for the innovation.

09:42However, though, I also think that, um, individuals that educate themselves, that keep an open ear, uh, and eyes open

09:52and surround themselves in, with, in the right environment, uh, with the right, uh, you know, peers, um, will inherently

10:00always want to innovate.

10:02Right.

10:02Because really at the end of the day, what innovation is, is taking something that is one way in making

10:09it better.

10:09So I even look at myself personality trait wise, I'm constantly innovating myself.

10:14If I'm learning from my husband or my kids or you, or, you know, others in the industry or other

10:21friends, right?

10:22I'm, I'm constantly listening.

10:24So that that's an aspect of innovation where you're taking a thought process or an actual physical process and making

10:33it better.

10:33Now, when we talk about the industry, when we talk about workload, when we talk about actual function and task,

10:40we can take the concept, or I feel like we can take the concept, or maybe I should say we

10:45should take the concept of innovation.

10:48And we can apply different tools, mostly technology to innovate that workflow.

10:55I don't know if that answers your question or not, but I think that, you know, it's, it's funny when

11:00I, when I look at innovation, I'll even look at, you know, the way I do my yard work, like

11:06innovate, you know, a new way to do it.

11:08So example, I have this insane property with a ton of land, a lot of it's landscaped, a lot of

11:14it's not.

11:15And what I was doing for the first two years on the property is, is right before spring, I was

11:20getting out there and busting my rear end and weeding and, you know, making everything great.

11:25And then I found that I had to do it like three more times throughout the year.

11:28And this year, what I tried to do is I let it go a little longer.

11:33Like I just didn't really touch it until like mid June.

11:37And then I went through like a big cleanup and I'm going to do one more big cleanup.

11:41So I'm trying to innovate the way that I, that I approach the yard work, right.

11:45With a different, a different mindset, a different way of looking at it.

11:50So it's an interesting topic of conversation because I think when you look at something with a whole self approach

11:59and you put yourself in the position of, I want to be authentic to who I am.

12:06At work and at home, you can take a concept like alignment concept, like innovation and apply it to, to

12:15your whole self.

12:16Yeah.

12:17Yeah.

12:18I'm a big on, uh, on play as well, which I mean, most people that, that know me know this

12:24about me, but I generally kind of come across as a little more grumpy than I am and that I

12:29am in, in, in, in reality.

12:30So when I talk about play, I don't seem, I guess, like the person that would think about engaging the

12:35world in play, but that, that, that reminds me of, uh, what, what you're talking about, where you, uh, you

12:42know, look at any given number of problems and figure out a way to approach it with this, like a,

12:47this mindset of, of play engaging to figure out problems.

12:52But, um, uh, like not, not so much like a task driven, uh, perspective.

12:57Right.

12:57So, uh, we, we, we're going off on a tangent when it's not even what even I had you here

13:02to say, let's go.

13:02I can talk to you forever about this stuff.

13:04So, um, let's go back to California MBA.

13:07What led you to the, uh, CMBA?

13:10Oh, this is a great story and I'll, I'll make it as short as possible.

13:13So after I left Cisco systems, a buddy of mine called me up and he was like, Hey, I've got

13:18this mortgage brokerage company.

13:20And it was right around Dodd Frank, uh, Robert Valenoweth at West coast mortgage group.

13:24And it was right around Dodd Frank.

13:26He called me up and said, I don't want to be a broker anymore.

13:28I want to be a lender.

13:29I don't want to just be in California.

13:30I want to go nationwide.

13:32I want to do direct to agency.

13:34I want the whole thing.

13:35And I want you to come and run it with me.

13:37I want you to be my business partner.

13:39Um, and so like a lot of the people listening to this conversation and, you know, people that we both

13:45know industry sucked me back in.

13:47I just couldn't stay away.

13:48And I, I jumped on that chance.

13:50I jumped on that opportunity to be an entrepreneur and probably about a year and a half later, right after

13:56our son Cooper was, uh, we call it, we say Cooper came to town right after Cooper was born.

14:01Um, Susan Malazzo popped into our office and said, you are one of the only IMBs in Sacramento that are

14:09not a part of the California MBA.

14:11Why is that?

14:12I want you to be a member at the time she was the CEO of the California MBA and, um,

14:18my business partner and I said, all right, we'll join.

14:20Um, and Susan looted me into the technology committee because I'd just come over from Cisco systems and, you know,

14:27tech was just hitting our industry really hard.

14:29POSs were out there, new LOSs were coming to town.

14:33And so she figured, you know, I'd be, I'd be a good shoo-in in that committee because I have

14:37a tech background and understand mortgage lending as well.

14:40Um, built this company in West coast mortgage group up to what it is or was, you know, direct to

14:46agency.

14:47I hit all my markers.

14:48I hit all my goals and I decided it was time for me to move on to more executive position.

14:53And I took a position as a COO of pinnacle home loans.

14:57So as soon as I took that position, um, I obviously brought, you know, the California MBA or pinnacle to

15:04the California MBA.

15:05And Susan asked, uh, if I would like to be a board member of her association.

15:10Um, and I was really excited about that.

15:13Um, I had no idea what the California MBA had done at that point in time.

15:17I didn't understand the importance of advocacy and legislation.

15:20Um, so I took the board position, um, and I became a, a very active board member.

15:27Hosted the, uh, mortgage innovators conference for a couple of years with Margaret at new res and then with KP.

15:34And, uh, after that, I got a job.

15:37I'm coming, I'm coming to my answer.

15:39I got a job as the chief growth officer at prudent AI.

15:43And, um, Susan Malazzo announced to the board that she was, you know, going to put together a succession plan

15:50and she wanted to retire.

15:51Um, and I somewhat softly raised my hand and said, wow, I'd be really interested in that role.

15:57Uh, I had moved to, uh, you know, made, made family move, all that kind of stuff.

16:03And, um, I started the courtship with the California MBA and to tell you the truth, it was long.

16:09Uh, it was about a year, a little bit over a year.

16:12Um, I had an interview process as a board member, um, and they ventured out and wanted to make sure

16:18that they had an opportunity to meet everyone.

16:22And, um, you know, after that year, they came back to me and said, we've, we've done our due diligence.

16:27We want to hear more about you and what it is that you want to do.

16:31And really Zeb at the end of the day, we sat back and looked at my career path, my experiences

16:37from finance to technology, to marketing and sales, um, to really understanding what advocacy and legislation met as being a

16:44board member.

16:45And the, uh, um, the executive board and the committee that was formed to support Susan with her succession plan,

16:52uh, kind of unanimously said, I think he's the best fit for it.

16:56So I moved into the position in October and it's really interesting.

17:02It's one of those things that you sit back and look at and say, it's very purposeful.

17:07Uh, everything I've done in my career, all the people I've met kind of lead me to this point.

17:14Um, and so it's got a lot of alignment for me.

17:19Uh, and with that is a lot of momentum and energy, uh, behind the association and the purpose of the

17:26association.

17:27What was the, what has been the biggest adjustment, you know, moving from a career filled as an operator to,

17:36um, sitting at the head of the CMBA and, you know, focusing so much on advocacy and reform.

17:42I mean, what was the biggest adjustment for you?

17:45I don't know.

17:46That's a really good question.

17:47I would oddly say the advocacy and legislation has been seamless.

17:52You know, our partners at KP public affairs, our lobbyist, Indira McDonald and, uh, John Ross have been brilliant supporting

17:59me.

18:00And Susan has also obviously been very supportive.

18:03We've done some amazing things from an advocacy legislative perspective since I've been in office, uh, or in position.

18:12Um, and I would say a lot of that is because I understand the industry.

18:17I understand what lenders need and I understand what solution providers need because I've sat in both those seats.

18:22Um, I, I came to the legislative advocacy side with the concept of wanting to innovate, uh, advocacy and wanting

18:33to be very collaborative with legislation.

18:35And, and, and our cornerstone is to educate lawmakers on how their proposed bills affect the industry.

18:42And so with that, if you pepper in collaboration and true education, you get like really strong results.

18:50So that portion of it has been extremely successful, uh, as it was before, but since I've been here, I

18:57would honestly say, Zeb, what has been most interesting to me as having a CEO title,

19:03where you're managing sales and marketing, you're managing operations, you're managing member support, uh, you're managing finances, you know, you're

19:13ensuring your members are happy, you're supporting running events.

19:17So you're kind of, you're covering all these bases and your, your collaboration becomes with board members, not, not a

19:25hundred percent with team members because you're, you're leading the organization.

19:29I think that's been, um, the, the, the, the, the largest segment of this job or portion of this job

19:37where I've sat back and I've, I've learned a lot from, from that perspective.

19:42What about the, um, the contrast between, I mean, I think at any organization, you know, uh, that there is

19:50like kind of quote unquote, like bureaucracy that you have to, to deal with.

19:55Um, but whenever you start dealing with the government, that's real bureaucracy that moves much slower than even the bureaucracy

20:05in a regular, in a, in a, in a business, in a, in a corporation.

20:09And from, and like at the, at the, at your seat at the top, you can, you can do something

20:14about that.

20:15Right.

20:15And you can expect quicker results and you can innovate much more, you know, efficiently than, I mean, the government

20:23is not, there's nothing speedy about the government and innovative.

20:28Right.

20:29So what's that like for you whenever you are, you know, you have this, you have this control over your

20:34organization and you can, you can make things happen.

20:36And you know, that, that lag between, you know, efficiency, speed, innovation, and then running the government.

20:44That's a great question.

20:46And, uh, not surprising coming from you because you picked up on my personality over the past couple of months

20:51from us hanging out.

20:52And it, it's been a little bit of a challenge, uh, again, in the being collaborative, right.

20:58As I am, I view myself as a very collaborative individual.

21:01I lean on Indira a lot.

21:03You know, when I say, well, what are we doing?

21:06What's going on?

21:07Like, why is the deadline in two months?

21:09It should be right now.

21:10Even with the, the rebuild fund, the rebuild initiative, uh, disaster relief in Southern California, we were a big part

21:18of working with the governor's office and in, in supporting in, uh, the, uh, a hundred million dollar, uh, rebuild

21:24on the May revise, which is turning into a bill.

21:28And we're launching a program in partnership with Cal HFA and our, um, construction lenders.

21:34Right.

21:34So in my head, I'm like, well, let's go, let's launch it.

21:37Like, well, no, no, no.

21:37You have to, this has to check that has to check.

21:40You know, we have to pull together the programs.

21:42And so, um, you know, I think that has been a learning lesson, uh, for, for me to, to, to,

21:52to watch others, right.

21:53Watch others lead with the, the project timeline and just ensure that I'm ready, set, go when, when timeline date

22:00is there.

22:01Um, and it's also been really interesting as I'm thinking about it now, there's an, there's another aspect of it.

22:08That's been really interesting is, you know, pulling in vendors to support our initiative, like Prune AI built this portal

22:16for us.

22:17Um, and they're sitting there saying, well, it needs to be done.

22:20You know, it's not, we, we've been working on this three months.

22:22Let's wrap it up.

22:23And me having to go back to him and explain, well, you know, we're still missing this piece and we'll

22:27get it in two weeks.

22:28So once we get that, you know, that, that fills it and we can move forward with our timeline.

22:34So a little bit of time management, expectation management.

22:38And I guess I would, I would also bring up not to be boring, but again, working with others and,

22:45and, and listening and letting others take the lead.

22:48So in a very collaborative environment has really helped me pump my brakes, so to speak.

22:54Yeah, you know, you've written, uh, some really good op-eds for us, uh, over the past year or so.

23:01And, uh, and I, I believe it was your last, uh, piece, it was, uh, about advocacy and you kind

23:07of made the statement that advocacy is not a side project.

23:10It's, uh, looking at it now, operational risk management and market intelligence, you know, in most originators as one, as

23:19a LO myself, um, they treat policy like it's background noise.

23:24Yeah.

23:25So can you, you know, can you make the case as to why an LO should really care what's happening

23:30at the state level, at the, at the federal level?

23:33Yeah.

23:34It's not, it seems like such an obvious answer, but it's not something that it just doesn't cross the mind

23:38of most LOs on a daily basis.

23:40No, it didn't cross my mind and it didn't cross your mind.

23:43Right.

23:44Because you just, you don't think about it, but what's really interesting, not only do LOs originators and even production,

23:51you know, managers, right.

23:53They, they look at regulation and legislation, not only as background noise, but a thorn in their side, like reporting

24:00rules.

24:01Why I think what's really important is to, to, to, for our industry.

24:05And we have this conversation a lot, California MBA, and I know national MBA has the same conversation and I'm

24:11sure other state MBAs do.

24:13It's, it's, it's, it's about understanding what's happening in an area of your business.

24:20That's constant change and drives for, you know, business volume to increase or decrease, right?

24:29So as an industry, we're constantly watching market conditions daily, twice a day.

24:34We're constantly reporting on them as you do at housing wire or constantly looking at consumer sentiment.

24:40What does the consumer need?

24:42What are they going to do next?

24:43How can we be there to catch or create what it is that they, they need to fulfill their desires

24:49and their wants.

24:50But what we're missing as an industry, I feel still on for, for the larger perspective side of it is

24:58an eye on regulation and legislation.

25:00We're not watching it as carefully as we should.

25:03And that's not because I'm not saying that because you're, you're doing something wrong or you're not following the regulatory,

25:10you know, guidelines or disclosures or rules.

25:14It's because it, it, it, you have to pay attention to it because there's actually opportunity in it, right?

25:21Like the regulatory environment, understanding the landscape can create opportunity for organizations to grow and flourish.

25:28Perfect example in 2011, when Dodd Frank was, you know, came to the industry, we had a couple of brilliant

25:38individuals that created non-qualified mortgage companies, non-QM organizations that focused on this new product segment, non-QM.

26:00Um, and so it was an, it was an opportunity for, for, it was, it was an opportunity, uh, to

26:06provide a need.

26:08And so I think if the industry really starts to focus on legislation and regulatory environment and, and pay attention

26:15to it, what you'll see more of is actual opportunity as opposed to struggle or as opposed to, uh, you

26:25know, reporting requirements.

26:26I think, um, it's the responsibility of associations like the California MBA to showcase that to the industry.

26:34And that's what we've really been pressing is educating not only lawmakers on how their proposed legislation affects the industry

26:43and consumer, but also educating the industry on what these rules mean, these laws mean, and how you can use

26:52them to help support your organization.

26:56Let me, let me, let me, let me, let's do this.

26:58Let me see if I can't, uh, share back with you, my interpretation of what, or what I've gathered from

27:05you on the way that professionals, uh, LOs should approach advocacy.

27:09And then you tell me if I am, to what degree I'm off.

27:13How's that sound?

27:14Yeah.

27:15Okay.

27:16So when, when, you know, when you're talking about not approaching advocacy as a side project, you know, I, I

27:21interpret that as a, like a hobby, right?

27:24Which is something, a hobby, the guitars behind me, right?

27:27Like I know a ton of people, I've been playing since I was 12 years old, and I know dozens

27:31and dozens of people that like, that's their, they're going to get a new hobby.

27:34And then they try and it's hard to, hard to learn.

27:37They get frustrated because there's no progress.

27:40And so they, they give it up and they move on to the next thing.

27:43And, uh, I can see this with, especially the, the, most of the originators that I know their, their, their,

27:49their temperament.

27:50Um, but anytime there is, there's not immediate progress.

27:53You don't have an immediate win, then onto the next thing.

27:56I get frustrated and I throw my hands up and your, your kind of, uh, response would be to, to

28:03see advocacy as part of a, a professional responsibility.

28:08And that you should integrate this advocacy into a, a larger, uh, um, strategy or, uh, or set of duties

28:21as a loan originator.

28:23And it is something that you, it is something that you do, um, you know, consistently with the, with the

28:30right expectations, uh, in, in mind and understand that you're not going to get an immediate win, but it is

28:37something that you do.

28:38And it will, and those actions and that involvement will pay off.

28:42And it does influence over the course of, you know, over the course of years, but it's not something that

28:48you, it's not something you dive into super excited.

28:50And then I'm going to, you know, we're going to, we're going to change the industry next month.

28:53And then, you know, and that doesn't happen.

28:55And then you, and then you set it down.

28:56Is that.

28:57That's, that's super spot on.

28:59You know, as you were talking, I was like, it's like working out, right?

29:02Like if you notice that you're out of shape, you start walking every day or start going to the gym.

29:05You don't wake up the next day.

29:07You might feel better when you wake up the next day.

29:09If you don't wake up the next day and you're like, man, I'm, you know, I'm ripped or I've, I'm,

29:13my waist size is down or whatever the case is.

29:15It, it takes time.

29:17I would add to what you said, and I think it's, it's, I think what's really important is to, is

29:24as you're, as you're stepping into advocacy and you really understand what advocacy today means, that idea of collaboration, innovation,

29:32not holding a sign and, you know, flower power type stuff from the seventies.

29:36But you're, you're, you're really steeped in the advocacy.

29:40I think, yes, understanding it, it becomes part of your fabric, but I think it's also really important.

29:47So the only thing I would add to what you're saying is to look for opportunity within it, to look

29:53for opportunity within those, those, the, those, those laws that are coming down the pipeline that are changing things.

29:59Like what is the opportunity, how can I utilize this to communicate to a consumer that I know about this

30:05new regulatory change?

30:07How does that make me look as an originator that I'm watching that?

30:10How does it make me look as an originator that I'm seeing this new bond program that's coming through?

30:16Well, that's perfect for a first time home buyer and there's $30 million in this bond program.

30:20So I'm going to go market this bond program because I know about it, right?

30:24There are so many opportunities specifically for originators, but also for operators and compliance to really understand where the industry

30:33is going.

30:33When you look at legislation and regulatory, because it's, it's constant.

30:38It's always changing just like market conditions.

30:42Yeah.

30:43Okay.

30:43So this actually kind of leads into the, the next thing that I wanted to talk to you about, which

30:47is the road to housing.

30:49Uh, came to law a couple of weeks ago.

30:52That's, you know, it's, it's all encompassing bill, the building supply, uh, site, the building supply side reform, financing, access

31:00measures, institutional investor restrictions.

31:02And I'd like your perspective on, uh, two, two different angles at, at a high level, what matters in what

31:09really matters in the bill for both the, well, let's start with the, uh, with the, the consumer.

31:15How does this affect the consumer?

31:18Well, I think what I'd like to do, if you wouldn't mind, Zeb is just kind of comment on the

31:23road to housing, uh, bill, uh, 21st century road to housing bill or act.

31:29Um, and what it means as you're saying for, to the consumer, but also in general, because I think there's

31:37a little bit more.

31:38There's a little bit more to it, um, than for, for the consumer, if you wouldn't mind, I view, I

31:45view the road to housing act as, you know, for when I first look at it, um, I first view

31:51it as meaningful and an overdue bipartisan step.

31:56So the fact that leaders from both parties were able to come together around housing affordability matters, um, and create

32:05the act, I think is something that we need to stop and look at because this, uh, challenge is larger

32:12than any one party and any one agency or any one market cycle.

32:16Right. Like we, we've, we've, we have a little bit of an issue with affordability, uh, in our nation.

32:22Um, and so that's where I go to first and foremost, and I think I go there because of our

32:27current political environment.

32:29Um, so from, from my perspective, this was, uh, I want to count how many times I've said collaboration on

32:36this chat with you, but it really was an effort of collaboration.

32:40You know, it took a lot of agencies to come together and both parties to come together.

32:44So first and foremost, I think that's, that's important to look at.

32:49I believe that the way the law is written, it currently recognizes one of the central problems.

32:53We simply as a nation do not have enough housing and the cost of housing has greatly increased.

33:00It aims to reduce the bill aims to reduce unnecessary barriers, um, modernized federal housing programs, which I think will

33:09open up the door for a lot more, uh, uh, access to credit and housing.

33:15Um, and it expands financing, uh, capacity.

33:19Um, so it supports community banks.

33:23As I understand, and it makes it easier to bring more types of housing to the market, including manufacturing and

33:30modular housing.

33:31And I think that's another really important part because once we start doing that in this bill, it'll also then

33:39therefore await its opportunity, right?

33:42Because of the way that the bill is written, I, I, I hope that there are lenders out there that

33:48are looking for funds that are, that are interested in, in manufacturing housing because of this bill.

33:54That's one of those opportunities that I was talking about with legislation.

33:58Um, so, you know, to answer your question, I think this, this bill serves a handful of, of, um, initiatives

34:09and supports a handful of initiatives, not just from a political perspective, not just from an industry perspective, but as

34:18you were saying, also the consumer.

34:19It's providing access, um, it's providing access, more access, um, it's ensuring that, uh, you know, the, the way that

34:26the bill is crafted, we're supporting the concept and idea of, Hey, it doesn't have to be a stick built

34:34home on a parcel.

34:36You know, we can look at different housing initiatives to help, you know, low to moderate income, um, individuals that

34:43want, want to purchase a home.

34:46Do you think that this is something that is, that, um, people, it could be, it could be LOs or

34:52the, or the home buyer, just in general, that we'll start to see any sort of change, you know, in

34:57the next 12 months, or is this more of a, you know, we really won't see the, the, the effect

35:02of this until maybe closer to 2030 or something.

35:04Tying back into speed of speed of the government.

35:08So it's the speed issue, right?

35:09So I don't think it'll be the next 12 months, but I bet it will be before 2030.

35:13So I would look at this as starting to be able to see things roll out in 28, but I

35:19got to tell you, it's up to the industry to push that forward, right?

35:22That's part of advocacy, ask questions, ask about it, you know, push it forward to your, you know, state, local,

35:29you know, get, get eyes on it as much as we can as an industry.

35:33Have conversations like this, you know, uh, what we need to do first as an industry is internalize it and

35:41understand it, um, back to opportunity.

35:44Where's the opportunity for the industry, therefore, for the consumer.

35:48And once we start to really look at that, then turn that into products that we can bring to market.

35:54Well, then we're creating action around it, right?

35:59Um, but the, the other thing we can take this, uh, more local and you and I have, this is

36:03something that you and I have in common in very different, uh, very different ways.

36:06But, uh, I mean, I live in the Mecca of, of hurricanes in, uh, here in Southeast Texas on the

36:13Gulf coast.

36:14And you've been really, uh, involved with the California wildfire recovery, um, that situation.

36:21Uh, so I wanted to get your brain and, and, and have you kind of fill me in on what

36:26you've, what you've been involved in, what you've learned from that, what the outcomes have been or what's in progress.

36:32Can you kind of get, get me up to speed here?

36:35Yeah.

36:36Uh, I'll tell you what I've learned is this concept that I'm coming to the industry with and, and, you

36:42know, legislators with about innovating and collaborating is really starting to take root.

36:47Uh, we started this, uh, program based off of an ask from the governor's office saying, what can, what needs

36:54to happen to support these fire victims in Southern California.

36:59And, you know, we sat down and when I say we, we started with our lobbyist and some of our

37:04board members and said, all right, so what are the issues?

37:06The issues are lack of responsible financing for construction loans.

37:13And when I say responsible, you know, lenders that are really there to take care of, you know, the, the

37:18consumer, the victim, um, lack of accessing them.

37:22So letting them know about these loan programs, we've got some issues with forbearance, uh, we've got some issues with

37:28insurance and forbearance requests, I should say, as well as permits.

37:33So how do we tie this all together?

37:35How do we bring a solve to the table?

37:37And you know what?

37:39We also need some financial support because we've got a couple of financial issues.

37:43One, the disparity between insurance payout and actual cost to rebuild that's, it's, you know, the wise behind that are

37:51another story, but it's there.

37:53And then we have a handful of, uh, fire victims that had mortgages liens on their home.

37:59I think cotality gave us data that showed about 75% of the homes that were 50% or more

38:05destroyed had mortgages on them.

38:07And there's a jarring statistic on that, you know, that, that ratio of homes that had liens, how many of

38:15those individuals refied when rates were between 2.75 and four.

38:20And now those rates are six.

38:21So we had two financial issues, uh, payment shock or lack of being able to, you know, get qualified for

38:29that higher interest rate.

38:30Um, and the disparity between insurance payout and actual cost to rebuild.

38:35We were fortunate enough to be able to work with the state of California, the governor's office, um, and, and,

38:41and continue a collaborative environment, uh, and, and work with them and, and, and come to the table with, there

38:48needs to be funds to help bridge these two financial gaps.

38:52Then we can take those funds and ensure that there's financing.

38:56And then we can ensure that additional forbearance time is there if needed, as the homes are being built.

39:02Um, and so that's what we've done.

39:05Um, we've, we've created some really solid, uh, loan programs through our partner, our member partner, CMG and guild.

39:12Uh, we built a portal with our other, uh, uh, member partner, prudent AI.

39:17We collected a ton of data with our other member partner, cotality.

39:21Um, and we've created, uh, a portal and some loan programs that are going through Cal HFA, um, to support

39:28the, the homeowner.

39:29Um, our programs are supposed to launch right, right after the holiday in September, uh, to the consumer.

39:36And, uh, the, the hope and desire and goal is to get our communities back up and going in California

39:41and get the homeowners back to their homes.

39:44Um, get schools up and going and, and get life back on track as, as quickly as possible.

39:51Yeah.

39:52I think this is kind of going back to the, uh, the innovation.

39:56You said it.

39:57Yeah.

39:57You said it.

39:59Yeah.

39:59The, uh, the, it's the point, like, you know, forbearance, for example, that's like, that's a, that's a one-time

40:04use kind of thing, right?

40:05It's a, uh, a once in a lifetime, you know, crisis.

40:09And, you know, we're, we're in this, we're the reality that we're in this environment of recurring climate events.

40:16Uh, and so, you know, we need to, we, we need these different financial tools or relief tools to, uh,

40:23to support a, the, like the new world that we're living in.

40:26Yeah.

40:26Right.

40:27Yeah.

40:28The great thing that California did with that Zeb is the, the, uh, may revise the budget line of a

40:34hundred million dollars.

40:34That's not earmarked specifically for the Southern California disaster.

40:38Uh, you know, that's, that's all natural disasters in the state of California.

40:43Obviously right now, the one that we have to deal with is Southern California wildfires.

40:47Um, and with the way that we worked with Cal HFA and the portal that was built, I, I hope

40:52that other states come to us as a model and that we can also support other states in, in creating

40:58the same type of disaster relief.

41:01Um, that, that, that's, that's the hope and desire so that this can be used globally, or I should say

41:07nationally, uh, in all states, because it's, you know, it's on the phone with our friends at Cotality, John Rogers

41:13and, and George Gallagher.

41:15And we, you know, we, we, we, we looked at what is it going to look like in future years.

41:20And there's, unfortunately, there's going to be a lot more natural disasters that disrupt homes and communities.

41:26Um, and so that was the, the premise idea, like this is a beta, how's it going?

41:31How's it going to work?

41:32Um, and we could be there for other, other states to support as well.

41:37Right.

41:37Well, so tell me what's, what's coming next?

41:40Like in the next six months, what is the, uh, what's the thing that you believe originators will, or just

41:47anybody, anybody in the industry will wish that they would have paid attention to sooner or would have been involved

41:53in sooner from an advocacy standpoint?

41:56You know, it, it varies, right?

41:58So we're, we're, we're talking specifically about state and local, uh, uh, government.

42:02So I think that, um, you know, I, if, if there's a message that I could give listeners that are

42:10in the industry, whether operations or, or compliance, you know, pay attention to what's happening from a state and local,

42:16uh, um, landscape, uh, really have a strong understanding as to how it affects your business.

42:22There's a lot of changes coming down the pipeline and I'll tell you, uh, uh, your participation really matters in

42:30advocacy, especially right now, as there's this toggle between federal law and state law.

42:36There's a ton of overlap on, uh, state level, uh, proposed legislation that's already occurring at a federal level.

42:45And so what we don't want to do to our industry is overlap on dual regulation and dual law.

42:51So that's kind of a focus of ours right now.

42:54Um, obviously affordability is a huge focus.

42:56So as we move forward with the disaster relief and kind of get that program up and running as an

43:02association, my focus in 2027 as the CEO of the California MBA is going to be to work with the

43:09industry and other states, uh, and, and national MBA to have a focus on affordability and what, and what that

43:15means.

43:15Um, outside the road to recovery, but what can we do at a state level, uh, to support housing affordability

43:22is, is going to be a focus of ours as well.

43:25Yeah.

43:26All right.

43:27So look, before we, we're, we're running up on our time.

43:29Uh, and, uh, before we wrap this up, I think we've got some news to share with, uh, the audience.

43:34You know, we spent, we spent the last several minutes just talking on just two policy stories and there's, we

43:40really barely scratched the surface.

43:41I mean, uh, we, there's so much to explore there and that's our previous conversation.

43:46That's the, that's kind of a problem in the industry, right?

43:49The stuff moves every week.

43:50It lands directly on how, you know, originators, you know, originate their, originate their, their loans.

43:57Uh, so what you and I are wanting to do is, is help, uh, track a lot of this stuff

44:03for the audience.

44:04And so, uh, audience speaking to you now, starting next month, Paul is going to be joining me right here

44:09on powerhouse every month.

44:11And I'm going to be having Paul on to share the most important policy and regulatory happenings and break down

44:19what they mean or their implications for, uh, you and your business plain language.

44:25No, uh, no committee speak.

44:28Right.

44:28Um, but that's, that's, that's what I'm most excited about, uh, volume, come in chair, how you can get involved

44:35as well.

44:35That's a, that's really what I'm actually most excited about.

44:38Not just the, the, the, the updates on policies and the implications for the business, but your ability to provide

44:45direction to listeners that want to become involved and an advocacy.

44:51Because, you know, the, the, the people that are writing these rules, they need to hear directly from the people

44:57that are living with them.

44:58Yeah.

44:59They, they want to.

45:00So Zeb, I want to thank you and the team at housing wire for this opportunity.

45:04This has been a great, you know, conversation, but I too am looking forward to, uh, getting to hang out

45:10with you on a monthly basis and, and, uh, you know, sharing how advocacy and legislation can, can really support

45:16the industry and how we need to be there.

45:18You know, it's amazing.

45:20I'll just button up with, uh, when we go and talk to assembly members at state level there, they need

45:27our information.

45:27They know they do, they need access to what we know about the industry and how, you know, they, they

45:35need to take their, they're there for the people as well.

45:38Right.

45:38And so how to take our information and carve it into the language that's proper for, for these bills.

45:46Um, so once you dive in, it actually becomes, you know, pat yourself on the back because you're helping create

45:52law, like you're helping structure law, which is huge.

45:57Um, so I'll shout out to you, man, for, for giving me this opportunity, uh, and, and for caring enough

46:04or so much about the industry for, for sharing this on a monthly basis.

46:08And I can't, I can't wait for these conversations.

46:11Me, me either, I'm, I'm really looking forward to it and, uh, thank you for your time, uh, but audience,

46:16if there's a policy, I would say this as well, if there's a policy issue that, uh, that you would

46:19like, uh, Paul and I to, you know, dig into and, uh, and discuss, send it our way, send it

46:25our way on, uh, on LinkedIn and yeah, we'll, we'll, uh, we'll, we'll dig into it.

46:30So Paul, thank you for joining me again.

46:32I could talk to you all day, man.

46:33And, uh, so happy that you're gonna be joining me on a, on a monthly basis.

46:36Thanks.

46:37I appreciate it.

46:37Zeb, have a great day.

46:39You too.

Building influence: Paul Gigliotti on leadership, innovation and mortgage’s future

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