The next Non-QM: Jim Cory on the reverse sleeper opportunity

HousingWire

Homeowners 55 and up are sitting on enormous untapped equity, and most lenders still don't have a plan for it. Jim Cory, Managing Director of Reverse at Guild Mortgage and a board member at NRMLA, joins Zeb to explain how reverse mortgages went from a loan of last resort to a flexible tool for older homeowners and the almost-seniors behind them. He covers the rise of jumbo reverse products, the move from 62+ to 55+ eligibility, and why reverse for purchase may be the least understood play in the market. They also get into the industry shift: large IMBs are bringing reverse in house rather than brokering it out, building full departments the way they once did with non-QM. Plus stigma, Boomer tech adoption, and the referral network moving from realtors to financial planners and CPAs.  Related to the episode:  ⁠Zeb Lowe’s LinkedIn⁠ https://www.linkedin.com/in/zebulon-lowe-a02353a4/  Jim Cory's LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimtcory/  Guild Mortgage https://www.guildmortgage.com/  NRMLA https://www.nrmlaonline.org/  Buy one, get one FREE tickets to the Mortgage Banking Summit on October 1st https://events.housingwire.com/mortgage-banking-summit-2026  Want more from Zeb? Don’t forget to subscribe to LendingLife.  The Power House podcast brings the biggest names in housing to answer hard-hitting questions about industry trends, operational and growth strategy, and leadership. Join HousingWire’s Zeb Lowe every Thursday morning for candid conversations with industry leaders to learn how they’re differentiating themselves from the competition. Hosted and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.

Transcript

00:00Welcome back to Powerhouse. Today's episode looks at one of the biggest opportunities in the market

00:04just lying in wait. Homeowners 55 and older are sitting on a huge share of the country's housing

00:09wealth that most lenders still aren't serving. My guest today is Jim Corey, a leader in the

00:15reverse space and a member of the board of National Re...

00:20My guest today is Jim Corey, a leader in the reverse space and a member of the board of the

00:25National Reverse Mortgage Lenders Association. We dig into the reverse space, what it takes to

00:30serve this type of borrower, and what a modern loan originator looks like as the industry continues

00:35to evolve at such a rapid pace. So I got a lot to talk to you about, but before we

00:53dive in,

00:53can you share your title, what that title means, and what you're doing into the industry before we

01:01jump into the topic at hand? It's my personal goal to have every single

01:06guild loan originator fund a reverse mortgage at some point.

01:09Okay. All right. That's actually quite topical for... Or that's quite a perfect statement for

01:16the topic at hand. You and I, we crossed paths a bit whenever I used to work at a lender

01:25prior to

01:26coming on to Housing Wire. And it's interesting to me to have these conversations about the reverse

01:33mortgage or about reverse mortgages in general and their place in the industry now, their place in the

01:36industry in the future, because whenever you get... Whenever you're plugged into that world,

01:43it's very easy to assume that everybody knows or shares the same perspective about a reverse

01:48mortgage that you share. And then it doesn't take... You don't have to venture or wander too far out of

01:52the reverse mortgage space to realize that many people do not. The majority of people actually

01:59in the industry still do not. And so one of the things that I didn't want to do, because I

02:03feel

02:03like when the topic of reverse mortgage comes up, there's the initial jump to clarify what a reverse

02:08mortgage is, what a reverse mortgage isn't, to dispel the myths. I've been doing the same kind

02:13of conversation around reverse mortgages for like 15 years at least. And so I don't want to do that,

02:21but I also want to try to... I don't want to try to retread that ground too much, I guess

02:24I should say.

02:25But the product has evolved over the years. And so I was hoping that we could jump into this

02:30conversation with your explanation of what the product looks like, what reverse mortgages look

02:37like today, and who the borrower actually is now that is sitting across from most originators.

02:46Well, the products evolved a lot. I mean, for the longest time, all we talked about was house rich and

02:52cash poor. And, you know, the number one client was the widow, the little old lady, for lack of a

03:02better term, that was house rich and cash poor and needed this. It was like a loan of last resort.

03:08And

03:08it's really changed now to be a versatile financial tool that can support anybody. Previously, it was 62

03:17plus, now it's 55 plus with different products. And that's what we're seeing a whole proliferation of new

03:23products and new customers. Yeah, can you expand on that? Because again, I think that's the, you know,

03:30whenever people think about a reverse mortgage, they, most of the time, or again, for a very long time, you

03:37were talking about a HECM, home equity conversion mortgage, which was available to seniors 62 and over, like, I

03:42know the spiel, like I've been down that road so many times. We're not going to do that. Right, right.

03:46So, so explain the expansion of the product portfolio. How, how has that evolved over,

03:54over the years? I mean, I know, as young as, as 55, and there's, you know, questions that are raised,

04:00like, how, how beneficial can that be with payout options, starting as young at 55? Where are we at

04:06now versus where we were? So we're seeing that nowadays, we're seeing different products beyond

04:12just the FHA HECM previously, it was the FHA HECM. It's, it's capped on the, as far as the lending

04:19amount goes. So the initial products that came out were jumbo products meant to serve, you know,

04:26million dollar plus, $2 million plus homes, and, and higher lending amounts. Those same products now

04:32compete with the home equity conversion mortgage, and have taken, in many cases, depending on how you

04:39look at it, as much as 50% of the market share. In addition, beyond those products, we also have

04:46new products that are not necessarily reverse mortgages. A reverse mortgage is age-based and

04:52has no P and I payment. So these, these mortgages might have a small payment, but still be based on

04:58life expectancy and mobility expectancy. And we're seeing those products met, you know, basically,

05:05we're casting a wider net, um, that's helping out more retirees and more, um, seniors, or as I like

05:14to say, almost seniors. Right. So talking about, uh, or, or, or following up on the idea of casting a

05:22wider net, I would imagine, you know, as you, uh, expand that, uh, eligible age down to 55, that really

05:28is, I mean, it's just, you have so many people sitting on such an enormous amount of housing

05:33wealth. And I'm curious to know how, as of the industry, you know, today, in 2026, how many,

05:41how many of these, you know, eligible, uh, uh, borrowers or, or, you know, 55 plus in need is the

05:50industry, in your opinion, is the industry actually reaching and those that aren't being reached, why are

05:55they, why do you feel they're being left out? Um, I, I think there's a stigma. Everybody talks

06:01about the stigma of reverse, you know, people say, well, I've heard about that. That's not good.

06:05Um, and, uh, and it's not, and in some, in many, in most cases, it's an unfair stigma. Um, and,

06:12and

06:12it's actually preventing people from even listening. I think the book with new products coming out,

06:18especially that they're technically not a reverse mortgage, we're actually seeing a lot more people

06:23listening. And there's a, for a great example of it is actually the reverse for purchase. We can

06:28actually, nobody knows this. You can use a reverse to purchase a home. Everyone says, well, what's

06:33that all about? Um, it basically takes a cash buyer and increases the amount of home they can buy

06:39without having a more, a P and I payment. It's amazing. Or it takes somebody that might,

06:45might not qualify or might be having a difficult time qualifying. Um, that's going to, that is looking

06:51for a lower LTV loan. We could replace that, do a reverse mortgage instead person. Again,

06:57it's easy to qualify when you have a zero P and I payment. Well, I do feel that there's been

07:02a

07:02shift. There's been a movement over the past couple or some movement in the past couple of years with

07:07IMBs in particular, uh, building out, you know, uh, reverse lending and an active adult lending.

07:13Let's say what do you, what has changed over the past, uh, timeframe is arbitrary, but let's say five,

07:19six years, uh, with the adoption or the recognition of the opportunity with, uh, with reverses and

07:26active adult lending with IMBs. I mean, why, you know, why now? Well, what's changed is the IMBs largely

07:33in the past, maybe broke, brokered out a couple of reverse mortgages just to give their, just to give

07:38their allows an opportunity to, to sell, to sell the reverse product. And now virtually,

07:44basically all of the large IMBs have full fledged reverse mortgage departments. It's one of the main

07:49themes that's been going on for say the last two years. Um, and everybody, I mean, we're talking,

07:55you know, underwriting, closing funding, not just brokering out, but actually full fledged, uh,

07:59departments, um, that along with product is, are the, you know, some of the main, um, differences.

08:05And I'll, I'll bring up one other difference that's happened in the space. Um, and it's

08:10largely driven by those IMBs is now we have traditional mortgage associations and traditional

08:15mortgage networks are now adding reverse to their repertoire. Uh, MBA for instance,

08:21mortgage bankers association has two different reverse mortgage groups.

08:26And so we're seeing that as a major change as well. Yeah. Well, um, next week we have our, uh,

08:31mortgage banking summit in Dallas and the conversation around all of the sessions,

08:38the center around the idea that our industry is being restructured kind of from the ground up,

08:43uh, which is something that's happening in below a, you know, a, a market, uh,

08:49risk or a market, a market cycle, right? If you've been in the industry for more than

08:51eight, nine years, like you've been down this road in some form or fashion before,

08:55but, uh, but, but under underneath that is kind of a once in a career, once in a industry

09:02restructuring, uh, in part due to technology and other part due to, you know, massive, you know,

09:07M and a activity and any number of things. And, uh, and part of that premise is that the,

09:12that the lenders and the originators that don't really take, uh, take a, take a beat and

09:20make it a point to modernize, which is a conversation that people have been

09:23having for the past decade. But if you don't take the next couple of years and truly modernize,

09:28you will be left behind. And I'm curious as to your perspective on how or where does serving

09:35older homeowners fit into that equation for a modern, um, a modern mortgage company,

09:42a modern lender, a modern loan originator. Is it, uh, like, do you see that part of the,

09:48the current restructuring, I guess is the best way word that I have for it. Or do you still that

09:53feel like it right now, it's still, even though there is change, it's still more of a side business

09:57for, for, for most shops. It's a, it's a great question. The way I'd answer it is I'm looking at

10:04and in starting to include, um, especially at my company and, and, you know, within these reverse

10:10mortgage networks that abound. Um, I'm starting to talk about, um, reverse mortgage as the next,

10:17the, the, not only the next non-QM right. Non-QM is the talk in the space right now. And

10:22that's where I think,

10:23a lot of the modernization is with, with guild and other large IMBs. They're looking at,

10:28Hey, I, you know, a year ago, I would have turned this loan over to somebody else. Now I can

10:33do it

10:33myself. And we're, we're teaching the same thing with reverse mortgages. Hey, you don't need to have

10:38somebody else do it. You don't need to have the reverse expert that, you know, at a broker shop or

10:43another company. You don't need to give that lead to them. You don't want to give that lead to them.

10:47Let, let, let us help you do it. Okay. So, and we're weaving into that. Oh, go ahead.

10:52Well, I was going to say, expand on this, like for a lender, that's only, you know,

10:55just traditional purchase lending. What does it take to add, uh, what does it take to add a reverse

11:00vertical or is that even necessary? Is it just, uh, is it, um, not an entire, should,

11:07should a traditional purchase lender not even see reverse as an entire new business vertical or to,

11:13you know, entirely new revenue, uh, uh, uh, stream, but just an additional.

11:19Yeah. I think I should, should see it as a not another non-QM product. You know,

11:24I know my company's adding non-QM products all the time. Um, and reverse should be the same. I,

11:30I joke that reverse is the original non-QM and actually that the reverse mortgage is the least

11:36qualified mortgage, um, as far as not having any payment at all. So, um, I, I don't, I,

11:42I don't see it as a lender needing to make a C change to their operations or their flow,

11:46but rather just adding these products as they come similar to how you would add a non-QM product.

11:53I know that, um, retirement itself looks very different than it did. Retirement itself looks

11:58very, very different than it did whenever, you know, or, I mean, reverse heckums have been around

12:02since like the eighties, I believe when the first one done like in 76, 89, the first one was done

12:06in

12:0689. I thought it was, well, there were, there were non-heckums done prior to that. Okay.

12:10The first one was done in 89. Um, but you know, like I said, traditional retirement is not a,

12:16is not a thing, right? Not, not in the world that we grew up in, uh, and definitely looks

12:21very different than it did even 10 years ago. So, you know, people are, they're working longer.

12:24They're, they're, they're, they're moving later, helping their kids buy homes. How has the, uh, the,

12:32the borrower changed, uh, and, and what do, what would, what do lenders and originators need to know

12:39about the best way to, to, to serve a newer, uh, later in life testimony?

12:46Right. Well, the, the borrower has changed. Um, we're seeing a lot more couples. Like I said,

12:51a lot of times it was a, it was losing income, kind of run into a hard spot and then

12:57need a

12:57reverse mortgage. And now we're seeing a lot more, um, activity in, in, in older couples that want to

13:03use this product, um, to wipe out expenses or, and like I said, um, we're seeing more and more

13:09reverse for purchases. It's like, you want to move into a retirement community. What a,

13:13what a fantastic deal. I can get the house that I wanted that maybe I didn't have enough from the

13:18sale of my other home. Um, now I can get, now I can move into that home and get a

13:23reverse for

13:23purchase and not have to worry about a P and I payment for the rest of my life.

13:27Right. For, for a, uh, traditional purchase LO are, uh, for my, for my experience, um,

13:38the expectations of the bar, I mean, whenever I first, I guess, came up, uh, learning about

13:44reverse mortgages as a purchase originator, the, the, the lender that we were at, and, um, and just

13:51kind of the, the general consensus of the industry was like, there are two different types of originators.

13:55There's a purchase LO and then there's a reverse LO and, and the reverse LOs, they, they're almost

14:00kind of had their own. They were like, almost like mystics or something where they had to have

14:05an infinite amount of like, because like, if you're six weeks on a purchase, then you're out of business,

14:11like realtors aren't going to use you. If you're six weeks out on a purchase, if you're six months

14:14on a reverse transaction, like that's nothing out of the norm. Right. And so, uh, and so there was this

14:21kind of belief that you needed to, you just need to have a different personality type and

14:24and in reality, it's just, you need to have different expectations calibrated for you for

14:28different types. Yeah. The, the borrower is that the borrower has been changing. Um, and, and to

14:34your point about the reverse mystic, if you will, you, you kind of needed to be this reverse mystic and

14:39you had these old borrowers that in the, in oftentimes, uh, homes that had a lot of deferred maintenance,

14:46the newer customer and, and the IMBs, I think have the opportunity now to get more involved because

14:54the new customer is a couple, um, is in a nice house or in many cases, buying a home using

15:01a reverse.

15:02Um, it's starting to look, they're starting to look and feel a lot more like a regular customer.

15:07And in fact, I mean, what is it? 42 of all purchases were, um, from buyer from buyers, uh,

15:14uh, uh, 62 plus. Um, so we're, we're seeing a massive amount of, of baby boomer activity in mortgage.

15:24You know, I kind of, uh, it, it's a similar, I lived in, uh, Southeast Asia for a long time.

15:28There's a very famous, uh, famously used, uh, English phrase that, uh, that people in Southeast

15:34Asia, we use, like they'll say same, same, but different. Uh, and so like, I feel it's

15:38kind of the same, same, but different conversation with referral partners too, where, uh, you'll,

15:42you know, on the purchase side, it's your realtors, right? They're your, they're your bread and butter.

15:47And then on the reverse side, it's financial planners, CPAs, uh, attorneys, you know, even

15:54family members, but, but like on the, on the professional side, financial, financial advisors,

15:58CPAs, and, uh, like estate attorneys and stuff. And, and again, those are your referral partners,

16:02you would approach them similarly as a real, as a, as you would an agent, same, same, but different.

16:08Not exactly. Uh, and so are you finding the same thing now when, especially with the, you know,

16:13the purchase LOs that are moving into that finding success in that reverse?

16:17Space. How are they approaching these different types of referral partners?

16:21Yeah. Well, I don't know that it's the referral partner that makes the difference. What they're

16:25doing now is when they're, when they see a client coming in 55 plus, um, or 62 plus,

16:31if they're focused more on the, on the HECM reverse mortgage, they're looking at,

16:35they're, they're putting that option in front of that borrower. And that's really the key.

16:40That's the sea change at the IMB level where, where instead of, instead of farming it out for

16:47referral from the reverse mystic, as you called it, um, they're actually being able to do it

16:53themselves and saying, Hey, you know what there, you might have an option here that you're not

16:57thinking of. Uh, I had a good story from, um, one of our, one of our top branch managers who

17:02was

17:02dealing with somebody, um, who was trying to get a HELOC and was a turndown and didn't have the income

17:08and said, wait a second, let me, let me take a look at this. Now, this customer didn't know

17:12what a reverse was, didn't want to talk about it, took a look at it and, and actually said,

17:18this is exactly for me and actually broke down in tears saying that this is going to,

17:22you know, save her situation. So, um, those are the, those are the awesome transactions. And that was by

17:28a traditional purchase LO, not from a reverse person. So I think another big part of the, uh,

17:37conversation as it relates to, I guess, modernity in the, uh, in the industry and is the, and the

17:43evolution is technology. Um, and again, this is a very obvious statement, but over the past couple,

17:49several years, technology has massively, uh, kind of begin, begun to reshape our,

17:55our industry and anybody that has spent time in the reverse space knows that the, uh, a senior

18:01borrower does not interface with technology, um, as, as well as a 30 year old first time home buyer.

18:09But we are, you know, but again, that was a 62 year old 10 years ago. It's not the same

18:1562 year old

18:16in 2026. So where do you see right now? Where do you see technology assisting our origination process

18:23and the, the, the, the customer journey, the borrower journey and their experience and education

18:29versus it still being a bit of an obstacle or being too cumbersome for

18:34people that are in their senior years? Yeah. Regarding technology, we've been talking about

18:39the changing borrower and that, that same, you know, senior borrower isn't so much a senior anymore.

18:45Now we're talking about a baby boomer. Baby boomers often have, you know, really good tech skills.

18:50Um, so we're seeing that, that ability to the borrower to either communicate, um, or, you know,

18:56or, or, or be involved in the process using technology a lot easier. The other thing is

19:01lenders are now focusing, I think in a lot of, in the traditional space, a lot more focusing on

19:07a point of sale rather than, than an LOS. And I think that's held the business back a little bit.

19:12And now we're seeing on the reverse side, a bunch of point of sale systems that are being able to

19:17handle

19:18a reverse and in some cases be able to, you know, show, show a traditional mortgage with a reverse

19:23mortgage. Oh, I got, um, I guess I got, I got one last question for you. Uh, if a lender

19:29is

19:30listening to this episode and they are seriously thinking about exploring, um, exploring this world,

19:37what's the first, what's the first step of the first move that they should make before, before 2027?

19:43Uh, a lender looking into the space. I mean, I would look at the organizations that are supporting,

19:48um, that are supporting the reverse space right now, the traditional ones, the National Reverse

19:53Mortgage Lenders Association. Um, the MBA is casting a wider net with a new group called the

19:59Senior Mortgage Solutions Network. I actually happen to be the co-chair of both. Um, and, uh,

20:05so I would also say, feel free to reach out to me as well. Um, but if you want to

20:10get involved,

20:10I would go through one of those organizations. We're seeing a lot of, you know, there's a lot

20:15of stuff out there that would, would help you learn and help you get involved. Excellent. All

20:20right, Jim. Well, thank you for coming on and, uh, it was good seeing you again. Awesome. Yeah.

20:23Great to see you. Thanks for having me. And, uh, yes, sir. I'll talk to you soon. Bye.

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