Mortgage policy, made simple: What’s changing and why it matters

HousingWire

Zeb Lowe and California MBA CEO Paul Gigliotti unpack the policy decisions shaping the mortgage industry—from the defeat of California’s proposed CRA bill and stalled mortgage portability and PACE proposals to disaster-rebuilding assistance and forbearance reform. They also look ahead to the ROAD to Housing Act and why affordable housing deserves mortgage professionals’ attention. The big takeaway: understanding policy early can help the industry prepare, advocate, and spot opportunities.  Related to the episode:  ⁠Zeb Lowe’s LinkedIn⁠ https://www.linkedin.com/in/zebulon-lowe-a02353a4/  Paul Gigliotti's LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-gigliotti-60653130/  CRA Bill https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IF10023  ROAD to Housing Act https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/6644/text  Buy one, get one FREE tickets to the Mortgage Banking Summit on October 1st https://events.housingwire.com/mortgage-banking-summit-2026  Want more from Zeb? Don’t forget to subscribe to LendingLife.  The Power House podcast brings the biggest names in housing to answer hard-hitting questions about industry trends, operational and growth strategy, and leadership. Join HousingWire’s Zeb Lowe every Thursday morning for candid conversations with industry leaders to learn how they’re differentiating themselves from the competition. Hosted and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.

Transcript

00:00Pilates is back. Paul runs the California MBA, and once a month, he sits down with me to break

00:05down the policy and regulatory moves that shape the industry, in plain language, for people that

00:10are actually doing the work. Welcome back, Paul. How are you doing? I'm doing great, thanks. How

00:29the first of our recurring episodes together, which I guess before we get into it, I should

00:35probably lay out the premise of these monthly conversations to the audience in case anyone

00:40didn't catch our initial episode together. But most of the industry, or most industry professionals,

00:47they have had this discussion before. They really don't have the time to sit down and be on top of

00:53all of the policy and regulatory issues that ultimately shape so much of the industry and

00:58their business. And something that's being voted on now may not have an immediate impact on someone's

01:05business, but six months, a year, two years from now, 100% will. And I am no expert by any

01:14means in

01:15this world. I'm a layperson at best, but you are. And as head of the CNBA, you've got this,

01:21a really rare and a fantastic perspective of both being, you know, your boots on the ground,

01:28really in the trenches, fighting the fight, but also you have a 10,000 foot view, like I said,

01:35which is really rare, and it gives you a unique voice. So you're going to be coming on every month

01:42to share what's happening in the world of policy and regulatory issues. And on top of that, I know that

01:49you'll be able to provide insight into why advocacy is so important and for ways for professionals

01:57to be involved, you know, let your voice be heard, take part in shaping the industry. Does that sum up

02:04what we're trying to do here?

02:05That's my friend. Yep, 100%. I mean, you have to look at the, once you understand the regulatory

02:11landscape and what's coming down the pipeline, it really gives leaders in the industry, whether

02:18you're a lender or solution provider, even a housing wire and understanding as to, you know,

02:24where the industry is heading. It gives you a great opportunity to, you know, to support growth,

02:31to be ready for those regulation changes. But, you know, in the wake of really understanding

02:40state and federal law, it allows you to kind of get in front of it. It gives you a bird's

02:46eye view as

02:46to where things are going. And it really does truly create great opportunity for efficiencies

02:53on the operation side, increasing production, because you can see where, you know, what's coming

03:01down the pipeline for new products, right? It's kind of a telescope, if you will. So in our

03:08conversations, yeah, we'll get granular and talk about bills and, you know, the road to housing,

03:12what California is doing, other states are doing. But, you know, I think I'm really excited about

03:19taking that information and operationalizing it. You know, what do you do with it, right? So I'm so

03:25excited about the opportunity to be on Powerhouse with you on a monthly basis, Zeb. I want to say

03:32thank you for that opportunity. And I think the industry is really going to enjoy it.

03:36Yeah, I do too. Couldn't be happy that you're here. So, okay, let's tell me, we got several things to

03:41talk about. We got CRA proposal, we got mortgage portability, pace financing, money for disaster

03:48rebuilding, forbearance reform, road housing, a lot. So let's start with the big one, I guess,

03:55CRA. There was a push this year to create a California version of the Community Reinvestment

04:02Act and the independent mortgage banks. So initially, what was proposed and where did it

04:08ultimately, where did it end up? So AB 801 California CRA bill came in. And what it wanted

04:16to do was impose California's specific community reinvestment framework on independent banks,

04:23even though IMBs don't accept deposits, or operate like a traditional bank. So what this would have

04:31done is created huge duplicate examination efforts, new compliance costs, regulatory obligations that

04:41have nothing really to do with IMBs. Because the framework was very similar to the federal CRA bill.

04:48But this bill, AB 801, took that framework, was imposing it just in California, directed at IMBs,

04:57which when you sit back and think about it, really doesn't make any sense. Because the federal CRA bill

05:02is all about depositories, deposits that are made, and those being reinvested in the community.

05:09On top of which, you know, to be to be frank, even though I'm not frank, but to be frank,

05:17IMBs in the state of California are responsible for 82% of the loans that funded in low to moderate

05:24income

05:24areas. So for all intents and purposes, IMBs are already, you know, supporting what the federal CRA bill

05:34is all about. So we worked that was that was a long bill, that was a two year bill. And

05:40we worked

05:40tirelessly with our lobbyists. We actually also brought in additional lobbyists, a huge amount of

05:48money, went into what I can finally say the bill was defeated. So AB 801 will not be moving forward.

05:55Okay. All right. Let's take a step back. I think it's easy. I mean, I do this on a,

06:00I just said earlier, I'm a layperson in this, in this space. And even whenever I have conversations,

06:06I, I tend to assume that, that, you know, that people are at my level. And oftentimes they're,

06:12they're not because they don't live in the space like, like I do. Can you kind of underscore what the

06:17the federal CRA bill is and what its intended purpose was? Yeah. So the federal CRA bill,

06:25and so the, it's intended purpose is to support low to moderate income housing. So it's, you know,

06:33it's aimed at building up communities, local communities. So if you have, if you're a federally,

06:39if you're a federally deposited banking institution that you walk in and you make deposits,

06:46the amount of money of the, you know, there's a percentage of that deposit that's, that's made

06:51at a federal bank, that's supposed to be reinvested back into the community, into low to moderate

06:59income communities. And so that's how the, that's how the, the federal bill sits. Now I, I can't tell

07:08you the exact percentage of what that looks like. But that, that's the, that's the federal bill itself.

07:14So let me ask you this, because I think this is, it's important to have a kind of perspective into

07:20the minds and the, the, the motivations of, you know, lawmakers and the decision makers that again,

07:28you are, that you're interacting with. And, and this is anecdotal. This is just your opinion and

07:34perspective that I'm, that I'm looking for the, you know, is it, do you find in these kinds of

07:42situations, the lawmakers at the, at the state level are looking at like, oh, this, this, you know,

07:48this federal bill has good intentions. This makes sense. So let us just duplicate it,

07:55overlay it onto our system. Like the road to hell is, is paved with good intentions, sort of a

08:01perspective or mindset.

08:02Yeah, I think that's really what it is. That's a, that's a great point of view, Zeb.

08:06Um, but I think where, you know, where the biggest support comes from, uh, advocacy associations like

08:14the California MBA and other state MBAs is the lawmaker doesn't understand the intricates of

08:21that bill. So this specific author, you know, had great intentions. Let's support the community,

08:29especially in California, right? It's so overpriced. Housing affordability is a, is a huge,

08:34you know, uh, a topic of conversation and it's absolutely on the docket for California MBA,

08:41uh, in our next legislative year where we're, we're full force on it. So the intentions were good,

08:47you know, to, to support the community where the slip up was is to, to have it be directed

08:55specifically and only to IMBs because as the bill is written, it's a copy of the federal, uh, uh,

09:04CRA bill. Um, and that bill is again, specifically for depository, uh, banks in depository institutions.

09:12So they took the same bill and had it, had it as directed to IMBs. And that's where the, the,

09:19the first, you know, kind of, I don't want to say misstep, but that's where the first gap was.

09:24And, and, and as an association and advocacy association, that that's our job is to educate

09:30the lawmaker on, okay, well look at what the wording of this, right? Like you've got you, it's a,

09:36it's a, it's a bill designed to be specific towards federally deposited, uh, uh, institutions

09:43where deposits are made, uh, and IMBs don't accept deposits where we do mortgages only. Um,

09:50yeah. So intentions, you know, we could say for every bill that's created, the intentions are

09:57really good and strong. Um, there just needs to be this additional level of education and knowledge

10:05to the author or the proposed, you know, the, the, uh, individual that's the organization or

10:10individual that, that has created the bill on the, this is actually the outcome of what,

10:16of what this bill says. Right. Well, so let me ask you this. If you're, I mean, California is,

10:23you know, y'all have dealt with this, but, uh, there's, there's, uh, no indication that another

10:28state, uh, won't have to in the future at any given point. So, uh, if I'm, you know, if I'm,

10:34uh, an IMB, you know, executive in, in another state and, uh, this, this hasn't come up yet,

10:40or there's whisperings that, uh, something like this, uh, could in the future, what,

10:46what would you recommend I take away from this and, uh, and, you know, learn from how,

10:51how it played out with, uh, California. So that's a really good question. Uh, and I would break that,

10:58my response would be into like, let's fork that. So for like a lender, um, a lot of lenders like,

11:05uh, TLS, uh, you know, they're starting to bring in, uh, uh, individuals, uh, professionals to run

11:11like a governance department, uh, NFM has won, you know, rate rocket, the larger lenders.

11:17And, uh, what that does is it helps get, keep, it helps keep them abreast as to how the,

11:23what the regulatory environment is doing state by state. So that when a CRA bill in the state of

11:30California or in the state of Washington comes up, they can divert to how we fought and won

11:36and utilize the same or close to the same methodology. Um, so I think first and foremost,

11:43that that's something really important to, you know, to, to, uh, for, for listeners to,

11:49to, to take into account. Um, as well as then, I would also say that for, for, uh, the listeners

11:56of

11:56the podcast to, you know, sync up with your local state and local association, um, to ensure that you're,

12:04you know, you're on those legislative calls and you're hearing what's going on. Um, if there's

12:09not a commingle of a relationship, you know, by all means, we would be more than willing to share

12:16on any of the bills that we, uh, defeat or, or support, you know, how, how we won the battle,

12:22so to speak. Gotcha. Okay. All right. Well, uh, let's up next on my, uh, checklist of things to,

12:28to run by is mortgage portability. Uh, there was a mortgage, there was a bill to seniors basically

12:35carry their existing, uh, rate and loan terms to a new home. And I think, but I mean, that's on

12:42its

12:42face. That sounds great for, uh, for the, for the consumers, but, um, what's the, what's the rub?

12:49What's the problem there? Well, the challenge is that a mortgage is underwritten and priced for

12:54a specific borrower property lien position and investor. And it's often part of a securitized

13:01pool. So it's not like, you know, this one loan has one specific lender or investor on it, right?

13:09It's, it's a, it's, it's a pool of in, uh, loans and probably a pool of investors. So requiring

13:16portability could have, uh, conflicted with investor agreements, uh, disrupted the security

13:22market execution and force lenders to absorb below market financing. And that's why the California

13:28NBA came in to help narrow the proposal to a state study, um, which was ultimately held,

13:35uh, held in appropriation. So the bill is stalled now. Um, and so what we're going to do is,

13:41is we're going to kind of help walk through again, educating on, you know, assumable mortgages in the

13:47late, uh, I believe it was the late seventies was kind of a hot ticket. Uh, people would list their

13:52homes with an assumable mortgage because rates at one point in time were really low and they started

13:57to escalate. So it was seen as, um, you know, advantageous to, to move real estate. And it makes

14:05sense for something, you know, a couple of decades ago, now we've got a much different pool of,

14:12of loan types. Right. And so it's, it becomes too tricky when you're looking at the variety of

14:19securitized loans and what that could mean in that pool of investors. Um, and, and what it could mean

14:26to, you know, the lender themselves as well. Right. And then again, what it would start to do to the

14:33secondary market if this kind of took shape great again, on just another example of a great idea,

14:39you know, face value. But once you start to explain the intricate details and how that really

14:45affects the industry, ultimately affecting the consumer, that's when our lawmakers sit back and

14:51go, okay, well, I didn't, you know, I didn't, I didn't realize that it would have that it would go

14:55deep and wide basically. Okay. Yeah. All right. So this is, this is a, this is a big, big picture,

15:00uh, question for you. Cause I, you know, I, uh, and it, it calls into the, um, not, not the,

15:08the,

15:08the limits, but like the, the feasibility of, um, of, of reform and like the, the, the, the mortgage

15:17portability thing, I don't think that's going away anytime soon because they have it in, they have

15:20it in Europe and I know they have it, uh, in, uh, Israel as well. And, uh, and I, I

15:25think that

15:26the, the, the, the infrastructure fundamentally in Europe and in other countries where there are

15:33these, these, uh, portable mortgages, it's just, it's vastly different than the way that our, our,

15:39our home buyer mortgage, uh, system and industry is set up fundamentally, fundamentally. And so do

15:44you ever think, I mean, do you think that when people get frustrated with the lack of affordability

15:50and our affordability issues and what they see is lack of, uh, you know, lack of real product

15:56innovation, right? I mean, like, I think most people big picture would see all more, you know,

16:02the vast majority of mortgage products as variations of the 30 year, 15 year fix basically. Right. And

16:09even, and even then a lot of times that's really tied to qualification, getting you into the home,

16:15but not the actual mortgage itself. So what do you, what do you think are the, the, the limits of,

16:24like you said, you know, product innovation in regards to something like mortgage portability? Like

16:30how, how much do you think is actually, if we were, if we wanted to make that work, you know,

16:36how much would fundamentally need to be changed? Well, specifically for mortgage portability, I think

16:44a lot would have to be changed because it, you know, it, it ties to what happens on the back

16:49end

16:49of the loan oftentimes. And I think this is to your point. Oftentimes we think about mortgages

16:54on the origination side and the underwriting side. And we forget there's this whole, it's almost like a

17:00whole subset of an industry, if you will, where, you know, it's the backend, it's the, it's the

17:06servicing in the, in the investment, which ultimately tied to the origination because there are guides of

17:12the investment, you know, the investor guidelines. Right. Um, so, you know, it was interesting though,

17:19as you were talking, I mean, I think that, you know, certain things happen in history, which,

17:25which you learn from history. Right. And so we learned a lot as an industry from, uh, you know,

17:32uh, the great recession, the downturn in the economy, that housing crisis, whatever you want to call it

17:38as an industry, we learned that there's gotta be on paper qualification. You have to qualify in some

17:47form. You know, I, I would venture to say that I think that the industry as a whole,

17:54it has started to open up to, we can look at different ways to qualify a consumer. So I'm not

18:03necessarily arguing what you're with what you're saying, but I think that our industry is bending

18:09to the need of the consumer right now. I think our industry has opened up and said, Hey, you have

18:15a W two job and you're one of those 30% of the homeowners also, you know, does side hustles

18:22and

18:22gig economy and, you know, can't document via W two income, but you've got that money and we can see

18:29it.

18:29We've got a way now to qualify you, you know, in the, in the non-agency non-QM marketplace,

18:35which is, is growing substantially. So, you know, the only thing I would say to your statement,

18:42Zeb is maybe on the agency side, there becomes a little bit more of an openness to how the consumer

18:50is changing. What are the needs to the consumer, which would bring in line some of those programs

18:55that are on the non-agency side? So I just answered your, it took me a hot second to get

19:01there, but I

19:01got there. And I think, you know, it'd be really interesting to see, you know, our, our agencies,

19:08FHFA, Fannie and Freddie to take a look at, let's look at who the consumer is. How are they making

19:14their

19:14money? Cause it sure isn't the same way, you know, as it was in 1980, right? It's changed how we

19:21all make

19:21our money has changed. The fact that we're, you know, uh, uh, you know, remote working, right.

19:27And, and, and all those things about the consumer has changed multiple generations living in one

19:31house. Well, you know, that should account for some type of income coming in or reduction in expense,

19:37right? Right. Totally. Um, okay, good pace, pace, uh, pace, um, uh, lean expansion. Uh, there was

19:46an effort to expand it, to cover the wildfire safety improvements and it was stopped. So for,

19:53for anyone that is, uh, maybe only vaguely aware of pace, can you, uh, can you catch us up to

19:59speed

19:59on, on what it is and ultimately why it was, uh, uh, why it was stopped? Well, yeah. So the,

20:06the first

20:07priority position can weaken the collateral, right? That that's what the issue is. Um, and the collateral,

20:13it secures the mortgage, which creates conflict with, again, with the agency and investor,

20:19uh, requirements and makes the property more difficult to sell or refinance. And that's why

20:25the California NBA came in and opposed the bill. Um, because those opposed the bill until those

20:32concerns were addressed. Um, and, and the bill again was stopped in Senate appropriation.

20:38So, you know, it, it goes back to, you know, oddly enough, both these bills really relate to what

20:45happens after the bill has been secured. I'm sorry, after the mortgage or the loan has been

20:50securitized and what happens in the, in the secondary market. Um, you know, we really wanted to make sure

20:57that in all of our efforts, when we talk about, you know, AB 179, the disaster rebuild assistance

21:03program or the forbearance bills, we want to make sure that there's benefit and, and support for

21:09natural disaster victims, you know, specifically the wildfires in Southern California, uh, but all

21:15natural disasters in California. And honestly, to be frank with you, not to go on a tangent, but

21:19we're, we're, we're trying to set the bar for other States to, you know, see a disaster relief

21:25program in a box type thing. Um, but this one again, really, you know, uh, SB 1041, uh,

21:31pace financing really affects, uh, the, the securitization because of the position of the

21:37lean for it or on it.

21:40And there's some version of this exists right in other States as well. So what's the, like,

21:44what would you say is the, the, the, the warning or the heads up, the takeaway for people, you

21:51know, outside of, uh, outside of California professionals outside of California?

21:55Well, so in, in regards specifically to this bill, I mean, you have to, you have to look at

22:00the details of the intricates of the bill, because it wasn't in, you know, it wasn't front face.

22:04It was D it was buried in the bill about the, uh, the, the securitization and that it would

22:10be, it would become the first priority position, uh, which would definitely weaken, you know,

22:16the collateral. Cause what happens to the second position, first position, if there's a default

22:22or foreclosure, which often happens in natural disasters, if the property is, you know, closer

22:28to being destroyed than not, uh, the second position would, would lose out. Right. So my,

22:35I guess my overall Archie message would be, you know, scrutinize the bills, like read all the way

22:40through them again, you know, make sure that you've got someone, if you're a lender on the

22:45governance side internally, or you're synced up with, uh, an advocacy advocacy association,

22:51a state MBA association. Okay. All right. So, uh, kind of the, maybe the, uh, the flip side of this

23:00issue, I guess would be the kind of the disaster rebuilding fund. California put, uh, quite a bit

23:05of money behind the disaster rebuilding fund this year. Yeah. Uh, can you unpack that? What, you know,

23:12what is it? It's, I think it sounds common sense. Like who's it for, but, uh, go ahead and spell

23:16that

23:16out and what should, uh, what should lenders be doing about it now? Yeah. So I, I was really

23:21impressed with the way that the governor's office, you know, uh, I will say, you know, when I stepped

23:27in this office, I think we talked about it before, when I stepped into the position as CEO of the

23:31California MBA, my, my thought and concept is to innovate advocacy through collaboration and that's

23:37collaboration with housing wire and California MBA are members in the California MBA, but also the,

23:43the government offices and the assembly members, I didn't want to see this, you know, this dissonant

23:49or disconnect, like they don't like home financing, you know, they don't like IMBs and we don't like

23:55them. It was more about coming together. And I really think that was a large portion of the success

24:00of AB 179, the disaster rebuilding assistance program. The bills were, uh, written out great,

24:08a fantastic bill, a hundred million dollars in the May revise, which got approved at the end of July.

24:13Um, great thing about it, all natural disasters in the state of California, right? Um, the program

24:20goes through Cal HFA funds can be used for a multitude of ways and the purpose and really the

24:26purpose behind it is three things either, uh, to support, uh, to reduce payment shock. So a lot of

24:34the homes, our partners at Quotality give us ridiculous amount of data showing that like 65% of the homes

24:40that had liens on them had refi when rates dipped down to two, seven to, you know, 4%, right? Now

24:48those rates are at six and a half, seven or whatever the case may be. Um, so the disaster relief

24:54funds can

24:54be used as a buy down for the construction loan and, or the permanent loan. Um, we can also use

25:01those,

25:02uh, uh, uh, the funds from the disaster, uh, rebuild assistance program via Cal HFA, uh, to support,

25:11uh, securitization of the permanent loan with our construction lenders. And we're looking to see if

25:18we can also use to help bridge the gap between the actual, um, uh, uh, cost to rebuild versus what

25:26the

25:27insurance company is going to pay out, right? Because prices have increased. And now because

25:32of where some of these homes are, uh, permit offices and planning departments are requiring,

25:38uh, you know, certain things to be done to the home. If they're in a, you know, a high fire

25:43hazard

25:44area, like whole house sprinkler systems. So the, the disaster relief, uh, the disaster rebuilding

25:49assistance, uh, bill AB 179 is there to be used, uh, you know, through a Cal HFA in conjunction with

25:58rebuilding. So your construction loan, and it's a simultaneous close, right? So let's say you do

26:04a one-time close with CMG and your interest rate is seven, and you can only qualify for like a

26:114%

26:11because of payment shock. You can use the funds to buy down that permanent loan all the way down to

26:18that

26:184% help you qualify, get your payments exactly where, where you were before the disaster reoccurred.

26:25And there were also, there was some, there were some, uh, uh, forbearance bills that came out of

26:30the wildfires. Yeah. We had a couple of forbearance bills. Yeah. And so I believe they, there was, uh,

26:36quite a bit of negotiation before, you know, landing on the final bill. Can you, I mean, what,

26:41what changed between what was proposed and, uh, the final ones and, um, why, I guess, why,

26:49why are those changes important? Well, the, I, I want to touch on the, I think the one that stuck

26:55out most to us was AB 1847. So the, uh, the, that bill came out wanting to extend forbearance

27:02without investor approval, uh, or, or, or, or servicer approval or subservicer approval,

27:10just an automatic blanket, either to extend it by two years or three years. Right. And so one

27:17where you created your own, like you created a portal for that. We did. Yeah. The California NBA,

27:22we created a portal for the entire disaster relief effort. So it's actually in conjunction with,

27:28you know, um, AB one seven nine. Uh, so it's, the portal was created and it's going to land on

27:36Cal HFA site. Uh, and it links in our construction lenders with the program. Um, and, and it supports

27:43the, it's for the consumer so they can see what, what type of loan they would qualify for. So like

27:48it's a rules-based portal that has the guidelines from, uh, CMG and, uh, guilt or construction lenders

27:56that, that jumped in. Um, so yeah, we did create the portal. So the, uh, AB 1847, it wanted to

28:04give

28:04this blanket two or three year forbearance. And, and, you know, again, this just goes back to

28:09educating Zeb. I mean, it's all, you know, good intention. Like these, these, uh, homeowners are

28:15scrambling, right? They've been displaced. They can't get permits moving. They can't get planning

28:20moving because the soil is still contaminated. Like it's, you know, it's a, it's, it's a, it's a long

28:26road. And so the idea is we'll grant them the ability to not make a mortgage payment because

28:31now they're, they're paying, you know, temporary housing because insurance only goes for a year on

28:36that. And they haven't even been able to start rebuilding. And so what we had to do was educate

28:41the lawmakers on, you know, some of these loans on the note that they signed, it says that, you know,

28:48there's, there's a, there's a terminology in that note and the, and the securitization

28:53that forbearance, you know, it's only for a year. Some of the investors don't allow forbearance

29:00outside of that year. Um, on top of which, you know, we need to make sure that the consumer is

29:06moving forward or the victims moving forward with a rebuild effort. So all we did was massage that

29:12bill that to show that, you know, what we want to do is, is we want to have the consumer

29:17come back

29:18and say, I need more forbearance. Well, why, you know, where are you in the, in the, in the build

29:23process, you know, have permits been approved? Do you have plans, you know, contractor architect, and

29:30that's all part of the portal. Um, and then also shows where you are financially, like, you know, after

29:36the home is rebuilt, are you going to be okay with being able to make the payments? Um, so that's

29:42how the

29:42bill got reshaped. Uh, so as it stands now with, uh, AB 1847, anything beyond 12 months, will, uh, the

29:51servicer and lender, uh, has the ability to, uh, request documentation of, uh, continuing hardship,

29:59property condition, and rebuild progress. Well, and, you know, I think the, the bigger,

30:06one of the bigger questions underneath all this is that, you know, forbearance was built for,

30:11uh, one of a, one of a kind or once in a lifetime crisis. And now we've got these recurring

30:18disasters. Yeah. I mean, I just, I mean, I just waited out a tropical storm yesterday with serious

30:24flooding and, uh, there's historic flooding about two counties down from, uh, down from me, but I'm in,

30:29I'm in hurricane alley. And so, uh, floods in the Midwest. So this is a, is this like what you're

30:36seeing and what you've, what you've done in California? Is this a, you feel like this is

30:41a disaster recovery playbook that other states could adopt? Yeah, I really do. And that's that

30:47we, the California NBA went in with those intentions. Uh, so on top of, uh, how, how the

30:53forbearance bills have been crafted, the portal, we're also holding a one day forum, uh, at the end

30:59of September in Southern California. And the purpose behind that forum is to, you know, largely

31:05announce the program with Cal HFA. So the disaster recovery, uh, uh, program, um, you know, the funds

31:11that are sitting at Cal HFA for the consumers to use, uh, you know, uh, so, so we want to

31:17make sure

31:18the consumer hears that, but we also want the consumer to hear from the industry. And so there's

31:24going to be a little bit of stage time, you know, some short presentations outside of this

31:29is the program and this is how it works for you. And then we're setting up, uh, these network

31:33tables in the hall. Uh, we're going to have servicers there. We're going to have the planning

31:37office there. We're going to have the permit office there, insurance companies, construction

31:42lenders, um, habitat for humanity is going to be there. And we want the consumers to be able

31:48to sit down at these tables with these professionals and say, my name is XYZ. This is my address.

31:55Where's my permit? Why is it taking so long? Uh, we want them to be able to sit down with

32:00an

32:00insurance company and say, why didn't I get my payout? I have to pay my contractor. What's

32:05the holdup? So it's a, it's a kind of a resource center for a day for all the, all the

32:10fire in

32:12our case, fire victims to come in and, and, and find the detail in one place. And hopefully what

32:18happens is that once they hear that detail, then they can go over to the insurance company

32:22and say, okay, the permit right over there said XYZ. So I'm going to do XYZ and then I'm

32:28going to turn it into my insurance company. What should I expect? Right? So kind of information

32:33at your fingertips. So to your point, California NBA really wants to support the entire nation,

32:39every state in this, you know, insurance or I'm sorry, natural disaster in a box. The portal

32:47is set up to where any state can, can create it, customize it for themselves. Um, the forum pop-up

32:54event, very easy to put together. Uh, and, and, and I believe states could look at how, uh, you know,

33:01Governor Newsom's office put together, uh, you know, the disaster relief effort. Um, so I, I plan on

33:07talking to states or some have reached out to us, Washington, Oregon, uh, New Mexico about an

33:14interest in how this was crafted and put together. And, and, and we do plan on obviously sharing that

33:20information as that was the intent and purpose behind it. Well, I definitely plan on you talking

33:25about it at the mortgage banking summit, uh, with, uh, it's going to be a cheap, a cheap, uh, shameless

33:30plug here, but this is going out in September and October 1st mortgage banking summit and October 1st,

33:35and you are going to be on stage with Scott Norman from the Texas NBA. And this is one of

33:41the, uh,

33:42one of the points of the discussion because, you know, between California, we were thinking about

33:48this, like between California and Texas, you kind of very, very, very different, um, you know, from,

33:55from a cultural standpoint and economic standpoint, but you, but you got the, you know, two of the

34:00largest states in the, in the country of the oldest, uh, NBA, which is Texas. You have the largest NBA,

34:05which is California, but you, like you add them together and divide by two and you, you have America,

34:11like generally speaking, and there's so much as different as the states are both politically and

34:15culturally. There's such an overlap between demographic changes and environmental, you know,

34:21issues, your, your overall impact on the country at large and, uh, and how that, you know, rolls

34:28downhill. So, uh, I'm very much looking forward to that session with you and, uh, you and Scott

34:33and, and talking this through on, on stage. I'm super pumped about it. I can't wait to be on your

34:38stage. The, the hall is fantastic. Uh, how's it where always puts out a great show. You've got

34:44a brilliant lineup and, and I am looking forward to my, uh, time on stage with you're gonna,

34:49you're moderating, right? It's going to be you and Scott and I, uh, it's gonna be Sarah.

34:53Sarah. Sarah's gonna be. Yeah. Um, okay. Well, okay. We got a,

34:57I got, that was a total, uh, squirrel. I was just, I got sidetracked there, but, um,

35:02let's zoom out to the federal level, uh, before we, before we wrap up, we've got, uh, uh, the

35:07Road to Housing Act and last episode, we kind of broke it down, um, uh, a bit, but it's, you

35:14know,

35:14it's, it's had a little while to breathe now. And I'm curious from your perspective, you know,

35:19what's happening. One of the questions that we talked about, I had last, last time was about

35:22implementation. Uh, you know, has anything changed as, uh, about what originators should

35:27be expecting from it? What's your take on where Road to Housing sits right now?

35:32Yeah, it's, and I think we talked about this last, excuse me, last time, Zeb. It's a,

35:36it's a long play. Um, at its core, the law is designed to help address the housing shortage

35:41by reducing barriers to housing development and making it easier to finance the construction

35:49of more homes. Um, it includes, uh, important reforms to federal housing programs and expands

35:55the opportunity for affordable mortgage credit, which I think is really important. Um, and that,

36:02that's part of the act detail, right? But for our industry that matters because the housing supply

36:08and housing finance are directly connected supply and demand. Um, we can't improve housing affordability

36:15without both building more homes that are more aligned with, you know, the low to moderate income

36:23levels, um, and more homes, uh, ensuring consumers can access responsible mortgage financing. So that's

36:32the, that's at its core, the purpose behind, uh, the Road to Housing Act. I think that, you know, it's

36:38a,

36:39it's a, it's a great bill. Um, I'm glad that we were able to finally get it through. Um, but

36:44again,

36:45it's a long, it's a long-term play. So I put the onus on the individual states now, uh, to

36:51work with,

36:52uh, you know, not, I'm not plugging, but to work with other state, uh, MBAs on what we can do

36:59with

36:59affordability. And I think that it's time that we really dig into, you know, what does that look

37:04like for our industry? What does that look like for the county? And what does that look like for the

37:09state? Because I think each one has a little bit of a, you know, uh, a varying degree of, of

37:15issues.

37:15I know in California, you know, we just went over, um, uh, you know, in one of California NBA's executive

37:23forums, and I have, again, a whole bunch of information and data from quotality. You know, when you look

37:28at the coastline of California, that's obviously the most expensive. As you start moving into the central,

37:33the prices start to drop a lot, but what happens to a single mom with two kids that has a

37:39job,

37:39maybe she can afford a house, you know, somewhere else, but she loses her, um, you know, her, her

37:47core support group. Like she uses family members or, or job or, you know, schooling. So it also becomes

37:56this community participation, which does circle back to the CRA bill, but written properly for

38:03depository institutions. So when you look at affordable housing, you know, you're looking

38:09at cost, you're looking at supply, you're looking at demand. You also have to look at obviously

38:14geographic location of where you're talking about having said affordable housing to ensure that it,

38:21it really helps those that it's supposed to help. Does that make sense?

38:24Yeah, totally. Yeah. Um, okay. I got last question. Uh, again, this is a very, very broad

38:32general question, but of all the topics that we have, all the things that we've covered,

38:37these general topics as manifested through the, the bills that we've discussed,

38:43what is one topic, one area that a mortgage professional that you would recommend a mortgage

38:49professionals pay attention to study up on, uh, become generally knowledgeable about this month?

38:57Um, so I'd give it a little bit longer than a month. I'd say like, you know, start now and

39:02throughout the year, uh, pay attention to affordable housing. It's a hot topic, both federal and state

39:08level. And it's gonna, it, it, you'll, you'll find opportunity in it. Um, just as deep Haven found

39:16opportunity in the Dodd-Frank act, uh, you know, after the housing crash, there's going to be

39:22opportunity in affordable housing. So pay attention to what's going on, uh, locally, uh, in your state,

39:28uh, and, and federally to affordable housing.

39:31Excellent. Paul, thank you so much. Uh, this was, uh, this was great. I'm going to look forward to

39:35this every month. Yeah, it's going to be fun. Thank you, Zeb. I appreciate the opportunity,

39:39my friend. All right, buddy. See you next month. See you in October. See you in October. Sorry.

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