The business of access: LaTasha Waddy on leadership, the future of NFM, and inclusive lending

HousingWire

On this episode of Power House, Zeb Lowe sits down with LaTasha Waddy to discuss leadership, homeownership, and the future of mortgage lending.   Waddy shares her path from real estate law to leading NFM Lending, and why her first priority as president has been listening to the people closest to the work. She also discusses Lucas Home Loans, a mission-driven effort focused on expanding access to homeownership through lending, education, and technology.   The conversation explores why financial literacy may be a bigger barrier than credit access, the difference between mentorship and sponsorship, and how lenders must become more intentional about attracting the next generation of talent.   This episode is about playing the long game: building people, widening opportunity, and strengthening the future of homeownership.   Related to the episode:   ⁠Zeb Lowe’s LinkedIn⁠  https://www.linkedin.com/in/zebulon-lowe-a02353a4/  ⁠LaTasha Waddy's LinkedIn  https://www.linkedin.com/in/latasha-waddy-b8620911/  NFM Lending  https://nfmlending.com/  Lucas Home Loans  https://lucaslends.com/   The Power House podcast brings the biggest names in housing to answer hard-hitting questions about industry trends, operational and growth strategy, and leadership. Join HousingWire’s Zeb Lowe every Thursday morning for candid conversations with industry leaders to learn how they’re differentiating themselves from the competition. Hosted and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.

Transcript

00:00My guest today is Latasha Waddy. In addition to her role as president of NFM Lending, she has been doing

00:05amazing work on community development financial institutions aimed at expanding homeownership access for Black, Brown, and other communities of color.

00:13And she's one of the few executives in this industry who's taken that work outside of the office entirely, writing

00:19a children's book and building financial literacy content for teenagers.

00:24Today, we're going to get into her leadership philosophy, how she's thinking about the market cycle, and what actually works

00:30in underserved lending versus what just looks good on a press release.

00:34We also discuss her upcoming session at The Gathering.

00:48All right, Latasha, thank you for joining me.

00:51Thank you for having me.

00:52Yes, ma'am. So I've got a lot of stuff that I wanted to cover with you today.

00:57And before we, I wanted to talk strategy and leadership, but before we dive into all of that, I want

01:03to know, or I'm curious to know how you, how did you end up here?

01:07I mean, what drew you to the industry initially?

01:09Most people that I know, it's nothing really drew them.

01:12They kind of fall into it.

01:13But what about, what about you?

01:14What's your story?

01:16Yeah, it's the same thing.

01:17I fell into it, but I fell into it with a friend.

01:20I had a colleague that I had worked with in private practice when I graduated from law school.

01:27We were fast friends.

01:29She was on the regulatory side of the law firm.

01:33I was on the transactional side.

01:36We stayed friends for a long time.

01:39Fast forward to 2010.

01:412010, she was general counsel of NFM lending.

01:44And she asked if I was interested in coming in-house and leaving private practice.

01:50And my first question was, what does NFM stand for?

01:55And so met with the individuals here, met with the leadership, and I was sold on whatever it is that

02:02they were doing.

02:03I was like, I'm in.

02:05Okay.

02:05So you say you, from the transactional side of the firm, what cases, what sort of law were you practicing

02:10in?

02:11Really, everything related to real estate.

02:14So from soup to nuts, transactional, I represented a lot of builders.

02:19And so taking land, dividing the land, putting a subdivision on the land, putting a HOA in place, doing all

02:27of the development work, all of the financing behind that,

02:30and then passing that community off to the owners as the association.

02:35So I did a lot of that.

02:37I also did a lot of real estate development individuals in the D.C. area that were buying properties and

02:44converting them to condominiums, all the transactional work there.

02:48And then also title work.

02:50And so we had a settlement company at one of the firms that I worked for, and I did a

02:56lot of settlements and realized very quickly that this was not necessarily where I wanted to end my career,

03:03but it was a great start in terms of getting into the mortgage space.

03:07And then lastly, before I joined NFM, I was actually doing a lot of the workout transactions from the Great

03:16Recession.

03:17So Fannie and Freddie had tasked several law firms with going through documentation to determine where there were missteps, if

03:25there was fraud, so that we can exercise our repurchase rights.

03:29And so that's what I was doing right before I started at NFM in 2010.

03:33Did you ever get full around with or get involved with like tenant disputes or anything like that?

03:39Yes.

03:40Fortunately, unfortunately, it's known to people in the D.C. area, but D.C., much like New York, has a

03:48lot of tenant rights.

03:49So they have a lot of rights related to tenants having a first right of refusal if the owner wants

03:56to sell the property.

03:57And so, yes, we represented a lot of landlords in my prior life.

04:03And even now, I'm on a board for an affordable housing developer.

04:08And so even in that, I get into some of the landlord-tenant issues that we're having as the owner

04:15of the property.

04:16I see.

04:16So the background that brought you up more through the legal side of the business was – it's just not

04:25typical.

04:26It's not a typical runway to becoming the president of a lending institution.

04:30So I'm curious to know when you – moving from CLO to president, in my imagination, that would be a

04:40significant gear shift in that your – any role that you're tasked with filling, there is a lens in which

04:46you view or you filter your decision-making, your decision-making process.

04:49So when you shifted over, was there a mental transition or a mental shift that you had to adopt a

04:57different lens from more legal-focused or even risk-averse focus to this new role?

05:04No, that is – that's a great question.

05:06I actually get that a lot.

05:08I get that mostly from my legal colleagues because they're like, how'd you do it?

05:13So I'm a business attorney through and through, and I'm also the daughter and the sister of business owners, very

05:20successful business owners.

05:22And so I have been around business, around entrepreneurship for a very long – for my whole life, honestly.

05:30And so coming to NFM was ideal because I was able to not just represent the organization but really be

05:38in the business of the organization, which was perfect for me.

05:42And I was fortunate enough to work with individuals who really enjoyed my curiosity.

05:49And so very early on, I wanted to know about capital markets and how that works.

05:54I wanted to know about operations and underwriting and risk and how technology plays into all of this.

06:02And so on top of the fact that, yes, I represented the organization in regulatory exams and litigation and did

06:10all those things, I very much was a part of the business conversation, the entire experience here.

06:16And so when David Silverman, our founder, was talking about what succession looked like for him, because with any organization,

06:26especially mortgage industry, either you're going to sell to another player in the industry or you're going to do that,

06:35or you're going to figure out a path where the organization succeeds the founders or the visionary.

06:41And so in those conversations with David Silverman, I put my name in the hat, essentially, and said, listen, if

06:50you're thinking of some sort of transition, what's going to be the least disruptive?

06:56Where can I add more value to this organization?

07:00And what does that look like from a title perspective, from a leadership perspective?

07:04And so it certainly was a conversation that went on for several months before the official announcement.

07:11But nevertheless, I just feel much more seated in this role.

07:17I feel much more that I can give more value in this role and that I can take all of

07:23the legal knowledge that I know and really combine it with my business acumen and really just continue to serve

07:30this organization and do it at a much higher level.

07:34Yeah, you know, you became president at a really interesting moment in the market where this is, it's just a,

07:42it's a strange market, historically speaking, right?

07:46There's so much happening, but at the same time, there's kind of a weird, eerie calm kind of overlaid over

07:54that, which I don't really know how to quite verbalize very well.

07:57You know, taking over this role, what are the first, I don't know, two or three things that you really

08:05put your hands on to set the tone, like not the long-term vision, but immediate, you know, this is

08:11who we are now, moving forward?

08:13Listening. So this year is really intended on me listening to the sales team, listening to the other business leaders

08:25and really listening from their perspective on what they would like to see in this role as, as the president

08:33of the organization.

08:34So the first thing I'm doing is I'm really listening. I think the second thing, which I've been chomping at

08:39the bit to get to is recruiting.

08:42I do think that being a lawyer and convincing someone to pay four or $500 for your services, especially a

08:51transactional lawyer, that's salesmanship.

08:55So, or that's salespersonship. So for sure, I have a background of trying to convince people that they should either

09:04use my services.

09:06And so recruiting feels a lot more aligned than I think a lot of people think about if they're thinking

09:12about an attorney.

09:14The second thing, well, the third thing I would say really is community.

09:19And so much of what I love and much of what I do focuses around community, focuses around financial literacy.

09:28And so, you know, for sure, my stand up, my mission, my why is to increase homeownership.

09:35And and there we are in really interesting times.

09:40And for some, it's like what is happening right now?

09:44I'm like, can't be more excited because there's this convergence of technology meets, you know, consumer experience meets margin compression

09:55meets consolidation.

09:56And so and then, you know, forget about what's happening in the administration and how they're thinking through what happens

10:04with the CFPB.

10:06And so based on my experience and my background, this is I feel like I'm meant for the moment, quite

10:13honestly.

10:14Right. I think you just answered it.

10:17But I want to I wanted to ask you this specifically because I was very curious about this.

10:20I've seen it. You and I haven't had a conversation before, so I guess I came up to the mortgage

10:27side of the industry as well.

10:30I was an originator for several years before I was recruited to the corporate side.

10:34And so I know the inner workings, I guess, of executive level leadership at a mortgage company.

10:41And this is what I was very curious to ask, because I've seen it happen multiple times and it's been

10:45handled different ways by people in your position, because I want to talk to you about the about the trust

10:53and the buy in from your LOs.

10:55Yeah. You know, on the whole, originators can be skeptical, I think is a is a is a gracious term.

11:03I have a lot of them listening because they can be skeptical.

11:08And rightly so. Anyone, anyone in a leadership position that hasn't originated, you know, they that has not interacted with

11:14with with a homebuyer and are making big decisions in many regards on their behalf that affect their relationships, affects

11:21their bottom dollar.

11:22And, you know, how leadership or how leaders establish that trust, establish that LO from the get go is it

11:31shadows most of the relationship moving forward.

11:34So how did you establish that trust and get their buy in?

11:39I know that you've been there previously for years as a CLO, but how did you manage that?

11:44I've been I've never separated myself from the sales team.

11:48And the reality is there is an evolution that's happened really post 2014, where there's a lot of regulation around

11:58disclosing to consumers.

12:00Trade happened. A lot of things happen.

12:02Respa enforcement, et cetera.

12:04And so who were the salespeople going to to set up their marketing service agreements or who were they going

12:11to to talk about closing transactions and CDs?

12:15They were coming to our department. And so for me, I developed this relationship very quickly with our sales team

12:23because there's a certain reliance, I will say, on on compliance, on legal and that it's nothing like getting sued

12:32together that bonds you.

12:34So, yeah, it's trauma bonding. And so very much so when individuals were coming to join the organization, I was

12:46really their first stop.

12:47And because I really tried to be relatable and make it less scary and tell them it's going to be

12:54OK, you have to do these things to stay in compliance with your former employer.

13:00And then also, of course, leading them through all of the regulatory shifts.

13:05It builds a certain level of trust.

13:08And then ultimately getting to know people.

13:12I've never been one in my team knows this.

13:15You know, don't come to me with a problem unless you have a solution that you're willing to suggest.

13:22And so with our sales team, I always wanted to not just say no.

13:28I wanted to think through business opportunity.

13:31Where where can we, you know, risk assess the question, how can we get through?

13:36How can we make this business go and support each other in a way that they feel like there's a

13:43success there?

13:44And I do, too, from a regulatory or legal or a compliance standpoint.

13:49But I really love business.

13:51So I'm a business lawyer.

13:53And I always say this, you know, even when I was a CLO, I would say that I represent I'm

14:00a I'm in a business attorney that works for a mortgage company.

14:04And and that very much is is true.

14:08And I do love my salespeople.

14:10We have some of the best sales leadership.

14:14And I'm curious about what they're doing, what they're building, how I can help them succeed.

14:19And this is just how NFM has done it.

14:23I've only worked for one mortgage company.

14:26And so I don't have a frame of reference how it's done anywhere else.

14:30But my experience is I've been lockstep with my sales team the entire 15 years.

14:38So and then when the announcement was made, I called around and I said, what do you think about this?

14:47You know, how are you how are you feeling about this?

14:49What can you tell me I should be doing as the president?

14:54And the majority said you're already doing it.

14:56Just keep doing it.

14:57OK, so you I wanted to talk to you about Lucas.

15:02You mentioned financial literacy, which ties into the large conversation that I wanted to have with you or part of

15:08you want to have you.

15:09Can you talk to me about Lucas Home Loans?

15:11Start with what what it is really, I guess.

15:14Can you share with the audience what a CDFI is and what Lucas is and and how maybe that differs

15:20from a traditional lending shop?

15:22Sure.

15:23So Lucas Home Loans, we historically, NFM has been very good in fair lending, very good in stepping into the

15:33SPCP space, very good in determining where there's opportunity to reach consumers.

15:40That may not be coming in from a traditional method, whether they're first generation, first time homeowner, women, consumers, single

15:49women consumers.

15:50Whereas like we've been so good about taking this data and seeing where the opportunity is to dig deeper.

15:57And so Lucas Home Loans was started really an idea about how do we meet this moment where the data

16:06is showing us that this next generation is going to be, you know, multiracial, multigenerational households.

16:15They're going to have gig economies.

16:18A lot of them are going to be self-employed or some sort of hybrid of that.

16:21And so how do we meet this moment knowing this consumer is here today, but it's also coming with Generation

16:30Z and Alpha and the generations that are coming behind them.

16:33And so two things, you know, we said we wanted to be intentional and purely focus on education, next generation,

16:44first time home owners.

16:46And we thought it would be better to do that as a community development financial institution.

16:51And so community development financial institutions, there are many benefits to them, but one of the benefits is you're able

16:59to partner with the Federal Home Loan Bank.

17:01You're able to partner with Treasury on opportunity to do things that are more community focused when it comes to

17:08lending, but also to require this educational experience, this foundation for education.

17:15And so we started, Lucas, two years ago, we're in the process of waiting for our CDFI approval.

17:23Now, I'm leaning into it from that technology standpoint.

17:29So Lucas stands for Lending Under Resource Communities Affordable Solutions.

17:34We've created this little character called little Lucas.

17:38He's so cute.

17:38And so I'm building this app right now that's going to provide this curative experience to consumers where they understand

17:48budgeting.

17:49They understand how down payment assistance works.

17:52They understand how to save for big events, the wedding, retirement, college, the dream trip.

18:00And I've done it with my team by creating this curative experience where we take the data that we know

18:08from the consumer and we say, Zeb, you have all of these subscriptions.

18:13Let's let's figure out what you're spending on or, Zeb, you want to go on vacation.

18:19Let's see how much you make and let's put a budget together so you can save towards that.

18:24And you own a home.

18:26So let's talk about how insurance and taxes fluctuate, but do it in a manner where someone understands it.

18:34The biggest issue I see with the mortgage industry and mortgage professionals is we get caught in the jargon.

18:40We get caught in the acronyms.

18:43RESPA, TILA, TRID, like we've got an acronym for everything.

18:46And so how do we take that language, make it conversational, normalize it so that people feel comfortable, not just

18:56on their homeownership journey, but making other financial decisions.

19:00And so that is what Lucas Home Loans is all about.

19:05I'm super excited to offer it to the world, quite honestly.

19:10And, you know, we're going to continue to build and lean on this experience of having a very educated consumer.

19:19So you talked about diving into the data for, you know, much of your decision-making process, but I'm curious

19:26to know, is there something or one or two things about this initiative or going throughout this process that you

19:35and your team have learned that you could not have learned or known by simply relying on the data?

19:43I did not realize the habit portion of it.

19:49So I had an intern work for me.

19:52She was an environmental science major.

19:55I intentionally hired someone who wasn't in finance, wasn't interested necessarily in mortgage, because that's our consumer.

20:04You know, 95 percent, probably 99 percent of our consumers are in the industry.

20:09And the first question she asked me, and she's a junior in college, she's like, what's a mortgage?

20:15And so in that experience, understanding that just it's not talked about whether your family owns a home or they

20:24don't own a home, it's still not talked about.

20:28And so that's the biggest thing, I think, that we learned.

20:31The other thing is how do you fill that trust gap?

20:34You want to have this digital technical experience for the consumer so there's speed in the transaction.

20:42But you don't want to lose the fact that this is a very personal journey.

20:46It's very emotional, you know, purchasing a home.

20:50And so the biggest thing we learned was the gap in knowledge and what this next generation first time home

20:58owners know.

20:59But then also, how do we dial it up where we've got the best technology and our humans are focused

21:08on really educating and helping the consumer along in the experience and just realizing there are just some things that

21:17people are just not going to know or they're not going to understand.

21:24What do you think is the best first step, first place that a lender should start if they want to

21:32move towards and, you know,

21:36not necessarily have an arm of a CDFI or something, but they want to move in the direction of more

21:43community involvement, more, you know, financial literacy and education and extending more home buying opportunities to traditionally underserved communities.

21:53What's the maybe not an easy first step, but an effective and practical first step?

21:59Yeah, and NFM is doing it, right?

22:02Like the retail, this is why independent mortgage bankers are doing the majority of mortgage transactions.

22:09It's because we live in the community.

22:11And so by living in the community, by being retail oriented and having locations, you're more familiar with the nonprofits.

22:19You're more familiar with the community.

22:22You're more familiar with pricing and neighborhoods that are going up.

22:27And so I think that if you take, you know, that experience of where you actually sit, really explore your

22:36HMDA data for where you're seeing opportunity,

22:40where you're seeing new communities pop up or employers moving or relocating.

22:45I think you start there and then you branch out from that and determine what other nonprofits perhaps are in

22:55these communities are servicing these consumers.

22:58A lot of people historically have started with churches.

23:01You know, we, my, my father owned a home and he started with his, his church.

23:08You know, he had someone who knew someone at the bank and that's how he got his mortgage loan for

23:1418%.

23:14And so, and so the other thing I would say is we should focus on the budget and not necessarily

23:23the interest rate.

23:24Because at the end of the day, what am I paying each month?

23:28I'm paying $1,500 or I'm paying $2,500.

23:31I'm not necessarily saying each month when I pay this mortgage, my interest rate is 8%.

23:36My interest rate is 9%.

23:38I'm really just saying how much am I spending on a monthly basis?

23:42And so if we can reframe how we talk to consumers, it comes from a budgeting standpoint.

23:49And then you back into, does the interest rate match this?

23:54Do you need to buy down?

23:55Do you need more of a down payment?

23:56So it's, it's, it's budgeting.

23:58It's looking at your HMDA data.

24:00And then it's also looking at where you sit as a retail originator and what's around you in terms of

24:08community development.

24:09Right.

24:10And I would imagine that the, the budgeting stuff is spearheaded by an educational initiative so that whenever you're, by

24:16the time someone is ready to, to pull the trigger,

24:19or they're ready to, or they qualify for a home or whatever, they, they, they, they understand.

24:24They, they really understand the concept of budgeting, not in an abstract way, but in a way that is, that

24:29they know is going to affect their quality of life moving forward.

24:33We, we might have to also think about homeownership.

24:37Like we think about preparing a kid for college.

24:39And I, and I say that I have three children, I have three bonus, three bio, two bonus.

24:47I have five, five children in total.

24:49And in some shape or fashion, they've either gone on to college or done training after, after high school.

24:57But I started talking to my children about college in eighth, eighth grade, in eighth grade, before they went to

25:04high school.

25:05And so, you know, why do we think as a society that we should start talking to adults about homeownership

25:13exactly when they're ready?

25:14Like, I think we have to accept in some circumstances, that funnel, that conversation should almost have a four year

25:22run.

25:23And the good news is technology is less expensive than a human actually continuing to interface.

25:30And so, if you can build the technology that keeps the individual engaged, that keeps them learning, you have the

25:37ability to have that longer funnel where people are learning in college about homeownership.

25:44And we can drop this first time home buyer age down.

25:48And so, I think as lenders, we should start thinking about the fact that if we're going to reach under

25:54-resourced consumers, if we're going to reach first-time, first-generation homeowners, that we should start to think about a

26:00longer funnel.

26:01Six months, nine months might not be long enough in the current circumstances, especially if they need to save for

26:07a down payment, they need to fix credit issues, et cetera.

26:10Or you might be talking about three, four years.

26:13And how do you service that consumer while they're preparing?

26:18Technology can do that very seamlessly and in a much affordable manner for a lender.

26:25Yeah, I've seen so much of that on my end outside of HousingWire.

26:31I am an English professor.

26:33I teach at a college.

26:36It's an underserved community, let's say.

26:40And I've started for many years back, the more I got involved with the mortgage industry, I started seeing inroads

26:47to teach financial literacy to my Composition 1 courses and tie it into the overarching curriculum.

26:56But most of that, I also teach one night a week.

26:58I teach at the federal prison as well, doing the same thing.

27:00And the lack of any sort of understanding towards basic finances, credit budgeting that 18, 19-year-old kids have

27:16now pales in comparison to what whenever we were 18, 19 years old.

27:22I mean, there's a much stronger foundation that we went out of school with than they have now.

27:30And they're going out into an even more, I guess, predatory world, I guess, with access to credit to wreck

27:37their lives for the next 20 years.

27:39They spend forever correcting.

27:40So, yeah, I agree.

27:43That's needed now more so than ever.

27:49One thing I wanted to ask you and talk to you about, too, is you're pretty open about mentorship and

27:55not just mentorship, but sponsorship specifically, which is not something that I hear a lot of people in this space

28:03talk about mentorship.

28:04I don't hear really anybody talking about sponsorship, not like you do.

28:08So, can you – first of all, what's the difference between the two, and what does that look like from

28:15your end?

28:16Yeah, I mean, I think it's very simple.

28:19Like, mentorship is preparing an individual for a job or a career.

28:26Sponsorship is giving them the career.

28:29It's giving them the job.

28:30It's calling in favors or it's saying, I can open this door for you, and here's the opportunity.

28:39And it was done for me.

28:42I very much still have a lot of individuals that will call, will check on me, will – I can

28:48run ideas by.

28:50But I've also had individuals who have said, I need you to make a phone call.

28:54And they made the phone call.

28:56And I think that that is the difference.

28:59And you are not able to do that unless you're in a position to do it, unless you're in an

29:05influential spot.

29:07And so, as an attorney, but also now as president of the organization and having a team report to me,

29:15I'm very interested in giving individuals a career, whether it's at NFM or outside of NFM.

29:23I worked in some very toxic environments.

29:28I worked with some very horrible people in the past.

29:32And one of my takeaways when I was very young is, like, if I'm ever in a position to lead

29:40people, if I'm ever in a position to be a manager, I'm just going to do it so differently because

29:45I know what that looks like when you have an idea and someone talks over you or they dismiss you.

29:52And, you know, creating an environment where people actually feel like they're contributing no matter where they are in the

29:59house, no matter what they're doing.

30:02And I also think for this next generation, you know, talking about succession, like this next generation, I think they

30:11crave it.

30:12And I really think they're looking for individuals who can not just talk to them about what they did, but

30:20they can actually say, here's where you are in your career.

30:22Let me help. Let me help. Let me help you along and see that you're successful.

30:28And then, you know, my only ask is always that you do it for someone for someone to you pay

30:34it for.

30:35You just pay it forward. And I love what you said about, you know, going into the prisons and and

30:43helping in education.

30:45And what you're seeing from from your perspective. But it takes it takes people like you.

30:51It takes people like me who are in positions where they're able to share that knowledge that they can go

30:57into these settings and feel comfortable and make the other individual feel comfortable and just kind of lead them along

31:05the way.

31:05And so I'm very much interested in how even in this role, I can continue to be a mentor and

31:15a sponsor to others.

31:16I've been very fortunate for the people that reached out to me on LinkedIn and on my Instagram.

31:23And, you know, they've asked me certain things and I've been able to give them some direction and encourage them

31:29because I know that I was in a place where, you know,

31:34for sure, I wasn't even sure I want to be a lawyer because of some of the dialogue or some

31:41of the interactions I had in the past.

31:44But it was my sponsors. It was my mentors who, you know, really told me, like, stick with it.

31:51You can do it. It's going to be all right. And so if I could do that for someone else,

31:56you know, that is part of my why.

32:00Let me ask you this one. And if.

32:04If for anyone that is looking to that has executive level ambitions or even C-suite level ambitions and they

32:15aren't fortunate enough to have someone like yourself in any position to to to to sponsor them and to help

32:23them or to guide them or mentor them.

32:25What do you think are the two most not something that you could Google or chat like the two most

32:29underrated or overlooked skills that they should be building to bridge that gap?

32:36I think emotional intelligence is one. And so knowing how to to read the room and knowing the individual that

32:46you're having the communication with and leaning into that, I think it's it's underutilized.

32:52I think that certainly, you know, I would say women probably do that a little bit better than men when

32:59it comes to emotional intelligence.

33:01I have no idea what you're talking about.

33:06But I but I but I would also say that the beauty of, you know, social media and books and

33:13all of these things that we have access to.

33:16I have mentors that I've never met. So like Melody Hopson, who is, you know, on the board of Starbucks.

33:24She's married to George Lucas. She is a, you know, financial titan, really.

33:32She's a mentor to me. She has no idea. But it's because I've read her books.

33:36I watch her podcast religiously and I've just studied her career because that's something I aspire to.

33:43And so even if there are individuals that you see on podcast or who've written books, who've been successful or

33:53who've coached very successful people, grab the book.

33:56Listen to the podcast. Really think through what the steps are that that individual took to get to where they

34:03are.

34:03And you can emulate that even if you don't have that person in your immediate environment.

34:11That's great advice. That's really good advice.

34:15I've got we're running up on our time. I got one more thing I want to talk to you about

34:19before before we part.

34:21And you'll be speaking or you'll be on stage speaking at the gathering next week.

34:26And Austin, this should come out. This episode should come out on Thursday.

34:30So it'll be a little bit of a preview and without giving giving away too much.

34:34Can you share what you're planning to bring to that conversation?

34:38And what do you hope people will walk away from thinking about that?

34:43They weren't thinking about walking in.

34:45Yeah, I'm nerve sighted.

34:47So I am a huge fan of my mentor who I'll be interviewing, Patti Arvialo.

34:56And we'll be talking about the plot twist of some of the things that she said at the last gathering

35:04in terms of her chasing rocket.

35:06And that's who she's chasing and what's happened there with this acquisition of Mr. Cooper and Redfin and and also

35:15talking about how you can reimagine what you're doing, where you are in the mortgage space.

35:24Because if no one can tell you how to go from the lawyer for the organization to the president, it

35:31would be me.

35:32And and just thinking through really what succession looks like for this industry.

35:38We all know this industry is aging.

35:41I think our average loan originators are in their maybe early, mid 50s.

35:46And so how should we as an industry be thinking about reimagining an intentional, an intentional introduction into the industry?

35:58At the top of this conversation, we talked about how people fall into this industry.

36:03They're referred.

36:04They know a friend.

36:05And look how successful or look how much this industry has done for its homeowners, its consumer.

36:12Imagine a world where people actually decide that this is their career and they have that level of intentionality and

36:20what they can do to continue to move this conversation on homeownership forward.

36:26So that's what I'll be talking about at the gathering.

36:32Well, look, thank you so much for joining me, LaTosha.

36:34I really appreciate you taking the time.

36:37Really enjoyed this conversation.

36:38And I very much look forward to seeing you and you and Patty on stage together next week.

36:43Yes, likewise.

36:44Thank you, Zab.

36:45Thanks, ma'am.

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