- 2 days ago
The K&C Masterpiece covered defensive evaluations and coach comments from Cowboys training camp. They discussed Christian Parker’s vision for Jaishawn Barham, Revel’s physical style and penalty concerns, expectations for the rookie class, and more.
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00:00Dallas Cowboys news and questions of the day.
00:05Would you like me to start or would you like to start?
00:08I would like to start.
00:10And Alec, I think you want to get involved in this conversation a little bit too.
00:13And here's why.
00:14Whether you like to or not.
00:16Wow.
00:16It was, I believe it was Christian Parker was talking yesterday, Kevin.
00:23And he was talking about Jayshon Barham.
00:27Yep.
00:28And we got a chance to watch Barham.
00:30I think, I wish I had laid my eyes on him more during the practice sessions we got to watch.
00:36But again, if you're out there for a week and they only practice for what, two, three days?
00:40Yeah.
00:41Actually, it was two days.
00:42Yeah.
00:42Because they were off on Friday.
00:43There's just so much happening and you're trying to collect as much as you can.
00:47But there's a lot of things going on.
00:49And so I didn't get a chance to really, but Mickey kept telling us.
00:54And we'll talk with Mickey coming up here at noon.
00:55And Mickey kept telling us, dude, this guy, what they're doing with him is interesting.
00:59He's sitting there playing linebacker.
01:01And then all of a sudden, they move him down into a fifth defensive lineman.
01:04Right.
01:04And then they'll move him back up.
01:05And you never know what he is when he's lining up.
01:08And Kevin, Alec, we've discussed this.
01:10Our idea for the play in the secondary is, even as a play is developing, the safeties, you don't know
01:17what they are.
01:18You don't know exactly which hash they're covering.
01:22You don't know exactly who they're covering because they're going to disguise their secondary into something.
01:27Well, now it looks like the vision for Barham is, we're going to disguise, he's a Swiss Army knife too.
01:35Right.
01:35We can disguise him as he's lining up as a linebacker.
01:40And then all of a sudden, he drops down into that fifth spot.
01:44And not only is your secondary disguise, but now your linebackers and defensive line shuffle looks crazy too.
01:50And yesterday, Christian Parker said, and this is from our boy Joseph Hoyt.
01:54I want to give him credit.
01:55Yes, I like Joseph a good bit.
01:57And there's a lot of, I think a lot of the other reporters have put this out there, but this
02:01is from Tommy Arish.
02:02We had a vision for him when we drafted him, and that's coming to life.
02:06I think he brings a certain physicality and demeanor to the inside of the defense, and you feel that.
02:14I just don't think that Christian Parker says we had a vision and it's coming true if it's not really
02:21coming true.
02:22Yeah.
02:22And if he wasn't able to play the spot, I think he's saying something along the lines of, we had
02:30a vision and we're still working on getting him there.
02:33But it's coming to life means, in my mind, and I don't know how you guys feel, it's coming to
02:38life means he is what we thought he was.
02:41So, you can react to that, but also, if I can tag on another question then, do you guys think
02:49by the time the regular season gets here, you'll feel more comfortable with him seeing early playing time?
02:55Because it felt like, hey, look, you're going to have to naturally ease into this, and it's going to take
03:01a minute.
03:01And I'm not saying he's ready to go have 45 snaps a game or anything like that, but do you
03:06guys feel like you'll get to the point at the start of the season, early in the season, where you'll
03:11feel more comfortable having him out there some straight away?
03:14I think I would be, because of everything that I'm hearing and everything that I'm seeing so far.
03:21From the staff and everybody involved, he's a cold-blooded killer out there.
03:26You know, I've heard the morning show talk about it at length this week, is that he never smiles.
03:30Like, this guy is here to play football, and that is it.
03:33But, back to Corey's point about, I don't think CP would say that about somebody if it wasn't true.
03:40I think about Oso Digizua not being on the team anymore.
03:43That's a damn good football player that whenever they hired Christian Parker, they said, really good, and probably fairly paid,
03:51too.
03:52So, that would have been a good value player.
03:54He does not fit.
03:55He cannot be on the team anymore because he does not fit.
03:58But, so, I don't think a rookie is going to get the benefit of the doubt before a $20 million
04:05defensive tackle that you drafted, developed, and had some pride in.
04:10So, I think if he's getting playing time that early, it's because he's earned it.
04:14Yeah, I'm right there with you.
04:16Now, there are going to be rookie mistakes and rookie moments, but this dude seems so locked in on the
04:21eye of what he wants to do as a player, and he's quiet, he's going about his business, and versatile.
04:28Versatility is so important, so I'm really excited about him.
04:32Kevin, there's another player that Parker talked about, if you're ready to move on.
04:35Yeah, yeah, yeah.
04:36As long as we stick with Christian Parker, because, actually, you know what, let me just throw this out there,
04:41and I think that will probably transition to the next player as well.
04:44One of the things he talked about is style of play from the defensive unit.
04:48I know people want to know rotational patterns and everything like that, but the first thing he said is, we
04:53want to be detailed in our work, our fundamentals, and our technique.
04:57We want a mastery of the scheme, but there's an element of violence and physicality we want to play with
05:04that we will play with.
05:05It's about tying all of those things together.
05:07And I'll tell you this, and this is a really low bar, but fundamentals, having a defense that is fundamentally
05:15sound is something it feels like we haven't seen in a minute, and I would welcome that.
05:20The wrap-up tackle, I would welcome that probably almost as much as an explosive defensive play at times.
05:28From the 4-4-3, this person says they're an Ohio State fan, and Barham absolutely wrecked shop against us
05:33last two years.
05:34So, I love to hear that from an opposing teams fan, where they're just like, hey man, I didn't like
05:39it, but I got to respect what the work was.
05:42And Kevin, you're right.
05:43This does transition into the next player.
05:45I don't know, maybe you were reading my mind, but it's Revel.
05:49Okay, so...
05:50This quote's pretty good.
05:51Okay, can I just throw out one fundamental thing about Revel that we've seen a little bit at practice.
05:58A lot of good stuff from him.
05:59A lot of good stuff.
06:00But you know that they run all the team periods and mock games and everything like that.
06:04You're still seeing some flags drop on him.
06:07Yes.
06:07And that's something that you need to watch out for, whether it was last year, whether it was his full
06:12starting season at East Carolina.
06:13He is susceptible to the penalty, which might just come along with the physicality of the way he plays.
06:20I don't know that delicate balance.
06:22You're right.
06:23Two things there.
06:24When it comes to where it is right now, sounds like Durant's still got the lead in the competition.
06:29Yeah, for sure.
06:31He's your starter right now.
06:32Yeah, but Revel is working his way there.
06:34And here's...
06:36I agree with you on the flags.
06:38You can't have just flag after flag after flag on play after play.
06:42I do...
06:42Let's go back to the Pistons.
06:44Let's go back...
06:45The teams that we've seen that play physical and they just let them play physical because that's the game they
06:50play.
06:51I wonder if that's what Parker's hoping happens or wanting to happen because go look at those Eagles defenses.
06:57Those Eagles defenses played physical and got away with stuff that you were like, how?
07:00Well, and it seemed like the referees were like, that's just how they play.
07:04It's not going to get called on all these plays.
07:07I...
07:07And that's what I'm fingers crossed because he wants to play a physical style.
07:10And I appreciate that.
07:12It feels like that physical style is rewarded and accepted far more in the front seven than perhaps in the
07:19defensive backfield.
07:20But I hear you.
07:21And maybe that's a right now thing only.
07:23Maybe because reading this quote from Christian Parker kind of gives me a different idea on what he's expecting.
07:29The next step for him is to be able to live on a single play.
07:34What I mean by that is, what's the split here?
07:36What's the situation?
07:38Who am I defending with certain play?
07:39All the physical attributes, like you just said, everything with him now is working on everything from the neck up.
07:46And just making sure we're thinking the game properly.
07:49So, it's that quick two or three second assessment there.
07:52You look around and you go, what exactly am I looking for?
07:55Because he's doing a good job with everything else.
07:57The ball work, making sure he's physically there.
08:00Okay, I got you there.
08:01But now how do you predict what they're about to do?
08:04We're talking with Jalen Thompson about that.
08:06Jalen Thompson, not Jalen Williams.
08:08And he...
08:09I said, how often are you guessing?
08:10He was like, never.
08:11Yeah.
08:12I usually know what...
08:13He was...
08:14Not offended by that question, but he was very adamant of like, no.
08:17Yeah.
08:18No, you're not supposed to.
08:19And if you're guessing, you're going to look like the Cowboys secondary did last year.
08:22You're going to look like Revel did last year.
08:24Where you're like, I don't know which way to turn my hips.
08:26But you go...
08:27This is where I say, go watch some film on Christian Gonzalez.
08:30And go watch how...
08:31This dude's already decided before the snap, based on where the dude's shading on the numbers,
08:38where his hips are going to turn and where his hand placement's going to be as soon as that dude
08:42takes his third step.
08:44This is the difference.
08:45These are the details that we're talking about.
08:47You can't just roll the ball out there and say, go cover the guy.
08:50Yeah.
08:50You have to be able to almost predict what the play's about to be and what you're looking for.
08:55And so now, that's what Christian Parker's saying with Revel.
08:58That's what we're lacking.
08:59The physical part, we're not lacking.
09:01But the things that we see before snap, that Caleb Downs is talking about so much with Sean and RJ,
09:07these things that you see before snap, those are the things that tell you why you're not going to guess
09:12what the play is.
09:13So I know normally this would be kind of an overreaction or reality-style question,
09:18but since Barham came up, since we've talked a ton about, you just mentioned Caleb Downs,
09:25does this Cowboys rookie class have to have a monster season if this team is going to go somewhere?
09:34Well, two things.
09:35One, I just don't think Revel's ready yet, based on what Parker said.
09:38This would be kind of his rookie season, essentially, too.
09:41Yeah, I get that.
09:42And so you can kind of shove him into the mix.
09:44Almost feels like DeMarvin Overshone's rookie season.
09:48But I think we said that during the offseason going into the draft.
09:52Like, these guys, now, fortunately, they went and got Rashawn Gary.
09:57Fortunately, they made sure Quentin Williams was here and Kenny Clark was here again.
10:02Fortunately, they went and got Kobe Durant.
10:04Right.
10:05Jalen Thompson.
10:06That's going to help the rookie season.
10:09I think those guys have to have standard seasons for themselves, maybe even a little bit better.
10:15Okay.
10:16And then these rookies have to be able to play like veterans by midseason.
10:20Okay.
10:20Not play like rookies.
10:22They don't even have to play like all pros.
10:24They just need to play like veterans by midseason.
10:27Now, I keep thinking about this because everyone keeps asking, you know, what is your definition
10:32of a successful defensive season?
10:34And I realize you jump right to points.
10:37That's really important.
10:38But one of the things I keep going back to is turnovers and being in the QB's face consistently.
10:44Pressure.
10:44Yeah.
10:45Now, those probably can go together.
10:47I know they don't always go together, but they frequently go together.
10:51Do you think that if you're getting pressure, just let's just start with that.
10:56Turnovers happen naturally.
10:57You're harassing the quarterback consistently and getting in his face.
11:01Do you think, not knowing any of the rest of the information, that probably will lead
11:06to a good defensive season?
11:07If you're around him, I think some quarterbacks can get away with it.
11:12You know?
11:12I think some.
11:13Probably.
11:13Patrick Mahomes can still.
11:14He knows where pressure is.
11:16We'll see how he does this season.
11:18I bet he's number one for comeback player of the year tomorrow.
11:21But, like, there are certain guys that are like, pressure's fine.
11:25Me laying on the ground's bad.
11:28But there are other quarterbacks where you apply, you harass them, and you confuse them.
11:34Those things are going to happen.
11:35Your turnovers are going to happen naturally because the quarterback has the ball.
11:39Now, the other turnovers, the forced fumbles and things like that, those are hit or miss.
11:45But it does come down to kind of the technique that you're teaching and if the guys are using
11:49those techniques too.
11:50But yes, Kevin.
11:51Pressure.
11:52Being able to apply pressure from a variety of angles.
11:55Because the quarterback can't just go, well, Micah's right there.
11:58That's where the pressure's coming from.
12:00Quarterback, he lines up and goes, I don't know which one of these guys is about to get to me,
12:04but one of them is.
12:05Because that's where you start to scare a guy for sure.
12:08I know not everybody has loved the Gotti, greatest offense there is, moniker that the
12:17offense has put out there for themselves.
12:20Clayton Adams, he is not one of the people that dislikes it.
12:23He likes it just fine.
12:24I love this.
12:25The coordinators talked yesterday and he said, I think it's amazing because to me, it's a
12:30standard that they set for themselves.
12:32You know, it's something that's very easy for me, that if we're not having a great walk
12:36through or we don't have a great practice, to pull that out and say, guys, that's not
12:40what Gotti is.
12:41And it's interesting to me, I wouldn't have thought of that.
12:44You're not looking up to the standard.
12:44Yeah, I wouldn't have thought of that, but that does really make sense to me, is that
12:48the offensive coordinator or any of the other offensive coaches, or heck, maybe even the
12:52defensive coaches, could flip it out on them and be like, yeah, Gotti, my ass.
12:57It's like when your kid gets an A and now you're like, you're an A student.
13:00And you can't be a C student anymore because I know you can get an A. You just have to
13:04do the work.
13:05Exactly.
13:06So I kind of like it that it's changed my perspective just a little bit because, again, we go back
13:12to it.
13:13Macro, their offense was really good last year, but they were also seventh in points per
13:17season or per game.
13:19So I would like to see that be a little bit higher.
13:21But I like that the coaches are like, no, I can use that.
13:23So, Kevin, you love to use the devil's advocate.
13:26I do.
13:27Mike would say, do you remember when the defense named themselves the Hot Boys?
13:31I do.
13:32Hot Boys!
13:33So that's the difference is if you don't live up to it, that joke happens.
13:39You're going to get burned, and it's going to be nothing but pictures or memes of John
13:45Gotti murdering our offense.
13:47You know that's what's going to happen.
13:49Or it's going to be a Washington player that is in that role murdering our offense.
13:55From the 901 devil's advocate here also, what's going to be the excuse if the defense doesn't
14:01make a big turnaround?
14:02Here's what I want to say.
14:03Kevin, I am not going to overreact to the defense in the first month.
14:08Okay.
14:09But if by midseason they haven't turned around, I'm going to have some problems.
14:13Yeah.
14:13I keep labeling midseason because I feel like that's enough games to, A, get your starters
14:18comfortable, you know, because three games into the season.
14:21But that first month, it's going to look weird.
14:23And then once you start getting film on opponents and really have an idea of what your opponents
14:28are doing, about midseason is where you should figure they should make the leap to that next
14:32place.
14:33So this is, I'm telling you my timeline now.
14:36I will not be overreacting in the first month about this Cowboys defense, but if they're not
14:41turned around by midseason, I have a problem.
14:44Okay.
14:45All right.
14:45That feels like a fair standard to hold.
14:47I think Christian Parker would well say that as well.
14:50If they turn around earlier than that, you know I'm going to be calling for Super Bowls.
14:52I told somebody, because I've said, like, my record for the season is nine and eight
14:57right now.
14:58But I told somebody yesterday before the Jesus podcast, I was like, yeah, if you finish the
15:03first three games and you've given up like 17, 10, and 21, I'll be like, whoa, baby, here
15:10we go.
15:11You only scored six.
15:13Then you're going to get those memes that I just referenced.
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