- 12 hours ago
Jon Machota joined the K&C Masterpiece and discussed the Cowboys’ latest draft projections and defensive outlook. He broke down the Caleb Downs fit, potential Keldrick Faulk selections, safety depth, trade-up scenarios, the Cowboys’ coaching shift under Christian Parker, roster value, and more.
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00:00Can't see a masterpiece right here on 105 Through the Fan right now.
00:04It's Dallas Cowboys beat reporter for The Athletic
00:08and man who rescheduled with us for no reason after all.
00:11It is John Machoda. Good afternoon, sir.
00:16What's up, boys?
00:17Because they switched that conference call with Brandon Aubrey, right?
00:21You know, that comes with covering the Cowboys.
00:24You've got to stay on your heels.
00:28You just never know.
00:28So, you know, just always stay available.
00:31John, do you think that the acronym BPAPON can catch on?
00:34Best player available at position of need?
00:39I just feel like it's a little bit too lengthy to really catch on.
00:44Possibly, though.
00:45I mean, if you get enough people, maybe make some T-shirts.
00:47Man, look at him bailing you out at the last second.
00:50So, we were talking about your mock draft
00:55and the Cowboys trading up to pick six.
00:58Picking up Sonny Stiles, I just wanted to know for you personally,
01:02whether it's the player, whether it's the fit on the team,
01:05if both Sonny Stiles and Caleb Downs are on the board at whatever pick,
01:11who do you like better for the Cowboys?
01:14You know, that is a good question because I can be fine with an argument either way.
01:20I would probably rather have Caleb Downs, especially Caleb Downs with Christian Parker.
01:28I just think that, I'm not saying that other defensive coordinators wouldn't maybe use him
01:35as well as Christian Parker would, but it just seems like this would be the type of chess piece
01:39that would be perfect for this new, young DC to kind of, you know,
01:47have quarterbacking a defense that most people won't know what to expect from it
01:51because there's obviously a lot of changes happening to this defense this offseason.
01:54And so, not to say that Sonny Stiles can't do that at inside linebacker.
01:58They obviously need that a lot, too.
02:01But for me, as Caleb Downs, I just think that he's the player that,
02:04when you watch Ohio State, I feel like he's the one that stands out the most.
02:08It seems like he's always making plays at all levels.
02:11And the other part of it, too, is just, you know,
02:16they haven't really invested very much in safety in these 15 years I've covered the team.
02:20So, it would be pretty interesting to see them make this type of a swing
02:23where they go from not really valuing the position to it being their biggest draft pick
02:29and then their biggest free agency signing with Jalen Thompson.
02:33Malachi Lawrence is, I love watching the player.
02:36He's got a lot of great traits that I really like about him.
02:39Do you think he is a reach at 20?
02:41Because he's starting to gain a lot of steam, too, in the conversations.
02:45You know, that's a good question.
02:46And I say that because, okay, so when I have, like, that trade that I did with Cleveland,
02:53you know, giving up, you know, 12 and 20, you get 6 and 39.
02:58One of my factors in that is that I bet you there's a lot of teams
03:04that don't think there's a huge difference about what will be there at, like, 20 to 25.
03:09And, like, 35 to 40.
03:11Yep.
03:12And so, that's why, for me, I'm like, it's very enticing because you move up to 6,
03:17you're definitely getting a guy you really like if you're moving up to 6.
03:20And then back at 39, there's a good chance you're getting one of these players
03:24that you're going to take at 20 anyway, and maybe it's someone like him.
03:28Now, maybe they just stay at where they're at 12 and 20,
03:31and maybe they take him at 20 as well.
03:32And that's the thing, like, you know, to, you know,
03:35I lean heavily on this stuff with Dane Brugler just because I know Dane really well.
03:39He's a friend of mine.
03:40I know the time he puts in.
03:41I know the people that he, like, how extensive his research is with who he talks to.
03:46Because let's be honest,
03:47a guy can just absolutely ball on Saturdays, look great on tape,
03:51and all you need to do is tell me about two or three things about that player off the field,
03:55about how they carry themselves,
03:56and all of a sudden I'm not interested in the first round in that player
03:59just because of stuff like that, you know.
04:01And he hears a lot more of that stuff than most do that cover the draft.
04:04And so I think 20 is probably a little rich,
04:08but if they think that he's one of the top two or three edge rushers,
04:13then, yeah, I don't think it would be out of the question.
04:15Now, I know we would all have to hope and pray a little bit
04:18or cross our fingers or knock on wood, whatever you think,
04:22but there is a decent amount of buzz that Stiles or Downs,
04:27probably more specifically Downs, could find his way down to pick 12.
04:33Could you see a scenario in which that happened and you did not move off of that pick?
04:38You know, if it does happen, I'm going to blame some of my colleagues
04:44that cover the other teams in this league
04:46because we've done three different mock drafts as a group,
04:50you know, where each beat writer, you know, drafts for their team.
04:54And in none of them, including the one I did yesterday with the group,
04:57did any of those guys get there?
04:59Now, I will say, it got close.
05:01You know, after the first six picks, four of those top six guys are still there.
05:04And I'm like, all right, this is looking good.
05:06And then a wide receiver went.
05:08And I'm like, all right, here we go.
05:09Boom, boom, boom.
05:10The next four guys were all of those, you know,
05:13Bain, Mansoor, Delane, Stiles, and Caleb Downs.
05:17I'm like, oh, great.
05:17All right, you know, and now here I'm at 12, and now I've got to go,
05:20all right, am I doing the Keldrick-Folk thing here?
05:22Am I going to do something wild and take a wide receiver?
05:25And it just, I don't know.
05:26It just, it hasn't happened for me when I've been doing these mocks,
05:29so that's why I'm thinking it's unlikely.
05:32But, man, I'll tell you the one that would really be stunning
05:36is if one of those guys is there,
05:37and then they take Keldrick-Folk or something over one of them,
05:40like how, like, stunned people would be over something like that.
05:44And you cannot completely rule something like that out.
05:48But I would say that it just seems like to me, like, you know,
05:52like I don't think that there's 15 first-round grades by the Cowboys standards.
05:57I bet you there's only 12.
05:58And out of those 12, I bet you it's six of them are those six defensive players
06:01that we have talked about the most.
06:03And to think one of those six are there at 12,
06:05it just seems like that would be the no-brainer
06:06because you do have defensive needs at all three levels.
06:09So any one of them makes sense if any one of them was to fall to 12.
06:14Now, so you brought up something interesting, and I get it.
06:18The buzz is picking up that he might be off the board.
06:20But let's say that exact scenario plays out,
06:23and Jordan Tyson is still on the board at pick 12.
06:28How does that factor into the Cowboys' thinking?
06:32So, I mean, you guys have obviously read and seen online,
06:35like, it's not a secret that the Cowboys are interested in him
06:38if they are completely wiped out, that that could be a possibility.
06:41Now, is that just smoke being put out there to try and get a team
06:44that's drafting behind them to jump them?
06:47Because then that would push maybe another defensive player to them?
06:50Could be.
06:51But I just don't see a world where they take a wide receiver at 12
06:58and George Pickens is still on the team in 2026.
07:01True.
07:01Because what would you be doing with George Pickens?
07:04Because, like, you feel really good about Ryan Flannoy as your three.
07:09So why would you be paying the $27 million on a tag to George Pickens?
07:13You probably would be looking to trade him then.
07:15Because you're not going to give him a long-term deal.
07:18Because you have money tied up in C.D. Lamb,
07:20and obviously you're going to have, you know,
07:22a first-round contract tied up in this wide receiver you take at 12.
07:24It would make no sense to be allocating that much money,
07:27not only on the offense, but just to wide receiver.
07:30So that would be the one that it would be telling to me
07:32if they did that at 12, I'd be like, oh, well then maybe they're moving away
07:36from George Pickens then because it just doesn't make sense.
07:39But I don't think that will happen.
07:41I frankly do think that it's going to be what we expect.
07:44That they, however they do it with their first two picks,
07:47I expected them both to be on defense.
07:49John Michauda joining us here on the KNC Masterpiece on 105.3 The Fan.
07:53We talked with Steven last week and asked him a little bit about the culture-changer mindset.
07:59I wanted to ask you about two different guys in your last three picks on your mock draft,
08:04one of them being from Indiana, Aiden Fisher.
08:08Would you see that guy as a guy that could help with culture coming from that championship program?
08:13But you also had Cole Wisniewski on there.
08:15And A, he comes from a Joey McGuire team that we love.
08:18And also, I really like the player whenever I got my eyes on him.
08:23So for me, this is my own biased opinion.
08:28This isn't hearing it from anybody with an organization or across the league.
08:31This is my own opinion, okay?
08:33Okay, all right.
08:34I don't care.
08:35I really don't care about any of that stuff.
08:37And honestly, if they cared about that,
08:39why is Solomon Thomas and Osa Diggy doing that on the team?
08:41Give me the best 52 players you can find, the best whatever.
08:46Like, give me the most talented roster.
08:49That's what wins on Sunday, as far as I'm concerned.
08:51Like, of course you don't want to have a roster filled with guys that are getting arrested
08:55and causing problems and stuff like that.
08:57I need the most talented players that are going to help me.
09:00I feel like that's the teams that win nowadays.
09:02That's what they're leaning towards.
09:04I just, the culture stuff sounds great.
09:07I'm just kind of beaten down with it, covering the Cowboys.
09:09Yeah, and that's, I guess, I heard Brad this morning say with Sean and RJ,
09:13he said he pulled somebody aside, and he didn't mention the name,
09:16but he was like, they kept saying, we need more grown-ups.
09:19We need more adults on this team, dudes that are better professionals.
09:23And that's kind of what it sounded like for me.
09:25And that trait, yeah, I think, I see what you're saying.
09:28Give me some talent, because talent can go out there and win on Sunday.
09:31I just don't know how you get any more professional than Osa and Solomon.
09:35But hey, all right, that's fine.
09:38I don't know why those guys would be leaving the building.
09:40That's all I'm saying.
09:41There you go.
09:42It's whatever.
09:42Okay.
09:43I kind of, we have Steven on again on Friday.
09:46I kind of want to ask him, like, hey, do you think culture and stuff is overrated?
09:51And then whenever he answers that, I'd be like, then why did you get rid of Osa and Solomon?
09:54And then drop Mishota's name?
09:56No.
09:56He'd be like, Mishota said this.
09:57I don't want to get him in trouble.
09:59Okay.
09:59He won't come back on the show, I don't believe.
10:02No, you're good.
10:03Okay.
10:04Hey, Steven can handle that.
10:07Steven, I mean, to be honest with you, I think it's funny when, because I get that question
10:11asked a lot of people, like, well, how do you think things will be different when Steven's
10:14running the team?
10:14They're like, I mean, I get that Jerry gives, like, the more headline responses, but it's
10:20not like Steven doesn't get asked tough questions.
10:23It's just, Steven, this doesn't, he's not going to give you the long answer.
10:26Like, just being in Arizona recently for that owner's meeting, I was telling somebody this
10:30the other day, it's not that we didn't ask Steven the same questions that we asked Jerry.
10:35Now, Jerry got asked, there was some other national reporters that were around, asked
10:39some probably more big picture stuff, you know, about, like, the officiating things.
10:42But for the most part, Steven was asked the same stuff, but he wasn't going to play ball
10:47the way that Jerry will, especially when it comes to George Pickens.
10:50And Steven, we asked him multiple questions about George, and he was like, yeah, you know,
10:55he gave his answers, and that was that.
10:57You know, he's just not going to, where I feel like when Jerry talks, Jerry goes in
11:01thinking, like, I got to give them something that's going to make a headline, where Steven's
11:05like, I'll answer your guys' questions.
11:06That doesn't mean I'm going to provide you guys with this monster headline every time,
11:10you know, but it's like, I mean, I don't know, like, you guys asked him, I mean, I listened
11:13to your interview last week, it's not like you guys shied away from asking him anything
11:16or anything, but he'll answer the question.
11:17Yeah, the thing I love about Jerry is you ask him.
11:20Any question, he'll go, well, I'm not going to comment on that, but what I will say, and
11:25then he'll essentially answer your question, so I do like that.
11:29What did you think about the Brandon Aubrey deal now that it's done?
11:38I like it.
11:39I think it's a good deal for both sides.
11:42I do love, you know, I wonder, I guess sports talk radio would provide this in the past,
11:47but like, I wonder, like, before social media, like how much of this, there's just always
11:51extra layers of the conversation after something like that happens, because then it turns to,
11:56well, why didn't this get done, you know, two, three months ago?
11:59And what happened to the 10 million?
12:01And it's just like, well, you do know that a lot of these things can still be true.
12:05You know, you do know that like 10 million could have still been asked for, even though
12:10it's like, yeah, but I mean, we really want eight, you know, they're trying to give us
12:13six.
12:14We want eight.
12:15So we'll ask for 10, but we'll settle at eight or whatever.
12:17And then there's also a truth to, there's also the potential that the player goes to the
12:21agent and goes, Hey, are they willing to give this?
12:24I know that you want, you know, you know, me to get eight and I, and I know if I
12:28hold
12:28out, I can get eight, but man, I love living here.
12:31I'm from here.
12:32It's pretty awesome being the Cowboys kicker.
12:34I love kicking indoors.
12:35Like I would love to put all this behind me.
12:38If I can just go into this season with this all out of the way, let's just get this thing
12:41done.
12:41You know, there's a lot of different ways these things can be done.
12:44Like every player isn't represented by the same agent.
12:47Every player doesn't want the same things.
12:49Like every single thing isn't the same in every single contract negotiation.
12:52And this one's a great example of it because Brandon's represented by the same person,
12:57Todd France, who represents Dak.
12:59And it's not this, like these two contracts and the way everything went down are not even
13:03close to being the same thing.
13:04So I'm just pushing back on a little bit on like social media.
13:07Sometimes I'll just see how like people make it seem like it's just so obvious.
13:10Oh, this should have been done three months ago.
13:12But well, how do you know that?
13:13Do you know what that, what was being asked for?
13:14Do you know what they offered?
13:15Like, there's just a lot of like just assuming and talking matter of factly about things you
13:21really don't know for certain.
13:22Do you ever build a burner account and really go troll people?
13:26I don't, hey, to be honest with you, like I kind of try and stay away from it more.
13:30Like the more I cover this team because it can wear you out.
13:33And you guys obviously know.
13:35Yeah.
13:35That's true.
13:36Yeah.
13:37We did.
13:37Yeah.
13:38I'm not, you know what?
13:39I'm not going to get into it.
13:40He knows.
13:41Yeah.
13:41I know.
13:42I'm with you on that.
13:43Now, I know last thing I've got for you, I know in the mock draft, as we were just talking
13:47about the trade up to six, if they just stayed put 12 and 20, what do you think would be
13:53the most likely outcome for the Cowboys at those picks?
13:59It's tough for me not to predict one of those picks being Keldrick Falk.
14:03Yeah.
14:03And I say that just because, yeah, there's, there's a lot of upside there, but it really
14:10has to, I would feel like if he's one of those picks, it has to come from like the coaching
14:13staff saying like, no, we know exactly how to use this guy.
14:16We know how to get the most out of them.
14:18We think, we think he'll be perfect.
14:20You utilizing him this in this way, we can work them off of Quinn and Williams as like
14:24a real plan.
14:25And if that's the case, you can sell me on that either way.
14:28And so I just feel like one of those picks will be Keldrick Falk.
14:30And then one of the other ones, I feel like will be a corner.
14:34So Falk and Hood.
14:36Yeah, yeah, exactly.
14:37And not to say that a safety couldn't be in the mix, you know, like McNeil Warren or
14:42Thienemann, like that could be possible.
14:44I'm just going off again.
14:45Like I said, covering this team, they just have not put that type of value in safety.
14:50And so they went and signed Jalen Thompson and PJ Locke.
14:53I was just kind of like, I would not be surprised if in their mind, they're done at safety.
14:57So as much as I think we all want to see Caleb Downs play for the Dallas Cowboys, it would
15:03not surprise me if they go to a corner and an edge rusher, because those are the two positions
15:09that have the highest value in terms of obviously what those positions are paid.
15:15I know we have to wait years to see how it actually plays out, John.
15:19But I'm going to tell you, if we get to draft night and Caleb Downs is at pick 12 and
15:24they
15:24pick somebody different, I'm going to flip the F out.
15:28I don't think you're going to be alone.
15:31If they are at 12, I did this last year when their picks started coming up.
15:36I left the workroom at the star and I went over to inside the Ford Center because I wanted
15:42to get fans reaction.
15:44And when they took Tyler Booker, like there were definitely, I wouldn't say all, but there
15:48were a lot of people that were pretty deflated.
15:49Not about Tyler Booker.
15:50Obviously, he's a good player and is probably going to be an outstanding player.
15:53But just the fact that it was another offensive lineman, I would be fascinated to be inside
15:58that Ford Center.
15:59If Caleb Downs is on the board and they take someone else, that will be, you'll see the
16:03video reaction of that one.
16:05Trust me.
16:05There's a bunch of people dropping their head and walking around.
16:07I love it, John.
16:08Thank you so much.
16:10I know you're busy and congratulations to both of us about Ngungba coming back.
16:15Let's keep this going.
16:17Let's keep the momentum going.
16:18Let's keep, I'm embracing the portal.
16:20Yeah!
16:21Thanks, John.
16:22Let's see you, boys.
16:23Let's keep the momentum going.
16:23All right.
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