00:00And let's talk some Dallas Cowboys.
00:05I specifically want to focus on the special teams to start, if you do not mind.
00:11So we've talked all about the defense.
00:13Defense was horrid last year, just the worst.
00:16And so the Cowboys have focused a lot of time, efforts, assets in making sure that the defense is better.
00:24But at the same point, your special teams seemed really bad, despite the fact that the kicking part, or the
00:34people who kick the ball for you, are really good.
00:38You have a tremendous kicker, place kicker.
00:43You have, I think, a very good punter as well.
00:48You've been adamant about him being the Cowboys punter since he was a Ram.
00:52For sure.
00:52And so the Cowboys still, in Sports Illustrated's rankings last year, were 27th in special teams.
01:02Because a lot of it had to do with the coverage, and then to a certain extent, the kick return.
01:10Which that is kind of a fascinating discussion in and of itself.
01:13But with a really good place kicker and a good punter, you are still really low on the overall special
01:22teams unit.
01:23Which I think tells you everything that you need to know about everything else involved in special teams, including your
01:29coverage units.
01:30So, is there any concern from either of y'all about while we've talked about all of this, special teams
01:37shot you in the foot many times last year?
01:40Yeah, it did seem like we were constantly discussing.
01:43And Kevin, I know you said a discussion in and of itself.
01:46I do have some numbers on kick returns.
01:48Tell me.
01:49That I wanted to throw out there.
01:50That are a little weird.
01:51Yeah, this is weird.
01:53So, 20-plus yard kick returns.
01:57The Cowboys had 72 last year.
02:0020-plus yard kick returns.
02:01That was the second most.
02:04Okay.
02:05Alright?
02:05Which feels great.
02:06That is, I mean, that's, I'm sorry, that's the most.
02:09That's the most by two.
02:11Okay.
02:11Is what I meant to say.
02:12Bengals and Cardinals both had 70.
02:15That's a lot of kick returns at 20-plus yards.
02:18Yep.
02:19Well, 40-plus yards, you were middle of the pack last year.
02:23Okay.
02:24So, you could get to a certain number.
02:26And I think, if I remember correctly, Kevin, the number, like, capped you at 28 yards.
02:3229 yards.
02:33You didn't get much more than 29 yards.
02:36So, you were pretty much starting no further than your 30-yard line every time.
02:40Matter of fact, the number of 40-plus yard kick returns, three.
02:46Okay.
02:46So, you got to 40, you got big plays like that.
02:50The longest one was 84.
02:51That's cool.
02:52But you didn't get beyond that very often.
02:55So, your average starting position is around the 29-yard line.
02:5830-yard line, which is basically, what's the point?
03:02Which you would think, if you had that many, like, effective runbacks, that you would be at the front of
03:12the pack.
03:13Yeah.
03:13So, that was kind of an alarming, like, okay, how do you get to the next level of that?
03:20How do you break those open?
03:22How do you become more than just that?
03:24But on the other side, too, that wasn't, like, it felt like the opponent oftentimes had bigger, had better places
03:30to start from.
03:32Yes.
03:32And while starting at the 30-yard line isn't the world's in, because, hell, it used to be the 20,
03:38and you'd have to drive from there, you would certainly love more opportunities with who everybody says is one of
03:45the premier kick returners in the league to crack one open for a big play.
03:49And that's the thing about it on both sides of the ball, right?
03:52While our offense as a whole was really good last year, there were times when they stalled out in really
03:59clutch drives, and you would like to know that, like, hey, you can just get a leg up, whether it's
04:04kick return or punt return in that instance.
04:06And then, while I know a lot of folks are really jazzed up about the defense, and I think they
04:11look better, and they put a lot into it and everything like that, you don't want to start them off.
04:16Like, the defense was bad last year, make no mistake about it.
04:19But I also felt like they got continually started off in disadvantageous situations, and you're like, our defense is not
04:26good enough to handle an average starting spot, let alone a below-average starting spot for them.
04:32And so, I think that's my concern.
04:33The return average against the Cowboys was 25-7.
04:37Okay.
04:37So that was the average there.
04:39Okay.
04:39Yeah.
04:39So they were at the average.
04:41And was, you're right, in middle of the pack, and you just said, our defense isn't good enough to be
04:47middle of the pack in specialty.
04:49Exactly.
04:50So while you look on paper like you have improved your defense, if you haven't improved your special teams on
05:00either side, is that already going to put you in a potentially detrimental situation where your defense could be better,
05:08but it won't improve as much as you would have hoped because your special teams didn't pick up on that
05:13side of the ball?
05:14It just feels like time and again that when you watched it, you couldn't get off of blocks off of
05:21coverage, and you couldn't tackle.
05:23And on the return side of it, how often did you not even need to see the flag to know
05:29that there was a flag coming because the Cowboys had broken open a return?
05:34You're like, I don't know if it's block in the back or whatever the case is, but I know there's
05:39a flag.
05:39It always feels like it's a block in the back or holding, and sometimes I hate that we even return
05:44the ball because I was like, you know you're going to get a freaking penalty.
05:46But there were some runs that I was like, I already know there's a flag, even if I haven't seen
05:50it yet, because there's no way we opened up that space illegally.
05:54Now, so this is where I'd like to involve this part of the question from the 4-4-3.
06:00Turpin lost focus, being involved in the offense last year, needs to solely focus on special teams.
06:06And you did, I have a tendency to believe sometimes guys get to a place and they're like, I'm a
06:13receiver now.
06:14Right.
06:16But I think his best asset was the hunger that came from being a kick returner that was like, I've
06:22got to go make something of myself out here.
06:26But again, the blocking has a big factor in that.
06:29The blocking absolutely does.
06:31Do you think that being a gadget offense guy has an effect on what he does as a returner, and
06:40that Flannoy needs to be the third, and that they can come up with other ways to create offense without
06:45having him as a receiver?
06:46You're already forgetting about Valdez, Scantling?
06:48I absolutely have.
06:49Okay, me too.
06:50Yeah.
06:51So I think...
06:52Alec, how are you feeling about that?
06:53I will never forget that MVS is on this team.
06:56Okay, okay.
06:57Dang it.
06:57And you're expecting him to do really great, big things.
07:01Better than Jonathan Mingo.
07:02Okay!
07:03That's a fair point, yeah.
07:04He's going to have his breakout game this year.
07:05I want everyone to be honest right now.
07:07Be honest and text in.
07:10877-881-1053.
07:11Frankel and Frankel, injury attorney, text line.
07:13Did you forget that Jonathan Mingo was still on this team?
07:16I want you to be honest!
07:17You could still be the biggest Cowboys superfan, but you kind of forgot that he was on this team.
07:22I just want everyone to be honest.
07:23But that is an interesting hypothesis.
07:25We talked to Mickey about that last year, and he disagreed.
07:28But frequently, we do not necessarily have to agree with Mickey Spagnuolo.
07:32And I think...
07:33Which I think is a good thing.
07:34Yeah, absolutely.
07:35And I think he does as well.
07:37I think I do agree with that contention.
07:39Because you were talking about it.
07:40Like, he became the highest paid returner.
07:42But then, it's become just run-of-the-mill for a receiver to get paid 28 to 32 million dollars.
07:49So you can't help, but let your mind wander about, like, hey, what if I get a 20 million bump
07:54per year?
07:55Like, I'm not saying he would be that guy.
07:57Right, right.
07:57But, like, you can't help but kind of think about that.
08:01I'd...
08:02Kevin...
08:02The Cowboys look at that as a true value, right?
08:05I'm sure.
08:06Double position.
08:07You are the highest paid returner out there in the market.
08:11Right.
08:11Nobody paid as much as you.
08:13You are a regular paid receiver.
08:17To them, they're like, look at how much we're not spending on this.
08:19Because now we can go spend it on Pickens and C.D. Lamb.
08:22Obviously.
08:22Because they would do that in a heartbeat, right?
08:25Without a doubt.
08:26But, yeah, I just...
08:27I'm kind of curious on...
08:30On what...
08:31If you're getting that max level dude still, or if he's just a threat.
08:35And if he's a threat at some point, the threat has to do that thing.
08:40Yeah.
08:40Go back to the stars.
08:41If Miro's going to be a threat from the point, he needs to be one of those dudes that actually
08:45take shots from there.
08:46Yeah.
08:46Otherwise, the threat is non-existent.
08:48So...
08:49But the blocking part of it, the tackling...
08:50You brought the tackling part up, too.
08:53And this is...
08:54I saw this recently.
08:55I'm kind of curious on your front.
08:56We discussed this a little bit.
08:58But Leofau needs to become the next dude that leads the special teams, correct?
09:03Like, he needs to be a playmaker...
09:06Yeah.
09:06He needs to be a playmaker on that side, because what is the point of his roster spot if he's
09:11not an elite defensive player, but he's very good?
09:15You can go be a Bill Bates.
09:16You can go be one of those guys that makes your name as a...
09:20He gets great tackles and makes big plays on special teams.
09:23Is that oddly similar to Turpin in terms of...
09:30His other side of the ball?
09:30Yeah, yes, exactly, in terms of...
09:33But no, I thought you guys were going to start working me some at outside linebacker.
09:37And you're like, right, but special teams is your gateway to that.
09:40This is your way.
09:41Yeah, like, you don't...
09:42We're not going to say, hey, it hasn't really worked, but now we're going to give it another
09:47shot without saying, hey, have you proven your worth in other places?
09:51And I know that sucks sometimes, but that's the way it is.
09:54And if you're like...
09:54And if you're...
09:55This is the great thing about the NFL, is that if you're like, well, you know what?
09:58That I've had enough of this team specifically, and I don't want that from this team, then
10:04go out there and be that ace and show another team that you might want to play for that you're
10:10going to be that guy for them.
10:12And then maybe they'll give you those opportunities that you think you deserve elsewhere.
10:16Because I know CJ Goodwin has been that guy for the Cowboys.
10:20They're just like, that's our dude.
10:21Not anymore.
10:22Yeah, so somebody in this area needs to be like, this is where I'm going to make my
10:28mark on this team.
10:29And I think this is that opportunity for him for sure.
10:32From the 214, yes, I did forget that Jonathan Mingo was on this team.
10:36From the 214 and another 214, Mingo who?
10:39Okay.
10:40From the 972, Jonathan who?
10:42I'll just wait until he has his breakout game.
10:44Alex is going to hate this.
10:46Oh, we'll get to that.
10:47The 817, that was not on my Mingo card.
10:50Hashtag dinosaurs.
10:51So they're really locked in.
10:53How can I forget?
10:54Because we wasted a fourth round pick.
10:56And then from the 817, I can't forget because I have a Mingo jersey.
11:00And then from the 972, the only reason I haven't forgotten about Jonathan Mingo is you guys
11:05are always talking about him having his breakout game.
11:08Now, I would love to take credit for that.
11:10That is somebody who texts in every time we do Cowboys win because Cowboys lose because
11:17and they always say, I think it's Mingo has his breakout game with four catches for 26 yards.
11:23And like, it just feels like it is openly mocking his production.
11:27And I think it's funny.
11:29And that person always jumps in.
11:32And then from the 214, this is the year that Jonathan Mingo puts it all together.
11:39If that's not because of injury, your offense is going to be unstoppable.
11:43If Jonathan Mingo puts it together and you still have your other collection of pass catchers,
11:49good luck, everybody.
11:51I want to know what that looks like real quick, Kevin.
11:53Five for 70 per game.
11:55Um, five for 70 per game.
11:57That would be a heck of a season.
11:58His best season.
12:00His rookie year.
12:01Okay.
12:0343 catches on 85 targets.
12:06418 yards.
12:0915 first downs.
12:11Zero touchdowns.
12:12He has zero touchdowns in his career.
12:14At this point, he has the same amount as Jesse Holley.
12:18What?
12:18Damn.
12:19He's so close.
12:21He was so close to getting that touchdown, though.
12:23I believe by the metrics that I just threw out for you, that would be 85 catches for
12:271,190 yards.
12:29So, maybe scale that down just a little bit.
12:33Because, like, five for 70 doesn't sound crazy.
12:36But if you extrapolated it out, that's what it would be.
12:39If he could have a 600-yard season, I'd be pretty okay with that.
12:45And three touchdowns.
12:46That'd be awesome, dude.
12:48He'd be like, that's Jalen Tolbert production right there.
12:51Yes.
12:53And how many people for a while forgot that he was on the roster as well?
12:56I didn't, because I kept thinking that it would be the year that he put it all together.
13:00Oh.
13:02So, you don't really believe this is the year that...
13:04You know what?
13:05As Patrick Mahomes once said, I'll see it when I believe it.
13:10Okay.
13:11That's what he said.
13:11I'm quoting him exactly.
13:14And it's a little tricky when you see something that's mean-spirited, but it's also clever.
13:18From the 972, the only thing Mango's putting together is a 300-piece puzzle.
13:23Hey!
13:24At least they didn't say, like, 50-piece.
13:26That can be a lot of pieces.
13:28What's the biggest puzzle you've ever done?
13:30Um, 5,000?
13:335,000?
13:34Mm-hmm.
13:34Holy cow!
13:37That is a lot.
13:39I'm impressed.
13:40It was like a waterfall, too.
13:42Ugh.
13:43Oh.
13:43That's the worst.
13:44Alec?
13:46Probably, like, 2,000, maybe?
13:48Oh, man.
13:50Okay.
13:51What about you?
13:51Uh, I think it, there's no way it's more than 1,000, and I think the 1,000-piece one
13:56was that German Christmas puzzle we got that was an Advent calendar, and so you opened up
14:00a new box every day, and it had, like, a section of the puzzle.
14:03Is it a child that wanted to play baseball?
14:05Uh, yeah, no, it was...
14:07And learn about Jesus.
14:08Yeah.
14:11We'll see.
14:12No, it was a Christmas train, and stuff like that.
14:17Anyways, where the KNC...
14:18Don't look it up!
14:19I told you, it's not from Jesus' camp.
14:22I bought it at a Christmas, all-year Christmas store.
14:25Oh, dude, there's an Avengers 60th anniversary 5,000-piece puzzle for $70.
14:30Ooh.
14:30That's so fun-looking.
14:32And no, you had the wrong takeaway from this segment.
14:35From the 6-8-2, that's it.
14:37I'm drafting my fantasy wide receiver, too, as Jonathan Mingo in round 15.
14:42That was the wrong takeaway...
14:44You're welcome.
14:45...that you had.
14:45But also, you're getting your second wide receiver in the 15th round?
14:50Okay.
14:50Yeah.
14:51I mean, they're probably going running back heavy and running back tight end.
14:54All right.
14:55Maybe took Justin Jefferson number one or Pickens.
14:58You know, something like that.
14:59You're taking the wrong wide receiver at two.
15:01What do you mean, Mingo?
15:02Yeah.
15:02Your choice should be anybody else left on the board.
15:05I'm not sure if you heard 600 yards and three touchdowns is what we're hoping for.
15:10He could exceed that.
15:12Okay.
15:12Well, you heard it here first.
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