- 2 days ago
Willard and Dibs debate how valuable the Warriors' 'optionality' is, because it seems like that's what they have the most of right now.
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00:00Is there kind of a, is there a chasm there?
00:02Is there a thing there?
00:04The Warriors, the league, they see the Warriors as one thing.
00:09The fan base right now sees it as another.
00:13My best guess is what that is, is just fear.
00:18It's fear because our fan base has never known success outside of Steph Curry.
00:24We've never known it.
00:26Sure, sure, sure, sure, 1975.
00:28Yeah, I don't want to, but you know what I mean?
00:30Never sell that short.
00:32No, I won't sell it.
00:33Exactly.
00:34I won't sell it short, but the majority of the audience,
00:37the majority of the audience either didn't experience it or was very young.
00:42If you remember it and you were at one of those games, good on you.
00:45But you get what I'm saying.
00:47This organization has never, ever had sustained success outside of Steph.
00:53So I think there is a tremendous amount of fear that we currently have about what this will look like
00:59without him
01:00and how on earth it could be successful.
01:04And I think, number one, it's probably not a great idea for us to compare this to whatever it's going
01:09to be next
01:10because whatever's going to be next is not going to compare favorably.
01:14That's number one.
01:15But number two, look, this is, it is a different ownership group.
01:20Like, this ownership group has never succeeded without Steph, but they weren't here without Steph.
01:26Like, that's all they've ever known.
01:28So what will they do next?
01:30I don't know.
01:31I don't have reason to be optimistic or pessimistic.
01:34But at least open-minded, I don't know where this is going to go next.
01:39But I think that fear for all of us, because we're used to the lack of success without Steph Curry,
01:45has us believing the franchise value, the valuation is number one in the league, is going to tank.
01:52The Warriors will not be good.
01:54This is all a house of cards.
01:56It's, it'll all fall.
01:58Nobody's going to want to be here.
02:00And I, I'm just throwing it out there because I don't, I can't tell you one way or the other.
02:05I just know that the league sees it one way and the fan base sees it a very, very different
02:09way.
02:10I agree with that.
02:11But what you've been saying has really been hitting me of late, which is free agency is mostly kind of
02:16dead in the association.
02:17I'm looking at the list of free agents this year who signed based on points per game.
02:22You sort by points per game and it's of the top 10, all of them re-signed with the same
02:29team, except for Norman Powell and LeBron James.
02:33Those are the two.
02:34LeBron took 4 million.
02:35Exactly.
02:36And Powell goes to the Bulls and you go down to Colin Sexton and everyone's saying, how are you not
02:42in on Colin Sexton?
02:43And he didn't even get 10 million a year.
02:45And you look at that and you could say, yeah, how come you weren't in on Colin Sexton?
02:49Well, you were trying to figure out the LeBron thing and he signed on July 1st.
02:53See, I also don't think Colin Sexton's a huge difference maker.
02:56I'm not saying I wouldn't have wanted him.
02:59Sure.
02:59Any fresh blood and anybody who can get a bucket, I'm thumbs up on that.
03:04But at the same time, it's like, okay, at whose expense and for why?
03:11Like, if you would ask me at the time, hey, will you give up on Colin Sexton just for a
03:16shot at LeBron James?
03:17I'd have said yes.
03:18Wouldn't you?
03:19Yep.
03:20You know, so just looking ahead to next year, because you you're spot on when you talk about free agency,
03:27because this year it wasn't it's not the same bonanza that it used to be.
03:31And, you know, you look at guys for next year, like Nicole Jokic, does he want to leave and be
03:36a free agent or stay?
03:38And I think he can get even a little bit more from his own team.
03:41The rules are created now in such a way that it's hard for the real big boys to go into
03:46free agency
03:47and get the dollars that they want, unless they just want a change of scenery.
03:51And if you do, I don't think that the Warriors are a team that's one star away from winning.
03:55You have to almost navigate so many pitfalls before you even get to that.
04:01Like a team is going to approach their star and offer an extension as much as possible.
04:08If that player, let's say Nikola Jokic is like, no, Denver, no, I don't want an extension.
04:14Well, at what point does Denver, after they feel like they can't convince him to sign the extension,
04:19what are they going to do next?
04:21Hey, if you don't want to be here, then let's talk about where you do want to be.
04:26And let's make that happen.
04:27Because how stupid would you be if your star is like, I don't want to be here anymore.
04:31And we're like, cool, we'll just let you expire and leave.
04:34They don't want to get something for you.
04:36Just like what Milwaukee just did.
04:38They're going to want to haul.
04:40And so that's my question, and it's for a smarter person to answer.
04:46I'm not an NBA businessman, but that's my concern right now with the Warriors.
04:53My concern is that they are cradling all of this optionality and cap space like it's a newborn baby.
05:00And when that actually comes to be at the end of next year, what is it that you can even
05:07do with it anymore?
05:08How valuable is the optionality?
05:11Even if I'm not like Grandy and not triggered by the word, even if I can get my head around
05:18your flexibility,
05:18can you explain to me like I'm new, what can you do in the NBA with your flexibility anymore?
05:29Well, you can have the space and create the room and have an environment that might be conducive or welcoming
05:36to somebody who is going to be a free agent.
05:38And looking at the list, and I sorted this one by age, there's a lot of familiar faces and some
05:44older dudes like Kevin Durant next year.
05:46He will be a free agent.
05:48I'm 38.
05:49Damian Lillard and Paul George, and they have player options, and so they aren't automatically going to leave.
05:55But when you look at younger players, if those players have a team that owns their bird rights, well, then
06:01that team's going to give them the max.
06:03And everybody you just mentioned, that's just more old people.
06:07That's more old people.
06:08I'm talking about like a prime free agent, a free agent in their prime.
06:13Does that even exist anymore?
06:14You know who had a lot of space on the open market this year?
06:17The Lakers did, because they, and by the way, this is true, they opted to not bring LeBron James back.
06:26Not the other way around.
06:27That was very well orchestrated by LeBron and Clutch.
06:30But the Lakers moved on from LeBron James, and they had a bunch of cap space, and what did they
06:35do with it?
06:36Well, they started out by bringing back at a very healthy number one of their own stars.
06:41And Austin Reeves got, I think, $46 million.
06:44But with the departure of LeBron James, they had room to do a lot more.
06:49And this is what a team with cap space on the open market, this is the kind of thing that
06:56they can achieve in a current NBA climate and offseason.
07:01Well, they were able to go out and figure out a sign and trade for Walker Kessler, 25-year-old
07:10center, because Luka told them we need a center.
07:12So you go out and you get Walker Kessler.
07:15And then, as you pointed out, they were able to kind of spin this into some of those players that
07:23were, I don't know, middling-feeling type free agents.
07:26Their next big get, I guess, would have been Quentin Grimes.
07:29So they were able to kind of pull him from Philly, which felt like a get until you realized what
07:34Philly was doing.
07:35They're like, take Quentin Grimes.
07:37He would be our seventh best player.
07:39So you get Quentin Grimes, and then you're able to pull in Colin Sexton and Matisse Tybal and all of
07:46these guys.
07:47And it's like, all right, those are some names.
07:50And I like all the things you did.
07:53And what's the end result?
07:55Anybody think the Lakers are winning this year?
07:57Like, those are all, at best, B-level guys.
08:01Right.
08:02At best.
08:02Well, now, if you look across the association, you need to have a couple of A's and a couple of
08:09B-pluses,
08:09and then two or three B's and B-minuses, and then a couple of C-pluses.
08:14It's depth and youth that are going to get the job done.
08:17And so the Warriors, if things continue down this path, and Al Horford signed a two-year deal,
08:23I think that Draymond's on the one-year deal, but he'll stick around.
08:26I don't think Steph Curry's going anywhere, depending on what he's going to make.
08:30But you're already looking at maybe the oldest group.
08:33So you're not going to be able to be young, and you probably won't be able to be that deep
08:37unless your young guys all take a step forward.
08:40So the Warriors are going to kind of have to wait for this whole thing to age out.
08:44Before they really start to get into the spot that these other teams are.
08:47Let's take some calls.
08:48Let's go to Mario in San Rafael.
08:50Hi, Mario.
08:51Thank you for checking in with us.
08:52What's up, man?
08:54Yeah, I think, you know, we look at the Warriors very differently than I think players do.
09:00It's like when we go to someone's house.
09:01We go to a different city.
09:02Oh, it's beautiful.
09:03We're well taken care of.
09:05But there's no way we'd live there.
09:07I mean, take a look at the free agents like Giannis, like Luka, or other players that have been traded.
09:12You know, Andy, they don't want to come to the Bay Area.
09:16They don't do what it takes to force themselves to go to Golden State.
09:21They force themselves to go to Miami, to go to New York, to go to Los Angeles.
09:25Those are seen as destination cities.
09:27And sadly, I just don't see the Bay as a destination city if you want to maximize your overall brand
09:34and your endorsements.
09:36See, Mario, it's interesting.
09:38Thanks for the call, man.
09:39I don't see it as the city.
09:41I know a lot of people do.
09:44But I don't see it as the Bay Area.
09:46I mean, you got free agents going to Oklahoma City.
09:50So, you know, San Antonio.
09:53I don't think it's about San Francisco.
09:54I think it's about the roster.
09:56It's about two things to me.
09:58It's about the roster and the readiness to win.
10:00And then it's about what assets do you have to sort of entice the trading team.
10:06You mentioned Giannis and Luka.
10:08Neither of them actually were free agents.
10:09Neither of them were even heading into their free agent year.
10:12They are now.
10:13But Luka was traded in the middle of the night, had no idea that he was going to be a
10:16Laker.
10:17Giannis had Miami as one of his destinations, not the only one.
10:21And they came up with the best deal because they had some young players that Milwaukee found interesting.
10:29So, this is just me.
10:31I'd remove that fear.
10:33I don't think players around the league are like, oh, that chump Chase Center out there on the water in
10:38the Bay Area
10:39with all the business opportunities in Silicon Valley.
10:42No thanks.
10:43I don't think it's that.
10:44I just think it's timing.
10:46I don't think the Warriors right now have a roster that feels ready to win.
10:49And I don't think that they have the young assets that other teams are interested in.
10:54Yeah, and that's why you have to go back to Kevin Durant and the signing there, the free agent signing.
11:00That team was peak.
11:02And Seth was making a lot less than he certainly is now and less than he could have made.
11:06And you were able to financially maneuver at that time to create a spot where Kevin Durant could land here.
11:13The pitch was good.
11:15KD won to win.
11:16It was a natural fit.
11:17With the rules today, it's really limiting to be able to go out and get somebody else's free agent
11:22because if they own the bird rights, and Grandy's really good at all of this mumbo-jumbo,
11:27but the team that has the player and those bird rights, you have a greater ability to pay them and
11:32keep them up to a point.
11:34Now, you still can't go over the second apron, blah, blah, blah.
11:37But the Warriors, pending the Jimmy Butler resolution after next year,
11:42Steph Curry, what he decides that he wants to take, Draymond if he's here, and all the rest of it,
11:47you might have a lot of room, but if you do have a lot of room,
11:51it still doesn't mean it's easy to go out there and just get players.
11:53Not easy.
11:54Yeah, definitely not.
11:55Ed in Portland is next.
11:56Hi, Ed.
11:57Thank you for calling.
11:58What's up?
11:59Willard, happy to be on, man.
12:01Long-time listener, but first-time caller.
12:03I feel like you're the only one that has any sense on this show anymore.
12:06That's for sure.
12:07That is for sure.
12:09All right, see if you can join me in that, Ed.
12:13Listen, I want to talk about something that the reports say Joe Lacob is saying,
12:19and that's something that he wants to show what the Warriors can do with Steph and after Steph.
12:24And what I see them doing is kind of not making a decision.
12:27Are they going all in with Steph, or are they rebuilding?
12:31Are they building the next generation?
12:34And with this Draymond signing, I don't think you have much flexibility left.
12:37I was hoping they would make some trades ahead of time.
12:39But here's what I'm thinking.
12:41At some point, you're going to have to get creative.
12:44Nobody's ever won the finals or gone deep in the playoffs without drafting well and getting creative.
12:50At some point, they're going to have to take a gamble, and they're going to have to take a risk.
12:54And I think what maybe they should consider doing, given the limited amount of flexibility in the cap space that
13:01they have,
13:02I think they've got to go and try to get some young players from this recent draft.
13:09You know, this was a high-quality draft class.
13:11And I think they've got to put their picks on the table and see if they can use their future
13:16assets to get some younger guys that are going to get them to the end of the season.
13:22I do think it's a talented team with the veterans that we have.
13:25But we've got to be able to get to the point where Jimmy's coming back, and Steph has to be
13:31healthy at that point.
13:32And the only way we do that is if we have a young core that's developing.
13:36And so I think they've got to try to turn those future assets into current assets.
13:41That's my take.
13:41I wonder what you think about it.
13:43Ed, appreciate the call.
13:44Thanks so much.
13:46Go ahead.
13:47Get it off your chest.
13:48Thanks, Ed.
13:50Lose our number.
13:51I'm just kidding.
13:54It's a great idea, in theory, that Ed is bringing up.
13:57Let's get some younger players.
13:59I just think, like so many things in life, it comes down to money.
14:03The Warriors, look, I think it's fair to be frustrated.
14:06At the same time, you do have to acknowledge the financial difficulty in which they sit.
14:12So even if they did want to use future assets to get young players now, how?
14:17How do you fit them in?
14:18You've got to clear money in order to do that.
14:20This is true for all teams.
14:22And there's very little way to do that right now when your players are older and expensive
14:30and many of them hurt.
14:32And the good young players tend to be coveted and kept by the teams that have the good young
14:38players.
14:38And that's just kind of the reality of the situation, Ed.
14:44Thanks, Ed.
14:45Yeah, thanks.
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