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Grandes debates europeus em The Ring - Segurança da UE, a que preço?
Com a pausa estival da atividade parlamentar, revisitamos debates da temporada e questões-chave para a UE: defesa num mundo instável e resposta a conflitos externos
LEIA MAIS : http://pt.euronews.com/2026/07/29/grandes-debates-europeus-em-the-ring-seguranca-da-ue-a-que-preco
Subscreva, euronews está disponível em 12 línguas.
Com a pausa estival da atividade parlamentar, revisitamos debates da temporada e questões-chave para a UE: defesa num mundo instável e resposta a conflitos externos
LEIA MAIS : http://pt.euronews.com/2026/07/29/grandes-debates-europeus-em-the-ring-seguranca-da-ue-a-que-preco
Subscreva, euronews está disponível em 12 línguas.
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NotíciasTranscrição
00:07Olá e bem-vindo a essa especialidade de The Ring, Euronews's weekly debate show.
00:14Eu sou Mave McMahon.
00:15Na The Ring, membros do Parliaments go face-to-face
00:19com alguns dos mais pressionais do nosso tempo.
00:21As eles tomam a breaka da cidade para a recessão,
00:25nós estamos mostrando algumas das histórias de ação.
00:27Com a guerra em Ucrânia fechando heavy e EU e EU member states investindo billions em defesa,
00:34a grande pergunta que nós temos que para os membros do Parliaments
00:37é como se devemos gastar no defesa e quem deve for a billa.
00:41Para a vista do evento, nós podemos ver uma extertão de este episódio
00:45entre Ryo Terras, um ex-general de Estonia,
00:49e Martin Schurden, um ex-MEP de Germany.
00:55I think we are derailing the discussion here.
00:58It's not about to spend money on healthcare systems or defense.
01:03It's about defending Europe.
01:04Because we see that an aggressive Russia is willing and able
01:08to use conventional military weapons against countries.
01:12And Putin has very often declared that he wants to rearrange the security system in Europe.
01:18And if we are not ready, if we don't fulfill our own taking tasks,
01:23then we are not able to defend Europe as a whole and separate countries of it.
01:28And Martin Schurden, that is a fair point, what Ryo Terras makes there.
01:31Because just think of Brussels just the other day,
01:33the airport was shut down for 30 minutes because of drone incursions,
01:37allegedly Russian drone incursions,
01:39buzzing over Dool, the nuclear plant, right by the port of Antwerp.
01:43Brussels had to call the UK in order to come and help,
01:46but wasn't able to defend itself in this situation.
01:48Yeah, exactly.
01:48That was supposedly a Russian drone.
01:50We don't know that yet.
01:51Well, I'm not defending Russia here.
01:52Maybe it was Russia.
01:53Maybe it was the third country.
01:54Maybe it was a private here.
01:55Who knows?
01:56But obviously, Europe is tested also in its military capabilities.
02:01So, of course, we need to do something in order to discuss
02:04how to defend the European Union,
02:06how to defend the member states,
02:07in case there would be a violation of international law,
02:10meaning an attack against one of the member states.
02:13This is not the case so far, so we can take time,
02:15but just a little bit, to discuss how to spend wisely
02:18the money that we have at our hands into defense.
02:22And a new security order does not only depend on defense capabilities,
02:26it also depends on how we implement international law,
02:30how we strengthen international organizations.
02:32And this is something that I'm really missing,
02:35especially in the discussion of the conservatives.
02:40How much to spend and where to spend it?
02:43Money, of course, one of the major points of discussion
02:46on that episode of The Ring.
02:48Defense came up in another fascinating, lively debate on The Ring
02:51that we had between the Austrian MEP
02:53from the European People's Party, Lucas Mandel,
02:55and the Belgian MEP from the left, Marc Batenga.
02:58Take a look.
03:02First of all, I don't think the massive increase is justified.
03:05Let's say this first.
03:06Secondly, I think it actually will weaken Europe on the long term as well,
03:10because contrary to what you're saying,
03:12it is not a good idea for our industry.
03:14You know, we have, you speak about jobs.
03:16Basically, the defense industry yields less jobs
03:19for money invested than other sectors do.
03:21You will not save the steel industry with militarization.
03:24You know, producing 1,000 tanks,
03:27it's about three days of production of a steel factory.
03:29So you can see that you're actually weakening also.
03:32There's a negative multiplier effect
03:33that might be applied to other industries.
03:36So you're weakening structurally the industrial base of Europe
03:39by saying we put more defense, but we will lose other sectors.
03:42Look at the automobile sector.
03:44And secondly, indeed, what is the threat
03:46that justifies, you know, this massive...
03:48Why, for example, if I hear the German chancellor, right,
03:52saying, I want to have the biggest army in Europe.
03:55Why do you want the biggest army in Europe?
03:57Is that your threat assessment?
03:58That the problem is you don't have the biggest army in Europe?
04:01We need to be very clear.
04:02There are threats, you know,
04:03and one of the threats is the arms race.
04:05One of the threats is nuclear war.
04:07Let's be very clear.
04:08This is very clear.
04:09How do you deal with that?
04:10During the Cold War, we knew disarmament,
04:15transparency, limitations on arms control systems.
04:18All of these things we knew during the Cold War
04:20with the Soviet Union that was vastly more powerful
04:23and vastly more ideological than Putin or Putin's Russia will ever be.
04:27Okay.
04:28Do you hear this?
04:29In the Cold War, freedom won against dictatorship.
04:32And this was, of course, due to deterrence.
04:36And deterrence is what is needed.
04:37Deterrence will also save us.
04:39And deterrence is only possible if we can take care of ourselves.
04:42And the security sector and industries
04:44is not isolated from other sectors.
04:46We have to understand Europe.
04:48And I really care for Europe's prosperity,
04:50for jobs on our continent,
04:51and for the future of the generations ahead.
04:54Europe became a continent of consumption.
04:57We have been consuming over decades innovation from America,
05:01production from China and other parts of Asia,
05:04also innovation from China in the meantime.
05:06So we need innovation on European soil.
05:08We also need production on European soil.
05:11And when you talk about the automotive sector,
05:13there are not many sectors as much connected
05:15to the security sector as this one.
05:17So security and economy has to be taken serious.
05:21That's why I'm also saying,
05:23let's put first things first.
05:25This must be the priority.
05:29Now it's time for our viewers to get a real flavor
05:32of the European Parliament chamber,
05:34where members ask each other questions.
05:36And sometimes it can get heated.
05:39So let's get started.
05:40Lukas Madl, I'm going to ask you
05:43to ask the first question to Mark.
05:46Well, Mark Buttenger,
05:47as a colleague in the European Parliament,
05:49how can we make sure that we establish
05:52more freedom for the Europeans
05:53to the inside and more strength to the outside?
05:56This is the overall issue of our time,
05:57I would say.
05:58Europe needs more strength for its civilization,
06:00for its reliability,
06:02the diplomatic approach
06:03that you obviously do not see
06:05from the European side,
06:06while Europe is the strongest diplomatic power
06:09given the geopolitical situation today.
06:11So how can we create more strength to the outside
06:14and how can we establish more freedom
06:15to the inside for our citizens?
06:17I think that's a very interesting question
06:19coming from the center-right,
06:20who's governing in many governments in Europe
06:22and who's basically limiting the right to protest,
06:26who's limiting the right to strike,
06:28who's limiting basically fundamental freedoms
06:30of Europeans.
06:31And so I would say first thing,
06:34please tell the governments of your political group,
06:37of your political party,
06:38to stop limiting the fundamental freedoms of Europeans.
06:42And secondly, towards the outside,
06:44I need, we need, I think,
06:46to rebuild European credibility.
06:49And how do we do that?
06:50We do that by stopping the double standards,
06:52by no longer saying international law
06:55is important for us in Ukraine,
06:56but in Palestine we don't care.
06:58International law is important
06:59when Russia or Putin violates it,
07:02but we don't care
07:03when Trump violates international law.
07:05because if you have these double standards,
07:07never, ever will other countries
07:09take you seriously
07:10and never, ever will you be a decent player
07:13on the international scale.
07:14Okay, on this,
07:15I think you want to follow up.
07:18I mean, there is so much to be said.
07:21I think it was now
07:22the fourth or fifth conspiracy theory
07:23from Mr. Potenga in today's talk
07:25about freedom being limited in Europe.
07:28There is no part on this planet,
07:30no continent, no country
07:31where freedom is so much established
07:32and so much defended and strong
07:34as it is in Europe.
07:36Obviously, also that we have this debate today,
07:39also that extremists have
07:41all democratic rights in parliaments in Europe,
07:44including the very European parliament.
07:46All of this is about freedom.
07:48And then mixing things up
07:49doesn't make it better.
07:51Of course,
07:52when international law is violated,
07:53Europe is the strongest voice
07:55speaking about that.
07:56Europe stood strong
07:57against Trump's attempt,
07:59for example,
07:59when it comes to Greenland.
08:01And we succeeded in that area.
08:03Europe stood strong
08:04when it was not clear
08:05whether the terrorists
08:07will go that way
08:07or the other way
08:08from Trump's side.
08:09He put us in a limbo again,
08:11but we didn't follow
08:12this pathway of a limbo.
08:13We didn't enter
08:14this political battlefield of Trump.
08:16We stood strong
08:17and we managed to succeed more
08:20when it comes to the geopolitical tensions
08:23given than other parts of the world.
08:25But of course,
08:26we need more strength to the outside,
08:27especially in that field
08:28you are doubting
08:30in the field of our own security
08:32and being able to take care of it.
08:33Mark Magier,
08:34you want to react?
08:35And then your question
08:36to Lucas Mando.
08:37Well, I think it's interesting
08:38because very often
08:39the EPP and central parties,
08:41when they don't have an answer,
08:42they say this is a conspiracy theory.
08:43What we see in many countries,
08:45like in Germany now,
08:46there's a debate even on saying
08:47we can't use the watermelon anymore
08:49as a political symbol
08:50because it would be anti-Semitic.
08:51This is, you know,
08:52what we are seeing.
08:53We're seeing this also
08:54with action against trade unions
08:56in different countries.
08:57So we see that
08:58there's a democratic backsliding
08:59which human rights organizations
09:00are pointing out in Europe.
09:02You know,
09:02it's not some kind of
09:03left conspiracy to say that.
09:05But you don't want to see it
09:06because it's your governments doing it.
09:08Secondly,
09:09what I indeed want to ask now,
09:11and I think that's a thing,
09:13you say,
09:15that Europe stands up
09:16for international law
09:17and you quote Greenland.
09:19Europe didn't stand up
09:21for international law in Greenland.
09:22It stood up
09:23for its own territorial integrity.
09:26That is something very different
09:27because when we had to stand up
09:29for international law,
09:31the illegal war on Iran,
09:32you supported it yourself.
09:34When it is about denouncing
09:36the illegal occupation of Lebanon
09:37by Israel,
09:38you support it.
09:39When the International Court of Justice
09:41says that we should sanction Israel
09:43as third parties,
09:44because we have a responsibility,
09:45you refuse it.
09:46So basically,
09:47when, you know,
09:48the Venezuelan president,
09:49whatever we think of him,
09:50is kidnapped illegally
09:51and the world globally condemns this,
09:54saying this is just absolutely
09:55not how we deal with,
09:57how would I say,
09:58with international relations
09:59and this is a violation
10:00of the UN Charter,
10:01you support it.
10:02So this is the issue.
10:03These double standards,
10:04it's not Europe
10:05that has double standards,
10:06you know.
10:07It is you,
10:08it is the governing coalition
10:09of Europe
10:09that has these double standards.
10:11Look,
10:11who is dealing
10:12with international law,
10:13who is in the lead
10:16of preserving it
10:17and observing it
10:17is the United Nations.
10:18We had yesterday night
10:19in the European Parliament's plenary
10:21a debate
10:21on the United Nations
10:22necessary reform.
10:25United Nations
10:25have to be reformed
10:26for obvious reasons
10:28and if you are telling now
10:30that the war
10:32on the Iranian regime
10:34was wrong,
10:35I say,
10:35yeah,
10:36it was amateurishly done
10:37by the United States
10:39while the decapitation
10:41of the Mueller regime's leaders
10:43worked very well.
10:44But the war obviously was wrong
10:47because it didn't work out well.
10:48The Mueller regime
10:49is still in place.
10:50I have been sanctioned myself
10:51by the Mueller regime
10:52since 2023,
10:52so I know what I'm talking about
10:54when I say
10:55women are suppressed
10:57in Iran
10:58and Iran is threatening
10:59the whole world,
11:00not only the region
11:01and, of course,
11:02to threaten our only partner country
11:05in the region,
11:05the only democracy,
11:06the only rule of law-based state
11:08in the region,
11:08Israel,
11:09is part of the conspiracy theories
11:11of your political side
11:12and this is a sign
11:14of freedom in Europe
11:14that you can speak freely
11:15about that
11:16even if it's a very much
11:20in minority being opinion
11:23but you are allowed to say that
11:25and there are not many parts
11:26on earth
11:27where you can do that
11:27and last point
11:28on Greenland.
11:29I mean,
11:29when international law
11:30is violated,
11:31it doesn't matter
11:31whether it's Europe's interest
11:32or ours' interest.
11:33We care for international law.
11:34We even want to save
11:36international law
11:37during these geopolitical times
11:38of tensions
11:39and that means
11:41that we have to reform
11:41the United Nations.
11:42Okay,
11:43thank you
11:43for a great debate
11:45so far.
11:46We've heard your views.
11:48Now it's time
11:48to hear from
11:49a new voice.
11:54And for our quote of the week
11:57I would like to bring in
11:58Italian Prime Minister
11:59Giorgia Meloni
12:00in a letter addressed
12:01to Commission President
12:02Ursula von der Leyen
12:03she said this,
12:04We cannot justify
12:06to our citizens
12:07that the EU
12:08allows financial flexibility
12:10to be used
12:11for security
12:12and defense purposes
12:13in the strictest sense
12:15but not to protect
12:16families,
12:17workers
12:17and enterprises
12:18from a new energy crisis
12:20that threatens
12:21to severely impact
12:22the real economy.
12:25your take
12:26on this,
12:27Mark.
12:28Well,
12:28two things.
12:28First,
12:29she's walked back
12:29to on her statement.
12:30Secondly,
12:31it's terribly hypocritical
12:32because the fact
12:34that we now have
12:35again these horrible
12:36austerity rules
12:37was approved
12:38by her government.
12:39So first,
12:40and this is fantastic,
12:41first the far right
12:42approves this
12:43or the center right
12:44whatever you want
12:44to call her
12:45approves these rules
12:46and then they say
12:47ah,
12:47it's not fair.
12:48So this is,
12:48you know,
12:49pure populism
12:50but what is true
12:52is that Europe today
12:53says there's no money
12:54for your hospitals,
12:56for your pensions,
12:57for your schools
12:57but miraculously
12:59we find hundreds
13:00of billions
13:01for the defense
13:02multinationals.
13:03You know,
13:03this contradiction
13:04is real
13:04and so indeed
13:05we do not need
13:06these austerity rules
13:07anymore
13:08and once again
13:09they've been imposed
13:10by the mainstream parties
13:11including
13:12Georgia Maloney's.
13:13Okay,
13:13Lucas Mandel,
13:14your reaction?
13:14Yeah,
13:14this is part of
13:15the extremist
13:15populist approach.
13:16I think also
13:17the consumers,
13:18viewers of this program
13:19should see that
13:20there's no contradiction
13:22between producing
13:23something on European soil
13:24instead from buying it
13:25from outside
13:27and having hospitals
13:28and schools
13:29and streets
13:30because the one thing
13:31is connected with the other.
13:33If we have strong prosperity,
13:34if we have growth
13:35finally in Europe again
13:36we will also be able
13:37to afford
13:38the social welfare states
13:39we have established
13:40generations before us
13:41have established in Europe
13:42and we will have
13:43schools and roads.
13:46And another major issue
13:48that dominated
13:49the European news agenda
13:50this year
13:51was the war in Iran
13:52and the impact
13:53it's happening
13:53on the European Union
13:54and also on our economies.
13:56We had a lively debate
13:58between the Spanish MEP
13:59from the Socialists
14:00Hannah Khalul
14:01and the Austrian MEP
14:02from the European People's Party
14:04Reinhard Lopatka.
14:08As you know
14:09and as my prime minister
14:11have stated
14:12we think that
14:13any unilateral
14:14military intervention
14:15that have not passed
14:16through the security
14:17against the United Nations
14:18is not in compliance
14:20with international law.
14:22So we condemn
14:23any unilateral attack.
14:26This is not to say
14:27that we are supporting
14:28the Iranian regime
14:29in any case
14:30because we have
14:31been against the Iranian regime
14:32criticizing the killing
14:33of Masha Amini
14:34and you know
14:35the protesters
14:35you know
14:36in the streets
14:36that were fighting
14:37for human rights
14:38and their liberties
14:40and we have
14:42always condemned
14:43the relation
14:44of the Iranian regime
14:45with the militias
14:46such as Hezbollah
14:47or the Houthis
14:48or Hamas.
14:49So very critical
14:50with them
14:50always
14:51and we fought
14:52to include
14:53the Revolutionary Guard
14:54in the EU terrorist list.
14:55So a condemnation
14:56of the Iranian regime
14:58but also
14:59of the US
15:00Israeli intervention.
15:01Mr. Lopatka
15:02do you think
15:03that this military intervention
15:04from the US
15:05and Israel
15:05was justified?
15:07I can't agree.
15:09Why?
15:10Because
15:10if we would wait
15:12until the Security Council
15:13of the United Nations
15:15is acting
15:15we would never
15:16have a result.
15:17You know
15:17it is blocked
15:18by Russia
15:19and China
15:21they always support Iran
15:22whatever is ongoing there.
15:24So don't forget
15:25this regime
15:27in Iran
15:28the Mullah regime
15:29is a terrorist regime.
15:31what did they do?
15:32They killed
15:33thousands of their own people.
15:36There was state oppression
15:37to the Kurds.
15:39There are 8 million Kurds.
15:40Have in mind
15:41how they killed
15:43Masha
15:43some years ago.
15:46They are founding
15:47terrorist groups
15:49in the region.
15:51Hamas
15:51Hezbollah
15:52the Houthis
15:53and they are
15:54a big danger
15:55also for Europe.
15:56We should not forget it.
15:57It was a diplomat
15:59he was in Vienna
16:00in our embassy.
16:02Then he was sentenced
16:03here in Belgium
16:04for 20 years
16:05because he was
16:06supporting terrorism
16:07here
16:08on European soil.
16:09So what I want
16:10to say is
16:12we can speak
16:13about
16:14international law
16:16and here you can say
16:17maybe it was illegal
16:18but I think
16:20the United States
16:22and Israel
16:23were legitimized
16:25to start
16:26with these strikes.
16:27So let me put
16:28that argument
16:28to you
16:28MEP Yalalul.
16:30He's saying
16:30well
16:30maybe the legality
16:32is questionable
16:32but isn't Europe
16:34letting the US
16:35and Israel
16:36do its dirty work
16:38in the Middle East
16:38by going after
16:39the proxies
16:40going after
16:40the nuclear
16:41and missile programs
16:42of Tehran
16:42for example.
16:43Do you agree with that?
16:44Well what I do think
16:45is that we have
16:46diplomacy for something.
16:48First of all
16:48we cannot use
16:49double standards.
16:50We cannot criticize
16:51other aggressions
16:52you know
16:52for other countries
16:53and then say
16:54that this is something
16:55we can do.
16:56that this is about
16:56international law
16:57the system
16:57that we gave
16:58to ourselves
16:59after 45.
17:00So either we believe
17:01in international law
17:02or we don't believe
17:03in that.
17:03And we have means
17:04like diplomacy.
17:05Let's remember
17:06that one day
17:07before the conflict
17:08even the Iranians
17:09sitting in a table
17:12of negotiation
17:13with the Omanis
17:13said that it will work
17:15not to enrich themselves.
17:16We know that
17:17and we have investigating
17:18and we send inspectors
17:20in order to see
17:20that it were enriching
17:21and even if the director
17:25of the nuclear agency
17:26said a few days ago
17:27that they were not sure
17:28that they were building
17:30nuclear weapons
17:30but they had more
17:32than 60%
17:33of the allowed
17:33enrichment of uranium
17:34so we have been
17:35very critical of that.
17:36We were under control
17:37but don't forget
17:37that we have also
17:38a deal in 2015
17:39between Iran
17:40and six other countries
17:41where the US
17:41were within that countries
17:43even Russia and China
17:44and then the US
17:46unilaterally deployed
17:47afterwards
17:48which had as a consequence
17:50Iran enriching much more
17:53and restricting
17:53more of the inspections
17:54so either we have
17:56a consensus against Iran
17:58on diplomacy
17:59fighting the enrichment
18:00on uranium
18:02and targeting
18:03any other kind
18:04of activities
18:05they can have
18:05or I mean
18:06it cannot be unilateral
18:08we need to go
18:09all together
18:09and based on
18:10international
18:10base rule system.
18:11You bring up
18:12this question
18:12of double standards
18:13because the EU
18:14does pride itself
18:15on upholding
18:16the rules-based order
18:17international law
18:18you said yourself
18:19that you question
18:20the legality of this
18:21yet the EU
18:22always is talking
18:22about international law
18:23in places like
18:24like Ukraine
18:25isn't this double standards
18:26from the EU?
18:27No, not at all.
18:28Why?
18:29There's a big difference
18:30between the invasion
18:31in Ukraine
18:32of Russia
18:34to take the country
18:35not respecting
18:37the sovereignty
18:37not at all
18:38and the situation here
18:40the UN charter
18:41and I'm absolutely
18:43sure that the purpose
18:44of it is to protect
18:46human life
18:47and not to shield
18:48terrorist regimes
18:49like in Iran
18:50the Security Council
18:52is not working
18:53so we are in a very
18:55difficult situation
18:56because I think
18:58the bigger threat is
19:00when the Security Council
19:02is misused
19:03by regimes
19:05like Iran
19:07by dictators
19:09like Putin
19:10and on the other side
19:12we have to do
19:14everything
19:14to protect
19:16the interest
19:17of our people
19:18and fighting terrorism
19:20and Iran
19:22is the biggest sponsor
19:23of terrorism
19:24giving Israel
19:26the chance
19:27to survive
19:28as a nation
19:29I think
19:30this is our duty
19:31and it's absolutely
19:32in the interest
19:33of Europe
19:34so there's a big difference
19:36and no double standards
19:37not at all
19:41As you can see
19:42there are lots of questions
19:43but really hard
19:43to find the answers
19:45now it's time for us
19:46to take a short break
19:46here on this special
19:47summer edition
19:48of The Ring
19:49don't go anywhere
19:50we'll be back soon
19:59Welcome back
20:00to this special
20:01summer edition
20:02of Euronews debate show
20:03The Ring
20:04I'm Maid MacMahon
20:05in Brussels
20:06and as MEPs
20:07take a break
20:08from the city
20:08for the summer
20:09and the activities
20:10in the European Parliament
20:11institution behind me
20:12take a slow
20:13we're looking back
20:14at some of the highlights
20:15of this season
20:16on The Ring
20:17one topic
20:18that featured a lot
20:19was of course
20:19the war in Iran
20:20and how Europe
20:21should respond
20:21we can take a look
20:22now at an excerpt
20:23from this edition
20:24between Rio Terrace
20:25the Estonian
20:26European People's Party
20:27MEP
20:28with Oswald Demeriel
20:29a far left MEP
20:30from Germany
20:34We have seen
20:38wars emerge
20:40around us
20:40Europe has not
20:41launched any wars
20:42Europe has not
20:43in the last
20:44like 70 years
20:45not been part
20:46to a war
20:47itself
20:48but we see
20:49others attacking
20:50European countries
20:51around us
20:52do you think
20:53that Europe
20:53can solve
20:54these problems
20:55diplomatically
20:56or do we need
20:57military means
20:59to back up
21:00our diplomatic efforts
21:01and if not
21:03what is the other way
21:04to be honest
21:05to be honest
21:06yes
21:06the European Union
21:07as the European Union
21:08didn't
21:09launch wars
21:10but European member states
21:12were also in the past
21:13part of wars
21:15like we saw
21:16in Afghanistan
21:17like we saw
21:18in Iraq
21:19like we saw
21:20in Libya
21:20it was not
21:22UK
21:23is not anymore
21:23European Union
21:24but it was also
21:25European countries
21:26so it's not true
21:28that the European Union
21:29in the past
21:30was just standing
21:31for diplomacy
21:32and against wars
21:33in this world
21:33so if we want
21:35to answer
21:36the times
21:36of wars
21:37we have to go
21:38back
21:38and to stop
21:39about talking
21:40just about militarization
21:42do you know
21:42the definition
21:43of a dialogue
21:44yes sure
21:45that means
21:46that it needs
21:46two parts
21:47who want to discuss
21:48to talk to each other
21:49if one side
21:51wants to talk
21:51and the other one
21:52is not
21:52and I have been
21:53experiencing myself
21:54trying to reach out
21:56to Russian chief
21:57of defense
21:58as I was chief
21:58of defense
21:59and the response
21:59was why
22:00nobody wants
22:01to talk to us
22:02and not
22:04dictator Putin
22:05not chairman Xi
22:06they don't care
22:07and as long
22:09as we are weak
22:10we are not
22:11at the table
22:12and the dialogue
22:13needs two sides
22:14and if Russia
22:16understands
22:17only military means
22:18and they did not
22:20use diplomacy
22:20maybe a reaction
22:21on them
22:22to that
22:22I don't know
22:23what you mean
22:24with weak
22:24European Union
22:25is one of the huge
22:26or one of the biggest
22:28economic powers
22:29of the world
22:30and also the European
22:31member states
22:31has a lot of military
22:33instruments
22:34and we are spending
22:35a lot of money
22:36for military means
22:38so it's like this
22:39the facts are on the table
22:41so don't tell
22:42just we are like this
22:44or we are like this
22:44what is happening
22:46by now
22:46is that the European Union
22:48also decided
22:49like the US
22:49like China
22:50like other big powers
22:52in this world
22:52that they want to defend
22:54its own interests
22:55and this means
22:56resources of the world
22:58trade routes of the world
22:59by military means
23:00and what this means
23:02is that people are dying
23:03that the working class
23:04all over the world
23:05is paying the bill for it
23:08and this is not acceptable
23:09this is why I'm rejecting
23:10this military means
23:12and I'm saying
23:12we have to find another way
23:14to protect lives
23:16to protect our earth
23:17there are certain things
23:19we cannot do yet
23:20that is the response
23:21to what we can
23:22or cannot do
23:23so we need to invest
23:25commonly together
23:27to a drone defense
23:29because we have seen
23:30a new weapon
23:32developing
23:32a disruptive technology
23:33which has been used
23:34in Ukraine
23:35and kills people
23:36we need for example
23:38to invest in this kind
23:39of technologies
23:40in order to make sure
23:41that our people
23:42are defended
23:43and they are not dying
23:46let me say clearly
23:47it's not a solution
23:49for nobody
23:50to prolong wars
23:51and it's also like this
23:53that not just Putin said
23:54I don't want to negotiate
23:55it was also like this
23:57that the western countries
23:58long long time said
23:59we had no possibilities
24:00to negotiate
24:01we don't want to negotiate
24:03and this was
24:05prolonging this war
24:06and the result of this war
24:08is not good
24:09for the Ukrainian people
24:10so let me say this
24:13you are from the EPP
24:14and you are standing
24:15for a conservative politics
24:17you are
24:17in the last weeks
24:19your group has
24:20really weakened
24:22the right of asylum
24:23in European Union
24:25systems
24:26and it's like this
24:27that the war in Iran
24:28also has the result
24:31that people had to flee
24:32that they become refugees
24:34and maybe they want
24:35to come here
24:35what is your answer
24:36why are you supporting wars
24:38or not rejecting wars
24:40not doing everything
24:40to stop wars
24:41and on the other side
24:43working against people
24:44who are affected
24:45by this war
24:46and become refugees
24:47what is your answer
24:48may I start with saying
24:50EPP is not launching wars
24:51is not causing wars
24:53and the only thing
24:54EPP stands for
24:55is to defend people
24:57against the wars
24:58which are around us
24:59be it an Iran regime
25:03which has been killing
25:05torturing people 47 years
25:08or be it Russia
25:09who has never listened
25:10to anybody
25:11who launched wars
25:12since 2008
25:14whose political aims
25:17are
25:17who wants to achieve
25:18its political aims
25:20by military means
25:21and just on the potential
25:22refugee
25:23yeah yeah
25:23I'll come back to that
25:24and so
25:25that is not what we want
25:26and we want
25:27European people
25:29live safely
25:30in Europe
25:32but
25:32we are ready
25:34to take refugees
25:35but we don't want
25:36to have illegal refugees
25:37we don't want
25:38to have illegal refugees
25:40we want
25:41to know
25:42who is living
25:43in Europe
25:44and who is not
25:45and that's what
25:45we stand for
25:46it is now time
25:47to move on
25:48to our fifth
25:48and final round
25:50are you ready?
25:54so now
25:55it is time
25:55for something
25:56a little bit different
25:57I'm going to be asking
25:58our MEPs
25:58a set of questions
26:00and
26:00you only have
26:01the opportunity
26:02to answer
26:03with yes
26:03or no
26:05so
26:06was it a good idea
26:07to kill
26:07the supreme leader
26:08Ali Khamenei
26:09yes or no?
26:11I don't like him
26:12but I don't think
26:13that it's
26:14that it's illegal
26:15and it shouldn't be
26:16was it a good idea
26:17yes or no?
26:18yes
26:19is the US
26:20still a friend
26:21to the European Union
26:22yes or no?
26:23yes
26:23the US people
26:25yes
26:25Trump no
26:26should the EU
26:27be more involved
26:28in this war
26:28yes or no?
26:30clearly no
26:31yes
26:32and should
26:32European countries
26:33increase defence spending
26:35yes or no?
26:35yes
26:36no
26:38should Europe
26:39focus on
26:39renewable energy
26:40yes or no?
26:41yes
26:41and manage a mix
26:43manage a mix
26:44and should NATO
26:45be involved
26:46if the conflict
26:47expands
26:48yes or no?
26:49no
26:49no
26:50I'm against NATO
26:51also
26:52and just a question
26:53on European governments
26:54should European governments
26:55be subsidising
26:56energy costs
26:57today now
26:57to protect consumers
26:58yes or no?
26:59yes
26:59yes
27:01and is Iran
27:02a direct threat
27:03to European security?
27:04no
27:05yes
27:06and it has always been
27:08okay
27:08and have you agreed
27:09on anything
27:09that you've heard here?
27:14and what about you?
27:15have you agreed?
27:15I agree that
27:16renewable energy
27:17is a part of the energy mix
27:22and you can watch
27:23the full episode
27:23of that edition
27:24of The Ring
27:25on Euronews.com
27:26but that does bring
27:27this special
27:28summer edition
27:29of The Ring
27:29to an end
27:30we'll be back
27:31very soon
27:32but in the meantime
27:33do let us know
27:33what topics
27:34you want us to debate here
27:35The Ring
27:36at Euronews.com
27:37that is our email address
27:39but for now
27:39thanks for tuning in
27:40take care
27:41and see you soon
27:41on Euronews
27:42for now
27:44you
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