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UE ainda é relevante num mundo sem regras? Eurodeputados debatem no The Ring
Continua a UE relevante num mundo onde o poder eclipsa o direito internacional? The Ring, debate semanal da Euronews, opõe dois eurodeputados sobre temas-chave.
LEIA MAIS : http://pt.euronews.com/2026/01/19/ue-ainda-e-relevante-num-mundo-sem-regras-eurodeputados-debatem-no-the-ring
Subscreva, euronews está disponível em 12 línguas.
Continua a UE relevante num mundo onde o poder eclipsa o direito internacional? The Ring, debate semanal da Euronews, opõe dois eurodeputados sobre temas-chave.
LEIA MAIS : http://pt.euronews.com/2026/01/19/ue-ainda-e-relevante-num-mundo-sem-regras-eurodeputados-debatem-no-the-ring
Subscreva, euronews está disponível em 12 línguas.
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NotíciasTranscrição
00:00E aí, e bem-vindo a The Ring,
00:11Euronews' debatinho show
00:12broadcasting from the European Parliament
00:14here in Brussels.
00:15Once a week, two elected members
00:18of the European Parliament
00:19go face-to-face on some
00:21of the most pressing issues of our time.
00:24This week we'll be asking
00:25if the European Union is still relevant
00:27in a world where rules
00:29and international law
00:30are no longer respected.
00:32Before we meet our guests, though,
00:33let's just take a look
00:34at what exactly is at stake.
00:37As the rule-based international order weakens,
00:40the question is no longer
00:41whether power is exercised,
00:43but whether it is exercised legitimately.
00:46The loss of faith in diplomacy
00:47seems evident in the growing willingness
00:49of powerful states
00:51to ignore international law.
00:52From the U.S. intervention in Venezuela
00:55and its interest in Greenland,
00:56Russia's invasion of Ukraine
00:58to China's conflict with Taiwan.
01:01Europe, by contrast,
01:02appears divided and reactive,
01:04hesitant to challenge Washington
01:05and unclear about its own role.
01:08Will Europe defend the rules-based order
01:10or accept a world
01:11where power defines legality?
01:15That is the question
01:16that we have for our contenders today.
01:19Let's meet them.
01:19Hendrik Dahl,
01:22a Danish MEP
01:23and a member
01:24of the European People's Party Group.
01:26He's an expert
01:27on the EU's internal market,
01:28employment and legal affairs.
01:30Before entering EU politics,
01:32he was a long-time member
01:33of the Danish parliament.
01:35He's also a published author
01:36of several books
01:37on sociology and politics.
01:39There has never been
01:40a rules-based international order.
01:42What is new
01:43is admitting it,
01:44he said regarding
01:45the U.S. Caesar
01:46of Venezuelan leader
01:47Nicolás Maduro.
01:49Lina Galvez,
01:51a Spanish MEP
01:52and a member
01:52of the Progressive Alliance
01:54of Socialists and Democrats Group.
01:56She's an expert
01:56in feminist economics
01:58and gender equality
01:58and chairs the Committee
02:00on Women's Rights
02:01and Gender Equality.
02:02She's also a member
02:03of the European Parliament's
02:04delegation for relations
02:05with the United States.
02:07Commenting on the latest events,
02:08she said,
02:09Trump is dismantling
02:10the international multilateral system
02:12and the human rights framework
02:14and the EU,
02:15will it continue to be soft,
02:17shameful.
02:19Heinrich Dahl
02:20and Lina Galvez,
02:21welcome to their ring.
02:24Great to have you with us.
02:25Now, the idea here
02:26is to give our viewers
02:27a taste of what it's really like
02:29inside the European hemicycle.
02:31So I hope you feel
02:31right at home.
02:33Lina, perhaps we'll start with you.
02:34Is the European Union
02:35still relevant
02:36on the world stage?
02:37Still is,
02:38but unless we change
02:40certain things,
02:41it will not be
02:42because the world is changing.
02:44It's changing too fast,
02:45probably.
02:46It was changing already
02:47before the latest happenings.
02:50And that's the problem.
02:51The EU and the structures
02:52and the processes
02:52cannot keep up
02:53with that pace,
02:54Mr. Dahl.
02:55We are going to have to fight
02:56for our relevance
02:57because the new currency
02:58is raw power
02:59and we have economic power
03:02but real raw,
03:03old-fashioned power
03:04is something we are
03:05in short supply of
03:05so we have to improve ourselves.
03:08And is that message clear
03:09inside the European Parliament
03:11or is it still
03:11business as usual
03:13taking time
03:14to get things done?
03:15I think we are still
03:16a bit on business as usual.
03:18Unfortunately,
03:19we need to move faster
03:21than we are moving right now
03:23and we have to say also
03:25there are some actors
03:27that are very much
03:28in favour
03:29of a very different
03:31European Union
03:31but not in the sense
03:33of more Europe
03:33but less Europe
03:35and this is something
03:36we cannot afford now.
03:37Well, that's an interesting
03:38point you make
03:38because of course
03:39there are threats externally
03:40but there are also threats internally
03:41that question the whole idea
03:43of the European Union,
03:44Mr. Dahl.
03:46There are many problems
03:47in the European Union
03:48because some of the major countries
03:50have internal problems
03:52so there is very little
03:56decision-making power
03:57in some of the capitals
03:58and we need decision-making power
03:59in the big capitals as well.
04:01Yeah, but we also really need
04:03to empower the European Parliament
04:04because we are directly elected
04:06by citizens
04:07so we have also
04:09a lot of things
04:10to do here
04:10and I think
04:11if all the pro-European
04:13and pro-democratic forces
04:15manage to work
04:17closer together
04:18in a very real way
04:20and with coherence
04:21that will improve very much
04:23the role of the European Parliament.
04:24Because as it looks now,
04:25Mr. Dahl,
04:26the EU often appears
04:27very weak
04:28on the world stage.
04:29If you look, for example,
04:30at the statement
04:31that the EU,
04:32the EAS put out,
04:33the Foreign Affairs Chief,
04:34Kaya Callas,
04:35it was 26 member states
04:36on the violent capture
04:38of Nicolas Maduro
04:39in Venezuela
04:40by the Trump administration.
04:42Why is the EU
04:43always so weak
04:43and always so divided?
04:45Because we are
04:46an economic union
04:47and most of the European countries
04:48rely on NATO
04:50for hard security.
04:52So there is a division
04:53of labor.
04:54But sometimes I think
04:55we are grabbing
04:56the wrong tools
04:57in the toolbox.
04:58I have come to realize
04:59that Vladimir Putin
05:00is not really afraid
05:01of resolutions
05:01and he is not afraid
05:02of strongly worded letters
05:03and we have to understand this.
05:05And that is often
05:06the problem here.
05:06The Parliament
05:07has become
05:07a place of resolutions,
05:10of statements,
05:11of words.
05:12But in fact,
05:13more is needed,
05:13especially when it comes
05:14to this issue
05:15in Venezuela.
05:15What's your view there?
05:16We saw as well
05:17the European Commissioner,
05:18Teresa Liberta,
05:18rather critical
05:19of this soft,
05:21cautious stance
05:22of the EU on Venezuela.
05:23I mean,
05:23I think we need
05:24to be coherent.
05:25And if we say
05:26we are for multilateralism
05:28and international law,
05:30we have to do it.
05:31And obviously,
05:33we don't like
05:34a Venezuelan regime.
05:35It was not
05:36a democratic regime.
05:37That is clear.
05:38Most of the European Parliament,
05:40even my own country,
05:41Spain,
05:42that was a bit more vocal,
05:43did not recognize
05:44the result of the elections.
05:46But it does not mean
05:47that we need to prove
05:50what has happened
05:51in Venezuela
05:51because that was
05:53a breakdown
05:54of international law.
05:55And we have to be coherent
05:56and we have to be
05:57very clear about it.
05:59And are we being coherent?
06:00That is the problem.
06:00I don't think
06:01we are being very coherent.
06:03But I think
06:04we have to accept
06:04that we have
06:05a rules-based order
06:06on our own continent.
06:08But there is not
06:09a global rules-based order
06:11because if you look
06:12at the five permanent members
06:13of the UN Security Council,
06:14three of them
06:15don't really care
06:16about the UN Charter
06:18and they violate
06:19the UN Charter constantly.
06:20The new thing is
06:21that the United States
06:22used to rhetorically
06:23abide by the rules-based order.
06:25but when it came to
06:26the arrest of Maduro,
06:28Trump didn't even bother
06:29to talk about democracy.
06:30He just talked about
06:31oil and power.
06:33I agree that we
06:34did not have
06:36an international rule order
06:38as such.
06:39But,
06:40and that it was
06:40broken before,
06:42the problem
06:43or the difference
06:44is that the US
06:45is still the biggest power
06:47and is able really
06:49to change the rules
06:51in a faster way
06:52and in a way
06:53other actors
06:54are not able to.
06:55So,
06:57even if I agree
06:58in the sense
06:58that the international order
07:00was not working
07:03as we think
07:04it was working
07:05or at least
07:05as theoretically
07:07it should be working,
07:08it has been a change now
07:10and we are,
07:11yeah,
07:12seeing a change now.
07:13We feel it's a deeper problem
07:14because under normal circumstances
07:16which are not normal,
07:17if somebody attacked Greenland
07:19we would invoke
07:20Article 5 of NATO
07:21but if the United States
07:22attacked Greenland
07:23they are supposed
07:24to guarantee Article 5
07:25so you can't really invoke it
07:26if the attacking party
07:28is the party
07:29that's supposed
07:29to guarantee Article 5.
07:31So why Europe
07:32should jump in?
07:33Why Europe should jump in?
07:34Well,
07:34one way perhaps
07:35that Europe
07:36or the EU
07:36could jump in here
07:37an idea that some MEPs
07:39have been floating
07:39is to freeze
07:40the EU-US trade deal
07:42as a way to put pressure
07:43on the administration
07:45of Donald Trump
07:45not to touch Greenland.
07:47Lina Gavis,
07:47would you be in favour of this?
07:49Yeah, of course.
07:50I'm also in the
07:52International Trade Committee
07:53and in the US
07:55delegations.
07:56We are not very active
07:58in the recent month
07:59I have to say.
07:59In the previous term
08:00we were meeting
08:02almost every week
08:03we were going
08:04there were years
08:05they went even five times there
08:07to meet with them.
08:07The communications are down.
08:08And we are not doing that
08:10anymore
08:11so that means something
08:13already
08:14but of course
08:15we have weapons
08:16we have power
08:17we are not using
08:18and we really need
08:20to think seriously
08:20about using it.
08:22And just Mr. Dal Greenland
08:23a topic very close
08:25to your heart
08:25as a Danish politician
08:27what would be your view?
08:28Is freezing
08:28those EU-US trade
08:30talks a good idea?
08:31I think you need
08:32to take one step
08:34at a time
08:34on the escalation ladder
08:36and I think
08:36stopping the deal
08:38would be more
08:39than one step.
08:39According to me
08:40it would not be
08:41the natural first step.
08:43But how can the Europeans
08:44negotiate
08:44with President Donald Trump
08:46and his administration
08:47on tricky issues
08:48like trade
08:49like tech
08:49like Greenland
08:50etc.
08:51So the international order
08:53is now moving
08:54towards
08:55even not only
08:56the international order
08:57I mean the rules
08:58that Trump
09:00have seen
09:00that the international order
09:03is not working
09:03so he's trying to change
09:04in his benefits
09:06and his benefits
09:07is even
09:08not in capitalist terms
09:10he's not looking
09:11for benefits
09:12he's looking for rents
09:13so he's really changing
09:15the whole role
09:17of the game
09:17so we cannot enter
09:19on that framework
09:20of rents
09:21on that framework
09:22of coercion
09:23we really need
09:24to see
09:25the power we have
09:26that we have
09:26a lot of power
09:27we are a great market
09:29and we are powerful
09:32and we need to be united
09:34that is important
09:35and we really need
09:36to use whatever
09:37we can't use
09:39a lot of people
09:40in this town
09:40were disappointed
09:41that we had to accept
09:42the 15% tariff
09:44but I think
09:45it's sort of
09:45a kind of a sober
09:48reflection
09:49of the bargaining power
09:50I think that's where
09:51the bargaining power is
09:52of course
09:52we are really embedded
09:54with the US
09:54that's a reality
09:55we are dependent
09:56on many things
09:57I did a lot
09:58on cyber security
09:59in the previous term
10:00so I know
10:01what I'm talking
10:01I can't tell you
10:03we are really dependent
10:04but we really need
10:07to rethink
10:09that this world order
10:10is not anymore working
10:11and we really need
10:13to be smarter
10:14and united
10:15I insist on that
10:16so we are a political
10:17pair and not just economic
10:19well just to some extent
10:21because we haven't
10:21discussed Ukraine
10:22but one of the reasons
10:23we accept the 15% tariff
10:25is that we don't want
10:26the United States
10:27to pull out of Ukraine
10:28because even though
10:29we are doing much more
10:30than we used to do
10:31we are still dependent
10:32on the United States
10:33if we want to support Ukraine
10:35so in order to keep
10:38the United States in
10:39when it comes to Ukraine
10:40we have to accept
10:41certain things
10:42and just a final point
10:42perhaps on Iran
10:43which is on all
10:44of our minds here
10:45what role can the
10:47European Union play here
10:48to have a say in Iran's
10:49hopefully democratic future
10:50I hope so
10:52but Iran is a very complicated
10:54country and area
10:56because it's not like
10:57in Venezuela
10:58that we knew already
10:59for the past elections
11:00that most of the population
11:02was against the Maduro regime
11:03this is not the case
11:04in Iran
11:05so the blood
11:07that we can see
11:08if we do not
11:10act in a very
11:12proper way
11:14very clear
11:15for democracy
11:16it could be very
11:18I think we should
11:20classify the revolutionary
11:21guard as a terrorist
11:22organization
11:23and that's in fact
11:24what Roberta Metzola
11:25said to the president
11:25of the European Parliament
11:26in the interview this week
11:28on Euronews
11:28that you can catch
11:29but I'll stop you
11:30there
11:30because we want
11:31to dive deeper
11:32into the debate
11:33so now it is time
11:38to give our viewers
11:39a real taste
11:40of the chamber
11:40where MEPs
11:41you fire questions
11:42over and back
11:43to each other
11:43and you often
11:44do not know
11:45what exactly
11:45is coming
11:46so that is what
11:47we plan to do
11:48right now
11:48Lina Galvis
11:49would you like to begin
11:50with your first question
11:51for Mr. Dal
11:52now that President Trump
11:54set his side
11:56on Greenland
11:57and you are Danish
11:59and you are from the EPP
12:00is your political family
12:03your political party
12:05here
12:05the European Parliament
12:06be more vocal
12:08criticizing the United States
12:10for certain decisions
12:11that affect international law
12:13just
12:13we have the case
12:14of Venezuela
12:15but with the trade agreement
12:17you were also
12:19you know
12:20not very critical
12:21with it
12:23so
12:23it makes any change
12:25now with this
12:26threat on Greenland
12:27yes I think
12:28we will
12:29because
12:29the
12:30the thing
12:32we are going to
12:32criticize
12:33as far as I know
12:35the conference
12:36of presidents
12:37is still discussing
12:38this
12:38is that the United States
12:40is not honoring
12:41the treaties
12:43they have made
12:43so they are not honoring
12:44an old agreement
12:45from 1916
12:46that was during
12:47the First World War
12:48and they are not honoring
12:49the defense agreement
12:50from 1951
12:51so we are going to
12:52criticize the United States
12:53more vocally
12:54and just to remind our viewers
12:55when you refer to
12:56the conference of presidents
12:57you are referring to
12:57the meeting of all the
12:58various presidents
12:59of the political groups
13:00here in the parliament
13:01Mr. Dal
13:02it's time for you
13:02to address your first question
13:03to Lina Galvez
13:04my question is
13:06I think
13:07on behalf of
13:08all the Nordic countries
13:09and all the Baltic countries
13:10and it is about
13:12Spanish defense spending
13:13when are you going
13:15to reach 3.5
13:17or 5%
13:17we think that would be
13:19a nice act
13:19of solidarity
13:20you know
13:21I'm an academic
13:22I'm an economics professor
13:25so I study
13:25what you say
13:27before coming here
13:28and you are very much
13:29with efficiency
13:30so sometimes
13:31you could be efficient
13:32with lower expenditure
13:34and Spain has double
13:36expenditure
13:37and in a very efficient way
13:39really meeting
13:42all the targets
13:43they will put
13:44to the country
13:45so I think
13:46Spain has made
13:48a huge effort
13:49both in terms of
13:50budget
13:51and efficiency
13:52so I think
13:53we should really
13:53need to look
13:54to efficiency
13:54because if we only
13:56need look
13:56to the percentage
13:57we will be entering
13:59in this
13:59Trump framework
14:01of rents
14:02and I think
14:03this is not
14:03what we want
14:04not for Spain
14:05nor for Europe
14:06Mr. Dal
14:06I'll let you
14:07catch your breath
14:07while you address
14:08your next question
14:09please
14:09I would like
14:11an answer
14:11on behalf of
14:12your prime minister
14:13because your prime minister
14:14said that
14:15nuclear weapons
14:16ought to be used
14:17against Israel
14:18are you in favor
14:19of using nuclear weapons
14:21against Israel
14:22to be honest
14:24I haven't
14:26hear
14:26Pedro Sánchez
14:28to say that
14:29and I really doubt
14:31he has said that
14:32at all
14:34to be honest
14:36I haven't
14:37where did you hear him
14:38say that
14:38I'm not
14:39a pro-nuclear
14:41weapon person
14:42he is not
14:43as far as I know
14:44I just
14:46went
14:47in October
14:48for a mission
14:49in Japan
14:50I visited
14:50Hiroshima
14:51that I have never
14:52visited in my life
14:53and I don't think
14:54anyone who has
14:55really visited
14:56Hiroshima
14:56what happened there
14:57could be
14:58in any moment
14:59in favor
14:59of nuclear weapons
15:01he said it
15:01publicly
15:02at a political rally
15:03but I will
15:05find the clip
15:06and we will
15:08share it as well
15:08with our viewers
15:09on social media
15:10Lina Galvez
15:11you have the opportunity
15:12to address
15:12one more question
15:13now to Mr. Dal
15:14now I would like
15:15to ask you
15:16on Venezuela
15:17and also
15:18regarding your
15:19political group
15:20you confirmed
15:22that your
15:22political group
15:23rejects
15:24the recent
15:24military actions
15:26carried out
15:26unilaterally
15:27in Venezuela
15:28and defends
15:29that they
15:30contribute
15:31in the fundamental
15:31principle
15:32of international law
15:33even though
15:34Venezuela
15:34is not a
15:35democratic country
15:36and all
15:36members of
15:37your part
15:38especially
15:39Spanish
15:39EPP
15:40has been
15:41really
15:42very
15:43concentrated
15:44on
15:44Venezuela
15:45in a way
15:46to criticize
15:47the Spanish
15:47government
15:48without a
15:49real
15:49case
15:50for it
15:51since
15:52we have
15:52half a million
15:53Venezuela
15:53in the country
15:54we have been
15:55very vocal
15:55on helping
15:56to liberate
15:57prisoners
15:58or
15:59even we have
16:00the lead
16:01of the opposition
16:02living in our
16:03country
16:03so I would like
16:04to know
16:05more about it
16:06we have been
16:07very supportive
16:07of the
16:08democratic
16:08opposition
16:09there was
16:10a vote
16:10in parliament
16:10about whether
16:12or not
16:12to recognize
16:13the election
16:13we had a lot
16:15of discussions
16:15about
16:16are we supposed
16:17to vote
16:18for and against
16:18it's even
16:19called
16:19Venezuela
16:20majority
16:20when we
16:21vote
16:21with the
16:22right wing
16:23so we have
16:23been supportive
16:24of the
16:24democratic forces
16:25in Venezuela
16:26all along
16:27and we
16:29are still
16:29supporters
16:29of the
16:30democratic
16:31Venezuela
16:31sorry but
16:33what about
16:33what had
16:34happened
16:34with the
16:34US
16:35I mean
16:35with the
16:35Trump
16:36intervention
16:36in Venezuela
16:37it is of course
16:39a grey zone
16:40and we recognize
16:41that we are in a grey zone
16:42here but
16:43but you have to
16:46consider the fact
16:46that Maduro
16:47was an
16:47illegitimate
16:48leader of the
16:49country
16:49ok we'll have to
16:51close that
16:52there but
16:53thank you so much
16:54for addressing
16:55questions to each
16:55other we heard
16:56the views there
16:56from the MEPs
16:57I'd also like to
16:58bring in a new
16:59voice here
16:59now we'd like to
17:04bring in the voice
17:05of Viktor Orban
17:06Prime Minister
17:07of Hungary
17:08who's often known
17:08for going against
17:09the Brussels line
17:11in a recent
17:12press conference
17:12he praised
17:13Trump's operation
17:14in Venezuela
17:15and said Hungary
17:16will not leave
17:17the European Union
17:18but the European Union
17:20will fall apart
17:22on its own
17:23a kind of
17:23disintegration
17:25will take place
17:25and chaos
17:26will emerge
17:27in leadership
17:28what do you make
17:29of this statement
17:30Mr Dal
17:31I think
17:33Viktor Orban
17:34is a troll
17:35and I think
17:36you have to
17:37understand him
17:37as sort of
17:38a real life
17:39social media troll
17:41who says
17:42outrageous things
17:43in order to
17:43elicit
17:44crazy responses
17:46so it's kind of
17:47the equivalent
17:49of rage bait
17:51in real life
17:52well he's also
17:53in campaign mode
17:54it's worth pointing out
17:54as well to our viewers
17:55Lina Gavis
17:56if you're part of a club
17:57should you not be
17:58promoting the club
17:59and defending it
18:00of course
18:01but I don't think
18:03it is a troll
18:04I think it's part
18:05of an international
18:07far right
18:09club
18:10and for him
18:12this is more important
18:13and they have a plan
18:14and the plan
18:15is to destroy
18:16the European Union
18:17as it is
18:17as it has also
18:18written down
18:19Trump now
18:20in his
18:21external strategy
18:22so I think
18:24he's a trojan horse
18:25within the European Union
18:26so probably
18:27it is also
18:28time for us
18:30to act
18:30regarding
18:31I think it's a
18:32question of psychology
18:33because I mean
18:34I think Viktor Orban
18:35is totally annoying
18:36just like you think
18:37but from a psychological
18:39point of view
18:40I think sometimes
18:40you need to ignore
18:41annoying people
18:42because they become
18:43more annoying
18:44if you respond
18:45to what they say
18:46but what he says
18:46is so catchy
18:47that's why
18:47we were playing
18:48this clip here
18:49on Euronews
18:50but when you go silent
18:53I mean you ignore it
18:54it can happen
18:55what has happened
18:55other times in history
18:57so I don't think
18:58this is the moment
18:59the same is
19:00with Trump
19:02I will be
19:03very humiliating
19:04if I will be
19:04from Greenland
19:05just saying
19:06oh prime
19:07who is that person
19:08that said
19:09Greenland should stay
19:10with John Murray
19:12was the prime minister
19:12so this continuous
19:14humiliation
19:15I'm a woman
19:16I feel humiliated
19:17for him
19:18every time
19:18he opens his mouth
19:20and so I don't think
19:21we should stay silent
19:23we should be very vocal
19:24he will lose
19:24the next election
19:25and then we are rid of him
19:26well we'll have to
19:27stay tuned to see
19:28what exactly happens
19:29in those elections
19:30taking place
19:31on the 12th of April
19:32we'll cover them
19:32very carefully
19:33for you here
19:34on Euronews
19:34but now it is time
19:35to take a short break
19:36but stay with us
19:37because we'll be back
19:38very very soon
19:39with some more
19:39political punch
19:40from the European Parliament
19:41welcome back
19:51to the ring
19:51Euronews's weekly
19:53debating show
19:54I'm joined here
19:55by MEP's
19:55Heinrich Dahl
19:56and Lina Galvez
19:57and the idea here
19:58is to bring
19:59European Parliament
20:00debates
20:00exactly to your couch
20:01but we also want
20:02to bring in
20:03how the public
20:04feel about all
20:04these topics
20:05and actually
20:05before the events
20:06of the past month
20:07we saw Europeans
20:08were already
20:09increasingly wary
20:10of US power
20:11on the global stage
20:12according to a survey
20:13of the European Council
20:14of Foreign Relations
20:15about 49% of EU citizens
20:17no longer see
20:18the United States
20:19as a true ally
20:21viewing it instead
20:22as a necessary partner
20:23and according to
20:24the Coupe d'études géopolitiques
20:2670% of Europeans
20:29so 7 in 10
20:30say the European Union
20:31should rely on
20:32its own armed forces
20:34for security
20:35and only 10%
20:36believe Europe
20:37can rely on
20:38the US
20:39for defence
20:39so there seems
20:40to be a very
20:40strong demand
20:41out there
20:42for European
20:42strategic autonomy
20:44I would like
20:45to get your views
20:45as well
20:46especially for you
20:47Lina Galvez
20:47as a socialist
20:48I know this topic
20:49is very tricky
20:50when it comes
20:50to where the money
20:51should be focused
20:51well I think yes
20:52if we really need
20:53to move towards
20:54strategic autonomy
20:56we really need
20:57to increase
20:58our security
20:59and defence
21:00capacities
21:01your voters
21:02in Spain
21:02do they support this
21:03oh well
21:04in Spain
21:05less than
21:06in other countries
21:07but still
21:08it is a question
21:09of talking
21:11really
21:11what is the reality
21:13and that we really
21:14need to move more
21:15defence and security
21:16but also
21:17to make the changes
21:18that will make
21:20this strategic autonomy
21:21possible
21:22because unless
21:23we move
21:24to more Europe
21:25in other policy areas
21:27like more fiscal
21:28linear
21:29or even
21:29industrial policies
21:31a common
21:32industrial policies
21:32we really cannot
21:33talk about
21:35industrial
21:35sorry
21:36strategic autonomy
21:37so what will
21:38Europeans have to
21:38give up
21:39to reach this goal
21:40I don't know
21:41I think that's why
21:42you have politics
21:42because sometimes
21:43things are possible
21:44in politics
21:45that you didn't
21:46think were possible
21:46but let me say
21:48I was a little bit
21:49puzzled
21:50when President Macron
21:51introduced strategic
21:52autonomy in 2017
21:54but he was ahead
21:56of his time
21:56it was very visionary
21:57what he said
21:58and I'm very happy
21:59that 7 out of 10
22:00people believe
22:02in this concept
22:02because I think
22:04it's the right thing
22:04to do
22:05but because the US
22:06is quite frankly
22:07not there
22:07we're seeing that
22:08on a daily basis
22:09and that's why
22:09there's so much
22:10pressure as well
22:10on Spain
22:11to increase
22:12defence funding
22:12exactly
22:13but of course
22:14we have to discuss
22:15priorities
22:16that's what we do
22:17at home
22:17that's what I did
22:18for almost a decade
22:19and once you have
22:20this debate
22:21about priorities
22:21I think most people
22:22are able to understand
22:23the landing zone
22:25eventually
22:25where the compromise is
22:26but that means
22:27perhaps that
22:27Emmanuel Macron's
22:28strategy did work here
22:29well it is
22:31I think it is working
22:32we are moving
22:33towards that
22:34at least a part
22:35of the chamber
22:35I go back
22:36to what I was saying
22:36at the very beginning
22:37there are part
22:38of the chamber
22:39almost a third
22:39of the chamber
22:40that are really
22:41against more Europe
22:42and if we want
22:43to advance
22:43and to have
22:44a strategic autonomy
22:45it's a very
22:46ample aspect
22:47and we are doing
22:48already
22:49we are also
22:50putting in
22:51this dual use
22:52I'm the rapporteur
22:53from my group
22:54on the new framework
22:55program on research
22:56and innovation
22:56and we are including
22:58dual use
22:58for everything
22:59so the security
23:02expenditure
23:03and politics
23:04it does not go
23:05only directly
23:06on security
23:08and defence
23:08but also
23:09in other policies
23:10and we are moving
23:11towards that
23:11because people
23:11are worried
23:12our viewers
23:12are concerned
23:13that we will
23:14not be able
23:14to protect
23:14the social economy
23:15that we are so
23:16proud of here
23:16in Europe
23:16no that is what
23:18Ukraine tells us
23:19because let's assume
23:20that we decided
23:21to go all in
23:22and help Ukraine
23:23still what we could
23:25muster would not
23:26be enough
23:26we are still
23:27dependent on
23:28the United States
23:28if we want
23:29to keep Russia
23:30at bay
23:30and it is dawning
23:32on more and more
23:32people that this
23:33is the way things are
23:34but it is not
23:35what people want
23:35clearly as you have
23:36seen from that poll
23:37yeah but we need
23:38more Europe
23:39I mean of course
23:40there are a lot
23:40of disinformation
23:41going on
23:42and there is
23:43a lot of
23:43engineers of cows
23:45as Giuliano Dempoli
23:47is saying
23:47behind those pools
23:48too
23:49so there is
23:50a lot of
23:50misinformation
23:51going on
23:52and a lot of
23:53actors that really
23:54want to destroy
23:55the European Union
23:55and this is also
23:57reflected in the pools
23:58in a way or another
23:59and in the populism
24:00is that as well
24:01so we really need
24:02to have that in mind
24:03what does that mean
24:03then on a practical
24:04level
24:04having more Europe
24:05does it mean
24:06radical reforms
24:06here
24:07we thought in Europe
24:08that we could do
24:09without hard power
24:10but it turns out
24:11that hard power
24:12is a necessity
24:13and we have to
24:15supply the hard power
24:15ourselves
24:16and that means
24:17that we have to
24:18change our priorities
24:19are our leaders
24:20though bold enough
24:21do they have enough
24:21vision
24:21yeah when you put
24:23them under pressure
24:24but they are risk
24:25aversive because
24:26they want to be
24:26re-elected
24:27but you have to
24:27put them under
24:28a certain amount
24:28of pressure
24:28but it's not the
24:28problem though
24:29always under pressure
24:30under crisis
24:30the EU can work
24:31and if not
24:32it's just let's
24:33wait and see
24:33kind of
24:34well we have managed
24:35in the past
24:35to be honest
24:36when we were
24:37in front of a crisis
24:38we were able
24:39to go out
24:40with more Europe
24:41or a better Europe
24:42I hope this time
24:43will be the same
24:44however
24:44there is a big difference
24:46it's the polls
24:47it's the public opinion
24:49that is more anti-European
24:52in certain areas
24:53in certain places
24:53and some parties
24:55that are inside the chamber
24:56and also in the council
24:57that are really against
24:59the idea of the Europe
25:00we have been building
25:01it is time to move on
25:02to our fifth
25:03and final round
25:04are you ready
25:04now it is time
25:09for something
25:10a little bit
25:11different
25:12I'm going to be
25:13asking our guest
25:14MEPs
25:15quick questions
25:16on set
25:17and they only have
25:17the permission
25:18to answer
25:19with a yes
25:20or a no
25:21answer
25:22I'm not very good
25:22at that
25:23is that doable
25:23yes
25:24ok
25:25well on that
25:26positive point
25:26we can start
25:27is the European Union
25:29the best place
25:30in the world
25:30to live
25:31yes or no
25:31yes
25:32yes
25:33do you think
25:35the future
25:35of the European Union
25:36is bright
25:37yes
25:40let's say yes
25:41let me be optimistic
25:42I think so too
25:43are the EU institutions
25:46fit for purpose
25:48Lina Galvas
25:48yes or no
25:49no
25:49what about you
25:50Mr Dal
25:51no
25:52they need to
25:53tighten up
25:53could the European Union
25:55defend itself
25:56alone
25:56if the European
25:57United States
25:58excuse me
25:59did not step in
26:00to help
26:00Mr Dal
26:01no
26:01Lina
26:02no
26:03can the European Union
26:05respond quickly enough
26:06to various global crises
26:08yes or no
26:09Lina Galvas
26:10no
26:11what about you
26:13Mr Dal
26:13no
26:14is the role
26:16of Kaya Kallas
26:17that's the EU
26:18foreign affairs chief
26:18is it important
26:19yes or no
26:20no
26:20Mr Dal
26:22same question to you
26:23yes I think so
26:24what about Trump's
26:26attempts
26:27to take
26:28Greenland
26:29could this see
26:29the end
26:30of the NATO
26:31alliance
26:32Mr Dal
26:32yes
26:33what about you
26:34Mr
26:35yes
26:35yeah
26:36should the European Union
26:37have its own
26:38army
26:38Lina Galvas
26:39yes
26:40would you agree
26:41with that
26:41yes or no
26:42should we have
26:42our harmony
26:43no
26:43and are EU leaders
26:46do you think
26:46in control
26:47of their own destiny
26:48no
26:50yes or no
26:51yes
26:53is it time
26:55to radically
26:55reform the EU
26:56yes or no
26:57yes
26:57yes
26:58and on that point
27:00of the need
27:01to radically
27:01reform
27:02we can bring
27:03this conversation
27:03to an end
27:04I'm sure you could
27:05continue discussing
27:06all these issues
27:07at length
27:07but this does bring
27:08this show to an end
27:09thank you so much
27:10as well to our viewers
27:11for tuning in
27:12if you would like
27:13to reach out to us
27:14and let us know
27:15how you feel
27:15about any of these topics
27:16you can read
27:17or you can write to us
27:18on the ring
27:18at euronews.com
27:20but for now
27:20thank you so much
27:21for watching
27:22thank you also
27:22to Lina Galvas
27:23and to Henrik Dal
27:24from Denmark
27:25for joining us
27:26and being our guests
27:27take care
27:27and see you soon
27:28here on Euronews
27:39Euronews