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Espanha: crise migratória em Ceuta testa solidariedade europeia em debate no The Ring
Esta semana em The Ring, eurodeputados confrontam-se sobre a crise migratória em Ceuta, debatendo o papel de Marrocos, a resposta de Espanha e se a UE faz o suficiente, num debate que levanta mais questões do que respostas
LEIA MAIS : http://pt.euronews.com/2026/09/11/espanha-crise-migratoria-em-ceuta-testa-solidariedade-europeia-em-debate-no-the-ring
Subscreva, euronews está disponível em 12 línguas.
Esta semana em The Ring, eurodeputados confrontam-se sobre a crise migratória em Ceuta, debatendo o papel de Marrocos, a resposta de Espanha e se a UE faz o suficiente, num debate que levanta mais questões do que respostas
LEIA MAIS : http://pt.euronews.com/2026/09/11/espanha-crise-migratoria-em-ceuta-testa-solidariedade-europeia-em-debate-no-the-ring
Subscreva, euronews está disponível em 12 línguas.
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NotíciasTranscrição
00:08Olá, e bem-vindos a The Ring, Júri News's weekly debate show,
00:13broadcasting this week from the European Parliament here in Brussels.
00:17I'm Maeve McMahon.
00:18Aqui no The Ring, membros do the European Parliament
00:21go face-to-face on some of the biggest political issues
00:25facing the European Union.
00:27This week, as we mark over one a month since thousands of people arrived
00:31irregularly on EU soil in Ceuta,
00:34we take a look at how a tragedy in Spain has become a crisis for Brussels
00:39and what the adequate response should be.
00:42To begin, here's our Luis Albertos with this refresher.
00:47Last July, tens of thousands of irregular migrants crossed from Morocco into Ceuta,
00:52a small Spanish city on the North African coast.
00:56More than a month later, with 150 casualties and thousands still stranded in Ceuta,
01:01the situation remains critical and the political fallout huge.
01:06This week, Ceuta's leader came to Brussels to address this issue.
01:10Spain is still trying to find out what happened and how.
01:12Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez says the far right is exploiting the crisis.
01:17Meanwhile, people are taking the street and opposition parties calling for him to step down.
01:22But this story goes far beyond Spain.
01:25Italy introduced temporary border controls on all those arriving from Spain,
01:29prompting Spain to respond with checks on arrivals from Italy,
01:32putting pressure on Europe's Schengen system of free movement.
01:36Can Europe come together in a crisis like this?
01:39Did Spain receive enough support?
01:41And has the EU migration pact unraveled just as it started being enforced?
01:49The questions we have for our panelists.
01:52Let's meet them.
01:54Tomasz Fedechowski, a Czech MEP from the center-right European People's Party.
01:59A former journalist, he sits on the Committee on Civil Liberties, Justice and Home Affairs,
02:03as well as the Committee on Budgetary Control and the Special Committee on the European Democracy Shield.
02:08An advocate for stronger external borders and faster asylum procedures, he says,
02:12Europe does not have to choose between humanity and security.
02:16We need both.
02:17We must protect people who genuinely flee persecution,
02:20control who enters our territory,
02:22fight smugglers and return those who have no right to stay.
02:26Birgit Zippe, a German MEP from the Socialist and Democrats Group.
02:30She is a member of the Committee on Civil Liberties, Justice and Home Affairs
02:33and currently chairs the European Parliament's Working Group
02:36overseeing implementation of the EU Migration and Asylum Pact.
02:39She was also the Parliament's rapporteur for the new EU screening rules at external borders.
02:44She says,
02:46The only answer to events like we have seen in Theuta is European solidarity.
02:50Member states must stand together and respect EU and international law
02:54when dealing with instrumentalized migrants.
03:00Thomas Fedechowski and Birgit Zippe, thank you so much for joining us.
03:04Welcome to The Ring.
03:05The idea here is to give our viewers a glimpse of how your real debates unfold right here in the
03:11hemicycle.
03:12So let's begin.
03:13In your humble opinion,
03:14who do you think is responsible for this mass illegal border crossing back at the end of July?
03:20No, we don't have clear evidence,
03:23but after years that we see,
03:25I think there are different actors who again and again try to test European Union and its values.
03:30So it might be third countries, governments, criminal gangs, social media, internet and with that also big tech companies.
03:39So it's a mixture and we are not yet there to precisely find out who was doing all this in
03:46the event of Ceuta.
03:47And how would you assess Spain's handling of the situation, the Spanish government of Pedro Sánchez?
03:53I have to say that I disagree with this conclusion.
03:58Yes, of course, we have many actors who are responsible for this situation,
04:02but also we have a political responsibility,
04:07and this is the responsibility of the Spanish prime minister, Mr. Sánchez.
04:11Yes, he was informed before this situation from the Spanish intelligentsia.
04:16He had an opportunity to send it some forces there.
04:21So what should he have done?
04:23He didn't react on the situation very well.
04:26What should he have done? What would you have done?
04:27He should have it there, clear evidence who is now in Ceuta.
04:33He has to proceed with these people.
04:36He has to decide...
04:38But what would you have done?
04:39Because this is huge. We're talking about almost 80,000 people.
04:43He has to take control about Ceuta and he has to negotiate with Morocco.
04:49This is the problem that is on two sides, Spain and Morocco.
04:54Pedro Sánchez is obviously part of your political family, the socialists.
04:58Did he mishandle this crisis, do you think?
04:59I don't care who is in government and from which political party.
05:03But whenever things like that are happening, to what country ever, the first thing that we have to do is
05:09show solidarity, which is also part of the common European asylum system, which should be implemented and enforced since the
05:1712th of June this year.
05:19And if you really believe something has been done from any member state within European Union, you can check.
05:26But the first reaction also is showing solidarity, because otherwise we tell third countries you can test us.
05:33We are weak.
05:34And therefore I miss solidarity.
05:36There was no solidarity.
05:37Let's be honest.
05:38It was during the summer vacation as well that this incident happened.
05:41We didn't see any solidarity from any countries.
05:43But, sorry, how we can show the solidarity if Spain doesn't ask us for what they needed from us?
05:52They said we have everything under the control.
05:55Was that a mistake?
05:55There is no one in there.
05:57Was that a mistake to ask so late for help?
05:58I think the Spanish government did what they could do in that concrete situation.
06:03Because, yes, nearly 80,000 people arrived irregularly, but the big majority of them could be returned to Morocco within
06:11only hours.
06:13So I think they did their best in the very concrete situation.
06:17But, of course, as still some people are remaining in Ceuta, which is a very small part, so they still
06:24need support how to deal with those who are still staying there.
06:28I disagree with them, because I was in a mission in Melilla last week with EPP.
06:35We had it there really many MEPs where we are experienced in immigration issues.
06:43And in this time we ask, because we had a meeting also with policemen, which were present on our meetings.
06:51And we asked Pedro Sanchez for bringing Frontex to Melilla and Ceuta to help with the situation.
07:01What was his reaction?
07:02It was a reaction that no one will dictate him what he will do.
07:07And now his reaction is take only 10 people to Ceuta to proceed.
07:14Who is who?
07:14And proceed the situation and return the people back to Morocco.
07:19I think you want to respond to that?
07:21I had to laugh a little bit, because you did not answer the question, what precisely Sanchez should have done
07:27in the situation when the people were upon arrive.
07:30Now you say he should have asked Frontex to come.
07:33But for what purpose?
07:35To hinder people to leave the sea and enter the country and to shoot them down?
07:40I don't understand what Frontex could have done to improve the situation.
07:43Sorry, but I will respond it now very clearly.
07:48If you have it so emergency situation, first, what you have to do is make the situation secure and clear.
07:57And I think this is the send it 500 soldiers or 500 policemen to Ceuta.
08:05And is it unrealistic also to think that one country alone can manage on an EU external border when this
08:09kind of episode happens?
08:10And it's good to remind our viewers, this is not the first time we've seen this happen.
08:15That's true.
08:17That's why I would like to repeat again and again.
08:20This is not really only a question on migration.
08:23Third country actors are testing us.
08:26We have seen it, for example, at the Polish-Belarus border, where people, human beings were abused, were pushed and
08:34brought to the border.
08:35Now we see the same thing in Ceuta.
08:38And I think the question, therefore, is much broader.
08:41And we have to ask the question why third country actors are doing that, why they are testing us.
08:47And that's even more a reason to be united in solidarity.
08:51Well, on that very point, we did see the president and the mayor of Ceuta.
08:54He was here in Brussels this week with a cry for help, saying that his city is, quote, on the
09:00edge of the abyss.
09:02Speaking to the press, Juan Jesus Pivas, a member of the European People's Party,
09:06said that the Ceuta Institute should prompt Brussels to reconsider its collaboration with Morocco.
09:12Take a look.
09:19This behavior and this event, from our point of view, was possible due to the complicity of Morocco or the
09:25consent of Morocco, one or the other.
09:33And I think it's a very serious situation, because this means that their behavior is entirely unacceptable and it is
09:39a lack of respect to Ceuta, to Spain and to the European Union.
09:45Juan Jesus Pivas there.
09:47What exactly can concretely the EU do now, apart from, of course, engaging in this blame game?
09:52We can help to find the bridges between Spain and Morocco, because the communication, how do you see, doesn't function
10:00very well in this moment.
10:02Do you trust Morocco?
10:03Yes, I trust Morocco, because Morocco, it's really a partner in many issues.
10:08And especially in security, help us a lot to fight the Islamic terrorists.
10:14Also, they give us many information.
10:16This is why we have to talk with Morocco.
10:19Now, first of all, I'm surprised that my colleague says he trusts Morocco, but Spain should stop cooperation with Morocco.
10:26But if they would have stopped cooperation, how could they have brought back people?
10:30I think what we have to do now, today, in the current situation, is to help Ceuta.
10:36And one question could be, what should we do with the people who are still staying there?
10:41Do we have places within Ceuta, and do they need more money, more staff to deal with them?
10:46Or is it having in mind that we are mostly talking about unaccompanied minors, even children, that they should be
10:53brought to European member states, according to the Pact of Migration, as a matter of solidarity,
11:00so that their procedures will be done there, and then to decide if they can stay or have to go
11:06back.
11:06Okay, that is another debate, of course, that's being held right now in Brussels, on whether or not that solidarity
11:11mechanism exists or not.
11:13But now, it is time to move on to the next round.
11:19So now, it is time to get a real flavour of how the European Parliament Chamber really works,
11:24when members of the European Parliament ask direct questions to each other.
11:29So I'd like to start with ladies first, and allow you please to address your first question to Tomáš.
11:33Thank you very much, and I will come back to something I mentioned just a minute ago,
11:37and I would like to ask you if you would agree to support a relocation of unaccompanied minors, children,
11:44to help SOTA and calm down the situation, and thus also using the solidarity mechanism in the European Pact of
11:53Migration.
11:53Yes, I will respond to you directly.
11:56If there are some children and women in SOTA, of course, we can send them directly to Spain and proceed
12:05them,
12:06if they are illegal migrants or they are refugees.
12:09But my response will be that really I have very good evidence about the situation in SOTA and 99%
12:18of people who cross the borders are men who are there illegally and they don't need our solidarity and they
12:27don't need our help.
12:28They need to be proceeded and return back to the Morocco.
12:32But that's not true. There are children remaining in SOTA, and we should not ignore that.
12:37Yes, but it's really very small.
12:41Would the Czech Republic welcome these children?
12:42In the Czech Republic we are prepared to help Spain to solve the situation.
12:46We are prepared to send it there our policemen who will proceed these people and who will control who can
12:52cross the borders.
12:53But not welcome unaccompanied minors?
12:54No, no, no. We are absolutely strict against these quotas, and this quota system helps only extremists to grow up
13:01in the European Union.
13:03Sorry, but we are not talking about extremists.
13:06You cannot say they are all extremists without having any proof.
13:10And now you say you are not willing to enforce the European pact on migration, which needs to be used
13:19since the 12th of June.
13:21So you are going even against European legislation?
13:24No, I am saying that we have three types of help, how we can help the states.
13:30And one of the types of help is sending there.
13:34We can send there our forces and really bring the situation to the normal.
13:39Okay, and now your question, please.
13:41My question is very easy. Do you think that the real Spanish government did his work and they respond on
13:48the situation adequately?
13:52Now, first of all, we have to understand, having in mind that within hours, 80.000 people arrived in Ceuta.
13:59The reaction was very good, and I think it was helpful that the people at the front opened the doors
14:06of the fences because otherwise even more people would have died.
14:10And it was very helpful that immediately the Spanish government took contact to Morocco and that also, again, it feels
14:19like ours, most of the people could be returned.
14:22So, yes, in the current situation they reacted perfectly, and now let's see what together as European Union we can
14:30do with the remaining people.
14:32Follow-up?
14:33Yes, my second question. Do you think that all these people who cross the borders with Ceutas are refugees?
14:49Now, I don't know what you mean with real refugees.
14:53I think the big number of people that arrived within only hours only shows that there must have been a
15:00kind of orchestration, misinformation that was organized to bring the people.
15:06So, I'm quite convinced that not everybody is an asylum seeker and needs international protection.
15:13Many were coming maybe to have another perspective, economic refugees, but that's something that we have to elaborate.
15:21We have to check who needs international protection, who not, and those who don't have a right to stay, of
15:28course, have to be brought back to Morocco if they are Moroccans.
15:31One final last question for Thomas.
15:33Now, I also would like to know how you see the situation.
15:38You fuel the debate about disinformation, saying this has happened because of regularization of migrants.
15:48But this did happen already a long time ago, and other member states also did regularize people.
15:54So, why do you see a connection between regularization of people, and in this case of Spain, they mainly were
16:02coming from South America, with the current situation?
16:07I have to say thank you very much for this question.
16:09I responded many times.
16:11I said there is many disinformation, what we have to fight.
16:15This is why really I was very active in UDS, and I am fully supporting stop for anonymized accounts,
16:29what can really be so strong as normal accounts, and they have the same responsibility as our normal accounts in
16:39the social media.
16:40Because many of these things happen thanks to disinformation from the third actors.
16:47And then about the situation in Spain, the people from the South America came to Spain for long times.
16:57Because the problem of the Spain government is that the Spain government doesn't react and doesn't return these people back
17:04if they don't have visas or they don't have permission to stay.
17:09That is the views they may react because they arrived with the visa, but they started working, and obviously they
17:16are needed in Spain.
17:17That's why they were regularized.
17:19But I'm happy that you say maybe regularization was not the problem, but misinformation, and I hope here we could
17:26work together.
17:27By the way, I don't think the problem is anonymous accounts, because I see more and more people doing ugly
17:34things in the net while using their real name.
17:38Now we're getting a real...
17:39But let's talk about that later.
17:40And now it is time to hear from another voice.
17:46I'd like to bring in the voice now of the U.S. President Donald Trump.
17:50He's been getting involved in this conversation about Celta.
17:53He's spoken out sharply against Spain, declaring that it is, quote,
17:57very sad what is happening in Spain, a country with zero control over its borders.
18:04So why is Donald Trump getting involved in this conversation?
18:07No, I think there is a long history.
18:09Donald Trump has a big interest in weakening European Union.
18:13He's not only doing pressure with tariffs.
18:17He's accusing us whenever we try to force, for example, Big Tech to follow our rules, our legislation.
18:25He's saying we are acting back.
18:27And a weak European Union, a union that is split, is good for the American president,
18:32because Trump wants to make deals individually with each and every member state.
18:36So he has an economic aim in this.
18:39And this is a direct attack, of course, on Pedro Sánchez, the prime minister of Spain.
18:44We know that Donald Trump hates Pedro Sánchez.
18:48He doesn't have a very good relation with him and with current Spanish government.
18:53Also, he every time claims something against Spain.
18:57And I would like to say part of this tweet was true, but I am absolutely sure that really he
19:05politicized much more this debate from his view,
19:10from U.S. view, to show Pedro Sánchez that he is the loser of the situation.
19:16I think if you, as a big leader of a big country, need to call another political leader a loser,
19:26this shows back to yourself.
19:28And I think the real argument is he hates that Sánchez is not trying to charm him to get something,
19:35but he has taken a strong position.
19:37I describe only the situation.
19:38I don't charge Mr. Trump or Mr. Sánchez.
19:41Well, Trump, of course, facing midterm elections in just two months.
19:45But on that point, we can close this conversation on Donald Trump weighing into this debate.
19:49But stay with us here on The Ring as we take a very short break.
20:02Welcome back to The Ring, Eurie News' weekly debate show.
20:05I'm Maeve McMahon.
20:06And for this episode, I'm joined by the MEPs Tom Masatovsky and Birgit Sippel.
20:11And we're taking a closer look at the Southall migration crisis and how it's actually impacted the whole European Union.
20:18We also saw this week Denmark hosting talks with four EU countries on how to speed up the creation of
20:23migrant return hubs outside the European Union.
20:27But according to the EU border agency Frontex, the number of returns actually went up this year.
20:3333,000 people were returned to non-EU countries in the first half of this year.
20:38That's up from 30,000 in the first half of last year, an increase in around 10 percent.
20:43And around two-thirds returned voluntarily, 21,000 compared with 19,000 this year.
20:50So we don't really have a crisis on our hands, right, Tomáš?
20:53Yes, we have to continue with returns.
20:56I think it's very good news that the number is growing.
21:00But really, it's very important to send a very strong signal.
21:05If you are not here legal, you have to go back to your country.
21:11Your reaction to that?
21:12I think, first of all, we have to realize that in the last two years, the number of the overall
21:17arrivals already went down.
21:20Nevertheless, if people have no right to stay, it's okay that we return them to their country of origin.
21:25The return hubs are a totally different question because return hub means we bring people to a place they don't
21:32know where they have never been.
21:34It's expensive, and we make ourselves relying on third countries to do that.
21:41I think that's not a good option.
21:43I think it's really an Australian solution.
21:46They have the same solution, and we are inspired by some countries.
21:52I think that it's not optimal, but what is it optimal?
21:56Are you inspired by the Australian solution?
21:57Yes, of course, I was in many countries to inspire how to proceed the migration, and I think after many
22:05debates here in European Parliament, I'm here 13 years, also, I think that it's really one of the solutions, what
22:14we have to do.
22:15I don't agree, and if I may add one sentence linked to the return hubs, it's not only that I
22:22believe the return hubs are totally ineffective, will not help, but it's also the procedure that was decided to bring
22:30people in the return regulation that we deny very fundamental rights to people and simply bring them back.
22:37So there is some things to do to protect the foundation of European Union, which is rule of law and
22:43fundamental rights.
22:44Just last week, we saw the AFZ do very well in Saxony-Anhalt.
22:49Is that due to migration one of the major issues that they kind of won the elections on?
22:54I think the result in the elections has many grounds.
22:58It's true to one hand, the issue of migration was very popular, was very often mentioned, but at the same
23:04time, especially Saxony-Anhalt is a part of Germany where you hardly find many migrants.
23:10So that's not an issue, but I think this also adds into a feeling that people believe that politicians don't
23:19show interest in their real-life situation, and on the other hand, you have a political party like AFD, who
23:26is very far right-wing, and is purely lying into the faces of people, and unfortunately, they don't realize that.
23:33And have our integration policies failed, Tomáš?
23:37I don't think so. You can see the situation in the Czech Republic. We had 500,000 of refugees from
23:45Ukraine, and they are fully involved in the Czech society.
23:49Also, we have it here, really, half a million of people, who are working, who are living with us. They
23:56have it. The children go to the schools, and they are fully integrated.
24:01But on the other side of the coin, you believe that all those who arrived in Thauta are, quote, extremists,
24:06as you said earlier.
24:06No, I don't say that they are extremists. I said that many of them have a criminal history, and they
24:14really went from Morocco for the purpose to have a better life.
24:19So, just to, if I'm correct, you just said, many of the 80,000 irregular migrants have criminal backgrounds.
24:26We have it there, many of the people, which you can check them.
24:30Is there evidence of that?
24:31No.
24:32Yes.
24:32There was no screening done, no questioning of the people, especially regarding the big majority, who already went back to
24:40Morocco.
24:41No one asked them questions about their background, so you can't say the majority has a criminal background.
24:46Sorry, we have it many instruments. I was also a soldier. I was on the borders. Also, you have it
24:52many instruments, how to screen the people.
24:54When you don't have it data, I need only your face, and I can really check where the people is
25:02from, and what he will do here, and where he was last two days.
25:07Okay. Well, now it is time to move on to our fifth and our final round here on The Ring.
25:17As always, now for the fifth round, we like to do something a little bit different.
25:20I'm going to ask our guest, Emi Pisa, a set of questions, and you are allowed reply with either yes
25:25or no.
25:26Oh, God.
25:27Is that the oval?
25:28Okay.
25:29You can give it a shot.
25:30First question. Did Spain lose control of its external EU border? Yes or no?
25:34Yes.
25:35No.
25:35Yes or no? No.
25:37Could Pedro Sánchez resign because of this crisis? Yes or no?
25:40Yes.
25:40No.
25:41No.
25:42Did Brussels leave Spain alone? Yes or no?
25:46Member states left Spain alone.
25:48Did Brussels?
25:49No.
25:50Did member states leave Spain alone? Yes or no?
25:52No. We helped them with all the information and all the support that they asked.
25:57Did Morocco use migration for political leverage? Yes or no?
26:01Yet no evidence for that.
26:03Yes or no?
26:03We have to investigate them.
26:05Is another FAUTE incident inevitable? Yes or no?
26:10Without solidarity of European Union, it can happen again?
26:14No.
26:16Was Italy right to suspend Schengen temporarily? Yes or no? It was ridiculous.
26:22Yes, I agree. I think it was a very good idea.
26:26So you disagree?
26:27I disagree because really in the situation when systematically really there is no dialogue
26:35between the Spanish government and other member states about illegal migration and about the situation
26:41what they are now doing.
26:43But sorry, it's ridiculous.
26:44Ceuta is not even on the European continent.
26:48They are not even part of the Schengen area.
26:51So none of those people ever arrived in Spain.
26:54So why are you willing to control any kind of travel reaction?
26:58No. It's only the reaction to say that Spain has to take control above the borders.
27:04That's not a reason to start for the controls.
27:06That's against the legislation.
27:08Is Schengen in serious trouble? Yes or no?
27:11If member states act wrongly, then yes.
27:16Yes.
27:16Yes.
27:17Okay.
27:18And did you agree with anything you've heard from Tomáš today?
27:21Not much.
27:22And did you agree with anything?
27:24Yes, I think two, three percentage of the words that I heard.
27:28That's the view from the MEPs.
27:29We would love to hear your opinion on this debate.
27:32Please reach out, thering at euronews.com.
27:35That is our email address.
27:37In the meantime, thank you so much to you both for joining us.
27:39Thank you so much for watching.
27:40Take care and stay with us here on Euronews.
27:43Thank you.
27:52Don't be surprised.
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