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União Europeia: eurodeputados debatem prioridades para 2027 no “The Ring”
Nesta edição do programa de debate, os eurodeputados Benedetta Scuderi (Verdes), de Itália, e Markus Ferber (PPE), da Alemanha enfrentam‑se na questão central da UE
LEIA MAIS : http://pt.euronews.com/2026/11/12/uniao-europeia-eurodeputados-debatem-prioridades-para-2027-no-the-ring
Subscreva, euronews está disponível em 12 línguas.
Nesta edição do programa de debate, os eurodeputados Benedetta Scuderi (Verdes), de Itália, e Markus Ferber (PPE), da Alemanha enfrentam‑se na questão central da UE
LEIA MAIS : http://pt.euronews.com/2026/11/12/uniao-europeia-eurodeputados-debatem-prioridades-para-2027-no-the-ring
Subscreva, euronews está disponível em 12 línguas.
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NotíciasTranscrição
00:08Olá e bem-vindos ao The Ring,
00:10Euronews's weekly debate show
00:12broadcasting from the European Parliament in Brussels.
00:15I'm Stefan Grobe.
00:16On The Ring, debaters go face-to-face
00:19on some of the biggest political issues facing the EU.
00:23Today, we want to talk about the right priorities for Europe's future.
00:27Politically speaking, what should the EU focus on delivering
00:31before the end of its mandate?
00:34Luis Albertos has more.
00:39Europe wants to be greener, richer, safer and more competitive.
00:43But can it realistically deliver on all these ambitions at once?
00:48The challenges are enormous.
00:50An increasingly volatile geopolitical situation
00:52is forcing Europe to rethink its security and economic model.
00:55At the same time, European industries are struggling
00:58with high energy costs, excessive regulation
01:01and fierce global competition.
01:04Is it time for Brussels to put competitiveness first,
01:07even if that means slowing down the green transition?
01:10But there's another dilemma.
01:11Money.
01:12Should Europe spend less, cut red tape and rain in its ambitions?
01:16Or should Europe have a bigger EU budget,
01:18more common investment and stronger social and climate policies?
01:22And does it have the political will to shape its own future?
01:29A lot to unpack here for our contenders.
01:33And here they are.
01:35Benedetta Scuderi, an Italian MEP from the Greens.
01:38She's a member of the Committees on Industry, Research and Energy
01:41and Women's Rights and Gender Equality.
01:43She says,
01:44One of the priorities is definitely to achieve European autonomy.
01:48Not in terms of military spending,
01:49but in our energy, digital and industrial clean tech capacity.
01:53The goal is to phase out fossil fuels
01:55and re-industrialize our regions in a socially just way.
01:58Thinking of our people and territories.
02:01And let's make polluters pay for this.
02:04Markus Ferber, a German MEP from the Central Right European People's Party.
02:08A long-serving member of the European Parliament,
02:10he's the Vice-Chair of the Subcommittee on Tax Matters
02:13and a member of the Committee on Economic and Monetary Affairs.
02:16He says,
02:17The EU must prioritize competitiveness,
02:19economic growth and simplification,
02:22not deregulation.
02:23We need to achieve the same ambitious goals
02:25with less bureaucracy and paperwork,
02:27because only a strong economy
02:29can finance our climate ambitions,
02:32security and social model.
02:35So let me welcome to the ring
02:37Benedetta Scuderi and Markus Ferber.
02:39Great to have you here.
02:41Good to see you.
02:42Speaking of legislative priorities for 2027,
02:46is Brussels addressing the issues
02:48that really matter to European citizens,
02:51or is it still setting its agenda
02:53from inside the Brussels bubble?
02:56What is the strategy, if there is any?
02:59The strategy is, in comparison to the last period
03:01where the Green Deal was the headline for five years,
03:04competitiveness is the headline of this five years period.
03:07And that means we have to get rid of bureaucracy.
03:10We have to take care on competitiveness of our industry
03:13and our SMEs as well.
03:16And if we have a growth on GDP,
03:18we have a growth on the European budget as well.
03:21That is the easiest thing to understand.
03:23And therefore, growth and competitiveness is number one.
03:26Of course, to have sustainable growth,
03:28to have social economy-driven growth.
03:32But growth is the key answer.
03:34Benedetta, are you subscribing to this?
03:37Growth doesn't happen because we want it to happen.
03:40And Europe is a proof of it.
03:42With all the political powers that are investing in today's capacities,
03:46and Europe that is not investing in its capacities,
03:48is not investing in energy transition enough,
03:50is not investing in adaptation enough,
03:52is not investing in digital transition,
03:54is not investing in a social justice,
03:56because the investments we do are well below what we need,
04:01then we're never going to thrive as a continent,
04:04as a European Union, as a political union.
04:06If we are not a political union, first thing,
04:09then we're never going to thrive.
04:10So, Markus, is Europe investing in an old model
04:14rather than into digital economy, cyber technology?
04:18I think we have firstly to discuss who has to invest.
04:21If everything should be invested by the public,
04:23sorry, we will never be able to deliver.
04:26What we have to create is an environment
04:27where private investment takes place.
04:29And what we see at the moment is that the big investors of the world
04:33are moving away from Europe, from Germany as well,
04:37but from Europe total as well.
04:39And so we have a lack of in foreign investments,
04:41but we have a lot of investments from European companies
04:44outside the European Union.
04:46And that is our main threat we are confronted with.
04:48And if you ask industry, why is that happening?
04:51Number one, high energy prices.
04:53Number two, high bureaucracy costs.
04:56Number three, the level of skills of the employees.
05:01And I think that are things we have to address.
05:03The point is that my country argument is his argument
05:07because he said two of the three things
05:09that are stopping our companies to be able to invest in Europe
05:11are energy, and we need to invest in energy.
05:14Energy prices are super high
05:15because we are extremely dependent on gas and gas imports,
05:19and that's what is making our energy prices high.
05:22And that's what we need to invest.
05:24That's what we're saying.
05:24And I'm sorry, on these investments,
05:26they need to come from public.
05:28They need to be publicly driven.
05:30They cannot be only public,
05:31but they need to be publicly driven
05:33because we know where the market is going.
05:34They don't care about energy prices.
05:37Like the big fossil companies,
05:39they're making huge profits from our crisis.
05:42They're not going to invest in what will make us better.
05:45And we need to drive that.
05:46And the second thing, skills.
05:48Who can make the skills?
05:49We have the skills, the union of skills,
05:52and we need to implement that,
05:54invest in that, and make it right.
05:56So that means that we really need to be sure
05:59that the skills that we need
06:01are everywhere in every angle of Europe.
06:04So investing in skills, that sounds good to me, Marcus.
06:08Yeah, but the problem is who is responsible for what.
06:10And we cannot say every problem in Europe
06:11has to be addressed by the European Union.
06:14We need member states who really engage
06:15because education, social welfare,
06:18all this stuff is national competence,
06:20and according to the treaties, it's their obligation.
06:22On the other hand of energy, sorry,
06:24you come from a member state
06:25who is a net consumer on energy.
06:28Italy was never able even to deliver
06:30their own energy for its own industry.
06:32I come from a member state who could in the past,
06:35but now we are net consumers as well.
06:37If we have only net consumers in the European Union,
06:39we have a problem.
06:41So where are the possibilities
06:42to produce energy for the industry?
06:45And that will not be done
06:46only by photovoltaics and windmills.
06:48Sorry, we need other sources as well.
06:50And that is what we are not equipping for the moment
06:52because we have a high bureaucratic burden
06:54for this investment, even for a windmill.
06:57In Germany, it takes one year
06:58only to get the allowance to construct a windmill.
07:01Sorry, we are far away from achieving our goals.
07:04Okay, Benedetta, your answer.
07:06Absolutely, that we need to fasten up
07:07our permitting procedures.
07:09Absolutely, our bureaucracy.
07:10But why are you against the omnibuses then?
07:13Because they are not simplification,
07:15they are deregulation.
07:15Omnibus, by the way, is not about cars.
07:20So if you think that to make a windmill,
07:22we need to take away the due diligence
07:24of multinational companies,
07:26I don't think so.
07:27I don't think due diligence
07:28of multinational companies,
07:29that's where Omnibus that you bought it for...
07:31That's not the problem.
07:31Well, that's what you made into Omnibus.
07:34Well, as you made it into Omnibus,
07:35deeper restoration,
07:36you made it into an Omnibus.
07:37I never heard an Omnibus
07:38about fastening up permitting of windmills,
07:41in my opinion.
07:42that there was not.
07:43Now we have a permitting fasting
07:45that is coming in the next commission program,
07:49and I'm really willing to work on it,
07:50and us Greens,
07:51we're really willing to work on it.
07:52We had the red that was about
07:54fastening up permitting,
07:55and the Greens were in it.
07:57But the point is,
07:57fastening up permitting
07:58doesn't need to be for data centers,
08:01doesn't need to be for big companies.
08:02It needs to be for what we actually need,
08:06like windmills,
08:07like solar energy,
08:09and so on.
08:09So we don't need data centers?
08:12You will not create growth
08:14without data centers.
08:16How do you think we can achieve growth?
08:17Look to the United States.
08:19The only driving force is AI.
08:22AI needs data centers.
08:23Let me stop here.
08:24Let me stop here.
08:25We don't have competitiveness.
08:26I see.
08:27We're just getting warmed up here,
08:28which is really good.
08:30But now it's time for gloves off.
08:36Now we want viewers to get a real flavor
08:39of the European Parliament.
08:40We've already got this a little bit,
08:42where members ask each other questions.
08:45And Benedetta,
08:46I'd like you to ask the first question to Marcus.
08:49So as we were getting into it,
08:51we have a huge need
08:53to achieve our digital autonomy
08:55and our digital strategy.
08:57So I'm just wondering,
08:59but we cannot do this
09:00if we are selling out our data,
09:03our resources to big American big tech.
09:06So I'm wondering if the EPP is fine
09:09to have a European Digital Strategy
09:12and Implementation Act,
09:13but most of all to have regulation
09:15and a clear authorization process
09:18for data centers
09:19in order to not give our data
09:21and our energy and our water
09:23to big American big techs
09:25that will not do anything
09:27about digital autonomy.
09:29So do you want to have
09:30a strong regulation for data centers
09:32and a strong strategy
09:33for digital autonomy
09:35for having European data centers?
09:37I think that is not the right question.
09:39The question is even
09:40for European investors,
09:42and I have a few of them in Germany
09:43who really want to invest
09:45in data centers to safeguard,
09:46for example,
09:47the data protection regulation,
09:49which means data from Europe
09:51should stay in Europe
09:52and not misused by NSA
09:54in the United States.
09:56But they have a problem
09:57to get allowance,
09:59to have the energy,
10:00to get the allowance for the water.
10:02Sorry, if you make a strategy
10:04only protecting for other investments,
10:06but not taking care
10:07that the investments are taking place.
10:09Sorry, that is what you're doing
10:10because you don't grant the energy.
10:13We have only four places in Germany
10:15where you have enough energy
10:16to run a data center.
10:18Sorry, that is the challenge.
10:19It's not the question,
10:20who is investing?
10:21No one can invest
10:22because the infrastructure
10:23is not appropriate.
10:24And you are defending
10:26that we can invest
10:27in the infrastructure,
10:28which is a public demand,
10:29but then private investors
10:31will come even
10:32from inside the European Union.
10:33That is the wrong approach
10:34to what you're doing.
10:35Sorry, but then
10:35if we see 90%
10:37of the data center
10:38that are asking
10:39and are doing
10:40the data center
10:41is American companies.
10:43It's not European companies.
10:44If you see an island
10:45where 20% of electricity
10:46is for American companies,
10:4820% of electricity
10:49is for data center.
10:50And most of it
10:51is for American companies.
10:52Look at Italy.
10:53Sorry, get out of Germany.
10:54If this is the situation
10:54in Germany,
10:55look at Europe.
10:56Look at Finland.
10:57But Ireland is a very special problem
10:59which we have for years.
11:00So if you don't have
11:01regulation against this,
11:02then you're not going to have...
11:03Sorry, if you know
11:03everything better,
11:04we can stop the discussion.
11:05It's now my turn
11:06to ask a question to you.
11:07On the contrary,
11:09Marcus, I want to ask
11:11Benedetta a question now.
11:12Yeah, that's what
11:13I wanted to do,
11:13but thanks that I have a chance.
11:16Your group,
11:16the Green Group,
11:17calls the program
11:18for next year,
11:19and I quote,
11:20an attack against nature.
11:22Are you really sure
11:23that you are reading correctly
11:25what the commission
11:25has proposed?
11:26Are we really sure
11:27if we are reviewing
11:29any regulation
11:30after five years?
11:31And we have,
11:32for example,
11:32the habitat regulation
11:33which is older
11:34than 35 years,
11:36and a lot of things
11:37have changed
11:37that we have a look on that
11:39and that is not
11:39a attack against nature,
11:41but really adjusting
11:43to a new situation?
11:45I think that adjusting
11:47to a new situation
11:48would be extremely great
11:49if you look at
11:49what is the situation,
11:51but it looks like
11:52the EPP is not looking
11:53at the climate collapse.
11:54You are not able
11:55to do anything
11:56about the climate.
11:57What is your proof
11:58for this race?
11:59That is unacceptable.
12:01That is unacceptable,
12:02really.
12:02Why is EPP...
12:03Because all the omnibus,
12:04as you really fried
12:05for them,
12:05are going against
12:07anything that would be
12:08a climate collapse.
12:09Which omnibus?
12:10Tell me,
12:11which omnibus?
12:11I told you,
12:12deforestation.
12:13The omnibus...
12:14The omnibus on...
12:15Deforestation is not
12:15in an omnibus.
12:16Sorry,
12:17don't tell stories
12:18which are not the truth.
12:19You are talking...
12:20In which omnibus
12:21is deforestation?
12:22Tell me.
12:22You are taking away...
12:23It's not right
12:24what you are saying.
12:25Your diligence,
12:26then.
12:27It was one of the
12:28strongest things
12:28that we had for the
12:29climate...
12:30Thunder Lion said
12:30in 2019...
12:31Sir, he said
12:32that I'm not making
12:33respect, but then...
12:33The rise to the moon.
12:34But the rise to the moon
12:35did not work with
12:36bureaucracy,
12:37it worked with technology,
12:39and that is what...
12:39We don't need
12:40the rise to the moon,
12:41we need to protect
12:41these planets.
12:42That's your order.
12:43We need to protect
12:43this planet,
12:44and we don't need
12:45the rise to the moon.
12:45The moon is unlivable,
12:46and you want to make
12:47this planet unlivable
12:48as much as the moon,
12:49I think.
12:50That's what you want
12:51to do.
12:52All right.
12:52All right.
12:53If you like the moon,
12:53I don't want to make
12:54the...
12:55What was...
12:55Benedetta,
12:55on the line,
12:56as I said,
12:56do you support it
12:57this part in 2019?
12:58Just a second.
12:59I really regret that.
13:00Benedetta,
13:01do you have another...
13:02Do you have another...
13:02Sorry.
13:03Do you have another
13:04question for Marcus?
13:06Short one.
13:06For sure.
13:07Good one.
13:08So, we have need
13:09for socially just Europe,
13:12and we have a huge amount
13:14of our population
13:15that is not able
13:15to sustain a living.
13:17It's not able
13:17to find a house.
13:18That regards young people,
13:20people of my age,
13:21that regards older people,
13:22that regards workers.
13:23Workers in cities
13:25are not able to go
13:26and work in the city anymore
13:27because they cannot afford
13:29an apartment.
13:30They cannot even afford
13:31a room.
13:32So, I'm wondering
13:33if the EPP is able
13:34to look at this problem,
13:35not saying that we need
13:37to build more
13:38because many of our cities
13:39have enough empty houses,
13:41so probably it's not
13:41the number of houses,
13:43but to say that we need
13:44to regulate Airbnb
13:46and to say that we need
13:48to have more public houses
13:50that are actually public
13:52and for actually low-income people
13:55and solutions
13:55for middle-income people.
13:57Are you able to say that
13:58or we just need
13:59to build deregulation?
14:00I'm a little bit surprised
14:01that you have taken EPP
14:02as we had the rapporteur
14:03on the housing...
14:04Yeah, and I would agree
14:05that.
14:06I would be very happy
14:07even to say one sentence
14:10without being disturbed.
14:11That's what you did
14:12with me, by the way.
14:14Okay.
14:14We had the rapporteur
14:15from EPP
14:16and he drafted a report
14:19which was adopted
14:19by a huge majority
14:20by the European Parliament
14:22and one of the key quotes
14:23of this report is
14:24that we need
14:26to build more houses.
14:27Sorry, because we have
14:29a lack of that.
14:30We asked,
14:31and that part was not
14:32supported by the Greens,
14:33that we need less bureaucracy
14:36to build houses.
14:37Sorry, that's the same problem.
14:39In Germany,
14:39it takes eight years
14:40when a city decides
14:42to make an area
14:44for construction
14:44till you have the right
14:46to construct something on that.
14:47The rest of the world
14:48does it in one to two years,
14:50even protecting environment
14:51and taking care
14:52of standards.
14:53Sorry, that is our problem.
14:55And that is the problem
14:55of the Green Group
14:56because you are refusing
14:58that we have an omnibus
14:59for the housing area.
15:01You will not be able
15:02to finance all this stuff
15:03by public investments.
15:04We need private investments
15:05for that.
15:06And therefore,
15:07we have to make it cheaper
15:08and therefore,
15:08Europe can play a role.
15:10Okay.
15:10Marcus, one last question
15:11to Benedetta.
15:12One last question
15:13to Benedetta in this round.
15:14Yeah.
15:15So if we speak about autonomy
15:16and stuff like that,
15:18I think we have to speak
15:19about trade agreements
15:20as well.
15:20How Europe can create
15:23a rule-based world
15:24with trade partners
15:25around the globe.
15:26And I was wondering
15:27why, for example,
15:28the Green Group
15:29was voting against
15:30the Mercosur Agreement
15:31with the far right,
15:33by the way,
15:34and brought it
15:35to the Court of Justice
15:36without ratifying it.
15:38Sorry.
15:38I was surprised.
15:39That is the wrong answer
15:40for the demands we need
15:41and the Greens are asking for.
15:43Okay.
15:44It's funny that
15:44it's coming from an EPP member
15:46that we voted
15:48with the far right.
15:49No, you voted
15:49more with the far right
15:50than us.
15:50Sorry.
15:51Let her answer.
15:53Let her answer.
15:53But they actually
15:56made agreement
15:57with the far right
15:59to vote about migration.
16:01They brought it together.
16:02And now they're claiming
16:03I was talking about
16:04trade agreement.
16:05And now they're claiming
16:06to us that we voted
16:08in our long-standing position
16:11that was against
16:12this agreement
16:13of Mercosur
16:14because it's first
16:16it's damaging our people.
16:1725 years' negotiation
16:19is cast.
16:19Let her just develop this.
16:21Yeah, and we were...
16:21On which planet
16:22are you living?
16:23Let her just develop this.
16:24Please.
16:25Sorry.
16:25Sorry.
16:26You calm down
16:26because you didn't even hear
16:27what I said
16:28and you're saying
16:29which planet are you living?
16:30So what's your problem?
16:31Because if you hear what I say...
16:32We negotiated 25 years
16:33and you say it was fast.
16:35If you hear what I say...
16:35Come on.
16:36If you hear what I say
16:38and then you say
16:39that I live in another planet
16:40then you can say it.
16:41But you don't even hear
16:42what I say
16:43then you are in another planet
16:44because you don't know
16:45what's my argument.
16:46You said we negotiated fast.
16:4725 years is fast for you.
16:50Good luck.
16:50You see, it's just 25 years, 25 years.
16:52We were against all along
16:53because you make this deal
16:55just for profit.
16:56You don't make this deal
16:56for people here.
16:58You don't make this deal
16:59for people in the Amazon.
17:00You don't make this deal
17:01for our farmers.
17:02That will be...
17:03And they already are.
17:04And they're already asking
17:05the review of the deal
17:07because they are damaged
17:08by unfair competition.
17:10You didn't make a deal
17:11with clear rules
17:12about what can come in
17:14because now meat that is made
17:16with deforestation
17:17can come in
17:19which is damaging our farmers.
17:20So you are against
17:21free trade in total.
17:22And you didn't make this deal
17:22for the people in the Amazon.
17:23So you are against
17:24free trade in total.
17:25Because this is going to
17:25damage the Amazon.
17:27So that's my argument.
17:28So who is in another planet?
17:29It's you.
17:30I'm not against
17:30fair trade.
17:31Yes, you are.
17:32I'm against trade
17:32without fairness.
17:34I'm against trade
17:34without fairness.
17:35We've got to take a break here.
17:36There is a fair trade agreement.
17:38Sorry.
17:38We've got to take a break here.
17:39Thank you very much so far
17:41to our guest.
17:42That's it for now
17:43on The Ring.
17:45Stay with us here
17:46on Euronews.
17:56Welcome to The Ring,
17:57Euronews' weekly debate show.
17:59I'm Stefan Grobet.
18:00I'm joined by two members
18:01of the European Parliament,
18:03Benedetta Scuderi
18:04from the Italian Greece
18:05and Markus Fairberg,
18:06Christian Democrat
18:07from Germany.
18:08Today we debated
18:10the political
18:10and legislative priorities
18:12of the EU
18:13and we discussed
18:14whether Brussels
18:15is addressing
18:15the issues that matter
18:17to people,
18:18to European citizens.
18:20Now,
18:20what is important
18:21to Europeans?
18:22What are their worries?
18:23What are their demands?
18:25And here we have
18:25two recent
18:26Eurobarometer surveys
18:28that give a pretty good picture
18:29of what people are thinking.
18:31When asked,
18:32what should the European Parliament
18:34prioritize?
18:35Inflation,
18:36rising prices
18:38and cost of living,
18:4047% say that
18:41almost half
18:42of the population.
18:43When it comes
18:44to the economy
18:45and job creation,
18:46it's 35%
18:47and a little less,
18:4834% say
18:49it's EU defense
18:51and security.
18:52And when asked
18:53how the EU's budget
18:54should be allocated,
18:56employment,
18:57social affairs
18:57and public health
18:59comes in on top,
19:0141%,
19:02a little less,
19:0338% say security
19:05and defense
19:06and finally,
19:0733% say
19:08the money
19:09should be allocated
19:10for education,
19:11training,
19:12youth,
19:12culture
19:13and media
19:14go figure.
19:16So,
19:16the issue
19:18of inflation
19:18and increased
19:19cost of living
19:20is on top
19:20of the list,
19:22not really surprising.
19:24Is the EU,
19:25are European governments
19:26doing enough
19:27to bring prices down
19:28and protect households
19:29and businesses?
19:30Marcus,
19:31I'm going to start with you.
19:32Yeah,
19:32the fight on the inflation
19:33is a responsibility
19:34of the European Central Bank,
19:36to be very honest.
19:37It's not something
19:38we can do as politicians.
19:40It has to be,
19:41price stability
19:41is a mandate
19:42of the European Central Bank
19:43and in my capacity
19:45as a member
19:46of the Econ Committee,
19:47we are in direct exchange
19:48with Christine Lagarde
19:49and I hope,
19:50as she has resigned,
19:51we will get someone
19:52who will really fight
19:53against inflation
19:54in the years to come
19:55because that will be
19:56a key issue
19:57and therefore,
19:58we have to do,
19:59as I said before,
20:00some investments
20:01to reduce the costs
20:03as we have high demands
20:04and low supply
20:04that is increasing
20:05costs and prices.
20:07Right.
20:07Benelida,
20:08we've been hearing
20:09these complaints
20:10about high cost of living
20:12for quite some time now
20:14but yet nothing has changed,
20:17nothing tangible
20:18has changed
20:19for European households,
20:20families and businesses.
20:22What's wrong here?
20:23I really think
20:24Europe should do
20:24a step up
20:26and should take
20:26a big part into this
20:28because I'm a federalist
20:30and I believe
20:30that Europe has to have
20:32a big role
20:32into the well-being
20:33of people
20:34and that's why
20:34we are asking
20:35for more social investments,
20:37that's why we are asking
20:38for investments in housing,
20:39that's why we are asking
20:40for investments in energy
20:41because what is driving
20:43up the prices
20:44is inflation,
20:45it can be the central bank
20:46but what is driving
20:47up inflation
20:48is the energy prices
20:49a lot,
20:50is the what's driving
20:52up the prices
20:53is the rent prices
20:54and so on and so forth.
20:55If we don't do investments
20:56into these things
20:57then nothing's going
20:58to change for people
20:59and I really think
21:00that the European Parliament
21:02should step up
21:04and should be clear
21:05in what is our direction
21:06and that's why
21:07I was saying
21:07at the beginning
21:08this work program
21:09is not clearly
21:10going into this direction
21:11and the budget
21:12of the European Union
21:12is not really going
21:13into this direction.
21:14The moment of crisis
21:16we're living now,
21:18we are even thinking
21:19about decreasing
21:19the current budget
21:20that is like pennies
21:23at the moment,
21:24I think we need
21:25to step up.
21:25You mentioned
21:26the EU budget,
21:27we have these heated talks
21:29going on for quite some time,
21:31probably until the end
21:32of the year.
21:32What should the EU budget
21:34focus on, Marcus?
21:36What are the topics?
21:38Of course,
21:38it's not only one.
21:39If you would have here
21:40colleagues from the
21:41Agri-Comity,
21:42from Agriculture Policy,
21:43they would say,
21:44yes,
21:44it's very important
21:45to be resilient
21:46in the food supply
21:48and in the production.
21:49If you have people
21:50from Pura Region,
21:51they would say
21:51regional policy is key,
21:53cohesion policy is key.
21:54If you ask me,
21:56coming from Germany,
21:57I say research
21:58and innovation is key.
22:00So we have to prioritize,
22:02of course,
22:03if we have limited resources.
22:04And sorry,
22:05the public budgets
22:06have limited resources
22:07on national level
22:08and on European level.
22:10But to be very clear,
22:11as we have for the moment
22:121.1% of the GDP,
22:15that's our budget.
22:16If we increase the GDP,
22:18we have more resources.
22:19So I think growth,
22:21competitiveness
22:22is a key element
22:23even to have
22:23more resources available
22:25to fulfill
22:25all the obligations
22:26people are asking
22:27from the European Union.
22:28Okay.
22:29What about security
22:29and defense?
22:30How do we reconcile this
22:32with limited resources,
22:34as Agri said,
22:34and now we need
22:35to spend more
22:36on defense?
22:37I first want to say
22:38that I'm a bit tired
22:39of this fairy tale
22:40of the market
22:41and the growth
22:42and everything's
22:43going to be fine.
22:44And in the meantime,
22:44people are going
22:45to be dead
22:45and starving.
22:47This is what's happening.
22:48If we wait for this growth
22:50that will come eventually
22:51and will save us all
22:52because the GDP
22:53is going to increase
22:54and then we're going
22:54to increase the budget,
22:55then our people
22:56are going to starve.
22:57They don't want this.
23:00They can't keep up anymore.
23:03So the point is,
23:04we have resources.
23:05It's not true
23:06that we don't have resources
23:07because look at the money.
23:08Money is very much going
23:11to very big pockets
23:13of very small amount of people.
23:15So the point is,
23:17are we strong enough
23:18to take resources
23:19from who has the resources?
23:21Because billionaires,
23:22because huge profits
23:23are increasing
23:24and increasing
23:25and increasing.
23:26These equalities
23:26are increasing
23:27and increasing.
23:27What we are telling
23:28to the people
23:29that now cannot afford
23:30to pay for the shop,
23:33for the grocery,
23:34we are telling them,
23:35sorry,
23:35let's make them richer,
23:37the 1% of the population,
23:38the 0.1% of the population
23:40richer,
23:40so maybe at some point
23:42with the tickle down
23:43we all be richer.
23:44We say this for a century now.
23:46And what is happening
23:47is that inequalities
23:48are just increasing
23:50and people are worse.
23:51So maybe now
23:52it's time to say
23:53to the people,
23:54to 99%,
23:55sorry,
23:56we were wrong,
23:57we want to take the money
23:58from the smallest part
24:00of the population
24:00that has the billions,
24:01from the huge profits
24:03of who is actually
24:04damaging our planet.
24:05And in that situation
24:05that you just described,
24:07sorry,
24:08in that situation
24:09that you just described,
24:10it makes it even tougher
24:12to increase defense
24:14and military spending.
24:16How do we reconcile this?
24:17I think we need to look
24:19at security
24:19as a broader thing
24:21when we talk
24:22about security.
24:23And one of the problems
24:25of the politics today
24:26in Europe
24:27and in many of our member states
24:28is that we look at security
24:30only as weapons.
24:31And if we think
24:32that we're going to be
24:33more secure
24:33just buying more weapons,
24:35then this is not the answer.
24:38We need to look at security
24:39as resilience.
24:40We need to look at security
24:41as digital cyber security.
24:43And I think these days
24:44are really telling us this.
24:45We need to look at security
24:46also as security
24:47from climate events.
24:49Like security
24:50is really a broader concept.
24:52And we need to increase
24:53our budget
24:54to be able to spend money
24:57on security
24:57as a broader content
24:58and on all the other priorities
25:00because they are also
25:01extremely important.
25:02And the survey showed it.
25:03We cannot take from one
25:05to give to the other
25:05because that will not work.
25:07Okay.
25:08Marcus, I'll give you the floor
25:09once we've reached
25:10the next round
25:11as it's time to move on
25:13and go to round number four.
25:20And this brings us
25:21to our quote of the week.
25:23Today from the EU Commissioner
25:24for Economy and Productivity,
25:26Valdis Dombrovskis.
25:28He said recently,
25:29and I quote,
25:30in 2027,
25:31we will go further
25:32in tackling unnecessary burdens
25:34and addressing implementation gaps
25:36in areas such as transport,
25:39housing and digital
25:40and accelerating permitting.
25:42Our goal is clear,
25:43less red tape
25:44and complexity for citizens
25:46and more scope
25:47for businesses
25:47to invest,
25:48innovate and grow.
25:51Marcus,
25:52you've heard the commissioner.
25:54Do you agree with him?
25:56Yes,
25:56it's the right agenda
25:57because as we have a lack of investment,
26:00as we have a lack of productivity growth,
26:03we have to invest in the new technologies
26:05and of course,
26:06we have to invest in decarbonization.
26:08That's why energy is key.
26:10If you want to decarbonize
26:12by electrification
26:14and you want to have investments in AI,
26:16for example,
26:17you need more electricity
26:19than in the past
26:20and we don't have that at the moment
26:21and we have to do it sustainable.
26:23that therefore huge investments are needed
26:25and possibilities to do the investments
26:29and that's why bureaucratic burden
26:30are one of the key elements
26:32we are confronted with
26:33on the European level
26:34and there we have to find a solution
26:36but as well on member states,
26:37on regional level
26:38because at the end
26:40for the entrepreneurs,
26:42for the local authorities,
26:43it's a huge bulk of bureaucracy burdens
26:46coming from each political level
26:48so we have to deliver
26:49but member states and regions as well.
26:51Where do you draw the line
26:52between deregulation
26:55and sort of less spending,
26:58less benefits for people like families,
27:03people who benefit from the current?
27:06Deregulation, maybe the wrong word,
27:07is simplification.
27:08Make it easier,
27:09make it simpler,
27:11not make it less burdensome
27:14in the sense of misusing nature,
27:15misusing water,
27:18misusing animal protection,
27:19biodiversity or whatever,
27:22even social systems.
27:23So simplification is the right answer.
27:26But that is one of the key problems.
27:27Inside the commission,
27:29you have silos
27:30of different general directories
27:32who do not know
27:32what the other is doing
27:33but at the end,
27:34all this stuff comes to the people,
27:36comes to the local authorities,
27:38comes to the entrepreneurs
27:39and to get rid of these things
27:42to achieve the main goals
27:44but to simplify it.
27:46I think that is a key element.
27:47And the other thing is,
27:48of course,
27:48to create an environment
27:49where foreign investments
27:51will take place
27:52in the European Union as well.
27:53There we have really a lack
27:55and that is what we have to address.
27:57Okay.
27:57Bernetta,
27:58simplification,
27:59as Marco said,
28:00is that a concept
28:01you could adhere to?
28:03Absolutely.
28:03When simplification
28:04is simplification,
28:05we are all in as Greens.
28:08We want to be faster
28:09on the transition
28:10but we need to be knowing
28:12where we are going
28:13so not do a step backwards
28:14into our goals
28:16because it is important
28:17also for investments
28:18not just to simplify
28:20but to give a clear direction
28:22which now is a bit unsure
28:23in this European Union.
28:25We need to simplify
28:26the bureaucratic processes
28:28and we need to simplify
28:29more than simplify
28:31to make efficient
28:31and more united
28:33what the commission is doing
28:35and what the territories are doing.
28:36What I am wondering though
28:38is that why EPP is not doing this?
28:40Because you are running
28:41the European Commission.
28:42I wasn't using EPP.
28:43You are running the parliament.
28:45I mean,
28:45the EPP has had the president
28:47of the commission
28:48for the last seven years and a half now
28:50and in this parliament
28:51you are the biggest group.
28:53So why is this not happening?
28:55Why the commission has not reformed?
28:56Because actually the commission now
28:58is even more divided into silos.
29:00It is even more complicated.
29:01Why are you not talking
29:02more with the territories?
29:03Why there is no more efficiencies?
29:05Like I am wondering
29:06why this is not happening already
29:08because we are all agreeing.
29:09The problem is that sometimes
29:11behind the simplification
29:13there is no difference
29:14in the bureaucratic process
29:16but there is a lot of difference
29:17in the rules.
29:18And who is paying the price
29:19is local communities and nature.
29:21And this is the problem.
29:22Sorry, it's not the EPP problem.
29:24To be very clear,
29:25it's a problem of the institution itself.
29:27Even in the parliament,
29:28you are sitting in the E3,
29:29I'm sitting in the Econ.
29:31When have we negotiated something?
29:32Although we are dealing with
29:33roundabout the same things.
29:36We do macroeconomic tools,
29:37you do industry policy.
29:39But there is a lot of interlinkage.
29:41We never discuss it.
29:42You make your legislation,
29:43the competitiveness fund.
29:44For example,
29:45Econ is fully out.
29:46Although there are a lot of things.
29:48State aid rules,
29:48we are responsible.
29:50Competition rules,
29:50we are responsible.
29:51Tax rules,
29:52we are responsible.
29:53You don't take care.
29:54So don't blame EPP.
29:56It's a system problem
29:57which you are not addressing
29:58because you are misusing the system.
30:00That is what the Greens are doing.
30:02You live with this system
30:03because you can develop things
30:05which are really harming us.
30:07Do no significant harm
30:08is harming us,
30:09is harming investments.
30:10You invented it
30:12and brought it to all committees
30:13and to all realities.
30:14The question is,
30:15how do we get out of this?
30:17It's the Greens who disturb it.
30:18You both describe the same problem
30:20maybe from a different perspective.
30:22So my question is,
30:22how do we get out of this?
30:24How do we get out of a system
30:25that you describe as
30:26way too cumbersome,
30:27too bureaucratic
30:28and to the detriment of the people?
30:33I think Europe should focus
30:34on the main issues
30:35which really are European issues
30:37and not a Christmas tree
30:40with promises to everyone
30:41and everything
30:42because we have local authorities
30:44with their responsibility.
30:46I come from a federal,
30:47state, regional authorities
30:48with their competences,
30:50the national level
30:51and the European level.
30:52If we focus on the really big things
30:54on the European level,
30:55we will have the support
30:56by the citizens
30:57and we will be able to deliver
30:59what is really demanded.
31:00So parliament and council
31:02are co-legislators, right?
31:05What happens if MEPs refuse
31:07to dilute legislation
31:09that the commission wants to simplify?
31:13First of all, let me thank Marcus
31:16for the esteem he has in the Greens.
31:19Like we are the third smallest group
31:22in the parliament
31:23and we're managing to decide
31:25the agenda of the whole European Union.
31:28This is incredible.
31:28liberalist on the left.
31:29It's an incredible result.
31:31I am so amazed
31:33to be part of this group.
31:34You know,
31:34like they are the biggest party
31:36in the parliament.
31:37They have the majority
31:38of the governments
31:39and they have the president
31:40of the commission
31:40but who is harming Europe
31:42is the decision of the Greens
31:43that are set in the agenda.
31:45This is an incredible achievement.
31:46But that is what happened
31:47in the last period
31:48with the majority,
31:49with socialists,
31:50renew and communists.
31:51Sorry, that is what you did.
31:53That is what you did
31:54for deforestation
31:55with five votes ahead.
31:56Do not significant harm
31:57is an incredibly important principle
32:00that I thank the Greens
32:02to it.
32:02If it's really because of the Greens,
32:04I thank the Greens to excess,
32:06not because I'm part of it
32:07but because it's an incredibly important
32:09principle that I'm sorry
32:10but was taken on also
32:11from your president
32:12of the commission.
32:13I want to remember
32:14it's an EPP from Germany
32:16and she wanted it in.
32:18And this is actually
32:19supporting nature,
32:20supporting the people
32:21because it's saying
32:22how can you say
32:23do not significant harm
32:25is harming us.
32:26If it's harming,
32:27you should not do it
32:28and that is the basis
32:29of the principle.
32:30You brought it in with five votes,
32:32majority in the period.
32:32It's incredible.
32:33Okay, okay.
32:33Sorry.
32:34Guys,
32:35I think there's disagreement,
32:37fair enough,
32:38right,
32:38on this point.
32:40And I thank you for that.
32:41On that note,
32:42we can close this point
32:43as it is time to move on
32:45to our fifth and final round.
32:51As we want to do something different,
32:53I'm going to ask you
32:55a set of questions
32:56and you can only answer
32:58with a yes or no.
33:01has the political center
33:03lost control
33:04of the political agenda,
33:06of the European agenda
33:08to the far right
33:08and the populists?
33:11Yes.
33:13Markus?
33:14No, of course not.
33:16Okay.
33:17Should defense spending
33:18take priority
33:19over climate spending?
33:21That's not the issue,
33:22sorry.
33:24Climate spending
33:24is a European responsibility.
33:26Defense for the moment
33:27is a national one.
33:27Yes, but now we have
33:28a defense commissioner
33:29and somebody in general.
33:31Yeah, in general
33:31it's not so easy to answer
33:33as we don't have
33:33European projects.
33:34I would love to have
33:35European projects
33:36to finance,
33:37not to finance
33:37national budgets.
33:39Okay.
33:39So in that case,
33:40we are responsible
33:41for climate,
33:42not for defense.
33:43Okay.
33:44Actually,
33:44we have the ECF,
33:46the majority of it
33:46is going into defense
33:47and a minority
33:48is going for climate.
33:49So we have already
33:50the answer
33:51where the direction
33:52is going
33:52and I would say no,
33:54it should not take
33:55over the climate.
33:56Okay, good.
33:57That's right.
33:58Next one.
33:58Does Europe need
34:00a bigger EU budget?
34:01Absolutely, yes.
34:03No, more focused.
34:05Okay.
34:06Should the EU
34:07abandon its
34:082040 climate ambitions
34:10if they undermine
34:11competitiveness?
34:13Absolutely, no.
34:14We have to achieve both,
34:15yes.
34:16Should member states
34:17be allowed to run
34:18bigger deficits
34:19to invest in defense?
34:21No.
34:22Defense, no.
34:26is common European debt
34:29necessary?
34:30Absolutely, yes.
34:32No.
34:32It transfers only the cost
34:34to another source
34:35which is not able
34:36to pay.
34:37Should agricultural subsidies
34:38be cut to finance
34:40European security?
34:41Only a little bit.
34:43I don't think, no.
34:45And last one.
34:47Is the EU doing enough
34:48to convince younger Europeans
34:50that the European project
34:51offers them
34:52a better future?
34:53Unfortunately,
34:54no at the moment.
34:56I think the EU is really
34:58pro-European
34:59and we should help them
35:00to continue being so.
35:02Okay.
35:02On that note,
35:04thank you very much.
35:05And that brings us
35:06to the end of this
35:07strong edition of The Ring.
35:10Thanks again to
35:10Benedetta Scudeli
35:11and Markus Faber
35:12for a lively conversation
35:14here from the
35:15European Parliament.
35:16Thanks to our audience
35:17at home.
35:18If you like,
35:19you can continue
35:20the conversation
35:20by sending us
35:21your comments
35:22to thering
35:23at euronews.com.
35:25We'd love to have
35:26your feedback.
35:27That's it for today.
35:28I'm Stefan Grobe.
35:29Take care and
35:30see you soon
35:31here on Euronews.