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Europa: grandes debates sobre migração, Mercosul e habitação no The Ring
Esta edição especial retoma debates e discussões sobre migrações, comércio e habitação, três temas que estiveram no centro da agenda política europeia este ano
LEIA MAIS : http://pt.euronews.com/2026/08/05/europa-grandes-debates-sobre-migracao-mercosul-e-habitacao-no-the-ring
Subscreva, euronews está disponível em 12 línguas.
Esta edição especial retoma debates e discussões sobre migrações, comércio e habitação, três temas que estiveram no centro da agenda política europeia este ano
LEIA MAIS : http://pt.euronews.com/2026/08/05/europa-grandes-debates-sobre-migracao-mercosul-e-habitacao-no-the-ring
Subscreva, euronews está disponível em 12 línguas.
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NotíciasTranscrição
00:08Olá, e bem-vindos a essa especial
00:10summer edition de The Ring,
00:13Eurionews's weekly debate show.
00:15I'm Maeve McMahon, em Brussels.
00:17Well, on The Ring,
00:18members of the European Parliament
00:20come face-to-face inside the European Parliament
00:22on some of the most challenging issues
00:25facing the European Union today.
00:27Well, as they take a summer break
00:29and the city is vacated,
00:31we're taking a look back
00:31at some of our favourite parts of The Ring this season.
00:35Well, one of the major debates
00:36that's been taking place in Brussels for years
00:38and also on The Ring is about migration
00:41and how to manage it.
00:42That was a debate that took place
00:44between Juan Fernando López Aguilar,
00:46Spanish MEP from the Socialists,
00:48with his Swedish MEP from the European People's Party,
00:51Thomas Tobey.
00:52Take a look.
00:56Of course, Europe needs work migration.
00:59That is not the problem.
01:01The problem we have is that we have
01:03a large number of illegal migration
01:05and only one out of five
01:08who don't have the right to stay in Europe
01:10actually returns.
01:12And of course, we need to shift this.
01:14We need to have control of our borders.
01:16People who don't have the right to be in Europe
01:18should not be in Europe.
01:19And then, of course,
01:20we should have legal work migration.
01:22But what we're seeing now,
01:24for example, in Spain,
01:26they are now giving amnesty
01:27to 500,000 illegal migrants.
01:31This is a direct threat to the Schengen area.
01:34It undermines the Europe effort.
01:37We are trying to work now
01:38to have a more of a common
01:40European migration policy.
01:42And I think it's time for us
01:44to actually decide
01:45do we want to have control of the border?
01:48Do we want to have legal work migration?
01:51Or should we continue this path in Europe
01:53with the legal migration?
01:54It needs to stop.
01:55I strongly disagree with
01:57what I just heard from my colleague and friend
01:59Thomas Tobey.
02:00First, there's no illegal people.
02:02We used to talk about irregular migrants.
02:04It's not an amnesty.
02:05He used the word amnesty.
02:06Of course it is not.
02:07It's a regularization
02:08which belongs to the competence
02:10of the member states.
02:11And it's been recognized
02:13by the European Commission itself.
02:15Second, it is not true
02:17that they're illegal.
02:20We always had a problem
02:21in the European Union
02:22with lack of legal pathways.
02:24That's one thing.
02:25We need more legal pathways.
02:27But when people come irregularly,
02:29it's because they are not given
02:30the chance to make it regularly.
02:32But insofar as they happen
02:34to already be in Spain,
02:35working in Spain,
02:37we are regulating
02:37not only human beings
02:39but also jobs.
02:41And we're making it possible
02:43for those human beings
02:45employed in the irregular economy
02:48in the so-called black market
02:50as for now
02:51to make it regularly
02:52so that they can actually pay taxes.
02:54They can actually contribute
02:55to the sustainability
02:57of the social services
02:58in which it is a fact
02:59that they support more,
03:02they give more
03:02than they receive.
03:03It is not true
03:05that they are predatory
03:06to social services.
03:07On the contrary,
03:08they can actually contribute
03:09to the sustainability
03:11of the social services.
03:12And I make a final point.
03:13Spain is number one
03:15in growth and job creation
03:16in the European Union.
03:18And there is no economic analysis
03:19that does not underline
03:22the fact that it's largely due
03:24because it's alternative approach,
03:26positive approach,
03:27to migration,
03:28incorporating inclusive
03:29integrating migrants
03:31instead of rejecting migrants.
03:32We've got to move on
03:33to our next round.
03:35I see you're all warm-tub already.
03:40So now this is the moment
03:41for you to ask each other
03:43questions directly.
03:44So since I cut you off,
03:46Mr. Toby,
03:46let me give you the floor
03:47in the first place.
03:49Juan Fernando López Aguilar,
03:50we worked together
03:51on the migration pact,
03:53the last mandate.
03:54I think we actually achieved
03:55some very important things
03:57together for Europe.
03:59But you also know
04:00that we need to tackle
04:01returns.
04:03One out of five people
04:05are actually returned.
04:06And this cannot continue.
04:08Now commission
04:09is presenting proposals
04:11supported by several
04:13S&D governments
04:14across Europe.
04:15But now the S&D group
04:17and the European Parliament
04:18are voting no
04:19to every proposal.
04:20that means that we actually
04:22could be more efficient
04:23with returns.
04:24When would you face
04:25the reality?
04:26Yes, we work together
04:28in the migration
04:28and asylum pact.
04:29Eight regulations.
04:30But it's not complete.
04:32It takes a lot of
04:33coordination in search
04:34and rescue operation
04:35at a European scale.
04:36It takes a lot
04:36of legal pathways.
04:38It takes a lot of
04:38cracking down
04:39on the business model
04:40of organized crime
04:41dealing with trafficking
04:43of human beings.
04:44But yes,
04:45we have to come up
04:47with a European scale
04:48of response
04:48when it comes to migration
04:49and asylum
04:50and returns.
04:51It's part of the equation.
04:53We don't deny that.
04:54But we want returns
04:55to be negotiated
04:56with dignity,
04:58with third parties,
05:00with third parties,
05:01countries of transit
05:02and origin.
05:02And it takes
05:03a diplomatic architecture
05:04which is lacking.
05:05You cannot impose returns
05:06and you cannot ignore
05:08that you cannot return people
05:10to places
05:11they don't belong to.
05:13And that is why
05:14we object the proposal
05:16by the commission
05:16because it escapes
05:18the meaningful link
05:20between the country
05:21of transit or origin
05:23and the human being
05:24which is supposedly
05:25to be returned there.
05:26I have heard
05:27because I have been
05:29the representative
05:29of the European Parliament
05:30in the Council
05:31of Ministers of Interior
05:32many times,
05:33fly them to Rwanda.
05:34And my question is
05:35why Rwanda?
05:36Do you think
05:36because they're just
05:37indistinct in Rwanda
05:38because they're black
05:39even though
05:40they don't belong
05:41to Rwanda?
05:42even though
05:43they come from Mali
05:44or from Sudan
05:45or from Uganda?
05:47No, it doesn't make sense.
05:49You need meaningful links.
05:50And for that
05:51it takes a negotiation
05:52with third parties.
05:54It doesn't suffice
05:55that you simply
05:56pay some ruler
05:57some money
05:58to keep them
05:59out of our sight.
06:00So you say
06:00why are we doing
06:01the Rwanda model?
06:02We're not talking
06:02about Rwanda here.
06:03It's about saying
06:05we have candidate countries
06:06to Europe.
06:08Could we consider them
06:09safe countries?
06:10So they go up
06:11to Albania?
06:12It could be.
06:14We're talking about
06:15for example
06:16India.
06:17We have a
06:18I mean
06:18look at the
06:19assignment request
06:21unfolded assignment request
06:22there are under 5%
06:24that actually
06:25get a yes
06:26to come to Europe.
06:27And everything
06:28will be assessed
06:29individually.
06:30But what we need
06:31to do
06:31we cannot continue
06:32in this way
06:33where we have
06:33a lot of unfounded
06:34assignment requests
06:36coming to Europe
06:36and then it takes
06:38a long time
06:38and basically
06:39it means that
06:40you never leave.
06:41We cannot continue
06:42in this way.
06:42But just to be precise
06:43on this point
06:43for our viewers
06:44when you mentioned Albania
06:45the Italian government
06:46ran into major issues
06:47with the judiciary
06:48over sending
06:50migrants arriving
06:51in Italy
06:51to Albania.
06:52So it's not
06:53crystal clear
06:53this is going to work.
06:54No, no, no.
06:54But Albania
06:55is another topic
06:56it's between
06:57it's a deal
06:58that has been done
06:59by the Italian
07:01and the Albanian
07:02that is a deal
07:03that they've done.
07:04But if they had issues
07:05what makes you think
07:05that the EU
07:06would not run into issues
07:07in other candidate countries?
07:08Well, this proposal
07:11has been now assessed
07:13by all the EU authorities
07:15UNHCR
07:16and of course
07:17we have the right
07:18to return people
07:19if they are not
07:21in any risk
07:22of persecution
07:23and so on.
07:24We S&D
07:24we don't deny
07:25the importance
07:26of returns.
07:26Actually
07:27we have heard
07:27about just
07:29ministers of interior
07:31which are actually
07:31concerned about returns.
07:32but why
07:33the percentage
07:35of returnees
07:36is so low?
07:37Because we don't have
07:38an architecture
07:39of agreements
07:40with third parties
07:41of transit
07:41and origin
07:42and then
07:43there comes
07:44the commission
07:44saying
07:45we're going
07:46to enlarge
07:46the list
07:47arbitrarily
07:48the list
07:48of safe
07:50third countries
07:51including Bangladesh
07:52and Egypt
07:53for instance
07:53which are not
07:54considered
07:55safe countries
07:56of transit
07:56or origin
07:57by the European
07:58Asylum Agency.
07:59that is why
08:00we have objected
08:01we have tried
08:02to come up
08:02with amendments
08:03and the
08:05conservative party
08:05the people's party
08:07the EPP
08:08along with the far right
08:09have denied
08:10all of our amendments
08:12saying that
08:13they are red lines
08:14for them.
08:14So what is the question?
08:15My question is
08:16do you really think
08:17that you can actually
08:18export people
08:19to some third country
08:21with no meaningful links
08:23with those particular
08:23human beings
08:24just for the sake
08:25that you're paying
08:26some money
08:26to some ruler
08:27to keep them
08:28out of our sight?
08:29Do you think
08:30you can send
08:30someone
08:31which is actually
08:32from Sudan
08:32to Egypt
08:34or do you think
08:35you can send
08:36someone
08:36which is actually
08:37from Uganda
08:38to Libya
08:39or to Tunisia
08:40just for the sake
08:41of having them
08:42out of our sight?
08:43Do you think
08:44that we can actually
08:45ignore the meaningful
08:46links which include
08:47culture,
08:47linguistic
08:48or even family links
08:50which are to be
08:51considered seriously
08:52by countries
08:53which are to return
08:54human beings
08:55to some other place?
08:56So let's hear it.
08:57if the socialist
08:58in the European
08:59Parliament
08:59would decide
09:00there are no
09:01safe countries
09:02outside of Europe
09:02I mean
09:03I hear that
09:04when we started
09:05the negotiations
09:06about the countries
09:07there's no country
09:08that you can accept
09:09if you come to Europe
09:10of course we need
09:11to assess
09:12where you come from
09:13of course
09:13we will always do that
09:15but of course
09:15there are countries
09:16when a person
09:17comes to Europe
09:18we can look
09:19from which country
09:19have you been
09:20could you be safe
09:22in this country
09:22or not
09:23that is the question
09:24and of course
09:25people are
09:25this is now portrayed
09:27as some kind of
09:29delusional
09:30far-right policy
09:31this is a policy
09:33coming from commission
09:34this is a policy
09:35coming from S&D
09:36governments
09:36all across Europe
09:37because we cannot
09:38continue in this way
09:40where we have only
09:41one out of five people
09:43return in Europe
09:43then it means
09:45that even the people
09:46that need protection
09:47in Europe
09:48will not get
09:49the protection
09:49in Europe
09:53another major topic
09:54up for debate
09:55this year
09:55was the EU
09:56Mercosur deal
09:57that was signed
09:58at the start
09:59of 2026
10:00but what are the pros
10:01and cons
10:02of this trade deal
10:03and what does it mean
10:04for you
10:04those are the questions
10:05we put to
10:06Ciarán Maluli
10:07Irish MEP
10:08from Renew Europe
10:09and the Swedish MEP
10:10from the European
10:10People's Party
10:11Jorgen Warburne
10:15I think the viewers
10:17saw
10:19that China
10:20is now
10:20pressing us
10:21on one part
10:22and US
10:23on the other parts
10:24from a geopolitical
10:25standpoint
10:25this is a good deal
10:27from an economic
10:28standpoint
10:28this is a good deal
10:30it is creating
10:31more jobs
10:31in Europe
10:32so we need it
10:33as soon as possible
10:34and you mentioned
10:36one of the issues
10:37that made you
10:39want to send it
10:40for a legal check
10:41but that is not
10:42really true
10:43that the rebalancing
10:44mechanism
10:45it's covered for
10:46within the agreement
10:47there is no issue
10:48there
10:49and there is a
10:50potentiality now
10:51that the deal
10:51could be provisionally
10:53implemented
10:54that's what we need
10:55now
10:55how would you feel
10:56about that
10:57if the commission
10:57already
10:58I have a major problem
10:59I have a major problem
11:00just to stick with
11:01the vote this week
11:02the majority
11:03of our MEPs
11:04all around Europe
11:05have felt
11:06that this issue
11:07needs to be referred
11:08it needs to be looked
11:09at in depth
11:10remember
11:11right across Europe
11:12take countries
11:12like France
11:13and Poland
11:14127 MEPs
11:16in those areas
11:16voted yes
11:17for this decision
11:18they represent
11:19the biggest industries
11:20Germany the biggest
11:21economy is in favour
11:22but the French MEPs
11:23and the Polish
11:24to a person
11:25representing industries
11:26in Bordeaux
11:27and Paris
11:28and right across
11:29Warsaw
11:30and yet they said
11:31we need a legal
11:32referral
11:32do you trust
11:33Jürgen
11:33do you not trust
11:34their judgment
11:35that this needs
11:35to go back
11:36to terms of industry
11:37and their countries
11:37it's the other way
11:38around
11:39I mean it's in
11:40for the rebalancing
11:41mechanism
11:41as you mentioned
11:42one of the most
11:43important part
11:44from you
11:44it is actually
11:46in the agreement
11:47but they want
11:48it to be reviewed
11:49obviously
11:50so why did you
11:51want to review it
11:52members of parliament
11:52are asked to
11:53members of parliament
11:54are asked to come forward
11:55and to represent
11:56their constituents
11:57the industries
11:58in France
11:59and in Poland
12:00and in Ireland
12:00said we don't
12:01we want to see
12:02a proper legal review
12:03so if you read
12:04article 21
12:051410c
12:06you will see
12:07the rebalancing
12:07mechanism
12:08out there
12:09have you read
12:09that article
12:09no I haven't
12:10but I've looked
12:11at the precedents
12:14that have been
12:14suggested as precedents
12:15in the precedents
12:16cases
12:17there were previous
12:18trade agreements
12:18with the European Union
12:19there's no previous
12:20trade agreement
12:20with regard to
12:21the Mercosur countries
12:21and in those
12:22circumstances
12:23it's in order
12:23that we do this
12:24we haven't used it
12:25before
12:25I agree with that
12:26but it's also
12:27within all the
12:28W2 rules
12:29and since it's
12:30in the agreement
12:31which you
12:32obviously haven't read
12:33you still voted
12:35to send it
12:36for legal checks
12:36because I represent
12:37my country
12:38and the industry
12:39in my country
12:39the same way
12:40as the French
12:40in Bordeaux
12:41and Paris
12:42and Warsaw
12:42say we want
12:43a legal review
12:44of this agreement
12:45what are you afraid
12:45of Jürgen
12:46are you afraid
12:46to come back
12:47that it will not
12:48come back at all
12:49what are you afraid
12:51of
12:51I'm afraid
12:52of losing
12:55economic development
12:56I'm afraid
12:56of losing
12:58jobs in Europe
12:59I'm afraid
13:00of the small
13:00business owners
13:01I'm afraid
13:02of all that
13:03growth
13:03that Europe
13:04needs in this
13:05moment
13:05my issue
13:06and one of the
13:07big issues
13:07I have with this
13:07deal is the
13:08scale of it
13:09it's overrated
13:10it's overstated
13:11I'm pro-trade
13:12I'm in favour
13:13of the EU
13:14India trade agreement
13:14I was cheering
13:16yesterday morning
13:16why
13:17because of the
13:18scale of it
13:18we're talking
13:18about a country
13:19with 1.5 billion
13:21people
13:21as opposed to
13:22Mercosur
13:22with 300 million
13:23people
13:24we're talking
13:24about a country
13:25with limited
13:25trade opportunities
13:26as opposed to
13:27India
13:27which has shown
13:29a willingness
13:29to trade
13:29these are totally
13:30different situations
13:31you're afraid
13:32they won't come back
13:33just let me stop
13:34you there
13:34because actually
13:34we're just getting
13:35warmed up here
13:36and it's time
13:36to take
13:36the gloves
13:37off
13:41so now
13:41you both
13:42have the
13:42opportunity
13:42to kick
13:44off with
13:44your own
13:44questions
13:45so I will
13:45stay quiet
13:46for a minute
13:46Kieran you
13:47go ahead
13:47please with
13:48your first
13:48question
13:48I want to
13:49ask Jürgen
13:49up straight
13:50if he knows
13:51what antimicrobial
13:52resistance is
13:53in terms of
13:54medical situation
13:54it's basically
13:56a medical
13:57condition which
13:58occurs after
13:58the overuse
13:59of antibiotics
14:00it's something
14:01that affects
14:01you and me
14:02forget about
14:02the animals
14:03for the moment
14:03it's you and
14:04your kids
14:04your family
14:05and if in
14:06an emergency
14:07situation you
14:08go into
14:08hospital you
14:08require antibiotics
14:09if you've been
14:11exposed to more
14:11antibiotics than
14:12you knew in the
14:13course of your
14:13life you're in
14:14big trouble
14:15Brazilian meat is
14:15coming in the
14:16end of the
14:17day we know
14:17antibiotics are
14:18in it we've
14:18seen it in my
14:19country we've
14:19had an expose
14:20with regard to
14:21right across
14:22Brazil it's
14:23still going on
14:23so the question
14:24is very
14:24straightforward
14:26at the end
14:27of the day
14:27what price do
14:28you put on
14:29the safety of
14:29your family
14:31so the meat is
14:32coming in no
14:33matter with
14:33the Mercosur
14:34agreement
14:34or not
14:35and what
14:36happens if we
14:37have the
14:37Mercosur
14:38agreement is
14:39that we
14:39increase the
14:40checks
14:40in fact we
14:42will do
14:4250% more
14:44checks in
14:45the Mercosur
14:46countries
14:46we will do
14:4733% more
14:49checks at
14:50the border
14:50at the
14:51European
14:52borders
14:52and there
14:53will be a
14:54task force
14:55to improve
14:55the border
14:56efficiency
14:57so actually
14:58for health
14:59for people
15:01and for
15:02animals
15:02and for
15:03the plants
15:03there will
15:04be more
15:04checks
15:05with the
15:06Mercosur
15:06agreement
15:06without the
15:08argument
15:09you can
15:09guarantee
15:09this
15:09because on
15:10the 25th
15:11of September
15:11last year
15:12they came
15:13into Ireland
15:13I've asked
15:14the commission
15:14since that
15:15about the
15:16checks
15:16where the
15:17meat came
15:17from
15:18where it
15:18went to
15:18the commission
15:19doesn't know
15:20they still don't
15:21know
15:21so you're not
15:22reassured by
15:22what you're
15:23saying
15:23that's a fact
15:24we can ask
15:25you can ask
15:25anybody in the
15:26parliament next
15:26week
15:27when we ask
15:27the commissioner
15:28where did it
15:29come from
15:29where did it
15:29go
15:29but are your
15:31voters not
15:31excited about
15:32cheaper steaks
15:32fortunately
15:33the EU
15:33one of the
15:34fantastic things
15:34about the EU
15:35is the focus
15:36on quality
15:37and health
15:38over the years
15:38our Irish
15:39consumer
15:40largely
15:41wants to see
15:42the continuation
15:42of proper
15:43quality
15:43and safe
15:44that's the
15:45big issue
15:45for me
15:45safe food
15:46and your
15:46family
15:47and my
15:47family
15:47we can be
15:48sure
15:48your opportunity
15:49now to pose
15:49your first
15:50question
15:50please
15:50to Kieran
15:51Melluli
15:51we have
15:52US and China
15:53pressing us
15:54from two parts
15:54it's been very
15:55very hard
15:56with US
15:57lately
15:57and we need
15:58more trade
15:59agreements
16:01India
16:01it's very good
16:02that you are
16:03pro the Indian
16:04one
16:04and we have
16:05several others
16:05the Chile
16:06one I guess
16:07you voted
16:07for as well
16:08why do you
16:10choose
16:11not to have
16:12the growth
16:12that comes
16:13with a
16:14Mercosur
16:14agreement
16:15you say
16:15it's too
16:16small
16:16but it's
16:17still growth
16:17it's still
16:18more jobs
16:19for
16:20for European
16:21businesses
16:22it supports
16:23small and
16:23medium sized
16:24businesses
16:24we need
16:26growth in
16:26Europe
16:26so why
16:27can you not
16:28help
16:28with
16:30providing
16:30that growth
16:31it's a fair
16:31question
16:32the geopolitical
16:32situation
16:33has been
16:33one of the
16:34big unsettling
16:35issues as I
16:36joined the
16:36parliament
16:36every week
16:37there's a
16:37different agenda
16:38and usually
16:39driven by the
16:39United States
16:40or otherwise
16:40but the point
16:41is you're
16:41right
16:42we need
16:42to do
16:42more trade
16:43but for me
16:43as an
16:44MEP
16:44I have to
16:45balance
16:45on one side
16:46the better
16:46good of the
16:47EU
16:47and on the
16:48other side
16:49the better
16:49good of the
16:49economy
16:50of the
16:50EU
16:51and when
16:51the people
16:51of France
16:52and the people
16:52of Poland
16:53the people
16:53of Austria
16:54Ireland
16:54and even
16:55Belgium
16:55have come in
16:56and said
16:56at the end
16:57of the day
16:57we're more
16:58to lose
16:59in a deal
16:59of this size
17:00because it's
17:01so small
17:02that's what
17:02they're saying
17:02to me
17:03even though I
17:03don't know if
17:03the French
17:03economy should
17:04be a good
17:04example
17:06nevertheless
17:06the French
17:06are united
17:07on this
17:08we've seen
17:08it in the
17:08parliament
17:09I mean
17:09127 MEPs
17:10can't be wrong
17:11can they all
17:11be wrong
17:11Jürgen
17:12they can all
17:13be wrong
17:14I'm afraid
17:14that's a bit
17:14of a statement
17:15about you
17:16and democracy
17:16because at the
17:17end of the day
17:17they represent
17:18left, right
17:18and middle
17:19Kira Malouli
17:20you've transferred
17:20another question
17:21there
17:21are you in
17:22favour of a
17:23deal which
17:23at the end
17:24of the day
17:24continues to
17:25leave workers
17:26in Brazil
17:26on an average
17:27monthly salary
17:28of just
17:291000 euro
17:30it's doing
17:31nothing for trade
17:31how could you
17:32support that
17:33nothing for
17:33employees and
17:34workers in
17:34Brazil
17:34you're right
17:35answer
17:35so if we
17:38vote down
17:38the Mercosur
17:39trade agreement
17:41how will it
17:41help the
17:42workers in
17:43Brazil
17:44how will it
17:45help the
17:45workers in
17:47Europe
17:48in Ireland
17:48it will be
17:50the opposite
17:50and we spoke
17:51about it
17:51it's about
17:52growth
17:53Europe is
17:54facing a
17:55huge growth
17:56problem
17:56and it's
17:57good that
17:57the commission
17:58is now
17:58pushing to
18:00change this
18:01position
18:01we have
18:02the Draga
18:02report
18:02we need
18:03to do
18:03a lot
18:03of things
18:04the rest
18:05of the
18:05world
18:05is growing
18:06faster
18:06than Europe
18:07and that's
18:08why we need
18:09to tap
18:10into that
18:10growth
18:11and we do
18:11that with
18:12the trade
18:13agreements
18:13but you
18:14decide that
18:15you do
18:15not want
18:15to tap
18:16into that
18:16growth
18:17to 270
18:18million
18:19consumers
18:20that can
18:21sell the
18:21cars
18:22the
18:24pharmaceuticals
18:24I also
18:25look at
18:25the
18:25trade unions
18:26tell us
18:26that
18:26500
18:28per month
18:29is the
18:29average
18:30one
18:30the top
18:3010%
18:31are on
18:311200
18:32per month
18:33today
18:33that has
18:34been the way
18:35for some
18:35time
18:35and you
18:35know
18:36that
18:36so
18:36and
18:37another
18:38point
18:38just to
18:40complicate it
18:40even further
18:41for you
18:41you want
18:42to sell
18:42cars
18:43into this
18:44community
18:45how many
18:45of these
18:45workers
18:46are going
18:46to be able
18:46to afford
18:47a Volvo
18:47car
18:47at that
18:49wage
18:49at that
18:49salary
18:50never
18:50much more
18:54of the
18:55workers
18:55will afford
18:56it
18:56if we have
18:57the
18:57Mercosur agreement
18:58not a chance
18:58because economic
18:59development
19:00will increase
19:01with the
19:02agreement
19:02that's what
19:03trade does
19:03actually the
19:04European export
19:05will grow
19:06by 39%
19:08that's a
19:09huge
19:09possibility
19:10for
19:11cars
19:12for car
19:12parts
19:13for
19:14machinery
19:14for
19:15pharmaceutical
19:16products
19:16and for
19:17farmers
19:18and that's
19:18why the
19:18industry
19:19have called
19:19it the
19:19big
19:20trophy
19:20that they
19:20took
19:21home
19:21from
19:21Paraguay
19:21and you
19:22mentioned
19:22Mario Draghi
19:23he has been
19:24invited to
19:25the EU
19:25leaders
19:25retreat
19:26in February
19:26and that
19:27just describes
19:27how bad
19:28really our
19:28economy
19:28is
19:29right now
19:29what
19:30Kieran
19:30is doing
19:30is saying
19:31no
19:32to growth
19:32and I'm
19:33saying yes
19:33to growth
19:34I'm saying
19:34balance
19:34I'm saying
19:35balance it
19:36out
19:39as you
19:40can see
19:40a fascinating
19:41debate
19:42you can read
19:42more about
19:43that trade
19:44deal on
19:44Euronews.com
19:45but now
19:46it's time
19:46for us to
19:47take a
19:47very short
19:48break
19:49stay with
19:49us here
19:50on Euronews
19:51we'll be
19:51back with
19:51The Ring
19:52soon
20:01Welcome back
20:02to this
20:02summer special
20:03edition of
20:04The Ring
20:04Euronews'
20:05Weekly Debate
20:06Show
20:06I'm
20:07Maeve
20:07Mac
20:07Mahon
20:08and as
20:08members of
20:09the European
20:09Parliament
20:10take a
20:10break from
20:11the city
20:11and the
20:12Parliament
20:12for a couple
20:13of weeks
20:13we're just
20:13replaying you
20:14some of the
20:15highlights of
20:15some of the
20:16debates we've
20:16had on this
20:17year's season
20:18one focuses on
20:19housing a major
20:21issue of anxiety
20:22for thousands of
20:23Europeans across
20:24the continent
20:24and housing is now
20:25actually a top
20:26political priority
20:27here in the
20:28European Union
20:29but what exactly
20:30can Brussels do to
20:31help the question
20:32that we posed
20:33to Dirk Gutting
20:34a Dutch member
20:35of the European
20:35Parliament
20:36and Maria
20:36Oisalo
20:37Finnish member
20:38take a look
20:42so let me
20:42welcome to the
20:43ring Dirk Gutting
20:44and Maria
20:45Oisalo
20:45good to see you
20:47I think the
20:48core question
20:49right now is
20:50why are
20:51housing costs
20:52rising faster
20:53than wages
20:54almost everywhere
20:55one of the
20:56key questions
20:57is the
20:58speculation
20:59financialization
21:00of housing
21:01market that
21:01homes are not
21:02considered
21:02primarily as
21:03human rights
21:04but as asset
21:05classes for
21:06big hedge funds
21:07companies
21:07private investors
21:09and then
21:10just saying
21:11that we should
21:12build and get
21:12more investors
21:13to the market
21:14this will not
21:14solve the
21:15problem
21:15we need more
21:16affordable housing
21:18and available
21:18housing for
21:19everybody
21:19but somebody
21:21has to build
21:21them
21:21right
21:22exactly
21:22and this
21:22kind of
21:23state-sponsored
21:24sort of
21:24subsidies
21:25will only
21:26drive up
21:26more the
21:27prices
21:27we want
21:28to fix
21:28the problem
21:29in the
21:29market
21:30because
21:30building
21:31materials
21:31are getting
21:32very expensive
21:33which is
21:34one of the
21:34reasons
21:34why housing
21:35prices
21:36go up
21:37but also
21:37governments
21:38try things
21:38like rent
21:39controls
21:39and all
21:40kinds of
21:41other
21:41stimulating
21:41demand
21:42stimulating
21:42measures
21:43that also
21:44drive up
21:45prices
21:45because
21:45what
21:46happens
21:47if you
21:47can get
21:48more money
21:48from the
21:48bank
21:49that is
21:50that the
21:50sellers of
21:51houses
21:51will start
21:51increasing
21:52their prices
21:52and this
21:53is not
21:54financial
21:55speculators
21:55these are
21:56citizens
21:56who have
21:56paid their
21:57entire lives
21:58to buy
21:59one or
21:59maybe a
22:00second
22:00house
22:00and then
22:01you treat
22:02them as if
22:03they're
22:03criminals
22:04and if
22:05they're
22:05not
22:05allowed
22:05to sell
22:06there
22:06can be
22:07speculators
22:07I did
22:08not say
22:08that
22:09only
22:10public
22:10investment
22:11will
22:11solve
22:11the
22:11problem
22:12but we
22:12have
22:13no
22:13experience
22:13of
22:14any
22:14country
22:14in
22:14the
22:15world
22:15that
22:15could
22:15have
22:15solved
22:16the
22:16housing
22:16crisis
22:16by
22:17only
22:17building
22:18more
22:19private
22:19housing
22:20no
22:20we need
22:21a
22:21mixed
22:21model
22:22and also
22:22tackling
22:23the
22:23short-term
22:24rentals
22:24which was
22:25also
22:25in the
22:25insert
22:26this is
22:26a key
22:27question
22:27not only
22:28in the
22:28southern
22:28Europe
22:29but also
22:29back
22:30home
22:30up north
22:31in
22:34where
22:34students
22:34can
22:34afford
22:35to
22:35live
22:36in
22:36the
22:36city
22:36center
22:36anymore
22:37because
22:37it's
22:37packed
22:38of
22:38short-term
22:38rental
22:39homes
22:39homes
22:39are
22:40being
22:40built
22:41as we
22:42speak
22:42not
22:43only
22:43at
22:44the
22:44places
22:45where
22:45we
22:45need
22:45the
22:45most
22:46why
22:47is
22:47that
22:47so
22:47well
22:48the
22:48problem
22:48with
22:48Europe
22:48is
22:49that
22:49there's
22:49no
22:49one
22:49size
22:50fits
22:50all
22:50that's
22:51why
22:51we
22:51cannot
22:51have
22:51one
22:52single
22:52policy
22:52on
22:53housing
22:53and
22:53we
22:54don't
22:54want
22:54that
22:54because
22:55local
22:56local
22:57authorities
22:57like
22:58mayors
22:58and
22:58municipalities
22:59but
22:59also
23:00regional
23:00authorities
23:00they
23:01need
23:02to
23:02be
23:02on
23:03the
23:03front
23:03line
23:04of
23:04solving
23:04the
23:05housing
23:05crisis
23:05in
23:06Europe
23:06we
23:07can
23:07help
23:07them
23:08with
23:09things
23:09like
23:09what
23:09I
23:09said
23:10making
23:10sure
23:11that
23:11the
23:11market
23:12for
23:12building
23:13materials
23:13works
23:14changing
23:15state
23:16aid
23:16rules
23:16because
23:17indeed
23:17we
23:18need
23:18a
23:18mixed
23:19approach
23:19of
23:19public
23:20and
23:20private
23:20investment
23:21so
23:21that
23:21we
23:22can
23:22also
23:22invest
23:22in
23:23middle
23:23class
23:24affordable
23:25housing
23:26because
23:26your
23:27introduction
23:27said
23:27it
23:27was
23:28mostly
23:28the
23:29lower
23:29salaries
23:30that
23:30had
23:31problems
23:31lower
23:31income
23:32groups
23:32but
23:32in
23:32fact
23:32it
23:33has
23:33become
23:33a
23:33generalized
23:34middle
23:34income
23:35crisis
23:36in
23:36Europe
23:36the
23:37problem
23:37is
23:37that
23:38we
23:38also
23:38have
23:38a lot
23:39of
23:39vacant
23:39homes
23:40around
23:40Europe
23:40especially
23:41the
23:42ones
23:42that
23:42are
23:43used
23:43for
23:43speculative
23:44reasons
23:45and
23:45this
23:45is
23:46where
23:46the
23:46governments
23:46can
23:47step
23:47in
23:47EU
23:47can
23:48actually
23:48be
23:49there
23:49to
23:49inform
23:50the
23:51governments
23:51to
23:51maybe
23:52introduce
23:53vacancy
23:53taxes
23:55for
23:57speed
23:57up
23:58selling
23:58so
23:59that
23:59you
23:59should
23:59maybe
24:00maintain
24:00the
24:01home
24:01for
24:01two
24:02years
24:02or
24:02three
24:02years
24:03and
24:03then
24:03after
24:03that
24:04sell
24:04it
24:05then
24:05one
24:05problem
24:06is
24:06also
24:06that
24:06when
24:07we
24:07then
24:07state
24:08subsidize
24:09affordable
24:09housing
24:10after
24:1020
24:1130
24:11years
24:12these
24:12homes
24:12are
24:13actually
24:13sold
24:13into
24:14the
24:14market
24:14and
24:15this
24:15is
24:15also
24:15a
24:15huge
24:16problem
24:16so
24:17that
24:17when
24:17state
24:18is
24:18subsidizing
24:18something
24:19they
24:19should
24:20maintain
24:20affordable
24:21and
24:21they
24:21should
24:22maintain
24:22the
24:23state
24:23subsidize
24:24okay
24:24and
24:25it's
24:25time
24:25for
24:26our
24:26fifth
24:26and
24:27final
24:27round
24:31we
24:32want to
24:32do
24:32something
24:33different
24:33here
24:33I'm
24:34going
24:34to
24:34ask
24:35you
24:35a
24:35set
24:35of
24:35questions
24:36and
24:36you
24:36can
24:36only
24:37answer
24:37with
24:37a
24:38yes
24:38or
24:39no
24:39if
24:40that's
24:40okay
24:41can
24:42the
24:42EU
24:43meaningfully
24:44act
24:44when
24:44housing
24:45policy
24:45is
24:46mostly
24:46national
24:47or
24:47local
24:48yes
24:48yes
24:49yes
24:50definitely
24:51okay
24:51should
24:52Brussels
24:53stronger
24:53coordinating
24:54or
24:54funding
24:55role
24:55yes
24:56yes
24:56funding
24:57yes
24:58coordinating
24:58no
24:59no
24:59should
25:00governments
25:00impose
25:01strict
25:01rent
25:01controls
25:02to
25:03limit
25:03price
25:03increase
25:04show
25:05me
25:05where
25:05it
25:06worked
25:07we
25:08have
25:08different
25:09opinions
25:09about
25:09this
25:10in our
25:10political
25:11group
25:11here
25:11in the
25:11parliament
25:12personally
25:13I
25:13would
25:13say
25:13no
25:14no
25:15should
25:16foreign
25:16investors
25:17face
25:17limits
25:18or
25:18bans
25:19on
25:19buying
25:19residential
25:20property
25:20yes
25:21definitely
25:21now we
25:22can talk
25:23about
25:23it
25:24okay
25:25I
25:25take
25:26this
25:26as
25:26yes
25:26should
25:27zoning
25:28laws
25:28be
25:29relaxed
25:29to
25:29allow
25:30denser
25:30construction
25:31in
25:31urban
25:31areas
25:32yes
25:34it
25:35depends
25:35on
25:35the
25:36set
25:36of
25:36other
25:37legislation
25:37also
25:38when
25:38it
25:38comes
25:39to
25:39nature
25:39climate
25:40and so
25:41on
25:41so
25:42rather
25:43no
25:44rather
25:45no
25:45okay
25:46should
25:47vacant
25:47properties
25:48be
25:48taxed
25:49or
25:49expropriated
25:50to
25:50bring
25:50them
25:51onto
25:51the
25:51market
25:51yes
25:55in
25:56highly
25:57populated
25:58urban
25:58areas
25:59if you
25:59leave
26:00properties
26:01vacant
26:01for too
26:02long
26:03I
26:03would
26:03say
26:03personally
26:04yes
26:05you
26:05need
26:06to
26:06be
26:06able
26:06to
26:06nudge
26:06the
26:07property
26:08back
26:08onto
26:08the
26:09market
26:09what's
26:10going
26:10on
26:10here
26:10and
26:10we
26:11already
26:11have
26:11that
26:11possibility
26:12in
26:12the
26:12Netherlands
26:13in
26:13some
26:13places
26:13and
26:14I
26:14think
26:14you
26:15can
26:15think
26:15about
26:15that
26:16but
26:16it's
26:16not
26:16Europe
26:17deciding
26:18that
26:18yeah
26:18it's
26:18the
26:19national
26:19of course
26:20should
26:20the
26:21EU
26:21allow
26:22more
26:22public
26:22spending
26:23and
26:23debt
26:23to
26:24build
26:24social
26:24housing
26:25well
26:26we
26:26have
26:26that
26:27is
26:27what's
26:27being
26:27done
26:27now
26:28in
26:29a
26:29limited
26:29way
26:29so
26:31that's
26:32a
26:32yes
26:32yes
26:33yes
26:33should
26:34home
26:34ownership
26:35be
26:35actively
26:36promoted
26:36or
26:37should
26:37policy
26:37accept
26:38a
26:39long
26:39term
26:39shift
26:40towards
26:40renting
26:41we
26:42need
26:42both
26:43home
26:44ownership
26:44is
26:45the
26:45basis
26:45for
26:46people's
26:47stability
26:48in life
26:48and
26:49yes
26:49it should
26:50be
26:50promoted
26:50good
26:51all right
26:52last question
26:53have you
26:54agreed with
26:55anything you've heard
26:56from your
26:57opponent today
26:59yeah
26:59yeah
27:00yeah
27:01yeah
27:01yeah
27:01the housing
27:01first
27:01in Finland
27:02it's a very
27:03successful
27:04approach
27:05okay
27:05and I agree
27:06that a lot
27:07of the
27:07problems
27:08people are
27:08faced with
27:09cannot be
27:10solved
27:10if
27:10if someone
27:11is on
27:11the streets
27:12and
27:12they need
27:13simply
27:14a roof
27:14over their
27:15heads
27:15okay
27:15I really
27:16like the
27:17fact that
27:17you want
27:17to see
27:18defense
27:18and housing
27:19crisis
27:19on the
27:19same
27:20level
27:20I really
27:21want to
27:21see
27:21this
27:21switch
27:22in a
27:22narrative
27:23in the
27:23whole
27:23European
27:23union
27:24level
27:27well
27:28that brings
27:28this special
27:29summer edition
27:30of the ring
27:30to an end
27:31we'll be back
27:32very soon
27:33but in the
27:33meantime
27:34let us know
27:34what issues
27:35you want us
27:35to debate
27:36here on the
27:37ring
27:37what's keeping
27:38you up
27:38at night
27:39you can write
27:40to us
27:40at the ring
27:40at your
27:41news.com
27:42but for now
27:42thanks so much
27:43for tuning in
27:43take care
27:44and see you
27:45soon
27:45on your
27:45own news
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